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6,746 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:09 am
Near every team with lots to spend and enough teams with a need in CF
Near every team has a new TV contract coming…
Braves need to wait about 25 years, then they might have money from a TV contract. Not that it’d make it better this off-season. It’d just increase the possibility of vastly overpaying for Michael Bourn.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:12 am
Hamilton – four years, $48 million, imo.
You think Josh Hamilton’s floor is $12M a year? Meltdown Bradley had more off-field issues and wasn’t near the player of Hamilton, and he made more than that in his final year of his contract last year.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:13 am
Yeah, they would and have several times.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:14 am
Would the Braves even give out that kind of cash on a long term contract?
Really? Check 2B for your answer.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:14 am
The new MLB TV contract will add over $25 million a year to every team.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:15 am
Of course, that could add serious suitors to almost every FA and boost salaries to even more astronomic proportions.
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:15 am
Michael Pineda (shoulder) is not expected to be ready by the start of spring training next February.
“We have to keep him off our radar for now,” Yankees general manager Brian Cashman told reporters on Sunday. “We’re talking June of next year … the second half of next year.”
Yeah, but, ya know, Hanson should undergo surgery to repair that shoulder……cuz it’ll make it better…… right……
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2012
9:16 am
we will probably just go with pie costanza
Pie Costanza sounds delivious
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
9:16 am
If Bourn and Pagan will be out of our range… maybe Victornio.
Or may I suggest to you another option… Bourjos. Keep up warming to him fellas!
I mean, if Delgado for Jon Jay won’t work….
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2012
9:17 am
Delicious too
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:17 am
You think Josh Hamilton’s floor is $12M a year?
The group of players I listed. Not one of them will get less than that, is what I meant.
Really? Check 2B for your answer.
If they give Angel Pagan four years, and 48 million – they need to get their heads checked.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
9:18 am
There is absolutely no condition which makes Bourn being the first Braves player ever to be given $100M+ contract look good.
Well, I’d go along with that, sure. But Pagan or Upton at relatively little less than that? I can’t see where that floats the boat, either.
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:19 am
I’d go the trade route on all the needs we have. Would not want to give Pagan, Upton or Swisher that money + give up our first round draft pick. Although I don’t think Wren really cares about that.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
9:19 am
The new MLB TV contract will add over $25 million a year to every team.
That helps the big teams as well … would LM be required to hand that money to the Braves?
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:21 am
Nice little five year, $75 million dollar deal for Bossman Junior.
Silly contracts this winter.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
9:22 am
I’d go the trade route on all the needs we have.
I’m not sure there’s enough trade bank to do that.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:27 am
Probably not required, but why do you think they wouldn’t?
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:27 am
I’m not sure there’s enough trade bank to do that.
Depends on the level of the player. I’m not seeing “premium players” on the free agent market other than Hamilton. To me, giving Swisher, Pagan or Upton a big deal is just as bad as giving Bourn a huge deal.
But like I’ve said, could definitely see the Flyin Hawaiian in CF for us next year…….he won’t be getting a four year contract.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:28 am
$12 milllion a year really isn’t a “Big” deal anymore. Premium players make a lot more than that.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:29 am
Got to go along with scoots on this one – not sure they can trade for two or more players and still have a farm system that’s vaguely viable.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
9:29 am
scoots @9:22 – Yeah, we could go that route, for sure….but NO ONE would like the results! (Loaf back in LF, anyone?)
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:30 am
Efrim-
Good morning my friend….
I would be perfectly fine seeing him out there patrolling CF next year…..the one thing that people hated about him playing against ATL they will LOVE him for in playing w/ the Braves….
He loves the spotlight and loves beating the opposition, and the guy plays all out all the time like Prado —- which is something we could certainly use more of.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:30 am
Unless, of course, Gattis proves to be as well thoiught of around MLB as on the blog.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
9:33 am
Lew – Yeah, there is a loud contengency here that constantly berate LM for being unwilling to lose a bunch of money every year with a bloated payroll. Fact is, it seems that they aren’t making any money on the Braves either. I believe the payroll reflects the revenue.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:33 am
I really appreciated the tough ABs from Pagan last night…especially the one against Miller….didn’t get a hit but worked a count more than 90% of the Bourn ABs this past year….
And while he’s still not my favorite, I have started to warm on him a bit more….
That said, I completely and wholeheartedly agree w/ Efrim…..Hammy is the ONLY premium talent out there….the rest have much greater flaws ON the field…but we more than likely aren’t going there
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
9:34 am
I’m not sure there’s enough trade bank to do that.
Agree… and if we trade top prospects for older players under control for 2 or less years, that doesn’t help the farm either. We really only have what, 4-5 prospects that could be traded for a good player, and we want to keep at least 2 of them.
Probably not required, but why do you think they wouldn’t?
Well, they don’t have to keep payroll up or give that money to the team if they didn’t want to… not saying that’s what they’d do. But if Malone wants to collect an easy profit, it’s right there for him, and nothing is stopping him.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:35 am
Lew-
12 may not be big when you consider the sliding scale that is player contracts these days, BUT when you figure the Braves haven’t really altered their payroll to fit this, that 12M would be about 13-15% of the entire payroll….and when you consider you have to fill at least another 24 men to that, its a decent chunk of change
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
9:37 am
But like I’ve said, could definitely see the Flyin Hawaiian in CF for us next year
“It’s like a nightmare, isn’t it? It just keeps getting worse and worse.” – Grady Seasons
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
9:38 am
But I do think LM has been fine for us… sure it’d be nice for them to take a loss every now and then to allow us to get better players, but no owner needs to do that.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:43 am
PTown – Right now you only have Uggla making that much – in 2010 you had Chipper, Lowe and Uggla at that much or more. It hasn’t hamstrung the Braves at all. They still keep winning – maybe not as much as everyone wants – but certainly enough to make them one of the winningest teams in the league every year.
I think it’s been proven time and again in MLB that it isn’t how much money you spend that leads to success and for every $12 million player the Braves have, the large market teams have two or three or more.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
Excuse me – add McCann to that list – he’s made $12 mil or damned close to it for a couple of years.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
9:45 am
A deep pocket individual owner who really wants to win, and will spend the $$$ to do so would be great, although that’s no guarantee, for sure…see 2012 Angels as just one example. Unfortunately, Ted Turner is no longer interested. Few of those types available, in reality. The “big market” teams spend primarily because they have big revenue…and yes, they are also willing to do so. BUT, even George S is dead, and the boys are cutting back.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:46 am
Agree w/ Scoots as well….
I still think we get one player through FA and another through trade and as per usual take off the scrap heap for the bench as to not pay attention to how horrid it was this past year….
That said….taking care of one step at a time would be great, but if we could manage to get someone for the bench WITH the starting player that would be even more helpful
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:47 am
Anmd when a large proportion of your other 24 men – like (to this point, anyway) Kimbrel, Venters, Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Medlen, Minor, etc. are making MLB minimum or not a whole lot more, you can afford to pay a couple players 13-15% of your payroll.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
9:48 am
Of course, the whiners will be criticizing me, for not accepting anything less than a championship every year. My reality is their disgust. So be it. That’s what makes the blog.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:49 am
Which is exactly why the Braves tend to develop their own pitching which is one of the more expensive positions to fill and why they will get at least one of their needs from Free Agency and not through emptying the farm.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
+ give up our first round draft pick
I’d wait to see who is offered a qual. Might be that not all of those listed are offered. At that point, FA signings become more viable.
And, personally, I’m of the frame of mind that anything more than $9M a year for Bourn is over-paying. I do realize, of course, that he will received considerably more than that. I just don’t think it is a wise investment.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
Raleigh-
As DOB said, it would be very rare unless theyre someone who would absolutely have the money to figure out just how to get more people to the park….
No one wants to spend these days and pay for something that would surely put them in the red based on attendance and tv/radio contracts alone….
I mean Ive at least come to realize and others have as well that lets face it, as far as revenue is concerned, the Braves are no more than mediocre to average at best
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
are making MLB minimum or not a whole lot more, you can afford to pay a couple players 13-15% of your payroll.
That’s fine. They just have to be, ya know, “close” to worth that money. Can’t just pay people millions just cause. Or go the free agency route because everyone else is doing it.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
And when a large proportion of your other 24 men…are making MLB minimum or not a whole lot more, you can afford to pay a couple players 13-15% of your payroll.
Even can pay 1 player 20%. Sign him. The only premium player available.
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
9:53 am
I’d wait to see who is offered a qual. Might be that not all of those listed are offered. At that point, FA signings become more viable.
I can’t fathom Upton, Swisher and Pagan not receiving a qualifying offer of one year, 13.3 million. If they don’t, than their interest is going to rise and we may not like the prices then anyway.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:53 am
The one thing I’ve gathered from all this discussion is, there is no agreement among any of us, who the Braves should target and how much he is worth. But the underlying thread to all of this is, every potential player suggested as a target is not a “premium player.” And every contract for that player is a “premium player” contract. And to that, I think we are all correct. The Braves will not get a “premium player” but they will pay the player they get as if he is a “premium player” and that will be the spin… because he is paid like he, he must therefore be one.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
9:54 am
Can’t just pay people millions just cause.
I’d much rather pay Jon Lester, say, $13MM than Angel bleepin’ Pagan. I mean, come on.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:54 am
raleighbraves – I’ve been following baseballk for 55 years and I’ve followed teams that have won 100 games and lost 100 numerous times. I’m only unhappy when I see consistent losing and consistently sloppy play. If a team is competitive and wins more than they lose, I’m pretty content.
Never figured why people get so upset that their team doesn’t win it all every year when it doesn’t happen to anyone anymore (not even the Yankees) as proven by the last eleven years having seen nine different WS winning teams.
Must be a lot of really POed people out there if that’s the case, cause no one always wins it. And with the exception of the Yankees, the Braves have pretty well won more games than anyone else for over twnety years.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:55 am
If they don’t, than their interest is going to rise and we may not like the prices then anyway.
We aren’t going to like the price in prospects and/or money regardless.
It’s the first season in a long time there is cash to spend, but no real difference maker out there within the Braves price range.
CB
October 22nd, 2012
9:55 am
Efrim and scoots, Peter from Capitol Avenue’s new moniker is Jay Dubu. Like I said the other day, makes a seldom seen appearance.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
I’d much rather pay Jon Lester, say, $13MM than Angel bleepin’ Pagan. I mean, come on.
Several moments ago you were posting that $14M a year for Michael bleepin’ Bourn was a reasonable move.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
9:57 am
P-Town – I agree with what you say, to a point, but not about the bench. Even without a move, the internal options include a strong bench, IMO.
Ross (must, and will, re-sign)
Reed Johnson (must, and probably will, re-sign)
Janish
2 among the group of Francisco, the Rev, Gattis, and others who may surprise or prove themselves worthy during ST. Maybe even Constanza will grow into the job.
Bench is not an area I too concerned about.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Several moments ago you were posting that $14M a year for Michael bleepin’ Bourn was a reasonable move.
That’s because Bourn is head and shoulders above Pagan as a player. What’s reasonable for the one is insanity for the other.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Thing is though Lew, whats gonna happen when you give another 4 year large sum contract when you have Medlen, Kimbrel, Heyward, and Freeman headed towards large pay days before then….
At some point if you have that many eggs and not enough baskets something will have to give….
I agree on spending some money, I just start to then question what happens to the future…
In fact, with the scouting and farm clearly going downhill due to various things and the budget staying relatively the same, I’m not sure where the team is headed other than down….
At some point guys will be beyond affordability that are up and they will walk and there will be no one to replace them and because of the lack of funds and the fact that theyre paying less attention to the farm system now, I just don’t like the results…
In fact, the low budget tv deal, the middling attendance that draws little in the way of revenue in comparison to other clubs, and the fact that we have a absentee ownership tells me that frankly, we should be spending as much as any club on our farm system simply because we don’t have the cash flow to compete with the other teams when it comes to keeping or buying players….
And lets be honest….guys like Chipper who stay with the same club, that just doesn’t exist anymore.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
TenPaul – Once you hit a certain evel, I’m not at all certain that there is such a thing as a wise investment. Look at last years’ signiongs – will Pujols be worth the bucks at the end of his deal? Will Fielder? Is Matt Cain worth over $20 mil annually? Is Hamels (and we’re talking by the end of their deals and not just relatively compared to the rest of the pack – ie, if anyone is worth it they are)
Seems to me that to get the player you want to win a WS Title or two, you’re going to have to overpay in total dollars and years to get the piece you think will take you to the promised land.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:00 am
I still think we get one player through FA and another through trade and as per usual take off the scrap heap for the bench as to not pay attention to how horrid it was this past year….
Bench will be fine. No washed up Hinske and Diaz, and no Hack Wilson. Johnson, Rev, and any 1B will be better than those 3. Mejia, Betemit are 2 options backup 1B (and Betemit plays 3rd as well, meaning Juan can be traded). We’re in a good spot there.
Murph
October 22nd, 2012
10:01 am
The Braves will not get a “premium player” but they will pay the player they get as if he is a “premium player” and that will be the spin… because he is paid like he, he must therefore be one.
I agree with this 100%. As much as I’d like the team to actually get a “premium” player, I don’t think we have the trade chips nor the willingness to spend the cash it will take to get it done.
I’m ok with the team not going after a “premium” player. A “pretty good” player in CF and LF should keep the team pretty close to where it is now. If BMac and Uggla have decent seasons we’d actually be ahead of where we ended 2012, at least offensively.
We already have “premium” players at C, 1B, 2B, 3B, and RF. Simmons is “premium” defensively at SS. Ross is about as “premium” of a bench player as you can get. Hudson, Medlen, Beachy, all “premium”. Kimbrel, Venters, EOF, “premium” “premium” “premium”.
I don’t expect a team with a limited budget to field nothing but “premium” players. So long as the new CF and LF aren’t 35 year old has-beens who can’t hit and can’t field at all, we should still be a pretty good team. Probably not as good as Washington, maybe on par with the Phillies, but better than the Mets and Marlins at the very least.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:03 am
That’s because Bourn is head and shoulders above Pagan as a player.
Eh, I don’t think much of Bourn, so I don’t see this. Bourn can defend, but is not the best defensive CF I’ve seen in my life. But Bourn is by no means an offensive player. He’s a below average offensive player. 10% below average…. nearly 20% below Pagan. I’m not a Pagan booster, neither appears to be worthy of a massive contract.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:03 am
Raleigh-
MLB worst bench….
If you’re not concerned, you probably should be
Murph
October 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
TOBF, I’d love a bench with Mejia and Betemit to go with Johnson and The Rev. Add Ross into that bunch, too.
That bench could run and hit circles around 2012’s bench.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
We’re in a good spot there [with the bench].
Hardly. I hope they re-sign Johnson, but he isn’t some big bat off the bench, from either side. They’ll still need guys like Diaz and Hinske, guys who can provide some late thunder from the left and right sides.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:05 am
will Pujols be worth the bucks at the end of his deal?
These are two sided questions. Will the Angels make money off of Pujols for the rest of time? Yes. yes they will. Will Pujols be helping the team win for the rest of time? no. But the business is about making money, and Pujols will make the Angels money.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
10:06 am
Eh, I don’t think much of Bourn, so I don’t see this.
That’s OK. It’s why I mentioned it, so you would know.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:07 am
Seems to me that to get the player you want to win a WS Title or two, you’re going to have to overpay in total dollars and years to get the piece you think will take you to the promised land.
I agree with this. But, the truth is, the Braves wouldn’t now go after the likes you listed. Even this off-season, if available, the Braves would not be going after Fielder, Pujols, Hamels, or Cain. The whole blog is splitting hairs over Josh Willingham, Michael Bourn and Angel Pagan. Those players are no where near the likes of Pujols et al.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
Lew – Yeah, if you follow the fans on this blog, You’ve got to wonder how POed the obsessive fons over every other team that’s not the Braves, must feel every year. The only teams in our “ballpark” may be the Cards, and the Yankees, and the NYY fans all feel entitled to win EVERY year.
As I’ve said many times, if you are unhappy as a Braves fan, try rooting for Pirates, Astros, Cubs, Mets, Royals, Padres, Indians, etc., etc.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
It’s why I mentioned it, so you would know.
Oh, no need for you to mention it. I already know you have a distorted view of the two… ( :
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2012
10:09 am
Gattis once caught someone stealing by sprinting to 2nd base and tagging him out
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:10 am
Hinske and Diaz….
Excuse me while I go to the bathroom and vomit….
Gotta do MUCH better than that if we want to win some games w/ our bench….
And maybe I hit my head or missed a few days…..
Did we sign Wilson Betemit and I didn’t know about it?
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:12 am
Hardly. I hope they re-sign Johnson, but he isn’t some big bat off the bench, from either side.
Hits .300 against both sides! I get your point, but Ross can charge a ball every now and then, if we add Mejia or some other 1B, they’ll likely be a power bat as well. If Juan is retained, that’s another power bat.
But Bourn is by no means an offensive player.
This. And Bourjos is a cheaper version of Bourn. We are meant to have another Bour- in CF. Do it Frank
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:15 am
Gattis too… how could I forget about him for the bench. My apologies sir, Don’t beat me up
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
10:15 am
Yeah, I think more highly of Bourn than Pagan too. I think the rest of baseball does too – so he’ll get paid more.
I’m not a Pagan booster, neither appears to be worthy of a massive contract.
Contract, and the loss of a first round draft choice to a system that could seriously need a couple of Top 40 picks in 2013.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:16 am
P-Town, no we havent side Betemit, but he is rumoured to be available quite cheaply via trade.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:16 am
signed
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
TenPaul – No, they aren’t of the caliber of Fielder or Pujols, Cain and Hamels. But…..we’re not going to pay more than $20 mil annually for whoever we get, either. $12 mil a year is hardly unreasonable for a good player these days and we CAN afford a couple of them.
Murph
October 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
If you guys disliked Bourn’s bat, you’re really going to hate Bourjos.
All the K’s with less OBP.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
Mejia could become a top-tiered prospect, if he could cut down on his strikeouts…lead the International League in SOs, if I’m not mistaken. With his power, just a little plate discipline would go a long way.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
TOBF-
You have to consider though that once Mac is back in there, Ross isn’t PH a whole lot….
You know the Cox/Gonzalez method of not using the 2nd catcher as a PH….
And once again, why are people so ga ga over Bourjos? I understand it if you’re talking about getting a new #8 hitter….but to leadoff and be the spark of the team….meh….can’t steal 2b if you never make it to 1st
DAP
October 22nd, 2012
10:18 am
the bench wasnt good enough in 2012, why would it be good enough in 2013 with no changes?
no, the bench needs to be improved.
Lew
October 22nd, 2012
10:19 am
Bourjos is cheaper than Bourn. A cheaper version of Bourn? In your freaking dreams.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:20 am
Lots of guys are rumored to be available….
Doesn’t mean the guy wants to come back to ATL or that he’d end up here….
Talkin about starters here already is bad enough w/ all of us and our mock lineups….
I certainly wouldn’t get into talking about bench talent thats not already here….
In fact, the team should worry most about letting Reed Johnson get away, you know, given he’s our only PH this season that didn’t hit like he was a corpse.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:21 am
P-Town – “MLB worst bench”, I respectfully disagree, but you can worry about it all you wish.
Murph
October 22nd, 2012
10:22 am
Even with all of Mejia’s K’s he still managed to hit .296 with a .347 OBP… not to mention his 24 HR and 32 2B.
The guy deserves a shot. He even had 10 steals. With that kind of blazing speed, couldn’t they put him in LF?
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
10:27 am
Denard Span is a cheaper version of Michael Bourn. Not as good, though, either.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:27 am
DAP – No changes? Did we re-sign Hinske and Diaz while I wasn’t looking?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2012
10:28 am
Yikes…Braves PH were dead last in average (.158) and OPS (.475)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/seasontype/2/split/87/league/nl/sort/avg/order/true
Murph
October 22nd, 2012
10:28 am
Denard Span is a cheaper version of Michael Bourn. Not as good, though, either.
What’s the cost likely to be for Span? Delgado plus a couple of lesser prospects?
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
Bourjos? JUST STOP IT. NOW.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
They aren’t going to look for guys such as Ernesto Mejia and Juan Francisco to be their primary PH off the bench. They’ll look for guys who are used to the role and have had some success with it.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:30 am
Only way you settle for Bourjos, is if we get a TRUE STUD in LF, and go through every other affordable option in CF.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
10:31 am
Denard Span is a cheaper version of Michael Bourn. Not as good, though, either
Nobody is as good, who is also likely to be available. Might as well get used to that notion and look for other ways to compensate.
CB
October 22nd, 2012
10:31 am
I could Bourjos in CF if Willingham was in RF. How about you,TOBF?
CB
October 22nd, 2012
10:32 am
live*
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
Murph – Makes you wonder why Majia hasn’t gotten a shot already. Because he’s not on the 40 man roster, or do the Braves no something we don’t know?
Efrim
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
What’s the cost likely to be for Span? Delgado plus a couple of lesser prospects?
Delgado + lesser prospects seems like a fair bounty for 2-3 years of control for Span.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
If you guys disliked Bourn’s bat, you’re really going to hate Bourjos.
Hit .271 in 2010… he profiles to be a better hitter. With more consistent ABs, I bet he hits. Compare his stats through age 25 to Bourn thru that age. He’s better.
Bourn hit .225 for a friggin half the season, we did fine. If we can’t get Jay for CF, we don’t need to overpay for another CF, possibly with the loss of a draft pick, when we can get Bourjos for pennies.
DAP
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
scoots They’ll look for guys who are used to the role and have had some success with it.
and can play a decent defensive position too, hopefully. reed johnson fits that mold, so i hope hes back. along with ross, we probably need 2 more infielders.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
Bourn is kinda a rare breed really….
A guy who absolutely impresses defensively, saving more runs than anyone in CF not named Mike Trout….
A guy who steals a helluva lot of bases BUT also gets caught at a good clip….
A guy who has a decent average BUT doesn’t get on at an amazing clip w/ a lower OBP….
A guy who strikes out at an alarmingly high rate for a leadoff hitter….
I would say you could have probably given a fair comparison to Furcal before his injuries slowed him down on bases
The other two guys available we have discussed ad naseum…..Pagan is better offensively in just about every way, but lacking on the defensive end in comparison….although the Giants must think highly enough of him to stick him in CF in that spacious park and keep Blanco in LF….
And Victorino, who also better offensively — albeit his worst offensive year in 2012….and also a GG winner and can really pick it on the defensive end…but a guy who wouldn’t exactly fit well as a leadoff hitter either
If its down to those two, its really about whats more important, offense or defense and frankly, I don’t see a wide gap between the two on either side of the ball
The tipping point for me….Victorino excels as a RHH and Pagan as a LHH…..we are more in need of a solid RH bat
Of course OTOH, the tipping point for some is that Pagan can hit leadoff and do it well….Victorino can not….
So its really up to how you view it and what side of the fence you are on….
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:34 am
I think the rest of baseball does too – so he’ll get paid more.
No doubting this. Of course the rest of baseball thinks he’s great. But there was talk of paying him like he was one of the top 10 players in the Majors… and he isn’t.
If Bean’s initial undervalued skill in the market was OBP, and it exploded in price (ie, bubble)… Defense is the new previously undervalued skill… and it is now in the midst of a bubble.
Herd mentality doesn’t make it right.
P-Town Brave ©
October 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
I’d go after Span and give them just about any of our pitching prospects before I even thought about giving Dipoto a ring on Bourjos….just can’t say I like what I’ve seen, and when the Angels only ever use him to PR or for a defensive replacement, it tells me they don’t exactly have a boatload of confidence in him either
DAP
October 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
ralieghbravesfan No changes? Did we re-sign Hinske and Diaz while I wasn’t looking?
no, we havent signed anybody. there are huge gaping holes on the bench. hinske, ross, and johnson are all free agents. the bench needs to be rebuilt, and it needs to be much better.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
With more consistent ABs, I bet he hits.
Braves aren’t going to go iffy on either of the two OF spots. They’ll want some confidence that their choices will perform to their norms, and that means actually having some norms to inspect.
They may not acquire the past performance that would make all the folks here happy, but they aren’t going to go on a wing and a prayer, either.
TennesseePaul
October 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
Might as well get used to that notion and look for other ways to compensate.
It’s why Pagan kept coming up. Not as good defensively, better offensively and previously thought to be cheaper…. And I’d agree, when speaking in the previously alluded to terms of relative value… Pagan at $13M is head and shoulders better than Bourn at $18M. I, personally, think the two are vastly over valued… which is crazy as there are quite a few FA CF on this market.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
If we get Victorino, Bourjos doesn’t have to hit 8th. Heck, maybe Simmons could lead off. Ah, never mind.
the bench wasnt good enough in 2012, why would it be good enough in 2013 with no changes?
Rev over Hack and Bunter Wilson
Johnson over Diaz
Anyone over Hinske
3 really good changes right there.
Only way you settle for Bourjos, is if we get a TRUE STUD in LF, and go through every other affordable option in CF.
Well, Willingham isn’t really a true stud… he’s 34 and only now broke 30HR, 100 RBI. Never with a playoff team.
I could live Bourjos in CF if Willingham was in RF. How about you,TOBF?
In LF, I assume… umm, what’d we pay to get Willingham?
Delgado + lesser prospects seems like a fair bounty for 2-3 years of control for Span.
Fair if Willingham is included.
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2012
10:38 am
No consensus here, because there are no ideal solutions. I tend to agree with most of what DOB has suggested. I am also confident Wren will put together the best team he can, with the options and resources available, and without TOTALLY mortgaging the future. It will be interesting, at least.