Ron Gant was a second baseman moved to the outfield. Ryan Klesko, the last full-tim LF, was a first baseman coming up, Chipper Jones played left when, in need of some more offense the team opted to acquire another third baseman and displace the one they already had. Prado was an All-Star 2nd baseman, the team had a whole in LF, so they traded for a second baseman.
For the Braves, LF is that blank area in the slide puzzle.
So yes, CF/lead-off player will be thrown a bag of cash. And he’ll immediately be termed a “premium player” because, even though he hasn’t ever played like one on a consistent basis, if ever, he is now suddenly paid like one. LF will be populated by who ever is without a position when the music stops.
Efrim, this team had several $13M+ players at a time in previous years, including this past season. Uggla’s deal doesn’t have that much time on it remaining, so it isn’t going to bottle up everything. By the time the young players start needing that payroll space, his contract will be over. I’m not so much worried about having another big contract. It’s who that contract is going to be given to that worries me.
I’m not so much worried about having another big contract. It’s who that contract is going to be given to that worries me.
And I guess that’s my worry too. With the free agents available, I don’t like the idea of giving any of them a long term deal. I’d rather trade prospects to acquire players. Braves usually do this, so I’m hoping the trend continues.
9th inning:
Burns: “You there, Strawberry. Take a shower I’m pinch hitting for you.”
Strawberry: “But I hit 9 home runs today…”
Burns: “You see, I’m playing the odds. They brought in a lefty pitcher so I’m going to pinch hit with a righty…”
What’s lost in all the Yankees talk is the fact that they won 95 games in a still-tough division. Folks are acting as if they have all these bad contracts and don’t have a shot. I think we forget that these are the Yankees and they can do plenty to make up for what would be bad contracts for other teams.
The Yankees probably need an outfielder that is a little better on both sides of the ball than what they had this season, an infielder that can push A-Rod to the DH spot most games, and maybe a pitcher. Now, I understand it’s not all that easy to acquire quality players out of the blue, even for the Yankees. But it’s not like they have to do much to remain a great team.
Efrim, Chase Headley or Alex Gordon would be a dream come true. But I’m not sure the Braves have enough to trade for one of those guys. You never know.
Sorta hoping they will draft these types of players in 2013…..or at least some friggin “hitters”.
I bet they draft pitchers, pitchers, and more pitchers, with the rationale being that they can either develop them for their own use or trade them away for hitters… even though they refuse to trade pitchers.
But I’m not sure the Braves have enough to trade for one of those guys.
I was really looking forward to this offseason. Now I’m starting to dread it. We’ve got the money, but nobody to spend it on. Trades are out there, but we don’t have the pieces to get them done.
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think the team is going to end up with a couple of 35 year old + players who used to be thought of as “premium” players, but now are just players playing out their premiums.
But it’s not like they have to do much to remain a great team.
Pretty sure that every single position player that is projected to be on the team next year(LF Gardner, CF Granderson, RF, 3B ARod, SS Jeter, 2B Cano, 1B Tex, C) is going to be on the wrong side of 30 years old.
That’s there real problem. They need some position players in the age range of what Heyward, Freeman and Simmons are and they do not have this.
Mason Williams, Gary Sanchez, and Tyler Austin are two years away, so they can probably use stop gaps and still win lots of baseball games till then – but they’ll have to use free agency to fill these needs.
take Pagan over Upton every day of the week and twice at Sunday dinner
Which Upton?
BJ has a career 105 OPS+ and will enter his age 28 season next year. Pagan has a 106 OPS+ and will enter his age 31 season next year. If the contracts were pretty much equal, I’d take BJ.
I was really looking forward to this offseason. Now I’m starting to dread it. We’ve got the money, but nobody to spend it on. Trades are out there, but we don’t have the pieces to get them done.
We don’t have enough pieces to get the “premium players” if they become available through trade, but we can still get some pretty good regulars.
I mean, I guess they can give Angel Pagan four to five years and 10-12 million a year……
Imagine an OF with Myers and Heyward and an infield with Olt, Simmons, and Freeman… young and inexperienced, yes, but just think of the possibilities… and not the negative, everyone hits .230 possibilities. Think of the everyone hits .290 with 25 bombs possibilities (except Simmons, obviously).
I like Pagan Ok, but I would not give him 5/60, though as I’ve said B4 it might take something like that. Bourn,Upton and Pagan are all likely to get more than they are worth
Only 1 person to spend money on this winter, reasonably. But we’re not getting pitching…. maybe save it up for next season. There is no one on the FA market to pay for, and we can’t drain our system dry going after premium players.
Murph: That’d be so awesome if the kids did hit. I’m sure they would, our last 3 rookies did.
Efrim, well, many of their position players this year were on the wrong side of 30 and they won 95 games. The Yankees often get the very best position players that, even when they start to decline, are still great. And if they aren’t, the Yankees often can move on to someone else without batting an eye.
My guess is that they’ll add some quality position players that will cover up the fact that many of their players are aging.
Another big factor, in spite of what he did this postseason, is that Robinson Cano is one of the best players in the game. You can make a reasonable argument that he was more valuable than Miguel Cabrera this season, or in that same class. If you have a player like that, that can go a long way towards making up for deficiencies in other areas.
I view the Yankees as if they are going to win around 95 games every year, like Theo said when he was with the Red Sox.
I agree Shaun, I’m just pointing out that they don’t have any current position players in their 20’s – and that has to be somewhat of a concern. I do believe they will continue to win 90+ games this year and next given the talent they have and the resources they have.
One other thing to note is that they are planning on getting under the $189 million dollar luxury tax mark heading into the 2014 season(of after it, forgot which). So that will also be a factor in terms of their spending.
I’m hoping they will allow the trading of draft picks. I think that’s the next change to the draft, at some point. Not sure if it’s players for picks – but certainly picks for picks.
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
Wouldn’t the strong teams be trading away their picks for lesser team’s better players, though?
If the Yankees could sweeten a deal to get ARod out of town by throwing in their 1st round pick, knowing full well that they can just buy talent later, doesn’t Miami get better down the road?
So given what you said there TP, I guess it would make sense that the Braves would be interested in Willingham, a guy playing LF, who is conceivably nothing more than a DH….
And DOB….tough guys sometimes make for stupid guys…..he should’ve had the surgery LONG ago
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
Yeah, I’d be concerned with it – some of the lower revenue clubs trading away high priced draft slot picks. But it would allow those teams to maximize the value of those picks by trading it.
efrim just pointing out that they don’t have any current position players in their 20’s – and that has to be somewhat of a concern.
also, the way teams operate now, the yankees are unlikely to be able to sign a whole bunch of 27 year old superstars, like shaun is suggesting they can do. aka, having resources to restock. its great to have those resources, but if the best player you can buy are in their early 30s and have already had their best seasons, you might end up with some stinkers.
I know the Yankees and Phillies are wealthy, but we’re talking 50% tax if they are not under that number by 2014. I’d be looking to cut $20 million and get under that number if I were the Yanks.
Hey buddy….how ya doin? Haven’t chatted w/ you in quite some time….
I like the lineup but I just can’t see Bourn coming back to the Braves….in fact, I think I’d place a probability much greater that Shane comes rather than Bourn stay and the probability that we would have both at about 2%
Find me position players that are becoming free agents at age 26 or 27. Just doesn’t happen any longer. Those players(damn near all of them) are signing extensions with their current clubs that gets them to their age 30 year old season – and then hitting the free agent market. So the Yanks can keep going after those players, but shortly after they sign – they’ll be regretting it. Some of those contracts work out. Sabathia, Holliday – but I’m not seeing those types of players hit free agency every year. Don’t this that this offseason and I’m not seeing it next offseason unless folks consider Jacoby Ellsbury to be a “premium player” – and he’s 30 too.
i agree with shaun on swisher. if im wren right now, im not worried about how guys will hit in the playoffs, im just trying to get there. more specifically, im trying to win the division from a nationals team who won 98 games. so, as long as swisher is going to OPS in the mid .800s from both sides of the plate, im good with that.
now, as far as his contract goes…more than 3 year guaranteed and im gone, more than likely.
Hey buddy, I been so busy, don’t know if I’m going or coming lol. Life’s been hectic, but I’m breathing and intact, so I’m blessed.
As for Bourn, honestly, as much as I like him, I wouldn’t be upset if he isn’t re-signed. I am all aboard for Victorino. I REALLY REALLYREALLY hope Wren can get Victorino for CF and either get a 3B while leaving Prado in LF or Prado to 3B and get a LF. Either way, I so want Victorino on this team.
DAP, my point is that the players over or approaching 30 that the Yankees can afford and would want are the players that are going to still be very good even in decline.
No, they aren’t going to go out and acquire a bunch of 27-year-old stars. They are simply going to get enough really good players to contend. If they have, say, 7-8 players who were amazing in their prime and the Yankees are taking the chance they still have plenty left, the Yankees will be okay with 4-5 of them having solid-to-good seasons.
Quantity that is good enough, not quality, is what makes the difference for them. You look at their roster in 2012 and Cano is really the only player that really stands out, that would have been a stud player anywhere he played. But the rest of their team was solid-to-very good.
That’s the thing about being able to overpay for a few studs when they hit free agency. It’s not that they are going to remain studly. It’s that when they start to decline, there is a good chance that you are still going to be left with very solid players throughout your lineup.
The Yankees can afford to sign and acquire the older players that still have value. And the studs that they acquire closer to their primes are so good that they are going to remain very useful as older players.
We are kinda downtrodden today, aren’t we? Too much, too early on the offseason has given us a bellyache.
That’s because we haven’t heard the rumor that “Team A is willing to listen to offers on Player X”. All we have to go on is the list of free agents – and none of which are that great values on multi-year deals for a mid-market payroll team like the Braves.
Efrim…”I feel like we used to see more free agents around the 27-28 age. No longer the case. Rare.”
More teams are signing their young players to multi-year deals to buy out the arbitration years and first few free agency seasons. And I think a lot more guys are going the college route these days, so they’re not getting through the minors until their mid-20’s. I think those two things have contributed to that.
I’m not sure that free agency was ever the place to get players in their primes.
It could be that a lot of the big name free agents, the ones we remember, come up to the big leagues earlier because they are the best players and therefore hit free agency at a younger age.
If Bryce Harper even comes close to being the player everyone thinks he will be, considering he’ll hit free agency at, what, 26, he could get a $250M-$300M contract.
Everybody is just looking at the big names of the FA list and these guys have nothing to prove. I want players that want to show the world they are winners. I want to go after Gary Sizemore in the OF and Placido Polanco for 3rd base.
6,746 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
October 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
Ron Gant was a second baseman moved to the outfield. Ryan Klesko, the last full-tim LF, was a first baseman coming up, Chipper Jones played left when, in need of some more offense the team opted to acquire another third baseman and displace the one they already had. Prado was an All-Star 2nd baseman, the team had a whole in LF, so they traded for a second baseman.
For the Braves, LF is that blank area in the slide puzzle.
So yes, CF/lead-off player will be thrown a bag of cash. And he’ll immediately be termed a “premium player” because, even though he hasn’t ever played like one on a consistent basis, if ever, he is now suddenly paid like one. LF will be populated by who ever is without a position when the music stops.
David O'Brien
October 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
Spoke with someone today familiar with the McCann situation who said the catcher was a “tough guy” to be able to play at all with that torn labrum.
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
Not a thing, except for not being a righty slugger who could hit in the middle of the order. Neither is Gordon.
I’m sure Prado would do that if you asked him to.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
It’s like a low-ceiling All-Star team….
This was DeMacio’s Gwinnett dream team vision for the 2010 draft……….
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
That’s just how I feel today. Probably change my mind tomorrow…Lemke
so if Wren goes out and does all that tonight, tomorrow you might be ripping him for it?
Sounds just like some folks I know here alright ……
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
Like that episode of The Simpsons when the nuclear plant has a softball team and Mr. Burns employs major leaguers.
“Hey Strawberry, hit a homerun!”
“Okay, Skip.” (hits a homerun)
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
I’m sure Prado would do that if you asked him to.
I’m sure he’d try his damnedest. That’s quite a bit different from actually doing it, unfortunately.
TennesseePaul
October 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
Efrim, this team had several $13M+ players at a time in previous years, including this past season. Uggla’s deal doesn’t have that much time on it remaining, so it isn’t going to bottle up everything. By the time the young players start needing that payroll space, his contract will be over. I’m not so much worried about having another big contract. It’s who that contract is going to be given to that worries me.
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
It was a joke. Like if FG told Prado to become a power hitter and he started slugging dingers.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
BJ Upton last three seasons: .242/.317/.436, 110 OPS+.
3 years younger than Pagan.
I really, really hope Wren goes the trade route. And I really, really hope the Padres are stupid enough to put Chase Headley on the block.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:31 pm
c’mon now, we all know that Mac is a fat, lazy muffin eating chicken
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:31 pm
I’m not going to be happy unless the Braves get either Myers or Olt.
So… I’m not going to be happy.
DAP
October 19th, 2012
2:31 pm
lemke’s knuckler It’s time to gamble on a high risk, high reward guy that can be a dynamic force in this lineup.
justin upton. i bet if we are willing to trade andrelton simmons we could get him, no problem.
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:32 pm
Muffins? Mac’s on a diet?
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:32 pm
I’m not so much worried about having another big contract. It’s who that contract is going to be given to that worries me.
And I guess that’s my worry too. With the free agents available, I don’t like the idea of giving any of them a long term deal. I’d rather trade prospects to acquire players. Braves usually do this, so I’m hoping the trend continues.
TennesseePaul
October 19th, 2012
2:34 pm
“Okay, Skip.” (hits a homerun)
Burns: “I told him to do that.”
9th inning:
Burns: “You there, Strawberry. Take a shower I’m pinch hitting for you.”
Strawberry: “But I hit 9 home runs today…”
Burns: “You see, I’m playing the odds. They brought in a lefty pitcher so I’m going to pinch hit with a righty…”
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:34 pm
take Pagan over Upton every day of the week and twice at Sunday dinner
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:34 pm
Muffins? Mac’s on a diet?
I love that you can take a cupcake, skip the frosting, and it magically becomes a wholesome breakfast food.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:34 pm
I’m not going to be happy unless the Braves get either Myers or Olt.
Sorta hoping they will draft these types of players in 2013…..or at least some friggin “hitters”.
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
2:35 pm
It was a joke.
I need to raise my humor antennae back up, LOL.
I think it was a Johnny bleepin’ Damon reference that may have dropped me into the attitude abyss.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:35 pm
Simmons for Upton? I kinda doubt either team would like that trade
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
2:36 pm
What’s lost in all the Yankees talk is the fact that they won 95 games in a still-tough division. Folks are acting as if they have all these bad contracts and don’t have a shot. I think we forget that these are the Yankees and they can do plenty to make up for what would be bad contracts for other teams.
The Yankees probably need an outfielder that is a little better on both sides of the ball than what they had this season, an infielder that can push A-Rod to the DH spot most games, and maybe a pitcher. Now, I understand it’s not all that easy to acquire quality players out of the blue, even for the Yankees. But it’s not like they have to do much to remain a great team.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:36 pm
Wil Myers went 91st overall to the Royals in 2009. Royals went above slot to sign him, and he took the cash. Good for them.
And the Rangers took Olt in the Supplemental 1st round in 2010, IIRC.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
2:37 pm
Efrim, Chase Headley or Alex Gordon would be a dream come true. But I’m not sure the Braves have enough to trade for one of those guys. You never know.
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:37 pm
Sorta hoping they will draft these types of players in 2013…..or at least some friggin “hitters”.
I bet they draft pitchers, pitchers, and more pitchers, with the rationale being that they can either develop them for their own use or trade them away for hitters… even though they refuse to trade pitchers.
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
2:38 pm
take Pagan over Upton every day of the week and twice at Sunday dinner
If Bossman is ever in an accident and needs a blood transfusion, I hope nolie isn’t the only existing donor match.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:39 pm
he better hope he never catches on fire in my vicinity either……
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:40 pm
But I’m not sure the Braves have enough to trade for one of those guys.
I was really looking forward to this offseason. Now I’m starting to dread it. We’ve got the money, but nobody to spend it on. Trades are out there, but we don’t have the pieces to get them done.
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think the team is going to end up with a couple of 35 year old + players who used to be thought of as “premium” players, but now are just players playing out their premiums.
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:40 pm
And pancakes….
“Young man, you can’t have cake for breakfast, you’re going to have fried cake with syrup.”
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:41 pm
Pagan and Willingham and I’m off to war
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:43 pm
But it’s not like they have to do much to remain a great team.
Pretty sure that every single position player that is projected to be on the team next year(LF Gardner, CF Granderson, RF, 3B ARod, SS Jeter, 2B Cano, 1B Tex, C) is going to be on the wrong side of 30 years old.
That’s there real problem. They need some position players in the age range of what Heyward, Freeman and Simmons are and they do not have this.
Mason Williams, Gary Sanchez, and Tyler Austin are two years away, so they can probably use stop gaps and still win lots of baseball games till then – but they’ll have to use free agency to fill these needs.
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:43 pm
Pagan and Willingham and I’m off to war
You said Shaun’s buzzword
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
2:44 pm
Pagan and Willingham and I’m off to war
I guess I could choke down my gag at the former, if they also get the latter. Man can’t have everything, I guess.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
take Pagan over Upton every day of the week and twice at Sunday dinner
Which Upton?
BJ has a career 105 OPS+ and will enter his age 28 season next year. Pagan has a 106 OPS+ and will enter his age 31 season next year. If the contracts were pretty much equal, I’d take BJ.
phil
October 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
Prado and McCann have helped us win how many playoff series now?
Crickets………….
That said, I’m glad Mac’s shoulder is put back together. No wonder the guy couldn’t hit a lick this year.
And why was Wren saying last week he wouldn’t need surgery?
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:46 pm
I was really looking forward to this offseason. Now I’m starting to dread it. We’ve got the money, but nobody to spend it on. Trades are out there, but we don’t have the pieces to get them done.
We don’t have enough pieces to get the “premium players” if they become available through trade, but we can still get some pretty good regulars.
I mean, I guess they can give Angel Pagan four to five years and 10-12 million a year……
I guess…..
jeffrey d
October 19th, 2012
2:46 pm
It’s like the bat signal…
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:47 pm
Imagine an OF with Myers and Heyward and an infield with Olt, Simmons, and Freeman… young and inexperienced, yes, but just think of the possibilities… and not the negative, everyone hits .230 possibilities. Think of the everyone hits .290 with 25 bombs possibilities (except Simmons, obviously).
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:47 pm
If the contracts were pretty much equal, I’d take BJ….Shaun
of course you would
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
Jay for CF, Myers/Gordon if Victorino for CF) would make me so happy. At least get Jay. Please!!!
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
2:49 pm
Nick Swisher has a .850 OPS, 124 OPS+ over the last four seasons as a Yankee.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:49 pm
I like Pagan Ok, but I would not give him 5/60, though as I’ve said B4 it might take something like that. Bourn,Upton and Pagan are all likely to get more than they are worth
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
Can teams use cash in trades for prospects? Can’t Wren offer KC Teheran, Ahmed + $11mil for Myers, then offer Texas Delgado, Spruill + $11mil for Olt?
RC
October 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
Jay for CF, Myers/Gordon if Victorino for CF) would make me so happy. At least get Jay. Please!!!
Call me crazy, but I don’t think a team on the way to their 2nd WS in 2 years is going to be looking to trade away their starting CF.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 19th, 2012
2:51 pm
Only 1 person to spend money on this winter, reasonably. But we’re not getting pitching…. maybe save it up for next season. There is no one on the FA market to pay for, and we can’t drain our system dry going after premium players.
Murph: That’d be so awesome if the kids did hit. I’m sure they would, our last 3 rookies did.
RC
October 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
Can teams use cash in trades for prospects? Can’t Wren offer KC Teheran, Ahmed + $11mil for Myers, then offer Texas Delgado, Spruill + $11mil for Olt?
Commish has to approve more than $1mil being included in any deal. So……no.
phil
October 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
All I want for Christmas is a couple of guys who are in shape….
If they can’t hit or field, so be it!
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
Bourn,Upton and Pagan are all likely to get more than they are worth
Bourn sets the market, you think?
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
RC: You are probably correct. Especially with Beltran being gone after next year, they can just slide Taveras there…
But, I’ll do anything to get Jay here. You want Teheran? You got it! Teheran and Delgado? Okay!
(sarcasm)
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
Selig is gonna approve 11mil for an untested prospect? Whatcha smokin’ today bro? Sounds like some good shjt….
DAP
October 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
efrim I mean, I guess they can give Angel Pagan four to five years and 10-12 million a year……
you really do need to stop. this is turning my stomach.
nolie Pagan and Willingham and I’m off to war
victorino instead of pagan and im with you.
murph , I really do think the team is going to end up with a couple of 35 year old + players who used to be thought of as “premium” players,
this wont be too bad as long as they are short term affordable deals.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:54 pm
I’m kinda scared of Shane and I like that Pagan hit in San Fran
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
Efrim, well, many of their position players this year were on the wrong side of 30 and they won 95 games. The Yankees often get the very best position players that, even when they start to decline, are still great. And if they aren’t, the Yankees often can move on to someone else without batting an eye.
My guess is that they’ll add some quality position players that will cover up the fact that many of their players are aging.
Another big factor, in spite of what he did this postseason, is that Robinson Cano is one of the best players in the game. You can make a reasonable argument that he was more valuable than Miguel Cabrera this season, or in that same class. If you have a player like that, that can go a long way towards making up for deficiencies in other areas.
I view the Yankees as if they are going to win around 95 games every year, like Theo said when he was with the Red Sox.
Murph
October 19th, 2012
2:56 pm
Teams should be able to buy other team’s prospects. Nothing wrong with that. It’s good for the economy.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
next thang you’ll be talking draft and trade like I heard was in “Trouble With the Curve”
phil
October 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
We’d have none left then! Of course, we’re out already anyway….
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:00 pm
I agree Shaun, I’m just pointing out that they don’t have any current position players in their 20’s – and that has to be somewhat of a concern. I do believe they will continue to win 90+ games this year and next given the talent they have and the resources they have.
One other thing to note is that they are planning on getting under the $189 million dollar luxury tax mark heading into the 2014 season(of after it, forgot which). So that will also be a factor in terms of their spending.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:00 pm
I’m hoping they will allow the trading of draft picks. I think that’s the next change to the draft, at some point. Not sure if it’s players for picks – but certainly picks for picks.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
3:01 pm
yeah but that luxury tax thing is just creme, they can jump it any time the need or want to
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:02 pm
Not one of Bourn, Swisher, Pagan or Upton will be getting less than $11-12 million AAV. And I expect all four to get at least four year deals.
nolie
October 19th, 2012
3:03 pm
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:04 pm
yeah but that luxury tax thing is just creme, they can jump it any time the need or want to
Cashman is talking like he wants nothing to do with it – going over the number. Hal has said the same: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-01/steinbrenner-says-yankees-target-189-million-payroll-to-avoid-luxury-tax.html
nolie
October 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
Phils said it to, but push comes to shove it ain’t much of a barrier for a rich team
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
Not one of Bourn, Swisher, Pagan or Upton will be getting less than $11-12 million AAV. And I expect all four to get at least four year deals.
Better never wipe the makeup off that pig. Sooo-EEE!
Shoot, if it comes to that, I’d just as soon overpay Bourn.
Murph
October 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
Wouldn’t the strong teams be trading away their picks for lesser team’s better players, though?
If the Yankees could sweeten a deal to get ARod out of town by throwing in their 1st round pick, knowing full well that they can just buy talent later, doesn’t Miami get better down the road?
BFChris28
October 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
If I were GM and things were possible this way, I’d get…
Victorino for CF
Headley for 3B (trade for him)
Prado for LF
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
So given what you said there TP, I guess it would make sense that the Braves would be interested in Willingham, a guy playing LF, who is conceivably nothing more than a DH….
And DOB….tough guys sometimes make for stupid guys…..he should’ve had the surgery LONG ago
phil
October 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
$189,000,000.00…..
Ah, what we could have paid Derek Lowe to make him pitch well….
Murph
October 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
The luxury tax kicks in at way too high of a payroll. $100mil over what the Braves have to spend? That’s crazy.
The luxury tax should kick in at $125mil.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
I don’t see that in the near future Efrim, not sure I want to either. generally makes the strong even stronger by allowing them to get higher quality draft guys than the would be alloted
Yeah, I’d be concerned with it – some of the lower revenue clubs trading away high priced draft slot picks. But it would allow those teams to maximize the value of those picks by trading it.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
Not one of Bourn, Swisher, Pagan or Upton will be getting less than $11-12 million AAV. And I expect all four to get at least four year deals.
Of those players, I think Upton probably has the best chance to live up to that type of deal, given his age and skills.
BFChris28
October 19th, 2012
3:09 pm
However, I don’t know how possible that would be, so I’d go…
Bourn for CF (re-sign him at an affordable rate)
Victorino for LF
Prado for 3B
That would give you a dynamite top of the order and move Prado to an RBI situation lower in the order.
Bourn CF
Victorino LF
Heyward RF
Freeman 1B
Prado LF
McCann C
Uggla 2B
Simmons SS
BFChris28
October 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
Should be Prado @ 3B lol.
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
And for those advocating for Swisher….
ARods playoff numbers look like those of a Greek God in comparison to Swisher’s….
Swisher’s bat shuts down Aug 31…..thanks but no thanks
At least w/ Victorino or Pagan, I know they aren’t packing it in after the ASG
TennesseePaul
October 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
Man can’t have everything, I guess
( : “Man” hasn’t found a single CF to his liking anywhere, so odds are “Man” will have to choke down something anyway.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:11 pm
Shane Victorino hitting second for a big league team….no thanks.
DAP
October 19th, 2012
3:11 pm
efrim just pointing out that they don’t have any current position players in their 20’s – and that has to be somewhat of a concern.
also, the way teams operate now, the yankees are unlikely to be able to sign a whole bunch of 27 year old superstars, like shaun is suggesting they can do. aka, having resources to restock. its great to have those resources, but if the best player you can buy are in their early 30s and have already had their best seasons, you might end up with some stinkers.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:13 pm
I know the Yankees and Phillies are wealthy, but we’re talking 50% tax if they are not under that number by 2014. I’d be looking to cut $20 million and get under that number if I were the Yanks.
TennesseePaul
October 19th, 2012
3:13 pm
And I’d say your in for quite the choking as this team doesn’t fill LF, so Willingham would be last item on the list…
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2012
3:13 pm
BFC28-
Hey buddy….how ya doin? Haven’t chatted w/ you in quite some time….
I like the lineup but I just can’t see Bourn coming back to the Braves….in fact, I think I’d place a probability much greater that Shane comes rather than Bourn stay and the probability that we would have both at about 2%
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
will have to choke down something anyway.
That’s true. I’m only hoping to minimize the size of the gorge, so that when I do choke it down, it doesn’t spew back up out of my nostrils.
At this point, I’d count that as a CF win.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
Swisher’s bat shuts down Aug 31…..thanks but no thanks
.239/.346/.452 for his career in the regular season in Sept/Oct.
His career postseason numbers aren’t good ( .169/.283/.305) but he’s played a grand total of 46 games and had 181 plate appearances in the postseason.
I would avoid Swisher for contract reasons more so than his play.
DAP
October 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
shaun Shane Victorino hitting second for a big league team….no thanks.
bat him 1st. i dont think a .320 OBP is the new normal for him.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
I guess that’s sort of the point too, DAP.
Find me position players that are becoming free agents at age 26 or 27. Just doesn’t happen any longer. Those players(damn near all of them) are signing extensions with their current clubs that gets them to their age 30 year old season – and then hitting the free agent market. So the Yanks can keep going after those players, but shortly after they sign – they’ll be regretting it. Some of those contracts work out. Sabathia, Holliday – but I’m not seeing those types of players hit free agency every year. Don’t this that this offseason and I’m not seeing it next offseason unless folks consider Jacoby Ellsbury to be a “premium player” – and he’s 30 too.
Murph
October 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
Where’s Ward? I could use a bit of his blind optimism right about now. You guys are depressing me.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:19 pm
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/2014-mlb-free-agents.html
Pretty much every player on that list will be 30+ in 2014.
I feel like we used to see more free agents around the 27-28 age. No longer the case. Rare.
ncscoots
October 19th, 2012
3:20 pm
You guys are depressing me.
We are kinda downtrodden today, aren’t we? Too much, too early on the offseason has given us a bellyache.
DAP
October 19th, 2012
3:21 pm
i agree with shaun on swisher. if im wren right now, im not worried about how guys will hit in the playoffs, im just trying to get there. more specifically, im trying to win the division from a nationals team who won 98 games. so, as long as swisher is going to OPS in the mid .800s from both sides of the plate, im good with that.
now, as far as his contract goes…more than 3 year guaranteed and im gone, more than likely.
BFChris28
October 19th, 2012
3:22 pm
P-Town Brave ©
Hey buddy, I been so busy, don’t know if I’m going or coming lol. Life’s been hectic, but I’m breathing and intact, so I’m blessed.
As for Bourn, honestly, as much as I like him, I wouldn’t be upset if he isn’t re-signed. I am all aboard for Victorino. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope Wren can get Victorino for CF and either get a 3B while leaving Prado in LF or Prado to 3B and get a LF. Either way, I so want Victorino on this team.
Robert
October 19th, 2012
3:26 pm
“The Braves have gotten very good at finding the low risk, moderate reward guys.”
That’s true. And it’s a good thing. But it;s not enough
Finding a good deal on a low-mileage used Buick doesnt win you the Daytona 500
phil
October 19th, 2012
3:26 pm
Wait….
Wishing we could’ve paid Lowe more money wasn’t a happy thing?
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:28 pm
DAP, my point is that the players over or approaching 30 that the Yankees can afford and would want are the players that are going to still be very good even in decline.
No, they aren’t going to go out and acquire a bunch of 27-year-old stars. They are simply going to get enough really good players to contend. If they have, say, 7-8 players who were amazing in their prime and the Yankees are taking the chance they still have plenty left, the Yankees will be okay with 4-5 of them having solid-to-good seasons.
Quantity that is good enough, not quality, is what makes the difference for them. You look at their roster in 2012 and Cano is really the only player that really stands out, that would have been a stud player anywhere he played. But the rest of their team was solid-to-very good.
That’s the thing about being able to overpay for a few studs when they hit free agency. It’s not that they are going to remain studly. It’s that when they start to decline, there is a good chance that you are still going to be left with very solid players throughout your lineup.
The Yankees can afford to sign and acquire the older players that still have value. And the studs that they acquire closer to their primes are so good that they are going to remain very useful as older players.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:30 pm
We are kinda downtrodden today, aren’t we? Too much, too early on the offseason has given us a bellyache.
That’s because we haven’t heard the rumor that “Team A is willing to listen to offers on Player X”. All we have to go on is the list of free agents – and none of which are that great values on multi-year deals for a mid-market payroll team like the Braves.
Efrim
October 19th, 2012
3:33 pm
The Cardinals could be on their way to Back to Back World Series titles and also have the best farm system in the sport. Loaded.
Lemke's Knuckler
October 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
Efrim…”I feel like we used to see more free agents around the 27-28 age. No longer the case. Rare.”
More teams are signing their young players to multi-year deals to buy out the arbitration years and first few free agency seasons. And I think a lot more guys are going the college route these days, so they’re not getting through the minors until their mid-20’s. I think those two things have contributed to that.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:50 pm
I’m not sure that free agency was ever the place to get players in their primes.
It could be that a lot of the big name free agents, the ones we remember, come up to the big leagues earlier because they are the best players and therefore hit free agency at a younger age.
I don’t know though.
Shaun
October 19th, 2012
3:55 pm
If Bryce Harper even comes close to being the player everyone thinks he will be, considering he’ll hit free agency at, what, 26, he could get a $250M-$300M contract.
Homer of A-town sports
October 19th, 2012
3:57 pm
Everybody is just looking at the big names of the FA list and these guys have nothing to prove. I want players that want to show the world they are winners. I want to go after Gary Sizemore in the OF and Placido Polanco for 3rd base.
RC
October 19th, 2012
3:59 pm
I want to go after Gary Sizemore in the OF and Placido Polanco for 3rd base.
Who do you want at team doctor? Because with those types of moves it may be the most important position in the organization.
cricket
October 19th, 2012
4:03 pm
I don’t know though. .. Shaun
mayans were right, it is time…please close your windows as flying pigs may crash in any time..