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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,746 comments Add your comment
beachcomber
October 11th, 2012
9:08 am
DOB – Clear out your desk at the AJC and have Wren do the same downtown. Excellent solutions to our off season needs. What you have done besides filling the gaps is make us less vulnerable to the tough lefties in our division and elsewhere.
We’ll let Fredi figure out the line-up but the Willingham, Pagan, Prado moves seem like the best available options for our boys.
Lemke's Knuckler
October 11th, 2012
9:11 am
My buddy is a Detroit Tiger fan. He had a big weekend, drove 12 hours and took his kid to his first playoff game at Detroit on Saturday, which they won. And he was ragging me all night last Friday about the classless Braves fans and all the errors.
So I say thank you, Jose Valverde, for evening things out a bit.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:13 am
S/O’s To
Mixxo
ChattlantaBrian
Jeff R
Lemke’s Knuckler
“Are you Guys Ready to Slam?”
NM, I’m still Livid about Last Friday!
Mountain Man
October 11th, 2012
9:13 am
DOB–why is there no mention of Constanza? I don’t see the huge down side with giving him a chance for more playing time and spending our money elsewhere…
Carl Farvman
October 11th, 2012
9:14 am
A bunch of folks adding up savings from departing players and throwin dollars around to attract aging stars. I jumped down to the McCann part and was a bit surprised to see “what he’ done for the club….” comment. He was paid already for this. He’s on the downside of a career. The Cards had Molina ready when Matheny was at the stage of wanting more money than he was worth. Most of these guys at this stage are looking for more money than they are worth and they must leave their teams to get it because other suitors will be stupid enough to pay it,while current clubs know all too well that they’re not worth it. Too ba the club is not better positioned to move on from McCann.
Now, why is there little talk about having an effective farm system to provide some of these players?
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:15 am
Both Willingham and Cody Ross have The Ryan Church/Reggie Sanders Syndrone Written all over them….
And those two names alone will sure Put Cheeks In The Seats!
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:16 am
Mountain Man
“DOB–why is there no mention of Constanza? I don’t see the huge down side with giving him a chance for more playing time and spending our money elsewhere…”
Constanza is a 4-A player (One who tears up AAA and hits like #### at the big league level)
He is like Mike Kelly without the Hype, or better yet another Tony Tarasco
clay
October 11th, 2012
9:25 am
DOB should be running the braves. Great stuff man. Uggla is going no where, his salary is too much for someone to take on. It would be another Lowe situation. They should keep Maholm around because Beachy isnt coming back until after the AS break. Once Beachy is back for good he will fill Hudson’s roll, because this is going to be his last year. JJ is gone and Hanson will be gone after the year to which Delgado should fill, Tehran wont be around becuase I believe Wren will trade him during the offseason. Ross is back which is the best back up in the league as far as catchers go. This is what next years starting lineup should look like as far as the pitchers.
Medlen
Hudson
Minor
Maholm
Hanson(this will be his last year)
Now they could move Minor and Hudson because they wouldn’t want to lefties starting back to back.
2014 starting 5:
Medlen
Beachy
Minor
Delgado
Gilmartin
The starting rotation is looking good for these Bravos for years to come. Go Braves
JT Grace
October 11th, 2012
9:28 am
I think the Braves should target Nick Swisher #1. He is a switch hitter who gets on base – thus, a perfect replacement for Chipper. He could hit between Heyward and Freeman. I like Pagan or Victorino for CF. Both hit lefties well and play good CF defense (though not as good as Bourn). If the Braves can’t get one of those two they should target Span from the Twins. While he is LH he does hit LHP quite well.
I like Willingham but there is no way I would give up Teheran or Delgado for him. However, if the Twins included Span then one of those guys could be included in the trade along with lower level minor leaguers.
a fan
October 11th, 2012
9:29 am
What I find really interesting is most of you want to keep Bourn and get rid of Uggla yet they have the identical OBP 348, higher then JHey & Freeman only Prado and Chipper were higher
ncscoots
October 11th, 2012
9:32 am
2014 starting 5: Medlen Beachy Minor Delgado Gilmartin
Minor would have about 85 ML starts, and he would be the most experienced starter. Yowsah.
Barney
October 11th, 2012
9:35 am
Get rid of Uggla. A nice guy. A team guy. But he can’t seem to handle the pressure of being a Brave. Get a reliaable second baseman who can hit for average.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
9:36 am
2014 starting 5:
Medlen
Beachy
Minor
Delgado
Gilmartin
Minor’s the most experienced starter there, with about 85 starts. Beachy and Medlen are in the 60-70 range. Delgado would have approximately 50, and Gilmartin’s a rookie.
Not very impressive. Gonna need a proven #1-2 at the top of that. And the FA Starters next winter aren’t as impressive to me as this season’s class…
PMC
October 11th, 2012
9:36 am
Oh man this is the fun time of the year, when a boy can dream about next year.
MB3G
October 11th, 2012
9:38 am
let bourne go, sign/trade for coco crisp and then go all in on a 4 yr deal with josh hamilton….#wishful thinking
Mountain Man
October 11th, 2012
9:40 am
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
I honestly think we could afford to give him significant playing time out there with Reed filling in some of the time. I think we would lose a little on defense, but not too much and I really think Constanza, if given the chance like Prado and Infante, can show he is more than a AAA or platoon player.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:42 am
JT Grace
“I think the Braves should target Nick Swisher #1. He is a switch hitter who gets on base –”
He’s Too Streaky, We don’t need anymore streak hitters who will K 125+ times
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:43 am
@Mountain Man
What Baffles me about Lil Constanza is that He tears it up in AAA, winning batting titles and all, yet he can’t hit the broadside of a barn in the Majors even with his speed
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:44 am
PMC
“Oh man this is the fun time of the year, when a boy can dream about next year.”
I like Halloween and the Winter Meeting better
Skeezix
October 11th, 2012
9:45 am
Dave: Spelling error–I believe that is dye-contrast MRI that McCann got, not a dye- contract MRI.
Good write up, I agree with most of what you said. At this point I am assuming that we will lose Bourn. My hope for 2013 is a healthy Beachy back and an improved offense.
TennesseePaul
October 11th, 2012
9:45 am
Thanks for the work DOB.
And I’m glad to see this line: “If I’m the Braves, I wouldn’t go anywhere near that. In fact I probably wouldn’t go higher than $12 million per season, given how Bourn’s production fell off.” after earlier this year reading lines suggesting he was absolutely worth $18M over 6 to 7 years for the Braves.
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
9:46 am
I simply don’t get all this “fill Chipper’s leadership void” nonsense. Hall of Famer? Yes. One of the greatest third basemen and switch hitters of all time? Yep. Leader? Not from what I can see. Dave, You’re in the clubhouse so maybe you see a different guy than we see on TV. From an outsider’s perspective, he comes off as arrogant, sometimes hypocritical, and just plain ol’ country dumb.
Skeezix
October 11th, 2012
9:46 am
And if they can find a way to unload Uggla, I would not be disappointed.
a fan
October 11th, 2012
9:48 am
The Only: The A’s pitchers don’t have much experience and the seem to be doing alright.
Lemke's Knuckler
October 11th, 2012
9:48 am
Honestly, I think Heyward and Freeman are going to be absolute monsters next year and that alone will hopefully correct some of the offensive woes from this year.
It’s one of those things where I feel like the Braves have been chasing that “perfect” right-handed bat to put in the cleanup spot for so many years to split up all the lefties. I’d liken it to looking for a wife, you can waste years looking for a perfect fit and all the while you could have started a good life with with a good woman that didn’t necessarily meet ALL of your requirements.
I strongly feel like the Braves should quit worrying about that “perfect” fit and just hit Heyward and Freeman 3 and 4 and get the best available players they can to play center and left. Hit Simmons leadoff if you have to. I don’t care. Just put the best 8 guys out there every night and quit trying to make those 8 guys fit into some perfect formula for a lineup.
Just my opinion on the matter. Maybe Sheffield could come out of retirement to play left field. I bet he can still rake.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
9:48 am
“NM, I’m still Livid about Last Friday!” – Tomahawkin
Same here man…..could it get anymore surreal?
Carroll
October 11th, 2012
9:48 am
As someone who lives in Tampa and watches the Rays regularly, trust me…you do NOT want Upton. He will drive you insane with his lackluster effort, swinging for the fences, and striking out. Imagine a less-talented Andruw Jones, and without the charming smile.
Ted
October 11th, 2012
9:49 am
So you’d refuse to sell low on Hanson – yet be more than willing to sell low on Teheran?!? Crazy.
And you think Hanson has little value despite the packages the A’s received for both Cahill and Gio and the Padres for Latos (all last year) for comparable players (young, skilled SP with 3+ years of team control)? Tommy still struck out 8.3 hitters per 9 and part (not all) of his issues were due to bad luck – which smart teams will know (and hopefully the Braves would know this as well).
Regardless, the team hung on too long with JJ – another Boras client whom they could have traded last year had they not sought a “Grienke-like” package and they need to do the same here. Hanson will be gone as a FA yet has 3 cost-controlled years remaining. He is not without warts – but he still has value to teams willing to bet on his pedigree, past performance and high strikeout rates. Sitting on him instead of going with Delgado offers only downside risk. If Hanson collapses, his value is zilch. And Delgado needs to learn at the majors now – just as Minor did in 2012. This also saves $3MM.
And signing Pagan, who is two years older than Bourn, for 4-5 years at $9-10MM is plain stupid. Bourn on a 5 year deal carries risk because speed players don’t age as well, yet you’re suggesting they make the same time committment to an even older speed player?!? Please. I’m not advocating re-signing Bourn at anything above $4 years, $40MM. If that fails, I’d rather they go with a Reed Johnson/Constanza platoon.
Otherwise, O’Flaherty needs to be traded. $4.5MM for a LH set-up man is a waste of resources on a team with a budget when you have a player like Avilan who may not be as good – but will cost 1/10 the salary. That saves $4MM.
I’d move Prado to 2B and play Francisco at 3B (who is basically a LH Dan Uggla, but who fields better, is younger and costs less). I’d eat Uggla’s entire 2013 salary if it gets them off the hook for 2014 and 2015 and/or brings back anything decent.
I do agree on a 3 year deal for Prado at around $30MM total. I also agree about trying to lock up Heyward through his 1st two years of FA and on exercising the options on McCann, Hudson and Maholm and re-signing Ross.
That would leave a rotation of Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Maholm and Delgado with Beachy coming back mid-year or Teheran if Delgado struggles. The bullpen would have Kimbrel, Venters, Avilan, Durbin, Gearrin, Moylan and Martinez or 1 or 2 guys from the savings from O’Flaherty. Your line-up would be CF, Prado, Heyward, Freeman, LF, McCann, Francisco, Simmons. Ross, Constanza and Pastornicky are the bench and go sign a RH and LH vet, both of whom have a little pop.
As for CF and LF, if the Braves re-sign Bourn, then go sign a Cody Ross-type of plyer. If not, then go after someone like J. Upton and use Teheran, the assets from the Hanson deal and whatever else to get it done. Or go big elsewhere – as long as the guy is RH.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:49 am
MB3G
“let bourne go, sign/trade for coco crisp and then go all in on a 4 yr deal with josh hamilton….#wishful thinking”
Yesterday,They were Asking If The Braves should go After Josh Hamiliton on The Buck and Kincade Show…Most were on the No side of the fence
And that Carpetbagger Kincade spent 15 Minutes Ripping him for his past drug problems….
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
9:49 am
I’m too depressed to post. O’Brien’s choices (and the fact that the FO’s mindset is probably more in tune with them than with mine) make me sad.
Pagan, Victorino, Swisher, Ross, et al. I frankly don’t know that I can still root for a team that includes some combination of that group. I’d have to decide whether my esophagus can withstand all the hurling I’d be doing.
Yeah, the free agency choices aren’t great this year. It’s tough to say how bad it is until we hear the prices on these guys. If Pagan wants to sign for something like three years, 24 million, then I think that’d be a value signing. But I don’t see this as being realistic with so many teams needing outfielders.
I think they will end up staying away from all of the free agents, aside from Victorino. I see that as a strong possibility given his off year causing his price to drop enough. Swisher, Upton are going to cost you money and your first round draft pick.
Team has three 23 year olds, two 29 year olds, and a 33 year old on opening day 2013. I think one more vet and a younger player is what they end up with.
Ebenezer Snerdberg
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
DOB: AGREE WITH YOUR THOUGHTS, BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT FRANK WREN IS IQ CHALLENGED! HE IS QUITE POSSIBLY THE WORST GM IN MLB! HE AND HAVANNA FATS ONLY HAVE A JOB BECAUSE LIBERTY MEDIA COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THIE BRAVES. TO THEM THEY’RE PROBABLY JUST A TAX WRITE OFF!
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
Wow….lots of absurd statements overnight…..
Trade for Figgins and sign Carlos Lee…..can’t believe I even just read that
And btw….glad that most including our esteemed blog writer feels all warm and fuzzy about giving up useful pitching for a 34 year old with back issues to hit in the middle of the order who hasnt proven anything against good competition and only hits against soft tossing pitchers…
Oh…and SURPRISE….the guy has hit .140 in his career at Turner Field (.234 SLG)
Yeah, so 34….way overpriced….puts in much less D than what we had in LF….and will not fit as someone who will strike fear in between Freeman & Heyward….
As someone said, yeah, that will put butts in seats and help us overtake the other NL powers!
Frankly, I’d rather give up Teheran, Delgado, AND Bethancourt for Headley than do that!
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
Prado needs to play third base full time.
Heyward, Kimbrell and Medlen should be locked up long-term now, while they can still be afforded by the Braves.
Whether or not McCann is resigned, Ross is no longer a backup catcher. He needs to start.
Trade Hanson for a few prospects and a bag of peanuts.
Uggla sucks but we’re stuck with him. Avoid overpaying for another Uggla.
Carroll
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
P Rose: a leader doesn’t have to be a *good* leader or even a *good person* (see eg, Adolf Hitler). No doubt Chipper WAS the leader of this team, and the team’s play was a reflection of that…good enough to muddle by, but when the pressure was on, they crapped the bed almost every time.
Carroll
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
P Rose: a leader doesn’t have to be a *good* leader or even a *good person* (see eg, Adolf Hitler). No doubt Chipper WAS the leader of this team, and the team’s play was a reflection of that…good enough to muddle by, but when the pressure was on, they crapped the bed almost every time.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:51 am
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
9:48 am
“NM, I’m still Livid about Last Friday!” – Tomahawkin
“Same here man…..could it get anymore surreal?”
Craziest Game I have ever been to, It was Turn’t Up!…It just sucks that I didn’t get to the lots til 330, so I really didn’t even get Tuned Up for the Melee…but Thank Gawd I didn’t, I was at the Chophouse standing next to 3 Cardinals fans
Bernie
October 11th, 2012
9:52 am
Why you would want to keep McCann i don’t know. His batting average was nothing and it will take too much to resign him. I would release McCann, Jurjeins, Hanson and keep Bourn. I also would sign someone that is a proven hitter in these guys place. For some reason Mr. Wrenn can’t see the offense is bad. Bourn will get on and just stays on base because no one can move him along. Also we need some proven pinch hitters which the Braves don’t seem to have.
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
9:53 am
Thank you Carroll, I forgot to mention that — and it’s the most important point. He couldn’t take the pressure and, as a result, neither could his team. Yes he was a leader. He led his team straight into the dumps every autumn.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
9:54 am
2014 starting 5: Medlen Beachy Minor Delgado Gilmartin
This looks so much better:
Pitcher not in the organization who can be a frontline starter, Medlen, Beachy, Minor, Teheran
Looks great.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
9:55 am
Ebenezer Snerdberg
“DOB: AGREE WITH YOUR THOUGHTS, BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT FRANK WREN IS IQ CHALLENGED! HE IS QUITE POSSIBLY THE WORST GM IN MLB!”
Are you World Serious?
Wren Pulled off a Shrewd Deal acquiring Bourn ( and A #16 Pick I’m Guessing once he sells Out) fo the Overrated/Overhyped Jordan Schafer and other Slop around 15 months ago
Wren gets a A- For what he has done the last 3 years with limited resources
Ebenezer Snerdberg
October 11th, 2012
9:56 am
P ROSE: I THINK IF YOU THREW IN A BAG OF BASELINE CHALK, YOU MIGHT HAVE A DEAL!
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
9:56 am
And I’m glad to see this line: “If I’m the Braves, I wouldn’t go anywhere near that. In fact I probably wouldn’t go higher than $12 million per season, given how Bourn’s production fell off.” after earlier this year reading lines suggesting he was absolutely worth $18M over 6 to 7 years for the Braves.
So glad to see that too. Let’s just make sure the first offer is made within five days after the World Series and is a one year, 13.5 million dollar deal.
Murph
October 11th, 2012
9:56 am
I don’t care if the Braves trade Teheran or Delgado, but I will care if they trade both. Someone is going to have to fill in when Hudson or Hanson break down. Gilmartin? Yikes.
If the Braves do trade the remaining members of the latin trio, it better be for someone like Headley, not for a guy like Willingham who isn’t likely to repeat his 2012 performance.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
9:58 am
“…but Thank Gawd I didn’t, I was at the Chophouse standing next to 3 Cardinals fans” – Tomahawkin
Dayumm…..I can imagine all the chest bumpin’. Yeah, good thing you didn’t get too tuned up.
Chop for Chip
October 11th, 2012
9:59 am
I bet we trade for someone not mentioned in this article
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
9:59 am
Imagine if Wren just goes nuts, decides to empty the farm and trade for both James Shields and Chase Headley.
Probably don’t have enough to even make that happen, but we’d certainly be all ion for 2013 and 2014.
Lew
October 11th, 2012
9:59 am
Constanza? No way – I’m too old to risk having a heart attack because he hit a ball out of the infield.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
10:00 am
Think we can get McLouth back?
*teehee*
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:00 am
Murph-
Well, I think I overstated it BUT my point was, I would not trade EITHER for Willingham….
I mean I would be a lot more fine w/ trading both for Headley than trading either for him….
And once again, Teheran would be first on my trading pecking order than Delgado….at some point actual results have to outweigh potential
Lew
October 11th, 2012
10:00 am
Efrim – Well, IF they did that it would certainnly give you plenty of fodder for griping about how depleted the farm system is and how we had another lousy draft.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:01 am
I really don’t see them trading both Teheran and Delgado. Just don’t see it.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:03 am
LF Prado
3B Headley
RF Heyward
2B Uggla
1B Freeman
C McCann
SS Simmons
CF David O’Brien
Works for me.
Wait, is it that bad in CF?
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 11th, 2012
10:03 am
Chop for Chip
“I bet we trade for someone not mentioned in this article”
Co-Sign! That always happens, It happen when we got Maholm instead of Ryan Dumpster or Matt Garza
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
10:03 am
Imagine if Wren just goes nuts, decides to empty the farm and trade for both James Shields and Chase Headley.
He’d be nuts for sure. And deserve to be fired!
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:04 am
Well, IF they did that it would certainnly give you plenty of fodder for griping about how depleted the farm system is and how we had another lousy draft.
Hey, quit drafting LHP’s that profile in the back of the rotation and top out at 89mph with our only first round picks of the last 5 years and I’m cool with any draft they have.
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:04 am
Efrim-
I think we’d be fine as long as you switch out the water in the sprinklers for coffee and turn them on every other inning
Lew
October 11th, 2012
10:04 am
I don’t see both of them gone OR the Farm System being emptied – at least not with that quite appreciable amout of cash available. Be nice to see the payroll boosted another ten mil or so, though.
monty
October 11th, 2012
10:04 am
“I’m starting to wonder if Delgado is not gonna end up the better pitcher”
What took you so long?
Ray
October 11th, 2012
10:04 am
Anyone wanting chone figgins, my question is why? Seattle will most likely release him, he was that bad. I agree and have said all summer, stay away from Bourn if its going to take 15m+ per year. Not worth it. Good player but not at those numbers. I agree with DOB in regards to McCann. No need to sign an extension until we see what type of season he is having in 13. With the expansion of interleague play, it will give him more time as a DH.
DAP
October 11th, 2012
10:05 am
awesome blog, DOB. its always fun to read your version of arm chair GM, because you are so much closer to the realities of putting a team together than we are. your take on this is always so…realistic. thanks.
vabravesfan I believe Cody Ross played over his head this past season
he is a good player, kills lefties and plays good defense, but i dont think hes a guy you can bat cleanup everyday. vs. lefties, hed be great, but youd have to bring him down in the order vs. righties, more than likely.
efrim Tough to find the downside of bringing in Willingham unless you’re concerned about his age and price in prospects
that would be it. age and injury go together sometimes too. thats why its good his salary is relatively low, because that makes it still a good option,although id would really sting to have to trade delgado and then willingham battle a bad back for the better part of two years.
SavannahStats
October 11th, 2012
10:06 am
Excellent analysis, David! I think you are right on the money. Let’s hope the Braves make those kind of moves to insure being a better playoff team next year.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:06 am
I’m sorta waiting for the “James Shields isn’t that good because his career ERA is 3.89″.
I know it’s coming……
Lew
October 11th, 2012
10:06 am
Maybe they feel they have enough polished college LHers now. Maybe they actually get an extra first round pick for Bourne, too and don’t have to give one up for signing a FA..
Deep Six.......
October 11th, 2012
10:07 am
Deep Six JJ, and Hanson. Trade McFann and FIRE FREDI AND ROGER!
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
10:07 am
“I’m starting to wonder if Delgado is not gonna end up the better pitcher”
May happen. He’s definitely proven that he can pitch at the MLB level. Right now, Teheran couldn’t even master AAA. But Teheran is still considered to be a top prospect, so….
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
10:08 am
Whether trading or signing, Wren should look for good defensive players who slap the ball the other way for singles and are good base runners. Remember that power hitters’ numbers always go down as soon as they put that tomahawk across their chest, because they’ll be playing half their games in pitcher-friendly Turner Field — remember the lackluster performances, while they were here, by J.D. Drew, Mark Teixiera, Troy Glaus, Nate McClouth, Rick Ankiel, etc. We need more Martin Prados and fewer Dan Ugglas.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:09 am
James Shields 2011 and 2012 combined: 66 starts, 477 IP, 403 hits, 167 ER, 51 HR, 123 BB, 448 K’s, 3.15 ERA, 120 ERA+, 14 Complete Games in the league where they play the DH and division vs. the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays offense.
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:09 am
Efrim-
I believe I’ve already said as much…..
Or at least in the sense that I said, he’s not a #1
Richmond Brave
October 11th, 2012
10:09 am
Anyone ever considered converting McCann into a left fielder?
rico carty
October 11th, 2012
10:10 am
I say this every year. The Braves need more competitive players. Think back to the 1990s…guys like Gant, Justice, Nixon, Grissom, McGriff in lineup, pitchers like Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine. All good or great players but they were COMPETITIVE. Too many guys on our teams the last few years just don’t seem to care that much. Uggla. McCann.
One thing I did love about Bourn was his fire. He wanted to win and you could see that. Love Prado’s fire. Ditto Kimbrell, Medlen, and frankly anybody who tries hard. I think the Braves are heading in the right direction and will have a little more enthusiasm, but must stay away from this “great clubhouse guy” way of thinking and get guys who really care about winning and aren’t afraid to show it.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:11 am
Or at least in the sense that I said, he’s not a #1
Strong #2 starter, at worst.
DAP
October 11th, 2012
10:13 am
mountian man why is there no mention of Constanza? I don’t see the huge down side with giving him a chance for more playing time and spending our money elsewhere…
id say use him as a defensive sub for willingham, when its late and we have a lead.
Murph
October 11th, 2012
10:13 am
PT, I agree completely. I’m a huge Delgado fan, and think he’ll develop into one helluva pitcher someday. Can’t tell you how glad I was when the Dempster deal fell through.
That being said, I also like the kids that recently made their way into the system. Graham, Sims, etc. If the confidence is there that they could potentially be knocking on the door in 2014/2015, maybe they go ahead and trade Delgado and Teheran while their value is highest (although Teheran’s value certainly took a hit).
I dunno. I’m really looking forward to this offseason. The Winter Meetings are one of my favorite parts of baseball. Something big will happen in December for the Braves. If it were up to me, I’d do the following:
1. Sign Prado to an extension
2. Pick up all options (Hudson, Maholm, McCann)
3. Trade Hanson for a bullpen arm and position player prospect
4. Sign Pagan
5. Trade for the best LF/3B the team can get.
I’d wait until next offseason to buy out the arbitration years of Heyward and Freeman. The team will know what’s happening with BMac, they’ll know if Hudson has any more years left in him, etc. I don’t see a reason to rush into big contracts until some more questions are answered.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:13 am
Maybe they feel they have enough polished college LHers now. Maybe they actually get an extra first round pick for Bourne, too and don’t have to give one up for signing a FA..
I think they do. Seemed so after their 2012 draft with Luke Sims and the opposite of a polished LHP in Alex Wood.
Two Top 40 draft picks in 2013, despite it being a down draft, will make the sting of trading away prospects this winter hurt less for me.
Lemke's Knuckler
October 11th, 2012
10:13 am
P-Town Brave…”Teheran would be first on my trading pecking order than Delgado….at some point actual results have to outweigh potential”
Yes, but you say that as if Delgado’s results have been all that good. But I actually disagree with your thought on the pecking order. I think with the depth of the current pitching staff, you absolutely keep potential. Teheran has Pedro Martinez stuff and if he ever figures it out how to use it, he’s going to be unhittable. Delgado has excellent stuff, but based on what I’ve seen, I’m not sure he has the IQ to be as good as that talented right arm should allow him to be. I could see from day 1 that Minor would eventually figure it out and take that big leap forward. I honestly don’t see that with Delgado. Just a gut instinct and I could be wrong. Not saying Teheran will be a better pitcher, just saying I would stay with his potential upside over Delgado.
Bottom line, the Phillies are not going to lose 80 games again next year, so if you guys want to win the division in 2013 the Braves are going to have to acquire “impact” players and to do that they will need to trade one of those young pitchers. We’re not going to get those players dangling Hanson out there.
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
10:14 am
Agree, Rico Carty. They just got more enthusiastic and competitive with the retirement of Donnie Downer.
Dadgum....
October 11th, 2012
10:14 am
Barney
October 11th, 2012
9:35 am
Get rid of Uggla. A nice guy. A team guy. But he can’t seem to handle the pressure of being a Brave. Get a reliaable second baseman who can hit for average.
You mean someone like Prado? While I agree with DOB on most of his assertions, Prado for me should never have left 2nd base. Wren has suggested that Prado probably leaves LF unless in an emergency to move back to the infield. My eye test indicates Prado is better at 2nd than 3rd. Prado does hit homers and leads the league in multi-hit games by the way.
I think there are going to be some eye-popping moves this off-season. It won’t shock me in the least to see Uggla traded. Guarantee to you he will be dangled about. It’s no great stretch to imagine David Wright at 3rd and Prado back at 2nd.
As far as Hanson goes, Hell no! For me there is nowhere to pitch him. Again that is assuming Maholm is retained. Maybe Delgado or Teheran is traded for a power LF or 3rd baseman and we need Hanson. Right now we don’t. I don’t think anyone feels Hanson is part of the rotation right now. I can’t even envision him in a Braves uni right now.
Braves’ insurance picks up McCann on a yearly basis not season basis thus since the injury occurred on the job he is insured. Picking up his option I think is a given. I also think it is a given he will be gone in 2014 unless he gives Atlanta a huge home team discount. Then that begs the question what about CB ascending to Atlanta? Do you tie up McCann to a realistic contract at 3-5 years and trade CB who is much better than McCann at defense etc? I can’t see McCann leaving millions on the table in his big contract year to stay in Atlanta. As a catcher he may never have a chance to leverage a big contract again. So, as much as he is liked and revered by his teammates and fans, I think he follows the dollars. No way he is worth more than his option year amount of 12 mil. He will get more than that over multiple years but no way the Braves should be players in that game. Ross and CB will be fine in 2014.
Rock on……had to laugh at a prior post indicating bringing Valentine in as manager. That would be ideal assuming you want the Braves’ players turning into cannibals.
Venice Jim
October 11th, 2012
10:14 am
I’m glad cab is still sleeping…
Jeff R
October 11th, 2012
10:15 am
Pagan, Victorino, Swisher, Ross, et al. I frankly don’t know that I can still root for a team that includes some combination of that group. I’d have to decide whether my esophagus can withstand all the hurling I’d be doing.
This is too funny, scoots!
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:16 am
James Shields averaged 7.1 IP in the AL East the last two seasons while posting a 3.15 ERA, 2.3 BB/9 and 8.5 K/9. 14 complete games.
Tough for me to even just call him a #2 starter with those stats.
DAP
October 11th, 2012
10:16 am
by the way, im still deep down hoping for some outside shot that the braves can land a player like justin upton, chase headley or david wright in a trade. if they could find a way to land any of these players, look out National League.
P Rose
October 11th, 2012
10:17 am
Victorino is a jerk. I hate him. But I might be able to like him if he is our jerk.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
10:17 am
This is too funny, scoots!
They aren’t the “sexy” choices this winter, that’s for sure. And the Braves don’t usually opt for free agency.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
10:17 am
Shields and Greinke have some career stats that are quite similar. And, over their final 8 starts this season, they were roughly equal. Greinke had the slightly better ERA (2.04 vs. 2.09) while Shields had a slighly better oppo. stat line.
Both are great pitchers in my opinion, low #1s, or strong #2s. I’d rather sign a pitcher from FA than trade all those prospects,
Jeff R
October 11th, 2012
10:17 am
Gentlemen, I just don’t believe Wren is adding a front line starting pitcher.
Shaun
October 11th, 2012
10:18 am
Pagan will be cheaper than Bourn or Tampa Bay free agent B.J. Upton, who had 28 homers and 31 steals, but hit .246 with a .298 OBP. Upton has a .758 career OPS to Pagan’s .757, and Upton struck out more than 160 times each of the past three seasons.
Not saying B.J. Upton is the right move for the Braves, by any means (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t; a lot of that depends on cost). But Upton is younger than Pagan and Tampa’s park is a pitcher-friendly park. The two have had about the same offensive production for their careers, once you take ballparks and leagues in to account (Upton’s OPS+ for instance is 105 to Pagan’s 106). This is important information. Essentially the same production but one player is younger, I’ll go with the younger player, in a vacuum. But again, let me stress, that doesn’t mean that I think Upton is right for the Braves or other teams. Teams acquire contracts too, not just players.
Lew
October 11th, 2012
10:19 am
McCann in LF? Yeah, he’s extremely fast and has a rifle arm.
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:21 am
LK-
You sure thats what you want to go with?
Delgado got into a bases loaded jam in late innings against the NL East champs because of poor defense and managed to get out of bases loaded and nobody out only giving up 1 run….and that I believe was his last start before being demoted….
In fact, he outpitched both Minor AND Hanson 2/3 of the season, but had one of the worst run supports in ALL of MLB….
And I’m sorry, but I’ve been hearing the Teheran – Pedro comparison for 3 years now….at some point, maybe he’s Ramon and not Pedro….
Also, when did I ever say they’d get much of anything for trading Hanson?! — I didn’t….I think its pretty apparent that most of what we’d get out of trading Tommy would be the salary relief and the opening of a rotation slot….and that I am ok with even if all we got was a bucket of balls and the local favorite sandwich…
Also FWIW, I like Sims and Graham alot, but like others, am not really impressed w/ Gilmartin and think theyd be ok w/ dangling him as well.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
10:21 am
Gentlemen, I just don’t believe Wren is adding a front line starting pitcher.
Bad decision.
ncscoots
October 11th, 2012
10:21 am
Anyone ever considered converting McCann into a left fielder?
You’d sooner see Fox News endorse a Democrat.
Fairbrave
October 11th, 2012
10:21 am
We don’t need pitching!! For the last five years or so we keep talking about who is going to play left field. Let’s get a top notch left fielder and put Prado on third. I have heard Ellsbury from Boston could be traded for pitching.
DAP
October 11th, 2012
10:22 am
scoots Pagan, Victorino, Swisher, Ross, et al. I frankly don’t know that I can still root for a team that includes some combination of that group
why do you like willingham so much, but are repulsed by that group?
ncscoots
October 11th, 2012
10:23 am
They aren’t the “sexy” choices this winter, that’s for sure.
More like the butter-face choices.
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:24 am
Shaun-
I dunno…mixed feelings on Upton as most probably have….
Frankly, I watched him carry Tampa down the stretch this year and he was probably reason 1 offensively they got as close as they did….
That said, his swing is SO long and doesn’t bode well for correcting flaws and as he ages….
Plus the K rate really bothers me….as I have stated w/ adding anyone…..I just feel like this team needs more Prado types to succeed.
Shaun
October 11th, 2012
10:24 am
I just saw the suggesting that someone offered: Braves trade Uggla for Chone Figgins. LOL!
Lew
October 11th, 2012
10:24 am
Greinke never played half his games at The Trop, Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park and the rest of the AL East ballparks.
P-Town Brave ©
October 11th, 2012
10:24 am
DAP-
Thats what I’m trying to figure out….
Lemke's Knuckler
October 11th, 2012
10:24 am
Shaun…”Not saying B.J. Upton is the right move for the Braves, by any means (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t; a lot of that depends on cost). But Upton is younger than Pagan and Tampa’s park is a pitcher-friendly park. The two have had about the same offensive production for their careers, once you take ballparks and leagues in to account (Upton’s OPS+ for instance is 105 to Pagan’s 106). This is important information. Essentially the same production but one player is younger, I’ll go with the younger player, in a vacuum. But again, let me stress, that doesn’t mean that I think Upton is right for the Braves or other teams. Teams acquire contracts too, not just players.”
In a vacuum everyone would hit homeruns, and there would be no breaking balls or sinkers. And the fans wouldn’t be able to drink beer through their oxygen helmets.
Sounds terrible to me, just like the idea of signing BJ Upton, or any Upton for that matter.
Murph
October 11th, 2012
10:25 am
I could see from day 1 that Minor would eventually figure it out and take that big leap forward. I honestly don’t see that with Delgado.
How quickly people forget 2011, when Delgado was just about the only SP on the staff who didn’t completely fold under the playoff race pressure.
Mike Minor definitely figured it out during the second half, and I’m super happy for him, but I’m not sure what indications he gave before that time that he would get on track. Next time the lottery gets big I’m gonna let you pick my numbers, ’cause I certainly didn’t see Minor turning into the pitcher he did in September. The guy was about as inconsistent as a SP could be, and don’t forget that his ERA was over 6.00 at the end of June, almost 5.00 at the end of August.
ncscoots
October 11th, 2012
10:26 am
why do you like willingham so much, but are repulsed by that group?
DAP, could I wait until we see if the team actually procures one of those guys? I don’t want to offend all their mamas for no reason.