Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,746 comments Add your comment
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
2:06 pm
“Have you seen the Orioles?”
Impact bat: Nate McLouth
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:06 pm
Isn’t this a bit like introducing anti-matter to matter causing it all to blow up.
Tumbledown is very quickly getting to think as an experienced regular re Shaun arguments, LOL.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:08 pm
I see the Braves extended Wren. No surprise there
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:08 pm
Impact bat: Nate McLouth
Listen, get a legit RH thumper in LF, and I’d live with Nate in CF.
Gone Viral
October 12th, 2012
2:08 pm
What I’ve learned in watching the Braves over the years is that we can never rule anything out.
We did finish second for ARod’s services back in the day. And if the Yankees lose this afternoon, I can easily envision him being traded before next season. He still has five years left so the Yankees would have to pick up half the money for anybody to consider it. Stranger things have happened.
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
I think the Orioles’ comined OF OPS is 2
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
Tumbledown, randomness is a huge factor in a team winning one game, 3 of 5 or 4 of 7. It’s not the only factor. The sample is so small that things outside of a team’s baseball skills and things that players don’t have all that much control over greatly influence the outcome.
Over the course of 162 games, usually (but not always) the teams that are the most skilled at playing baseball will win. A good defensive player losses the ball in the lights, a team has 162 games to overcome it. An umpire makes a bad call, a team has 162 to overcome it. And usually the best teams overcome those things over the course of a season. In one game or 5 games or 7 games, teams don’t have that luxury.
Now there are certain things that teams could do to take randomness out of the equation. Pitchers that just blow batters away don’t give a batted ball a chance to sneak past an infielder or take a bad hop or have the umpire make a bad call at first or on an infield outfield fly.
It’s not all randomness. But randomness plays a big role over a span of a few games or in just one game.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:10 pm
I think its pretty unlikely that ARod will go anywhere
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:12 pm
He still has five years left so the Yankees would have to pick up half the money for anybody to consider it. Stranger things have happened.
Wonder how that would impact all the goody clauses in that contract? The milestones surely wouldn’t have the same (supposed) economic impact for a team other than the Yankees, would they? I’m not sure I’d want to be stuck with those, however unreachable they may seem.
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
2:12 pm
Ok. Pagan or Victorino for $7-8 million. RH LF for $14-15 million. Done.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:13 pm
Pagan or Victorino for $7-8 million. Willingham for 7 million, and a much better bench….
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:14 pm
Trade for ARod to play third…..
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:14 pm
Ok. Pagan or Victorino for $7-8 million. RH LF for $14-15 million. Done.
Couldn’t you go the other way? Big money for Bourn and $7MM for Willingham?
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
2:15 pm
Gone Viral, if the Braves could get A-Rod for next to nothing, I’d be okay with that. But I don’t think he’s worth the distraction at this point in his career. By the way, I’m not saying A-Rod is a bad clubhouse guy or anything like that. I’m saying that he’s such a big name that if he does change teams, he would bring a lot of attention. And at his age, as seemingly worn down as he is at this point in his career, the Braves would probably figure it’s not worth it. The Braves could find players who are just as good for a much lower cost, at this point in his career, without tons of media being all up in their clubhouse every day.
Gone Viral
October 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
“And at his age, as seemingly worn down as he is at this point in his career, the Braves would probably figure it’s not worth it.”
I largely agree with this. ESPN wants everyone to know that he’s 2-16 with 9 strikeouts in the series. And he’s only gone over 125 games once in the past four seasons. His body does seem to be breaking down. If I’m the Yankees, I think there is more value in paying 2/3 of his salary for him to play elsewhere next year than for my team. The question becomes how many teams still believe he’s worth $7.5 million a year for that other 33%.
tiger297
October 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
scoots – how about $7M for pagan $7M for willingham and the rest for me…I’d take a few losing seasons for $8M in the bank (heck I’d commit to making 100% of the home games next 3 years)
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
I think its pretty unlikely that ARod will go anywhere
Ahh, don’t be such a pooper. Let’s send the guy somewhere. Not even Halloween yet, I think we can throw up some out-of-the-box stuff in here, without being fatally contaminated before the Winter Meetings.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
Listen, get a legit RH thumper in LF, and I’d live with Nate in CF.
You’d be ok with the worst CF to blow through Atlanta in decades coming back… but you have something against Pagan?
Does not compute.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
and the rest for me…I’d take a few losing seasons for $8M in the bank
You are obviously not a “real” fan, LOL. Losing, for mere money? Piffle and balderdash.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
WE WANT OLT!
WE WANT OLT!
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
McNate for Center!! Do it now!!!
Tumbledown
October 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
Shaun – Pitchers that just blow batters away don’t give a batted ball a chance to sneak past an infielder or take a bad hop or have the umpire make a bad call at first or on an infield outfield fly.
But now, aren’t you essentially advocating the same thing as P-Town and others? The Braves need low-strike out guys in the lineup which, in turn, will create some more chaos in favor of the Braves.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
Bring back Mattie D for Left!!!
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
McNate for Center!! Do it now!!!
Just make sure to stretch his hammys and check for a sports hernia before grabbing for some ink.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
2:30 pm
WE WANT OLT!
WE WANT OLT!
But on the Real Tip, I think that The Terd (Terdoslavich), is gonna get a good look in S. Training
AZBravoFan
October 12th, 2012
2:33 pm
We probably have the money to get Pagan AND Victorino. Put one in LF. Prado a 3B. You add 2 switch hitters which gives you all sorts of flexibility with the lineup. And you get much faster. J-Hey and Freeman would drive in all kinds of runs with those two hitting in front of them.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
Murph, condescending is thinking your assumptions are correct without looking at any sort of information.
You need to hit up dictionary dot com and double check that definition.
Regarding McLouth’s hamstring, it obviously wasn’t bad enough to keep him out of the lineup… where he played CF… and had to run flat out all the time. So… what’s your next excuse for his poor hitting prior to the Heyward collision? Eye issue? Home sick? That bleached hair of his?
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
I doubt they make the same mistake of jumping Joey over a level like they did last season
Rick C
October 12th, 2012
2:36 pm
AZBravoFan, switch hitters are nice, but they don’t need two guys to fit that speedster roll, only one. I would rather have a guy for LF or 3B with more power who will drive in runs.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:36 pm
But now, aren’t you essentially advocating the same thing as P-Town and others? The Braves need low-strike out guys in the lineup which, in turn, will create some more chaos in favor of the Braves.
Contact does not equal chaos. Weak contact is as bad, or worse, than a strikeout. For the most part, outs is outs.
In fact, one of the long-time blog mantras is that the team needs to “be more patient”, “take more pitches”, and so forth. Yet, more pitches per plate appearance tends to lead to more strikeouts, in addition to more walks (which I think is the goal of patience-preachers) and a higher ratio of pitches per plate appearance does not actually lead to a greater incidence of favorable hitters’ counts. But, you’ll always find mostly the same folks yelling for more patience and fewer strikeouts, never realizing that the former inevitably will fail to eliver the latter.
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
2:37 pm
Tumbledown, it’s not quite the same for hitters as for pitchers, for lots of reasons. Hitters who make a lot of contact usually make a lot of weak contact and make lots of outs. Pitchers who get strikeouts not only get outs on strikeouts but also have a tendency to get weak contact because they have the skills to miss bats altogether and to miss the sweet part of the bat. A hitter could go 1 for 4 with 3 strikeouts and the 1 hit could be a homerun. We would view that as striking out a lot but that hitter contributed a great deal.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
he did not have near the range though, and he only hit poorly the beginning of the second season b4 the accident. No reason to think that if he had stayed healthy he would not have bounced back to what he hit for us the first season. You problem is that as soon as a guy has a bad spell you are determined that he is done, totally ignoring regression to the mean in . That may be true at times but it is not usually true, players do come back.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
Hater!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Murph
October 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
That may be true at times but it is not usually true, players do come back.
Sure. I know that. However, I gotta say, most of the time when I focus in on a guy who has “gone bad”, it’s because he’s really gone bad. Expired. Past his shelf life.
Proctor. Hinske. Livan. Etc.
I admitted in May that Diaz wasn’t as bad as I was proclaiming him to be, and he rewarded me with an average that dipped down to .220 something and a season-ending injury.
I won’t do that again.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
I won’t do that again.
God forbid that you jinx another guy.
Lew
October 12th, 2012
2:44 pm
Maybe Nate was seriously injured – maybe not. One thing is certain and it alone would keep him out of CF in my opinion – he has a terrible arm and no healed hamstring injury is going to make THAT better.
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
2:46 pm
Murph, I wasn’t defining “condescending.” I was saying that assuming your assumptions are correct without considering that they may not be and without looking at all the information is condescending and arrogant. Perhaps arrogant is a better term for it.
As far as McLouth being in the lineup so he couldn’t have been injured or have any lingering mechanical affects because of an injury, players play through injury all the time. How many players are worse than they used to be when they try to play in their late 30’s or in to their 40s’. Do you think wear and tear on their bodies have nothing to do with that? Or, like you, should we all just assume that if they are in the lineup, their bodies are just as less worn down as when they were 25? Apparently the latter, according to your logic.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:46 pm
God forbid that you jinx another guy.
Yes, I agree. Murph should just never, ever change his mind on whether a player has gone south. These guys have families to feed, after all.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:46 pm
Matt hit .269 .329 .410 .740 against lefties. which is what he was here for, can’t help it if Fredi was dumb enuff to bat him against righties too much
Murph
October 12th, 2012
2:47 pm
In 2009, when McLouth went down due to this horrible hamstring injury that then plagued him for the rest of his days in Atlanta, he actually raised his BA by 16 points following his return from the DL. Of course it promptly fell another 18 points by the end of the season, but still… hard to say it was bad habits picked up while injured that caused that seeing as how his average went up after returning.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:47 pm
the arm was tied to the hernia. the year we got him he had 9 or 10 kills between Pa and Ga, he was not a noodle arm in Pitt
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:49 pm
Truthfully, defending and touting Nate isn’t as much fun as it used to be. I can’t feel righteous about a guy who isn’t even on the team, anymore.
Sign him up, though, and I’ll take another crack at it.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:52 pm
it was prolly a bunch of things, injuries,bad mechanics to try and still play, and likely loss of confidence too.
Shucks he might fall off a cliff again next season, but I think he can be a decent platoon player if not a starter all the time.
Hope so anyway cause he hustled, was very well liked by teammates and took his AAA assignment like a man.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
Pagan? Willingham? How soon can I order tickets? Tickets sales will shoot up with those 2 new names after losing Chipper and Bourn.
Pagan
Prado
Heyward
Willingham
Freeman
Uggla
McCann
Simmons
This line-up is not gonna get you anywhere close to making a strong run in the playoffs. In fact, this line-up doesn’t even make the playoffs. Much weaker than this years. And defense? Oh man how bad would the defense be out there in LF.
Lew
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
Whatever. I think the Good ship McNate has sailed away from Atlanta for good.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
and no, I’m not seriously suggesting that we sign him
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
BillShanks @BillShanks
So with the A-Rod benching I ask… if NYY paid half of his remaining $114 million left for the next 5 years, should ATL take him for 3B?
God no.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
2:56 pm
How many players are worse than they used to be when they try to play in their late 30’s or in to their 40s’.
Irrelevant to the conversation as Nate 27-29 during his days in Atlanta.
Or, like you, should we all just assume that if they are in the lineup, their bodies are just as less worn down as when they were 25?
I never said that. And again, age is irrelevant to the conversation as McLouth was in his prime baseball years at the time.
According to my logic, which you twisted and turned in an attempt to make the conversation about something else entirely, Nate was in the lineup and was thus capable of playing. Using a hamstring that was “sore” by all accounts as an excuse for him hitting .170-something with an OBP below .300 is just that… an excuse.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
Oh man how bad would the defense be out there in LF.
You know that LF is the least important defensive spot on the field, correct?
RC
October 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
This line-up is not gonna get you anywhere close to making a strong run in the playoffs. In fact, this line-up doesn’t even make the playoffs.
Let it be known, that NATE MCLOUTH is currently batting LEADOFF for a team that has taken the YANKEES to a full series in the playoffs.
Nobody can EVER say that any other lineup “can’t make the playoffs” while the above statement is a fact of the world we live in.
Rick C
October 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
BravePack(FreeFan), have you looked at Pagan’s stats this season? He and Bourn were actually very similar, and he actually outperformed Bourn in several areas.
Pagan 288/338/440 with 174 H, 38 2B, 15 3B, 8 HR, 56 RBI, 48 BB, 97 SO, 29 SB, 7 CS
Bourn 274/348/391 with 171 H, 26 2B, 10 3B, 9 HR, 57 RBI, 70 BB, 155 SO, 42 CB, 13 CS
RC
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
You know that LF is the least important defensive spot on the field, correct?
I thought it was 1b? Although they are certainly right there together.
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
Lew, also Nate was never a great player or great centerfielder, even when he was at his best.
The point I’m trying to make with Murph is that McLouth didn’t all of the sudden start stinking just because he came to Atlanta. There are valid reasons that decent players all of the sudden stink. In some ways perhaps McLouth deserves a break from certain Braves fans because it’s almost as if they assume he came here and wanted to be less of a player.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
Did Nate’s hamstring flare back up this season? I’m going to assume so seeing as how he was hitting .140/.210/.175/.385 when he got dropped by the Pirates earlier this season.
Keep in mind that he’s only really been hitting since mid-September. His numbers are only as high as they are because he managed to pick up 10+ hits in a week… amazing what that will do to your slash line when you’ve only had 250 AB’s.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
the one thing that Pagan did not out perform Boun in was OBP which is one of the most important for a leadoff hitter, but I can live with Pagan if he is reasonable
Tumbledown
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
ncscoots and Shaun – i understand and appreciate the points being made. I am sensing a belief from all sides that there are definable skills between particular hitters and pitchers. As we start enlarging these definable skills and identify which players have them or lack them, it seems to me that we decrease the role of randomness across the board whether in a 162-game season or in a one-game playoff.
Bottom-line – Give me a beer!
AZBravoFan
October 12th, 2012
3:06 pm
Rick C:
I’d love to have that power hitting outfielder as well. But not another free swinger who’s going to add to the team’s strikeout total. Yep, I’m one of those who hates strikeouts too. Both Pagan and Victorino strikeout about half as much as Bourn, and have a little more power too. I’d sacrifice the home runs for having those guys on base all the time. Hell, the chaos they create might even get Uggla going
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
The point I’m trying to make with Murph is that McLouth didn’t all of the sudden start stinking just because he came to Atlanta.
He did all of a sudden start stinking. I never said it was because he came to Atlanta, though. He could have started stinking anywhere… like upon his return to Pittsburgh.
RC
October 12th, 2012
3:08 pm
BillShanks @BillShanks
So with the A-Rod benching I ask… if NYY paid half of his remaining $114 million left for the next 5 years, should ATL take him for 3B?
He’s put up slightly worse numbers than Chipper over the past couple of seasons, but in a more difficult league. If the question was for the next 2-3 years at whatever that AAV would be, I’d say the Braves should at least consider it. But for 5 years I think I’m with those that say no way.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
Yes, I agree. Murph should just never, ever change his mind on whether a player has gone south. These guys have families to feed, after all.
I don’t know enough about the roster to pick my target for 2013. As it stands now… hmmmm… probably Christian Martinez.
Hopefully they’ll pick up another bench/platoon guy that I can hate on instead, though.
RC
October 12th, 2012
3:10 pm
The Giants made the playoffs with Ryan Theriot hitting 2nd for a large portion of the season.
No matter what lineup the Braves have next season, it will by definition be “good enough” to make the playoffs.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:11 pm
$11mil per year for ARod? He’d be 41 when that contract expires.
No no no.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:13 pm
how is the AL a more difficult league for a hitter?
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:14 pm
how is the AL a more difficult league for a hitter?
Air quality of cities played in.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:16 pm
Bottom-line – Give me a beer!
That’s my bottom line, too, so we’re of a mind.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:18 pm
Both Pagan and Victorino strikeout about half as much as Bourn, and have a little more power too. I’d sacrifice the home runs for having those guys on base all the time.
But…wasn’t Bourn on base more than either of those guys?
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
3:18 pm
Pagan
Prado
Heyward
Willingham
Freeman
Uggla
McCann
Simmons
“This line-up is not gonna get you anywhere close to making a strong run in the playoffs.”
That lineup is better than this year’s lineup.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:20 pm
wasn’t Bourn on base more than either of those guys?…scoots
you are trying to muddy the water with facts again
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:21 pm
you are trying to muddy the water with facts again
My bad, LOL.
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
3:25 pm
Pagan: (31)
.288/.338/.440/.778 2012
.281/.333/.424/.757 Career
Bourn: (29)
.274/.348/.391/.739 2012
.272/.339/.365/.704 Career
Victorino: (31)
.255/.321/.383/.704
/275/.341/.430/.770
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
3:25 pm
Murph, age is irrelevant to the conversation but McLouth’s health is not irrelevant. That was my point about aging players. Maybe it’s difficult for you to follow along with reasoning. And we know that he was put on the DL with hamstring issues at the end of 2009 and missed time in Spring Training of 2010 with the same issues. We also know he wasn’t that great a player to begin with.
I’m not sure what you are arguing. Are you saying that Atlanta causes players to become lesser players? Are you saying McLouth stopped trying or caring? Because if none of that is true, the most likely reason, at least primary reason, for McLouth’s struggles in Atlanta are injuries. And it’s just naive to assume just because a player is in the lineup, he is fully healthy and/or suffering no mechanical affects from an injury.
As far as what McLouth has done in Baltimore, I think some of it is that he started to get more healthy than he’s been in a while and some of it is just luck. One reason I think he’s healthier is that this season he’s stolen more bases than he has since 2009. Players sometimes play over their heads over the course of 50-60 games and it’s a fluke.
I think if McLouth is healthy next year and gets significant playing time somewhere, he’ll post an OPS+ around 80-90 and will play mediocre defense. In other words, a fourth outfielder.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:27 pm
man I am tired of long waits and getting disconnected from here because of internal server errors.
if there is one spot that Ks shouldn’t matter all that much, it is leadoff. Player comes up with fewer runners on than about any other I would thing, so as long as the OBP is good, it makes little difference most of the time how he makes an out
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
not sure how that is a better lineup MF. in fact it is not
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
wasn’t Bourn on base more than either of those guys?
Enough to justify the multiple millions of dollars more per year he’s likely to get?
Not being snarky, it’s a legitimate question. Isn’t there a cost-per-times-on-base stat somewhere?
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:30 pm
275/.341/.430/.770
I WIN!!
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:30 pm
he might, but I see no real reason to expect Nate to hit that poorly if healthy
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:32 pm
it makes little difference most of the time how [the leadoff hitter] makes an out
I agree with this, though I might concede that Bourn could turn some small percentage of weak contact into safeties, were he to strike out less often. I don’t think that would make a significant difference, though.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
3:33 pm
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
Oh man how bad would the defense be out there in LF.
You know that LF is the least important defensive spot on the field, correct?
Yeah I’ll consider that when I see a worse version of Matt Diaz out there with balls that should be caught going over JW’s head or misjudged and the other team has runners on 2nd and 3rd and a croked number on the board. I’ll remember ncscoots said LF isn’t an important position.
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
3:18 pm
Pagan
Prado
Heyward
Willingham
Freeman
Uggla
McCann
Simmons
“This line-up is not gonna get you anywhere close to making a strong run in the playoffs.”
That lineup is better than this year’s lineup.
Your kidding right? Really? Please tell me you don’t actually believe that? Listen I know many of you have a hard-on for Willingham and have for years but don’t you think he’d be a Brave by now if the Braves were interested. The guy is going to be 35 yeard old and has no pressure playing for Minnesota, Oakland, and Washington. Please tell me why some team hasn’t locked this superstar up for more than 2-3 years then? He putting up numbers on teams out of contention, with no pressure, and just came off a career year. And he sucks defensively despite LF never getting any action on the baseball field
…right ncscoots. And by the way, to me, every position on the field is important.
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
3:33 pm
how is the AL a more difficult league for a hitter?
AL has been the better league for a while. Better hitters, better pitchers. As a fan of an NL team, I wish it weren’t so.
Pagan is cheaper than Bourn and he’s not all that far behind him as a player.
Bourn is often overrated, especially if you factor in the contract he could command. He’s a great defensive player but his offensive impact is often overstated. There is a very good chance that some team is going to pay Bourn as if he’s a great offensive player. There’s no doubt Pagan is a lesser player but he’s a lot cheaper and he is solid.
MFin04
October 12th, 2012
3:34 pm
“Enough to justify the multiple millions of dollars more per year he’s likely to get?”
If Bourn is at $14 million and Pagan/Victorino at $7 million, nope, it isn’t even close to being worth it.
“not sure how that is a better lineup MF. in fact it is not”
Well…
Pagan (.778) > Bourn (.739) last year
Willingham (.890 OPS) > Chipper (.832) last year
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:35 pm
Maybe it’s difficult for you to follow along with reasoning.
You are a twit. Only swap the “i” for an “a”. Seriously, do you have Assbuger’s Syndrome? You have the social graces of a retarded 5 year old.
Are you saying that Atlanta causes players to become lesser players?
Nope.
Are you saying McLouth stopped trying or caring?
Nope.
I’m saying he stunk. I’m not making excuses for why he stunk. It matters not to me. I’m not doing anything other than looking at the what he did while in Atlanta and saying he stunk. Pretty simple. The stats don’t lie.
Again, he stunk for most of this season too. A good week is pretty much all that kept him from another .230 BA.
Patrick
October 12th, 2012
3:35 pm
I really hope that the Twins do not budge on trading Willingham.
This would be a really really bad move. He is an injury-prone player who just had his career year.
And this is exactly the dumb kind of trade that I could see the Braves getting fleeced on.
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:35 pm
I agree with this, though I might concede that Bourn could turn some small percentage of weak contact into safeties, were he to strike out less often. I don’t think that would make a significant difference, though.
And that has kinda been where I’m swaying there Scoots on the whole contact issue….just think about the ole batting average and OBP if Bourn had struck out 120 and not 155 times….
Thus why I have been advocating filling a spot w/ Victorino….it just seems too obvious of a great fit.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
3:35 pm
if there is one spot that Ks shouldn’t matter all that much, it is leadoff. Player comes up with fewer runners on than about any other I would thing, so as long as the OBP is good, it makes little difference most of the time how he makes an out
I struck out about 25% of the time when I hit leadoff. Good OBP though, so I was fine (granted, I was 12-13)
Gone Viral
October 12th, 2012
3:36 pm
Bill Shanks just stole my intellectual property.
jonathan
October 12th, 2012
3:36 pm
We are wasting money on Uggla.Don’t waste it on Mccann or Hanson. Hanson talented? You must have been watching delayed taping from 3 years ago. He is done.
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:36 pm
Shaun-
So Pagan v Victorino w/ the 5 tools, the intangibles, etc….
Who do you choose on each category and who would you pick overall since they’re darn close age wise….
Murph
October 12th, 2012
3:36 pm
And yes, I intentionally misspelled that word.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
3:38 pm
Ricky Mast @RickyMast
In perfect world, move Prado to 3rd, trade 4 Willingham in LF & re-sign Bourn..who knows if a trade is possible & probably cant afford Bourn
Perfect world? Depending on cost for Willingham, then 2 of 3 is true. So far, only Prado move I like.
And this is exactly the dumb kind of trade that I could see the Braves getting fleeced on.
^^^
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:38 pm
I’ll remember ncscoots said LF isn’t an important position.
Now, what I said was that it is the “least important”, which is a little different from what you’re implying. I’m trying to point out that, in the context of this particular team and its needs of the immediate future, offense from LF might be a little more important than the glove out there. I’m certainly not trying to imply that Willingham would be stellar defensively; just that his offensive assets would outweigh his defensive liabilities.
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:38 pm
Fin-
While you can compare Bourn and Pagan, you can’t compare a 35 yr old power hitter in his career year who played LF to a 40 year old OLD man on his way out at 3B….
Here’s Chipper at 35:
.337 .425 .604 1.029
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:39 pm
AL has been the better league for a while. Better hitters, better pitchers. As a fan of an NL team, I wish it weren’t so. Shaun
bulloney. why can’t they win an allstar game then? I see no real over quality difference top to bottom between either league. The AL, especially AL East where ARod plays has some great hitting parks
Shaun
October 12th, 2012
3:40 pm
just think about the ole batting average and OBP if Bourn had struck out 120 and not 155 times….
P-Town Brave, the thing is it’s quite possible that his batting average and OBP would be noticeably lower had he focused more on merely making contact. Yes, some of his hits were because of his speed. But some of them were because he hit the ball with some authority. Usually hitting the ball with authority comes with more strikeouts and more hits.
phil
October 12th, 2012
3:41 pm
Maybe it’s difficult for you to follow along with reasoning.
You – Shaun – are a twit. Only swap the “i” for an “a”. Seriously, do you have Assbuger’s Syndrome? You have the social graces of a retarded 5 year old. MURPH
*****************
I made this point last year. Something is wrong with that boy….
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:41 pm
A good week is pretty much all that kept him from another .230 BA…murph
typical hyperbole. he had way more than a good week
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:41 pm
Now if LF wasn’t that important and Uggla is as much a butcher as some seem to say he is, why didn’t we just move him out there when we traded for him?!
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
Shaun-
And some of us strike outs were because he had a jacked up head from hitting the HR and as you said it, hitting the ball w/ authority
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
Bill Shanks just stole my intellectual property.
It will be his first encounter with anything intellectual, certainly.
nolie
October 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
.just think about the ole batting average and OBP if Bourn had struck out 120 and not 155 times…P-Town
I’m sorry, but I see no reason to think that his numbers would be all that much better, certainly not to the extent that you are implying
MiaBchBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
3:44 pm
jonathan: that is truly the smartest commentary I have seen on this blog all day long!