Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,746 comments Add your comment
Efrim
October 12th, 2012
9:48 am
Early standouts in the AFL
by Keith Law
The Arizona Fall League’s 20th season began on Tuesday afternoon, and through the first three days I’ve seen four of the six clubs, two games apiece. Here are some early impressions on prospects who’ve stood out. Bear in mind I haven’t seen Peoria or Surprise yet, and that these are preliminary impressions of players I’ll see a few more times over the next week or two.
• Kaleb Cowart (Los Angeles Angels) has been the most impressive prospect overall through these two days, showing great, quick hands at third base along with a plus arm, and good bat speed resulting in some hard contact. A switch-hitter, his left-handed swing does leave him vulnerable to changeups because he loads his hands so deep, pulling them way back even as the rest of his weight is shifting forward, and he’s punched out at least twice against right-handers who fed him two-strike changeups.
• Nick Castellanos (Detroit Tigers) has been the best pure hitter so far, showing no difficulty hitting better velocity or adjusting to off-speed stuff, making hard contact to all fields. He’s played two games in right field with no obvious trouble so far, and he’s a good enough athlete that he should be able to learn the position quickly. I still think the Tigers would be better off leaving him at third and putting Miguel Cabrera at DH, or at first base with Prince Fielder at DH.
• Javier Baez (Chicago Cubs) homered in his first AFL at bat, a bomb that landed about halfway up the giant batter’s-eye structure in center field at Salt River Fields, and as loud a hit off the bat as you’re likely to hear. Word travels fast and Baez is now seeing more off-speed stuff and more pitches away that he can’t pull, mostly because his swing is so hard and so fast that he’s unable to control it once he starts it.
• Chris Owings (Arizona Diamondbacks) has a similar problem to Baez, but without the crazy raw power. Owings has great bat speed and very good plate coverage, but has very little patience and doesn’t get himself into enough hitter’s counts. He’s a no-doubt shortstop and it won’t take much OBP to make him a big league regular, but he hasn’t made much progress in this department since high school.
• Jarred Cosart (Houston Astros) has been the most impressive pitcher I’ve seen, sitting 94-97 in his outing on Tuesday night with a hard curveball at 79-82 and a changeup with good arm speed in the lower 80s. He still cuts himself off during his delivery, but isn’t firing as hard across his body as he used to. His command was behind his control, as he was mostly around the plate but often missed the target.
• Tyler Chatwood (Colorado Rockies) started against Cosart and showed good velocity, 93-96, but had no plane on the pitch and hitters managed to square it up without much trouble. His curveball remains sharp but the lack of fastball plane or a decent third pitch really holds him back. He’s listed at 6-feet tall on the official roster, by which measuring stick Randy Johnson would come in at 7-5.
• Slade Heathcott (New York Yankees) showed his somewhat maniacal style of play on Wednesday night, trying to bowl over the catcher on a play at the plate (it didn’t work), doing a somersault after making a diving catch in center, and running out a potential game-ending ground ball that led to the tying run scoring. Heathcott has great bat speed and a smooth, easy left-handed swing, although I’d like to see him keep his hands back a little more and get more torque from his hips. His one weakness at the plate so far has been fastballs up and/or in.
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
9:49 am
Efrim – can you rewrite that so a Brave is in it?
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
9:50 am
jeffrey d
“Three errors. Without those, that ruling is just a footnote.
I am never one to blame the umps/refs for a loss. But in this situation, you’re saying that if the Braves didn’t make errors then they would’ve won the game? Well what if the Cards didn’t make mistakes? Like……dropping a popup with 2 on and 1 out?
If one of the Braves’ mistakes had been ruled an out, that could’ve been the difference of 3 runs and oh…..that was the run differential.
But I’m over it. Really ”
I’m Not, I’m Still #### OFF! I can’t watch the Playoffs without getting Mad, So I’m in SEC Football mode NOW! But It should be US in those afternoon playoff games, raising hell…Instead we are on here thumbing around playing armchair GM’s
Thank You Braves for wetting the bed when the Fans Go All Out and Support You! AGAIN!!!
Atleast they aren’t doing the season ticket promos like they did a year ago…
Murph
October 12th, 2012
9:50 am
But I will admit, I’m less excited for the hot stove season than in previous years.
You gotta stop being a pout pout fish and sally forth, man. This is going to be the most exciting offseason in recent memory. There’s money to spend, trades that will be made… the team is going to look so much different next March than they did this last March.
And we all know the additions won’t be of the Joe Mather caliber. We’re talking about the team bringing in some legitimate players to compliment a resurgent Heyward, a blossoming Freeman, a consistent Prado, etc.
I have the Winter Meetings circled on my calendar. This is THE offseason. The one we’ve all been waiting for. Our time is now.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
9:50 am
Who do the Braves have in the Arizona Fall League?
MiaBchBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
9:51 am
“While I agree that our errors cost us the game, the Cards did make an error that could have cost them the game. We never got to see what would have happened. Despite BMac’s troubles all year, I’d have loved to see him batting with the bases loaded and 1 out.”
If what happened to the Braves last Friday would’ve happened to the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Nationals, Cubs, Cardinals, White Sox, Angels, or Dodgers in the same identical situation, they’d still be talking about it on ESPN and the MLB Network. I agree, with bases loaded and one out, I would sure have liked to take my chances with McCann at the plate – even at 50-60%.
That said, the passage of a week has crystalized in my mind’s eye how absolutely gruesome those three errors were. I forgive the rookie SS – even if he did screw up twice!
Whatever Jones did to deserve the karma of such an ignominious end to an otherwise sterling career… well…
As for Uggla? Add him to the dung pile that is Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, & Nate McLouth!
Efrim
October 12th, 2012
9:52 am
Efrim – can you rewrite that so a Brave is in it?
I’ll ask a question about Salcedo in the comments section of the piece and see what his thoughts are. Little chance Salcedo was going to be a standout there.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
9:52 am
Wren might be able to wrangle Willingham for less than what’s being bandied about. That is, if the Braves decide to pursue Willingham.
Whether it’s Willingham or another player with close to comparable performance, the acquisition cost will probably be relatively high. Just the nature of the market. A position player who can be had for a minimal trade cost likely isn’t going to deliver the performance the team needs out of LF.
I’d like to keep all the young pitching, too, but I don’t see how that’s possible. Especially if Hanson and Maholm aren’t used in trades, and maybe even if they are.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
9:53 am
Gentlemen, the Braves’ blew it in the WC play-in. Just did. But it’s rear-view mirror stuff now. As Murph, said on to the winter meetings. And don’t short-change Wren. He may surprise come trade/ free agent signing time.
Efrim
October 12th, 2012
9:53 am
Jeff R., Salcedo, Ahmed, Spruill, Rasmus, Schlosser, Kennelly, and Buchter.
Not a great crop for the Bravos this year.
RC
October 12th, 2012
9:54 am
Wow Efrim, just total disregard for the ESPN Insider policy. At least throw people a link so they can sign up if they choose to
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
9:54 am
the team is going to look so much different next March than they did this last March
As little as the team has changed in the past few years (a Dan Uggla aside), he’s right. As much as we gripe about Liberty, they’re not going to reduce payroll by $20-$30 million just because that’s what the Braves dropped. With that much money, and with holes at 3B and the OF, something big is going to happen.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
9:54 am
Edward Salcedo, Nick Ahmed, Matt Kennelly, Zeke Spruill, Gus Schlosser, Cory Rasmus. AA Manager Aaron Holbert is out there as well, managing the Phoenix Desert Dog (which the Braves prospects are on)
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
9:56 am
Good morning all!
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
9:57 am
Watching the Werth AB….was truly a work of art….
He got behind 0-2….took a pitch way off…..fouled off 5 pitches in a row….took ball 2…..fouled off another 3 pitches, 1 of which was just inches into the dugout and outside of the outstretched glove of Allen Craig….then takes a slider that just barely bit off the outside corner at the knees (not sure how he took that) and then hammered the 13th pitch, what looked like a 2 seamer that went right back to his happy zone into the pen for the walk-off….
Just an absolute brilliant AB from a VERY professional hitter….
They had just gotten done saying on the graphic that Werth had the 4th highest P/AB in all of MLB…
Those are the types of players the Braves need to be looking for….guys who battle all the time and have a good P/AB
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
9:57 am
He’s listed at 6-feet tall on the official roster, by which measuring stick Randy Johnson would come in at 7-5.
MiaBchBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
9:59 am
By the way, this first round round of playoff games has been the most exciting round of LDS’s ever played. All went to FIVE games, with each one providing its own unique drama distinguishable from the other. I agree with you, Tomahawkin, I am absolutely dejected that this team did not go further, and even more IRATE that these Liberty Media IDIOTD chose to extend Wren’s contract, as well as his assistants.
Thanks to that move, you can count on more crap hitting, no OF’ers in the minors, practically NO positional players in the pipeline, more idiotic, wasteful spending on inept types, and more playoff heartbreak for the life of that contract!
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
9:59 am
A position player who can be had for a minimal trade cost likely isn’t going to deliver the performance the team needs out of LF.
I wouldn’t suggest that Willingham could be had for a “minimal cost.” But perhaps Wren can step back from a Teheran or a Delgado and offer the Twins an attractive package with a Spruill in the mix, for instance.
I’d like to keep all the young pitching, too, but I don’t see how that’s possible. Especially if Hanson and Maholm aren’t used in trades, and maybe even if they are.
The opinion seems to be that the Braves retain Hanson. Again, perhaps, but not so sure. Wren’s just had the “Jurrjens’ Experience.” He might be concerned about parallels.
And though I think Maholm is likely to be a Brave in ‘13, I don’t know that he’s untouchable. He might be a moving part if a good deal comes on Wren’s radar.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
With that much money, and with holes at 3B and the OF, something big is going to happen.
Money AND trade chips. The Braves have a wealth of pitching. I don’t want them to deal it all away, but they’ve got the flexibility to deal a few guys and still have one of the better rotations/bullpens in the NL.
I have faith in Wren. There’s no way he could have projected Uggla’s multiple-month slumps. Outside of that, all he’s ever done is made the club competitive with very limited resources. Now he has what, for him, is like a pot of gold at his disposal and a couple of extra pitchers that other teams will want. He’ll make things happen.
He just has to. Right?
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
TheOnlyBravesFan, thanks. My estimate of Nick Ahmed keeps going higher. I really like the way the kid played this past season.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
To trade Delgado and Minor for 28 yr old Pence would have been a better deal than trading Teheran or Delado + for 34 yr old Willingham.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
10:01 am
BP, did you see that I found the post where CB predicted the Uggla trade?
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
10:04 am
Murph
October 12th, 2012
9:50 am
But I will admit, I’m less excited for the hot stove season than in previous years.
You gotta stop being a pout pout fish and sally forth, man. This is going to be the most exciting offseason in recent memory. There’s money to spend, trades that will be made… the team is going to look so much different next March than they did this last March.
And we all know the additions won’t be of the Joe Mather caliber. We’re talking about the team bringing in some legitimate players to compliment a resurgent Heyward, a blossoming Freeman, a consistent Prado, etc.
I have the Winter Meetings circled on my calendar. This is THE offseason. The one we’ve all been waiting for. Our time is now.
I agree Murph. I’m also very excited for this offseason and the future of this team. Like I said before, I appreciate what Chipper did in a Braves uniform and he will always be one of my fav Braves but this is a new era in Braves baseball. Wren has created a great nucleus of young players with just a couple pieces missing. Now he has the $ and resources to improve this team through FA and trades. Let’s see what he does with it.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:06 am
If Willingham was in his late twenties and hitting the way he hit this past season, I can see surrendering more talent for him, the prospect of locking him up for a longer term being a key.
But for two years and the Braves – presumably – giving the Twins a top tier pitching prospect who provides them at least six seasons at a very controllable cost?
MiaBchBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
P-Town, during the past four years, we have allowed players like Willingham, Ross, Werth, Ibañez, & Beltran go to other teams while we trade for/sign the likes of McLouth, Anderson, Glaus, Ankiel, and Uggla.
My fear this winter is that Wren will either trade for another Uggla/McLouth (Braves’ version), or make a stupid Teixeira II trade. When it comes to hitting and its evaluation & development, count me solidly as a person who has absolutely NO faith in Wren’s ability to procure hitting for a team.
This is the same effete IDIOT who saddled the O’s with one Albert Belle! No, this guy doesn’t have a clue when it comes to people holding a bat.
Don
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
With Uglas defensive probelms, they need to trade him to an American League team so that he can DH.
Woops – Forgot – He can’t hit either.
RC
October 12th, 2012
10:09 am
And though I think Maholm is likely to be a Brave in ‘13, I don’t know that he’s untouchable. He might be a moving part if a good deal comes on Wren’s radar.
While I’m sure Maholm is tradable if possible, I don’t know if there is a window in which he can’t be traded after the option is exercised. I’d assume there would have to be, but I guess it depends on how his agent drew up the contract.
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
10:09 am
Money AND trade chips. The Braves have a wealth of pitching. I don’t want them to deal it all away
To be fair, I said this exact thing last year (that’s why I was so big on trading Jurrjens). And what happened in June? Jurrjens and Hanson flopped and Teheran and Delgado proved they weren’t ready. Who was our 5th starter? Kolb??
RC
October 12th, 2012
10:11 am
Jurrjens and Hanson flopped and Teheran and Delgado proved they weren’t ready. Who was our 5th starter? Kolb??
Some guy named Medlen I think….
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
10:12 am
Yeah Murph I saw that, great work on your part. Like I said, I don’t deny that it was done I just don’t remember it, but that doesn’t surprise me as it seems I forget more and more as each year passes and more alcoholic beverages are consumed. I do love ice cold beers and my friend JD on the weekends and occasionally on the weekdays.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:15 am
My fear this winter is that Wren will either trade for another Uggla/McLouth (Braves’ version), or make a stupid Teixeira II trade.
Frankly, I think Braves’ execs were so burned by the Tex deal that Wren isn’t likely to repeat the mistake. Trauma can have positive effects.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
10:16 am
Also great job by CB to predict the one trade that has actually came to fruition on this blog from the millions and millions of proposals.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:16 am
RC, true. I don’t know Maholm’s contract details. Might be he can’t be traded without his say-so.
flange1
October 12th, 2012
10:18 am
Remember TOBF that FW already traded Delgado for a 35 year old with 3 months left on his contract.
AND he was a pitcher not a position player so he would have pitched even less.
Think about that one…..
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
10:18 am
Some guy named Medlen I think….
OK, I love Kris and all he’s done for the Braves this year. But going into the year as a starter he had an ERA over 4. It’s not like this was the obvious choice
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
10:23 am
giving the Twins a top tier pitching prospect who provides them at least six seasons at a very controllable cost?
That six seasons of value only comes into play if the team actually has the guy on the ML roster. Both Delgado and Teheran would use their final option in 2013, if relegated to the minors. So, 2014 would be shake or bake time. I find it hard to believe that both would make the starting rotation by then, without some catastrophe or a shocker trade. Given that most think three of the rotation slots will already be filled in that year.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:25 am
I’m pretty sure that Frank was panicked. I mean, look at our staff back then. It was as if we were the Astros. No one was pitching particularly well. (outside of Sheets, who had made what, 2 starts?)
I hope and am sure that he has wizened up and won’t be doing that again.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:25 am
ncscoots, do you think that Willingham is worth either Teheran or Delgado plus others?
jeffrey d
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
I’m pretty sure that Frank was panicked
I’m not sure if that’s panicking. Jurrjens, Hanson, Teheran, and Delgado didn’t meet expectations.
Wren just……traded for Maholm.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Even if we don’t expect both or either Teheran and Delgado to be in our rotation by 2014 doesn’t mean we have to trade them for Willingham. I’m sure we can do better than that.
Should’ve traded Teheran for Greinke…
RC
October 12th, 2012
10:28 am
OK, I love Kris and all he’s done for the Braves this year. But going into the year as a starter he had an ERA over 4. It’s not like this was the obvious choice
Totally agree. But the question was who was the 5th starter AFTER JJ and Hanson flopped, and Delgado and Teheran showed they weren’t ready. By the time all that happened, Medlen was the obvious replacement. Prior to all that happening, all 4 of those guys looked like solid bets to contribute to the rotation.
P-Town Brave ©
October 12th, 2012
10:29 am
I would respond to Mia and the comments about who we went after as opposed to those guys explaining the money and players aspect but I have a meeting to get to so I don’t have time…
You know, hindsight is 20/20 guys…..we can’t all know then what we know now….no one knew Tex was gonna choke, McLouth was going to play injured his entire time here, and Uggla was going to do what he has done….
If they did, do you think Wren ever makes those trades?
Sometimes you just never know what is going to happen w/ guys….I mean cmon, did anyone on here really believe Adam Jones would have the year he’s having or the A’s would do what they did….
Its nice to point out things 2 years after they have happened but if you’re gonna do that, you gotta give him credit also for all the things he has done right, especially bringing in guys like O’Flaherty and Beachy who have performed at a high level out of nowhere….or the future of our franchise in Heyward and Freeman….along w/ not dealing Kris Medlen when he may have had the chance….Andrelton Simmons….remember him?
Its all nice and dandy to point fingers at all the negatives and sweep the positives under the rug, but given what he has done w/ the shoddy owners and the finances, I think he’s done a pretty darn good job!
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
10:29 am
I’m also happy about the Wren extension. I think he has done a great job with what he has been given. Even though many on here are crying about the Uggla extension I think given the circumstances it had to be done. Braves needed a power hitting RH bat and how could Wren know he would struggle. It’s a chance a GM takes and years prior Uggla was pretty consistent with his numbers. I still think(hope) Uggla works hard this offseason and comes back next year with a big year.
The thing I find funny is it was only a 1 year extension. Makes me believe the Braves front office(Schuerholz) wants to really see what he does this offseason with more $ and trade pieces to fill the holes on this team.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
10:30 am
do you think that Willingham is worth either Teheran or Delgado plus others?
I do. I’ve said that any such package depends more on the view of the Twins re their horizon of contention than anything. If they feel they can contend sooner, then maybe Hanson or Maholm gets in the mix. If further out, then something like Delgado and Spruill as a centerpiece. I think that variation would hold for any potential trade partner, if that partner is looking for pitching back.
Mike
October 12th, 2012
10:31 am
I’d rather see them spend the 20M a year and get Greinke. Bring Durango up and give him a shot in center. Letting Maholm go along with Bourne should clear up enough additional money to get a servicable left fielder or 3B. Let Prado play which ever position is left. With a rotation of Medlen, Greinke, Hudson, Minor, and Hanson (thinking as a fifth starter he might stay healthy) we should be in the playoff chase when the trade deadline comes around. We can add a righthanded bat for a song at that point. If Beachy comes back healthy then we could trade one or two of the young pitchers for a stud.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:31 am
The Braves “traded” for Dempster on July 23. Staff ERAs
Hudson 3.70; Minor 5.69; Sheets 0.00 (2 starts); Hanson 4.50; Delgado 4.42 (and was already out the rotation)
860Braves
October 12th, 2012
10:32 am
DOB
Who you got tonight? Baltimore or NYY?
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 12th, 2012
10:33 am
I think a Gordon for Teheran is a pretty fair and even swap. Royals need young pitching, have to make room for Myers, and the Braves get a LF for a while who is not 35 years old.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
10:34 am
BP, it was actually really entertaining looking through the 2 year old blogs for that one little nugget of CB wisdom.
People were so excited about the Uggla trade… feels like we haven’t had that kind of blog buzz around here in a long, long time.
People were also riveted by fire ant stories and explanation of what goes into making a breakfast taco.
I need to return to my roots. Less baseball talk, more Murph’s Sopapillaporium talk.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:36 am
Agree BP. I’d try to see if they’d bite on Delgado first (since Teheran is still held in high regard), but if it takes Teheran, so be it. Gordon makes 9mil in ‘13, 10mil in ‘14, 12.5mil in ‘15, and has a team option for 12.5mil in 16.
An affordable, 4 years of control while he’s in his prime.
Jeff R
October 12th, 2012
10:37 am
do you think that Willingham is worth either Teheran or Delgado plus others?
I do. I’ve said that any such package depends more on the view of the Twins re their horizon of contention than anything. If they feel they can contend sooner, then maybe Hanson or Maholm gets in the mix. If further out, then something like Delgado and Spruill as a centerpiece. I think that variation would hold for any potential trade partner, if that partner is looking for pitching back.
I’ve got to agree with TheOnlyBravesFan on this one. I don’t see Willingham for Delgado or Teheran plus others as a the highest return value for the Braves. Better to have used one of those prospects to try to obtain Greinke during the season (the Braves need for offense notwithstanding).
Again, a slugger in his mid-thirties controllable for two years – that’s Willingham. I’d pursue other options as well for hitting if the aforementioned is Willingham’s price tag.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
10:38 am
I think a Gordon for Teheran is a pretty fair and even swap.
I really like Alex Gordon, but I think he’s a complementary offensive player. I don’t believe the Braves are looking that kind of guy in LF, going forward. Particularly, one who doesn’t fare very well against LHP.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:40 am
http://www.talkingchop.com/2012/10/12/3493046/atlanta-braves-off-season-questions-part-4-who-to-spend-on
Bourn, Hamilton, Victorino, BJ Upton, Torii Hunter, Swisher
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
10:41 am
Again, a slugger in his mid-thirties controllable for two years – that’s Willingham. I’d pursue other options as well for hitting if the aforementioned is Willingham’s price tag.
I certainly can appreciate that view, Jeff. It’s not a no-brainer, for sure.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
10:42 am
Josh Hamilton
“LOLOL, are you serious?” Yes, I’m serious. Everyone thinks that Josh is going to get gobs of cash from some cash-rich team, but I’m taking a different approach. I’m of the opinion that Hamilton will go somewhere he’s comfortable, somewhere out of the media spotlight, and will not necessarily demand top dollar. He’s from Raleigh, and may want to move somewhere close to home. All of those things describe the Braves and Atlanta.
Good luck with that…
Peter R.
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
Also, after thinking about this a little bit more, I agree with you about Pagan, but not about Swisher. I could see Willingham, but not at the Twins’ asking price. Eh, Teheran/Delgado could wind up really worth their weight in gold. I would rather the team just take its time rather than putting everything on black. Bourn, despite his great defense, really has a huge strike out problem now. Just get ride of McCann and go for the gold and a productive left fielder. Swisher’s numbers might be the byproduct of killing teams like Toronto and KC + the lineup he’s in. He’s got no pressure on him to produce. We don’t need another hitter like Uggla. We need someone legitimate who can bat 3rd/4th. Heyward might produce much better if he was batted elsewhere in the lineup. Wren didn’t say either way what he was going to do with McCann. I hope they make some drastic changes because this is the off-season to make them.
Lew
October 12th, 2012
10:45 am
A serviceable Left Fielder and Durano as the outfield fix? Oh please no.
A pitcher – no matter how good, is not going to make up for our offensive woes last year – which are exactly what our problem was and not pitching. And neither are a serviceable LFer and Durango.
flange1
October 12th, 2012
10:47 am
And Gordon is a clean up hitter?
Murph
October 12th, 2012
10:54 am
I really like Hamilton’s story, and I think he’s one of the best baseball players I’ve seen in the last 10 years… but I wouldn’t go after him even if the Braves had the money to do so. Too much baggage.
Gary O.
October 12th, 2012
10:54 am
MiaBchBravesFan,
P-Town, during the past four years, we have allowed players like Willingham, Ross, Werth, Ibañez, & Beltran go to other teams while we trade for/sign the likes of McLouth, Anderson, Glaus, Ankiel, and Uggla..
To be fair to Wren, Ross was not his fault. I think the Marlins claimed him off waivers before the Braves could (and subsequently traded him to the Giants). The Braves were interested last offseason, but Ross chose to sign with the Red Sox.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
10:56 am
Why did Gordon only play in 123 games over the course of 2009 – 2010? Was he hurt or just sent down?
john
October 12th, 2012
10:59 am
First, I would NOT pay Bourn the $100 million or whatever it will cost to resign him.
Second, I’d just as soon be done with McCann. He’s a terrible defensive catcher, always has been, and pitchers don’t like throwing to him, they always prefer the backup. His hitting isn’t what it once was, and the fact that teams play the shift against him and he can’t beat it, shows me he’s a bad predictable pull only hitter.
Third, always loved Prado, but his approach his worrying me. He ALWAYS takes the first pitch, why??? Hitting in the #2 spot is ruining him. His primary swing has become the unaggressive slappy hit to right field.
Last, I think they should unload Tommy Hanson and get what they can for him.
In short, Prado to third, find a decent corner outfielder(trade for or sign) for left, and do what you can at center (Constanza?). The pitching should be very good, Heyward and Freeman are emerging as the stars. Prado is still there, Simmons, left field(?), hopefully Uggla learns how to hit and not just do curls and swing for the fences every time up.
Lew
October 12th, 2012
11:01 am
The two spot is ruining Prado? I marvel sometimes.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
11:01 am
And Gordon is a clean up hitter?
Not really, though I think he has the power to possibly do so. He hit 23 HR in 2011 and averages 40+ doubles a season. He’s hit leadoff quite a bit (strange) but has been a good hitter in the 3 and 6 spots. I’d hit him 3rd if we had him.
CF
Prado
Gordon
Heyward/Freeman
Uggla
Heyward/Freeman
McCann
Simmons
Of course, if we have a purely defense CF, we can flip Simmons to hit 1, or put him 2nd behind Prado.
Efrim
October 12th, 2012
11:01 am
“Premium players”. Really wish he didn’t say that.
But, who cares at this point? Way too early to know the prices on “premium players”, so it’s hard to even gauge if it’s even a possibility.
Efrim
October 12th, 2012
11:03 am
I’d hit him 3rd if we had him.
And that lineup would average about 2.5 runs per game vs. LHP.
It’s gotta be a very good hitter who is RH. Most all LHH struggle vs. LHP. I do not understand why some folks don’t get that.
Lew
October 12th, 2012
11:03 am
You know who else took the first pitch and made it a major part of his hitting philosophy? Ted Williams.
Playem or Tradem
October 12th, 2012
11:07 am
The Brave’s should as you said go after Angel Pagan for center,move Prado to 3rd,sign Reed Johnson and trade Teheran.The most sensible move would be to try and land Wil Myer from the Royals(who are loaded in the outfield and need pitching badly) for Hanson/Gilmartin and/or Teheran(Myer won’t come cheap as he is baseball’s best outfield prospect) as Myer can play left or right field adequately and hit like Freddie and Jason can with potentially 30+Homers a year.That would give the Bravos future stars in Freeman,Heyward,Simmons and Myer all 23 or younger!The Brave’s should not even consider trading Delgado(he is better than Teheran in my eyes).They should be ok with Hudson,Medlen,Maholm,Minor and Delgado(until Beachy comes back)pitching………..The Big moves will be signing Pagan away from the Giants and getting Myer ina trade with the Royals…..then all should be ok for 90+ wins again!
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:07 am
You know what would be nice for a change? Making a move for a borderline guy, a guy who is good but has never been viewed as a “star”, and then having him just blow up and take the game by storm instead of fizzle and become a side note on the season.
I know Wren will get at least one “premium” player (what ever that is), and I’ll bet he’ll have to settle for a less-than-premium player for the other open spot… for once, Baseball Gods, can you take our less-than-premium acquisition and turn him into a superstar? Just this once? We don’t ask all that much of you.
Please?
john
October 12th, 2012
11:08 am
The baseball card collecting nerds in full force today. How many autographs you dorks get today?
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
11:09 am
Even if Gordon were a perfect offensive fit, the Royals are not looking for prospect pitching or even middle ML starters. They (as do the Braves, IMO) need someone to front the rotation and help bring along guys such as Paulino and Duffy, plus they still have some studly arms in the minors. I don’t think the Braves really match up with them on primary needs.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
11:14 am
Looks like a mix of injuries and demotions on Gordon… he’d get hurt, rehab, and wait for his next opportunity to come back
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:15 am
They (as do the Braves, IMO) need someone to front the rotation and help bring along guys
Hanson could front their rotation. As could Maholm.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:16 am
The baseball card collecting nerds in full force today. How many autographs you dorks get today?
I charge $20 for mine, so get in line.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
11:16 am
The most sensible move would be to try and land Wil Myer from the Royals(who are loaded in the outfield and need pitching badly) for Hanson/Gilmartin and/or Teheran
More like Medlen and pieces. Francoeur is holding down RF, but he’s just a placeholder for Myers, if he’s ready.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
11:18 am
Hanson could front their rotation. As could Maholm.
I don’t think that’s exactly what the Royals have in mind, Murph. Not with the likes of Haren, Lohse, Sanchez, et al., available on the FA market.
Capt.Mudd
October 12th, 2012
11:20 am
I know there is gold out there to be found, cultivated….and protected. The next ‘Golden Boy’ for this Braves franchise is already aware of the possibility of coming to our spring training exercises. Mr.
Wren currently has his sights set on him…..rest assured fans…..the future looks bright.
***the above is the edited version of my last ‘Braves dream.’
Capt.Mudd
October 12th, 2012
11:20 am
I know there is gold out there to be found, cultivated….and protected. The next ‘Golden Boy’ for this Braves franchise is already aware of the possibility of coming to our spring training exercises. Mr.
Wren currently has his sights set on him…..rest assured fans…..the future looks bright.
***the above is the edited version of my last ‘Braves dream.’
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
11:20 am
It’s gotta be a very good hitter who is RH. Most all LHH struggle vs. LHP. I do not understand why some folks don’t get that.
Cody Ross for the OF then. Not saying that Gordon is ideal, but I’d rather trade Teheran or Delgado for him than Willingham. He has some power that I think can be useful. Plus, adding a RH centerfielder may negate the need for our LF to be righty.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 12th, 2012
11:21 am
Hanson shouldn’t be fronting a rotation unless it’s a college team. Heck, a little league team.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:21 am
I like FW, I like the extension cause he has done as good a job in terms of resuts as I can expect given the $$$$$$$$$ he has to work with.
Every GM makes mistakes but in the Wren era he has made alot more good decisions than bad.
I still do not think the Uggla deal was all that bad — expect a better yr in 13.
Now, I do hope he can retool the system with better position players than we have in the next couple of drafts.
Salcedo looks like a mistake. Best guys we have is a back up defensive catcher type in Bethancourt, and a couple of 4th OF guys in Lipka and Cunningham.
Got to do better and we can.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:21 am
scoots, do you think those front-line starters are realistically going to sign with the Royals when they’ve got the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers/etc courting them? Going to be a tough sell for KC, even with the cadre of talent they have on the field and in the minors.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been to KC, but I have. Not a lot going for that city.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:24 am
Alex Gordon is better than some give him credit for — great OPB and doubles man. And a good OF who is young.
Why chaff about that? He has had a very good two year record. And he is only 28.
Not a great HR guy but has 23 and 14 the last two yrs — Perhaps we can count on him for 18 HR and 40 something doubles and good OPB? 80 to 90 RBI. Not bad.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
11:24 am
Heck, maybe the Braves go wild-eyed, trade Medlen to KC for Myers, and spend money on a stud pitcher instead of LF.
Selling high, dontcha know.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:26 am
Prado for 3B and Alex Gordon for LF? And Pagen for CF?
And get Mc Cann healthy and expect Uggla to have a better yr.
And hope Simmons can do a bit better in big games — the ability is there but that bad throw in the WC game was not good. He can do better. He made a baserunning mistake too– I sort of put that WC game on Simmons. But he is the SS of the future.
Heyward and Freeman are untouchable, the foundation of the franchise.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:30 am
I disagree with that ncscoots — Myers is still a prospect and we really do not know about him till we see him.
And the Braves are not going to pony up the $$$$$$$$$ for a frontline SP. I like the pitching as it is now save for Hanson. JJ is as good as gone too. He no longer counts here.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
11:31 am
john
“The baseball card collecting nerds in full force today. How many autographs you dorks get today?”
Don’t knock people who collect cards, I did for 15 years until the Industry went to the Toilet 10 years ago…
DAP
October 12th, 2012
11:31 am
id be ok wiht trading either delgado or tehran in a package for willingham. at some point, these guys need to contribute to the team ML team, so that means either pitching well in the rotation or being traded for other things we need.
i dont think gerardo parra is a bad player to look at, if in fact he can play a good CF. i also think chris young might be a good option, especially if AZ is going to send money with him.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:32 am
FYI, for the Cody Ross fanclub, it’s sounding like he and the Red Sox are working on a new contract. He likes them, they like him, I’d say he’s pretty much off the table.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:32 am
Myers is a heck of a prospect but might take a yr or two to develop.
Look at Heyward and Freeman — they are still learning, they have progressed but are still in the getiing btter stage. Both should be hitting the prime by next yr or 14.
It takes time for even some of the best of em.
It took a while for Gordon to get good.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
11:32 am
@Disgusted
I’m Still Disgusted about what happened at the Ted a Week Ago, Total Chokejob!
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 12th, 2012
11:34 am
Murph
“FYI, for the Cody Ross fanclub, it’s sounding like he and the Red Sox are working on a new contract. He likes them, they like him, I’d say he’s pretty much off the table.”
I’m not in his fanclub, the dude is flat out Overrated
And Willingham is old! Both would be future busts if they dawned the Braves Uni…
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:34 am
Cody Ross worked great in Boston & Murph is right — he is a good candidate to stay put.
I wonder who the fool will be who will sign Bourn — Bourn is Chone Figgins in waiting. He is a BUMB.
Murph
October 12th, 2012
11:35 am
Prado for 3B and Alex Gordon for LF? And Pagen for CF?
It’s not really a sexy, headline of an offseason, but if that’s who the Braves went into ST with, I wouldn’t be disappointed.
The team would retain some financial flexibility to make moves at the deadline, they’d be able to hold on to at least one of Delgado/Teheran, and they’d be pretty potent offensively if BMac and Uggla do better than they did this year.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:36 am
Tomahawk — I will never forgive them for that WC game — no matter what happens.
I am still mad about the 96 WS and losing the 97 NLCS to the upstart Marlins. We should have had a dynasty from 95 to 97 but settled for being good instead of great.
DAP
October 12th, 2012
11:36 am
there are other cody ross type players out there, if your looking for a guy to hit vs. lefties mostly. bringing reed johnson back accomplishes that, there is also scott hairston. and if you arent worreid about defense, jonny gomes is a free agent. he kills lefties.
Disgusted
October 12th, 2012
11:38 am
We can do better than Scott Hairston.
ncscoots
October 12th, 2012
11:38 am
It’s not really a sexy, headline of an offseason, but if that’s who the Braves went into ST with, I wouldn’t be disappointed.
Nor would I. I just wouldn’t be watching many Braves games, is all.
DAP
October 12th, 2012
11:39 am
i still think victorino might be a better option than pagan, despite the down year. he is a little better defensively, i think, and he clout as a WS veteran. i think pagan might not mesh quite as well with this team.
DAP
October 12th, 2012
11:40 am
disgusted, i agree. i think reed johnson is better.