Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,746 comments Add your comment
Shaun
October 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
TennesseePaul, I would proudly use third-order wins over World Series wins any day, in terms of getting an idea of which teams are the best in a particular season. If people think World Series wins are the better measure of team quality, that’s their problem.
Klaus
October 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
Duh Willingham is with the Twins. Brain fart. Locale & team comments stand. manager bit not so much lol
Trader Jack
October 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
Efrim
Next you’ll be calling for the DH in the NL – LOL
TennesseePaul
October 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
I don’t think Wren will give Hamilton a single thought
I don’t think he will either. I’ll b!tch about it, but it is a smart move to not invest in him. Teams are doing pretty good these days to prevent players from reaching FA in their primes. More and more they only get there when they are 30 or so… making signing them long term less responsible and making them seek that long term deal more avidly.
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
5:56 pm
Truth is that we could have a 200 mil plus payroll and the Braves would find a way to choke up in post season — they never can win in post season.
Never never will happen and he who has hope is a kool aid driinking fool.
I won;t get fooled next yr. Pessimissim is the only way to go — we will never have anything championship to root for.
That WC game has finshed me with this team.
cricket
October 11th, 2012
5:57 pm
I am not sold on Simmons yet — not after that bad game he had in the WC game.
come on man, based on one game? he is clearly one of the best, if not the best defensive SS in the league.
based on this logic, that other guy who threw made the 1st error on DP ball should be forced to retire..
CB
October 11th, 2012
5:58 pm
I think we need a pessimism club. SOPH!
Bobby's Cox
October 11th, 2012
5:58 pm
No but I mean Jeebus….we have a few guys that performed ridiculously better when they made contact
Even Uggla hit when he wasn’t swinging for the fences, which was April and two weeks in August. Someone has to drive the point home to put the ball in play & stop trying to swing your hardest.
Gil in Mechanicsville
October 11th, 2012
5:59 pm
Great piece DOB, if I am not mistaken Willingham was converted to play the outfield after breaking in with the Marlins as a catcher. It would at least allow him to serve as the emergency catcher ala Matt Diaz. The again, maybe Prado could always strap on the tools of ignorance, he seems to be able to do everything else.
Klaus
October 11th, 2012
5:59 pm
As a side note the one that got away is Hunter Pence. Imagine if Wren had stretched for that guy last summer. We probably make the WC in 2011 and are still playing today.
Plus you would have him for all of 2013.
Bourn was another Tex trade but without the prospect loss pain. We didn’t over pay but is was a 15mos rental.
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:00 pm
bye
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
We really have no one in the system that is remotely MLB caliber as far as every day players go.
We have pitchers but the most likely every day player is Bethancourt who is prolly gonna be a back up defensive catcher as his upside.
Terdo and Salcedo just plain suck, Cunningham and Lipka are 4th OF types.
The system really is a desert. We really got to develop some players in the next couple drafts.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
Which OF would you prefer most? 3 are free agents, 1 may possibly become available. (Career stats)
Player A: .266/.359/.476/.834 vs righties; .250/.369/.503/.872 vs lefties
Player B: .229/.288/.416/.704 vs righties; .276/.325/.500/.825 vs lefties
Player C: .253/.312/.415/.727 vs righties; .284/.353/.575/.928 vs lefties
Player D: .286/.338/.466/.803 vs righties; .285/.341/.504/.845 vs lefties
Keeping in mind that our biggest need is said to be someone who mashes lefties
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
Kluas — We really did not give anything up for Bourn. It was a good but not great rental.
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:03 pm
@The Only Braves Fan — Where are the HR, Doubles & RBI stats in those player projections.
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
I think we need a pessimism club. SOPH!
We already have one. It’s called the blog
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
Cricket — I am mad at Simmons and Uggla too for that game.
It was shoddy D that lost that game more than one Ump’s call.
I am still mad about that game. I refunse to ever forgive them for it cause that was our window of opportunity and we choked — fair and square.
I dont see another 94 W season any time soon.
O.M.G.
October 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
O boy an A, B, C, D question. I don’t think we have had one of those since Samantha. I believe the correct answer was C.
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
Where are the HR, Doubles & RBI stats in those player projections.
In slugging….
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
Keeping in mind that our biggest need is said to be someone who mashes lefties…TOBF
not so, our biggest need is a hitter who mashes both, not looking for any platoon at this point. perhaps later in the winter if nothing else is available, but just be cause folks want a guy who can hit lefties does not mean that is all he should do
Klaus
October 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
I know I said we didnt give up much for Bourn. I wish we have up more to get Pence. The outcome would have been better IMHO.
Klaus
October 11th, 2012
6:08 pm
Given up more…
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:08 pm
Chipper E. Jones had his locker installed at his house today.
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
I would have liked Pence, but the difference in asking prices was ridiculous. Their GM had Phillie ties and did what it took to get Pence there
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:10 pm
Obsession is such a foolish thing
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:10 pm
I guess there’s not much for Chipper to tweet about now.
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:10 pm
Did the Phillies even give up anything significant for Pence?
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers, then we kill all the obsessive maroons….
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
You are right nolie. Give it up and get some peace man.
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:12 pm
yeah, right jerk
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:12 pm
I refunse to ever forgive them
That’s a bit harsh don’t you think? What is one good thing that can come from holding this grudge?
HooRah
October 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
Nowhere Man is probably Lou I bet, probably Dumbass too
O.M.G.
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
TOBF, ok spill the beans, who are they?
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
could be Hoo, mindless cretin whoever he is
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
O boy an A, B, C, D question. I don’t think we have had one of those since Samantha. I believe the correct answer was C.
Indeed you are correct!!! Didn’t know Samantha did that, or I wouldn’t have done it. Now Murph accuse me of being Samantha again….
Btw, Player A is Willingham, B is Scott Hairston, C is Cody Ross, and D is Hunter Pence.
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
Wow Nolie no need for name calling
Hugo Z Hackenbush
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
Disgusted, if you’re “finished with this team,” why do you keep posting?
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
There should be a senior citizen section of the blog
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:17 pm
Wow Nowhere man no need for name calling
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
6:17 pm
I would have liked to have Pence as well… maybe we can get him this winter or next. And while I sort of wanted Frank to include Minor to get the deal done, it wasn’t in our best interest to do so.
Baseball game calls, I’ll see y’all later on. Peace
Perennial Failures
October 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Pick up Hamilton, trade for Willingham (Delgado or Tehran), Prado to 3B, Uggla to bench. Pick up a 2B prospect in a deal where we trade Hanson. Don’t pick up McCann option, pick up A.J. Pierzynski.
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
6:22 pm
Testy testy today
Crank My Wren
October 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
1. Pagan (I’ve really liked this guy for a long time)
2. Prado (5)
3. Hamilton (Do it. Just do it.)
4. Freeman
5. Heyward (Boy, do we got some lefties..)
6. Uggla (This guy sucks big time)
7. Mac (Prove me wrong)
8. Simmons
You can likely get as good, or better production out of Delgado than the more expensive Maholm.
Don’t exercise this option and also DUMP HANSON.
1. Meds
2. Huddy
3. Minor (Breakout season in 2013)
4. Delgado
5. Teheran (Beachy by All-Star break)
Hugo Z Hackenbush
October 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
Sign Hamilton, trade for Pujols and King Felix, sign Greinke, trade for Cabrera, sign Ichiro (just because), install antgravity device beneath Turner field so stadium can orbit earth while games are being played. That is all.
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
I forgot how much I missed trade proposals
Murph
October 11th, 2012
6:27 pm
Really Murph? I was an everyday regular when that trade went down and don’t remember anyone predicting that, especially down to the players involved. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just think I’d remember something like that.
It was CB on November 14th, 2010 at 11:57am.
I was thinking Infante and a strong reliever.
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/11/08/as-hot-stove-heats-up-expect-unexpected-from-wren/?cp=33
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
I remember that Murph, IIRC I thought that might not be quite enough
Murph
October 11th, 2012
6:37 pm
First I had to look up the date of the Uggla trade, then I had to go through that blog and its 5000+ comments to find the one person who came forth to say “I called it!”, which happened to be CB, who said something like “I called that trade 2 days ago! Nostradamus?”.
Then I had to go to the blog from 2 days before and sift through all 4000+ comments to find where CB mentioned his Uggla/Infante+reliever prediction.
While sifting through the threads I also uncovered a page where I explained the mating rituals of fire ants and another where I taught people what a breakfast taco is.
Slow day at the office.
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:40 pm
U da man Murf
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
I forgot how much I missed trade proposals
lol
They’re like opinions and you know what folks say about those too.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
6:49 pm
C’mon Kozma….DO something!
Tim L.
October 11th, 2012
6:50 pm
I’d rather seee Delgado in the rotation that Tommy – the 5 MPH loss is big, just not same pitcher anymore.
Victorino is coming off down year, good time to sign for CF and will probably bounce back.
Save money with Delgado and Victorino – and go after Hamilton for LF.
Tim
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:51 pm
They’re like opinions and you know what folks say about those too.
That they’re like hineys?
David O'Brien
October 11th, 2012
6:53 pm
DOB: Doesn’t Willingham’s age have to come into play? He will be 35 at the start of next season. While I’m not saying his performance is going to fall off of a cliff, but I’m concerned about it. Especially since Teheran/Delgado + will be traded for him.
If he’s younger than 31-21, I say do it. But he’s 34, I’m worried. TheOnlyBravesFan
Sure, his age will have to be considered. Medical reports studied carefully, as usual. But if the Braves got him they’d be getting him for 2 years, not for 4-5. And at $7 million per year, not $12-15 million per year. That ($7 mill) is flat-out cheap in today’s market for any productive veteran, much less one who’s had 64 homers with 208 RBIs in the past two seasons while totaling 278 games played and 1,178 plate appearances.
Someone mentioned no DH in the NL. Well, he only DH’d 25 games last year. Played 119 games in the outfield. And the Braves will play some interleague games in AL ballparks in 2013.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
That they’re like hineys?
Yeah !
Murph
October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
Cards and Nats headed to the bottom of the 9th tied 1-1.
I’m gonna go ahead and predict a Harper HR to end the game.
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:56 pm
Hugo — I am finished in hoping for a WS appearance for thsi team.
There is something in the psyche of this team that does not allow them to win the most impoortant games.
No playoff W’s in our future —- Cold hard fact. Too many playoff disappointments — no sign that can possibly be corrected.
Disgusted
October 11th, 2012
6:58 pm
I hope the Nats walk off with a W by any means necessary.
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
6:59 pm
I’m gonna go ahead and predict a Harper HR to end the game.
And in 2 years somebody will excavate the blogs to find this
nolie
October 11th, 2012
6:59 pm
Go Cards!!!!
BFChris28
October 11th, 2012
7:03 pm
Werth did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
7:03 pm
Jason Werth.
I told y’all 2 years ago.
Trader Jack
October 11th, 2012
7:03 pm
The Nats live for another day
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
7:07 pm
Werth it
Nowhere man
October 11th, 2012
7:08 pm
Now that is Clutch.
N8
October 11th, 2012
7:09 pm
That was one helluv an AB by General Custer….er… I mean Werth.
CB
October 11th, 2012
7:11 pm
I was trying to hide under a bed when Murph was talking about the Uggla trade but I do believe later I threw in Dunn’s name, I was a good guesser in those days.
Bob
October 11th, 2012
7:14 pm
Don’t pick up the option on McCan’t…players could care less what teams have done for them so why should the Braves overpay for declining mediocrity? Why can’t we find an equal replacement for half the money? And one who can play more games, too. TV money is ruining the sport. Just my opinion.
jim
October 11th, 2012
7:15 pm
There seems to be a thought that adding this or that 30+ year old veteran no matter what the cost in prospects is the route that will propel the Braves into post-season success next year. Firstly, if the Braves have to replace both Chipper and Bourn, then we are likely talking about adding two player of equal ability to what is being lost, not significantly more ability. Secondly the McCann injury/declining performance question is a matter of concern. Will he be and remain healthy and will he produce at anything close to his pre-2011 injury numbers? Thirdly there are issues with the pitching staff that are being ignored:
1. Beachy won’t return until the AS break, and won’t be near his early 2012 form until 2014. It take more than a year for pitchers to come all the way back from TJ surgery. Look at Santana and Wainwright earlier this year.
2. Between the bullpen, the rotation, and AAA, Medlen logged fewer than 130 innings — the most he has thrown in any of his years. Next year he will be asked to make 33+ starts and will likely hit a wall when he gets up around 160 innings. He will be 27 (which is good), but will be more likely able to handle the workload of an ace better in 2014.
3. Despite the willingness of DOB and many on this blog to trade away Delgado for a 34-year old veteran, he could be a big part of the future of this club. Just like Minor and many other young pitchers, he had some struggles in his first half season in the big leagues, but the promise that he showed in the majority of his starts should outweigh the problems he experienced in some of the others. He also might have had less pressure on him in his outings if the team scored any runs for him. Delgado has the best pure stuff of any of the starters — a fastball that reaches the mid 90’s, a plus changeup, a good two seamer with movement, and an adequate curve. Given a spot in the rotation next year, he would develop into a frontline starter by 2014 much like Minor did this year. Of all of our prospects, he is the one who should be almost untouchable.
Realistically, I think that 2014 is the next best chance for advancing in the playoffs — The “young guns” will be more fully established and the core players should be in their prime. The focus this year should be on adding young players who will be part of this core going forward.
Tomahawk!!
October 11th, 2012
7:16 pm
Hire Dr. Heimlich
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
7:17 pm
Now you’re just a blind squirrel
CB
October 11th, 2012
7:19 pm
Or a Chopper to Chipper.
Bob
October 11th, 2012
7:23 pm
DOB is an excellent writer and knows how to elicit pro and con opinions, but trading away the future for retreads is what got the Braves in this mess. Get rid of the trash, have a bad year, and then dominate the league again. Just my opinion.
Mitchell
October 11th, 2012
7:31 pm
Man, wonderful to see all these tightly pitched post-season games and improbable comebacks, near comebacks and walk-off home runs.
All by teams who aren’t the Braves.
Makes me want to f*ing throw up..
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
7:36 pm
Man, wonderful to see all these tightly pitched post-season games and improbable comebacks, near comebacks and walk-off home runs.
You know half of the teams still lost, right?
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
7:48 pm
Did the Phillies even give up anything significant for Pence?
Yes, Jon Singleton and Jarred Cosart. Definitely significant prospects. They didn’t really get that back for him(Nate Sheirholtz, Tommy Joseph, Seth Rosin).
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
7:51 pm
And we pretty much just gave up peanut butter cups for Bourn
Mitchell
October 11th, 2012
7:53 pm
The Braves have one walk-off home run in their playoff history in Atlanta.
The Nationals now have one in only their second home post-season game.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
8:02 pm
And we pretty much just gave up peanut butter cups for Bourn
Yup. Last two significant trades this team has made have been steals. Bourn/Uggla. I think we gave up a real good prospect for Maholm/Johnson in Vizcaino.
George_George
October 11th, 2012
8:02 pm
WILLINGHAM would look good for 2 years, but would MIN give up a guy who hit 35 HRs had 110 RBIs without wanting half our team in return?
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
8:05 pm
Bitchell – you’re complaining about playoff walkoff homeruns now? My gosh, it’s like you’re not even trying to change your stereotype.
jim
October 11th, 2012
8:05 pm
Would that be by Eddie Matthews in 1957? What about the walk off single by Francisco Cabrerra?
jeffrey d
October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
I think we gave up a real good prospect for Maholm/Johnson in Vizcaino
Totally. Granted the Braves needed a reliable starter, but I think I would’ve been happy with rolling the dice with Teheran/Delgado if it meant giving up Vizcaino (or were they on the DL at the time?)
jim
October 11th, 2012
8:08 pm
Chipper hit a walk off against Billy Wagner in a Houston series.
Felix
October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm
McOut starts for the Orioles? Wow! What the H____ ? Couldn’t hit a lick for the Braves and now he starts for Baltimore in the playoffs.
What the H____ happened?
jim
October 11th, 2012
8:15 pm
If you look at the top 10 list for each of the minor leagues in the latest Baseball America, the only Braves to gain a mention were Teheran (#4 in the IL), Simmons (#6 in the SL) and Sims in the Appl. League. The minor league system has been depleted by callups and trades over the past three years — Be very careful of depleting the system further.
Mixxo
October 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
Felix -
McLouth pretty much put the Orioles on his back and carried them thru September. No lie.
tommykk
October 11th, 2012
8:32 pm
Nate for CF next year? He is raking!
MiaBchBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
8:32 pm
MiaBchBravesFan
October 9th, 2012
2:45 pm
Another indictment on Frank Wren’s inability to evaluate hitting: while we sign the Garrett Anderson’s and Troy Glaus’ of the world, players like Raul Ibañez and Carlos Beltran are viable contributors to their respective playoff teams, to say nothing of their clutch performances down the stretch.
If those players would have failed as Braves… well, you cannot speculate on such things. That said, the fact that Atlanta is the place where Hitting goes to die needs to be something that people much smarter than Wren must hunker down in a bunker somewhere and really, REALLY examine, so that mistakes like Dan Uggla (& Nate McLouth) do not happen again.
This team will NEVER be a viable playoff team so as long as they hit .230 – with putrid RISP numbers – in September baseball.
——————————————————–
How prescient!!! And just like THAT, Raul Ibañez hits TWO bombs, in the 9th and in extras, to foil the Birds (note the time stamp).
Frank Wren needs to step aside and let the grownups solve the Braves’ hitting needs.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
8:33 pm
If you look at the top 10 list for each of the minor leagues in the latest Baseball America, the only Braves to gain a mention were Teheran (#4 in the IL), Simmons (#6 in the SL) and Sims in the Appl. League. The minor league system has been depleted by callups and trades over the past three years — Be very careful of depleting the system further.
Braves had 11 players make the lists. Which was ranked around 10-15 in terms of the total amount of prospects which made the lists.
Gulf Coast League – SS Jose Peraza, LHP Luis Merejo
Appalachian League – RHP Luke Sims, RHP Mauricio Cabrera, SS Jose Peraza(he made both lists)
Carolina League – RHP J.R. Graham, SS Nick Ahmed, 3B Edward Salcedo
Southern League – SS Andrelton Simmons, C Christian Bethancourt, LHP Sean Gilmartin
International League – RHP Julio Teheran
Mountain Braves Fan
October 11th, 2012
8:36 pm
Someone earlier asked for thoughts about Alex Gordon. Bats left handed, plays left field, 14 HRs/72 RBIs/.822 OPS. Contract: 3 years $31.5 million with a 2016 $12.5 million player option.
Basically Alex Gordon is a poor man’s left handed version of Martin Prado who isn’t as versatile as Prado (Gordon plays only left field, Prado can play just about anywhere), who strikes out a lot more than Prado (Gordon 140 strikeouts in 642 ABs. Prado 69 strikeout in over 600 ABs), and who would only exacerbate the Braves suckiness versus LHP (Gordon .688 OPS vs LHP, Prado .864 OPS vs LHP).
The Braves need a leadoff hitter and a cleanup hitter. Alex Gordon is neither. He might be an okay option for a team not so desperately in need of right handed power as the Braves.
MiaBchBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
8:40 pm
An addendum: someone earlier commented on how the Braves had not one single OF in the AZ Fall League…
Honestly, is anyone on the planet who follows the Braves really surprised about that???
WayToGoFrank!!!
Jim Edwards
October 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
Nice comprehensive article. Agree with most but would try to renegotiate a three year deal with Mac to add more money to 2013 budget. I like Pagan suggestion. Did any one realize Uggla was MORE productive and offensively efficient than Bourne from Aug 1 thru end of year?. That says a lot about both of them. didn’t they lead the team in strikeouts ? For outfielders I like Victorino and Pagan, is Pence still a free agent. How come nobody talks about David Wright as a possibility? I don’t think he’s sold on being a Met forever. he’s ready to get in the post season fun.
southgabrave
October 11th, 2012
8:53 pm
I’m tired of seeing all those power hitters trying to hit a HR to drive a runner in from 2nd or 3b with less than 2 outs. Can we possibly get a few contact hitters that can play some good D? A base hit will usually get a runner home from second. Make some contact a put the ball in play. I remember years back over a 100 strikeouts was a bad thing, now it is the norm most players including leadoff hitter. Dale Murphy was criticized for strikeing out 125 times and hitting 280. Wow things change! You guys just want HR’s and power. I would love Span and Pagan in the OF together with Heyward. I wouldn’t mind a Keppinger type at 2b instead of Uggla.
Span CF
Pagan LF
Prado 3B
Heyward RF
Freeman 1B
Mc Cann/Ross C
Keppinger 2B
Simmons SS
Definitely fits in the payroll and lots of contct with speed, except McCann and Freeman…lol Not a lot of big name mashers so I am sure no one likes this line-up.
Efrim
October 11th, 2012
8:57 pm
Nate McLouth. Can’t make this stuff up. Good for him.
MiaBchBravesFan
October 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
Put Nate in a Braves’ uni and watch him stink up the place.
Bobby Cerasuolo
October 11th, 2012
9:22 pm
I don’t think this will happen but if it does it will be awesome
Trade Freeman and Pastornicky to KC for Billy Butler
Have Smoltz and Maddux teach Hanson on how to be a pitcher
Trade Uggla Lipka and Terdo to TB for Sean Rodriguez and Ben Francisco
trade Juan Francisco to Oak for Inge
Sign Upton to a 5 year 75 million
Sign Grienke to a 5yr 85 million
lineup
Francisco LF
Prado 2nd
Heyward RF
Butler 1st
McCann C
Upton CF
Simmons SS
Rodriguez 2nd
Gone Viral
October 11th, 2012
9:25 pm
Can we start calling JR Graham “Moonlight”?
nolie
October 11th, 2012
9:32 pm
y’alll need to pay more attention, I been talking about McNate’s Oriole Odyssey for weeks.
ncgary
October 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
that brings to mind a musical selection entitled
dreamer silly little dreamer
have you got your…………