Braves have 2 big needs, and the means to fill them

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P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:47 pm

RC-

Votto has no power, so I doubt he could anyways….he needs to get on and let Ludwick or Bruce do what they do best

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:48 pm

RC-

Does Tommy Hanson seem like he has the IQ to do that to you?

Houston, I think we have a problem here

Scared to even touch this one….

I’ll just say that it doesn’t appear he’s made the adjustments up to this point. Only time will tell if he does in the future.

On another note, things just go interesting in Cincinnati.

O.M.G.

October 11th, 2012
4:48 pm

P-town, I agree 100%, but the question still remains is that just us or is that league average and now Shaun says data is meaningless. LOL

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
4:49 pm

The Reds want this!

Tumbledown

October 11th, 2012
4:49 pm

P-town – That external fixator device looks most unpleasant. Kudos for getting through that torture. I hope it did the trick.

It looks like the Reds may become the first team ever to lose the final three games of a five-game series at home.

It’s a bit sad that I take some solace from other team’s suffering ignominious defeats in the playoffs. It is all your fault, Jim Leyritz, for hardening my sporting heart!

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:50 pm

RC-

Just like Francoeur….not sure there’s a whole lot goin on upstairs….

Or any other metaphor you can think of ;-)

And yes it did….they’re a Jay Bruce walkoff bomb from a SERIOUS riot in Cincy

ncscoots

October 11th, 2012
4:50 pm

If that’s the case, he’s going to have to learn to pitch with the stuff he has instead of the stuff he used to have.

He might be caught in between. If he tries to rotate fully through his shoulder, he hurts it to the same point that he did last year and can’t pitch, period. Less, and the other problems with his mechanics (stride and timing) keep him mainly an arm thrower, just with less arm. Without seeing the medicals and hearing from a doc, who knows?

Murph

October 11th, 2012
4:50 pm

Giants fans are starting to squirm a bit

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:50 pm

Can’t believe Jay Bruce is just 25….seems like he’s been around forever.

keyLargo

October 11th, 2012
4:50 pm

Don’t know much about this Graham kid but after watching Hanson and his struggles reaching 90 mph I’m pretty excited for a kid who can reach mid-90’s consistently.

I hate to bring it up but Hanson was widely talked about with his mid to upper 90’s fastball. Something happened though. 10 mph got lost.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:51 pm

87 mph FB….

Isn’t exactly like Romo is blowin em away is he

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 11th, 2012
4:51 pm

Outside of July, Juan Francisco didn’t hit well. Under .200 in 3 months, under .250 every month but July. Slugged over .400 just twice. An OPS over .800 once. (minimum of 23 ABs a month)

And so far in his young career, he has only hit finesse pitchers well (over .240 avg, .400 slugging)

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:52 pm

Just like Francoeur….not sure there’s a whole lot goin on upstairs….

He’s so smart in some ways….and so willfully ignorant in others :s

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:53 pm

If I threw from that arm slot, my arm would hurt too….

ncscoots

October 11th, 2012
4:53 pm

but after watching Hanson and his struggles reaching 90 mph

shoot, Hanson has plenty of company on this staff, LOL. All of ‘em have to muscle up to hit 90.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:54 pm

RC-

He was a bit different in that he always seemed to me like his head was in the clouds….

Hanson on the other hand looks as though its crickets and hollow sounds….just a Cletus type look

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
4:55 pm

You know, if you close your eyes and listen to Joe Simpson…..it kinda feels like we’re in this thing. :)

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
4:56 pm

Enter your comments here

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:56 pm

It was the “football mentality” that killed Francoeur. You can’t play baseball that way for a long period of time.

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:57 pm

Geez, this AB is insane. I want to go home….but can’t walk away.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:57 pm

Mixxo-

I can’t get past Joe Simpson telling me the fans in ATL were an embarrassment and should be ashamed of themselves for the WC Game incident….

Lost quite a bit of respect for Joe that day coming off like an crotchety old fart

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
4:57 pm

Jay Bruce……professional baseball player.

ncscoots

October 11th, 2012
4:58 pm

Wow. This is some AB.

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
4:58 pm

Shaun, now who is not willing to look at the data. If the data proves we stike out more then league average I would think that would be meaningful.

Their OPS overall was .709. Braves’ OPS with RISP was .697. OPS with no one on was .702. OPS with runner on was .718.

Braves K rate overall was 21%.
Bases empty: 22.1%.
Men on base: 19.7%
RISP: 19.2%

The Braves were in the middle of the pack in K rate with RISP.

They were a little above average overall.

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
4:59 pm

I think Simpson is an excellent “baseball man.”

Murph

October 11th, 2012
4:59 pm

Great AB there from Bruce.

Sopheee

October 11th, 2012
4:59 pm

What an AB by Bruce. Jeebers.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
4:59 pm

The Scott Rolen Retirement AB?

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
5:00 pm

Maybe this ‘old’ 3rd baseman will deliver?

Tumbledown

October 11th, 2012
5:00 pm

Can Rolen make up for his error in Game 3?

old man

October 11th, 2012
5:04 pm

Gosh, I sure go up and down on these things. Check me tomorrow, but right now I think:

1. We don’t need to focus on pitching unless something falls in our laps.
2. Take Mac’s option, only because it will take us a year to fill that gap.
3. Put Uggla at 2B in April. Only because no one will take him and he MIGHT come around. God, I hate saying that. I would sure love to have Prado at 2B. THAT’S Prado’s natural position.
4. Do not underrate Francisco. I could really see him making a push at 3B, which puts Prado in LF again.
5. Get a LFer. Willingham would be great. They will ask for a ton.
6. I like the Pagan idea. Agree Bourne will be too expensive. We could really use a pinch hitter.

old man

October 11th, 2012
5:04 pm

Gosh, I sure go up and down on these things. Check me tomorrow, but right now I think:

1. We don’t need to focus on pitching unless something falls in our laps.
2. Take Mac’s option, only because it will take us a year to fill that gap.
3. Put Uggla at 2B in April. Only because no one will take him and he MIGHT come around. God, I hate saying that. I would sure love to have Prado at 2B. THAT’S Prado’s natural position.
4. Do not underrate Francisco. I could really see him making a push at 3B, which puts Prado in LF again.
5. Get a LFer. Willingham would be great. They will ask for a ton.
6. I like the Pagan idea. Agree Bourne will be too expensive. We could really use a pinch hitter.

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
5:04 pm

Celebrating on the opposing team’s turf?

Yeah, we know what that’s like alright.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
5:04 pm

Shaun -

I had them for 23.5% w/ RISP…but I guess that was before I realized they changed K rate from the original K/AB to K/PA

Half Empty

October 11th, 2012
5:04 pm

Votto has no power??

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:06 pm

P-Town Brave, I’m using FanGraphs’ data. I’m sure it’s K/PA on there.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
5:06 pm

To put it into context, a K rate higher than 20% is considered below average headed towards poor….

I’d imagine as a team, you’d want to get closer to 17-18%

Sopheee

October 11th, 2012
5:06 pm

Welcome to the club, Cinci fans.

Half Empty

October 11th, 2012
5:06 pm

Prado is not as good at second as he is at third or LF, just because he came up as one does not make it his best position

BravePack(FreeFan)

October 11th, 2012
5:07 pm

RC

October 11th, 2012
4:24 pm
Don’t know much about this Graham kid but after watching Hanson and his struggles reaching 90 mph I’m pretty excited for a kid who can reach mid-90’s consistently.

Not to damper your hopes too much, but when Hanson was at the level Graham is he was reaching the mid-90’s consistently too. It don’t last forever….

Don’t worry my spirits won’t be dampened as I know a thing or 2 about the game and pitching mechanics. I know when I saw a 6′ 6″ tall pitcher throwing the way Hanson does I was surprised he was even able to reach low 90’s let alone stay there. Only a matter of time before he had arm/shoulder issues. Plus he doesn’t seem like the most motivated guy out there to stay in tip-top shape.

This Graham kid however is listed at 6′0″ and has a small compact delivery…ideal for velocity. Kind of like a certain closer we all know and love.

Fredo

October 11th, 2012
5:07 pm

that was an ugly choke Reds, 3 games at home after winning 2 on the road and you couldn’t win any of them

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
5:08 pm

Didn’t we own the Giants in the reg season?

We’re great…..in the reg season. :)

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
5:08 pm

That choke rivals ours!

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:10 pm

Half Empty, Votto didn’t hit a homer after returning from his knee injury. Though I think he on-based in the .500’s.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
5:11 pm

FWIW, we had quite a few guys that would be outstanding hitters if they only cut down their K rate IMO…

Michael Bourn a prime example, who was a whopping 74 points ahead of his actual batting average when he put the ball in play

Puma

October 11th, 2012
5:11 pm

Mixxo – Braves have always been great in regular season. Come to think of it, so have the Falcons of late…maybe its an Atl thing

brian

October 11th, 2012
5:14 pm

would you do Delgado and Gilmartin for Gordon?

Half Empty

October 11th, 2012
5:14 pm

he also ended up with 44 doubles in less than 380 at bats I think,

Half Empty

October 11th, 2012
5:16 pm

low K rate does not necessarily mean a better hitter, and lowering one’s K rate would not guarantee that a player would be better. There are plenty of crappy hitters who do not strike out all the time

Mixxo

October 11th, 2012
5:17 pm

Puma – Must be. I know of no other major city that has failed in big games as much as this one.

Braves are 0-9 in the last nine elimination games. Never seen a choke-fest as bad as that…..ever.

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
5:17 pm

Ok, I’m out for the day guys….

Gotta get some more work done….

See ya tomorrow….thank God its Friday!

brian

October 11th, 2012
5:19 pm

if the Braves could get Gordon or Willingham in LF and Pagan or Bourjos in CF we will be a significantly better team next year.

I still think the Braves are more likely to deal Delgado than Teheran in any trade. The Braves will keep Hanson as the 5th starter to start the season then deal him at the trade deadline if there is any value there. If Teheran picks up his late season success adding the slider and continues to develop he will be ready by mid-season. I would not completely count on an effective Beachy until 2014 but he probably will be able to contribute after the all star break – maybe out of the bullpen in his return.

Johnson is a must for the bench. Janish and Pastornicky are solid IF bench players especially if Pastornicky continues his super utility development. Need one big bat off the bench to replace Hinske

P-Town Brave ©

October 11th, 2012
5:19 pm

Half Empty-

No but I mean Jeebus….we have a few guys that performed ridiculously better when they made contact….

And w/ Bourn I could see that because of his speed and w/ JHey I could see that because of his power/speed combo…

It’d be something that would be noticed less w/ say a McCann because of his abilities or a Prado who already hits well enough as is….

I still think its an indicative of some guys needing to shorten their swing or knowing situations better

Puma

October 11th, 2012
5:23 pm

Does anyone know a good place to see a list of free agents? My google searches have only brought up old lists from like last year.

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:25 pm

Votto was clearly not 100%.

Welcome to the club, Cinci fans.

It’s a shame. Basically everyone in the NL just has a sour taste in their mouths unless you’re a Phils, Giants, or Cards fan. It seems as if those three teams have owned the last 7 years in this league.

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:25 pm

old man

October 11th, 2012
5:26 pm

If you look at the power need, the RH bat need, Willingham and Pagan make the most sense. Who said that first? Oh yeah, it was DOB. Forgot about that Dave. I guess it was a well thought-out article.

Peter R.

October 11th, 2012
5:28 pm

I think the Braves should use the money to sign a quality cleanup hitter. Whether they have money to find a new leadoff hitter and find the money for a cleanup guy remains to be seen. In my opinion, get rid of McCann spend the money, which would then be 11.5 million + 22 million = 33.5 million dollars or so. Then use 5-6.5 million of that to replace the catcher(s). Then the use remaining 27 million to get someone to bat cleanup for 15-17 million and then use 10-12 million to find a new lead off hitter. That leaves the Braves with enough wiggle room to make the offense productive again. I know Mac leads in nearly offensively for a catcher but last year he showed signs of a major slow down (with the lone bright spot in July), and we DOB might like to keep him because he’s a nice dude, but lets be realistic, that’s a huge drop off in production. I think the money might be better spent on someone else. If he produced then sure, but nevertheless I don’t like the idea of spending big money to sign a catcher long term because out of all the positions in baseball, I think the catching position is the most liable to incur injury. So even if you get money for insurance, the money still isn’t preforming and you have to make a trade in the middle of the year. So, in my opinion, he can just go play for the Tampa Rays for all I care. If Fuggly improves and the Braves make the right moves then they’ll be in good shape provided that Hudson doesn’t come back and suck, same with Maholm, who is a good pitcher to have for your 4 or 5 guy. 2 lefties is pretty win for the Braves. I’m glad we have quality left handed pitching. At least they have some flexibility to move the pieces around say if Prado plays left instead of third. Too bad we can’t get Adrian Beltre, Carlos Beltran, or Matt Holliday. I don’t think Hamilton is worth the money. He’ll just flip out about Jesus randomly in the middle of May and cost the Braves a couple of wins. If Chipper was making like 8 million a year I wouldn’t care, but the Braves GM was dumb and gave him all that money. I looked at the Braves this past season like they had a 65 million payroll because 10 million went to Lowe and Chipper perform for about 7 million. Be realistic man! I know you’re a huge fan, but if you want to win a championship, then shake things up and make changes. The offense sucked and Mac was a blackhole in the lineup.

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:28 pm

Willingham and Pagan have been discussed here way B4 DOD wrote that article,

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:28 pm

And when was the last time a team with a sub-100 million dollar payroll won the World Series? 2006?

And when was the last time that a team with a sub-90 million dollar payroll won the World Series? 2003?

Jeff R

October 11th, 2012
5:30 pm

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:31 pm

2012 – Cardinals/Giants/Nationals
2011 – Cardinals
2010 – Giants
2009 – Phillies
2008 – Phillies
2007 – Rockies
2006 – Cardinals
2005 – Astros
2004 – Cardinals
2003 – Marlins
2002 – Giants

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:31 pm

Exactly, Go Cards!!!

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:32 pm

P-Town Brave, I think in many, probably most, cases if a hitter made a conscious effort to lower his K-rate, he would become a worse hitter. Hitting the ball with authority matters a lot, especially in today’s game. Mere contact is not good enough. Throw in the fact that there are so many specialty pitchers, I think it’s difficult for many hitters to succeed and keep their K rate rather low. Only the superior talents are capable, in today’s game.

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:34 pm

And when was the last time a team with a sub-100 million dollar payroll won the World Series? 2006?

And when was the last time that a team with a sub-90 million dollar payroll won the World Series? 2003?

Yes, but they often dominate in third order wins… plus the can all brag about being shrewd GM’s getting value on the dollar. That’s actually my favorite Braves t-shirt. Wear it all the time.

Jeff R

October 11th, 2012
5:34 pm

Double go Cards! ;)

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:34 pm

I think there is accumulated stress from all the years of failure in the postseason that makes some players try to hard, since PS teams are often fairly equal it does take much to lose

Tumbledown

October 11th, 2012
5:35 pm

Efrim – Basically everyone in the NL just has a sour taste in their mouths unless you’re a Phils, Giants, or Cards fan.

Phils’ fans probably have a bit of a sour taste as well. Given their pitching staff, the Phils probably could have done more in their five playoff appearances from 2007 through 2011. Still, from our perspective, they did quite well.

Puma

October 11th, 2012
5:35 pm

Thanks, nolie, perfect

gail paul smith

October 11th, 2012
5:35 pm

We need David Ross & Brian McCann. !! Fantastic team of Catchers !!! I thi Michael Bourne really let us down with his Bat ! Prado is probably the best player we have! He performs well no matter where he plays ! Love Dan Uggla but he’s definitly got to deal with his batting ! Can’t loose Freddie Freeman or Jason Hayward . But Jason has got to get his bat going . THe biggest prolem I seeis most of the players can only hit one kind of throw ???? I love the Braves & I know. They can do it !!

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:36 pm

Go American League!

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:37 pm

Go American League!

You are dead to me.

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:38 pm

BOOOOO!!! American League

Hugo Z Hackenbush

October 11th, 2012
5:39 pm

The Giants’ opening day payoll in 2010 was 96 mil. So what’s the problem? We’re not spending enough?

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:39 pm

TennesseePaul, teams that are good over the long haul (not just one month) should be able to brag. I guess you are taking the Robert path. The Braves’ accomplishments mean nothing, Bobby Cox is the root of all evil, because they didn’t win enough to your liking in October, they just won over the long haul of regular seasons.

cricket

October 11th, 2012
5:40 pm

DH for everybody!!

Trader Jack

October 11th, 2012
5:40 pm

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:36 pm

Go American League!

Traitor!

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:42 pm

I guess you are taking the Robert path…

See! Right there. You just did it. Right there. You created a strawman and began berating him. You made assumptions and began trashing those assumptions you made. You do it all the time.

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:42 pm

Yes, but they often dominate in third order wins… plus the can all brag about being shrewd GM’s getting value on the dollar. That’s actually my favorite Braves t-shirt. Wear it all the time.

If I were a Rangers fan, I would brag, knowing my team was one of the best. Hopefully most people would be smart enough to realize this is true, in spite of what happened in a few Octobers.

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:42 pm

Somebody stomp on that cricket that is chirping AL propaganda

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:44 pm

TennesseePaul, kind of like you assuming that building a good team is not something to brag about, only winning in October. Well, I don’t know if that is assumption or you are just not aware of how baseball works.

Efrim

October 11th, 2012
5:44 pm

You are dead to me.

I can’t watch another Cardinals storm the field again. With their luck, Nick Swisher or some other RF will drop a flyball like Cruz did last year.

Same with the Giants and Nationals.

Maybe the Padres, or Brewers or some other teams can step up. Hell, maybe the Braves?!?!?!?!?

Murph

October 11th, 2012
5:44 pm

I’m rooting for the A’s. To hell with the Cards/Nats/Giants.

In the end all I really care about is the Yankees not winning.

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:44 pm

If I were a Rangers fan, I would brag

Really? You can’t do this as a Braves fan, but only as a Rangers fan?

BravePack(FreeFan)

October 11th, 2012
5:45 pm

brian

October 11th, 2012
5:14 pm
would you do Delgado and Gilmartin for Gordon?

I’m not sure that would be enough. I hope it would be but can see them wanting more.

I love all this talk of Willingham because it only solidifies what I’ve been saying all along…not going to happen(thank God). When was the last time DOB or a blogger predicted a trade for someone that has been discussed on the blog to death came true?

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:45 pm

RIP Efrim….

Hugo Z Hackenbush

October 11th, 2012
5:45 pm

And the White Sox won in 2005 with a payroll of 75 mil. Is it that hard to look this stuff up?

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:46 pm

kind of like you assuming that building a good team is not something to brag about..I don’t know if that is assumption or you are just not aware of how baseball works.

It’s like you just can’t quit. The habit is just etched into your bones…

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:47 pm

TennesseePaul, well, right now I think the Rangers are one of the best franchises in the game. Unfortunately right now I don’t think that’s the case with the Braves.

But, sure, I’ll brag on the Braves for what they accomplished in the 1990’s and early 2000’s, hoping that folks understand that randomness plays a huge role in which team wins in the postseason. But some don’t want to hear that because they unfortunately don’t realize the role randomness plays in baseball.

Murph

October 11th, 2012
5:47 pm

When was the last time DOB or a blogger predicted a trade for someone that has been discussed on the blog to death came true?

One person predicted the Uggla trade, down to the exact players involved, although I can’t remember who. I doubt they’d stand and be recognized now, though.

cricket

October 11th, 2012
5:48 pm

imagine this infomercial – if you really love baseball, why limit it to a 3 hr game? add DH and extend your viewing pleasure to 4 hours

Shaun

October 11th, 2012
5:49 pm

Add a DH and not have to watch a pitcher hit. That’s better.

BravePack(FreeFan)

October 11th, 2012
5:49 pm

Despite what DOB says I have a feeling Wren will check in on Hamilton. Just a feeling.

TennesseePaul

October 11th, 2012
5:50 pm

One person predicted the Uggla trade, down to the exact players involved…

I think AT shot him.

Disgusted

October 11th, 2012
5:51 pm

Angel Pagan is better than Bourn from what we saw in the second half.

I like him and he should be affordable. Stay way from cheap alternatives like Ben Revere and Peter Bourjos.

Willingham should have two more good yrs left — he would be a perfect fit.

Uggla cannot possibly be as bad as he was this yr.

I am not sold on Simmons yet — not after that bad game he had in the WC game. He deserves to be Booed on opening day.

nolie

October 11th, 2012
5:52 pm

I don’t think Wren will give Hamilton a single thought

Klaus

October 11th, 2012
5:52 pm

I am usually wrong about most Braves moves and drool over trades they cannot make LOL. But I am with Lew on Juan Francisco. Give him a chance and remember Wren tried to trade for Juan the previous season. He actually likes this guy but saw him as raw (hence the short leash). He is only 25-26yo with upper deck power.

If he gets in shape over the winter and is told 3B is his to lose he may show us something. Heck if Pastornicky can ST play (badly) his way into starting at SS Juan sure as sh_t can for 3B.

If he shows up like the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man and boots balls at 3B you have Prado to slide in and you make a trade for a LF.

Willingham is staying in Cleveland. He loves the team and the location. With Francona there expect a renewed sense of optimism.

Also at 34 I want no part of a guy hitting out of his shoes bc invariably it will be short lived.

BJ Upton by January if not sooner then nothing until ST is 60% done is my guess.

Pick up the expected options, dangle Uggla out there and see if anyone bites (they wont) and rebuild the bench seems like possible outcomes this winter.

Since Wren is usually shopping for help during mid to late ST it would not surprise me to see him get a CF and do nothing else until mid March.

If Juan is hitting the cover off the ball in ST and playing a serviceable 3B he will get the nod and make Wren’s life a whole lot easier. Prado will play LF, 3B and 2B next year with some time at SS.

That said I don’t think they will extend him at 10-12mm a year as some has projected for that type fo a gig.

Disgusted

October 11th, 2012
5:54 pm

And the White Sox won in 2005 with a payroll of 75 mil. Is it that hard to look this stuff up?

@Hugo — That payroll is horse bleep in today’s market. We are in inflationary times compared to 2005. In baseball salary terms, that is a long time ago.

BravePack(FreeFan)

October 11th, 2012
5:54 pm

Really Murph? I was an everyday regular when that trade went down and don’t remember anyone predicting that, especially down to the players involved. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just think I’d remember something like that.

cricket

October 11th, 2012
5:54 pm

Despite what DOB says I have a feeling Wren will check in on Hamilton.

Wren is a sponsor with Tobaccoholic Not-At-All-Anonymous?

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