Wren discusses Braves’ future, offseason to-do list

Fifteen hours after the Braves lost 6-3 against St. Louis in the single-game Wild Card playoff game, Atlanta general manager Frank Wren discussed the abrupt end to the season, as well as plans for the offseason and what he believes is a bright future for the organization.

Wren (left) says goodbye to retiring Braves icon Chipper Jones on Saturday, the morning after the Wild Card game loss. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

Wren (left) says goodbye to retiring Braves icon Chipper Jones on Saturday, the morning after the Wild Card game loss. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

Can you describe the feeling the next day after losing like the Braves did in the Wild Card game?

Wren: “Probably a one-word description is emptiness. I think we’ve talked all season long that we had a real good team and had a chance to take it into the postseason and do well. How well? You never know. That you understand that’s kind of the laws of baseball. But we had a chance to do well. I probably went into [this] postseason game as relaxed and at ease as I’ve gone into any in a long time, because I felt like we were ready to play. We had played well in September and felt like we had the right guy on the mound. We had everything going in our direction. And then you don’t make the plays defensively in postseason, it’ll bite you. And that’s what beat us.”

Did this game show what some view as an inherent flaw in the Wild Card single-game playoff?

“All of us at the general managers meeting when we talked about this format, it’s not a format that’s indicative of the best team. When you’re playing for six months and 162 games, this is not a sport where you play 20 games. This is not a sport where you play a handful of games, and then one game is appropriate. This is a sport where it’s about series, it’s about winning series. And one game is kind of a harsh reality.”

Could you see Major League Baseball tweaking the format?

“I think there’s a lot of people that love it. They love the drama. They’re not sitting where we’re sitting this morning. They love the drama, and I understand that. I’ve watched those 163rd games over the years and thought about, this is baseball drama at its best. I’ve also seen a real good friend of mine, David Dombrowski, play in one of those games a couple of years ago, and see what a crushing defeat it is. It’s a little bit different, that being a tie at the end of the season and a 163rd game. Postseason is supposed to be different.”

“Really what came down to the crux of the problem when we discussed it at the general managers level – obviously this is a decision made above the general managers level – but you don’t want to disadvantage the division winners as well, by having them sit. Because in many cases — and we’ve experienced it with the Braves over the years, where we clinched on the 20th of September and you’re now getting your team ready, and you lose that edge — well now all of a sudden you sit four or five days to play your first playoff game, there’s a good chance to lose your edge. So it’s a difficult fix, to say the least.”

Thinking outside the box, could they perhaps play a three-game Wild Card series in two days?

Braves fans littered the field with plastic bottles and other garbage after the controversial infield-fly ruling went against them in the eighth inning of the Wild Card loss to St. Louis.  (Curtis Compton photo/AJC)

Braves fans littered the field with plastic bottles and other garbage after the controversial infield-fly ruling went against them in the eighth inning of the Wild Card loss to St. Louis. (Curtis Compton photo/AJC)

“That’s one off the things we discussed at the general managers meetings, make it a best two-out-of-three and play a split doubleheader the first day. I think all of us would prefer that. I mean, if you’re playing a team that’s got Randy Johnson — they really don’t have much else, but they’ve got Randy Johnson – you’re likely going to lose. But that same team is going to go into the playoffs and get swept.

“I guess it’s trying to fit everything into a neat little package that may not fit very well.”

On the infield-fly rule, do you think there might be a time where they change it, maybe say you can’t go more than 200 feet out, put a line down or something?

“I don’t know. It really comes down to umpire’s judgement. There’s always case studies after things happen, and usually it takes something like this for it to be studied further. I can’t remember, and I’ve been in the game 34 years, I can’t remember an infield fly rule having this big of an impact, and being talked about. So there’s a first time for everything.

“But that’s not the reason we lost the ballgame. We didn’t lose the ballgame because of that call. We lost the ballgame because we didn’t make routine plays. We had three of them that came back and bit us. And that’s not indicative of the way we played all year long. We played pretty sound baseball all year long. If there was any question about our club over the course of the season, it was would we be consistent enough offensively. And what did we end up with, 12 hits [in the Wild Card game]? If we make plays we win the game 2-1 or 3-1. They score one run. I know they end up getting more earned runs than that, because you can’t assume a double play. But they shouldn’t have scored.”

A year ago when you fired hitting coach Larry Parrish, you talked about requiring a better approach at the plate from hitters. Were you satisfied with the approach in the first season under new hitting coach Greg Walker and assistant Scott Fletcher?

“Very much so. I think we started from the beginning of spring training with a real battling approach. You look at early in the season, I thought up until the All-Star break we did a really good job of that. I think that kind of whittled away a little bit in the second half, and Greg will tell you that. And it’s not because he stopped preaching it. I think hitters will sometimes get less patient.

“But we saw a lot of games where we got the other team’s starter up around 100 pitches in the fifth inning. And that’s the goal. That’s the goal, to make them pitch and make them make their pitches to get you out. And I thought we did a very good job of that throughout the year, and I think it’s only going to get better. Because there’s a lot of nights where we’ve got three or four young hitters in that lineup, and as they learn their craft and become more patient, look for a better pitch, they’re just going to get that much better.”

Could that decline in patience in second half also have contributed to the team’s reduced average when hitting with runners in scoring position? (The Braves finished the season tied for last in the majors with a .231 average with runners in scoring position.)

“I think there’s probably no coincidence. Because when you get over-anxious as a hitter, you really fall into the strategy of the pitcher, because he’s going to try to get you out with his pitch. And especially with runners in scoring position, they’re not going to serve you something over the middle of the plate, unless it’s a mistake. You’ve got to make them come to you. And usually, that’s not swinging at the first pitch.”

Going into this offseason, obviously you’ve got significant holes to fill with Chipper Jones retiring and the Michael Bourn free-agent situation. What’s this kind of offseason like for you as a GM?

“I feel like this is a more focused offseason. I’m looking forward to it, because I think there’s a narrower focus with what we need. We have a lot of good young players in place. We’ve got to determine what we do it center field, and that kind of couples with leadoff. Center field/leadoff. And then how we replace Chipper. And beyond that, our club’s pretty solid. So it’s a fairly narrow focus.

“I think the exciting part for all of us is we’ve got a dynamic young core. We’ve got three young guys that were in that lineup [for the Wild Card game] that have a chance to be All-Star players and have a chance to be leaders of this team for a long time. And the bullpen’s intact, our starting rotation’s intact. There’s a lot of things that are real positive going into next year. And guys are going to get better. We’ve got a very young pitching staff, and we’ve got some dynamic young pitchers that are just on the horizon who have a chance to be good.

“I’m very optimistic about where we sit as a franchise, with the thought of adding a couple of key pieces.”

Do you think Brian McCann is going to be fine after surgery?

Brian McCann struggled with injuries in the second half of the season and could face shoulder surgery and several months of recovery. The Braves hold a $12 million option on his contract for 2013. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

Brian McCann struggled with injuries in the second half of the season and could face shoulder surgery and several months of recovery. The Braves hold a $12 million option on his contract for 2013. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

“I think we first have to determine if surgery is necessary. And that hasn’t been determined yet. So I think there will be some testing to determine if surgery is necessary.

How about the contract options for him and others? (The Braves hold 2013 team options for McCann, at $12 million, and starting pitchers Tim Hudson, $9 million, and Paul Maholm, $6.5 million.)

“We haven’t talked about options, picking up options. We haven’t talked about any of that stuff yet. We’ll do that over the next weeks.”

What’s the deadline for picking up those options?

“I think it’s within three days after the World Series.”

Is it too early to determine how realistic a chance there is of re-signing Bourn, given the market?

“Yes, it is. Michael’s situation is, we made contact with his agent in spring training to start negotiations, and they were not prepared to negotiate at that point, and said they would prefer to wait until after the season. We made it clear to Michael that we want him back, that we’d love to have him back. But we also know there’s a process in place.”

A year ago you had four young pitchers you considered nearly untouchable in terms of trades. How is that situation now?

“We’ve got a good handle on the inventory of pitchers we have. We still like our young pitchers a lot, so that hasn’t changed. I think the opportunities were there for them to get their feet wet. In the case of [Randall] Delgado, I think he got a number of starts in the middle of the season and I think he saw some things that both he and we realized he continued to develop.

“Julio Teheran, in his case he got off track for about two-thirds of the minor league season, and in the month of August he got back on track and was dynamic and outstanding again. So we’re looking forward to him – they’re both pitching winter ball in the Dominican Republic, and we’re looking forward to them continuing that development. But they’re still guys that we value a lot, and so if we’re going to have any [trade] discussions it’s going to be for a very, very big piece.”

Now that you have more cash available, do you look beyond cheaper options to fill holes?

“We may shop at a different store.” [Laughter.]

So instead of Walgreen’s or Wal-Mart….

“We may go up the street to Target.” [Wren laughs; he was joking.]

“No, we have the [financial] ability. We’re losing one Hall of Fame player, and the salary that goes with a Hall of Fame player. And we’re going to be looking to replace him. And as we do that, it gives us an opportunity to add another big player. And we’ll see what happens with Michael Bourn. We’d love to keep him and hope we do keep him.

“That being said, there are not a lot of pieces out there in the free-agent market this year that are all that appealing. So we might have to look other places.”

Regarding the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, does having the extra wild-card team in each league make teams approach roster building differently and/or make fewer team willing to trade in the offseason, or in July because they’re still in playoff contention?

“The trade deadline is pretty early right now for the current system we have. I’m not sure people are going to be courting for the Wild Card in October-November-December. I think what they’re going to be trying to do is build a division winner, so I think it’s still the same concept in offseason team-building. I think it changes in-season.”

When would you like to see the trade deadline moved to?

“I almost think it should be probably Aug. 15. As late as possible. Fifteen days is probably about as far as you can move it.”

We’ll you be on the free-agent market like you were in, say, 2009, when you pursued A.J. Burnett and others and signed Derek Lowe?

Kris Medlen (left) get a bat signed by Tim Hudson the day after the Wild Card loss. Medlen will anchor the rotation in 2013, and the Braves have a reasonable $9 million option on Hudson's contract. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

Kris Medlen (left) get a bat signed by Tim Hudson the day after the Wild Card loss. Medlen will anchor the rotation in 2013, and the Braves have a reasonable $9 million option on Hudson's contract. (Phil Skinner photo/AJC)

“We’re going to be looking for premium players, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. But a couple of things we’re always mindful of. We’re mindful of, we’re putting a team together. We’re not trying to put a player on this team. And so that’s our overriding philosophy of putting a good team together – if we think we can add two players that give us more than one player, we’re going to do that.

“So we’re not going to go outrageous salary-wise. We’ve seen that time after time bite teams in the butt, so we’re not going to play that game.”

How do you view Martin Prado? (Prado can be a free agent after 2013 season.)

“I see Martin as a real valuable player on this team, a real solid player on this team. He’s a Brave. He cares about this organization, he cares about the team. I think the good thing for us is we were able to get him through a full season without him starting to break down. I think he’s a hard guy to get through a season because he wants to play every day. The season just wears him down, and this year he got through it and was still a real solid performer and producer right until the end.

“The other part of is, he can do a lot of things for your team. Those are all things over the next few weeks, as we start having our organizational meetings and we talk about how our team comes together, I’ll meet with Fredi and the coaching staff early next week and we’ll go through our team and evaluate our team and talk about their view of how we configure for next year. And we’ll start putting plans in place based on that.”

Could you see Prado as a leadoff option?

“I think he is your absolute prototypical No. 2 hitter. I think that’s who he is. I think he’s really good in that role. It would be … it would be OK [for him to hit leadoff], but it wouldn’t be great.”

What’s his best position?

“It would probably be in the infield, either second or third. I mean, the ideal situation for him. But that’s the hard part, because you don’t necessarily get to go out on the market and get the perfect guy for your team. So we’ll have to see how that all plays out.”

Could Jason Heyward be an option to play center field?

“For a few days. We think he’s arguably the best right fielder out there, and I think it would diminish him if we played him in center field. I think it would diminish his defensive value. And that’s one of the things we talk about a lot – we were really good in the outfield. We turned a lot of balls into outs, and part of that was his play in right field, and I don’t think it’s the same in center.”

Wren said Jason Heyward matured more than any player he could remember. The Braves don't have any intention of moving him to center field even if Michael Bourn isn't re-signed. (Brent Sanderlin photo/AJC)

Wren said Jason Heyward matured more than any player he could remember. The Braves don't have any intention of moving him to center field even if Michael Bourn isn't re-signed. (Brent Sanderlin photo/AJC)

Because he’s so big and muscular, is it better to not have him in center field where might be more likely to get hurt running around and diving so much?

“I just think Jason probably matured as a player more than anyone I’ve seen in a long time. And I think leaving him alone, putting him in a position where he excels and is performing at a high level, and know that’s his home, and not have to wonder where he’s going to play.”

Is it too early to say (backup catcher) David Ross will be re-signed, do you have to wait to see how that market develops?

“Rossy’s been a big part of this team for the last three or four years since he’s been here. A real valuable guy in that backup role, and we’ll continue to hopefully have him back. He did a heckuva job [in the Wild Card game]. Got us off to the lead, which, most of the time in a playoff game, you get off to that 2-nothing lead, with the way we’ve played most of the year, you’re going to win that game. And that’s really, I think, probably the biggest disappointment. We had that 2-nothing lead, now you get that double-play ball and you’re going to get through the big part of their lineup unscathed, and it doesn’t happen…

“I think the way he’s used [in the backup] role, he’s handled it really well. The thing about David, the days he plays he gives you a lift. He calls a good game, he obviously still can throw with anyone, as far as having a quick release and accurate, and has a knack of getting that big extra-base hit. Almost every time he starts, you’re looking for a double or a home run or something out of him. And if he doesn’t do that, he gives you a good bunt.”

Going back to McCann and the cyst in his shoulder, so there’s a possibility that can heal without having it removed surgically?

“From what we know today, it would not be a surgical repair. But because during the season we can’t do the MRI with [dye] injection — because you’re [sidelined] too long — once he has the MRI and we know totally and we get the medical report on it… But for what we know now, the prescribed treatment is rest.”

Between the shoulder and the knee he really struggled this season.

“He had tendinitis [knee]. He had an MRI the other day and the knee was clean. It was tendinitis, and if you get raging tendinitis in a joint, it can be very painful. And so he was battling that and he was battling the shoulder, and unfortunately with the shoulder, the only thing that can help it is rest. And during the course of the season you’re never going to get enough rest to get it turned around. We may find out with the MRI with contrast that there’s more going on in there. So that’s one of the things we need to find out.”

The Braves didn’t get Dan Uggla to be a No. 7 hitter….

“We got him to be a run-producer, and I think we always saw him as a 5 or 6 hitter. That’s what we hoped we were getting, that’s what we thought we were getting. And I think we feel like, in the course of the last month, some progress was made in helping him stay more consistent. And so if that’s the case, we’ll be in good shape. We really do feel like there were some diagnostics done as to what got him out of whack over that summer period. So hopefully that doesn’t happen again, but if it does happen again I think we can shorten the time.”

Fredi [Gonzalez] said all the coaches all being asked back. So they’ll all return?

“We’re going to offer them the opportunity to come back. If they choose not to … I can’t answer that.”

You’re at a crossroads with (struggling starting pitcher Jair) Jurrjens, but what about (Tommy) Hanson, is that case a little different?

“That’s different. I think with J.J. will have a determination this winter as to what happens with him. But Tommy won 13 games and pitched very well early in the season. At the end of the season his outings got a little shortened. If we can help him from a stamina standpoint, getting stronger, I think that would help correct a lot of that.”

1,736 comments Add your comment

Disgusted

October 8th, 2012
5:02 pm

The future once again is to wait till next yr & they will find a way to disappoint again.

They even might make another WC run only to bow down early in post season again.

There is NO HOPE. The Braves cannot do it. Don’t matter who wears this uniform.

And Hanson is lazy, second rate pitcher who needs to pitch in a league that ends in July.

Darryl Blackberry

October 8th, 2012
5:10 pm

Stamina was not Tommy’s issue. Lack of a good fastball was.

DHD

October 8th, 2012
5:16 pm

Simple fix for the infield fly rule. It is designed to protect the offense. All you have to do is say that in the same situation, a dropped fly ball cannot be turned into a double play. If you drop it, you can force one runner but no double play. Simple fix.

King of Carrot Flowers

October 8th, 2012
5:16 pm

Still trying to erase the final image Chipper left us for his career. Can’t imagine a more disastrous end to an otherwise storybook season.

First, there was the week-long personal victory lap that was the final homestand. Obviously it wasn’t in the team’s best interest for Chipper to play every day, when he hadn’t been healthy enough to do that all year. Would he have played better against the Cardinals given normal rest? We’ll never know…

Of all people to Buckner an elimination game to end a HOF career, I would’ve never bet on Chipper to go out like that. Enough has been said about the bad throw. At least that was a physical error…

Most disappointing of all was Chipper’s final “hit”…9th inning of an elimination game…Chipper fists a ball up the middle that has infield hit written all over it. But for some inexplicable reason, he couldn’t even muster max effort for one last sprint to first. And as a result, he was out. Even though the ump missed the call. Really, Chipper? That’s what you wanted to leave us with? An out that would’ve been a hit for any schlub that bothered to run hard in a playoff game?

It brings to mind George Brett’s famous quote, when asked what he wanted out of his final AB:

“I want to hit a ground ball to second,” Brett replied, “bust my butt down the line and be out by an eyelash.”

Chipper obviously had thoughts to the contrary. He might’ve said:

“I want to hit a ground ball up the middle, cadillac down the line and be out by an eyelash.”

There aren’t many players who’ve had a better career than Chipper, and Braves fans have been lucky to watch him play for all these years. I just can’t help but think his personal sendoff became a huge distraction for going out the right way, and keeping his focus on the team, as it had been for 19 years. It was certainly a sad ending for a great player.

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
5:18 pm

Yeah; Here we go w/ rhetoric & pull’n the rug out beneath the fans again. Who can be Genuine around Here? Who’s for real Uncle Frank?

One Big Dummy

October 8th, 2012
5:22 pm

DOB, in regards to the question about Freeman’s Lasik surgery, is Wren’s response about Freddie or Fredi?

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

You sugar coated everything real good Frank!

flange1

October 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Nice interview DOB! Would love one with the same questions for Fredi!

Jeff R

October 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Solid interview. Thanks, DOB.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Thank you, DOB.

Interesting that Wren and McCann don’t seem to be on the same sheet of music when it comes to whether Mac will need surgery. Also interesting that he says 2b and 3b are Prado’s best positions. I don’t want to read too much into it, but could it be possible he’ll try to shop Uggla during the off-season? Not that I think any team would want to take him and his salary on.

I know many are down on Bourn for his lackluster second half, but I, for one, hope Wren is able to re-sign him. If they do, I think Fredi should give him more days off, he just seemed to be running on fumes there at the end until he got that break from the thumb injury.

I also saw no mention of the bench. Surely he doesn’t think the one we had this season was adequate. I don’t know the stats, but I’m sure it had to be one of the poorest hitting benches in baseball. Sure hope he puts some effort into improving that.

Whatever happens, it should be an exciting post-season, unlike the one last year which could not have been more boring.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
5:29 pm

Should have said off-season. The post season was not to be for the Bravos. :(

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
5:30 pm

flange1

October 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Nice interview DOB! Would love one with the same questions for Fredi!

Agree, would love to hear the same interview with ex-manager Fredi G.

King of Carrot Flowers

October 8th, 2012
5:37 pm

An obvious change for the infield fly rule in the postseason should be that it’s not the outfield umpire’s call to make. There’s absolutely no reason why an outfield umpire should be a better judge of an infield fly than an infield umpire. The outfield umpire isn’t making any other calls that relate to the infield — balls/strikes, safe/out at bases, balks, etc.

adam

October 8th, 2012
5:37 pm

Thanks DOB. Good to hear from Wren. I was really frustrated with some of the management in recent years, but have become more optimistic about FW, Freddi, and co. And as always, I appreciate your hard work. You do a great job and should be commended for it.

Brave New World

October 8th, 2012
5:42 pm

Frank Wren has turned a losing team into a play off team. We won 94 games in 2012. It will be exciting to see what happens to improve the Braves this winter. GO BRAVES!

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
5:43 pm

Hey DOB! I do thank you for the interviews, the efforts, the questions, & also having to set appointments w/players, officials, & any of the brass that you have to schedule. I commend you brother, even for this down time, still trying to seek answers. You’re job isn’t easy, & you do ask tough questions Bro. You don’t ask the clown questions bro….LOL…. seriously, I do enjoy you’s & Carrolls blogs. Alot of time & Hard work, keep it going, you’re much appreciated!

Slammin' Helmets, and Breakin' Bats!

October 8th, 2012
5:46 pm

Unless they completely break down Hanson’s delivery, and then build it from scratch, he’s not going to get any better. With the amount of pitching talent this organization has, it’s surprising management remains hooked on some pitchers who never deliver for so long. KK, Lowe, Linebrink, Proctor, Jurrjens, and now Hanson. In the past two seasons, Hanson has shown little improvement, and he actually seems to be getting worse and worse. He’s unable to hold runners, he can’t locate his 87-89 mph fastball, and he basically only has a two-pitch repertoire. Hanson was very lucky to pick up 13 wins this year. I doubt he would have had a winning record at season’s end if it weren’t for our offense picking him up on many occasions. Remember the 9 run deficit the Braves made up in that game against the Nationals? Yeah, that was a Hanson start, and there were plenty of other starts that were similar.

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
5:48 pm

@ king of carrot; I resoundly agree w you’re statement, Totally!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
5:50 pm

“That being said, there are not a lot of pieces out there in the free-agent market this year that are all that appealing. So we might have to look other places.”

There’s only 1 good piece… a free agent pitcher, in Anaheim…

But we’re not getting a pitcher. Not a lot of good options on the market. Gonna be some trades going on this winter.

Thanks DOB

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
5:52 pm

Bench should be improved… Pastornicky will hit better than Hack-Bunt Wilson, Reed’s better than Diaz, and our backup 1B will be better than Ske…

SR

October 8th, 2012
5:54 pm

Based on the team’s gag jobs every stinking year, I expected them to come up short yet again but I also thought I’d be immune to being upset and angry. And I was, until I started watching the first round of the playoffs and those teams play and then I saw how some teams rise up and play with confidence and energy and manage to win. Why can’t we do that!!?? Why are we always the team that chokes, that can’t hit when it counts, can’t make the key pitch, throws the ball away and friggin chokes, every stinking post-season!!!! With the exception of 1995, that’s the way it’s been. Dammit.

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
5:55 pm

Isn’t Swisher a free agent this year? Maybe grab him and put him in LF and move Prado to 3B? I don’t think Swisher will demand crazy money and he’s solid defensively and a good bat.

spittoon for struggla

October 8th, 2012
5:55 pm

FIRST!!!

Well put re: Chipper’s last hoorah, “King of Carrot Flowers.” It was indicative of the culture of the team for the last number of years. Apathetic, and sometimes just pathetic.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
5:57 pm

Swisher supposedly wants Werth money (17-20 mil/yr) and is 32.

spittoon for struggla

October 8th, 2012
5:57 pm

With you too, “SR.” And previous posts regarding the bench.

Looking forward to seeing Borne become the highest paid CFer in baseball, and still in a Braves uni.
“Not!”

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
6:01 pm

Is he a Boras client too? Swisher I mean

No Kidding

October 8th, 2012
6:01 pm

@ Disgusted: Seriously? For everyone except the team that wins the Worlds Series, it’s “Wait ’til next year.” I’m sure Frank Wren is racking his brain looking for new ways to disappoint. You can tell that’s why he’s invested his life in baseball. Same with Fredi. They get together and say, “how long can we string these fans along for?” Grow up.

fan

October 8th, 2012
6:02 pm

Truthfully, Wren should go.
If not, and he has any brains, he would dump Gonzalez, Pendleton, McDowell, and Snitker,, too.
He should not even bother with Maholm, Hanson, McCann, or Bourn.
Try to dump Uggla, if possible. Put Francisco at 3rd, Prado at 2nd, Constanza in CF, and Johnson in LF.
Get a bat or two, or three.

crackbaby

October 8th, 2012
6:03 pm

@Frank Wren – J-Hey is arguably the best right fielder out there?

Whoa! Did he say that? Love the kid but J-Hey’s fielding needs work. Don’t think he’d finish in the top 6 for Gold Glove.

Somebody tell me I’m crazy.

needastar

October 8th, 2012
6:05 pm

I wonder how much management has taken into account what the lack of Chipper will mean for attendance next year. We all know that Liberty Media is only in this to make money, and thus our payroll will fluctuate based on attendance and revenue. With Chipper gone, the Braves are not going to lose a large amount of the fan base they have had, however the casual fan is going to think twice about going to the ballpark without a star to see. Heyward isn’t the star they would need to fill seats, he might be in the future but not yet. With Chippers career coming to an end over the past few years, we have been averaging around 30,000 a year. Now that he’s gone, who is going to attract them to the stadium? Even if the Braves go 110-52 next year and win the division, they will find it hard to fill the stadium, unless the either sign a big name free agent that will fill the void, or they win a division series and people will come out and support the NLCS. I’m guessing that if we don’t sign a big name to fill the void left by Chipper that attendance will drop to under 25,000 a game (almost 5,000 less than last year). Less attendance means less revenue which means a lower payroll……. Long story short, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Mixxo

October 8th, 2012
6:05 pm

Will Frank defer to the blog “analysts”/”scouts”/”experts” at the meetings?

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
6:05 pm

I’m not sure what B/Macs contract status would be if he elected to have surgery but he would mis 3-5 months next season so I assume the braves would have to pay him although insurance would probably pay most of it. However, Wren is hoping he doesn’t have to have surgery, that way the Braves would be free to either pick up the option or buy out his contract saving millions of dollars.

DOB – Could you shed some light on how surgery would affect B/Macs contract options???

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
6:07 pm

crackbaby – You’re crazy, look at his defensive statistics compared to other RF’s. I don’t remember the exact stats but they mentioned him leading several categories… and “fan” – why dump McCann? Is 5 all star appearances in 6 years not enough? Damn, dude has one year when he struggles mostly due to nagging injuries and you’re ready to dump him? This team won 94 flippin games and half the people on here are ready to throw them to the wolves. Sheesh grow up guys! Go root for the Mets, they had a great year this year!

Virginia Brave Fan

October 8th, 2012
6:08 pm

Lets sign Justin Upton to bat lead off and replace Bourn in CF. I have no idea what to do with LF/3B/2B. I don’t think Fransico is an everyday player. And I absolutely can not stand another season of Uggla. I’d love to see Martin back at 2b, Reed Johnson maybe in LF and ?????? at the hot corner. Maybe Pastornycky at 2B, Martin at 3B? Anyone but Uggla.

Virginia Brave Fan

October 8th, 2012
6:08 pm

Lets sign Justin Upton to bat lead off and replace Bourn in CF. I have no idea what to do with LF/3B/2B. I don’t think Fransico is an everyday player. And I absolutely can not stand another season of Uggla. I’d love to see Martin back at 2b, Reed Johnson maybe in LF and ?????? at the hot corner. Maybe Pastornycky at 2B, Martin at 3B? Anyone but Uggla.

Virginia Brave Fan

October 8th, 2012
6:08 pm

Lets sign Justin Upton to bat lead off and replace Bourn in CF. I have no idea what to do with LF/3B/2B. I don’t think Fransico is an everyday player. And I absolutely can not stand another season of Uggla. I’d love to see Martin back at 2b, Reed Johnson maybe in LF and ?????? at the hot corner. Maybe Pastornycky at 2B, Martin at 3B? Anyone but Uggla.

Chop Chop

October 8th, 2012
6:08 pm

Didn’t expect Wren to say much else. He’s never won anything worth a damn and keeps putting teams out there that aren’t producing when it matters the most. Time to go to Target.

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

fan

You hit the nail square on the head!

Wink

October 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

Wren is dislusional if he thinks he only has to deal with CF and replacing Chipper at 3rd.

He has a CF, he just has to decide if he will pay him. He solves the problem for a leadoff hitter, base stealer, and defense in center; Bourn is the answer. Now if Boras takes him to the open market, fine. What I would like the Braves to do is make him an above average offer based on available funds and secure this position for a number of years. Should he take another offer, sign BJ Upton or give the job to Constanza. He would feel the same job description, but give you a better chance for infield hits & bunts. My main point is to be proactive and at least let us fans see you try to sign the guy instead of letting someone else set the market and you bow out with no effort shown.

Replacing Chipper, give the job to Prado & sign him to an extension asap. Your infield would be set with Prado 3B, Simmons SS, Freeman 1B and Uggla/Janish/Pastornicky at 2B. I could live with all 3 batting 8th, even Uggla. If Uggla has to bat higher, he has to go, I have seen enough sample size to move him or bat him 8th.

Wren should try to move Uggla & McCann; these two players should help you land a good LF via trade if needed. Braves will also have cash available from Chipper & Lowe ($22 mil) to pursue LF or 3B with Prado going back to 2nd & Uggla traded freeing up even more cash.

If they need more cash, do not excercise team option on McCann: then sign defensive catcher & bat him 7th…Molina like talent.

Add another quality pitcher to starting rotation, rid the team of Hanson’s contract, and keep Hudson or let him go as well, if you can find quality pitcher as mentioned.

Lineup 2013

Bourn CF, if he signs offer, or FA…BJ Upton, or Constanza (lineup or bench)
Prado (3B or 2B)
Heyward (RF)
Free Agent (LF)
Freeman (1B)
Simmons (SS)
Free Agent (C)
Uggla (2B), if not traded, Janish if no FA found for 3B, Prado on 2B if sign FA 3B

Wren’s job:
make an offer to Bourn, get Free Agent LF, Free Agent Catcher, sign Free Agent 3B
move Uggla contract, trade McCann, trade Hanson & get back quality pitcher…
then your roster would be solid Mr Wren!!!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
6:11 pm

Swisher is not a Boras client.

Mister Frisky

October 8th, 2012
6:13 pm

Great work DOB.Wren needs to finally admit that this offense has been awful for 3 years.Time to fix it by any and all means possible.Braves got lots of money coming off the books,and plenty of arms that could be dealt to improve the everyday line up.Time for a change in attitude and results in the post season.Teams celebrating at the Ted cannot continue.9 times in 17 years way too much.

FRANK WREN IS PURE BS

October 8th, 2012
6:14 pm

Everything that proceedeth from the mouth of Frank Wren is pure BS! First thing they ought to do is fire Fredi Gonzalez and Roger McDowell, release JJ and Tommy Hanson and trade Brian McCann for somebody who can see, hit, and play every day. Glad the Chipper Gimper Jones ERA is over in Atlanta.

jerry

October 8th, 2012
6:15 pm

One more question, Mr. Wren. “Do you think Uggla is worth 12 million dollars or about 2 cents?”

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
6:16 pm

There’s only one place he’ll find that kind of money and it’ll determine if the Yankees wanna keep him or not.

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
6:17 pm

I wish people would stop talking about trading McCann, you cannot trade him unless you pick up his option first then he could probably veto a trade.

David O'Brien

October 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

7-1 Cardinals. Like I said, you don’t want to clinch early if that means you’re going to put it on auto-pilot and rest everyone for the last week or two and play .500 ball. Can’t just flip the switch when the playoffs start. Cardinals should be going up 2 games to none, frankly.

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

Trade Uggla and pay half his salary the next 3 years and save $6million a year.

ChopStoppedAgain

October 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

I would say moving Martin Prado to third base and going after a LF and CF would be the best move. There are more outfielders out there than third basemen.

Yes Way Josè

October 8th, 2012
6:25 pm

Crackbaby: You’re crazy.

Ebenezer Snerdberg

October 8th, 2012
6:31 pm

FRANK, YOUR RESIGNATION WOULD BE THE BEST NEWS WE COULD GET! YOU’RE TOTALLY INEPT!

jeffrey d

October 8th, 2012
6:34 pm

All caps should help your case

Ueeediot

October 8th, 2012
6:35 pm

has to laugh every time I read a Wren interview.

RE: Tehran and Delgado.
They are doing so well that we traded for Maholm and signed Sheets of the sheetpile.

Wren is so good at ruining his players value.

Peter

October 8th, 2012
6:36 pm

FIRE Wren….. they did in Baltimore….and now we have him and what have we done.. ZERO ZERO ZERO !!!!!!!

jeffrey d

October 8th, 2012
6:36 pm

Wren is so good at ruining his players value.

Like that loser Renteria

Patrick

October 8th, 2012
6:37 pm

“We’re going to be looking for premium players, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. But a couple of things we’re always mindful of. We’re mindful of, we’re putting a team together. We’re not trying to put a player on this team. And so that’s our overriding philosophy of putting a good team together – if we think we can add two players that give us more than one player, we’re going to do that.

“So we’re not going to go outrageous salary-wise. We’ve seen that time after time bite teams in the butt, so we’re not going to play that game.”

I HATE this statement! Reading between the lines, Wren clearly is stating that they are not going to do what it takes to win a World Series. He will only do enough to “dangle a carrot” so to speak to the fan base…giving the team a chance to make the playoffs and then letting things play out from there.

But, to win, you HAVE TO SPEND. He doesn’t have to be outrageous and spend $200 million on a roster…but he does need to be realistic and wise up to the fact that you are leaving yourself NO ROOM for error and also need to bank on a lot of luck with an $85 million payroll. Spending $100-$105 is not outrageous, it is realistic in this market, but..the Braves will not do that-Wren just said it himself. So we can kiss Michael Bourn good-bye.

I also like his nonchalant statement about “just” having to replace Chipper. Yeah…that’ll be easy, replacing one of the best players in the history of the game. The glue to your lineup, heart and soul of your team and the biggest reason fans go through the turnsytle.

If Wren doesn’t spend and make a big splash in free agency or via a trade, things could spiral down even farther than they did when Ted sold the Braves to the devil aka “the corporate world”

Patrick

October 8th, 2012
6:37 pm

Reading his comments gives me no hope.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
6:40 pm

Lol at the IDIOT that suggested sign J Upton…Justin Uptown. Is a RF for Arizona a and would have to be traded for.. hid bro BJ on the other hand is a CF and a free agent u
mm no thanks!

Growler

October 8th, 2012
6:41 pm

A wrap-up interview with the GM, and not a single mention of Gonzalez, except to ask if his coaches are coming back. Disappointing and typical.

P Rose

October 8th, 2012
6:44 pm

Frank Wren doesn’t deserve any heat for this loss. This one’s on Chipper.

This was a game they had to win. It was Chipper’s last shot at another title. It was the one chance they’d have to make up for last season’s epic collapse. They could have handed it back to the Cardinals, the very team that overtook them on the final day of the season last year.

They had the lead. They had the historically-hottest pitcher in 100 years on the mound, pitching a shutout, and the historically-hottest closer EVER in the bullpen. The pitchers weren’t going to lose it — no way.

And then…

Chipper Jones threw it away.

Since Glavine and Smoltz left in 2008, this has been Chipper’s team, and especially after Bobby Cox left after the 2010 season.

In Chipper’s first season here, the team would win its one and only world title. Since then they have melted down and choked every single autumn. Chipper remains the only link to all of those chokes. He has never carried his team to ultimate October glory, as the great team-leaders have done. On the contrary, he has been directly responsible in both of the two post-Bobby collapses — first by losing the ball in the lights last year, and then by throwing the game away Friday night.

Through it all, he has never been one to hold his tongue. He has crowed (”They can go home and put their Yankees stuff on”), and he has criticized (”Heyward should play hurt.”) He has said that others should give more effort, as he himself gave less.

He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for his individual achievements, which are many. But his teams should have won more than one world championship. They could have won just one more this year, but they didn’t. All he had to do was to make that one easy throw to second, but he couldn’t.

So don’t blame Frank Wren. This one was on Chipper.

Patrick

October 8th, 2012
6:44 pm

Nich Swisher is not the answer to anything

He would actually make me want to watch the Braves less.

Nick Swisher-JUST SAY NO!

Heath

October 8th, 2012
6:45 pm

I have been a big fan of McCann, but here’s my observation on what I would do…not that anyone asked, but hey.

The Braves right now only spend around $90M annually on player salaries (I say “only” like that’s not a lot of money, but you get the idea). McCann is not a HOFer right now and if he doesn’t regain the form from his first few years, he won’t be. As such, he does not warrant 13% of the team’s annual salaries. Is McCann’s offense above average for his position? Even this year, yes, it is. The other issue is this: McCann is a catcher, so by nature he is going to miss a lot of games (around 40 each of the last 2 years). Can the team afford to pay for offense to sit on the bench? I don’t think so. If McCann could be brought back at say… $8M/yr…go for it…but $12M just seems way to high for this team’s needs and financial status. I’d rather get another catcher like Ross and put that money in “premium” players at “premium” positions like LF and/or 3B, which coicidently, we need.

As for Bourn… splits be damned, I’d rather take a run at trading for Dexter Fowler first. If you can’t get him, then Bourn. Fowler is more economical and still improving.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
6:46 pm

You will see either Victorino in Cf and Prado in LFO or
Cain in Cf and Moustaskas at 3b. With Prado in LFO and a run at Greinke whilst getting Anibal Sanchez

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
6:48 pm

Board experts OMG most board experts have never been outside in the sunshine and are between 10 years old and 20 years old. They can sure read advanced stats, but because they have no other experience they don’t know how to interpret the stat sheet.

This is not a knock on the board experts that gum their food and drool on themselves until they ring the buzzer for cleanup and bedpan swap. If you gather your decisions on players and info from a blog or message board you need to get to the park more.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
6:48 pm

And will somebody please stop it with the Costanza horsesh1t he will never be a ml. Starter

Vabravesfan

October 8th, 2012
6:49 pm

willingham is probably the best trade target, RH power hitter, fits the budget with 2 years 14 million left on his deal. the twins need starting pitching and we have plenty of that. For CF i think that defense should be priority. but we are lacking a leadoff man so who knows.

P Rose

October 8th, 2012
6:51 pm

King of Carrot Flowers
October 8th, 2012
5:16 pm
——————————–

Excellent post.

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
6:52 pm

The Angels have a fantastic team and go out and add Trout, Pujols and Greinke so experts tell me how that worked out for them. So adding a Pujols and Greinke and the best rookie in 30 years would not guarantee the Braves a post season so just stop with the nonsense.

Goober McBrave

October 8th, 2012
6:58 pm

Best bet here is Brett Lawrie and Rajai Davis… but for whom?

George_George

October 8th, 2012
6:58 pm

Thank you DOB for good interview with FW. I would not overspend tp keep BOURN,think JOHNSON and JOSE C can handle CF. BRAVES real need is a solid good hitting LFder, because I believe MARTIN should be our every day 3RD BASEMAN. With our pitching staff and some improvement of bench BRAVES should be fine to at least equil this years win total. Of course FREDI will have to be a bit smarter and show some energy.

Goober McBrave

October 8th, 2012
7:01 pm

Either way, Wren will screw this up big time! see Lowe ,Kawakami,Uggla,among others!

Gator

October 8th, 2012
7:01 pm

Best solution is to get rid of outfield umpires for the postseason. They arn’t used for the other 162 games so why are they necessary during the playoffs?

Goober McBrave

October 8th, 2012
7:03 pm

WTH? 2 part time players manning full time positions, I am damn glad George isn’t the GM! Constanza is a minor league lifer for a damn good reason!

Heath

October 8th, 2012
7:07 pm

BTW: I also like the Willingham for…Hanson (plus something else I’m sure) trade idea, provided it isn’t Delgado/Teheran added in to the trade. Willingham is affordable $7M/yr, is RH, is OK in the field, has power, and would move Prado to 3B…perfect. That trade makes WAY to much sense not to happen. Braves would have ALL kinds of $ left to resign Bourn if they wanted, pick up all the options, and even sign a longer term deal for Prado.

George_George

October 8th, 2012
7:09 pm

FREDI should be replaced as MGR, but won’t be.

Van Nguyen

October 8th, 2012
7:10 pm

TheBravesareabigtease……..

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
7:11 pm

Schuerholze (?) wrote us a letter of apology after the colapse, & the way it went down unnacceptable, now he had to write a letter of apology to stl.organization & their fans about the Atl’s fans of their unprofessional reaction as unnacceptable & unproffesional to their homeboysam’s assumptional judgement call; moniker;(The mid outfield Holbrook fly rule),

ChipperisGod

October 8th, 2012
7:11 pm

This was a horrible end. The defensive errors, umpires, everything was horrible. We lost that game, the Cards did not win.

We do have a good nucleus, a much better one in tact especially in pitching. But Frank Wren is absolutely delusional if he wants to keep Tommy Hanson. Guy is clearly the WORST starting pitcher we had this year, and I’d give Delgado another shot to be the fifth starter until Beachy returns.

Chipper’s career ended like much of his career played out. Great during the season, bad post season. He used to have good playoff seasons, but that error in 01 in the NLCS, the terrible postseason he had in 05 and now. It’s just frustrating. The guy is a legend and my favorite player ever, but he could never get to the end except for that one time. Came close, he tried and fought with all he could, but just couldn’t do that.

We just can’t seem to get over that hump anymore. Heck, Chipper just had to make that one play, and we probably would have won the game. Sad that he went out like that.

But moving on. Fresh slate, no more postseason chocking. I’d take winning the WC game next year. We just need to not make stupid errors in the postseason. Simple as that. We should have won that game.

Get Ben Revere. Should come cheap and he’s pretty much Michael Bourn, but younger. Had 42 stolen bases and hit 292 this year. As much as I like Mike, he wears down over the second half. We’ve seen it back to back years. Need to get him for CF, and make a run at say a Josh Willingham to go to left and Prado at third. Or keep Prado at LF and make a serious run at David Wright or Chase Headly. Or trade Hanson and Uggla and Tehran for Justin Upton. He’s got potential to be an MVP candidate like he was in 2011.

I would not exercise the option on McCann, make him prove to you he can bounce back before giving him 12 million next year.

Same with Hudson, wouldn’t exercise the option, see how age treats him.

Gotta just do what we need to, to put the team in a good position. We have more money, cut the dead weight (JJ, Hanson), and go get those pieces. Like Michael go and get a cheaper, younger and potentially better Ben Revere. Make a run at Chase Headly, or Upton. Show us, the fan, that you are willing to make the moves to be a championship contender. Staying pat almost worked and should have worked. But we clearly need some different pieces in here to develop that truly killer instinct that the Nats have this year and the Phils had during their five NL East titles. Being the lowest hitting team in baseball with RISP KILLED us in that WC game. Yes, those errors were terrible and cost us the game. But had we hit better with RISP, we would have scored ten runs in that game on Friday!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:12 pm

Willingham would be good for this team, but he just came off of a career year. First time over 30 HR and 100 RBI. The Twins will be selling quite high on him. I’d bet that they’d want Teheran or Delgado+. Don’t do it!

Willingham has power, and hits for decent avg./obp, but he’s turning 34. He will be declining soon, and for what we’d half to give up, it wouldn’t be worth it. If it takes just Spruill/Salcedo, yes. If they want one of our top pitching prospects, no.

Vabravesfan

October 8th, 2012
7:13 pm

Heath, also that move would leave us with lots of money still as well. Hanson + 1 prospect for Willingham. We’d be only spending around 4 million to fill our LF rh power bat need. Would have plenty of $ and tradable assets to figure out CF or possibly addressing a top of the rotation arm as many view a need.

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
7:13 pm

Cherry pick player failures that rest with the players themselves for not playing up to capabilities and having player failure after they are signed and ignore the successes of calling up Kimbrel, Venters, Avilan, Gearrin, Simmons, Heyward, Freeman, Medlen, Minor, picking up EOF, Martinez, Durbin, Ross, and anyone else I left out farkin maroons.

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
7:14 pm

Hey Ralph….., How’s it goin’? Hope well, hey ya’ll have a good one, selah.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
7:14 pm

Wilson, in case you didn’t know, this is a blog, a place for fans to voice their opinions. It’s DOB’s blog, not yours, so maybe you need to stop the nonsense.

David O'Brien

October 8th, 2012
7:16 pm

DOB – Could you shed some light on how surgery would affect B/Macs contract options??? — Ralph

In that regard, the timing is good for Braves in that they have the one-year option they can pick up if they don’t want to sign long-term for health concerns and/or because they have Bethancourt coming.

Can pick up the option, then if he needs a few months of recovery he’d be ready for spring, and if needs more and misses part of season, insurance would pay part of salary. Once they see how bad the shoulder is and whether he needs surgery, they can move forward this winter knowing how long he might be out, etc, and plan accordingly. There’s no rush, obviously. Free-agent period doesn’t start for a month and many if not most trades and signings won’t be until around winter meetings in early December, or later.

Quack Quack

October 8th, 2012
7:17 pm

Good interview DOB. Hope FW can put all the pieces together, and make it count.

Til then……

GO FALCONS!!!

Mike McDonald

October 8th, 2012
7:17 pm

A heaven-sent Braves New World could put a merciful end to the specious and nauseating Wren/DOB post mortems.

The gift from on high would be a decision that now is the time for Liberty Media to cash in the Braves for maximum returns and tax breaks and focus on their core competencies. The perfect time for a worthy acquirer, such as Arthur Blank, to build upon a small nucleus of affordable position players and a hard core of starters and relievers, plus prospects.

Hands-0n Blank knows what it takes, from the top down, to put a winning, major league organization together in the real world.

A true dynasty of World Series Championships, rather than one of thwarted playoffs, could well be the outcome for Arthur’s adopted city.

Chop Chop

October 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

The Nats did what they had to do to win. It doesn’t matter how you do it.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:20 pm

“I feel like this is a more focused offseason. I’m looking forward to it, because I think there’s a narrower focus with what we need. We have a lot of good young players in place. We’ve got to determine what we do it center field, and that kind of couples with leadoff. Center field/leadoff. And then how we replace Chipper. And beyond that, our club’s pretty solid. So it’s a fairly narrow focus.

They are sort of differing totally from what I wanted. I wanted frontline starting pitching and a banger in LF. Seems like they will just be looking for Bourn replacement who can leadoff – Denard Span, Jacoby Ellsbury, etc. We’ll see.

TennesseePaul

October 8th, 2012
7:20 pm

Thanks for the work DOB.

I appreciated all of your work this season. Really made for a fun year. And to think, it’s not too far into the future when your best-of music blog comes out. Just in time for the Holidays. ( :

norris

October 8th, 2012
7:21 pm

well as Romney said…Hope is not a strategy!
Some major moves have to be made. Otherwise it will be the same old song and dance next year.

old man

October 8th, 2012
7:22 pm

I can’t believe Uggla is getting such a pass by so many people.

If we had put Prado at 2B and Reed Johnson full time in LF the day we got him from the Cubs, we might be the #1 seed in the playoffs right now. Uggla picked up a little late in the season, but then came up with an 0-fer night against the Cards with a big fat error.

Put Francisco at 3B, Prado at 2B, eat 80% of Uggla’s deal next year, and then use all the money we have to get a CF and an LF. I would not rule out re-signing Bourne. I’m going to research the Leo Martin prospect after submitting this comment.

74bravesjersey

October 8th, 2012
7:23 pm

@chippahisGod; have a good one, oh yeah, good points there bud, take care all u passionate Bravo BLOGGSTERS, & The Great Legend,& still #1 Beat writer, Undisputed champ of Beat Writin’, Our DOB!

old man

October 8th, 2012
7:24 pm

Enter your comments here

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
7:26 pm

DOB-Thanks for answering my question, I was afraid they might not be able to do anything as for as declining his option with him being hurt, very good answer.

David from Athens, AL

October 8th, 2012
7:27 pm

Thanks DOB.. Looking forward to a productive hot stove winter!

MitchC

October 8th, 2012
7:28 pm

One thing that distiurbed me during that interview was how Wren kept using the word “Replace” Chipper. I think that shows classlessness,and cluelessness on Wren’s part. What he should have said was siomething like “Acquire pieces or players to compensate for the loss of Chippers bat and production when he retires.

I’m not sure what to make of the Braves now. I think they should be competetive next year, but as to exactly what they do, will be a wait and see process

BRAVESFAN

October 8th, 2012
7:28 pm

What are they going to do with Ernesto Mejia? Seems like he’s too good to be sitting in AAA. I still can’t believe he didn’t get a cup of coffee this year but we played an injured Freeman.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:29 pm

“I think the exciting part for all of us is we’ve got a dynamic young core. We’ve got three young guys that were in that lineup [for the Wild Card game] that have a chance to be All-Star players and have a chance to be leaders of this team for a long time. And the bullpen’s intact, our starting rotation’s intact. There’s a lot of things that are real positive going into next year. And guys are going to get better. We’ve got a very young pitching staff, and we’ve got some dynamic young pitchers that are just on the horizon who have a chance to be good.

Heyward, Freeman, Simmons is a strong core of 23 year olds. Sounds like those three, Prado, Uggla, McCann in the lineup. Hudson, Medlen, Minor, Maholm, and Hanson in the rotation. Kimbrel, O’Flaherty, and Venters in the pen.

I still see Hanson being traded….but we’ll see.

Chop Chop

October 8th, 2012
7:29 pm

Efrim,

Why would they mess with success? This team is thisclose to winning a World Series. Here. Have this Kool-Aid. You’ll feel better.

Joe

October 8th, 2012
7:31 pm

Braves are always Braves…they didn’t know how to win the great games, they still don’t know how to do it, they probably will never learn how to do it…

Excuses and more excuses…in 1997 they lost to Livan Hernadez because the umpire (je, je, je fans forgot that Maddux always had the wide strike zone in MLB)….then during 11 years they never won a WS, and now in 2012 other umpire is been blamed for a new frustation..

WeBurn

October 8th, 2012
7:31 pm

1. Move Prado to 3rd. Wren knows Prado is best in the infield.

2. Do NOT sign McCann. He’s done. He’s going to miss significant time no matter who gets him next year. We could use his salary for so much more good.

3. Sign Josh Hamilton to three years 50 millions, with a team option. He’ll replace McCann’s left-handed bat in the middle of the lineup.

4. Sign Bourn but not for anything over $10 million a year. I know, that means he is gone. Fine. He’s a strikeout machine that wears down at the end of the season. He’s valuable but up to a point.

5. Rebuild the bench. We had too many black holes (Hinske, Wilson). Please find someone to compliment Johnson.

6. Let Maholm walk. I’d like to have a second left-hander of course, but we need to give Delgado or Tehran some burn. Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Hanson, and Delgado or Tehran.

7. When Beachy returns, give him the Medlen treatment by letting him finish out the season in the bullpen. Don’t rush him back into the rotation…instead, get him ready to take Hudson’s slot in 2014.

Frank Wren, you’re welcome.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:31 pm

Gotta love the Cardinals depth. Matt Carpenter could be a regular at 3rd base for a lot of teams and he’s on the bench. Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn, and Shelby Miller throwing mid-90’s out of the pen.

Great major league roster and a great minor league system. Just a really strong franchise.

ccrider

October 8th, 2012
7:36 pm

Efrim, Maybe a trade with the Twins(which are nowhere close to contending), Ben Revere and Josh Willingham for Young starting pitching and a position player. Both players will earn about $10 million together next season, leaving money for a signing of Greinke or trade for either David Price or James Shields if the Rays make them available. Price would be my choice.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:39 pm

I’d trade Delgado, Hanson, and Salcedo (if it takes that much) for Gordon…

Braves said they won’t be getting a pitcher, so I expect to see at least 13mil spent on the OF this winter. And, since we’ll still have money, get a good bench bat (for about 4-5mil)

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
7:40 pm

I think Been Sheets will be a Yankee next year, they will make him an offer he can’t refuse, what do you think?

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:45 pm

Not sure how some folks see the Braves as having $30 million to spend. If they are sticking around a $90-$93 million dollar payroll, it’s probably more like $20 million.

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
7:46 pm

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:39 pm

I’d trade Delgado, Hanson, and Salcedo (if it takes that much) for Gordon…

Who the heck is Gordon????????????

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:50 pm

David O’Brien ‏@ajcbraves
I would think so. RT @OVentbrel789: @ajcbraves Trade of Hanson more likely next yr when closer to beachy return rather than this offseason?

I guess there is a chance he gets better after a strengthening program. But that salary will climb, and those peripherals need to get better, with the scouting reports backing it up. 89-90mph with poor command ain’t gonna get it done.

There goes Beltran with his 2nd HR of the game…..isn’t he suppose to be broken down by now? Of course…..

Dawgdad (The Original)

October 8th, 2012
7:52 pm

Carrot Flowers, right on! How hard is it to run hard for 90 feet, especially if it is the last time. How many of our best and brightest military men would love to once again run at top speed. This memory will always come to mind when I think of Chipper, didn’t need to be that way.

Difference between us and St Louis for the past 4 years of so, Matt Holliday, the left fielder. For some reason right handed batters that can hit for average and hit for power are few and far between anymore. I am sure there are a few out there other than Holliday and ARod, but can’t think who they are. The Braves need to find a Matt Holliday clone.

BusterBrave

October 8th, 2012
7:52 pm

Trade Tommy Hanson for CF Peter Bourgeous…..a fast,young centerfielder for the Angels,where Mike Triout will reside for years to come……..or for Lorenzo Cain,young,fast centerfielder and hitter with some pop…..the Royals need startin’ pitchin’……….or maybe Raicha Davis,anyfield,stole as many bases as Bourn,and as good defensively……..plenty of great alternatives to overpayin’ Michael Borne…….Liberty Media bought the Braves as a tax right off Crackberry,and gives us an allowance,and expects the Braves to at the very least pay for itself,don’t need to make $$$ off the Braves,know what the “heck” you are talkin’ bout’ if you gonna’ come on this blog…………

BusterBrave

October 8th, 2012
7:54 pm

and I’ll try to learn to spell……….

No Hope 4 Braves

October 8th, 2012
7:54 pm

DOB asked some good questions, but Wren skirted around everything like he always does. I am so sick and tired of being lied to, but people just can’t seem to answer honestly to save their souls. Fg is not the manager he thinks he is. This teams chokes like no other. Chipper should be totally ashamed of dogging it to first base in his last at bat. We won’t even talk about the error that lost the game.

No Hope 4 Braves

October 8th, 2012
7:54 pm

DOB asked some good questions, but Wren skirted around everything like he always does. I am so sick and tired of being lied to, but people just can’t seem to answer honestly to save their souls. Fg is not the manager he thinks he is. This teams chokes like no other. Chipper should be totally ashamed of dogging it to first base in his last at bat. We won’t even talk about the error that lost the game.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:55 pm

Alex Gordon of Kansas City

Ralph

October 8th, 2012
7:56 pm

BusterBrave

October 8th, 2012
7:52 pm

Trade Tommy Hanson for CF Peter Bourgeous

.220BA w/3HR, seems we have had a few of those in the past 5 years.

Frankie

October 8th, 2012
7:56 pm

“It brings to mind George Brett’s famous quote, when asked what he wanted out of his final AB:

“I want to hit a ground ball to second,” Brett replied, “bust my butt down the line and be out by an eyelash.”

Yep, Chipper may have better numbers but I would take Brett in a heartbeat on my team and Chipper backing him up. CJ had a great career, there’s no doubt he’s in the Hall. Brett had intensity and just a pure hitter. The guy was absolute MONEY in the playoffs and a great and somewhat underated player really.

Enough of blaming Chipper though. Terrible game and flat out no excuse for not running out at very end. Really disappointing.

Still no way this team should have had to depend on a 40 year player though. Blame many but not Jones directly. Ideally would have been great if he batted 6th all season long but Mac and Uggla dropped the rock. Blame there before putting Jones as scapegoat.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
7:57 pm

Uggla – 13.2
McCann – 12
Hudson – 9
Maholm – 6.5

40.7 million guaranteed once options picked up.

Prado – 7.5
O’Flaherty – 3.5
Heyward – 3.5
Hanson – 3.5
Medlen – 3
Venters – 2
Martinez – 1.25

24.25 million for arb. eligible players.

Total of about $65 million for 11 players. Even with minimum salaries to fill out the 25 man roster, and given that the team usually is in the $90-$92 million range, I’m still only seeing around $20 million to spend. Plus, not everyone is making league min. – Ross, Reed Johnson types making 1-2 million per year.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:59 pm

Didn’t the Braves make LM a profit this year? They may get a bit more to spend. I believe payroll was at 84mil this year +the 10mil for Lowe. Add in another 3-5mil (I believe that was the profit) and we’re near 100mil. As it stands right now, Braves will have a payroll in the upper 60smil if they non-tender JJ and somehow trade Tommy.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
7:59 pm

Didn’t the Braves make LM a profit this year? They may get a bit more to spend. I believe payroll was at 84mil this year +the 10mil for Lowe. Add in another 3-5mil (I believe that was the profit) and we’re near 100mil. As it stands right now, Braves will have a payroll in the upper 60smil if they non-tender JJ and somehow trade Tommy.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
8:01 pm

Oh yeah, and Trevor Rosenthal coming out of the pen throwing 97mph. 2013 is just as bright….

Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Westbrook, Lynn, Miller, Kelly, Rosenthal, Martinez, Wacha.

Incredible amount of pitching depth this team has from majors to Double-A.

MiaBchBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
8:01 pm

To add to my 2:57 post on the previous blog: allowing Heyward & Freeman to develop naturally is at best difficult when you are a contending team. Howard and Utley played on some gnarly Phillies teams before they both blew up and became superstars. Heyward and Freemnan are both under 25, and I do not see them becoming superstars (hopefully!) until they are over 25, probably 26-27. I do not expect them to be able to carry a team next season, or even 2014, for that matter.

I do not think Josh Willingham or any other like-type player (i.e., same age) is worth Hanson and either Delgado or Teheran. Yet, I am resigned to the fact that if the Braves make a move, not only do I insist that Hanson be part of the package, but that either Delgado or Teheran or even Gilmartin, must go. No one is worth parting with two of the young three, and Hanson MUST go.

If the Twins are willing to take Hanson, and a lesser pitching prospect for Willingham, I would pull the trigger, with the hope that such a move buys time for either Gattis or Terdo to develop and take over LF sooner than later. I agree that Josh Willingham will NOT replicate his 2012 number; however, I would take under 25 homers from him in exchange for clutch-slugging doubles and around 100 driven in from the cleanup spot between Heyward and Freeman, with Uggla in the six hole, thus providing the lineup with much better balance.

The question then becomes: is Willingham a lynchpin? Because that IS what the Braves need. The Braves need the second coming of Fred McGriff, Andres Galarraga, or Gary Sheffield – nothing less will do.

NYbravesfan

October 8th, 2012
8:02 pm

I’m not saying he should be top target but i live in NY – and watch the Yankees daily – Nick Swisher would be a fan favorite in our outfield – he produces wins, and is the ultimate clubhouse guy. Ive interviewed him before as i work in NY sports TV – he is one of the good guys in the game.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
8:02 pm

Rosenthal just hit 100mph.

Rufio

October 8th, 2012
8:03 pm

I am sick and tired of Braves Management giving the umpire team, Joe Torre the benefit of the doubt for the call on Friday. Yes, ” The Call” did not cause the Braves to lose. However, it costs the Braves the opportunity to get back in the game.

MLB would rather support the myth that the umpires are infallible than get the call right. Wouldn’t it be easier to announce a winner in the first inning? Seriously, it is no fun watching much less dropping $ 300 to take the family to watch a conspiracy to protect a bad call.

Freddi Gonzalez was a huge mistake. We chose the wrong Bobby Cox protege. Freddi needs a spine. The umpires have no respect for him whatsoever. I dont believe he has been ejected as a Braves Manager. If Friday wasn’t a good reason then there will never be one. In fact,part of me wanted MLB to go through with the threat of forfeiting the game. I believe that action alone would have sent a huge message to Baseball that we are tired of it.

Rufio

raleighbravefan

October 8th, 2012
8:05 pm

MiaBch – YOU “INSIST”. Are you Wren’s boss? Express your opinion all you want, but you don’t have the power to insist anything.

Goober McBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:11 pm

Chipper 13.0. mil Lowe 10.0 mil
Jurrjens-5.0 mil
Bourn 8.5 mil
Diaz-2.0 mil
Hinske-1.5 mil
Ross 2.0 mil
EOF 2.5 mil?? doubt seriously they pay this cat another raise to about 4.0 mil
Livan-750 k
Wilson 1 mil
that would be about 46.25 mill there.
raises are not going to be 26 mill so yes the total is closer to 38 to 39 mil to spend depending on Hudson and his option, take away the possible arb raise to Hanson (he gets dealt IMHO) and you will have about 42.05 mill to spend. nice chunk if you ask me.

jim

October 8th, 2012
8:12 pm

There is a lot of enthusiasm for big trades, but not a lot of suggestions of whom we would traded. Please — Hanson, JJ, Uggla, and the assorted bench players that the fans want to get rid of will not bring back much in return. Someone on the earlier blog mentioned Mike Olt as a player blocked at Texas at 3B by that would be a right handed power bat that would be cheap and under contract for the next 6 years. Texas needs pitching and maybe it would take a Teheran or Graham to get him.
Assuming that Heyward, Freeman, Prado, Simmons, Medlen, and Kimbrel are untouchable, the only people that other teams would want in a big trade are Minor, Teheran, Delgado, Venters, and to a lesser extent Avilan,Bethancourt, Cunningham, Gilmartin, and Gattis. There is not a lot of talent left in the farm system after the arrival of the young core players the last 3 years. To have a healthy franchise the system needs to be used judiciously to fill immediate needs, but not gutted to mortgage the future.

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:14 pm

Brava this is a blog mind your own nosy business you creep

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:15 pm

Never liked Brava much. Drinks too much. Military should can her sorry ass

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
8:21 pm

Maybe the Cards will take Hanson and give us one of those good arms? Can only dream…

Willingham just had his first 100 RBI year, had 98 last year. Closest he was before that was in ‘07 when he had 89… I think he’ll probably get 75-90 RBIs if he were with us next year. He’ll be 34. Slugger. Decline.

We’ll be paying for him based on his career year. Not the best idea. Would have been better to sign him last year.

Wilson: Keep it to yourself.

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:21 pm

Sorry Brava this is a blog, DOB blog and you are entitled tou your obnoxious opinion

Goober McBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:22 pm

Gattis,Salcedo, Ahmed, Lipkaetal gfarm is pretty solid not great but solids

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:24 pm

Bring it pencil necks

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:26 pm

TheOnlyBravesFan keep out of this you are out of your pencil neck depth maroon

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:29 pm

Oh! brother!

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
8:31 pm

Nice interview DOB. Thanx

Chop Shop Tees

October 8th, 2012
8:33 pm

All Braves and Braves fans should buy an Infield Fly tee.
http://Www.chopshoptees.com

Wilson

October 8th, 2012
8:33 pm

Richbrave I second that. Excellent stuff from DOB as usual. Always produces in his interviews.

Ken Stallings

October 8th, 2012
8:40 pm

An idea of the split-doubleheader is a good one. Another I have heard is to reward the top Wild Card team by having all three games played at their stadium. That would make this whole three-game series doable in two days, barring weather delays.

That would have the division winners sit for three days (with one day allowed for any game 163’s). That’s only one day more than is currently the case.

John

October 8th, 2012
8:42 pm

Our best player just retired. We’ll never re-sign our leadoff hitter. A cheapskate company still owns us. From now on we’re a second tier team, just competing for an occasional wild card and quick exit.

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
8:42 pm

Hey WILSON:

Zip it, or you get the ‘Alert status red’ treatment from the platoon in the barracks. BRAVA is our platoon Drill Sergeant. U gop after her, you go after all of us in the platoon. Hooah!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:43 pm

CF Victorino
3b Prado
Rf Heyward
LF Kendrys Morales
1B Freeman
2b Uggla
ss Simmons
c Napoli
or
SS Simmons
CF Bourn
3B Prado
RF Heyward
lf Upton
1b Freeman
c McCann
2B Keppinger

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:43 pm

Wilson, do you know me? No you don’t. I’m honorably discharged and retired from the Army and I very seldom drink.

If you think you can come on here and attack everyone personally for voicing their opinion, I think you’re going to find you are highly mistaken.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:46 pm

Hey, rich. Good to see you back to your old self. The ghost is in the closet now, huh?

Any good news on Mrs. rich? I’ve been praying for you two every night.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:48 pm

let’s see how close I get!
ss.Simmons
cf Victorino
3b Prado
rf Heyward
lf Gordon
1b Freeman
2b Uggla
c Bethancourt
starters
Medlen
Hudson
Maholm
Minor
Delgado
Pen:
M.Adams
Martinez
Rodriguez
Venters
Capps
Kimbrel

BrandonLee49

October 8th, 2012
8:49 pm

I think Frank was trying to get away with Not revealing any Secrets…. NSS… we got nothing but stand-in comments…. No mention of Francisco; FG, already asked to be back(?!), That’s just another Hole Frank doesn’t Need on his Plate for the next 4 months… Not that there aren’t Two Dozen Minor League Mgr’s who have beyond a 1st grade viewponit of Running a BallClub into FIRST, Winning the Division… Not being happy with second place. BobbleHeads lackluster playoff could’ve been ‘emotional’ maybe that’s why he didn’t get any days off… Something really Stunk with that… Bad Base running by Simmons ??? what was that about, did he not see the Coach, or was the Coach Caught Sleeping??? Sure Argue the Format Stinks all year, but Torre Likes it, so far the Braves are the Only ones got Bit, so it will be here next year.
Tough article for DOB, so let’s give him a break, There’s No secrets gonna come out today or the next week… “Heyward (in RF) is where he’s Best”…that’s a given challenge for Spring Training, or Winter Talks…

Bama Braves

October 8th, 2012
8:49 pm

joe- There Is No Way Marteen Should Bat Third!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:50 pm

Wilson is an Idiot!

Ward

October 8th, 2012
8:50 pm

Hello everyone! I say sign Swisher, and move Prado to 3rd base, or sign Bourn, and David Wright, and keep Prado in LF, or move Prado to 3rd base, and Sign Victorino, and Swisher. I like all these moves…..

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:51 pm

If Victorino comes to the Braves, I’ll have to find another team to watch. I despise him.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:51 pm

If Victorino comes to the Braves, I’ll have to find another team to watch. I despise him.

Ward

October 8th, 2012
8:51 pm

Trade Hanson for some prospects…..

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
8:53 pm

BRAVA:

Thanx for asking. Prednisone is stabilizing things a bit. They have to balance treatment against other nasty side-effects. Don’t want to create permanent damage to the patient in the process of trying to cure her. But this is a seriously long-term thing. Doc is saying prolly a couple years from here, and we’re already six months in. One day at a time.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:53 pm

maybe Wren could wrestle CarGo from the Rockies nest…
Simmons
Prado
Heyward
CarGo
Freeman
C. Ross LF
Uggla
Bethancourt

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:54 pm

Trade Hanson for anything, Ward. :)

Just so we don’t ever have to watch him labor through another game.

Ward

October 8th, 2012
8:55 pm

Brava – Victorino is a solid player, and has patience at the plate. I would be O.K. with that if we lost Bourn. Swisher, Victor, and Heyward, or Prado LF Victor CF, and David Wright at 3rd base, or Prado LF, Bourn Center, Heyward RF, and Wright 3rd base. I like these moves, but it’s all cool….

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
8:55 pm

Swisher…. no no no

Trade Hanson for a 5 year supply of seeds and big league chew. I’ll be happy! :D

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:56 pm

Well, a little stabilization is progress of sorts, rich. Y’all hang in there. Lot’s of people are pulling for you two and wishing for her speedy recovery.

Ward

October 8th, 2012
8:56 pm

TheOnlyBravesFan – It’s good to be talking about trades, or Winter Meetings again…..

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
8:58 pm

not as good as talking about NLDS matchups though… I was looking forward to analyzing our sweep of the Nats on Wednesday :(

Brava

October 8th, 2012
8:59 pm

Ward, really, I’d rather anyone but Victorino come to the Braves. I hate the guy. Can’t even stand to look at him.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
8:59 pm

Uggla, Hanson,Teheran to Rockies for Carlos Gonzalez, sign Cody Ross for LF, and Jeff Keppinger for 2b grab a couple relievers Scott Hairston, and let’s goooo.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:00 pm

Rich… many prayers will be going up for your Family.

Ward

October 8th, 2012
9:03 pm

Enter your comments here

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:03 pm

One thing I do hope for is that Wren’s rolodex with Hinske, and Diaz numbers on it will get stolen , lost er sumpin like that.

BrandonLee49

October 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

The Nats beat us out of FIRST by Four games, zDo we bet against them Winning another 96 Next year? I’d say chances are good they do, no signs of them faltering. The Braves came out an got theirStaters Flustered just enough to pull out some one-run games, and that One Shutout. but they are Set for next year, no noticable weak links, The Monkey is on the Braves, either we get major help, or Frank looks through his “rose-colored glasses” and says”don’t worry, be happy”… Ever Notice Frank and Gonzo are “two peas in a pod”. Again, Nice try there David, but it’s a lost cause trying to field any vision from a far-sighted grasshopper… Let’s see i’ve got all the food i need right here in front of me.

No Hope 4 Braves

October 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

Brava…As I recall Victorino appears to be everywhere when the Braves were at bat. That man can catch any ball hit any place. He may be an asset here. Rich…I pray the wife progresses quickly and God touches her and heals her.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

Me, too, JoeBrave. Those two have no value to the team. None.

Chop Chop

October 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

I’d rather pay Victorino a little less to play center than bring Bourn back. I’d also be willing to sign Swisher and put him in LF. That would certainly up the grit/scrap quotient on the club. These guys are also used to winning and would bring a little extra to the clubhouse. I hate to talk like that (I’m more of a stathead type), but this team does need something. If Greinke isn’t a possibility, we might as well go for the “load up on solid, ‘winning’ ballplayers” route and see if that makes a difference.

Ward

October 8th, 2012
9:07 pm

TheOnlyBravesFan – I’m not picky, just want to the Braves to be improved, and could accept Greinke. Just feeling for offense this year, but what ever happens I’ll be O.K. with, as long, as the Braves do some kind of improvement. Just thinking about offense…..

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:10 pm

I think you can safely say that Diaz and Hinske will not be on the Braves next year. Remote chance that Diaz could be signed to a minor league contract with an invite to spring training, depending on his thumb.

I was never 100% convinced that we saw the real Matt Diaz this year. He might be finished, but a minor league offering would be a low risk offer.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:10 pm

I just don’t see Wren going for any more pitching. That wasn’t our weakness, lack offense was.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:11 pm

I have always liked Swisher, but I think the Yankees would be crazy to let him get away.

No Hope 4 Braves

October 8th, 2012
9:11 pm

As I recall, Victorino could catch any ball hit anywhere when playing against the Braves. He could be an asset and not cost as much as Bourne. Shake things up a bit, and see what falls out. The way it is obviously is not working.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:11 pm

One thing Frank should keep in mind after the bed wetting the Braves pulled, NO dadgum Dumpster diving, leav scrubs like Diaz, Hinske, Wilson, Overbay,etc right where they are, so damn far away from Atlanta a GPS couldn’t bring em to the TED!

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:12 pm

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
9:13 pm

CUNNINGHAM and HANSON for LF ALEX GORDON

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:14 pm

Agreed Brava. But I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a slight change or two in our staff due that are precipitated by other moves.

I also think FW is always thinking about ways to improve the club overall, which means if a deal for a pitcher presented itself that would improve the team, I think he’d listen.

But at first glance, I am happy with Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Maholm and Hanson as the first 5. Then you still have Teheran and Delgado as backups. And Beachy near the end of the summer. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Beachy come out of the pen if we have 5 decent starters when he returns.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:14 pm

Bring back Ross, Johnson, sign Hairston.and Keppinger to go with Janish or Pastornicky, and roll with that bench. I know we are stuck with Uggly, but the rest of the team can and must be improved.

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
9:15 pm

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:16 pm

So JoeBrave, who are you going to populate your bench with if you don’t go for sub type players. If a player is good enough to start, he’s going to be starting for somebody else.

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
9:17 pm

OF OSCAR TAVERAS is a AA CARDS prospect I like.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:18 pm

Brava

I hear what you’re saying about Victorino, but if that guy had been on our team the past 5 years, you’d of loved him. Guy goes full out.

After Bourn’s collapse in the second half, do you think his value will drop enough for us to afford him?

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
9:18 pm

DS1:

Heh! Unless he’s named DAVID ROSS.

DC3

October 8th, 2012
9:19 pm

trade uggla and hanson and prospects to arizona for justin upton sign bj upton and jeff keppinger and try to sign kyle lohse.
1 keppinger 2b
2 prado 3b
3 heyward rf
4 j upton lf
5 freeman 1b
6 bj upton cf
7 mccann c
8 simmons ss

1 medlen
2 hudson
3 lohse
4 minor
5 maholm

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
9:19 pm

I’d give up SPRUILL and LAMM for TAVERAS.

Thadsdad

October 8th, 2012
9:20 pm

Count me among those dumbfounded by this fascination with Constanza. The guy is OK for a fourth or fifth OF, but realistically, he came up as a rookie, had two or three good weeks, then has been mediocre or worse since – and suddenly he’s an everyday centerfielder? The same goes for Francisco. OK for a bench player, but he doesn’t make enough consistent contact to be an everyday player.
In retrospect, the trade that didn’t happen – Jurrjens and Prado for Adam Jones – would have been a good one, eh?
Still would like to see Lorenzo Cain or B.J. Upton wind up in Atlanta, although Upton is another guy who doesn’t put the ball in play often enough. Like his power, though, and even though Heyward hit the long ball this year, the Braves haven’t gotten enough power from their OF in three or four years.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:20 pm

Ross, Johnson,Hairston,Keppinger,Janish/Passtornicky/Francisco… just gave the bench DS1, no more trash diving for the likes of Diaz/Hinske/Wilson etc. not a fan of those guys no more than I am a fan of Uggla(should have been left right where he was) Wren has an opportunity to make the club better, he needs to forget his friendships, throw away the Topps collection and get it right.

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
9:20 pm

OF OSCAR TAVERAS is a AA CARDS prospect I like.

It’s just an absolute embarrassment of riches. Top 5 farm system. Top 5 in terms of talent at the major league level. I’m sure they are ecstatic that Pujols left. Financial flexibility and friggin Allen Craig to replace him at 1st base.

Couch Tater

October 8th, 2012
9:22 pm

These guys took alot of heat. Nice interview…

They knew that this was going to be a more contentious negotiation. They said, “you have to make a choice.” As the NFL was putting out feelers for interested officials, the supervisors put out a notice that if you choose to make that decision, then obviously you’re sacrificing your college season – and probably your career.

Read more: http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/09/28/my-life-as-a-replacement-ref-three-unlikely-months-inside-the-nfl/#ixzz28lCSHgBv

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
9:22 pm

I’d give up SPRUILL and LAMM for TAVERAS.

Yeesh, rich. He’s a Top 10 prospect in the sport and I really don’t think they are gonna give him up. Plus, they don’t really need pitching. They are us….with offensive depth and pitches that actually break 92mph.

Heath

October 8th, 2012
9:22 pm

Only 2 trade pieces are needed….

Willingham for LF
Fowler for CF

A lot of good reasons to look elsewhere, but I think McCann and Uggla are on the team next year too.

CF Fowler (S)
3B Prado (R)
RF Heyward (L)
LF Willingham (R)
1B Freeman (L)
2B Uggla (R)
C McCann (L)
SS Simmons (R)

SP Hudson
SP Medlen
SP Minor
SP Malholm
SP Delgado

(Those are the 5 until Beachy returns the second half of the season. Hanson out as part of a trade for either Willingham or Fowler.)

RP EOF
RP Venters
RP Durbin (Bring him back as FA)
RP Avilan (Surprised me, did well)
RP Martinez (Good for long relief)
RP Gearrin (Did well and will be RH Sidearmer)
RP Kimbrel

C Ross (Has to be back doesn’t he?)
1B Baker (No more Hinske, would be a good 1B Back-up, especially as RH)
SS/2B Janish or Pastor…both? Not sure.
OF Scott Hairston Perfect 4th OFer for Braves
If not carrying Janish and Pastor…wouldn’t be surprised to see Francisco as 3B backup on the team for one more try.

Those or my thoughts based on Braves money constraints. I think that’ll be a balanced, competitive team.

If Braves play good defense, their still playing… so wasn’t THAT far off to begin with…

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:23 pm

What we saw on average from Michael Bourn is the true numbers he has put up over his career. Since I haven’t followed him, I really don’t know if he has always had a hot first half then a slow second half, or if he is more consistent normally, but he is what he is: 270/340/370

So in the grand scheme of things, this is the sort of player we are hoping for in CF for next year. A hitter than won’t embarrass you and will play really good defense in CF. But we just don’t need to be paying 15 million a year for 270/340/370.

Heck, we could find 2 CF’ers with better platoon numbers for a lot less than that.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:26 pm

Wayne you are correct see Dexter Fowler/Lorenzo Cain/Brett Gardner/Leonys Martin, no way Bourn is worth more that 10-11 per for four years.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:28 pm

Josh Willingham had a nice year but he is on the decline…no thanks

Ward

October 8th, 2012
9:28 pm

All, have a good one, and talk later…..Monday Night football, and Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
9:32 pm

I don’t mind Fowler, but they value him quite a bit and he isn’t a great defender. Could be that Colorado makes it hard to be a great defender, but the defensive metrics don’t give him too much credit. Offensively, I don’t mind him too much. Probably a guy who could hit at least .750 for the year as a Brave. He hit .720 outside of Coors. But I’d expect better than that as he matures.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
9:33 pm

Hanson and Cunningham for Gordon? I’d bet it will take more than that, they want good, controllable pitching. Delgado or Spruill at least. Would like that though, Gordon’s a .300 hitter with good D.

Cards aren’t giving up Taveras, which is why I hope we can get Jay. Gives you a .300/.359/.414/.773 line every year and a 113 OPS+. His RangeFactor (per BBRef) is near Bourn’s

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:34 pm

I agree, Wayn. Don’t see him passing up a good deal on a pitcher, if it comes up, but just don’t think he’ll be actively seeking one. We have much greater problems.

Like you, I’m happy with the rotation, although I wouldn’t keep Hanson if he can be traded. I’ve never liked him and after this season, I do even less.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:35 pm

Joe

Take a second look at that bench of yours. Personally, I don’t like to get into the name calling (dumpster diving as an example) because every single one of these “dumpster” people you are slamming were incredibly good major league players at one point in time. That’s why they are still hanging on in 2012.

But take a look at Keppinger. No range. Substandard fielder. Pastornicky: unproven, poor arm. Juan Francisco: power against righties, but not much else now. Potential though. And the best one is Janish! He’s the reincarnation of 2012’s Jack Wilson. Great fielder (we’ll cut Jack some slack on the D this year, as we really didn’t see much of him) but can’t hit worth a lick.

So in reality, over half your bench would be considered “dumpster” material.

Now, I’m not slamming those guys, but just pointing out that you are putting them in a different category than their skills so far have failed to live up to.

Does that make sense?

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:35 pm

Sorry, Wayne, my keyboard must need fresh batteries.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
9:38 pm

Can’t truly say that Willingham is on the decline, but I do expect him to do so, beginning next year. Hit .235 from August1. Uggla hit .243.

Hoping we can fill our OF needs with cheap good players though. Maybe then, Frank will make a run for Greinke/Haren/McCarthy. Those guys would be a big upgrade to our staff.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:39 pm

Give you guys one name ….Mark Trumbo.. who would you trade to get him?

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:39 pm

Brava

Here’s the rub with Hanson. If you package him this winter, you’re only getting minimal return for him. But it’s entirely possible that minimal return might be the most that you could EVER get for him.

But it’s also entirely possible that he could improve. I know a lot of folks on here are down on Hanson, but take a look at Maholm’s early career. He really stunk it up for years. Then got better.

So I would not be opposed to keeping him in hopes that he improved enough to get more for him, or to keep him long term.

I just don’t like selling low.

Heath

October 8th, 2012
9:40 pm

If not Willingham… I could live with signing Ross.

Blackman, Colvin, Gonzalez, and Fowler at the big league level, and Rafael Ortega, David Dahl other OF prospects coming up… Still think they could part with Fowler. Just about ANY of their OF prospects that are doing well in Colorado Springs will see SP pitch count limit too! (Yes, that last line was tongue and cheek.)

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:40 pm

As for Victorino, since I read about his involvement in the binoculars cheating scandal with the Phillies, I’ve had no use for the guy. I don’t like cheaters of any stripe. Just a pet peeve.

ATLcracker

October 8th, 2012
9:40 pm

DOB Did you see DHD comment at 5:16 pm ? That is brilliant! Such a simple fix to a difficult rule for the umpires to interpret. Call infield fly – if you catch it you get an out – or drop it you still only get a chance at one force out. Perfect. Please see this recommendation gets to the proper ears.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
9:42 pm

Trumbo really dropped off in the 2nd half. Major drop off. Not sure if he is good enough to patrol LF full time. He might need to do some DH’ing.

And he K’s a LOT. I’d sure love to get a few more players that are more selective at the plate.

Well folks, I have enjoyed the conversations. The winter is sure going to be fun to follow.

FW will probably pull a few rabbits out of the hat the surprises us. Should be fun!

Later on………

Bo Graves!!

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:45 pm

I see your point, Wayne. Still, I hope he’s traded. He’s not a good pitcher and I just don’t see him becoming one with that ridiculous delivery. Frankly, I see more injury in his future and think we should trade him before that happens.

Heath

October 8th, 2012
9:46 pm

The blog jumbled up my last post…

…last part was supposed to say: “Just about ANY of their OF prospects that are doing well in Colorado Springs will see similar success in Denver. Plus, Hand fits in well with theri SP pitch count limit too! (Yes, that last line was tongue and cheek.)”

Not sure what happened…

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:46 pm

Talk at you later DS1 be safe

TarHeel We. have a playoff team but no manage

October 8th, 2012
9:46 pm

Will the Braves knw the full extent of McCann’s injuries before acting on his 12 million $ option? Is it smart to spend 12 million on an often injured catcher who is not aging gracefully?

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
9:48 pm

A staggering number of moronic Monday Morning GMs. All Frank Wren has done is a build a team that has the foundation to be good/great for years. Not sure if some of you noticed, and based on your comments, you haven’t, but the Braves were in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years and only a miracle kept them out last year. Do you know who built that team from the ashes of Schuerholz’s trading away EVERYTHING to the Rangers. You know the team that went to the World Series 2 years in a row with our players?

I have all the faith in the world that Wren will find a CF if Bourn chooses to sign elsewhere. He will find a LF to replace Chipper. What else is there? A replacement for Hanson? Sure, if you’re ready to throw him away for nothing, like Jurrjens. Even if you are, this is our rotation:

Medlen
Hudson
Minor
Maholm
Delgado/Beachy (2nd half)

We’re stuck with Uggla, so deal with it. Hopefully he gets his head out of his arse. Then there’s the idiot that is ready to jettison Mac after an injury riddled season. He should have another drink and drive home. Mac is going to be here until Bethancourt is ready to take over, so get used to it. There are no other holes unless you’re blind.

Oh, and the fix for the infield fly is if the ball isn’t caught all runners and the batter are awarded 1 base and can advance beyond that at their own peril. This way the offense is never punished when the defense doesn’t catch the ball AND they can’t drop it intentionally to get multiple outs. That’s the way it should be since the rule is in place to protect the offense, not the defense. Not to mention the runners don’t have to worry about tagging up/going halfway.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:48 pm

Talk to you later, Wayne. Have a good one.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:48 pm

I agree with you Brava, I keep expecting that shoulder to explode any time he pitches! deal him now! before he becomes Len Barker the II

Efrim

October 8th, 2012
9:49 pm

Mark Bowman ‏@mlbbowman
@votanoel2016 Medlen, Maholm, Hudson, Minor and then Teheran, Delgado or Hanson. Beachy returns by July

Lot of it is going to depend on what we trade to fill the voids in LF and CF. Could see Delgado going in a trade.

Heath

October 8th, 2012
9:49 pm

Any time I type in Tommy’s last name…messes up. Hmmm

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:50 pm

A staggering number of moronic Monday Morning GMs.

And you are?

People here are just having a good time voicing their opinions. I doubt anyone here truly thinks they are going to influence what Frank Wren does over the off-season. No need to drop a turd on the blog, Rowsdower.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:53 pm

Or Jair Jurrjens, JoeBrave.

Heath

October 8th, 2012
9:55 pm

Brava -

I don’t think Tommy’s value is all THAT low right now…especially for teams that need pitching depth. (You didn’t say it was, that was just my lead in…) As such, I’d move him too. The Braves have better options and I agree his is an injury risk. Heck, he may already be experiencing reduced velocity because of his mechanics and the wear on this shoulder. Agree with you, trade him. Colorado? You need pitching right?…

Dick Dodge

October 8th, 2012
9:56 pm

Tommy Hanson will soon become too expensive to be “patient” with. He’s already eligible for arbitration this off season. Package him with Dan Uggla to a team that is willing to absorb Uggla’s contract who is in need of starting pitching (like the Dodgers and Red Sox)..and use their salaries for players who are a better, more productive fit for the Braves.

Pick up Hudson’s and Maholm’s 2013 team options (very economical)….decline McCann’s $12 mil team option (or pick it up if a trade can be worked out to an American League team who can DH McCann), let Bourn walk if he isnt willing to sign for $10-$11 mil a year (in that case, go after Josh Hamilton…who will put up beast-like numbers in our line-up), go after Cody Ross to be a right handed power bat to play left field (which would enable Prado to move to either 2nd or 3rd…depending on what the Braves do with Uggla) and non-tender Jurrjens.

vegas

October 8th, 2012
9:56 pm

i will give you a guy that i would love to have on this team, norichika aoki…only had a 1 million dollar deal with the brewers this year….could be a nice pick up, can hit for average and steal some bases.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
9:57 pm

LOL @ Brava. Jurrjens sheesh! what a waste, I truly believe that guy has head problems, a change of scenery is exactly what he needs, or some time with Dave Duncan

Brava

October 8th, 2012
9:59 pm

Heath, exactly. I think he still has enough value to get us something decent. Heck, he did win 13 games this season. I really think now is the time to trade him because I don’t see him improving and am really concerned that he’ll get injured and be of no value if we hang on to him.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:00 pm

Brava – Just tired of everyone ripping Wren for building a great team. It gets old.

And the suggestion for the infield fly rule is flawless.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:01 pm

2013 is Tommy Hanson’s last year of affordability unless he really steps it up. I’d trade him now, just to give us a chance at getting something for him. Plus, I doubt there is any room for him. After the JJ debacle (and I was for trading him for anything we could last year), I’d rather not wait until it’s too late with Tommy.

Dick Dodge

October 8th, 2012
10:01 pm

Rowsdower, McCann has had two injury riddle seasons in a row. A pattern is developing here, and the bottom line is that the potential risk is too much for the kind of money that McCann is going to command after the 2013 season. If McCann becomes a free agent after 2013…some American League team will either outbid the Braves for McCann…or force the Braves to overpay McCann big time!

McCann has more value to an American League team..because of the DH that is available if the demands of the catching position becomes too great as he ages.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:02 pm

Rowsdower, most of us appreciate what Wren has done with the budget he’s had. Granted, there are a few who don’t, but they are definitely the minority.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:02 pm

13 wins, 12 before July 31. He struggled in the 2nd half yet again… declined every year, and mechanics haven’t gotten better.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:03 pm

for sure goners.
Jones
Lowe
Hinske
Wilson
Hernandez
Contreras
Diaz
Bourn most likely.
Jurrjens
Hanson(hopefully)
and more than likely EOF!
leaving a line up at Present
CF?
3B Prado
RF Heyward
LF?
1B Freeman
C?
2B Uggla
SS Simmons..
One cannot pencil in nor can he be counted on until his shoulder is properly diagnosed, if surgery is needed I believe Wren declines the option.

Sambo 4 Rambo

October 8th, 2012
10:03 pm

Is Josh Hamilton available?? I heard talks the other day…

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:03 pm

That about sums up how I feel, too, TOBF.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:06 pm

Wren does a fantastic Job for the limitations placed upon him, the only flaw he has is he dearly loves to bargain shop, and he has a fierce loyalty to old friends those are the only flaws he has.

ChattTownBrian

October 8th, 2012
10:06 pm

I really do like Bourn a lot, but …

Maybe try and nab Jackson from DET and sign Victorino.

richbrave

October 8th, 2012
10:08 pm

Bench?

I’d lose DIAZ, HINSKI, OVERBAY, BAKER, JANISH

In fact, all but JANISH are certified gone.

Keep ROSS, JOHNSON

and based on ST results, FRANCISCO, PASTORNICKY or JANISH and one of CONSTANZA, GATTIS, MEJIA.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:08 pm

Josh Hamilton may possibly become a Brave. Anything’s possible. I doubt it will happen though.

I doubt EOF is gone. We have money.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:09 pm

When is Chris Berman going to RETIRE???????????????????

caleb

October 8th, 2012
10:09 pm

I agree with king of carrot flowers! Too much chipper worshiping this year. Distracting.

Ebenezer Snerdberg

October 8th, 2012
10:10 pm

I USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE I’M LEGALLY BLIND. IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME. I HOPE IT DOESN’T INCONVENIENCE YOU TOO MUCH!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:11 pm

TOBF I doubt the Braves are paying 4 mill fir a lefty specialist, don’t recall the last time they did, correct me if I am wrong but I think the last one was Mike Stanton, or Kent Mercker.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:11 pm

Yeah, I don’t see them letting EOF go. Guy is just too good in that bullpen.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:13 pm

Not at all, Ebenezer. Sorry about your condition.

ChattTownBrian

October 8th, 2012
10:14 pm

Wren has done as good as he can from just things I read and see. Marlins, Mets and other organizations on and on throughout the game either with high payrolls or whatever fail time after time to even reach what the Braves have done the last three years.

Like the Cardinals are lucky more than anything, but baseball is a lot about luck and somebody is gonna have it. Look at the Nats, they’ve done this ONE year in decades of being doormats in the league.

One really consistant dominant team in baseball are the Yankees. Hasn’t it always been that way?

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:14 pm

Last year was the 1st time he didn’t hit .270 or higher and it was due to injuries, so I don’t consider any season before that bad. If you were the GM and traded away Mac, a local boy/6 time all star, the fans would burn you down.

I’m all for trading Hanson since there’s no room for him in the rotation and he isn’t getting any younger or cheaper. Not sure what we could get for him, but it would free up more payroll.

As for Hamilton, forget it. A 30 year old former heroin addict that gives away ABs and sits out with allergies while his team is collapsing…no thanks. Not to mention he wants $30M a year…

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:14 pm

EOF>Daniel Rodriguez

Mixxo

October 8th, 2012
10:15 pm

When is Chris Berman going to RETIRE???????????????????

Not soon enough!!!!!!!!!

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:16 pm

rich, I agree. For me, Ross and Johnson (and I would keep Janish for his outstanding defense at SS) are the only definite keepers on the bench.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:18 pm

Rowsdower, one very legitimate question, are you a team fan, or a player fan? if letting Mac go delivered a better shot at a title, much like when Murph was dealt would you be happy?
12 million dollars is way too much to squander on a guy that may or may not be there come time for the season to start.

sapelodawg

October 8th, 2012
10:18 pm

Move the team to Boston and get the Red Sox for Atlanta ………..both team have adequate to good personnel, and both suck in the front office …… Get Biff Pocoroba to solve the catcher situation …reduce ticket prices and sign 3rd party to run concession stands …. does beer really cost that much in Atlanta? no wonder he town is going to hell in a hand basket. Hire Bobby Cox !!

NORRIS CHUCK

October 8th, 2012
10:18 pm

JOSH HAMILTON WILL BE A BRAVE FOLKS!

Jerry

October 8th, 2012
10:19 pm

It does’nt matter if they sit for 1 game or sit for six, the Braves always loses their edge. They just don’t have a winning attitude. They play like they are just happy to be there

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:19 pm

Since when is O’Flaherty a left handed specialist? He was our 8th inning guy most of the year. He was incredible again this year after a slow start. Didn’t see any evidence to support your “lefty specialist” claim.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:20 pm

Ross, Johnson, Pastornicky are keepers imo

I’d lose Francisco (too long a swing for a PH). Mejia would get a chance to compete for backup 1B job, esp. since he’s RH.

Looking for a backup 1B and 3B this winter

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:22 pm

I don’t really get keeping Janish on the 25man for his defense. It’s not like we have Pastornicky roaming at SS. It Simmons goes down, Prado plays there for a day until Janish arrives. No need for him to be a late inning replacement, and his bat is pretty bad.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:27 pm

TOBF, I disagree. Prado is a versatile player, yes, but he’s a starting position player. He should not be the backup in case Simmons goes down. We need a backup SS on the bench, both to spell Simmons and in case of injury… and sorry, Rev just doesn’t cut it. I imagine he’ll be competing for a bench spot in ST like many others.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:27 pm

@JoeBrave – I’ve been a Braves fan my whole life. I just don’t understand why you’re ready to throw away Mac after one bad/injury riddled season.

Who do you propose take his place? Ross? He’s 36 and wouldn’t survive. You think there’s another catcher of his ilk available for less?

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:28 pm

Back from my chores. Waiting for dinner to warm up.

TOBF

I am leaning towards not keeping a strictly defensive backup SS on the roster. I’d count on Prado (and Pastornicky if he makes the club) as your backups for Simba.

And I realize that you keep Mejia. I can understand the fascination with him, but don’t you think if he were all “that” then the Braves would have brought him up a LONG time ago. Must be something there that we aren’t seeing.

A team is not going to keep a guy down in AAA if there is any thought that he could help. Now, if he gets a spring invite, maybe he’ll get a chance to shine. But as an armchair GM in October, he’s not somebody I’m moving from the A tab (all Braves player I know about) to the B tab (possible players that can help in 2013) on my braves.xls spreadsheet.

:wink:

And yes, I do have one……….

gotigers72

October 8th, 2012
10:29 pm

You asked all the right questions DOB. Too bad Wren chose to not give the right answers.

Uggla has had 2 really bad years. Don’t see how FW can think that all of a sudden Uggs is going to become more consistent. Not gonna happen. As far as Hanson, you know he’s gone as soon as free agency hits for him. He loves SoCal, and with 3 teams there and 2 more in NoCal, well he’ll probably be playing in California, especially considering that Boras is his agent. So why not try to deal him now instead of waiting until his value goes down?

IMO FW and FG should be gone, should have been gone, but that’s just my opinion. It’s almost like they are albatrosses around the Braves neck the way things happened in the past two years.

sapelodawg

October 8th, 2012
10:30 pm

you must be the only braves fan …………. you see things no one else seems to see ……… Pope Pius XXIII is a better shortstop that Pastor Nicki !!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:30 pm

Precisely Rows… 1 inning lefty specialist, he aint Venters nor is he Kimbrel, what he will be is a 4 million dollar 1 inning pitcher… been observing this team a long time, never have they paid that. would surprise me if they do.

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:31 pm

I am seeing a ton of comments about how Uggla and McCann suck, but we are stuck with them.

Actually, we’re not. We don’t have to re-sign McCann for 12M. We could trade Uggla and pay just 11M or so of his 13M. Look–I just saved us 14M in payroll. How are our options like Ross, Bethancourt, Prado, etc. not upgrades over what we got at 2B and C last year?

I don’t get it. Do those two guys have photos of Frank Wren that we don’t no about?

Put Prado at second. Plug someone in at C. You are now miles ahead of last year at 2 positions, and you just netted 14M to spend on a left fielder.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:32 pm

Rowser

Hey, Joe will throw a guy away if he has 5 bad AB’s in a row!!!

(just kidding)

I’ve been a fan since the Braves arrived in 1966. I take a bit more of a patient approach to things with the team. Like not giving up on Hanson yet. Seen too many pitchers blossom after a few years, and TH has an INCREDIBLE curveball. He might have some of the best stuff on our rotation. Same with Mac. When you have a catcher who can hit, you go a LONG way towards hanging onto him until you are certain he is not capable any more.

But just my way……..

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:33 pm

Not even for 1 game? They can always call Janish back up for the next day. Our bench was bad this year, I’m not wanting to add a .200 hitter to hit.

Bench has 5 guys, w/ Fredi’s reluctance to use Ross, it’s really 4. Janish can’t hit, so it’s 3 guys left. If that happens, those 3 guys better be .260 hitters, one with power.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:34 pm

Janish isn’t going anywhere. His D is too valuable. Neither is Fransisco. You don’t just throw away a player with 80 power. If Wren isn’t able to find a viable LF/3B option, Prado stays in left and Fransisco is our 3B.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:34 pm

old man

If it was super easy to just “plug someone in at C” like you state, Mac would be gone now!! Do you have any clue how hard it is to get a good hitting, decent defensive catcher?

But heck yes, let’s just “plug” someone in……………….

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:34 pm

Here’s one: “We’re stuck with Uggla, so deal with it.”

Please educate me. Why are we stuck with him?

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:35 pm

Rows I am not ready to throw mac away, what I am merely doing is looking at the ledger sheet side of things.
Uggla is ineffective at 13 mil
Mac is injured at 12 mil… that is 2 mill of yoour 90 mill payroll for 2 ineffective players at the moment..
Now say Mac isn’t hurt all that bad then he is worth the money… but unless Uggla can be moved Mac is most likely non-tendered if that shoulder is in need of surgery.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:35 pm

Trade Uggla and pay JUST 11 mil of his 13 million owed. Wow, I love your genius.

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

October 8th, 2012
10:38 pm

Great interview, lots of info…..that said.

I can’t get over Friday night’s debacle. Concerning both the lack luster defensive effort and Holbrook’s mind blowing brain fart that may have changed the outcome of the game.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:39 pm

TOBF, I’m not saying Janish has to be the backup SS, but we need someone on the bench who can do it. Heck, I’m not enamored of his hitting prowess by any means, but the guy is a wizard in the field.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:39 pm

You think there’s another catcher of his ilk available for less?

There is Napoli, but he struggled this year. Doubt he’d be much cheaper than Mac (Napoli made 9.5mil this year) and he’s 31 vs Mac being 28.

Janish isn’t going anywhere. His D is too valuable. Neither is Fransisco. You don’t just throw away a player with 80 power. If Wren isn’t able to find a viable LF/3B option, Prado stays in left and Fransisco is our 3B.

Janish would still be in the org. if it were me. Just not on the 25-man. We don’t pinch-defend, we pinch-hit! I’d trade Juan in a package if possible. Prado should/will be starting at 3B next year. Juan isn’t a good PH.

Also, we have 20-28mil to spend this offseason. Frank says he’s not getting a pitcher. If we go through this offseason, and Prado is still in LF w/ Juan at 3rd, that means we didn’t get a LF masher and didn’t really spend any money.

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:40 pm

Uggla is so crappy you would have to pay 11M of the 13M. Or more. But we could have played Pastornicky all year at 2B been ahead of the game. When a player is this profoundly crappy you are indeed better off by just finding a team to take a 2M gamble on Uggla rebounding. If you get that offer you say, “accepted,” and thank your lucky stars.

If you got that done, you would indeed be a “genius.”

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:40 pm

Old man it aint that easy, I just looked at the money side of that scenario, now lets look at the player, yes he is hurt, maybe badly, maybe not, but his presence is felt in the clubhouse, and in the line-up, you just don’t plug that in, Bethancourt isn’t ready, Boscan is a Joke, and Ross cannot catch everyday, so what do you do here? too many times the team has flinched in a pinch, but if that cyst turns into a rotator cuff issue then what?
best to hope for some AL team to take Uggla and run with that nose and them stupid popeye forearms.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:41 pm

Janish is the kind of player that you convince to be happy for the time being at AAA. Heck, pay him major league minimum.

Work on his hitting with him. If he gets good enough, somebody will offer you a nice piece for him. If he doesn’t then he remains your SS insurance policy.

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:42 pm

Does anyone think a team would take Uggla, trade to us a bottom tier prospect, and agree to pay 2M of Uggla’s salary for each of the remaining years on his deal?

Any takers for that deal?

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:43 pm

I here and see the names being bantered but let’s not forget about Boston,those guys have a damn buttload of money to spend after cleaning the Dodgers clocks!

ohhhhYEAH

October 8th, 2012
10:43 pm

I think we need to trade Hanson to the D-backs for Parra. Plays one heck of a left field, decent obp, cannon strapped to his left shoulder, and has a little pop.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:44 pm

But we could have played Pastornicky all year at 2B been ahead of the game.

I am probably the biggest Pastornicky fan on this blog, heck, probably among all Braves fans, and I’m saying that your statement above is utter foolishness. Uggla was pretty good offensively among 2B, except for his batting average.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:44 pm

old man

Is Uggla worth 13 million at his present salary? Heck no. Is he useless, heck no.

He’s probably one of the 4-5 best second basemen in the league. He gets on base at a decent rate and hits a few homers. He has the potential to return to his mean (30 HR’s and 90 RBI’s).

And you want to replace him with a kid who has played very little second base, who may someday turn into a decent utility player, but today is a long shot to make the team in 2013??

Really?

ohhhhYEAH

October 8th, 2012
10:45 pm

For everyone screaming we are going to eat 11 MILLION in salary, you’re an idiot. We arent going to eat that much for anyone. Uggla will be back next year, unless we end up only having to eat about 6 or 7 mil of his yearly salary. But again, we arent going to pay 18M over the next three seasons. Wren will be avoiding another Derek Lowe situation at all costs.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
10:45 pm

@old man – Uh, because noone is going to take his albatross of a contract when he’s had 2 terrible years in a row. There, you’re educated.

@JoeBrave – I complete agree with Uggla, but I disagree about Mac. When he’s healthy he is one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. He hit 20 HRs with one arm. He’s gonna have surgery this offseason and if he doesn’t rebound next year, he is a free agent. Worry about it then.

Dominant 8th inning bridges cost money, Joe. Flats isn’t going anywhere.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:46 pm

Wow, old man, Uggla isn’t THAT bad. He was starting to come around after Fredi benched him. Maybe that’s what Fredi will have to do to him when he goes into his slumps next season because I’m 100% certain he will be the Braves starting 2B.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:48 pm

DS1 , TOBF, the only Brave I would throw under a bus and run over twice is Pastornicky. Heck no he doesn’t deserve to start over Uggly.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:48 pm

I can’t understand why anyone would think that paying Pastornicky 11.5 million to play second base benefits this team in ANY way. Because that’s EXACTLY what you would be doing if you gave away Uggla and sent 11 million per year with him.

We dropped Lowe last year (for only 1 year, I might add) because we had a gridlock at starting pitching. Otherwise he would have been toiling in ATL for 2012.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
10:50 pm

now that’s just cruel to the kid…

Brava

October 8th, 2012
10:50 pm

Oy, I shudder at the thought of Pastornicky at 2B. Give me Uggla any day.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:52 pm

Rowser, what if his Rotator cuff is shredded?
anything can happen, I hope for Mac it is a cyst, and some dipsquat GM will buy what Frank is selling and beg for Uggs. Did not want him before he got here, said trading for him was a mistake, and still believe he will eventually stink it up so bad he will sink Wren in the process!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:54 pm

TOBF, I beeged this blog not to make me hate that kid, but alas giving an unproven weak armed guy a nickname before he earned it just made me sick to my stomach, I hope Wren trades him and Constanza to Siberia…. those two make me ill very ill.

Playoffs!!!

October 8th, 2012
10:55 pm

Wren on JJ and Hanson —– with translation

JJ: ” there will be a determination this winter”——–HE”S HISTORY

Hanson: He won 13 games for us, but his outing got shortened” WE”LL HYPE HIM A LITTLE SO WE CAN SEE ABOUT TRADING HIM.

One new thing about the Braves’ postseason exit this year—-No one is blaming Bobby

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:57 pm

Actually, Prado should play 2B. I was just using Pastornicky to illustrate.

I suppose if Uggla was in a bad car wreck and lost a leg, you guys would insist on playing him at second base, just because we have so much invested in him.

The sad thing is that I might not be able to tell the difference.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
10:58 pm

I have a hard time “throwing” anybody under the bus (except for a few bloggers, from time to time). These guys are human beings. They are fathers, brothers, and sons of someone. They found in their early teen years that they were pretty darned good at baseball, and were hard working enough or just plain talented enough to get to the major leagues.

They don’t need to be denegrated or tossed under any bus. They DO need to be evaluated as to which ones will help the team win a lot of games. Pastornicky, Uggla and Mac are probably all great guys, all young enough to be my sons. I’d be proud to call any of them a son. I’m sure their mama’s love them!

So let’s keep a perspective here. Is Uggla worth 13 million per? Nah. Is he a bum? (it’s possible he has some bad habits, but he is a member of the human race like most of us) Will he work his tail off to try to give us value for the Braves money?

If you watch him play, you’ll realize nobody on that team hustles more. You gotta love a guy like that, and pull for him to get it back together.

NOW, if somebody came along and offered us a prospect we like for him, I might be tempted to send him and 2-3 million per year to that team so Dan got a fresh start. But I’d be very selective to any offers for him from other clubs.

I do think FW will entertain offers for Uggla. But I don’t think any of them will be good enough for us to pay salary and send him packing.

But just remember these guys are young men playing a kids game. And somebody’s son.

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:58 pm

And, actually, Prado is worth pretty close to 11.5M.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
10:59 pm

Old Man, I am actually hoping Colorado is so enamored with 30 taters they flinch hard and bite on Uggla, Hanson, Teheran(will never be what he is hyped to be), and Pastornicky for CarGO

old man

October 8th, 2012
10:59 pm

DS1, you’re right, I need to dial it down.

LAC

October 8th, 2012
11:01 pm

Best thing CHICKEN wren needs to do is RESIGN… He has Killed this franchise, look at ALL the players he has traded away, and the World Series they have played in… Remember Adam Wainwright closing out the 2006 series as a Champion !!!!!

As long as this wren Thing is in charge, the Braves will be a BUST, and only get worse…
I’d rather have Omar Infaunte than dan uggla, and look… He is still playing !!!!

Why is Adam Laroche gone ? We would like to have his 30+ HR’s and over 100 RBI… And the list can go on and on and on… wren has traded away enough players, we would have been a WINNER, as long as he is here… We will NEVER BE !

old man

October 8th, 2012
11:01 pm

If I had reason to hope Uggla might turn around, I would love it. I’m sure he had a miserable time this season. He held up well under the strain. But I would eat a ton of salary to move him.

gy6

October 8th, 2012
11:03 pm

the first thing should be firefredigonzalez.com

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:03 pm

old man

Wasn’t just going after you. Sometimes I just think we need to remember these are young men playing a kid’s game.

But it is big business, so decisions have to be made to make sure the owners money is being utilized for maximum gain.

But this winter is going to be interesting four shore.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:03 pm

Prado is….. priceless.

old man

October 8th, 2012
11:04 pm

I embraced the Uggla deal. What I wouldn’t give now to undo it, and have Infante at 2B and Prado at 3B or LF.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:04 pm

If his rotator cuff is shredded he did a helluva (Fruiti speak) this year. I don’t think its that bad, but even it is, he’s not a pitcher. He was never good at throwing running out runners anyway, so it’s not a total loss. He would still be a great offensive catcher.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:05 pm

DS1 you’re very right, I don’t hate them personally, I have met Pastornicky and he is a very nice young man, I do however loathe the fact he is in a Braves Uniform, and the way he was overhyped and spoon..er force fed by the media to us, when I physically watched him, and knew full well he was not ready then, and will never be ready, hence the final resolution from the vaunted FO, he will be a sub….

old man

October 8th, 2012
11:05 pm

DS1, I know you weren’t going after me. You just said some wise things.

Bobo

October 8th, 2012
11:07 pm

Mac has eye, knee and shoulder problems plus he can’t throw anyone out and slow as a snail. Just what we need for $13 million..hell yea do it again Wren.

Braveone

October 8th, 2012
11:08 pm

From the previous blog which had 4,232 comments, TheOnlyBravesFan led the way with 210 posts. There were 430 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:

Rank Poster Frequency

1 TheOnlyBravesFan 210
2 phil 158
3 Trey 106
4 DS1 104
5 Jeff R 80
6 brian 73
7 Lew 69
8 count_schemula 69
9 usnavyvolfaninva 60
10 Ken Stallings 52
11 Nowhere man 51
12 George_George 49
13 Lance 47
14 P-Town Brave © 46
15 Efrim 45
16 6 Finger 2 tooth Braves Fan 42
17 Bat Masterson 41
18 MIBravesFan 41
19 Brava 39
20 MFin04 39
21 SNEAKY PETE 39
22 Venice Jim 39
23 N8 38
24 playmeortrademe 38
25 sid’s bream 38

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:08 pm

Disregard the fools that don’t know who Wren traded and who Schuerholz traded.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:08 pm

I see no reason to think Uggla won’t turn it around. He was making improvement at the end of the season and talked about the adjustments he was making from working with Walker and Fletcher. The more he works with those guys, the more they’re going to be able to help him tweak whatever needs tweaking. Maybe I’m grasping here, but I seriously think he’ll have a better season next year.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:08 pm

Embracing a deal for Uggla is like kissing your ugly cousin…. Everyone and I mean everyone blistered me good when I said it was a MAJOR mistake, I howled, lamented and cursed , proved it with number after number, was called a fool, but the fact remains Dan Uggla was a collosal mistake.

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:10 pm

Brava

Prado certainly is a gem! I’d love to have 10-15 guys like him on my team.

If you go down the list, we really do have quite a few really good players. A really good core. Hopefully our man Frank can work some magic on the trade front.

Ya know, if Mac or Uggla was my son, they’d probably pay off my mortgage and I could quit work and become their business manager. Work for peanuts and hotdogs at the park every game night!

:wink:

Braveone

October 8th, 2012
11:10 pm

From all blogs this year which totals 305,934 comments, nolie leads the way with 14,015 posts. There were 5,349 different poster names. Here are the Top 100:

Rank Poster Frequency Percent Cumulative_%

1 nolie 14,015 4.6 4.6
2 TheOnlyBravesFan 8,917 2.9 7.5
3 Venice Jim 8,895 2.9 10.4
4 cabravesfan 8,130 2.7 13.1
5 Efrim 7,671 2.5 15.6
6 phil 7,333 2.4 18.0
7 Lew 5,238 1.7 19.7
8 Bat Masterson 4,912 1.6 21.3
9 ncscoots 4,765 1.6 22.8
10 VaBravesFan 4,157 1.4 24.2
11 David O’Brien 4,092 1.3 25.5
12 Ward 3,895 1.3 26.8
13 brian 3,819 1.2 28.1
14 richbrave 3,567 1.2 29.2
15 DS1 3,500 1.1 30.4
16 MFin04 3,396 1.1 31.5
17 Murph 3,348 1.1 32.6
18 Brava 3,336 1.1 33.7
19 jeffrey d 3,280 1.1 34.7
20 tiger297 3,272 1.1 35.8
21 Disgusted 3,212 1.0 36.9
22 The A Bomb 2,951 1.0 37.8
23 Brian from SC 2,874 0.9 38.8
24 TennesseePaul 2,807 0.9 39.7
25 Tomahawkin 2,747 0.9 40.6
26 Jeff R 2,698 0.9 41.5
27 ChattTownBrian 2,644 0.9 42.3
28 raleighbravefan 2,509 0.8 43.1
29 Jerry 2,430 0.8 43.9
30 ChattTownBrian (CTB) 2,416 0.8 44.7
31 Tomahawk Mafia 2,365 0.8 45.5
32 count_schemula 2,301 0.8 46.2
33 CraZy 2,266 0.7 47.0
34 George 2,189 0.7 47.7
35 bravesgrl4life 2,173 0.7 48.4
36 Shaun 2,131 0.7 49.1
37 JC Brave 2,127 0.7 49.8
38 Trey 2,111 0.7 50.5
39 cricket 2,070 0.7 51.2
40 Mark 2,054 0.7 51.8
41 ncbravesfan90 1,975 0.6 52.5
42 Arkansas Transplant 1,972 0.6 53.1
43 DAP 1,885 0.6 53.8
44 McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô: 1,881 0.6 54.4
45 ACE 1,878 0.6 55.0
46 Capt.Mudd 1,835 0.6 55.6
47 Ease 1,823 0.6 56.2
48 abeeewright 1,819 0.6 56.8
49 Mixxo 1,815 0.6 57.4
50 NickB 1,713 0.6 57.9
51 Sopheee 1,704 0.6 58.5
52 kenhotlanta 1,662 0.5 59.0
53 JasonInFL 1,561 0.5 59.5
54 uga-brave 1,547 0.5 60.0
55 Jimmy 1,536 0.5 60.5
56 MIBravesFan 1,478 0.5 61.0
57 keylargo 1,473 0.5 61.5
58 Woody Woodward 1,387 0.5 62.0
59 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 1,324 0.4 62.4
60 noleee 1,318 0.4 62.8
61 BFChris27 1,317 0.4 63.3
62 Bravefaninok 1,245 0.4 63.7
63 TNScott 1,214 0.4 64.1
64 njbraves 1,180 0.4 64.4
65 Mitchell 1,160 0.4 64.8
66 CB 1,153 0.4 65.2
67 Veer 1,127 0.4 65.6
68 Bay Area Steve 1,092 0.4 65.9
69 Hugo Z Hackenbush 1,086 0.4 66.3
70 CaptMudd 1,073 0.4 66.6
71 Tom O’Hawke 1,064 0.3 67.0
72 LAG 1,060 0.3 67.3
73 MiaBchBravesFan 1,029 0.3 67.7
74 Kat 1,000 0.3 68.0
75 RC 983 0.3 68.3
76 usnavyvolfaninva 975 0.3 68.6
77 monty 972 0.3 68.9
78 Ray 955 0.3 69.3
79 Pace 930 0.3 69.6
80 Soph 859 0.3 69.8
81 MikeInFl 855 0.3 70.1
82 Animus 849 0.3 70.4
83 SNEAKY PETE 836 0.3 70.7
84 Frankie Wren 819 0.3 70.9
85 Lawton 810 0.3 71.2
86 Hillbilly 805 0.3 71.5
87 ncgary 801 0.3 71.7
88 Couch Tater 795 0.3 72.0
89 TBbravesfan 789 0.3 72.2
90 Fols 782 0.3 72.5
91 Ralph 776 0.3 72.8
92 Frankie 741 0.2 73.0
93 George_George 736 0.2 73.2
94 J-Man 723 0.2 73.5
95 JNick 716 0.2 73.7
96 Coach (2012 Fredi’s beisbol fandang 697 0.2 73.9
97 Juan 681 0.2 74.2
98 Tomahawkin (The Godfather) 672 0.2 74.4
99 flange1 657 0.2 74.6
100 ray k 648 0.2 74.8

Top poster by blog post date:

Date Poster Frequency Percent

02JAN2012 Efrim 429 9.1
10JAN2012 Efrim 307 7.3
17JAN2012 cabravesfan 245 6.5
23JAN2012 nolie 308 6.9
03FEB2012 cabravesfan 253 6.8
11FEB2012 nolie 223 9.5
16FEB2012 cabravesfan 159 8.7
21FEB2012 nolie 101 9.3
23FEB2012 Lew 78 5.7
25FEB2012 nolie 174 16.1
27FEB2012 cabravesfan 183 10.8
29FEB2012 cabravesfan 188 10.9
03MAR2012 Venice Jim 81 4.9
05MAR2012 Venice Jim 302 21.4
07MAR2012 Venice Jim 191 16.8
08MAR2012 Venice Jim 176 20.1
09MAR2012 Venice Jim 210 31.6
10MAR2012 Rick 79 6.5
12MAR2012 abeeewright 107 7.6
14MAR2012 Venice Jim 159 10.6
16MAR2012 Tomahawkin 114 7.8
18MAR2012 Venice Jim 176 9.5
21MAR2012 Venice Jim 161 23.5
22MAR2012 Venice Jim 159 15.4
23MAR2012 Venice Jim 306 13.4
27MAR2012 Venice Jim 310 15.9
29MAR2012 Venice Jim 448 14.5
02APR2012 Venice Jim 109 11.9
03APR2012 noleee 87 6.5
05APR2012 phil 103 4.1
07APR2012 Tomahawkin 208 6.6
09APR2012 Tomahawkin 96 4.1
10APR2012 ChrisfromSacramento,Ca 85 4.2
11APR2012 phil 163 7.0
13APR2012 JasonInFL 93 5.0
14APR2012 nolie 172 6.6
16APR2012 nolie 80 6.4
17APR2012 phil 54 5.0
18APR2012 cabravesfan 74 4.5
19APR2012 cabravesfan 104 6.8
20APR2012 cabravesfan 104 8.3
21APR2012 nolie 240 9.2
23APR2012 count_schemula 131 6.5
24APR2012 cabravesfan 104 5.8
27APR2012 nolie 162 7.9
29APR2012 JasonInFL 64 6.6
30APR2012 phil 80 7.5
01MAY2012 nolie 64 3.9
02MAY2012 VaBravesFan 90 4.1
03MAY2012 nolie 38 5.0
04MAY2012 JasonInFL 115 8.1
05MAY2012 nolie 227 9.2
07MAY2012 nolie 129 7.8
08MAY2012 nolie 121 10.3
09MAY2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 112 5.4
11MAY2012 nolie 142 6.5
13MAY2012 nolie 143 9.6
14MAY2012 phil 68 5.5
15MAY2012 nolie 81 7.2
16MAY2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 105 6.8
17MAY2012 nolie 116 7.2
18MAY2012 nolie 147 11.2
19MAY2012 nolie 123 7.0
21MAY2012 nolie 74 4.9
22MAY2012 J-Man 83 6.9
23MAY2012 phil 74 6.2
24MAY2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 116 8.0
25MAY2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 100 5.9
26MAY2012 nolie 119 8.9
27MAY2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 96 6.0
28MAY2012 nolie 62 4.2
29MAY2012 phil 95 6.2
30MAY2012 nolie 201 8.3
01JUN2012 nolie 159 9.0
03JUN2012 Efrim 156 5.8
05JUN2012 Efrim 75 5.9
06JUN2012 nolie 127 9.1
07JUN2012 nolie 120 6.4
08JUN2012 JNick 119 6.4
09JUN2012 nolie 94 8.7
10JUN2012 Brava 45 3.5
11JUN2012 nolie 165 8.5
12JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 91 3.5
13JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 174 6.9
15JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 94 6.0
16JUN2012 nolie 167 6.0
18JUN2012 Efrim 84 4.5
19JUN2012 Efrim 91 4.3
20JUN2012 nolie 217 8.0
22JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 81 5.9
23JUN2012 nolie 115 8.2
24JUN2012 nolie 171 6.9
26JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 125 8.8
27JUN2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 111 7.8
28JUN2012 phil 92 6.0
29JUN2012 nolie 186 5.9
01JUL2012 nolie 138 7.9
02JUL2012 Efrim 81 4.0
03JUL2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 156 9.0
04JUL2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 137 7.0
05JUL2012 nolie 127 8.6
06JUL2012 nolie 134 9.3
07JUL2012 nolie 153 3.9
09JUL2012 nolie 225 7.3
13JUL2012 nolie 113 5.2
14JUL2012 NickB 71 4.8
15JUL2012 nolie 203 7.5
17JUL2012 Efrim 104 5.4
18JUL2012 DS1 140 6.0
19JUL2012 jeffrey d 60 4.4
20JUL2012 Mark 216 4.8
22JUL2012 Efrim 209 5.3
24JUL2012 Efrim 278 5.6
27JUL2012 nolie 125 8.0
28JUL2012 nolie 75 6.2
29JUL2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 73 4.6
30JUL2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 279 10.4
31JUL2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 106 6.9
01AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 56 4.5
02AUG2012 Efrim 78 7.2
03AUG2012 nolie 79 9.4
04AUG2012 nolie 72 7.6
05AUG2012 nolie 29 4.3
06AUG2012 Efrim 64 4.8
07AUG2012 Efrim 94 8.3
08AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 228 10.4
10AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 102 11.0
11AUG2012 Mark 97 8.4
12AUG2012 Venice Jim 53 6.0
13AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 93 7.8
14AUG2012 phil 70 6.2
15AUG2012 Efrim 76 5.8
16AUG2012 nolie 106 8.0
17AUG2012 nolie 75 5.2
18AUG2012 Trey 67 7.1
19AUG2012 nolie 123 8.3
20AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 124 5.2
21AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 110 6.1
22AUG2012 Brava 92 6.0
23AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 125 6.2
24AUG2012 Brava 130 4.5
26AUG2012 The A Bomb 75 5.1
27AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 105 7.8
28AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 84 6.9
29AUG2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 158 8.2
31AUG2012 nolie 157 9.5
01SEP2012 nolie 62 6.2
02SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 107 7.3
03SEP2012 nolie 83 6.0
04SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 82 5.6
05SEP2012 nolie 202 7.4
07SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 139 6.5
09SEP2012 cabravesfan 74 8.8
10SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 77 7.8
11SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 71 6.7
12SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 123 6.9
14SEP2012 nolie 63 4.8
15SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 86 8.2
16SEP2012 Bat Masterson 53 4.6
17SEP2012 usnavyvolfaninva 57 5.2
18SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 79 6.5
19SEP2012 nolie 144 7.4
21SEP2012 usnavyvolfaninva 42 4.2
22SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 122 6.2
25SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 101 8.1
26SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 75 7.3
27SEP2012 Bay Area Steve 54 7.0
28SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 46 5.0
29SEP2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 129 9.4
01OCT2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 88 7.0
02OCT2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 230 7.4
05OCT2012 TheOnlyBravesFan 210 5.0

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:10 pm

JS final trade was for Mark Texeira, Wren’s first trade was dealing Texeira, although he didn’t get enough, he did the best he could.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:10 pm

Might as well find out, Brava. Gonna have to pay for him anyway. Those that want to watch him go ape while we’re paying for it are insane.

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:12 pm

I’m surprised I made the list, Braveone. Seems like I only went on that blog to rant after the infamous “Infield Fly Game”. I think I ranted more on Twitter that night, though. I was giving MLB hell. :)

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:12 pm

Seriously, Braveone…

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:14 pm

Oooh, Number 18 of the top 100. I’ll take it. :)

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:15 pm

All in all I wish Uggs could turn it around and be worth what he is being paid, Pastornicky could find some arm strength and make a ton of cash, Jurrjens, and Hanson would just go away far far away like Seattle, and Wren could have one hella off season and bring us a trophy.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
11:16 pm

I’d rather have Omar Infaunte than dan uggla, and look… He is still playin

Sure you would… 2nd most errors among 2nd baseman, and a .300 obp for the year. Uggla was top 5 defensively, and top 3 in OBP i believe.

Uggla: 98 OPS+, Infante 93

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:16 pm

I rocked it on July 18th!

WOW. And 15th on the list! I need another hobby.

:wink:

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:17 pm

GOOOOOO JETS

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:18 pm

Can you imagine how most of you would scream for Wren’s head if he traded him, ate some/most of his payroll and he went and hit 25+ HR’s and 90+ RBI’s for someone else… I’d be on this blog 24/7 watching everyone call for Wren to be fired

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:18 pm

If we gonna go rather haves I rather have Brandon Phillips at 2B

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:19 pm

Exactly, jbailz23.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:19 pm

jbailz, he most likely is done with hitting over 20 hr. downside and falling there.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:19 pm

I’m gonna need to see more from Pastornicky before I make that assessment. Uggla has done it for years. Not the last 2, but, …

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:21 pm

JoeB – Ya, I’d rather have Granderson at CF, Hamilton in LF, Ichiro in RF, Pujols at 1B, Phillips at 2B, Tulo at SS, Beltre at 3B, Verlander SP and Molina C. But life isn’t fair… LOL, and yes for all you bloggers out there I didn’t do any research I put the first big names that came to mind. Don’t bother posting that so and so is better than Ichiro, etc to try and disprove my post..

ncgary

October 8th, 2012
11:22 pm

another year come and gone
hope i make it back for another
lets be selfish
lol

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:22 pm

I think you’re wrong JoeBrave

I remember how incredibly hot Uggla was in the middle of 2011, after starting off in such a horrendous fashion.

I think the man has 3-4 more really good years left. I dare say he’s going to club over 30 homers at least 1 more time.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:22 pm

There’s no chance Uggla is a slap hitting walk, OBP guy. He is going to hit more than 20 HRs for several more years.

Rowswannabe

October 8th, 2012
11:23 pm

Rowsdower a joke wannabe GM with very little knowledge. Wren has not built a GREAT team. Braves have not won a play off since 2001. What do you call great? You saying what Wrens going to do and you don’t have a clue. Hell you funny man not worth the time to respond.

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:23 pm

JoeB – He had 19 HR’s this year and that’s his lowest EVER. Even last year he had 36 in an off year. I won’t give up on him yet.

jocrazy

October 8th, 2012
11:24 pm

He dont care about his players true story my eye fell out of my head i also had shoulder replacement u need both to survive when u cant throw when u cant see try the game idiot manager. by the way i will vote republican

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:24 pm

You hang in there ncgary.

We need all the stable, good bloggers we can get around here.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:24 pm

LOL @ jbailz. nice lineup… I go with Trout, Cargo, Heyward in the OF, Schmidt, Ozzie,Alomar, and McGwire on the IF, Bench behind the plate and Bonds at DH

DS1

October 8th, 2012
11:26 pm

jocrazy

You’re going to give the rest of us right wingers a bad name!

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:26 pm

I hope you guys are right, but I believe he is done with the big numbers.

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:27 pm

JoeB – I knew you’d say something, I was going with all current guys and whoever came to mind first. I need to see what Trout can do with a full year… I do like that lineup though, going all current in the OF and old school everywhere else… You didn’t name a SP though…

Brave Decisions

October 8th, 2012
11:27 pm

Great interview. I will give my own thoughts and opinions all offseason. Here is the offseason primer http://wp.me/p2lqJ1-eN

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:28 pm

@Rowswannabe – And, yet, not only did you take the time to respond, but even changed your name. You’re clearly awesome!

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:29 pm

I was thinking the other day, and don’t take this as a knock on Freddie because I love Freddie and think he’s going to be an incredible player. But how good would we have been this year with someone like Miggy C or Prince Fielder hitting in the middle of our lineup? When’s the last time we had a 100+ RBI guy?

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:29 pm

Gimme Maddux and Clemens Sutton and Guidry

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:30 pm

HAHA, Love it. I love Heyward but give me Mays personally..

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:30 pm

bringing Lee Smith in to close em out

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:31 pm

Clemente in CF, Aaron in RF Dawson in LF

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:31 pm

Lee Smith<Craig Kimbrel LOL

jocrazy

October 8th, 2012
11:31 pm

DS1 thats why i added it dont want anybody think i was a wimp SORRY

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:32 pm

And, what exactly did I do to give the impression that I was trying to act like a GM? Every other idiot on this blog has talked about asinine trades and roster decisions, but you single out the guy that hasn’t done any of that.

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:32 pm

I wish I could have seen Clemente play (too young), only seen replays and highlights.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:33 pm

Forgot to tell ya my Ace was Bob Gibson

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 8th, 2012
11:33 pm

Wren has built a good to great team. In 5 years, he took us from having almost nothing on the farm to having a nice crop of pitching prospects and a few decent position prospects as well. The team just won 94 games, and got knocked out by a stupid format and tight play in 1 game. If the format was “normal”, I dare say we beat the Nats in 4.

He’s made upgrades when necessary, (CF, SP, bench) while trading just 1, an injured, top prospect. He’s kept the others in our organization. All while spending about 85 mil a year. I’d say he’s done a mighty fine job.

Peter

October 8th, 2012
11:33 pm

Bottom line with the current GM and the attitude of Corporate ball in Atlanta…… the Braves will never take down another title…….

Justice was too much on the edge…..But hey the Yankees won it all with him…gosh they make all those poor decisions on the way to the bazillion titles they have, and are playing today are they not…….and Justice was the come back player of the year after leaving the Braves… they had it all figured out didn’t they.they only guy with balls, and produced in the clutch they let go.

We had a cohesive and speedy team two seasons ago with a nice thing going on after the All-Star break….but Wren and management decided we needed Rick Ankiel for Blanco, and next season we got Uggla for Infante…….. Sorry……… I would take the speed over the guys we got in return.

Ankiel had Pop.. really…..Sure…. he really hit a ton of HRs here and he is out of baseball today….and who wants Uggla’s big contract ?

Please this softball team is hitting home runs or not winning…of courses the pitchers throw a shut out and we win…..

The big games……. with the division on the line this year we faced a Pittsburgh pitcher who was 0-6 and sported a 6 run era….. we got 5 walks 2 hits and got shut out…….nice..that is competitive.

With any amount of pressure the Braves fold like a card table……..

I hope Chipper enjoyed his BIG Celebration for getting to the Wild card game…… WOW….. cause they and he sure stunk it up in the end.

Fire Wren…the President…..and get some attitude for a change……. Please because this is getting old, and boring.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:34 pm

Rowser … wow ! Idiot me? dang !

kenhotlanta

October 8th, 2012
11:35 pm

Ebenezer Snerdberg: So you are an umpire…Majors or minors? :)

jbailz23

October 8th, 2012
11:36 pm

I didn’t mention any asinine trades… But that’s just me…

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:38 pm

Welp folks I wish you all a blessed evening, may all your dreams come true, and may the Future of the Braves be brighter than any Yankees dynasty ever dared be.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:38 pm

@JoeBrave – I was speaking of the people that think we just sign Justin Upton or Can trade a bunch of nothing for CarGo. Unless you made one of those idiotic statements, disregard.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:39 pm

jbailz, Clemente was something special, I remember watching as a kid, couldn’t make my mind up if I was Aaron, Clemente, or Garr

caleb

October 8th, 2012
11:41 pm

This is a good article about crappy liberty media (they own the braves!!)

http://www.macon.com/2012/08/12/2134936/braves-winning-despite-ownership.html

Brava

October 8th, 2012
11:41 pm

Have a good one, JoeBrave.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:42 pm

actually Rowser I did wish that Colorado would lose their mind and take all our Ugglas, Hansons, Teherans, and Pastornicky’s for CarGO but I know that aint happenin…. carry on with the nimbletard he is trying to ruffle you my friend , best to ignore the idiot.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:42 pm

I don’t think any of us need anymore proof that Liberty sux.

JoeBrave

October 8th, 2012
11:43 pm

You too Brava… good nite

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:44 pm

I said my piece, i’m done with that tard.

Dick Dodge

October 8th, 2012
11:45 pm

JoeBrave…to answer your earlier question, Rowsdower places his allegiance to the player..over the Braves team.

Bill Walsh once said, “It’s better to get rid of a star player a year too early…than a year too late”. Why? Because when you trade a star player a year too early….you get much more back in return…than you would if you traded the star player a year too late (resulting in a much diminished return).

McCann’s ability to produce has diminished, primarily due to his injury problems. Because he plays a physically demanding position….it’s simply too much of a risk to keep paying him the kind of money he’s going to command as a free agent.

Would I love to see McCann be the kind of player he was the prior 4 years before 2011? Sure. However, I just dont see it happening.

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:52 pm

You’re right, Dick. My 30 years of being a Braves fan has all been a rouse waiting for Mac. You caught me…

Dick Dodge

October 8th, 2012
11:53 pm

JoeBrave, Pastornicky is a joke, totally agree with you. I knew before Spring Training that dude would be a bust. He’s Rafael Belliard…..without the defense!

DOB sure touted Pastornicky, up until the time he was sent down. Just go back and look at the blogs,. Many on here got drunk on the kool-aid.

Venice Jim

October 8th, 2012
11:54 pm

What a moron – Jeter swings at the first pitch…

Rowsdower

October 8th, 2012
11:55 pm

Guess you missed the post where I said trading while injured nets nothing and no reason to re-sign him if he doesn’t bounce back, but that’s ok. I don’t expect you to actually listen to anyone else, rather just keep shoveling your unenlightened opinion.

jj

October 9th, 2012
12:01 am

Who you talking to Rowsdower?

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:05 am

Sorry, meant to tag it with Dick. He disagrees with someone and makes an asinine argument to make himself look good.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:06 am

I just came to the realization that next year is all taken care for the most part. We just need to pay Bourn whatever it takes to keep him, because we have the savior for 2013 parked in the minors!

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:06 am

EVAN GATTIS will be here to save the day!

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:07 am

They spend 90 million on a major league team, and they are terrible owners? Why don’t you go to Miami or Pittsburgh and see how you like it there?

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:08 am

Sorry VJ, still not willing to watch any major league baseball. No apology yet from Bud.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:09 am

I’m obviously talking to myself………….

:lol:

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
12:10 am

Rowsdower, McCann is one year away from being a free agent.

Because of the nature of the position he places, combined with the fact that the Braves are in the National League, the Braves face huge risks with re-signing McCann, given his battles with injuries the past 2 years.

Yadier Molina is a beast behind the plate defensively. He stays healthy, is very durable. He handles a pitching staff great…and cuts down the opposing running game.

McCann will never sniff a Gold Glove. He’s a liability behind the plate. Everything from the “I’m going to backhand every wild pitch, because I’m too lazy to shift my fat azz over to block the wild pitch”….to……”throwing out 15% of would be base runners is considered a miracle for me”…..to getting the hebejebees when it comes blocking the plate (letting a number of throws from the outfield pop out of his glove on bang/bang plays)…..over the course of a 162 game season (at this point, expecting him to start 110-120 games behind the plate is asking for a lot) exposes his defensive flaws.

David Ross getting the starting nod in the play-in game over McCann (if he’s healthy enough to pinch hit in a playoff game..he’s healthy enough to play, period) shows that McCan’t isnt worth what he’s going to command on the free agent market.

At least in the American League, he can hack away as a DH.

benchwarmer

October 9th, 2012
12:13 am

Braves need beyond just talent, some tough guys who never know the word quit, say like Pendleton, Joe Morgan, Jeter. And these guys all have leadership ability in bunches. For all the good qualities Chipper had I just don’t think he could inspire his team to play as well as he, within their own ability of course.

Venice Jim

October 9th, 2012
12:14 am

Wayne – then you might not watch for years and years and years… ;)

benchwarmer

October 9th, 2012
12:17 am

I’m quite leary about signing Borne. To many strickouts. Not great for a leadoff guy.

Venice Jim

October 9th, 2012
12:17 am

Since Joe Girardi is not a blogger, I hope I can criticize the comment “Baltimore and us have kind of went back and forth all year”…

jim

October 9th, 2012
12:19 am

Before Cox and Chipper has any player within memory had a retirement tour like Chipper’s? In the past before free agency, star players were given days where they got presents like cars and fan tributes from the home crowd, never the visitors. More recently, did Cal Ripken have a retirement tour? Griffey just left. Will Mariano Rivera have a similar tour next year? I somehow doubt it. Chipper playing the last 7 games in a row might have put extra seats in the stands for LM, but hurt the player and the team going into the playoffs. The focus became the end of an era rather than the start of a run into the post season.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
12:19 am

DS1, what does Bud Selig need to apologize for? The Braves have themselves to blame for being in the position of having to play the play-in Wild Card game. When you dont care care of business during the 162 game regular season….you dont deserve the luxury of an automatic bid into the Division Series.

Win the division, you escape the play-in game. I’m totally down for rewarding the 3 division winners with the right to play an actual series.

To me, the Wild Cards should be forced to endure the stress that comes with playing a one game play-in game…as well as losing the option of having your ace pitch Game 1 of the Division Series (should they advance). The one thing that people are forgetting…is that the beneficiary of this is the team with the best record in each league (which should be ultimately rewarded because they EARNED that reward with having the best record over a 162 game season).

How hard is that to understand? Quit blaming Selig, when Braves management made bad decisions like giving Delgado 17 starts (and Teheran one) before finally giving Medlen his first start on July 31st. Blame our collective lack of clutch hitting….as well as our atrocious defense in the play-in game.

If you’re looking for apologizes…demand it from Braves management and the players!

benchwarmer

October 9th, 2012
12:20 am

How many times did Chipper swing at first pitch during the late part of this season. Self confidence had better endurance then his game.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:21 am

We are going to have quite a few openings on the 40 man roster after our retirees and free agents are removed from the list.

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:26 am

Who exactly is re-signing him? His option will be picked up, but he is not getting a new contract. The Braves simply do not have a better option. If they did, I can understand your argument, but they don’t.

The Braves are going to bring Mac back next year, and if he doesn’t bounce back from surgery, they will not re-sign him.

How is this confusing to you?

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
12:28 am

benchwarmer, I saw Chipper’s “speech” before the All-Star game. Let’s just say that Ben Stein from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off calling roll at the beginning of class….was more awe inspiring.

Bourn strikes out too much for a lead-off hitter. If the Braves are going to overpay for a free agent, I’d rather see them overpay for Josh Hamilton…who would be our best middle of the line-up guy since Gary Sheffield in 2003.

Pay Hamilton and Cody Ross….we’d have a nice outfield of Ross, Hamilton and Heyward.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:33 am

Did any of you folks see the Bryce Harper interview after K’ing 4 times tonight? What an azz hole! His mama needs to give him a whupping four shore.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
12:36 am

Rowsdower…I’m saying that we dont bring him back in 2013. I say we pick up his option, with the intention of trading him to an American League team (who will give us more in return than a National League team..because of McCann’s added value as a DH).

However, if McCann needs surgery and has little trade value..I say we decline the option and let him walk. We’d have $11.5 mil available to improve our team.

The past several years, we’ve had dead money killing our payroll. Kenshin Kawacrappy, Nate McLousy and Derek Lowe. Wouldnt it be nice to finally have a chance to pay players who actually produce?

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:37 am

So, $30M for Hamilton? I think you need to watch more Rangers games from late in the year. You might change your mind.

Mixxo

October 9th, 2012
12:40 am

Haven’t seen it yet DS1. He must have a thing for clowns though. Did ya see that fancy eye black he was sportin’ today?

Clown-like bro.

Mark

October 9th, 2012
12:41 am

Cut the losses with Uggla – Rather not go through 3 more years of a league leading strikeout leader that hits 220. Then move Prado to 2nd.

Sign a 3B and 1 outfielder that can bat leadoff. Bourn will cost way to much for a guy that swings and misses and Ks as much as he does. May have to play Jhey in CF unfortunately. Not that he can’t but would wear him down more but he can do it.

Other position guys are good to go.

Let JJ and Hanson go.

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:43 am

I understand your theory, but giving up on a 28 year old, 6 time all-star because he needs surgery seems drastic. That money would be great if there was even a viable option at catcher on the market. There isn’t. Napoli is a product of playing for Texas with monsters around him, a short porch and extreme heat. All of which contribute to his numbers. The Braves can’t offer the same environment.

I would appreciate your argument more if Bethancourt was ready to step into the roll, but he simply isn’t. Maybe in 2014.

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:43 am

I understand your theory, but giving up on a 28 year old, 6 time all-star because he needs surgery seems drastic. That money would be great if there was even a viable option at catcher on the market. There isn’t. Napoli is a product of playing for Texas with monsters around him, a short porch and extreme heat. All of which contribute to his numbers. The Braves can’t offer the same environment.

I would appreciate your argument more if Bethancourt was ready to step into the roll, but he simply isn’t. Maybe in 2014.

Venice Jim

October 9th, 2012
12:51 am

“Cut the losses” -does that mean ignoring the $39,000,000 the Braves owe him, and paying it just to be happy to be rid of hime…

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
12:51 am

There will no cutting of losses with Uggla. MLB contracts are guarenteed. We’re gonna have to live with his ups and downs and hope there are more ups over the next 3 years…

Capt.Mudd

October 9th, 2012
12:53 am

And now comes patience….as the team is being assembled and all the aches and pain slip away….[we] fans while away the hours by hoisting brew, watching football and wondering if our Bravos will learn to hit with RISP……..Mr. Wren has addressed the important questions; I assume a new batch of kool-aide is in the works for 2013…as well as the restructured ‘Cap Tipping’ certification course–so all looks well….good to be a Bravo…..keep your respective skills sharp….and, when you encounter someone trying to convince you of something, don’t ‘fall’ for the first pitch.

Mark

October 9th, 2012
1:03 am

Just like a divorce – whatever it takes. I’ve had buddies that get divorced and by the time it finally happened they didn’t mind paying. For two years we have had to endure his sorry at bats minus one 30 game hitting streak his first year that the Uggla lovers point to as his greatness. He is terrible now and aint getting better. Hope I never have to watch him hit again in a Braves uniform. I don’t think you have to look any further than him for last years collapse and this years 2nd place finish in the East.

I’d much rather watch Prado at 2B and Johnson and Constanza platoon in left than watch Uggla flail away at the dish.

Mark

October 9th, 2012
1:06 am

Yep. Just like a divorce. He sucks and life aint gonna be happy in Atlanta for the Braves as long as Uggs is out there.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
1:21 am

I watched a number of Rangers games on the MLB package. Texas’ struggles werent just Hamilton’s fault.

Hamilton isnt going to get $30 mil. More around $23-$24 mil a year over 5 years. The Yankees nor Red Sox are going to sign him (driving down the bidding). And Texas let Cliff Lee walk, rather than overpay him.

Because the Braves have a solid team in place….I could see Hamilton taking a 5 year, $100 mil type contract from the Braves.

Michael Bourn is going to be disappointed by the market. I dont see him getting the $15 mil a year he wants.

You were robbed!

October 9th, 2012
1:33 am

No more 5 year contracts! Send Uggla down to the minors, or even little league and see if he can remember how to hit home runs. We are stuck with that great, great production for another 3 years. Yikes! And how about that great throw to 1st base. Awesome.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
1:58 am

The notion of “hustle” is overrated. I’m not saying that I’m ok with players “loafing”…what I’m saying is that I am not more inclined to be patient with a player who is struggling…just because he hustles.

The notion of being a “good clubhouse guy” is also overrated. Again, I’m not saying that I’m ok with a player causing a ruckus in the locker room……what I’m saying is that I am not more inclined to be patient with a struggling player….just because he’s a good influence in the locker room.

The past few years have shown that fielding a bench full of “good locker room guys who hustle” isnt enough. Eric Hinske stank up the place in 2012 (he struggled last year as well). Matt Diaz hasnt been a force with the bat in 3 years. Brooks Conrad couldnt catch a cold. Paul Janish is all glove….Triple A bat. Peter Moylan cant stay healthy.

Instead of worrying about how someone is going to fit in the locker room…..put more focus on how a player’s production is going to fit in the win column.

“Hustle” and “being a good guy” are way overrated sentiments that gullible fans use to justify their blind loyalty to the player and team. Without those sentiments to fall back on…the fans would have to face reality: The bill of good they were sold….was a flawed product, possibly by fraudulent means.

Were reality to sink in…..depression, then anger would soon follow…which is the last thing that the powers that be (Braves management and Braves players) want. Where they want your “anger” to be directed at….is at the umpire who made the bad “infield fly rule” call…..and at Bud Selig for the one game play-in game. Anywhere but where it is deserved (again, at Braves management and the Braves players).

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
2:10 am

Rowsdower…….McCann hasnt really played at an All-Star level since the 1st half of 2011. He was injured in the 2nd half of 2011…as well as throughout 2012.

In the ideal world, it would be nice to give McCann one more year…giving Bentencourt one more year of seasoning in the Minors. However, by keeping McCann for the 2013 season..the Braves have two choice regarding McCann after the 2013 season: Lose him to free agency and get nothing in return..or…pay him a huge contract to re-sign.

Being willing to trade McCann in the off season….would give the Braves great leverage when it comes to getting a return on McCann (more in return than his production would be in 2013).

Chop Chop

October 9th, 2012
2:11 am

We can replace Bourn with Ankiel and call it a day.

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
2:59 am

There is no leverage for a guy that has had shoulder problems for 18 months and needs surgery. The Braves would get pennies on the dollar for a premier player (when healthy). Better to take your chances this year and see what you have. I don’t mind losing him to free agency if someone wants to overpay. With this talented, young core, there is no reason to make rash decisions.

Sorry, but I think you’re stuck with Mac for at least one more year.

N8

October 9th, 2012
3:02 am

“Sure you would… 2nd most errors among 2nd baseman, and a .300 obp for the year. Uggla was top 5 defensively, and top 3 in OBP i believe.”

I don’t think anybody doubts that the “upside” to Uggla is higher than Omar Infante.

That being said. 13 million vs. 4 million……

Is Dan Uggla 9 million dollars “better” than Infante?

No.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
3:06 am

I have always believed that when it comes down to it…people say more by their actions..than by what they strictly say.

I give Fredi Gonzalez credit for starting David Ross in the play-in game. He made the absolute correct decision. The Cardinals would have ran all over McCann. Privately, McCann (if he’s worth his weight in being a competitor) had to be seething at being benched (again, if he’s healthy enough to pinch hit…he can play..especially with it being a playoff game).

McCann says that he’s going to need surgery. Frank Wren says that he thinks McCann can play in 2013 without surgery. Why would McCann and Wren seemingly appear to not be on the same page when it comes to something like whether a player is in need of surgery or not? I see nothing but jockeying for spin control should McCann be moved (whether traded or option declined).

I suspect that McCann is not happy with what Gonzalez decided to do. If McCann really wanted to play for the Braves in 2013, why not wait until after the Braves decide to pick up his extension..before announcing that he needs surgery? Why risk the Braves not picking up his 2013 option (kind of like how the Braves cut Ron Gant after his motorcycle accident)?

My take is that he really wants to play for another team…who believes in him as a full time catcher. I suspect that deep down, he believes that by playing in the American League, the DH will prolong his career as a catcher.

It just doesnt make sense to pay a catcher $15 mil a year in the National League (unless you’re Yadier Molina..whose durability is pretty amazing). Dude’s career has taken off in the past couple of years…while McCann’s been injury riddled…and has regressed defensively.

knockerhomerx

October 9th, 2012
3:12 am

Frank, Com’on man. Trade Uggla, Hanson. If you pick up McCann’s option 12 mill, ouch. B Mc is declining and has been. Bring up our AA catcher. Prado to 2B. Get a stud with the stick for 3B and LF. Speed in CF/leadoff hitter. Freeman @1b, Heyward @RF. Pitchers and Bullpen fine. Unload underachievers add on overachievers. l love my braves. Nothing personal against uggs, red, bmc. just business. Move on

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
3:15 am

Rowsdower, when healthy, McCann can still hit. McCann’s trade value to an American League team would get far more than “pennies on the dollar” (as you suggest). The Braves would get good value in return if a team like the Yankees or the Red Sox got involved. You’re not even factoring in how the DH can help prolong a player’s career. If the Breves were an American League team…McCann would have been our DH, while Ross started the play-in game.

Paying McCann $15 mil in the American League makes perfect sense (even with the risk of injury) because he can catch 110-120 games a year..while DHing 30-40 games a year. However, our lineup has been hurt by not having McCann’s bat in our line-up for big chunks the past couple of years..due to the effect his injuries has had on his availability and ability to produce.

For a number of years, we counted on Chipper and McCann to be our number #3-#4 hitters. How many other line-ups have had their #3-#4 hitters miss the amount of time that Chipper and McCann has missed (even though both were dropped in the order at times the past 2 years..they were both paid like they are 30 homer/100 RBI guys)?

N8

October 9th, 2012
3:16 am

I don’t think McCann’s defensive ability has regressed. I don’t think it was upper half caliber to begin with and the injury bug has made it worse.

He was never that good at throwing. Never that good at blocking balls and often out of position when blocking the plate. Mac made his money with his bat. If he can’t hit….. he’s of very little use to the Braves on the field. That being said, he’s a “draw” at the gates and with Chipper gone, i suspect his jersey will be the top seller next year. Or at least up there with Heyward and Freeman.

The “safe” thing to do is pick up the option and if it turns out to be the wrong decision you cut him loose. Wren can always go trade for a veteran (defensive) catcher if Mac can’t play in 2013.

The bold thing to do would be to cut him loose now and use that 12 million on two everyday players for CF and 3B/LF (depending on Prado), that will play in 155+ games. When you think about “pro-rating” Macs games started with his salary, he’s more like a 16-17 million dollar player since he’s only going to start about 130 games or so.

The Braves are just fortunate to have the best backup catcher in baseball for when he’s down.

Not sure what to do about Mac. Guess it depends on what options Wren has in mind for the other two positions. If he’s going Willingham/Cody Ross kind of route? Then he best pick up Mac’s option and cross his fingers the old Mac shows up.

If he wants to be bold and trade Teheran or Delgado to get somebody better than a Cody Ross/Willingham type guy? Say in a crazy world he goes all out after Josh Hamilton? Then I suspose you could afford “defense only” behind the plate.

To me it’s all relative depending on the other moves what to do with Mac.

But like Paul Maholm….. I think it’s a no-brainer to pick up the option. Because SOMEBODY would trade a prospect for a gamble year on Mac (just like Maholm is VERY tradeable if Wren chooses to do so), if he became available. So why wouldn’t you at least pick up the option and see where it goes?

Rowsdower

October 9th, 2012
3:42 am

@Dick – I know what you’re driving at, but his option isn’t $15M. It’s $12M. Not chump change, but i’m not worried about what he makes on the open market. I’m worried about what the Braves could get THIS offseason for a player that needs surgery. We’re not getting much in return, and if he comes back strong, i’m would be pissed.

Nothing to be gained this offseason. Let’s see where we’re at closer to the deadline. If we’re not contenders and he’s not performing, deal him for whatever you can get. If we are and he is…

jj

October 9th, 2012
4:21 am

WeBurn makes some good points,but I would do all I can to trade Hanson.He and JJ were to be our next stars on pitching staff but that boat has sailed and Medlen,Delgato,Minor,Beachy,and Tehran are next in line with ole man Hudson still hanging on.I would also keep the veteran Maholm until we are sure some of the youngsters are ready to roll.I also hope the Braves give Franscisco a chance at 3rd.He did good with the limited time Chipper allowed him to play this year.A left handed power hitter at the corner could be interesting.I hope he and Betencort play winter ball and are given every chance to come North next year.I think there are some trades that could be made to help our OF and Bench. I Like that CF in Colorado and their extra OF Michael Cuddyer.He was good in Minn and I think he would fit the bill as our extra OF with Reed Johnson.This is a BIG OFFSEASON and I hope Wren is up for it.GO BRAVES

knockerhomerx

October 9th, 2012
4:35 am

GM Wrenn and fellow Braves fans, l present our 2013 Atlanta Braves

SS Simmon
2B Prado
RF Heyward
1B Freeman
3B Olt TEX
CF Upton TB
LF Morales LAA
C Bethancourt

1P Medlen
2P Maholm
3P Hudson
4P Minor
5P Delgado/Teheran

CL Kimbrel
LR O’Flaherty
LR Venters
RR Martinez long relief
LR Avilan
RR Gearrin
RR Graham power

Bench
IF Jannish
OF R Johnson
IF Francisco
IF Baker
C Ross

susie wells

October 9th, 2012
5:37 am

i hope to hell frank wren does something this year at the winter meetings besides sitting on his ass and playing with his toes take his big salary and get a good player or better yet new glasses for the blind umpires.

Same old stuff

October 9th, 2012
5:46 am

Should ask Framkie Wren Uggla can’t do it we blew it ..after all why was Frank Wren not roasted for sayin this team is good enough go all the way to world series…and same as chipper mouth runs..by his words ..Just want say u atlanta fans are the best and we are far better then any other Natl. league team here….Nice clipboard for wall to see…idiot!You should said How come Baltimore won wild card and could be in world series oh wait…Frank wren Knows he trade are farm system to there….chipper did not want win wildcard are go all way….he proves it 2000 season 2outs 6-2 lead rocker on mound ground ball to him oops i over threw first base we lose st.louis we play we get swept 3-0 in wildcard series….yet no one blame him….2012 now routine ground ball oops over threw uggla and poof…and now crys if been best of 3 play-in game what next best of6 oh wait 12..Get over it Frankie u lied n all the bull fart you say it be like all winter meetings U go dallas sit in Motel with some vodka fall asleep do nothin…are walk by MLB studio folks and fall in Pool! 74-88 record for 2013!

longtimefan

October 9th, 2012
6:55 am

DOB-Thanks for the season blogs. I’ll be back next year. I, for one, believe in FW and trust that he will provide FG with the pieces to make a run at the division championship next year. We have a great nucleus of young players to build around. The sarcastic pessimism spewed by so many fans on this blog absolutely amazes me. There are very few teams that wouldn’t trade their last 2 decades for the Braves. Our young players under control for multiple years are the envy of most GMs. I look forward to the winter season chess match.

K Conway

October 9th, 2012
7:07 am

Wait til next year! What a joke!!

Rick in Macon

October 9th, 2012
7:11 am

So Frank is very optimistic where we stand…well folks, get ready for another letdown next season. With him feeling that way, we’ve not got a chance. If he wants to improve the team he’ll fire Fredi, McDowell and get rid of Uggla. Get rid of them and you’ve fixed half the problem.

GRAPHITE

October 9th, 2012
7:19 am

Maybe Frank should be told of the Indian curse that is on Capitol Av. sacred grounds.

Mark

October 9th, 2012
7:24 am

I see the braves in the same position as the hawks. Nice young core and a lot of flexibility. Personnel/finance wise. Go Braves

NORRIS CHUCK

October 9th, 2012
7:28 am

Rufio

October 8th, 2012
8:03 pm

“MLB would rather support the myth that the umpires are infallible than get the call right. Wouldn’t it be easier to announce a winner in the first inning? Seriously, it is no fun watching much less dropping $ 300 to take the family to watch a conspiracy to protect a bad call.

In fact,part of me wanted MLB to go through with the threat of forfeiting the game. I believe that action alone would have sent a huge message to Baseball that we are tired of it.”

Rufio

I AGREE BROTHER!

Black Boortz

October 9th, 2012
7:35 am

Here’s a thought: cut the MLB season from 162 games to 140. Then begin the playoffs in mid-September. There’s no reason to play 162 games and a one-game playoff. Every playoff series should be 7 games.

Black Boortz

October 9th, 2012
7:39 am

And forget the Indian Curse! This team is/was cursed by Mark Wohlers’ 3-2 slider to Jim Leyritz in the ‘96 World Series. Nothing good has happened to this team in the Post Seaon since then. Kill the Wohlers Curse and we’ll see Post Season success. Until then, it’s either one and done, first round exits, or crushing, demoralizing defeats deep in the Post Season.

Couch Tater

October 9th, 2012
7:52 am

Nice young core and a lot of flexibility.

The Gymnastic Strategy!

Dead Weight

October 9th, 2012
7:57 am

FIRE FREDI G. Release or make trade bait of Tommy Hanson, JJ. THEY NEED TO GOOOOOOO.

Gary O.

October 9th, 2012
8:03 am

Efrim,

I remember you were high on Beltran last year, and he would have been a great addition for this team. With Beltran in LF, Prado would have been our super sub, and would get plenty of PT filling in at 3B, 2B, and LF.

NORRIS CHUCK

October 9th, 2012
8:08 am

Black Boortz,

Ive been screaming that for years now. It would seem like common sense, but MLB is making money. As long as the people still come, that wont stop. The season could be 200 games and the people will still come.

Makes sense to me that a 90 win team have more than just one game to play. Typical St. Louis Cardinals, barely win 85 or so games and run the table a few years ago and about to do it again.

MLB made up this one game playoff to pacify some teams but it clearly not working.

NORRIS CHUCK

October 9th, 2012
8:09 am

By the way, trade McCann, JJ and Hansen and maybe a youngin’ for Napoli and Hamilton!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
8:11 am

Napoli and Hamilton are free agents….. I’d like to have Napoli, but he’s turning 32 and will probably want to start.

As for catchers being defense first, I agree. That’s a bit part of the game. However, when you have one who can hit, while providing adequate D, you keep them. That’s why Mac will/should be back next year. If he gets his shoulder healthy, I can’t see him struggling again.

Gary O.

October 9th, 2012
8:16 am

I am not sold on picking up Mac’s option. 2 seasons ago, he got hurt, and he struggled big time after the all-star break. Last season, he got hurt, and struggled big time.

And now he is another year older, and playing arguably the most demanding position in baseball. $12 mil is a lot of money to spend with your fingers crossed, hoping that BMac stays healthy AND returns to form offensively.

alanfalcon

October 9th, 2012
8:23 am

To The FAN, you sure have an odd approach to this game and thank god no one will listen to someone like you and your ideas.

WOW

October 9th, 2012
8:24 am

And the A-hole brings the band back together for another disappointing season, AGAIN. What a bunch of asscrocs.

richbrave

October 9th, 2012
8:31 am

Lot of last night about JUAN FRANCISCO and how bad he was last season.

I’m sorry but I just don’t see it. Yes his swing’s too long, but getting rid of that drawback before he tries to murder air molecules, and getting the muscle memory to swing at the same tempo all the time can correct that problem. If he learns to do that, and I saw flashes where he was attempting to do just that, we’ve got a power-hitting 3B. He has great potential if he’ll just even out his swing.

The kid’s a work in progress. Give him a chance to prove out. Keep him on the bench. Insert him in the line-up against his strengths for the time being. and let the two hitting coaches continue working with him. Get him some work in the Caribbean Leagues over the winter.

Troy Of Toy

October 9th, 2012
8:32 am

1) Don’t resign McCann unless its for about half his salary since he takes 1 game off per week (plays 100 games max).

2) Get a .300 40 hr. 100 rbi bat no matter where he plays. Preferably LF.

3) The actual problem with the pitching was that Braves depended on Medlen who was in AAA in June to be the saviour. That’s showed the lack of starting pitching.

Your oatmeal your eating

October 9th, 2012
8:35 am

Are we hanging a flag in the outfield for “wild card play in participant” WOW that sounds so bad like a fifth place ribbon for field day.

Troy Of Toy

October 9th, 2012
8:37 am

I’d go with Bethancourt & Ross at catcher. Free up the $10 million to sign a full time healthy player instead of part time catcher with injury problems like McCann..

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
8:37 am

Yes [Francisco's] swing’s too long, but…He has great potential if he’ll just even out his swing.

I have to disagree, rich. There’s much more wrong with his swing than just his length, from what I’ve seen.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
8:37 am

Get a .300, 40 HR, 100 RBI bat… because those guys just grow on trees

Troy Of Toy

October 9th, 2012
8:39 am

Trade for Ryan Braun.

Carroll

October 9th, 2012
8:47 am

I have said the same things about Chipper for years. In fact, I remember being at game 6 of the 1998 Braves-Padres debacle…you may recall that after storming back from a 3-0 series deficit and bringing the NLCS back to Atlanta, there was renewed excitement that maybe they had shaken off the negative playoff Karma that began when that idiot umpire Tim Welke stepped right in Jermaine Dye’s way of catching a routine pop foul fly in the 1996 WS… so I bought two premium tickets to personally witness it all finally come full circle for the Braves. My reward? Two friggin hits in a shutout loss to a no-name nobody (Sterling Hitchcock). One moment in that game stands out in my memory…we finally had the chance to get a little something going when Chipper hit a hot shot that trickled off the SS (or maybe 2B) glove….in one instant I rejoiced “FINALLY!!” …then I looked down the line to see that Chipper wasn’t even running at all…thrown out easily. I ran down the steps to the dugout to let him know how I felt. So for me, this is a microcosm of his legacy…an underachieving loser who never appreciated the opportunity he was given enough to rise up to the occasion. The team which has always excelled at finding new ways to break our hearts is a reflection of its leader, and that was never more apparent than last Friday. Good riddance. I can only dream of what Dale Murphy might have done with all the opportunity that Chipper was handed on a silver platter..to play behind such pitching talent like may never be seen again on one team….and the co-sluggers he had protecting him in the lineup. I, for one, will not pander to this underachiever.

DaltonBrave

October 9th, 2012
8:49 am

Forget Bourn. Bring in Josh Hamilton and move Prado to lead off. We need a lead off man that can put the bat on the ball. One that doesn’t strikeout every other at bat.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
8:51 am

So what’s the over/under on “days the blog is overrun with doofus posters before they switch to football and leave us in peace”? Anybody?

bill

October 9th, 2012
8:55 am

DOB I missed the question about Fredi calling a bunt with one out and men on second and third with a nohitting pitcher up next. The announcers were apologizing for Simmons because he made a rookie mistake by bunting. We now know it was that always will be a nonothin rookie manager with 7 years of experience.

Evil Chuck Dowdle

October 9th, 2012
8:59 am

Two years in a row we have had players wear down toward the end of the season and in some cases even earlier. Suggest adding a strength and conditioning coach that knows how to prevent this. Maybe it is because I don’t follow other teams but how is it that we continue to have this issue and other teams like the Cards seem to peek at the end of the season? Lay off the twinkies boys.

Gene

October 9th, 2012
8:59 am

Good article Dave. Do we still get a Wild Card flag for our stadium collection? Maybe a parade?

Chop for Chip

October 9th, 2012
9:01 am

this isn’t fantasy baseball… these trade proposals are crazy. wouldn’t be shocked to see bourn back and a left fielder. everything else the same

Chop for Chip

October 9th, 2012
9:01 am

this isn’t fantasy baseball… these trade proposals are crazy. wouldn’t be shocked to see bourn back and a left fielder. everything else the same

Cecil34

October 9th, 2012
9:01 am

Amusing to see so much fawning over the wild-card – fact is, that was created for nothing more than extra revenue, and for baseball purists, it really just means that they were the first loser in the division.

Wren has been selling the same snake-oil for several years but the results are poor.

Whether he is truly competent at his job will never fully be ascertained as long as a detached, sanitized and non-comitted ownership like Liberty Media is involved.

All Braves management are aware they are behind the 8-ball with this ownership and it’s restrictions in place as far as expenses and long-term strategy is concerned.

But, just like the old Soviet Union, they are going to portray the situation as a positive even though it is apparent to all that Liberty Media’s involvement is a negative to this franchise.

Shoot, Tim Tucker’s interview with McGuirk confirmed everything you would want to know about Liberty Media’s long-term strategy with this franchise.

Attendence is in decline as well, so there appears to be a lesser interest in just qualifying for “wild-card” every year.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:04 am

It’s going to be a long offseason – especially on the blog. The idocy has started already – or is it that it never ended?

Randal Patrick McMurphy

October 9th, 2012
9:04 am

A lot of ‘interesting’ lineup configurations here… bottom line, you could have Murderers Row penciled in… it’s STILL gonna be that Jackass Havana Fats doing the penciling… SEE the problem, and remove it… period… end of Story…

If not… you do the Math… NO calculator required… |-)

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:06 am

Actually, attendance went up this year over last and is about as steady as any teams’.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:08 am

Trade for Ryan Braun.

Sure… the Brewers are just waiting to trade their franchise player who’s under contract through 2020.

Try again.

Double Zero Eight

October 9th, 2012
9:13 am

Rumor has it the Braves were cursed after winning
the 95 World Series, then abruptly trading Grissom
and Justice, even though both made significant
contributions to winning the pennant.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:13 am

Sorry folks, but I am tired of people telling me that Liberty Media is the problem, when the spend 90-95 million per year for this team.

90 MILLION!!

That’s a lot of clams.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they lowered that somewhat this next season, with some of the big salaries coming off the books. I wouldn’t even blame them.

We are a mid market team with a mid market payroll.

Get over it!

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:15 am

TOBF

Hey, maybe Milwaukee would pay part of his salary too! We could send them Uggla and Hanson for Braun!

And while we’re at it, maybe we can deal Detroit Gorkys Hernandez and Jair Jurrjens for Justin Verlander.

can you believe some of these folks?

DaveinNEPA

October 9th, 2012
9:18 am

12mil is a lot of coin to dish out for a player as ‘iffy” as McCann will be in 2013. Considering his shoulder/knee/eyesight/excess weight, he’s just too much of a gamble. I think they should cut ties with him and move on. It would make more sense to resign Ross as backup and then find another, younger, cheaper, experienced defensive catcher to play most days until Bethancourt might be ready.

As for CF, Victorino is a FA, switch hits, can hit leadoff, has speed and a couple of GGs and had a down year. He would probably come far cheaper than resigning Bourn. (and IMO Victorino is a more “complete” player than Bourn)

I say give Uggla 1 more season to see if he can work out his issues and if not then they should try to find a taker, even if that means eating a big chunk of his salary.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:20 am

Y’all continually bitch we don’t have enough money, yet constantly clamor to eat millions of dollars of salary. Sheesh.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:22 am

can you believe some of these folks?

I believe they are crazy and foolish!

beachcomber

October 9th, 2012
9:24 am

With all the talk about new CF and LF/3B, one thing the Braves must do is tie up David Ross. There simply is no better number two catcher in the majors and he’s probably better than as many as 10 starters.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
9:27 am

and [Ross is] probably better than as many as 10 starters.

Since the chance of Ross being able to catch 130 games in a season is probably less than zero, he actually isn’t better than one starter, let alone ten.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:32 am

What Ross is is the best back up catcher in the league..

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:33 am

ncgary

October 9th, 2012
9:33 am

90 million aint chump change but 110 million would have added more than 20 million worth of selling value

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
9:33 am

Y’all continually bitch we don’t have enough money, yet constantly clamor to eat millions of dollars of salary. Sheesh.

C’mon Lew. It just makes sense. If the team can dump Uggla and pay, say, $10M a year the Tigers would gladly hand over Infante… So the team would have Infante at $14M a year instead of Uggla at $13M a year. It’s a win/win!

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:33 am

What Ross is is the best back up catcher in the league..

Yes.

DonofAcworth

October 9th, 2012
9:34 am

Look at Baltimore… they have some castoffs and no “stars” except those that they put in place and allowed them to develope. What they have is an strong urge to win and they don’t read the newspapers to find out if they can win. A good manager (like old Cox) who knows how to develope players and if you don’t have gobs of dollars pay the guys that produce and stand back and allow them to do just that. When a player comes to Atlanta they know they have to produce from day one and some good players who are now producing on other teams are players we threw away before allowing them to develope.
Develope what you have and a TEAM will occur before you eyes. A team of players who will believe in each other and pick each other up when the need comes. I just don’t believe you can set down and buy players and expect them to meld and win without a heart that beats together. Yes, have a talk with each player and tell them the improvement you need to see in them…smart young men can react to positive suggestions like that.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:34 am

The Braves and McCann should probably know in a week to 10 day whether he will need shoulder surgery or rest. That should make things a bit easier going forward. If the Braves think they will need someone more capable of starting a large number of games, they might be more inclined to get a catcher that is capable of starting over 100 games in 2013.

I agree with scoots that Ross is probably not capable of catching that many games, and still performing to the levels we are accustomed to him providing.

Even if we get another catcher, I would still hope we would lock up Ross for another couple of years.

DOB

Is there any indication that FW wants to hang onto any of the group of Reed Johnson, Lyle Overbay and Jeff Baker? How about Chad Durbin in the pen? (I’m guessing a lot might depend on what kind of contract they are looking for)

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:35 am

As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they [Liberty Media] lowered that somewhat this next season, with some of the big salaries coming off the books. I wouldn’t even blame them.

That would surprise me.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:37 am

McCann will be re-upped, IMO. He’s a bridge to Bethancourt. At least that’s how team execs may think through it.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:38 am

10Paul

Somebody last night wanted to send Uggla plus 11 million to some other team, and have Pastornicky play second base.

For whatever reason, they couldn’t seem to decipher that it would be Uggla at 13 or Pastornicky at 11.5.

Duh……….

:wink:

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:38 am

For all of those who actually think Christian Betancourt should be in Atlanta this year -

A – .269, .293, .366

A+ – .271, .277, .325

AA – .245, .275, .291

In addition, Betancourt is recovering from a broken hand so he’s absolutely certain o improve those numbers, right? And you think McCann on a bad year is not good enough?

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
9:39 am

Troy Of Toy @ 8:32

1. McCann played in 121 games this year.
2. Easier said than done. Who do you think they should get? Your suggestion of Braun is not realistic at all. Why would the Brewers trade him?
3. Pitching would not have been an issue had Beachy not needed TJ surgery.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:39 am

I’m expecting a lower payroll next year. We’re not getting pitching (or so he says) and there’s not really any combo of 2 OFers worth spending 20-25 mil on. I’m expecting about 14-15 mil at the most; that includes getting a veteran bat for the bench and ‘pen.

NotYou

October 9th, 2012
9:40 am

@Disgusted – Please never consider yourself a Braves fan. I can’t stand this moping three year old, “this is the worst day ever” bs. You sound like such a child. Get over yourself and support the team. They did better than last year but I understand that’s not enough for you. They could go all the way every year and you and your type would still find something to complain about. I feel sorry for those that live with you.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:41 am

Jeff R

Think of it this way. You replace Chipper with somebody like Josh Willingham at 7 million per and then add a CF for 3-4 million per.

Then you have to figure for raises and maybe signing a couple of players long term. In the end, what if the salary number came up to 85 million. Would you automatically think you MUST go out and spend the extra 5 million just to get to 90??

I sure wouldn’t. I’d use that flexibility to resign our young players in future years.

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
9:42 am

Great interview, DOB.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:42 am

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18585

The league’s 30 clubs drew 74,859,268 over 2,423 games this year: an increase of 2 percent. ……it was the league’s largest year-to-year growth since the 2007 season total rose 4.6 percent over 2006. Nine clubs drew more than three million in paid attendance this season, while 13 clubs eclipsed the 2.5 million mark. In addition, this is the second consecutive season that total attendance increased over the previous year and marks the highest attendance since 2008. When things are all said and done, 2012 will rank as the fifth-best single-season in MLB history in terms of attendance.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:42 am

I heard from McFann yesterday (for those who actually care) and she has left the blog – at least for the time being because (in her words ) “I found myself getting more worked up over the And Idiot’s comments than they’re worth.”

She also says hello to noile, haggard, jeffrey d and “a few others”.

Hope y’all are inmordinately proud of yourselves – you drove a teenage girl away. You should be proud of yourselves.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:44 am

DS1, that’s a good point.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:44 am

OnlyBraves – You notice he also spoke of extending Prado and they will extend a few others, as well, taking up the rest of the available money.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
9:45 am

McCann will be re-upped, IMO. He’s a bridge to Bethancourt.

Except that Bethancourt has shown absolutely no ability to provide even the minimal catcher offense needed to play in the bigs. Zip. If he repeats at AA next year, that will be his age 21 season and suddenly he’s not the “youngest guy in his league”, anymore. A failure to up his offensive game to at least the point of projectability in 2013 would be a really bad sign.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:45 am

I really do hope that the Braves save whatever money they do save… it may come in handy later on.

Cecil34

October 9th, 2012
9:46 am

Actually the high water mark in attendance in the last 13 years was 2000, with an attendance of 3,234,901. This was the last year the Braves eclipsed 3 million in attendance.

The late 90’s were very consistent for them to draw over 3 million.

The attendance in 2012 was 2,420,171.

Obviously attendance is in decline.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:48 am

No, the attendance declined over ten years ago and has remained very steady since then – between 2.3 – 2.8 mil a year.

BravesFanInMaine

October 9th, 2012
9:50 am

caleb….. thanks for posting that article about the braves ownership….. The braves can win a championship on 90 million dollar payroll the big thing is not to throw money at bad players for instance I love chipper jones and he was the face of the franchise but the last four to five years he has cost the braves alot….. Uggla will be if not already another player that is going to eat alot of payroll…… I just hope the braves make good financial moves with allowing flexibility at the trade deadline to add another bat or pitcher if need be

Cecil34

October 9th, 2012
9:50 am

But it has declined…

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
9:51 am

Except that Bethancourt has shown absolutely no ability to provide even the minimal catcher offense needed to play in the bigs.

Wouldn’t argue with that. Yet, team execs are high on the kid, or so I’ve read. My guess is Bethancourt restarts at Mississippi next season, and if he improves, advances to Gwinnett in the summer. Maybe he gets to Atlanta in September.

This is just a projection. Plenty of stuff can happen to intervene to change things.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
9:51 am

I don’t think extending Prado and Heyward next year cost a lot more than offering them arbitration. There will still be money available.

http://www.talkingchop.com/2012/10/9/3478006/atlanta-braves-off-season-questions-part-2-whos-on-third

Mentions using Juan against righties, Prado vs. lefties. Says that Juan should un-Melky (duh), but that he’s a solid option nonethless. May hit 30 HR out of the 7spot.

That may be fine, though I disagree, but I really don’t want a platoon in LF, unless we’re getting Greinke or another top pitcher. I’d rather have an every day LF out there

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:52 am

Lew

Thanks for the update on McFann. I do not blame her for taking a break from the blog; whether it be temporary or for good. I have felt the same way from time to time.

After an absence, I usually return for the bennies of having insider access w/ DOB.

Hopefully she is on the twitter thingy (I might have to figger out how to do that one day).

cowdogit

October 9th, 2012
9:53 am

Since the braves were in last place hitting with runners in scoring position, I would suggest the best clutch hitter available would be the number one priority. I repeat that the best move made in the winter meeting was when the cardinals decided not to spend all their available money on Pujol’s. I know that Fredi is sure glad to get Chipper out of his hair, maybe now the team will be his to manage.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:54 am

Braves attendance since 2000 (rounded off)

01 – 2.8 mil
02 – 2.6
03 – 2.4
04 – 2.3
05 – 2.5
06 – 2.5
07 – 2.7
08 – 2.5
09 – 2.4
10 – 2.5
11 – 2.3
12 – 2.4

DS1

October 9th, 2012
9:55 am

The folks that want the Braves to go after some big name free agents are the same folks that will whine that we need to eat salary to get big salaries off the books a few years later.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
9:55 am

Gotta say, apparently the crazies not only come out at night on here, but some people smoke way too much or drink way too much…..

The fact that ANYONE thinks we will get ANYTHING for Hanson is crazy logic….

Even crazier is thinking that we will get Alex Gordon for NOTHING….

Some of the trade proposals and logic on here are quite comical…..

In fact, theyre Jim Hendry worthy :lol:

Lew

October 9th, 2012
9:55 am

And something else that has declined since 2001 – f’an’s Income.

ga gator

October 9th, 2012
9:58 am

Bite the bullet and break the bank and get rid of Uggla. Prado to second, Josh Hamilton to left and David Wright at 3rd. See how simple it is?

Cecil34

October 9th, 2012
9:58 am

2000 attendance – 3,234,901

Since 2000 – less than 3 million.

2000 vs. 2012 – a drop of 814,730 in comparison of those two years.

I see steadiness but general decline overall.

Jimbo

October 9th, 2012
9:59 am

Why cant the wild card team with the best record have a one game advantage in a 3 game series. Play the series as a double header and if the first place wild card team wins then series over but the second place team would have to double dip (win both). Now that would be fun!!!

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:00 am

The fact that ANYONE thinks we will get ANYTHING for Hanson is crazy logic….

Why don’t you think the Braves can get anything in return for Hanson, P-Town Brave ©? Or do you mean anything of real value?

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:01 am

No, the decline came and went – over ten years ago.

And one thing that has NOT declined like attendance and income – the cost of going to a game. It was those 3 mil + seasons that were the aberration – not the attendance we’re pulling in now.

cowdogit

October 9th, 2012
10:01 am

For thirteen million dollars,I believe the braves could find a better clutch hitter than McCann. Give me a break – Last place with RISP.

Ron

October 9th, 2012
10:03 am

go get sombody that can hit, you can’t teach hitting

Ron

October 9th, 2012
10:03 am

go get sombody that can hit, you can’t teach hitting

DS1

October 9th, 2012
10:03 am

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
10:03 am

My guess is Bethancourt restarts at Mississippi next season, and if he improves, advances to Gwinnett in the summer. Maybe he gets to Atlanta in September.

I’d look for signs of alien inhabitation if that guy were to make three levels in a year. :-)

Cecil34

October 9th, 2012
10:04 am

Lew, I do think the attendance decline from the 3 million mark that was being hit routinely in the late 90’s also has a lot to do with the decline of native Atlantans as well as income.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
10:05 am

scoots There’s much more wrong with his swing than just his length, from what I’ve seen.

im no expert, but to me it looks like every chance fransisco has to do something wrong in his swing, he does it. timing with his leg kick, the head, the swing itself, everything. id trade him for a bullpen arm for 2013.

Black Boortz

October 9th, 2012
10:07 am

I don’t know about re-signing McCann, but one thing I CAN say is this organization has pretty good track record of knowing just WHEN to get rid of fan favorites. It hurts to see these guys go, but the two cases Immediately come to mind when I think of the Braves parting with fan favorites: John Smoltz and Tom Glavine. The Braves were correct in both cases for allowing these two to walk. I can also look at Javy Lopez, and boy did Baltimore regret that one.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:07 am

The Braves drew 3+ mil for six seasons in the middle of their run of 14 consecutive championships – 6 times in the past 21 seasons. in 91 they pulled in 2.1 mil, 94 – 2.5, 95-2.5 96 – 2.9. – right in line with the numbers since 2000.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:07 am

For thirteen million dollars,I believe the braves could find a better clutch hitter than McCann. Give me a break – Last place with RISP.

If McCann goes, who’s going to catch, other than Ross, who likely can’t hold up to the daily grinding of being the regular, for reasons discussed?

DS1

October 9th, 2012
10:07 am

DAP

Depends on how teachable JF is. Otherwise, I’d agree with you. But you can’t teach that sort of power so you don’t dismiss him without giving it a lot of work and time.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:08 am

I’d look for signs of alien inhabitation if that guy were to make three levels in a year.

Stranger things have happened. And where is Bethancourt from, anyway? ;)

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:08 am

Cecil – I don’t know – maybe the loss of the natives is telling. But I really don’t think we ever really were a city destined to attreact that many fans long term. It’s just unrealistic.

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
10:08 am

“Last place with RISP.”

I’ve been wondering about that but hadn’t looked it up. If so, I’m not surprised.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:10 am

Except we don’t need more bullpen arms (got more coming up) and we DO need aback up third baseman.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
10:11 am

And where is Bethancourt from, anyway?

Panama. So, I guess he could go voodoo on us and purchase some pitch recognition and strike-zone judgement, LOL.

Couch Tater

October 9th, 2012
10:18 am

Not much in the free agent market will tighten the trade market. I don’t expect anything overwhelming this offseason.

So what’s the over/under

If, a 7 game World Series. 24 days + Winter Meetings 5 days = 29 days. Turkey Season.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
10:20 am

Bite the bullet and break the bank and get rid of Uggla. Prado to second, Josh Hamilton to left and David Wright at 3rd. See how simple it is?

Simple? Sounds more like stupid… We’re gonna pay to get rid of Uggla, pay for Hamilton (who struggles massively at times and will decline) and trade 2-3 top prospects for Wright.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:22 am

2014 Free Agent Catchers:

John Buck (33)
Jesus Flores (29)
Ryan Hanigan (33)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Wil Nieves (36)
Brayan Pena (32)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) – $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout

Blech.

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
10:23 am

I like Hamilton and have pulled for him since his substance abuse struggles. However, I don’t like the idea of giving him a long-term contract. He’s very injury-prone, he’s aging, and there’s always that “what if” factor. I’ll pass.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
10:23 am

I think we can do better than Juan as backup 3B (would prefer a better contact hitter). However, he does have power and is cheap. No need to trade him just to trade him.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
10:24 am

2014 Free Agent Catchers:…Blech.

Exactly.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:26 am

Panama. So, I guess he could go voodoo on us and purchase some pitch recognition and strike-zone judgement, LOL.

Bingo!

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:27 am

I think we can do better than Juan as backup 3B (would prefer a better contact hitter). However, he does have power and is cheap. No need to trade him just to trade him.

Who’s out there?

DAP

October 9th, 2012
10:27 am

DS1 But you can’t teach that sort of power so you don’t dismiss him without giving it a lot of work and time.

the braves dont have time to give him. hes not gonna start, because we expect to win, and hes likely to make too many outs to be worth it. i think the braves use him as a chip, let some team that has time to let him develop take a chance.

lew Except we don’t need more bullpen arms (got more coming up) and we DO need aback up third baseman.

you always need bullpen arms.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
10:32 am

a year ago, the reds traded fransisco for jj hoover. thats a good arm. braves ought to be able to get a comparable player for him this off season.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:32 am

I don’t think Bethancourt has it in him to develop into an legit MLB hitter in a single season, at least not based on his 2012 performance. Hope he pleasantly surprises people, but I wouldn’t count on it.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
10:32 am

Who’s out there?

Don’t you have to see if the team can re-sign Johnson, first? I would think the bench roster decisions kinda depend on whether he’s on the squad or not.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
10:33 am

Fontenot, Theriot, and Eric Chavez.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:33 am

Shortest distance between two points is a straight line. We need two outfielders. Straight line says that’s what we’ll get and not branch out in all sorts of different directions, looking to trade everyone fans have given up on, haven’t had much of a chance to prove themselves or tweaking positions that don’t need tweaking.

Keep in mind this is a 94 win team and not some 100 game loser that needs rerworking. Fill the needs that need filling with the best players we can find and play some baseball.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:36 am

I know Gattis was a long-shot and not really an option at any position, but I’m still sad that he got hurt. Would have at least made for an entertaining offseason, plugging him in to LF (or C) and coming up with more tales of his supernatural abilities.

Jeff R

October 9th, 2012
10:36 am

Shortest distance between two points is a straight line. We need two outfielders. Straight line says that’s what we’ll get and not branch out in all sorts of different directions, looking to trade everyone fans have given up on, haven’t had much of a chance to prove themselves or tweaking positions that don’t need tweaking.

Keep in mind this is a 94 win team and not some 100 game loser that needs rerworking. Fill the needs that need filling with the best players we can find and play some baseball.

I think that sums it up.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
10:37 am

Outside of Chavez, not much power…

Juan has power, but that’s about it. Very little contact, a poor eye, leading to many strikeouts. Doesn’t seem like the recipe for a good pinch-hitter.

raleighbravefan

October 9th, 2012
10:39 am

Sorry to hear about McFann…she was a spot of sunshine on the ever darkening blog. I have enjoyed the lively and (mostly) thoughtful discussions here since 2006. However, over this past year, (most notably since the Sept swoon), it has become increasingly a refuge for the clueless and imature whiners to collectively work each other up into a vitriolic and hateful frenzy. I have continued to come on, to pick up the few knowledgeable nuggets from the serious baseball fans, which have become a smaller and smaller portion of the discussion. I find that I have lost a lot of interest in most of what is being said here. Reminds me a lot of the current state of politics. You will likey hear a lot less from me, at least for the time being.

As Lew said, many of you should really feel proud of yourselves for bullying a teenage girl off of the blog. McFann, whereever you are, keep the faith.

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
10:39 am

“Fill the needs that need filling with the best players we can find and play some baseball.”

That’s pretty much what Wren said in his interview with DOB.

monty

October 9th, 2012
10:39 am

Francisco starting at 3rd is not an option for next year. We have to get someone either at 3rd or LF with numbers we can count on(track record). Francisco might provide some pop but doubtful it would be in key situations and he just doesn’t hit LHP. He could end up with a .215.,.280,.440 slash line. with his power coming in low pressure situations with tons of strikeouts. If Uggla doesn’t rebound then that would be 2 blackholes back to back in the lineup. Only proven players please.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:42 am

Sorry to hear about McFann…she was a spot of sunshine on the ever darkening blog.

She died?

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
10:42 am

I see as dangerous the notion that the SP is fine without adding a front-line starter. After Hudson, there just isn’t enough experience with the guys who will be asked to go toe-to-toe with the best pitchers in the league.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:42 am

raleighbraves – she said she’s staying in touch with several bloggers – CAB, VJ, Myself and a few others and might return (albeit briefly) sometime in the future.

raleighbravefan

October 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Murph – She got fed up with the hate, and has left the blog.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:44 am

Murph – No – she just got sick of a lot of the negative commentary, McCann and player bashing and left the blog – at least temporarily

DAP

October 9th, 2012
10:46 am

lew looking to trade everyone fans have given up on, haven’t had much of a chance to prove themselves or tweaking positions that don’t need tweaking.

theres alot of wisdom there. this is a 94 win team. but lets be real. this team, whether we like it or not, will be drastically different next season. we have some free agents, but most importantly, we have the face of the franchise over the last two decades gone. this team by necessity needs more than a tweak. thats just my opinion. i know chipper didnt play full time, but the hole he leaves is substantial. in addition to the holes in LF and CF, the bench needs to be rebuilt (or reassembled). almost all of those guys are free agents. there is at least one big hole in the bullpen, too. our inning leader is a free agent. so, im not seeing a straight line to getting this team ready to win 90+ games again in 2013.

BILLY JACK

October 9th, 2012
10:46 am

MEDLIN HUDSON BEACHY MAHOLM MINOR IS YOUR STARTING ROTATION RELEASE HANSON TODAY.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:47 am

scoots -This is the year when you’ve got to bring the kids up, let them show what they can do or trade them. Next winter is when they’ll revamp the staff (after this year’s evaluation), when Hudson and Malholm’s contract expire and they’ll have that additional $15 mil to play with..

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
10:48 am

Others have made great suggestions in their postings. I humbly suggest that the Braves need to target players from teams who have experienced success in the playoffs. The Braves as a whole have spit the bit come playoff time over the last ten of so years. Players like Uggla and Bourn rarely or never come up with a key late season or post season hit. We got them from losing franchises such as Houston and Florida.

I suggest we target players like Swisher or Victorino for the outfield. At least I can remember these players being clutch in the playoffs. There are certainly more targets out there to fulflll the Braves’ needs. I am tired of the team alway coming up short in pressure situations. I remember back in 1990-91, the Braves acquired free agents Sid Bream, Terry Pendleton, and Rafael Belliard. All three of these players had played with teams who made it and/or had some success in the playoffs. These clutch players (even Belliard) made big contributions for the Braves during a time when they had great young talent as well.

Brave New World

October 9th, 2012
10:48 am

Thankfully, we will not be the team that signs Josh Hamilton. He is injury-prone, has an addictive nature, and he struck out 162 times in 2012. He will want $25 million or more per season for 5-7 years. He will likely go to a team with deep pockets, and he will have unbelievable pressure to perform – this is a recipe for disaster (even if he stays physically healthy). For less than what Josh will command we can have both Shane Victorino and Angel Pagan, two switch hitters with speed. GO BRAVES!

Brett

October 9th, 2012
10:48 am

Wren is a Schuerholz wannabe. Fredi is a Bobby Cox poseur. The Braves will never win anything again until they’re both gone.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
10:49 am

It’s not like we need to deal JF. The return we would get is not going to be a huge piece, and unless he is packaged to go somewhere that desires him, then I’d say keep him and let him learn under the tutelage of Walker and company.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:50 am

DAP – I see what you’re saying, but disagree about what might be done about it. They’ll get the pieces they need and not mess with the areas thae relatively set. You lose a lot of clubhouse leadership with Chipper and 100 games of offense.The offense can be made up – and that’s another reason Mac won’t have his option declined – they need his clubhouse presence now that CJ is gone.

monty

October 9th, 2012
10:50 am

McFann, you are wise beyond your years in taking time away from here. “Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are pure,whatsoever things are lovely….think on these things.” Best wishes.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
10:51 am

There isn’t much good SP next offseason… Josh Johnson, Matt Garza, and Lincecum are the 3 biggest names. Doesn’t really compare with Greinke, Haren, McCarthy in my opinion.

I’d rather add that top SP this winter, especially since our guys outside of Huddy/Maholm are all “young”. Next year, they’ll all be a bit more seasoned.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
10:52 am

Tumbledown

How about Johnny Damon to PH off the bench? (he says only half kidding)

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:53 am

So McFann joins a long list of people who have taken their ball and gone home. I have no more tears to shed over the loss of another quality blog contributor.

I hope that the rest of you, at least the few of you that I like and have managed to stay the course through this season’s blog unrest, continue to utilize your scroll wheels and thick skins into 2013 and beyond.

Much like the Braves, we may lose some solid players, but the games still go on, regardless.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
10:53 am

OnlyBraves – You’ve already had your answer on that topic from Wren – The rotation and bullpen spots are already filled.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
10:55 am

Is there any indication that FW wants to hang onto any of the group of Reed Johnson, Lyle Overbay and Jeff Baker? How about Chad Durbin in the pen? (I’m guessing a lot might depend on what kind of contract they are looking for) — DS1

Since he says the bullpen will be intact, to me that likely includes Durbin, as he was one of the handful of key guys (not as big as Kimbrel and O’Flaherty, obviously, but as important as anyone else if you look at the entire season of work).

Off the bench, of those three I would say Reed Johnson is most likely to return, provided the contract is reasonable. He liked it here and Braves liked him a lot. But if another team offers significantly more, who knows?

DS1

October 9th, 2012
10:56 am

TOBF

The guys we will be adding next off season to the SP will be names like Beachy, Delgado, Teheran and Graham.

Why do we need to go out and get SP’ing when we are growing our own?

Murph

October 9th, 2012
10:56 am

What about Hinske? Are his Braves days over?

I sure hope so.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
10:57 am

DOB I missed the question about Fredi calling a bunt with one out and men on second and third with a nohitting pitcher up next. The announcers were apologizing for Simmons because he made a rookie mistake by bunting — bill

You missed it because it was asked — by me — in the group interview with Fredi immediately after the game. Go back to the quotes after Friday’s game, and Fredi answers the question about bunting in that situation.

monty

October 9th, 2012
10:59 am

I think if you can get a decent return for Hanson you have to move him. IMO he was protected moreso than any of our other starters by FG. As soon as he started looking tired or was about to get into trouble FG went and got him. So in other words, his ERA was protected from exploding to an even higher number if he had been given the chance to pitch through some situations. But he was treated much like a rookie pitcher. (Just couldn’t seem to make it through 6) FW thinks he just needs to build up his stamina,could be,or it could be that the 3rd time through the order, either the breaking ball isn’t as sharp or teams begin to sit on it.

Joe Cool

October 9th, 2012
10:59 am

Off-season Targets (free agent or trade): Zack Grienke, P (LAA), Ben Revere, CF/LF (MIN), Dexter Fowler, CF (COL), Wil Myers, OF (KC), Nick Swisher, LF (NYY); Prado moves to 3B with Juan Francisco backing up. Reed Johnson is the fourth outfielder. Pick up the options on BMAC, Huddy, and Maholm. Re-sign Ross and Moylan. Trade bait: Tommy Hanson, Delgado, or Teheran (Only in the right deal and if Grienke is signed; You have to give up something to get something.)

Lew

October 9th, 2012
11:01 am

DS1 – And if your plan is to utilize the young pitching, somewhere along the line you have to let them pitch and evaluate them at the big league level. This is the year.

N8

October 9th, 2012
11:01 am

“Keep in mind this is a 94 win team and not some 100 game loser that needs rerworking. Fill the needs that need filling with the best players we can find and play some baseball.”

I think my only concern with that (and it’s more a “cautious/curious” outlook), is that we were a 94 win team with Chipper playing above the level everybody thought he would in his final season when in the lineup and he was also the leader. Mac for a short while (and Uggla) played very well, but Mac’s possible injury could hinder him moving forward and who the hell knows what you’re going to get with Uggla? Add in that it’s not reasonable to expect Medlen to do for a full season what he did.

monty

October 9th, 2012
11:02 am

Announcers said Loshe was a free agent. Cant imagine St. Louis letting him get away, but the guy is filthy. Would love to have him.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
11:02 am

Chipper is a hall of famer no doubt. Before the Wild Card game, I argued extensively with a friend that he he is a first ballot hal of famer. But, I was thoroughly disappointed about everything he did in connection with the Wild Card game.

First, Chipper comminicates before the game that he knew it was time to hang it up because he was not nervous at all. I beleive at that point the team leader needed to promote enthusiasm and an attitude of laying it all out. Rather, it seemed to me that he was looking more forward to the end as opposed to launching a great playoff run.

Second, he makes the crucial error of the game that spins it in the Cardinals’ direction. Rather than recalling past glory plays by Chipper in the post season, this play recalled to me past playoff misteps by Chipper in the field.

Finally, his effort on his final at bat seemed to establish that he really wanted it all to end. Very disappointing. I know the Braves will miss his production, and he was a leader in many respects. He is a hall of famer (not a first ballot in my eyes anymore when considering his post season career). But, the Braves need new leadership in the clubhouse. That day is at hand.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
11:05 am

this is my mock 25 man roster for 2013 with the players under contract inserted where we can reasonably expect them to be. there are alot of holes to fill. i didnt assume on here that anyone will be re signed (although im pretty sure about david ross). also, im not absolutely positive that guys like o’flarety or fransisco will make it through the offseason without getting traded, and not sure that guys like gearrin or pastornicky will make the team.

Braves 2013 25-Man
Lineup
1. Brian McCann C
2. Freddie Freeman 1B
3. Dan Uggla 2B
4. Andrelton Simmons SS
5. Martin Prado 3B
6. LF
7. CF
8. Jason Heyward RF
Rotation
9. Tim Hudson SP
10. Tommy Hanson SP
11. Paul Maholm SP
12. Kris Medlen SP
13. Mike Minor SP
Bullpen
14. Craig Kimbrel CL
15. Jonny Venters (LHP) RP
16. Eric O’Flarety (LHP) RP
17. Cory Gearrin RP
18. RP
19. Christhian Martinez RP
20. Luis Avilan (LHP) RP
Bench
21.
22.
23.
24. Juan Fransisco 3B
25. Tyler Pastornicky INF

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
11:05 am

Why do we need to go out and get SP’ing when we are growing our own?

For the same reason you don’t let kids drink alcohol until they are at least a little bit grown up: maturity and experience.

What some here are saying is that the young pitching can go out on the town tonight, LOL, and let’s not quibble over that legal drinking age thing.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
11:05 am

I like our young pitching, but they haven’t proven anything yet. As a contender, we can’t really just fill 2-3 spots with them and hope they stick. Look at Minor and Delgado this year. Both almost lost their rotation spots (in fact Delgado did).

In our rotation next year, we’re counting on a 38 yr old (Hudson), a guy with 30 career starts who just had the best 12 of his young career (Medlen), another who had a good half-season (Minor), a 30 yr old who averaged a 3.66 ERA his last 2 years (and has had an ERA under 4.00 3 out of 7 years), and Delgado (who has made all of 19 career starts) or Teheran (who has 4)

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
11:05 am

In 12 seasons, Lohse has had a sub-4 ERA only 3 times. No thanks.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
11:07 am

Nathan – I think those are questions that could be asked every year with every team. Last year it was could Prado and Heyward come back to form (of course, they did) and could Hanson and Jurrjens return (some and not at all).

Always going to be questions no matter the year or the team. I’m much more concerned with filling those outfield positions. Prado will give us a full year offense at third (not just 100 games) and better defense by far than Chipper. Like I said before – I’m more concerned losing Chipper’s presence than his bat or glove. But it all hinges on who FW gets to fill those outfield spots.

Joe Cool

October 9th, 2012
11:08 am

I didn’t mention Bourne, but with Boras as his agent, we are not going to be the team that over pays for his services, so he’s not likely to resign in my mind. He’ll be looking for Carl Crawford money and we all see what happened to Carl Crawford after age 30. Sorry Michael thanks for the year and half of solid baseball.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
11:09 am

I’d look for signs of alien inhabitation if that guy were to make three levels in a year.

A September call up is, in my view, hardly a three level jump. He could very well be called up in September much like Boscan was called up. Spend all the post-minor-league-play time sitting on the bench and then start the next season at AAA.

He gets called up mid-season, then I’d think it was a three level jump brought on by a surprise outburst in talent and productivity, or a colossal meltdown of talent and productivity throughout the entire organization.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
11:09 am

Forgot to mention – NO, unlikely that Meds pitches like he did for a full season, but then again, it’s also unlikely that MInor pitches like HE did the first half and much more likely he pitches like he did after the AS break.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
11:09 am

The guys we will be adding next off season to the SP will be names like Beachy, Delgado, Teheran and Graham.

Heck, even Brandon Beachy only has 40 career starts! Didn’t pitch a full season yet (had an oblique issue in 2011, elbow this year)

The rotation has some “ifs” in it.

Double Zero Eight

October 9th, 2012
11:12 am

Trade Hanson while you can still get somene of value.
Get a big bat. The Braves have enough starting pitchers.
Give Tehran and Delgado a chance, or trade them
Without the addition of a big bat, it will be “one and done”
in the playoffs again.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
11:13 am

Lew

I agree that 2013 is the year that a couple of those guys must get some serious innings in the bigs. Teheran and Delgado.

TOBF

Starting pitching is not going to be reliable until they get some experience. See answer to Lew above. We can’t just expect these guys to come up and get a handful of starts and then be at their potential. Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz all required some seasoning.

Gotta run folks.

Thanks DOB for the response on the bench.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
11:15 am

OnlyBraves – Well, Delgado only was up because Hudson was hurt – otherwise, he likely would not have made but a couple of starts late in the year. As for Minor? I think maybe you have to look at his second half performance and admit that he’s turned into a much better pitcher already than many believed was even possible.

Somewhere along the line, the Kids need to pitch and to prove themselves – it’s just the nature of the beast. Since we’re already hearing form the “we won’t ever win anything ever again crowd a mere three or so days after a pretty damned good year, why not give them their shot – I mean we’re going to lose anyway……..

DAP

October 9th, 2012
11:18 am

lew You’ve already had your answer on that topic from Wren – The rotation and bullpen spots are already filled.

thats not what he said, and not how i read it. besides, havent we learned that what the GM doesnt always mean what we think he does when he says something?

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
11:19 am

it’s also unlikely that MInor pitches like HE did the first half and much more likely he pitches like he did after the AS break.

2.16 ERA is likely for Minor next year? I’m expecting an ERA near 3.70 or so.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
11:19 am

Bottom line is this: We have some very good and talented prospects that are on the cusp of making it or not in the bigs. They will take some time to develop, but if we (the Braves) truly believe they have what it takes to be mid to top of the rotation arms, it would be wise to bring them along and not go chasing after someone else’s already developed starting pitching ($$).

Pitching can be so fickle. Pitchers seem to get injured much moreso than position players. Any time you go after someone else’s gem, you risk losing that guy for a year or forever to injury.

Better to risk it on your own prospects who don’t cost you nearly as much.

Now, if you don’t think they have what it takes, then trade them before everybody else finds out too!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
11:24 am

Starting pitching is not going to be reliable until they get some experience. We can’t just expect these guys to come up and get a handful of starts and then be at their potential.

Of course… I’d just like to have a good #1-2 leading them.

I’ve already outlined next years’ rotation. 2014 is looking like : #1 Medlen, #2 Beachy, #3 Minor, #4 Delgado/Teheran, #5 Graham/Gilmartin

I’m also taking a look at the FA market… we have better options available this year rather than next (when Frank will add at least 1, I’m sure). I’d go ahead and get the SP out of the way now.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
11:24 am

What about Hinske? Are his Braves days over? — Murph

Writing’s on the wall with that. Hinske knew, it seemed, when they were cleaning out lockers. They’re gonna miss him a lot in clubhouse. But just hasn’t produced past two years to warrant bringing him back.

Kwajbraves

October 9th, 2012
11:24 am

@ Joe Cool: I like the Myers idea a lot but I don’t thik he is available. It would take alot to pry him away from the Royals. Cain may be a more realistic option.

Odelay

October 9th, 2012
11:24 am

Agree with you there, Lew. I like our chances with Minor next season. Also, Meds won’t have to pitch like Verlander all year to be a solid contributor, so with those two guys and Hudson, we have three good pitchers, even if we don’t have an elite ace-type of arm. Not a terrible state to be in before you even enter your offseason. Some teams would kill for that.

The biggest focus will obviously be CF, which they’ve already said they would address in way that would also solve their leadoff problem. Wren has shown he’s very good at filling out a bench, so I wouldn’t worry about that. You have think there’s no way they let Ross leave, especially with B-Mac banged up. One things is imperative, though, and that’s improving the infield defense. We’ve made a string of embarrassing early exits from the postseason recently because of it, so its time to do some tweaking there. If only we could dump Uggla on someone…

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
11:25 am

You’ve already had your answer on that topic from Wren – The rotation and bullpen spots are already filled.

…besides, havent we learned that what the GM doesnt always mean what we think he does when he says something?

So true. His interview-immediately-following-season-ending-heartbreak is usually not indicative of what moves he’ll make.

He look at what’s out there and what makes sense for the team. As he said, he’s trying to build a team, not add a player. He could very well make all sorts of moves no one saw coming. That’s generally what is stated as most plausible in off-seasons past, stands to reason it would still be the same this off-season.

On another note, those are just rumors from MLBTradeRumors. One could hardly lend them any credence.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
11:27 am

DS1

October 9th, 2012
11:29 am

TOBF

Let’s assume that next year is Huddy’s last. Might not be, but that would be a logical assumption. How about Maholm? If he does well in 2013, you’d probably sign him up for a couple more years.

And if you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin and Graham for 2014, why would you need to add another arm this winter???

It’s not like we have an overabundance of money to spend to go out and get big salaried pitchers “just in case” we need them.

And in all this discussion, we are still not talking about the fact that it’s possible that Hanson could fill a role with us too. I am not ready to write off anyone with that sort of stuff, weird release or not.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
11:33 am

I am not ready to write off anyone with that sort of stuff, weird release or not.

What sort of stuff? The stuff that keeps getting deposited 10 rows back of the CF wall?

Hanson hasn’t had “that sort of stuff” in 2+ seasons.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
11:36 am

And if you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin and Graham for 2014, why would you need to add another arm this winter???

The team isn’t going to have all those guys for 2014. I could not tell you which will not be present. Wren has stated that this off-season he has holes to fill and that the available players on the free agent market are not all that appetizing. As such, there will be trades and it takes talent to acquire talent.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
11:36 am

How about Maholm? If he does well in 2013, you’d probably sign him up for a couple more years.

Why? He’s likely to be no more than the fourth best pitcher on the team in 2013, let alone the year after.

In my view, the best option is to trade both Hanson and Maholm, pick up a stud pitcher, give Teheran the fifth spot, and pencil Beachy into take Hudson’s spot in 2014 (assuming Hudson retires). That allows Medlen and Minor to pitch at lower slots and get more favorable matchups in 2013, and gives them a chance to get more experience before asking them to front the rotation.

The FO may not think that way, but that’s how I see it. Might as well get it out there in front of the Winter Meetings. :-)

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
11:41 am

I think next year is Maholm’s last as well… we have another who may be ready to go. He’ll be 32, and isn’t a dominant pitcher. He’s currently our 4th best pitcher. Not a must-have.

Also, we won’t have all the pitchers you named. I bet that at least 2 of them are gone before 2014.

Medlen, Minor, Beachy, etc. may be good pitchers. They haven’t shown enough though. I’m not ready to call them 1-2s yet. It’s a good rotation, but not great. I’d love to have an ace that strikes fear in opposing hitters, especially in the playoffs.

Jimmy

October 9th, 2012
11:45 am

My three days of mourning are over.
Good to see some regulars on here.

My take is that we have three needs: 3rd, CF and catcher. And as mentioned before, FA catchers list is thin.

Arizona Brave

October 9th, 2012
11:46 am

DOB
You said Hinsky has not done anything in the last two years to warrant bringing him back,what about Uggla who has not done anything in the last two years and is a everyday player?

Kwajbraves

October 9th, 2012
11:46 am

What sort of stuff? The stuff that keeps getting deposited 10 rows back of the CF wall?

The painful truth but somehow you made it sound funny. lol

chipontheroad

October 9th, 2012
11:47 am

I hope Rodger McDowell wants a change of scenery and someone hires away Tosca

Trey

October 9th, 2012
11:50 am

I do like Hinske, but letting him go seems like it is the best option.

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
11:50 am

Arizona Brave, Hinske’s contract is done. Uggla has three more years at 12 mil per year. Very different situations. And also Uggla has still contributed significantly more than Hinske.

Jimmy

October 9th, 2012
11:50 am

“what about Uggla who has not done anything in the last two years”

Kind of stretching that out a bit, aren’t you?

Hater.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
11:53 am

DS1 Let’s assume that next year is Huddy’s last. Might not be, but that would be a logical assumption. How about Maholm? If he does well in 2013, you’d probably sign him up for a couple more years.

And if you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin and Graham for 2014, why would you need to add another arm this winter???

you make alot of assumptions there that i wouldnt make. if im wren, i add a starter if i think i can get one about has good as huddy for a good price. this offseason.

scoots In my view, the best option is to trade both Hanson and Maholm, pick up a stud pitcher, give Teheran the fifth spot, and pencil Beachy into take Hudson’s spot in 2014 (assuming Hudson retires).

this is absolutely a solid plan.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
11:54 am

Back to the question that was asked of me before I was rudely interrupted w/ a work meeting (seriously I’m just kidding about that as I wouldn’t even be able to afford to keep the internet w/o my job)

Anyways, no, I don’t feel Hanson by himself will net ANYTHING of worth….and to think we can just throw Hanson in and get Alex Gordon is preposterous….

I mean jeez guys….yeah lets send Uggla out and move Prado to 2b and bring in Hamilton and while we are at it, we can make Paul Janish into a 20 hr guy and implode Turner Field and have a brand new park we don’t lose elimination games in all prior to next April….

Now….can you see how ridiculous that all sounds?

Yeah, about as ridiculous as some of the “fantasy draft” type speculation on here…..

I mean cmon guys, most of these trades you’re proposing won’t work on a video game, let alone w/ an actual human GM….

Murph

October 9th, 2012
11:54 am

Gotta save a few trade pieces for the 2013 trade deadline… I’m sure there will be some unanticipated needs by then.

I just hope Hanson is moved by then… I’d hate for his value to drop even lower after a miserable spring and 1st half.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
11:56 am

Oh, and for all the people riding on McCann…

Cmon, how many of you have actually played that think you could still swing a bat w/ the greatest of ease and not lose your power w/ as bad as his shoulder was?

benchwarmer

October 9th, 2012
11:56 am

Yea some of the trade ideas are pretty silly. Like wanting Constanza to be a regular player is silly. BMac is still the best option at catcher until it is proven his injuries and vision problems have permanently impaired his offensive abilities. With no offense BMac is less than steller.

N8

October 9th, 2012
11:56 am

I’m not what to expect ERA wise from Minor, mid-3.00’s I suppose. But one thing I think he’s finally gotten over the hump on is using so many pitches to get through 5 innings.

I don’t think anybody ever saw him being an Ace. But I’d like to see him turn into a 3-4 guy (maybe a 2) that eats innings and always gives you a chance to win. Kind of like a Denny Neagle in his prime maybe?

Bottom line is this. Even if only by 1/3 of an inning over Huddy…. Minor led the team in innings.

That’s a good sign for him being a productive pitcher moving forward.

benchwarmer

October 9th, 2012
11:57 am

And in my opinion Hanson is done. Just like JJ.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
11:59 am

Ugla’s done nothing the last two year? Not sure how you figure that one. In 2011, he was first in HR for NL 2B and second in RBI and in 2012, he was 3rd (out of 15 2B in the NL) in HR, 2nd in RBI and 2nd in OBP. And haven’t we heard often enough that BA doesn’t mean anything?

Streaky as hell? Yep. Frustrating when he isn’t hitting? No doubt about it. But done nothing? Not so. Offensively, he’s one of the best in the league at his position. – if in fact, you look at the numbers.

Nowhere Man

October 9th, 2012
11:59 am

Some good posts about Chipper E. Jones. He threw it away and mailed it in. HOF for regular season but not in the post season.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
11:59 am

Murph-

Even lower than what exactly?

Every scout who has looked at Hanson has not looked at the 13 wins…..they looked at the WHIP, the vastly declining velo, and the flatness that became of the breaking ball as the season went on….

I can’t see many thinking he has any worthwhile value at the moment.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
12:00 pm

P-Town: What about Delgado as the centerpiece, Hanson is a potential high-reward throw-in, Salcedo, and Spruill all together for Gordon.

We get a LF w/ good avg. and some pop (though he is LH), and the Royals get 1 good young pitcher, a 2nd pitcher who may become something, + 2 solid prospects. Not to mention, they open up a spot for their prized OF prospect, Wil Myers.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:01 pm

All excellent ideas on the starting rotation folks! It’ll be fun to see which way FW goes.

I just lean towards developing as much of your own talent as possible. Granted you can’t always just use your prospects, but the more the merrier.

Murph

I was thinking about that wicked curve when I talk about Hanson’s stuff.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
12:01 pm

I don’t think anybody ever saw him being an Ace. But I’d like to see him turn into a 3-4 guy

That sub-3 ERA in the second half has raised unreasonable expectations for many here, I believe.

N8

October 9th, 2012
12:01 pm

“Like I said before – I’m more concerned losing Chipper’s presence than his bat or glove. But it all hinges on who FW gets to fill those outfield spots.”

Lew, I absolutely agree with this. That being said, i believe that Prado has the respect of his teamates and as much as all we’ve been talking about the past couple of years is this being “Heyward’s” team moving forward… I think it’s Prado’s team. If you’re looking for a veteran to lead the youngsters.

Guy never complains. He’s been moved around all over the field, batting order spot has covered the entire lineup, he plays hurt and from all accounts is a damn hard worker (not saying everybody else is not), but Prado has the makings in my eyes of a guy that is going to make a fine manager or coach some day. Very much in the mold of TP from my angle.

Far and away my favorite Brave and I like a lot of these guys. I like everybody else questioned his ability to stay healthy with how “all out” he goes, but when healthy I think he’s one of the better players in all of baseball. He does everything well and appears to be a lead by example kind of guy.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
12:02 pm

I just hope Hanson is moved by then… I’d hate for his value to drop even lower after a miserable spring and 1st half.

Even lower? It’s only 6 feet under.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
12:03 pm

I just hope Hanson is moved by then… I’d hate for his value to drop even lower after a miserable spring and 1st half.

Even lower? It’s already 6 feet under.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:06 pm

Lew-

Great points there….

Thing is, some don’t realize that the Braves have so many issues on offense NOT because Uggla is so streaky, BUT because the team as a whole players wise has way too MANY streaky players…

Look at the Cardinals….Beltran and Holliday are both streaky players….they get on really prolonged hot streaks, but as Aug/Sep proved, they can get on really prolonged cold streaks as well….difference is, they also have steady eddie guys like Allen Craig, Jon Jay, and this year Yadi Molina….

Outside of Prado, the Braves don’t really have guys that play like that….and they need more….and thats what I would look for as replacements….along w/ guys who hit LHP well…..and that could go hand in hand w/ finding players that make more contact as well……now this wont go with the 35 HR Willingham masher theory, but I think we could find some good players that adhere to this….

N8

October 9th, 2012
12:07 pm

“That sub-3 ERA in the second half has raised unreasonable expectations for many here, I believe”

perhaps. But hey, even Glavine only 6 of 22 seasons with an ERA under 3.00. So if people are expecting THAT from Minor, that’s just silly.

I think that Minor and Medlen will be that much more effective once there is a couple of power pitchers in the rotation as well. Just to give teams different looks in series. I think back to the 93 rotation with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Avery. Two LH pitchers, two RH pitchers. One from each side to provide power and finesse. Just kept teams off balanc.

If Maholm is in the rotation next year (meaning if they don’t trade him), it would be wise to separate him and Minor in the rotation. I guess that’s the angle I’m speaking from.

But I also think our softer throwing “location” guys like Minor and Medlen make the bullpen fireball guys that much more intimidating late in games when they’ve been lulled to sleep with the changeups all night.

But in the end regardless of velocity it comes down to location. If Minor locates well, he’ll have success. As he showed in the second half. His command was night and day from anything we’ve seen from him before July 31.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
12:07 pm

Nathan – Martin’s definitely a role model. The only thing about him that’s ever bothered me is that dirt thing on walk off wins.

N8

October 9th, 2012
12:10 pm

LOL Lew. I supose that is a little weird.

But you know what? I hope we see a whole bunch of it next year!

DM

October 9th, 2012
12:10 pm

The Braves are not really serious about winning. They(GM and Manager) don’t seem to have a clue. They traded a power pitcher who throws 95 mph for a guy who throws 85 at the trade deadline. They don’t seem to see that the teams that win have power pitchers as starters not 5 guys that throw 85 to 90 miles an hour. If they were serious, they would pay a second basemant that hits .220 over 12 million dollars. It appears the Braves main issue is to stay under the 90 million per year budget, but the problem has been they do not make good decisions on who they pay(Lowe $ 11 million, Uggla $ 12.5 million, and others I will not name because it may upset some people)

The Braves will not win big until they have at least 3 power pitchers that can throw in the 92 to 96 mph range and have at 3 players hitting around .300 and the rest hitting at least .270. You can not win with most of you players hitting under .270. and none of your starting pitchers throwing over 92 mph.

I have been a Braves fan since they got here in the 1960’s, and want them to win so badly, but the are not going to win until managerment and the owners REALLY want to win. I mean the have to spend more money but make much better decisions that the Uggla, Lowe and the 5 very good prospects they gave to Texas Rangers for a third baseman they rented for about a year.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
12:11 pm

I think that Minor and Medlen will be that much more effective once there is a couple of power pitchers in the rotation as well.

You’ll have to point them out to me when they show up; I’m not sure I’d recognize them in this rotation. :-)

DS1

October 9th, 2012
12:11 pm

Lew

Somebody needs to take Prado aside this winter and tell him that the dirt thing is not a good idea. That would suck if he got some dirt in somebody’s contact lenses.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
12:12 pm

There’s one thing that sets both Minor and Medlen apart from most young pitchers – they have confidence in what they do – and that’s the most important advance that Minor made this season. He started to believe in himself and the improvement followed almost immediately. I think he’s way underappreciated. People didn’t like him from the time he was drafted, yet he’s exceeded all expectations and there’s no reason he can’t continue in that regard.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:12 pm

TOBF-

I think thats pretty unreasonable even given the package….

You’re talking about a guy who they moved out to LF because of his bat, but has developed into the premiere defensive LF in the AL and is more than likely on his way to his 2nd consecutive Gold Glove award….in fact, if the Royals are shuffling any spot to open for Myers, it’d be more likely to be in RF or at 1b….recall, they have the black hole of OBP in RF.

Also, I once again must reiterate that it would take nothing short of a Top 10 MVP candidate for me to want to include Delgado in a deal…..THAT is how strongly I feel about him as a pitcher for the present and future of the Braves….

And yes, I know we just about gave him up for 2 months of the Dumpster…but we didn’t and I think maybe they ought to revisit how stupid that would have been….

Also, FWIW, I think Minor is a 3 that if he just had the confidence Medlen has, could develop into a 2…if he continues to work on his secondary pitches, I could easily see him being a 2 with the current staff…..that said, 2/3 whatever, its all a crapshoot because we never really know who is going to develop ahead of the curve and who is going to bottom out….just look at Beachy and Medlen for the first statement, and Teheran for the latter (so far)

George_George

October 9th, 2012
12:14 pm

raleighbravefan

October 9th, 2012
10:39 am
Sorry to hear about McFann…she was a spot of sunshine on the ever darkening blog. I have enjoyed the lively and (mostly) thoughtful discussions here since 2006. However, over this past year, (most notably since the Sept swoon), it has become increasingly a refuge for the clueless and imature whiners to collectively work each other up into a vitriolic and hateful frenzy. I have continued to come on, to pick up the few knowledgeable nuggets from the serious baseball fans, which have become a smaller and smaller portion of the discussion. I find that I have lost a lot of interest in most of what is being said here. Reminds me a lot of the current state of politics. You will likey hear a lot less from me, at least for the time being.

As Lew said, many of you should really feel proud of yourselves for bullying a teenage girl off of the blog. McFann, whereever you are, keep the faith.
*************
Good morning all
Hope McFann did not feel bullyed off the blog, she was and is a bit of sunshine and fresh air. She is to young to retire. Hope she comes back.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
12:14 pm

Nathan – Like DS1, I’m just concerned about dirt in someone’s eye – and we all know about this team’s vision issues. But yeah – I’d sure like to see lots of those celebrations next year and see Martin rewarded with a four year deal that keeps him hitting second for Atlanta.

Jimmy

October 9th, 2012
12:15 pm

At the risk of being called a “McCann basher” and a “bully”, let’s visit the issue of Brian McCann.

We have an option ($12mill I think), but he may miss up to 5 months after he has surgery (if needed). Considering his knee problems and this shoulder issue, is that $12 mill best spent on that option?

I know he is a fan favorite and all, but just thinking about it. Is there a chance the Braves don’t pick up the option and go another route?

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
12:15 pm

“In 12 seasons, Lohse has had a sub-4 ERA only 3 times. No thanks’

Yeah the guy’s a bum. 16-3 this season and was a stalwart in their rotation last season getting them to the playoffs. Oh yeah, think he was the winning pitcher Friday. A bum I say.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
12:16 pm

You’ll have to point them out to me when they show up; I’m not sure I’d recognize them in this rotation.

You’ll have to look down to see them. In fact, it might help if you simply stopped looking simply at the Randy Johnson eye line level.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
12:19 pm

Jimmy – No. They have no one to replace him – Betancourt’s not ready (and may never be offensively) and Ross isn’t a 130 game a year catcher. In addition, they have enough to do this winter replacing Chipper and Bourn without looking for another catcher, too.

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
12:20 pm

Chew on this for a minute:

MLB just finished inking a new deal with TBS and Fox regarding National broadcast rights,

Starting in 2014 each club will receive $50 mil annually, or an increase of $26.28 mil over the 23.72 they now receive. It is an 8 year deal. This money also includes the recent ESPN deal with MLB

The Atlanta Braves, starting in 2014, will have $70 mil in the till, before even selling one ticket Poor Liberty Media

Murph

October 9th, 2012
12:20 pm

Hanson has some value on the trade market. Think of what he is and not what you expected him to be. He’s a 4th or 5th starter. Even as a 4th or 5th starter, though, he does have some value.

He might only fetch a bench bat or bullpen arm… but even a bench bat or bullpen arm has value to the club.

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
12:21 pm

I forgot to note the other $20 mil comes from the Regional Sports Network

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
12:21 pm

Okay at the game on Friday and too depressed to comb through these pages for confirmation. DID FG give a safety squeeze to Simmons or did the kid take it upon himself????

Please tell Simmons pulled a rock and inexperience got the best of him!

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
12:24 pm

DOB
You said Hinsky has not done anything in the last two years to warrant bringing him back,what about Uggla who has not done anything in the last two years and is a everyday player?
— Arizona Brave

To begin with, here’s a key difference, Arizona Brave: Hinske is not under contract and is thus owed zero going forward. Dan Uggla is owed $13 million in each of the next three seasons ($39 million total).

And believe me, I wish they were bringing back Hinske. Really good character guy, great presence in clubhouse, always upbeat and fired up.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
12:24 pm

Jimmy, 5 months would mean McCann may miss about a month or so of the regular season. If we assume that the injury issues were the main culprit in his poor season, which I think is reasonable, picking up his option is just fine.

Lew

October 9th, 2012
12:26 pm

Frankie – Fredi took credit (or blame). Said he called for it.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
12:30 pm

darn… so my top 2 targets will be tough to get… not even for *gulp* Teheran would KC bite?

Trey

October 9th, 2012
12:30 pm

How’s nolie doing?

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
12:31 pm

Arizona Brave and DOB, Also, while Uggla’s no Gold Glover, he has more defensive value than Hinske. Uggla is also a secondbaseman who, as disappointing as he’s been, has produced at around a league-average level with the Braves. Hinske looks done on offense and is below replacement level on defense. And of course, that’s before we even get in to which player is under contract and all of that.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
12:31 pm

I see we were swamped with mr multi-name again last night. a million new names all saying the same thing. Poor guy must have absolutely no life at all….

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
12:31 pm

P-Town – Maybe I missed it in one of your posts, but who do you think we should target this offseason? I agree that we need some steady-eddy type hitters, especially with the streaky players we now have like Uggla, Freeman, etc. Hopefully, Simmons can develop into a fairly consistent hitter. In assuming that Bourn goes elsewhere, should the Braves target Victorino, and would we have a realistic chance in getting him?

Given our budget restraints and bad TV deal, I think we pretty much have to stick with our young pitchers and pick up the relatively cheap options on Hudson and Maholm. We have a nice core of relievers including the best closer in the game. We have some great pieces, but need some more Prado-like players to balance out the lineup.

I know Turner Field cannot be razed, but I wish sometimes that Braves’ fans would ditch the chop and chant for some good ole-fashioned noise at the ball park. A little change in atmosphere could not hurt. I almost feel like the chant activates something in the players’ brains like “must choke at bat, must make key error.” This I propose in a mostly kidding but somewhat serious tone.

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
12:32 pm

Wow, that is just a horrible, horrible call if the case. 4th inning only down a flippin run and playing not to lose. I had a feeling he would play it way conservative. Runs have been a premium understand but that is just a bad approach of Managing if FG called that with pitcher on deck.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:33 pm

FWIW, I don’t agree w/ ppl just leaving the blog because of what someone said….

Jeebus….no offense to McFann, but you gotta have a thicker skin than that….or maybe we need a disclaimer of being a grown-up to visit here….

The Lohse commentary….let me bring up what I have heard around here….Dave Duncan, pitching guru, found a flaw in his mechanics and his delivery AND most importantly his thoughts on attacking hitters —- he thought he was a power pitcher and wanted to blow everyone away….

Once Duncan fixed his mechanics, changed his delivery, and altered his way of thinking…it took a couple years, but completely changed his game….became a completely different pitcher….

That said, as much respect as I have for the guy, he is aging, and he’s still a Boras client….so thanks but no thanks….

Besides, I believe Frank when he says we really have no interest in going hard after a pitcher….granted that could change once he sees the landscape of the market, BUT I don’t think that would change his opinion on Kyle Lohse….maybe Zack Greinke, but not Lohse.

Jimmy

October 9th, 2012
12:34 pm

Lew – Yeah, I know we don’t have anything to replace McCann with, I was thinking more of a trade for a replacement.

Shaun – Yeah, April/May return (if needed). But is that worth the money – not knowing what you are going to get?

I just don’t think this gets the attention it deserves.

3rd and LF is mentioned, but the catcher position concerns me alot.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:36 pm

Tumble-

Thats why I am curious about what Wren means about spending and looking at “premium” players….

Because it almost sounds as if theyre willing to put more money out there if necessary BUT as you and I both know, we have heard this tune before….

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
12:38 pm

My argument with Lohse is not that he should be seriously looked at(although I would have some initial discussions). Keep reading on here how average the guy is throughout his career. Good points P-Town. The guy was steady eddie last season leading his team to the playoffs. Not a very good postseason last year, but he is a big reason they got there. This year he’s been outstanding. 220 inning with 30 something walks. The guy has learned how to pitch, been my point all along. The Cards would be wise to resign for sure.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
12:41 pm

Shaun: Agreed. I was just stating the most obvious contractual difference between the two players, in terms of future status with the team.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:41 pm

Tumble-

I have mentioned Span or Revere for CF, whomever MIN is more willing to part with as I think they would fit with what I have in mind for the leadoff spot….Revere is from ATL so he’d seem to fit even better BUT he’s also younger and pre-arb so I doubt theyre looking to really part w/ him….

I also have mentioned Victorino, but that seems to rub some the wrong way because he is aging and his production was down last year….

That said, look at his 2012 numbers v lefties (outstanding), the fact that he’d give you GG defense in LF with the arm to back it up, and if you don’t put him in the leadoff spot, he’s a pretty good player….

Outside of that, I’d really have to look into things….I think Torii Hunter still has plenty left as long as you don’t give him more than 2 years and he’d also give you GG D in LF and can hit plenty, especially against lefties….but thats just throwing a name out there that would be affordable and would love to play for the Braves.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:43 pm

Frankie-

Thing is, from what it sounds like to me, he will walk….

I don’t have any real true reasoning why, but I look at Detroit to be a team that might get in on him…..would be a good park for him to pitch in too

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:45 pm

DOB-

Thing is, you or I could go in and be a great clubhouse presence….

After so much, you still have to be able to produce….and he hasn’t….so thats why they are where they’re at with him….

I would like to think they’ve realized the bench needs a massive upgrade after finishing near the bottom in every statistical category as far as pinch hitting goes while seeing the 1st place Nats finish near the top.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
12:45 pm

Lots of good stuff this morning.

Wren might think the rotation is fine, but I think there is a big hole in the front of it. Imagine what it would do to add a guy like James Shields to the #1 slot? A shame that we don’t match up with them. We match up really well with teams like Minnesota, Baltimore, Toronto and Kansas City and don’t really match up with teams like Tampa Bay, Arizona, and St. Louis.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
12:45 pm

Jimmy, you don’t know for sure what you are going to get anywhere. You just made as educated a guess as you can. That’s what projecting players is all about.

And with most players who have a year so far out of the ordinary while still pretty young, it’s usually always the result of injury. So it’s very reasonable to make the educated guess that McCann will get fixed in the offseason and come back to being a middle-of-the-order type catcher. If he does that, he will be worth the option.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
12:46 pm

I think Hunter either stays with the Angels or goes to the Rangers to be closer to his family. Don’t forget his son has had some trouble with the law recently in Dallas… although he’s now committed to play football at ND, so that may not weigh as heavily.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
12:47 pm

That sub-3 ERA in the second half has raised unreasonable expectations for many here, I believe.

I still see a #3 starter ceiling. I don’t expect a sub-3 from the kid for 200+ innings.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
12:49 pm

This offseason seems to me to be especially crucial for Wren and the Braves. If he can make some acquisitions at key areas in the same vein as the Braves of 1990-91 (veterans like Pendleton, Bream, and Belliard), the Braves will be able to stay up there with the top teams given their midde-of-the-road payroll. None of the players acquired before the 1991 season were considered superstars, but their steady-eddy influence on the Braves melded quite nicely with the yourg star players.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
12:49 pm

You’ll have to point them out to me when they show up; I’m not sure I’d recognize them in this rotation.

Gotta love the Cardinals bringing Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly and Trevor Rosenthal in the game yesterday with all of them hitting 95mph+. Rosenthal hit 100mph.

Oh yeah, and they have Shelby Miller sitting on the bench with Carlos Martinez and Michael Wacha ready in Triple-A.

Of course, it looks like they will need a couple of em with Garcia going down and Lohse exiting via free agency.

single white dove

October 9th, 2012
12:50 pm

I wouldnt mind seeing David Wright at third….

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
12:51 pm

DOB, yes, contract is a huge factor.

But it seems that commenter also was saying Uggla and Hinske basically offer the same value. So I wanted to point out also that that is not the case.

Seems like Uggla is getting a bad rap among many because of what he hasn’t been for the Braves. But he actually hasn’t been all that bad. Most teams would be okay with a league-average offensive secondbaseman that can keep the team afloat defensively, even if that’s not what they expected.

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
12:51 pm

Give David Wright $20 mil a year AND Josh Hamilton $25 mil a year. Given that Chipper made $14 mil, we paid Derek Lowe $10 mil to not pitch, and Jair Jurrjens at $5.5 mil was a waste..and letting Bourn’s $7 mil walk as a free agent (total of almost $37 mil)…..it would only cost us $8 mil to sign Wright and Hamilton.

If Frank Wren can packed a trade of Tommy Hanson and Dan Uggla to a team like the Dodgers who need pitching….that would not only free up the money to over the $8 mil difference, but also free up more money to pay for signing Cody Ross (while Hanson only made the ML minimum in 2012..he’s due a substantial raise in 2013 because he’s eligible for arbitration) to play left field…which would allow Prado to move back to 2nd base.

Projected 2013 Lineup:

1. Jason Heyward (RF)
2. Martin Prado (2nd)
3. David Wright (3rd)
4. Josh Hamilton (CF)
5. Freddie Freeman (1st)
6. Cody Ross (LF)
7. David Ross/Bentecourt (C)
8. Simmons (SS)

Now that’s a lineup with some punch…as well as some left-rightly balance.

Sure, some of you may question having Heyward hit leadoff. However, he has the speed to steal a few bases..plus he can draw walks. Besides….Rickey Henderson hit leadoff with power for many years.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
12:51 pm

I’m not sure I’d have the guts to trade away Hanson and Maholm. You’d have to be sure in the player you get for the front of the rotation. Probably wouldn’t be comfortable going that route with Dan Haren.

Certainly Shields…..but then, that’s what? 5 trades Wren is going to make this offseason. He does need to work overtime this winter, but that’s asking a lot. :)

Steven

October 9th, 2012
12:51 pm

Somebody below was talking about Prado at second or third, and wondering if they might try shopping Uggla. Another option is to try Uggla out at third. If you think about it, he’s constantly being thought of as a poor fielder, but that’s not what I’ve seen. What I’ve seen is that he’s a great fielder, and extremely quick and sure with the glove, but has horrible range. Honestly, that would fit much better at third than second.

toby

October 9th, 2012
12:52 pm

I love the Braves,but it’s the same problem that has haunted us since 91,no hitting what so ever with RISP,especially during post season??? It’sas if were cursed when the calender turns to october?And one more thing,i would shop Hanson and see what i could get,he is by far the weakest link of our starting pitcher’s and would not start 1 more game for me!!!!

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
12:54 pm

I do not want Chad Durbin back. Many relievers are a year to year thing, and I think Durbin is a guy you shake the hand of and thank him for his 2012 – but any more than that, and it is probably going to get sour in 2013.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
12:55 pm

Victorino would seem to be a good fit. He might be extra motivated to get his production back up. I have heard that Todd Cunningham from the minors has the potential to take over centerfield. How close is he, if at all, to being ML ready?

DAP

October 9th, 2012
12:55 pm

Somebody needs to take Prado aside this winter and tell him that the dirt thing is not a good idea. That would suck if he got some dirt in somebody’s contact lenses.

or they might break a nail or ruin their blouse! :roll:

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
12:57 pm

Efrim-

Thing is, I don’t see Shields as someone I’d go all out for to get either though….

If you’re wanting that true shutdown #1 ace, I’m just not seeing it w/ him

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
12:58 pm

Steven, I disagree on your assessment of Uggla. His range actually often impresses me. He tied for 3rd with Brandon Phillips and Daniel Descalso in RF this season among NL 2B. His arm is probably the worst part of his defense. I would venture to guess most of his errors are on inaccurate throws. Playing 3B would expose this even more.

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
12:59 pm

*among MLB 2B

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:00 pm

Steven – I believe Uggla is against a shift to third base. Does anyone remember Uggla saying something a couple of years ago about not wanting to play 3rd?

Dick Dodge

October 9th, 2012
1:00 pm

DOB, “And believe me, I wish they were bringing back Hinske. Really good character guy, great presence in clubhouse, always upbeat and fired up.”

My question: Are the Braves running a social club or a ball club? Dude stank up the place as a pinch hitter..both in 2011 and 2012.

Really fans of the Braves want to see the Braves win. We need guys who can deliver in the clutch. Pinch hitting is not an easy art. Yet we spent money on two guys (Hinske and Diaz) who were counted on to be our top two pinch hitters off the bench. And what did we get in return? SQUAT!

I think that Rusty Staub and Manny Mota could have come out of retirement and produced more than the “Enos/Cletus” (of Dukes of Hazzard fame) lefty-righty combo.

STYLIN

October 9th, 2012
1:00 pm

REPLACING CHIPPER AT THIRD IS A NO-BRAINER…..GET DAVID WRIGHT!!!!!!

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:01 pm

Guys, cmon now….David Wright is NOT coming through that door….nor is the pipe dream that is Josh Hamilton!

Steven –

Yeah, just what I want to think about….Uggla making a play ranging to his left and throwing off one foot…

Tumble-

I have heard the name, but I cant say i’d think he’s close nor do I think he’s right now considered starter type talent

George_George

October 9th, 2012
1:01 pm

I have been a full time BRAVES fan since I moved to NC mid-summer 1995, so I have been really following braves for CHIPPERS career. I was very disappointed with him last friday. On the way to ballpark he said he was not nervous, when I saw that I had a feeling he would not play well, that he just wanted game to be over so he could go home. Wish he had givein it full effort. Don’t get me wrong I think CHIPPER is a great HOF player and in his later years a very good team leader, but it did seem full effort was not there last Friday.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:01 pm

Thing is, I don’t see Shields as someone I’d go all out for to get either though….

If you’re wanting that true shutdown #1 ace, I’m just not seeing it w/ him

I think the move out of the AL East would make him a Cy Young candidate in the National League.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:01 pm

I’m not trading for Shields… good pitcher though. If I was trading for a pitcher, I’d rather have Price. However, I wouldn’t like either trade because we would be in essence trading 3-5 pitchers for 1. Not a good matchup.

Go to free agency. Get Zack instead (if we were to get a pitcher)

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
1:01 pm

Ugh I was looking at postseason stats… He was 7th in the MLB in 2B RF. Still above average though.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:02 pm

Uggla for Cliff Lee???

Steven

October 9th, 2012
1:02 pm

DAP, with the problems that both Freeman and McCann had this year with their contacts, I wouldn’t be so quick to roll my eyes at what the guy said.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:03 pm

Shields is already 30 as well…

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:03 pm

Gutierrez for CF

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:06 pm

I agree. Stars like David Wright and Josh Hamilton are simply not coming to the Braves. The team cannot afford anymore to have a big chunk of its payroll go to one player. And, we cannot afford to execute any Texiera-like trades for any one player. We need all our young talent.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:08 pm

DS1- Uggla for Cliff Lee???

Why settle. How about Uggla for Justin Verlander?

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
1:08 pm

“My question: Are the Braves running a social club or a ball club? Dude stank up the place as a pinch hitter..both in 2011 and 2012.

Really fans of the Braves want to see the Braves win. We need guys who can deliver in the clutch. Pinch hitting is not an easy art. Yet we spent money on two guys (Hinske and Diaz) who were counted on to be our top two pinch hitters off the bench. And what did we get in return? SQUAT!

I think that Rusty Staub and Manny Mota could have come out of retirement and produced more than the “Enos/Cletus” (of Dukes of Hazzard fame) lefty-righty combo.

Amen to that. I don’t want a Yunel but echo hearing enough on how great these guys are in the clubhouse(no knock on DOB) but hear this a lot through the organization.

Victorino is a guy who I would have loved in the lineup the last 5 yrs. I don’t know if he has anything left but that kind of player and attitude is what this club needs going forward.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:09 pm

Ok, I will sweeten the pot. How about Uggla, Hanson, and Constanza for Verlander?

Trey

October 9th, 2012
1:09 pm

There’s nolie polie! How are you?

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:10 pm

Yeah DS1, just what I want….a CF who has played 130 games in the last TWO years and has performed like a career minor leaguer….

.308 career OBP…..why not just bring back Jeff Francoeur…

I guess his upside is he does defend and hit lefties well…..

One-Eyed Mac

October 9th, 2012
1:13 pm

DOB: Any sense as to whether the Braves would consider bringing Reed Johnson back if the price was right. I think he’s a good bench player/4th outfielder to keep around.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
1:13 pm

p-town and if you don’t put him in the leadoff spot, he’s a pretty good player….

why cant you put him at leadoff? i guess if you think he will OBP .320 from here on out…but career wise he gets on base better than michael bourn. i wouldnt have a problem getting victorino and batting him 1st.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:13 pm

sure Tumble, they will be glad to take what we don’t want for a superstar pitcher. Happens all the time….

Hi Trey, doing pretty good ,except for all the negativity here I guess

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:13 pm

Frankie-

2012 v LHP:

.323 .388 .518 .906

Career v LHP:

.301 .373 .508 .881

Thats Victorino….looks like someone who could be useful considering our MAJOR issues against LHP

chipontheroad

October 9th, 2012
1:15 pm

All the redneck, Teamsters,Red sox fans I work with say we got hosed,by umps and J Torre. when I say we need to trade them a pitcher for one of their young out-fielders they go into an introspective mode

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:16 pm

Nolie, I guess I should refrain from making sarcastic posts. Mine obviously fell flat.

Trey

October 9th, 2012
1:16 pm

nolie, I don’t blame you. This blog is always pretty negative.

DAP

October 9th, 2012
1:18 pm

steven DAP, with the problems that both Freeman and McCann had this year with their contacts, I wouldn’t be so quick to roll my eyes at what the guy said.

dude, your right. better go ahead and ban water bottles, sunflower seeds, and shaving cream too. heck, dont even high five. we saw what happened to mccann this year on a high five. its just not worth the risk. everyone just nod approvingly.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:18 pm

DAP-

I just don’t think Victorino is a guy who is good in the leadoff spot….

Yeah comparing him to Bourn is one thing, but frankly, Bourn can’t really bat anywhere else unless he went to the AL and batted 9th…

Look at Shane’s stat lines….he is a MUCH better 2 hitter or 6 hitter….wherever you’d like to put him….me, if we could couple him w/ a Span or Revere at the top, you could conceivably have 1-3 then who can steal 30 bases and move Prado to a RBI slot at 6.

chipontheroad

October 9th, 2012
1:20 pm

I’d keep Hanson and let him be our long reliever next year while working on his strength and what-not

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
1:20 pm

Frankie-

“2012 v LHP:

.323 .388 .518 .906

Career v LHP:

.301 .373 .508 .881

Thats Victorino….looks like someone who could be useful considering our MAJOR issues against LHP”

Wow, didn’t realize he hit lefties so well this past season. Yeah he wouldn’t hurt us too bad would he. Guy is a winner regardless of what people think of him personally.

Bourn was just mediocre second half. Going to be interesting to see how they handle CF.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:22 pm

Headley for LF/3B

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:22 pm

one can reply to sarcasm with more sarcasm Tumble

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
1:23 pm

Brava, October 8th, 2012, 11:08 pm … “I see no reason to think Uggla won’t turn it around.”

My only real concern with this statement is that there was no obvious reason for Uggla’s extreme struggles this year. No injury.

He just had a very bad several months of a season (good April, decent September).

All the other recent players who have had an off-year have had an underlying injury to either get them started in a bad direction or keeping them from performing.

Prado and Heyward rebounded this year and should continue to improve. McCann will probably come back to form next year.

McLouth eventually rebounded in Baltimore.

Hopefully Uggla will bounce back. Since there was no obvious reason why he struggled, there’s no reason to think he will stop struggling. Just have to wait and see.

Greg Norton retired.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:23 pm

would not mind Victorino at all as long as the contract isn’t too long.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:24 pm

I guess I could see either Victorino or Pagan in CF next year. Can’t see them re-signing Bourn or brining in Swisher or Upton. I think the price tags on all will be crazy.

Interested to see what Pagan gets. Probably in line for a three year deal worth $8-10 million per year.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:24 pm

Oh and another Victorino stat line FWIW:

.333 .376 .507 .883

Thats his line @ Turner Field

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:25 pm

c’mon guys, Smilin’ Frank says they can straighten Dan out real quick next time….why worry?

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:26 pm

Headley for LF/3B

I just don’t see how it makes sense for them to trade him, Wayne. He’s becoming a great player and they just inked Quentin to a long term deal, locked Maybin up. Seems like they want to win, and they do have a great farm system with a lot of depth. Just don’t think he’s on the move.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:26 pm

Victorino for 2 years, option for a 3rd maybe.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:27 pm

I agree, the window to get Headley for a reasonable cost is prolly closed

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:27 pm

DS1-

Pardon my french but you’d have to get Sanduskied to pry Headley away from the Padres

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:27 pm

Gutierrez is only marginally worse than Bourn, for half the money. Wouldn’t cost much. Send a big package to SD for Headley.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:28 pm

I could see a scenario where Willingham is traded. Harder for me to see it with San Diego/Headley.

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
1:29 pm

Hanson’s value right now is higher than it was to start the season. He’s got some issues with fastball command and endurance. But, nothing point to him being “not healthy.”

As long as he can start the season as no worse than a fifth starter, there’s every reason to believe that he will end the season with very high value.

Hanson’s situation is utterly not comparable to Jurrjens’s situation. JJ, a pitcher known for injury concerns from his Detroit days, ended a season on the DL. In his come-back, he only rarely demonstrated the ability that had led him to a sub-3 era in his first couple of seasons.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:29 pm

not sure why Shane would sign something that short TOBF, I would think it would take 4 guaranteed, maybe more. Prolly does not want to hit FA again in his mid-30s if he does not have to.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:29 pm

TOBF-

I’d be ok with that….

You’d get him at his age 32, 33, and possibly 34 seasons….and the thing about him….he is a plus plus defender if put him in LF and he is still stealing bases at a great clip (39 of 45 last year)…oh and he doesn’t get thrown out stealing quite near the levels of Bourn….

Like I said, if we could add him to another speed threat in CF, we’d have one heckuva upgrade on the basepaths that could help our ability w/ RISP and manufacturing runs

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm

Nolie, Touche.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm

What’s the deal with Pence? I’ve heard that he may be too costly for the Giants, don’t know if it’s true. If so, he may be a target.Hits lefties pretty well for his career and even home/away splits. 20-25 HR a year power.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm

How about Teheran, Bethancourt and …………. brace yourselves, ………………… Simmons.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm

DS1-

Only marginally worse….

Thats like saying Mac is only marginally worse than Rossy at defense….

As I said before, you can’t steal 1b….and he doesn’t get on so….

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:31 pm

not sure why Shane would sign something that short TOBF, I would think it would take 4 guaranteed, maybe more. Prolly does not want to hit FA again in his mid-30s if he does not have to.

He picked the wrong year to have a stinker, nolie. I’m not seeing four guaranteed years for him.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:31 pm

Nolie-

I really cant see anyone giving him a 4-5 year deal at his age…

DS1-

Don’t make me smack you through the PC…..Simmons is BEYOND OFF LIMITS!

DAP

October 9th, 2012
1:32 pm

too soon, p-town. it probably always will be.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:32 pm

I could see a scenario where Willingham is traded

After the year he just had, hopefully not the Braves. Not at the cost of Graham,Delgado,Teheran. Spruill/Salcedo, yes.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
1:33 pm

Anyway, I believe my posting regarding the Braves is generally positive and constructive, although I have no tolerance for posters who state there is no hope for the Braves.

It seems like Todd Cunningham is a good centerfield prospect, but he is probably at least a year away. Hopefully, the Braves will go after someone like Victorino to at least help their toughness quotient.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:33 pm

Guiterrez is onea those guys who could easily drop a 230/280 type season on you and his CF defense has dropped off quite a bit since his 2009 super year

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:34 pm

Pence has been a good enough player, it’s a really tough call on whether they’ll tender him a contract – it was a really bad year for him too. I still see them doing so. They don;t have many outfield options.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:34 pm

at 31? I can see 4 years. I sure don’t see him taking 2 even with an option.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:35 pm

P

We played quite well w Janish at SS

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
1:35 pm

Amen to that. I don’t want a Yunel but echo hearing enough on how great these guys are in the clubhouse(no knock on DOB) but hear this a lot through the organization. — Frankie

First of all, nobody I know is advocating bringing back Hinske. Quite the contrary, I said he hadn’t produced past two seasons to warrant it.

Secondly, I have already mentioned Victorino at the top of my list of guys I’d go after if I were the Braves and Bourn isn’t re-signed.

And finally, this has to be stated because some on this blog have a entirely irrational obsession with Yunel Escobar: Nevermind that, as the world has finally realized — even some of you skeptics who mocked the Braves’ standing ovation for Alex Gonzalez, I think, finally have your heads out of the sand on this one — Yunel just isn’t a good teammate and has worn out his welcome in Toronto just as he did in Atlanta.

But forget his character issues. Let’s pretend he’s a motivator of men and a fiery team leader. (I know, it’s a reach but work with me here.)

Please explain to me what is it about a player who had an anemic OPS of .655 in 2010 and .644 this season, who has averaged roughly 8 homers and 50 RBIs the past three seasons, who is 29 years old yet has never had more than 26 doubles, six stolen bases or 145 games played in a season in his entire career , who hits for little power, doesn’t draw walks and isn’t a Gold Glove-caliber defensive player, what about that player is it that you want on your team? Or that even leads you to mention his name at this point. Please, do tell.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:36 pm

I’d like to shoot for more than Franklin Gutierrez. Wouldn’t mind him if we were focused more on a starter and a LF banger…but based on yesterdays comments, it seemed like Wren wanted to place more importance on CF/leadoff.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:37 pm

Victorino went from .279/.355/.491/.847 (130 OPS+) in 2011, possibly his best year ever, to .255/.321/.383/.704 (91 OPS+) in 2012.

That has to give a GM some pause, I’d think.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:38 pm

at 31? I can see 4 years. I sure don’t see him taking 2 even with an option.

32 on opening day next year and I think the poor year are going to scare a lot of teams. I see three years guaranteed as the max.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
1:38 pm

you are assuming that my comment was about you Tumble, it was much more generalized about the glut of negativity from dozens of posters the last few days

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:40 pm

I wouldn’t mind Victorino or Pagan…..I just wish the funds were allocated towards a frontline starter instead.

DS1

October 9th, 2012
1:40 pm

Efrim My idea exactly. Headley is the banger.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
1:45 pm

I just wish the funds were allocated towards a frontline starter instead.

As do I. That’s why I like Jay/Bourjos so much… good CF, both with good D. 1 hits every year, 1 hit well in the year he started. Both are cheap.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
1:47 pm

Just one more thing for the remaining members of the Yunel fanclub: Of the 193 major leaguers who had at least 400 plate appearances this season, his .644 OPS ranked 181st.

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
1:47 pm

“But forget his character issues. Let’s pretend he’s a motivator of men and a fiery team leader. (I know, it’s a reach but work with me here.)

Please explain to me what about a who had an OPS of .655 in 2010 and .644 this season, who has averaged roughly 8 homers and 50 RBIs the past three seasons, who is 29 years old yet has never had more than 26 doubles, six stolen bases or 145 games played in a season in his entire career , who hits for little power, doesn’t draw walks and isn’t a Gold Glove-caliber defensive player, what about that player is it that you want on your team? Please, do tell.”

LMAO, what was that? DOB, my point was everybody in Braves Country is tired of the good guy chemistry BS and want producers man. Nobody ripping you hear about advocating for Hinske?????

I despise Escobar more than anybody and have stated frequently. Still Hinske played a role, big role in 2010. Nothing since, see you later.
Folks here want guys who contribute with their bats and make plays with their gloves to win game. No to Escobar, no to Hinkse.

Not sure I understood your diatribe there my man.

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
1:48 pm

Again who the hell is advocating Escobar??? Maybe I am missing something.

Fairbrave

October 9th, 2012
1:49 pm

I think Headley is the answer even if he cost a lot. We have depth. Headley producing 20-30 hmrs and over 100 rbi’s is hugh. Leave Prado in left and get BJ Upton for center. Now you have at least six guys with over 20 home run power and with our pitching hard to beat.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
1:49 pm

32 on opening day next year and I think the poor year are going to scare a lot of teams. I see three years guaranteed as the max.

He could get all crafty and play the one year deal in hopes of a longer deal next off-season. If I’m not mistaken, there would be fewer CF next off-season on the market.

Would love to see Headley and Sheilds on this team with who-ever they wish in CF. Get those two and I’ll tolerate Biff dining on his bat.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
1:49 pm

I despise Escobar more than anybody and have stated frequently.

I think you’re gonna have to stand second-in-line to O’Brien on that one, my friend. :-)

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:51 pm

DOB-

If it were you, would you be looking at Victorino for LF or CF?

While he played a lot of CF with the Phils, it seems he’s more natural of a LF as he ages…..would be a GG caliber LF with the ground he covers, but IMO just an above average at best CF….

How do you feel about Denard Span or Ben Revere?

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
1:53 pm

Hah, scoots I have brought up that piece of garbage out of the blue(not O’Brien) relishing how bad of a season he was having and enjoying it immensly. Maybe worded it wrong and he obviously didn’t take it the way intended.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:56 pm

Would love to see Headley and Sheilds on this team with who-ever they wish in CF. Get those two and I’ll tolerate Biff dining on his bat.

Hah! I wish we had the prospects to pull that off…….

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
1:57 pm

DAP-

Yes too soon, but you get my point on what it would take to net Headley….

I think we’d be seeing another Tex like haul….

And no….don’t get me wrong guys, I’d love to see the guy in a Braves uni, I just cringe at the package it would probably take

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
1:57 pm

How do you feel about Denard Span or Ben Revere?

Not a Revere fan. Doesn’t walk or hit for power. Entire offensive game is tied into BA. He’s a lot like Juan Pierre.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:01 pm

Not a Revere fan. Doesn’t walk or hit for power.

Sooner or later, you’re gonna have to decide how ugly a girl you’re willing to take home, ’cause Miss America usually ain’t around at closing time.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:02 pm

Braves staff was one of the best in baseball the last few months, not sure why some of you think that they would spend money on another pitcher

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:03 pm

We’re already missing out on Miss America… the Angels may keep him.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:04 pm

Get those two and I’ll tolerate Biff dining on his bat.

Sorry, but there are some things that cannot be tolerated while there are mirrors into which a man must look. Bat-licking Biff-diners must be rooted out before they become a pox on America.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
2:04 pm

Braves staff was one of the best in baseball the last few months, not sure why some of you think that they would spend money on another pitcher

I can understand if Wren decides to put all of the money in the outfield. Doesn’t mean it’s what I’d do or I think it’s the best way to create a stronger run differential for 2013. ;)

DAP

October 9th, 2012
2:05 pm

ptown would you be looking at Victorino for LF or CF?

you didnt ask me, but i say CF, no doubt, no question.

efrim Not a Revere fan. Doesn’t walk or hit for power. Entire offensive game is tied into BA. He’s a lot like Juan Pierre.

pierre has been a pretty good player. putting the ball in play and running it out has worked pretty good for him. if revere hits like pierre, he’ll do alright for himself. especially since he apparently plays better defense.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:05 pm

not sure why some of you think that they would spend money on another pitcher

Because I said they should, dammit.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:05 pm

Frank don’t wait for no closing time, he is more of a wham bam kinda guy

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
2:05 pm

Sooner or later, you’re gonna have to decide how ugly a girl you’re willing to take home, ’cause Miss America usually ain’t around at closing time.

Hey, I’m talking about Shane Victorino joining the Braves here. It’s bad, scoots. Anything to keep them from overpaying for Michael Bourn. Sure, bring in Ben Revere to hit .290/.320/.340. ;)

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:07 pm

I find it hard to believe that 20mil will be spent on 2 OF and a vet bench bat.

flange1

October 9th, 2012
2:08 pm

Efrim,

I think that the Braves will either get a really good LF/3B or a really good CF. Don’t think they can get both.

I would rather spend the money on the LF/3B guy and get a Revere or Bourjos for center.

In my mind, go for the defense in CF with some speed. IF their BA is 99% of their OPB, ok it is what it is.

It just gets too expensive to get a better offensive player out of CF.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:08 pm

Frank don’t wait for no closing time, he is more of a wham bam kinda guy

That’ true. He obviously subscribes to the theory that, if you’re gonna go ugly, best to get it over with while you can still get a decent amount of sleep. :-)

Braves Junkie

October 9th, 2012
2:09 pm

On paper the Braves look solid; however, in reality no one is intimidated to play the Braves. We scare nobobody. It’s time to bring in a Fred McGriff type of player. Something that will add excitment and real hope for winning a pennant. I would not trade the last 20 years of winning baseball for anything due to the fact the previous 20 years were a nightmare.

Please go get Jose Bautista from Toronto and put Prado on 3rd.

flange1

October 9th, 2012
2:09 pm

TOBF,

Your obsession over Greinke is getting almost scary.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:11 pm

obsession is always scary

DAP

October 9th, 2012
2:11 pm

flange1 It just gets too expensive to get a better offensive player out of CF.

i kinda feel the opposite of you. because, i think its easier to put together a decent/good LF option than it is to get a CFer. defense is a must in CF, so if you can get a pretty good hitter that is competent in CF, that goes along way. LF? platoon that sucker. get me jonny gomes and seth smith. i have no problem with that.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:12 pm

mayhaps we can bring back Klesko and Ice

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:15 pm

the best way to create a stronger run differential for 2013

I just want folks to consider this: the loss of Bourn and Prado in the OF is going to amount to a fairly serious number of defensive runs saved going away, assuming they actually get a banger for LF (an .850 guy who is also a great defender? Sure. You bet.) and actually get a decent defensive replacement in CF. Without really putting a pencil to it, I’d estimate that the run-prevention loss would be just about equal to…

a stud starting pitcher.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:19 pm

I’m just obsessed w/ an ace… be it Greinke, Shields, Price. Greinke is the easiest to get. Haren and McCarthy are probably good #2s, but not as good as Zack.

defense is a must in CF

Bourjos! Bourjos! Heck, even Jay is a good defender.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
2:19 pm

Braves Junkie – I would not trade the last 20 years of winning baseball for anything due to the fact the previous 20 years were a nightmare.

I have been a big fan since the mid 70’s. The twenty years before 1991 was not a completely bad. Life was good in 1982 and 1983 when the Braves were competitive, and players like Dale Murphy, Phil Niekro, and others were great to support. I do understand what you are saying, though. Many other teams would gladly trade their last twenty years with the Braves.

Getting Baustista does not seem feasible, as we would have to part with much of our young talent. The Braves need to maximize their young talent going forward, and I would not advocate any more Texeira-like trades.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
2:23 pm

DOB, I agree that Yunel shouldn’t be at the top of any wish lists, purely for the distraction factor. But if we were to assume he’s a great clubhouse guy, I think a team could justify playing him at short.

He actually is a very solid defensive player at the shortstop position. No matter how bad he hits, there’s value in that. He was no worse offensively this season than JJ Hardy, Alexei Ramirez and Mike Aviles. So I think he’s good enough, on a pure performance level, to hold down shortstop for a major league team. It’s a matter of the distractions he brings.

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:23 pm

I believe Revere would be a great get for Braves, 24 years old and pre-arb. He is a good contact hitter who can learn strike zone with proper coaching. I would offer Delgado and feel good about it as a fair trade,Twins in dire need of pitching.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:24 pm

Could we land Josh Willingham for Tommy Hanson or Paul Maholm plus 1 prospect?

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
2:26 pm

I like the Braves’ starting staff going into next season. I think Hudson, Medlen, Minor, Maholm, and either Delgado or Teheran can put us in a playoff position by next year’s trading deadline. I agree with the sentiment that our limited resources should go into upgrading the outfield and third base. Wise choices in that regard can keep us competitive with the NL elite. People far smarter than me have made great recommendations on this blog as to who to add.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:26 pm

lets just pass on Revere

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:26 pm

Hey, make it a Willingham and Revere and problems are fixed on offense.

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
2:27 pm

I think you’re gonna have to stand second-in-line to O’Brien on that one (Escobar Disdain), my friend.

A-HEM!! {Cough, Cough}

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
2:28 pm

Shaun – But if we were to assume he’s a great clubhouse guy, I think a team could justify playing him at short.

I think the ship has sailed on this assumption.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
2:28 pm

Revere struck out 54 times in 553 PA this season.

Bourn struck out 155 times in 703 PA this season.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:28 pm

Hey, make it a Willingham and Revere and problems are fixed on offense.

Shoot, in that case, give ‘em everybody. :-)

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:29 pm

Simmons is even better on D and will hit at least as well

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:30 pm

don’t care Murph

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:31 pm

Could we land Josh Willingham for Tommy Hanson or Paul Maholm plus 1 prospect?

Doesn’t really fix their longterm pitching needs though… I’d like that trade though, esp. if the prospect isn’t a major one.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
2:32 pm

Tumbledown, right. I was addressing DOB’s post about assuming Yunel was a great clubhouse guy and why a team still might not want him.

My argument is that he’s good enough to at least hold down a job, on a pure performance basis (or at least was even in his rather poor 2012 season). It is all about the distraction that Yunel creates, which I’m fine with at this point. The eye-black thing was definitely the last straw.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
2:33 pm

Hey, someone needs to tell Alex Rodriguez there’s no such thing as a great hitter being terrible in the clutch. Right?

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
2:33 pm

I believe Revere would be a great get for Braves, 24 years old and pre-arb. He is a good contact hitter who can learn strike zone with proper coaching.

Revere in CF and Trumbo in LF for CB. That’d make him happy. :)

Murph

October 9th, 2012
2:35 pm

don’t care Murph

You should.

I know nothing about Revere other than what I just gleaned from 30 seconds on baseball dash reference dot com, but he seems like a decent young player. Add in the fact that he’s an Atlanta native and he could be a good fit. Depending on the cost, of course.

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:36 pm

Efrim, I would be dancing in Atlanta with that combination. :-)

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
2:36 pm

I believe that the Twins would have to be really wowed to move Willingham. Keep in mind he’s one of the big three that puts butts in the seats, and even though they finished last in their division out drew the Braves in attendance by 350K

And by wow I’m talking about more than a pitcher who is considered damaged goods, plus some mid level prospect

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:36 pm

Tommy Hanson and Randell Delgado

for

Josh Willingham and Ben Revere

Not sure if the Twins would like the overall deal but they need Starting pitching bad. But this deal would only cost the Braves around 4 million after salaries are swapped. We’d still have around 17-20 million to work with. Or we could have interest in Denard Span as well which of course would change the deal. But in terms of team needs were a great match to get some kind of deal done.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:39 pm

why should I care, Ks are not that big a deal, and a leadoff hitter usually comes to the plate with nobody on, so as long as his OBP is Ok what does it matter about Ks?
Revere has a relatively poor OBP which is much greater sin that a lot of Ks
and 19 extra base hit? even at leadoff doubles and triples are a big help, stuff Revere!!!!!!!!

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:40 pm

Va, would need more that that I believe. scoots and I would give them more. lol

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:41 pm

Tommy Hanson and Randell Delgado for Josh Willingham and Ben Revere

I don’t know that many teams would trade two everyday position players for two pitchers, straight-up.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:41 pm

That’s intruguing… I don’t want to trade Delgado in a deal for Willingham, but if Span is added maybe. I don’t want Revere though.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:41 pm

It might take Hanson and Deldago to get Willingham alone. two years left, if he moves it will take some talent to get him I think

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
2:42 pm

Revere struck out 54 times in 553 PA this season.

Bourn struck out 155 times in 703 PA this season.

Revere has a career OPS+ of 79, a .319 OBP, a total of 57 walks in 1,064 plate appearances, a .323 slugging with 0 homeruns.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
2:44 pm

I don’t know that many teams would trade two everyday position players for two pitchers, straight-up.

Not gonna happen. We’d need to add more to the pot.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:44 pm

CB, the thing is, neither team is likely to maximize its assets in a single, all-purpose trade like that one. Mitigates against blockbuster trades, all the time.

MiaBchBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:45 pm

Another indictment on Frank Wren’s inability to evaluate hitting: while we sign the Garrett Anderson’s and Troy Glaus’ of the world, players like Raul Ibañez and Carlos Beltran are viable contributors to their respective playoff teams, to say nothing of their clutch performances down the stretch.

If those players would have failed as Braves… well, you cannot speculate on such things. That said, the fact that Atlanta is the place where Hitting goes to die needs to be something that people much smarter than Wren must hunker down in a bunker somewhere and really, REALLY examine, so that mistakes like Dan Uggla do not happen again.

This team will NEVER be a viable playoff team so as long as they hit .230 – with putrid RISP numbers – in September baseball.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
2:45 pm

nolie, look at Bourn’s numbers when he was 24.

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

OBP can improve in young players with proper coaching, I do agree he lacks power but good contact hitter.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

I doubt they would have much interest in Hanson either

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

Ya know what team will be fun to watch this winter? Texas. Lots of moving parts. Lots of depth. Sort of like St. Louis.

I’d rank the Rangers and Cardinals as the two most talented teams in baseball when considering major league and minor league talent. Both are loaded.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

Hey, someone needs to tell Alex Rodriguez there’s no such thing as a great hitter being terrible in the clutch. Right?

Okay…I’ll bite…Rodriguez in the postseason: .271/.380/.484 in 70 games and 309 plate appearances.

Where’s the evidence that he’s not clutch?

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

To me Josh Willingham is the perfect fit. He’s RH power hitting LFer who makes sense for our payroll. But he is 34 years old and would be a big step down defensively in LF from 2012. So we can’t go overboard trying to get em.

Deep Breath and Reload

October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm

It has to be some type of curse or something. If something bad is gonna happen, it’s going to happen to the Braves. I’m not talking about getting to the playoffs or just getting close. Those factors alone are enough to make lotza people pull their hair out. I’m talking about infield fly rules. I’m talking about a future Hall of Famer’s defensive blunder opening the floodgates in a game that had win written all over it. I’m talking about Eric Hinske hitting a go ahead homer late in a playoff game and having it taken away the next inning by Brooks Conrad. I’m talking about Lonnie “Skates” Smith not being able to pick up the ball and not scoring in 1991 which SHOULD have been the A Braves first World Series Championship. IT goes on and on and on.
And who’s fault is it? Damn if I know! I don’t think it’s any individual’s fault. I think it’s a curse or something. Too many bad things happen at the wrong time year after year after year.
Which leads to my point. I don’t care if the Braves get a middle of the road free agent or a superstar like Hamilton. I don’t care if the Brave sign Greinke or Joe Blow. I don’t care if they trade for a real “difference maker,” I don’ t think it will make a difference. I don’t think it really matters. The Braves can lose with mediocre players and the Braves can lose with superstars. They have done it in the past.

Someone in the organization needs to find out which spirit they have whizzed off and get a witch doctor to come in and make peace. Obviously players don’t seem to have the ability to make that “Peace.”

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:47 pm

It might take Hanson and Deldago to get Willingham alone. two years left, if he moves it will take some talent to get him I think

More likely a package, yes. That’s eight years of club control for Willingham’s two, and his contract number makes that equitable.

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
2:48 pm

I personally would like to see a straight up trade to the Blue Jays involving Yunel Escobar for Simmons. Rumored Yunel does a great “Gangnam Style” and would lead the team to their positions on the field with this dance. I think it would spike attendance.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
2:48 pm

Efrim, it’s going to be very interesting to see what goes on with Andrus. I think he’ll be traded. I think it’s Profar’s time.

Also I think Ron Washington is gone.

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:48 pm

scoots, agreed in most cases but Twins are pitiful in pitching and may be willing to go for more of a blockbuster than most teams.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
2:51 pm

If the Twins trade all of their offensive talent for pitching, aren’t they just sort of creating the same problem they have now, only backwards?

Patrick

October 9th, 2012
2:51 pm

1. Move Prado to 3rd. Wren knows Prado is best in the infield.

2. Do NOT sign McCann. He’s done. He’s going to miss significant time no matter who gets him next year. We could use his salary for so much more good.

3. Sign Josh Hamilton to three years 50 millions, with a team option. He’ll replace McCann’s left-handed bat in the middle of the lineup.

4. Sign Bourn but not for anything over $10 million a year. I know, that means he is gone. Fine. He’s a strikeout machine that wears down at the end of the season. He’s valuable but up to a point.

5. Rebuild the bench. We had too many black holes (Hinske, Wilson). Please find someone to compliment Johnson.

6. Let Maholm walk. I’d like to have a second left-hander of course, but we need to give Delgado or Tehran some burn. Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Hanson, and Delgado or Tehran.

7. When Beachy returns, give him the Medlen treatment by letting him finish out the season in the bullpen. Don’t rush him back into the rotation…instead, get him ready to take Hudson’s slot in 2014.

Frank Wren, you’re welcome

I pretty much agree with all of your points, I doubt we’d be able to land Hamilton for that few amount of years. But, I agree with your suggestion of sigining him.

If they McGuirk, Schuerholtz and Wren REALLY want to contend. If they are REALLY serious about putting a winning product on the field. Bourn needs to be re-signed and Josh Hamilton is about the only available option to replace Chipper.

HOWEVER. The Braves are NOT serious about winning a world series. They do NOT care about putting out a product on the field for the fans. So unfortunately, I do not see either of those 2 players in Braves uniforms next year. The Braves only want to dangle the carrot so to speak and give out the illiusion that they want to win. They want to do juuuust enough to get the fans thinking that they can contend, when they really do not in reality.

It will be very interesting to see what the front office does to get attendance up. Because winning doesn’t bring the fans in (sorry to this to all the Georgia residents, but you’re notorious for not supporting the team by showing up to the stadium, even for playoff games). And home grown local talent brings in some fans, but doesn’t sell out the games. That leaves 1 potential option, landing BIG NAME Superstars. I’m not 100% sure, but it did seem to work back in the 90’s when the Braves got Maddux and crew. A good core of home grown talent (THAT YOU RE-SIGN) and the landing of a Star Free Agent or two is the only thing that this current group of front office personnel haven’t tried and it IS the receipe for success in getting fans to come to the games. Or at least I think it is…and if but some miracle, the Braves did that and the stadium still doesn’t sell out…then they may as well pack it up and become the 2000’s chicago blackhawks version of a baseball team where the owners just try and make money at all costs and worry about nothng else.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
2:53 pm

Shaun – What are Rodriguez’s post-season stats starting with Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS? Much of our view of AROD as a post-season player starts with that game, whether fair or not.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:53 pm

but Twins are pitiful in pitching and may be willing

They’re pretty feeble, that’s true. But even if the Braves filled out their entire SP rotation, you still got to put eight other guys out there, LOL. Can’t trade ‘em all for pitching.

If they really wanted to go blockbuster, they’d trade Morneau to the Rays and ask for the sun, moon, stars, and a couple of first-borns.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:53 pm

Efrim

Do you think the Braves might go after a top prospect like Mike Olt to fill a void?

CB

October 9th, 2012
2:55 pm

Morneau a free agent in 2014, maybe worth just the sun.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
2:56 pm

He’s RH power hitting LFer who…….is 34 years old and would be a big step down defensively in LF from 2012. So we can’t go overboard trying to get em.

Indeed. Exactly why I wouldn’t trade one of my prized pitchers for him. Had a career year, so he will decline from that, also being 34 doesn’t help things.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
2:57 pm

Morneau a free agent in 2014, maybe worth just the sun.

Man, time flies. I thought he had at least two years left on that contract.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
2:59 pm

It might take Hanson and Deldago to get Willingham alone. two years left, if he moves it will take some talent to get him I think — nolie

I think it would take more. Because they’re taking on Hanson’s salary in 2012 without much reason to think he’ll be better than he was past 1-1/2 seasons. And as good as Delgado MIGHT be, he’s not been a truly elite-level prospect like Teheran, which attracts suitors. (Personally, I won’t be surprised if Delgado ends up the better pitcher of the two.)

With Willingham at such a club-friendly price for next two years, gotta give up more than that to get him, I’d imagine.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
2:59 pm

It would be great if the Braves went after Olt… Texas could field almost an entire 25 man roster made up of former Braves and Braves’ prospects.

With the Astros moving to the AL next season and my chances down to 0% of seeing the Braves play live, I could just drive up to Arlington and watch Atlanta 2.0!

BillEGoat

October 9th, 2012
3:00 pm

DOB, would you considermdoing a column trying to analyze why the Braves, going back a number of seasons, have done SO badly in post-season play? Going back six straight post-season appearances, the Braves have been bumped out in the first round (wild card playooff this year). They have an 8-16 record in those last six playoff rounds. On many occasions, they have lost win-or-go-home games at HOME, where they should have an advantage. This year and in 2010, they lost the games at home on errors by infielders, but it is always something. The Braves finished six games better than the Cardinals in seasonal W-L records this year and still lost. Anything can happened for ONE season or even TWO, but the Braves just come up VERY small consistently in post-season play. Has this happened so often to the franchise that the players are maybe subconsciously expecting it? The costly infield errors this year and in 2010 were on routine plays that ML players make almost all the time–but the Braves didn’t make them, and they consistently fail to hit with runners in scoring position. Atlanta fans might appreciate a column on this topic, athough I guess the players and administration might be offended.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
3:02 pm

Hey, someone needs to tell Alex Rodriguez there’s no such thing as a great hitter being terrible in the clutch. Right?

Okay…I’ll bite…Rodriguez in the postseason: .271/.380/.484 in 70 games and 309 plate appearances.

Where’s the evidence that he’s not clutch? — Shaun

Serious question: Do you watch baseball games, on TV or in person? Or just consume and analyze stats and pick the ones to your liking, whether or not they are a current, ongoing, representative sample of that player’s performance?

Frankie

October 9th, 2012
3:02 pm

And now for something completely different…..

Ben Zobrist, how do we get him. Good fit for the Braves.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:03 pm

I think it’s Profar’s time.

Borderline. I could see them playing him in AAA next season and sticking with Andrus in Texas. I believe it will all hinge on what areas they wish to address this winter (which is a factor of Hamilton), knowing they have that position as depth if necessary to use in a trade. But I would be a little surprised to see Andrus come up in rumors instigated from their side this winter.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
3:03 pm

pretty good stuff here the last few hours, but I gotta go for awhile. TTFN

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:04 pm

OBP can improve in young players with proper coaching, I do agree he lacks power but good contact hitter.

I skeptical that Revere will ever be all that good offensively. It’s difficult to put up a good OBP without power. Major league pitchers can just throw strikes and get weak contact. Speed (and defense, definitely) will help him be an adequate enough hitter to probably hold down a job, either as a second-division starter or a bench outfielder. He’ll get on base some by making contact and legging out some hits. But that is only going to take him so far.

I’m not completely against the Braves bringing in Revere, by the way. But they would probably need to add a big-time offensive leftfielder/thirdbaseman if they were to bring him in.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:06 pm

If they really wanted to go blockbuster, they’d trade Morneau to the Rays and ask for the sun, moon, stars, and a couple of first-borns.

Really? I sorta think Morneau is overrated. He does make a ton of sense for hte Rays.

That needs to happen.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:06 pm

Had a career year, so he will decline from that,

This is a totally specious argment, re Willingham, and you make it frickin’ constantly. Try something new.

The man hasn’t had an OPS under .810 in seven bleepin’ years, and the .810 was in Oakland, fercrissake. He has a career .870 OPS against lefties, he’s had one year in the last eight with an OBP under .350. He’s 34? So what? The club would only be on the hook for two years at $14MM; they spend more on the damn clubhouse buffet.

Find a new argument, because this one just makes you look foolish.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:08 pm

Ben Zobrist would be an awesome pick up. He’s comparable to Martin Prado cause he can play just about any position. He hits for lower average but his OBP/SLG is higher than’s Prado. Little older but is a switch hitter.

Under Contract for 2013 at 5.5 million then has 2 option years at 7 mil and then 7.5 mil. His team friendly contract will make is very hard to get him.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
3:09 pm

I wonder how DOB’s stalkers are going to adjust to the offseason schedule, where new blogs are fewer and farther between?

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:09 pm

The Mariners had one regular player with an OBP over .306… he stood in at .316 on the season.

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
3:09 pm

I disagree about OBP improving all that much with coaching, a bit with some players but m(any)ost go through their careers variating around about the same general mean

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
3:10 pm

Shaun – What are Rodriguez’s post-season stats starting with Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS? Much of our view of AROD as a post-season player starts with that game, whether fair or not. — Tumbledown

I’ll answer that:

Alex Rodriguez hit .363 (33-for-91) with six homers, 20 strikeouts and a 1.062 OPS in the first 23 postseason games of his career through Oct. 17, 2004. Since then, he’s hit .222 (37-for-167) with seven homers, 48 strikeouts and a .759 OPS in his past 47 postseason games.

In his past 22 postseason games, he’s hit .190 (15-for-79) with one homer, 25 strikeouts and a .291 slugging percentage and .611 OPS.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:10 pm

Do they go with Gentry/Martin platoon in CF if they lose Hamilton, or go and sign a replacement? Maybe Michael Bourn?

Maybe they move Kinsler to LF and play Profar at 2nd base?

Plus they have some pitching decisions to make. Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Perez, Ogando, Feliz, Lewis off of surgery.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:11 pm

So what? The club would only be on the hook for two years at $14MM; they spend more on the damn clubhouse buffet.

Not now that Livan has been released and Dan Kolb has long since retired.

Juan

October 9th, 2012
3:12 pm

Arizona Fall League start Today…The following Braves are playing with the Phoenix Desert Dog:

Pitcher: Ryan Buchter, Chris Jones, Cory Rasmus, Zeke Sprull,
Catcher: Matt Kennelly
Infield: Nick Ahmed, Edward Salcedo
No Outfielder for the Braves this year.
On today line up only Salcedo is DH bnatting 5th.

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
3:12 pm

Zobrist would indeed be a good pickup IMO too. a 119 OPS+ switchhitter with great versatility

Mikey

October 9th, 2012
3:12 pm

The question that begs to be asked of Frank Wren (as I watch the successful teams continue on in the playoffs) is; Is that really the “best bench” that you could put together to start the season?
ba/ob
Hinski: .197/.272
Diaz: .222/.280
Wilson: 169/.189
Francisco:.234/.278
I will give you credit for bringing in Janish & Johnson to fill voids after injuries forced your hand, but without a doubt that is the worst bench in ML!

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:12 pm

Not now that Livan has been released and Dan Kolb has long since retired

OK, so maybe “more” was a little hyperbole. :-)

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:14 pm

DOB, I do watch games.

Do you think Rodriguez’s 10 plate appearances so far in the 2012 ALDS, whether you and I have watched all of them or not, tells us whether Rodriguez isn’t clutch?

I don’t think those 10 plate appearances tell us much of anything. Just like Chipper’s 1 hit in his final 12 meaningful plate appearances doesn’t tell us much of anything (the final 12 plate appearances before the Nationals clinched).

Sample size matters. Sample size matters whether you are looking at it from a statistical perspective or whether you are watching a player in 10-12 plate appearances.

If you would prefer, I can put it to you without using any sort of statistical terms. When watching a player, you need a whole heck of a lot more than 2-4 games to learn much of anything. I think a scout would tell you that, a stat guy would tell you that, anyone in the game would tell you that.

bobbymahlon

October 9th, 2012
3:14 pm

I saw and heard Wren on an interview this year say that they were going to find Prado a permanet position. I’ll bet that will never happen as long as Wren and Freddie are running the Braves.

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
3:15 pm

Mac and Francisco make up for those two easily

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:15 pm

Would yall rather have Ben Revere, Peter Bourjos, or Gentry? Who would cost more to get in trade? I just think were gonna end up with a player like this. I believe we will make defense the #1 priority for our new CFer while Wren works hard to finally secure a slugger for LF.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:15 pm

So, it appears the D-Backs got the better end of the Kelly Johnson trade… still think that was an effort to exploit draft pick comps in FA which backfired.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:17 pm

DOB, so did Rodriguez suddenly become un-clutch after his first 23 postseason games? Did he stop working on his clutch skills?

The fact that there is such a drastic difference is a good indication that Rodriguez’s failures are not the result of some sort of a distinct lack of a clutch skill or clutch ability that is separate from his overall baseball skills and abilities.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:18 pm

So, it appears the D-Backs got the better end of the Kelly Johnson trade… still think that was an effort to exploit draft pick comps in FA which backfired.

Sometimes dudes need a change of scenary and it seemed like it helped for Hill – who I thought was always a good player even while in Toronto.

And yes, we’re talking about Anthonopolous here. Of course it was geared towards the draft and player development. ;)

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:18 pm

2013 Bench (hopefully)

David Ross
Juan Francisco
Paul Janish
Reed Johnson
Tyler Pastornicky

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:19 pm

Mac and Francisco make up for those two easily

Huh-uh. Even if Heap and Juan were All-World in that department (and I’m not saying they are), Livan and Kolb were All-Universe. Named the trophy after ‘em and then retired it.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:19 pm

AA traded for Miguel Olivo just so he can get a comp. pick and it worked when Seattle signed him while he was a Type B free agent.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
3:19 pm

I wonder how DOB’s stalkers are going to adjust to the offseason schedule, where new blogs are fewer and farther between? — Murph

Hopefully the 2-3 of them will work themselves into a tizzy each and every day that I don’t write a blog, and assume I am off every day that I don’t write. That would cause great consternation in their households, wondering what I’m up to, why I don’t have a new blog up after several days, etc. This would be good.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:21 pm

There may be some here in Braves land that now believe any player traded for will just fail to meet expectations…….

Me, I think you have to keep doing things that make sense – and trading for Willingham makes sense as long as the cost isn’t insane.

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

DOB, would you considermdoing a column trying to analyze why the Braves, going back a number of seasons, have done SO badly in post-season play? — BillEGoat

The teams have very little in common, save for a couple of hitters (McCann was on a few of those teams; Prado DL’d in 2010; Chipper on all of those teams, though DL’d in 2010) and a couple of coaches. Different pitching staffs, different lineups, different managers, different hitting coaches.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

So you’d trade Delgado and/or Teheran + for 2 years of a 34 yr old slugger? Who just had a career year?

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

Maybe Gattis might get a shot for a bench spot this spring. Maybe he can hit enough to be kinda like a Eric Hinske or Ryan Doumit type.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

Well, at least we’re only one offseason away from Wren for sure going after frontline starting pitching…..

I mean, it has to happen next winter, right?

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

Do you think Rodriguez’s 10 plate appearances so far in the 2012 ALDS

I’m not getting into this, but this is a strawman… DOB sited well over 10 plate appearances. It was around 230 PA in his sample…

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

Shaun – Regarding AROD, DOB seems to be offering you stats that span many more than 2-4 games. Call me crazy, but if my life depended on whether a player could get a hit with RISP, I would not enlist AROD. I would start with Jeter and pick many other players before AROD.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:26 pm

Not to mention, doesn’t the fact that he’s hit poorly against lefties the last 2 years worry you? His road splits the last 2 years have been poor; heck, he struggled mightily down the stretch, Uggla outperformed him since August 1. He has a great contract, maybe the Braves should have signed him. I’m not trading for him though, not for what the Twins will want.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:26 pm

I mean, it has to happen next winter, right

Next year there will be any number of washed up former all-stars pitching in crawl spaces and basement throughout America from which Wren can pick and choose…

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:28 pm

So you’d trade Delgado and/or Teheran + for 2 years of a 34 yr old slugger? Who just had a career year?

I don’t remember seeing scoots ever say he’d trade Delgado and Teheran for Josh Willingham. Obviously these targets come with a price, and if that price is insane, then you have to move on, or decide that it’s something you’re willing to do.

I would not trade Teheran for Willingham. Delgado, yes. And I just have to trust my people that Teheran has a higher ceiling than Randall.

TennesseePaul

October 9th, 2012
3:31 pm

Maybe [Gattis] can hit enough to be kinda like a Eric Hinske or Ryan Doumit type.

Gattis? Please. He shall only stoop to such a level if, and only if, he has been beaten down and bound by kryptonite chains, buried near the Earth’s core while be perpetually bombarded with photons by stimulated emission of radiation.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:31 pm

Va-

I would rather take a shot w/ that than bringing in another has been vet for the bench….

It seems to have worked for the Nats with their young guys (Moore, Lombardozzi)

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:31 pm

Efrim

Maybe Medlen or Beachy are considered one of those types by 2014. Have to be happy with Mike Minor progress he’s shown. He could be as good as a #3. Still havent seen enough of Delgado and there’s still Teheran. While we really do lack that Ace or #1 we still have a good group of starters going forward.

What I’d like to see is actually having a couple starters pitching 200+ innings for us.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:31 pm

I mean, [elite starter] has to happen next winter, right?

Bubba, please. With Sean Gilmartin in the wings? :-)

DAP

October 9th, 2012
3:33 pm

vabravesfan 2013 Bench (hopefully)

David Ross
Juan Francisco
Paul Janish
Reed Johnson
Tyler Pastornicky

uh….mayday!

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:33 pm

Scoots didn’t say that, but I’m sure the Twins will try for Teheran and Delgado to start. They’d be selling sky-high on him.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:35 pm

TennPaul

Well atleast I’m being realistic when it comes to Evan Gattis. He’s too old for AA and has been way overhyped, my opinion is his ceiling is likely a MLB bench player at best.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:35 pm

Bubba, please. With Sean Gilmartin in the wings?

I’m posting from another computer because my last one is covered in coffee after seeing that comment from scoots.

Is it against Wren’s religion to have a starter in the rotation who can touch 94mph?

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:36 pm

TennesseePaul, Tumbledown and DOB, No one in their right mind, whether they be a scout or a stat guy, would draw any definitive conclusions about a player based on 23, 22 or 43 games.

If my life depended on a hit with RISP, I would not separate out clutch performance. I would go with a guy likely to hit the ball hard and who isn’t likely to make an out: probably someone like Joey Votto, Miguel Cabrera or Ryan Braun. If there were two outs, I might go with someone like Mike Trout or Andrew McCutchen, to limit the chances of him getting thrown out at first. Lots of good choices. But I certainly wouldn’t want to make my choice based on a limited number of plate appearances, like only plate appearances that we would call clutch. I would look at everything a player has ever done.

CB

October 9th, 2012
3:37 pm

There are really a lot of people on here who use several monikers,then accuse only the negative people of doing it. I mean, if you can’t justify your arguments under one name what does that say about you?

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:37 pm

I’d give the Twins Julio Teheran for Josh Willingham and Denard Span, but I’m sure they wouldn’t do it :p

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:38 pm

While we really do lack that Ace or #1 we still have a good group of starters going forward.

Nationals, Phillies, and hell, even the New York Metropolitans have one. If I were Wren, I’d make sure I had one too.

This is all Tommy Hanson’s fault. :)

Murph

October 9th, 2012
3:40 pm

Well atleast I’m being realistic when it comes to Evan Gattis. He’s too old for AA and has been way overhyped

Mr Gattis would like a quick word with you.

And whatever you do, don’t look him in the eyes.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
3:42 pm

Given that the Twins struck a bit of gold with Scott Diamond (did I really write that), maybe they will be prone to overvalue Teheran or Delgado. Still, the Braves better get a whole lot in return for one of those two pitchers.

CB

October 9th, 2012
3:42 pm

Efrim. is it against your religion to not be happy without a starting pitcher who throws 94mph? :-)

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:43 pm

Phillies I can agree….

I still think even given his record, I’d have to see another solid year from Gio to believe he’s a #1…

And who is the Mets….? Dickey…..once again, would have to see another good year to believe that….and given he’s a knuckler, I doubt thats sustainable….

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:44 pm

Tumble-

You mean former Brave farmhand Scott Diamond?

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:44 pm

In Chipper’s final 23 games, he hit .217 with a .360 and a .246 slugging. In his final 43 games, he hit .231 with a .347 on-base and a .350 slugging.

Most of those games were pretty meaningful in that the Braves were trying to win the division and avoid a one-game playoff. Many of those games were also against non-playoff teams. Anyone want to argue that the reason Chipper didn’t hit and slug better because he isn’t clutch? Or is that only reserved for players you don’t like, where you can go along with the narrative of the mainstream media?

It’s absolutely ridiculous to assign some grand meaning about Chipper or A-Rod’s clutch abilities to a narrow subset of games.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:46 pm

is it against your religion to not be happy without a starting pitcher who throws 94mph?

Hey, it’s all of those darn elite pitchers on the Television that sit in the mid-90’s, CB. Tough to see all of em and scratch my head as to why we don’t have those types. ;)

DAP

October 9th, 2012
3:48 pm

ptown, youre forgetting about strasburg, and santana.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:48 pm

I still think even given his record, I’d have to see another solid year from Gio to believe he’s a #1…

I know he only pitched 160 innings, but good lord man, if Strasburg isn’t a #1 starter then who the hell is?

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
3:48 pm

When Trader Frank “goes ugly,” he usually has time to clean up, sober up, and return to the bar for one more “last call” before closing time (e.g., Chad Durbin).

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
3:49 pm

Efrim

It it! He was suppost to be our Ace! Instead he’s decided to follow Jair Jurrjen’s path LOL well not that bad, but it’s almost to the point where I rather see what one of these younger guys can do instead of giving Hanson another shot to get back to the old Hanson.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
3:49 pm

P-Town- Yeah, I believe that the Twins acquired Diamond from us. He did fairly well for the Twins this year, hence my reference to a bit of gold.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:49 pm

DAP-

Didn’t count Strasberg since they were treating him like a b*tch and Santana outside of the no hitter hasn’t pitched like an ace since 2008

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:50 pm

Heading into next season, I look at the Braves front 3(Hudson, Medlen, Minor) and sorta think they are more on the level with the Mets(Dickey, Niese, Santana/Harvey) than the Phillies(Hamels, Lee, Halladay) and the Nationals(Strasburg, Zimmermann, Gonzalez).

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:51 pm

Frankly, if he doesn’t get a full year in next year guys, I’m going to have to pronounce Stras the next Mark Prior…..

And I guess maybe I missed the memo on when Tommy Hanson was supposed to be an elite ace pitcher

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
3:51 pm

In Chipper’s final 23 games, he hit .217 with a .360 and a .246 slugging. In his final 43 games, he hit .231 with a .347 on-base and a .350 slugging.”

I think Chipper’s last season was kind of like a closer. He put his foot on the gas pedal at the start and just kept running til the tank was empty. I think the tank emptied out before those final 50 ABs.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:51 pm

This is all Tommy Hanson’s fault.

Actually, Tommy Hanson’s shoulder, LOL. And maybe his beard. Yeah.

The Truth....

October 9th, 2012
3:52 pm

Frank should be a used car salesman. He’s just that slick! He did a terrible job in the off season last year and he’ll probably do the same this year…Too bad Braves fans..

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
3:53 pm

Efrim-

Maybe, but the Cards proved that the Nats top 2 were beatable….

Zimmerman got roughed up BADLY and if they had any clutch hits at all, Gio would have been too….I believe he had 5 walks before he got through 3 IP….

A MUCH improved offense could help our pitching staff….just ask Minor and Delgado ;-)

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:54 pm

I think Scott Diamond and Glen Perkins may be the only pitchers in the entire organization that they have for the 2013 Twins pitching staff. They need it in bunches.

I guess they can kid themselves into thinking that they can grab pitching this winter by trading Morneau and Span, and then wait for the bat calvary to come in from the minors(Hicks, Arcia, Sano, Rosario). But that’s a stretch for even 2014.

CB

October 9th, 2012
3:55 pm

scoots,weren’t you supposed to bring us a victory against Cards. Dang, it was your fault. Did you throw any trash?

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:55 pm

Maybe, but the Cards proved that the Nats top 2 were beatable….

So did a few other teams this year as they didn’t go undefeated. What’s your point, man? That they can lose?

The frequency at which they spin bad outings is low. That’s why those three are what they are – frontline starters. All of em.

richbrave

October 9th, 2012
3:56 pm

AZL kicks off the fall-winter ball season today.

Playing for the PHOENIX DESERT DOGS

Pitchers

RYAN BUCHTER – LHSP
ZEKE SPRUILL – RHSP
CHRIS JONES – LHS/RP
CORY RASMUS – RHRP

Position

MATT KENNELLY – C
EDWARD SALCEDO – 3B
NICK AHMED – 2B/SS/3B

In today’s starting line-up 10/9

ED SALCEDO – DH

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
3:58 pm

Powder Blue

October 9th, 2012
3:58 pm

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
3:59 pm

Funny, I don’t see anyone eager to say Chipper isn’t clutch based on his final 20-40-something games in which the Braves were in a race for first place and a place in the NLDS instead of a coin-flip game. Anyone?

That’s right, because the reason Chipper didn’t hit and slug better probably had nothing to do with his ability or lack thereof to come through in the clutch, overcome or thrive on pressure, etc. But somehow it’s different for A-Rod

Hey, someone needs to tell Alex Rodriguez there’s no such thing as a great hitter being terrible in the clutch. Right?

Also, the above statement is a strawman. Who said there’s no such thing as a great hitter being terrible in the clutch? The argument is that a great hitter will perform more or less to his norms, given enough of chances, whether those chances be in clutch situations, non-clutch situations, on Wednesdays, whatever. The question is whether a player coming through or not coming through in the clutch says something about his clutch abilities or his abilities to overcome or thrive on pressure. If Chipper or A-Rod fail in situations that we could call clutch, it’s very unlikely it’s because of a lack of clutch ability or lack of ability to overcome pressure or thrive on pressure.

Players, even great players, have poor 20-40 games stretches. How many times do we see great players struggle through the first month or so of a season, everyone freaks out and by the end of the season his numbers look normal for him? Why is it so hard for folks who I’m sure know better to forget that 20-40 games is not enough to tell you much of anything.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
3:59 pm

Yeah, scoots, have you even written a word about Friday night? I hate to bring it up.

I’m trying to think of a good, well run franchise in sports that has worse playoff luck than us(whether it be our fault or not). It’s hard to find one, really.

KYBravos' fan

October 9th, 2012
3:59 pm

I haven’t read all of your messages, but I do know we can’t go into next year with so few right-handed sticks. The stats show that we really struggle against LH starters–and now Chipper’s retired and he hit righty when necessary. Prado is an excellent situational hitter. We need to be able to make PRODUCTIVE outs when the hits aren’t coming. I don’t have the answers to the offense, but the defense and pitching look to be very solid going forward. I believe the braintrust will make some solid moves to improve the club. 94 wins is very good y’all. Let’s hope we can win 100 next year in a tough division. Go Braves!

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
3:59 pm

But that’s a stretch for even 2014.

Those guys have to know that they can’t fix their pitching in one offseason, so club control years ought to be a big factor in any such trades. Whether they are willing to just gut the offense for two years to make that happen, who knows? Not exactly a PR bonanza.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:00 pm

ED SALCEDO – DH

Of course he’s at designated hitter……

David O'Brien

October 9th, 2012
4:02 pm

Funny, I don’t see anyone eager to say Chipper isn’t clutch based on his final 20-40-something games in which the Braves were in a race for first place and a place in the NLDS instead of a coin-flip game. Anyone?

That’s right, because the reason Chipper didn’t hit and slug better probably had nothing to do with his ability or lack thereof to come through in the clutch, overcome or thrive on pressure, etc. But somehow it’s different for A-Rod — Shaun

Uh, Shaun, how to say this? Chipper was 40, playing on shot knees and in the last two months of a two-decade career.

By the way, I wish I had the stat they used on TBS last night. But it was something along the lines of, A-Rod has hit .133 with RISP and two outs in the postseason.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:02 pm

Not exactly a PR bonanza.

They have no one to blame but themselves for terrible pitching drafts. They’ve gone after command/control guys who top out at 89mph and even those guys have gotten hurt. What a disaster. And Terry Ryan takes the interim tag off of himself. Them and the Rockies – lost.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
4:04 pm

Chipper was NOT CLUTCH on Friday.

There. I said it.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:04 pm

I’m hoping for good scouting reports to come from the AFL on Salcedo. Although the scouting reports were glowing on Bethancourt last Fall and he fell flat on his face this past summer. Those two have to turn those tools into positive results. Both will be at Mississippi to start 2013.

The Truth....

October 9th, 2012
4:08 pm

The Braves brass don’t want to win a WS…They just want to make $$$! So keep buying those tickets! Want to fill the stadium? Put a quality baseball team on the field…and stop shopping at the dollar store for players FRANK! You really thought you could win with that team coming out of spring training? You were lucky to make it to the playoff game. Pure LUCK! AND you signed Diaz to play LF??? Be real!

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
4:11 pm

Shaun – Why are we comparing Arod’s last twenty or so playoff games verses Chipper’s last twenty or so regular season games as an injured 40-year old player? The better comparison would be to Chipper’s last twenty or so playoff games. In that case, I would definitely not want either player to hit for my life with RISP. Neither player has really come through recently in the playoffs.

I notice that many posters are not touching this subject and for good reason.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:13 pm

zuke354 (missouri)

I hear a lot of people talk about the “late” infield fly rule. How come nobody talks about the late time out that negated a strike out?
David Schoenfield (1:06 PM)

Not sure it’s the same thing. Ross probably heard the ump call time right before he made his swing. PLUS, Lohse still had a chance to get Ross out. The Braves didn’t get a chance to see what would have happened with the bases loaded.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:14 pm

Dang, it was your fault. Did you throw any trash?

I did not, no, but I was pretty much on the island, as far as that goes, LOL. Lotsa lotsa upset folks around me. Terrible call, I thought, but still…not the difference in the game. Chunkin’ the rock all around the field took care of that.

Despite the loss, I stuck around ATL for a couple and hung out with some cousins I have down there, so it was still a good weekend.

Medlen looked shorter in person, BTW. :-)

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:14 pm

Johnny Cueto is dealing with a mild oblique strain.

Not good. I’m hoping for a Reds/Tigers World Series. Be happy if either of those two win it.

southern hope

October 9th, 2012
4:18 pm

I’m so tired of *next* year always being the year.

sigh.

Before I leave 2012, thanks DOB for the great columns…and thanks fellow posters for some very entertaining/irritating/smart posts.

I’ll be back once my dark mood has lifted.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:18 pm

Ya know what I’m hoping isn’t an option? Keeping Prado in LF and signing Kevin Youkilis.

Yuck. Really hope we aren’t considering that.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
4:18 pm

DOB, A-Rod isn’t exactly young. He’s 36 playing with a bad hip that’s he’s been dealing with for several years now. That doesn’t factor in like it does with Chipper because it doesn’t fit the mainstream media/Skip Bayless/lazy narrative about A-Rod being a choke artist.

(Watch the Mark Cuban/Skip Bayless video to see someone with some intelligence tear down a moron in the mainstream media regarding the LeBron-is-a-choker narrative. You can easily find the video online.)

If A-Rod is a choke artist, why has he had some success in the postseason?

As far as 2 outs, RISP, that goes right back to the sample size issue or (oh, yeah, I have to put it in non-statistical terms) the issue with not being able to draw definitive conclusions about a player without watching them for a rather long time frame.

How many times do we see good, even great, player struggle worse than any other through the first month or so of a season? Happens to at least a few players every single season. Yet, for some reason we forget all that and suddenly think 20-40 games, sometimes fewer than that, are enough.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:20 pm

CC (Atlanta)

How does Fredi G not get tossed from the game in that situation? Cox would’ve probably had an aneurysm… which is actually helpful to us Braves fans. Fredi has no fire.
David Schoenfield (2:15 PM)

I was wondering how far the umps would have let Fredi go there? I’m guessing a punch in the face would have merited a toss, but anything short of that? He should have pulled a Piniella and threw a base or kicked some dirt.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:21 pm

Even the once-great can become choking-dog apple-swallowers.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:21 pm

CC (Atlanta)

Seriously though, imagine Cox in that spot. He would’ve weaved a web of curses unsurpassed in recent history. Spit balls would’ve been flying from his mouth. It would’ve been an epic outburst.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
4:21 pm

This argument about Arod kinda reminds me about the debate between Eli Manning and Tony Romo. Romo sure puts up the pretty stats in the regular season and looks good with his fancy passes and gun-slinger attitude. Come playoff time, give me Eli Manning every time (and I am a big Cowboys’ fan). Manning has performed incredibly in the playoff run to two Super Bowls. Romo has failed in numerous crucial games, including the playoffs. But, Romo sure can light up the poor teams during the regular season. Clutch!!

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:22 pm

chriss (wpb, fl)

Do you think the Braves take Maholm’s extention?
Jerry Crasnick (1:04 PM)

Chris, Yes, I think the Braves will exercise Paul Maholm’s $6.5 million extension. He’s a solid lefty who can give them 180 innings with a 3.50 ERA or thereabouts. That’s a pretty good return for the cost.

Rick C

October 9th, 2012
4:22 pm

The Truth…, I would say 94 wins is a quality baseball team. That’s no excuse for the fans not showing up. But Liberty Media obviously wants to see a profit and they won’t increase payroll if the fans don’t show.

I would say luck tends to balance out over 162 games.

Diaz was signed as a bench player. Not to play LF.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:23 pm

Frank Wren (Atlanta, GA)

So, I’ve said publicly that I won’t be pursuing pitching this offseason. Is that a good decision? I don’t have a #1-2 right now
Jerry Crasnick (1:15 PM)

Frank, You only have so much money to go around, and you’ll have to find a way to replace both Chipper and (probably) Michael Bourn. You’ve got Medlen, Hudson, Minor and Maholm, and the kids in the minors still trying to make that final step. I think offense has to be the priority.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:24 pm

I was wondering how far the umps would have let Fredi go there?

A long way down the road, I expect. New playoff format, instant elimination game, and like that? Plenty, plenty far.

I think walking out to where the ball landed, in a pacing-off gesture, might have done it. :-)

BravePack(FreeFan)

October 9th, 2012
4:24 pm

First time back since Friday’s debacle. Just a couple points to make which have already been made by many. I love Chipper and is/has always been one of my fav Braves but he blew it Friday. That throw to 2nd started it and it got worse from there. It was upsetting but I can’t blame him as he’s 40 years old, had just played a week straight basically, and is broken down. Shame it had to end that way but it’s time. Thanks Chipper for all the years of enjoyment watching you as a Brave…it was a great regular season career.

I’ve read all the pages of trade and free agent ideas and I’m in favor of some but one I am not in favor is definitely a 34 year old with a bad back just coming off a career year. I don’t think Wren would be interested as I believe I read in years past that Willingham is not a guy the Braves are interested in. Stay away Wren. Gordon would be a great option but not sure what it would take to get him from KC. Honestly, seeing how Wren has worked in the past it is probably someone no one has mentioned yet and will come out of nowhere, whether it be OF or 3B.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:25 pm

CC (Atlanta)

All the nonsensical support of Sam Holbrook aside, MLB and Torre know that was a terrible call, right? I get the public spin but I at least hope they realize that was NOT an infield fly rule play. And how can Holbrook and Torre claim he made the call immediately? The tape shows the exact opposite!
Jerry Crasnick (1:25 PM)

CC, I agree. I thought it was a terrible call. Maybe Sam Holbrook was adjusting to a different angle out in left field, but there’s no way that should have been called an infield fly 225 feet from home plate. Too many bad things can happen when infielders and outfielders are just a few feet from each other. It was just a bad call.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:25 pm

Jason (St Louis)

But I think everyone outside Atlanta agrees that the Braves lost that game in the first six innings. They were as likely to see McCann hit in to a DP as anything else.
Jerry Crasnick (1:28 PM)

Jason, Yes, absolutely correct. If Chipper Jones had made an accurate throw on that DP ball, I think Atlanta would have won that game. That throw changed the entire tone of the game, and the Braves never recovered.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:27 pm

I think walking out to where the ball landed, in a pacing-off gesture, might have done it.

THIS would have been incredible. I will also say that those 10 seconds in the stand between Fredi walking off the field and the umpire motioning that Simmons was out were more tense than any horror movie I’ve ever seen. I didn’t know what was going to happen, but it was obvious SOMETHING was about to go down.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:29 pm

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28668/homer-bailey

I mean take a look at those splits from Homer Bailey. He needs out of that ballpark bad. Great road stats – 16 starts, 108.2 IP, 85 hits, 28 ER, 5 HR’s, 24 BB’s, 89 K’s, 2.32 ERA.

Always tricky with pitchers from Arlington and Cincy. Derek Holland is a guy to watch too. Provided he’s healthy.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:33 pm

I didn’t know what was going to happen, but it was obvious SOMETHING was about to go down.

Cold ball in the gut when I saw his arm go up. Judgment calls like that, the crew doesn’t want to show up the guy, they almost never get put to right. That was just the last of the thousand cuts, that night, draining the final drop of blood.

Brave New World

October 9th, 2012
4:34 pm

MLB really needs to make sure Sam Holbrook never umps another game at Turner Field. If he does the Braves need to place a net over all the lower levels and station Waste Management teams on the field to haul the beer bottles and cans off to be recycled. “Hey Sam, This Bud’s for you!”

CB

October 9th, 2012
4:37 pm

Most people know I am not a Fredi fan, but no way did he stand behind his players on that play. I believe the players know that also.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:37 pm

MLB really needs to make sure Sam Holbrook never umps another game at Turner Field. If he does the Braves need to place a net over all the lower levels and station Waste Management teams on the field to haul the beer bottles and cans off to be recycled. “Hey Sam, This Bud’s for you!”

I really hope that with an offseason to get over the heat of the moment, Atlanta fans don’t react this way in future games.

That said, if I’m at a game he’s calling next year, I’ll be starting the “IN-FIELD FLY!” chant in the first inning, and not stopping until he retires from baseball.

Shaun

October 9th, 2012
4:39 pm

A player not performing in the clutch doesn’t mean that player lacks some sort of distinct clutch ability, can’t overcome pressure, etc. no more than a player (or a team) not performing on Mondays means he (they) lack some sort of distinct ability to perform well on Mondays. This is the problem with assigning meaning to a narrow set of games, plate appearances, etc. If you discount any possibility or likelihood of randomness, flukes, etc., you are going to mistakenly find meaning where there isn’t.

Let’s look at the Braves record on Mondays. Now, we could start with the assumption that it means something and come up with all sorts of reasons. Or we can keep an open mind and realize it may mean something or it may just be a result of randomness, a coincidence. Most people are reasonable and realize the most likely explanation is coincidence, randomness, because they haven’t closed out that possibility.

With things like hitting with RISP or clutch, people don’t often open themselves up to the possibility that randomness could very well occur. A player who we know is a good hitter could fail in the clutch or with RISP because of randomness. We need to assign meaning to situations like this because they are different than the whole Monday thing. They are important situations, so it’s near impossible for any amount of randomness and coincidence to come in to play. The more important the event, the more people need to assign meaning. But sometimes coincidence is all the explanation there is, whether the situation is important (clutch, RISP) or not (Mondays).

One-Eyed Mac

October 9th, 2012
4:39 pm

Not to beat a dead horse, but my problem with the infield fly call was not so much the distance or the lateness (although there’s a case to be made in both counts), but at no point during that play was the infielder under the ball. In fact, he was pulling away from the ball by the time the call was made. If you watch where the ball lands, at no point in the play did either field reach that spot.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:39 pm

Most people know I am not a Fredi fan, but no way did he stand behind his players on that play. I believe the players know that also.

I certainly have my issues with Fredi, but I don’t see how anyone can complain about how he handled this. Did you see him out there? He was practically screaming at the ump, and then forced them to go INTO THE CLUBHOUSE to confer with their boss on possibly overturning the play. There are times when Fredi isn’t quick enough to defend his players in my opinion. This was NOT one of them.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:41 pm

That said, if I’m at a game he’s calling next year, I’ll be starting the “IN-FIELD FLY!” chant in the first inning, and not stopping until he retires from baseball.

Yes, I think that’s appropriate, LOL.

I really was kinda shocked at folks throwing stuff on the field. I mean, I’ve been to who-knows-how-many games and I wouldn’t have believed that such a notion would have even occurred to Braves’ fans.

richbrave

October 9th, 2012
4:42 pm

EFRIM:

You and me too on SALCEDO.

I’m guessing here that neither AHMED nor SALCEDO man a position in the first game of the season due to fielding.

Kinda’ like Dr. STRANGEGLOVE meets ‘Marvelous MARV’ THRONEBERRY – a horror show the skipper wants to avoid in the first game of the season.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
4:43 pm

Most people know I am not a Fredi fan, but no way did he stand behind his players on that play. I believe the players know that also.

Nothing Fredi could have said would have changed things, so it doesn’t really matter. I was a little upset to see him standing around with the group of umpires, nodding, not looking mad or even perturbed, but that’s just Fredi. Wants to be liked by all.

Had I been the manager, knowing how badly my team needed a spark, I would have been counting off steps from home to the ball, throwing bases, spitting on children, and peeing on people’s shoes. But there’s a reason I sit behind a computer and am not out in the public eye.

CB

October 9th, 2012
4:43 pm

RC, I think I will agree to disagree on that one.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:44 pm

I really was kinda shocked at folks throwing stuff on the field. I mean, I’ve been to who-knows-how-many games and I wouldn’t have believed that such a notion would have even occurred to Braves’ fans.

Yeah, that was surprising. More surprising (or maybe it’s annoying) was how many of those jerks actually had good seats. Had I try to throw something from my upper deck seat I’d have been lucky to clear the railing. In general, “expensive seats” and “unruly behavior” don’t have a lot of overlap in their Venn Diagram.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:44 pm

but at no point during that play was the infielder under the ball.

And part of the rule is “ordinary effort”. You cannot assume “ordinary effort” from a player who is never in position to receive the ball.

Ah, well. Done is done. If the Wheel Of Karma ever swings back the Braves’ way in a playoff game, they ought to get beaucoup payback for that one, so just bank it and drive on.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
4:45 pm

Shaun, time to let go of the clutch conversation. The blog has moved on to infield flies and manager tirades.

Try to keep up.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

RC-

I guess Fredi’s screaming is my calm then….

Because I about came to blows with dozens of inanimate objects in my own house….

I stated what I would have done if you missed it yesterday

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

and I wouldn’t have believed that such a notion would have even occurred to Braves’ fans.

Who would have thunk it? That many people willing to put their cell phones down simultaneously? 50,000 phone calls were put on hold in that one instant…a new record.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

I loved seeing the fans throw all that garbage on the field. If there gonna make garbage calls, and also watch garbage defensive play we might as well pitch in as well using the field as a garbage can. I would have thrown stuff If I was there, hell everyone else was doing it lol

cricket

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

Despite the loss, I stuck around ATL for a couple and hung out with some cousins I have down there, so it was still a good weekend.

just another business-like non-passionate typical Atlanta fan heard from (sorry, no smiley face – i’m still too upset)

CB

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

Murph,I agree no way they were going to change it. I would have liked to have seen a camera on Bobby in the crowd,probably kicking chairs and throwing beer cans.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:51 pm

You and me too on SALCEDO.

I’m guessing here that neither AHMED nor SALCEDO man a position in the first game of the season due to fielding.

Two years ago in spring training I watched Salcedo taking infield practice on one of the backfields at Disney. He missed something like 6 pop-ups in a row at one point. I don’t mean over the course of the practice. I mean the coach hit him one, he missed it, he hit him another, he missed it, and so on. I hadn’t seen anything like it since high school, and that was the kid the coach was picking on.

Then I noticed that Andrelton Simmons was taking infield practice on the other field. I saw no more of Salcedo that day….

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:53 pm

I seriously can’t wait to watch all the fly balls hit next season with 2 runners on and less than 2 outs. Every time it should be a Infield fly rule. Or that’s probably only for the Braves.

It’s not like the UMP made a borderline strike 3 call and then the fans went nuts. The UMP clearly screwed us on the infield fly call. Just mind blowing that this kind of mistake could happen.

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:53 pm

just another business-like non-passionate typical Atlanta fan heard from

Well, that sun coming up the next day, it just took all the despair right outta me, and I was forced to enjoy the company of family that I don’t see nearly often enough. :-)

cricket

October 9th, 2012
4:54 pm

no way they were going to change it.

garbage throwing allowed time for protest to be filed and JoeT to take easy way out – so there’s that

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:54 pm

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
4:54 pm

Murph – You may as well get on me too because I have been discussing the clutch situation with Shaun. I would hope that such conversations can be continued even though new ones are brought up.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:54 pm

If the Wheel Of Karma ever swings back the Braves’ way in a playoff game, they ought to get beaucoup payback for that one, so just bank it and drive on.

scoots, we would need to go 12-0 with a +100 run differential to make it even/steven.

And I’m not joking. Find me another team that has had the ball not bounce there way as much as it has for us in the playoffs for the last dozen or so appearances. It’s insane.

0-7 in our last 7 playoff series(including the coin flip) since beating the Astros in 2001.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:56 pm

garbage throwing allowed time for protest to be filed and JoeT to take easy way out – so there’s that

It also allowed time for Jason Motte to warm up, so, unfortunately, there’s also that.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:56 pm

MLB and Bud basically agree there will not be anymore bloop hits in that situation. Guess the only real way to avoid a Auto Out in the air would be to hit a home run.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:57 pm

I hadn’t seen anything like it since high school, and that was the kid the coach was picking on.

Raw power and athleticism can only get you so far. Hopefully he starts to realize his potential. It probably isn’t in the infield and may have to be in an outfield corner. He’s going to take a while.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

Efrim – Do you think that Ted Turner made a deal with the devil to win that World Series in 1995? The Braves’ negative karma goes all the way back to Jim Bleepin Leyritz in 1996. Multiple teams have sealed their playoff win on Turner Field.

RC

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

It’s not like the UMP made a borderline strike 3 call and then the fans went nuts. The UMP clearly screwed us on the infield fly call. Just mind blowing that this kind of mistake could happen.

One more annoying thing about it (and then I’m going to do my best to not talk about it again):

If they don’t have the two extras “playoff umps” in the outfield, there is no way that call gets made.

The fact that the outfield ump called an infield fly is so ridiculous to start with….

Lew

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

Fredi should have pulled up third base, carried it out to where the ball landed and stuck it into the ground, jumped up and down on it a few times and showed them exactly how far from the infield it was.

Hey – it would make for an epic highlight reel.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

RC-

At the point he missed the first 3 I would’ve had to chime in and tell him to give me the damn glove so I could show him how to play defense…..

Its amazing how valued offense is because if the game were only predicated on defense, I would be a starting SS or 2B somewhere in the majors…..

The statement I always make about not being able to steal 1b…yeah, applies to me….couldn’t hit the breaking ball……

But seriously….6 popups in a row…..he’d get booted off the field by me at that point….either that or I’d start rocking line drives at his skull

ncscoots

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

we would need to go 12-0 with a +100 run differential to make it even/steven

Well, 11-0 would give them a ring, so that would be OK one year, no?

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
4:58 pm

Wonder if they will call the ole Outfield Fly rule against us next for old time sakes just to stick it to us?

cricket

October 9th, 2012
4:59 pm

i think there should be a moratorium on number of times clutch situation is discussed on this blog – as soon as this number exceeds the current national debt in dollars, no more clutch discussions will be allowed for a month

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
4:59 pm

Offseason Outlook: New York Mets

Johan Santana, SP: $31MM through 2013
Jason Bay, OF: $21.125MM through 2013

Over $50 million coming off of the books for Alderson and crew for 2014. Their plan will work, so long as Harvey and Wheeler stay healthy.

RC

October 9th, 2012
5:00 pm

But seriously….6 popups in a row…..he’d get booted off the field by me at that point….either that or I’d start rocking line drives at his skull

His coaches and teammates were a hell of a lot nicer than we were to the high school 2nd baseman.

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
5:01 pm

Lew

I would have paid money to just see that! You could bet Bobby wouldn’t have let something like this go without getting thrown out.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
5:01 pm

I would hope that such conversations can be continued even though new ones are brought up.

The clutch conversation in question has been on-going for months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months.

Braveheart

October 9th, 2012
5:03 pm

Andruw Jones made diving for balls look like ordinary effort. If I tried what Andruw made look routine, I’d have a broken nose, separated shoulder, bruised sternum and a twisted testicle.

RC

October 9th, 2012
5:03 pm

Their plan will work, so long as Harvey and Wheeler stay healthy.

So you are saying their plan has a 30% chance of working?

Nothing against Harvey or Wheeler….just TNSTAAPP, man.

cricket

October 9th, 2012
5:03 pm

call me jerk but i’m with Huddy -

“I don’t blame the fans for doing what they did and reacting the way they did. Show them some passion and let them know that they didn’t get the call right. That’s not something that I condone or the Atlanta Braves condone, but I was fired up to see everybody in the stadium just ticked off at what just happened. We were the same way and it’s something that, after a little while, I think it’s a little bit embarrassing, but at the same time one side of me was just happy to see our fans just backing us up and letting them know how they felt.”

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
5:03 pm

11-0 would give them a ring, so that would be OK one year, no?

Ah, yes. Forgot about the 5 game series. ;)

1 extra just for good measure.

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
5:03 pm

cricket

October 9th, 2012
4:47 pm

Despite the loss, I stuck around ATL for a couple and hung out with some cousins I have down there, so it was still a good weekend.

just another business-like non-passionate typical Atlanta fan heard from (sorry, no smiley face – i’m still too upset)

It’s a little boys game, played by millionaires, working for billionaires. If you can keep it in that context, it will help you overcome your grief!

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
5:05 pm

Texans ILB Brian Cushing’s MRI revealed a torn ACL, and he is done for the season.

A crushing blow to that defense.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:05 pm

Lew-

I LIKE IT!

I never thought of anything like that….

Best I thought was having all 5 umps pull me off him w/o using fists and then clearing the dugout of all the equipment upon return to it with a bit of colorful language

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
5:05 pm

And I’m not joking. Find me another team that has had the ball not bounce there way as much as it has for us in the playoffs for the last dozen or so appearances. It’s insane.

Don’t remember which scoring play it was,…maybe Holliday’s homer…but the very pitch before, Medlen carved him up with a shoulda-been called strike 3, knee high on the corner called a ball. K-zone showed it plain as day.

And since I’m whining…

Posey.
Was.
Out. :)

Braveheart

October 9th, 2012
5:06 pm

It’s a little boys game, played by millionaires, working for billionaires. If you can keep it in that context, it will help you overcome your grief!

Great point, except that I make minimum wage, and I’m really angry about it. So I rant and rave about baseball so that I don’t go postal at work tomorrow.

Efrim

October 9th, 2012
5:07 pm

So you are saying their plan has a 30% chance of working?

If Harvey looks as good as he looked last season…and Wheeler can be what most people think he can be, they will be looking strong with Dickey and Niese there as well. And if Santana can pitch near his first half level last year – lots of good things for that rotation.

They just need an outfield and a bullpen. ;)

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
5:07 pm

“I think walking out to where the ball landed, in a pacing-off gesture, might have done it.”

Those kinds of once-in-a-lifetime Manager rants that get them, not just tossed, but replayed over-and-over must result from some kind of dark inspiration. (Billy Martin has a number of such iconic moments.)

The moment prepared Fredi for it, but (IMHO) he wisely walked away from that particular place in history.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:07 pm

Trader Jack-

Glad to know as Carlin put it that the pussification of America continues

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
5:08 pm

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
5:10 pm

Andruw Jones made diving for balls look like ordinary effort. If I tried what Andruw made look routine, I’d have a broken nose, separated shoulder, bruised sternum and a twisted testicle.

LMAO!

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:10 pm

Hillbilly-

Yes, it was Holliday….and I believe it was the 2 seamer

VaBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
5:10 pm

Well atleast Dan Uggla isn’t as bad as Jason Bay or Chone Figgins, YET.

Felix

October 9th, 2012
5:12 pm

FW: Hanson needs to get in shape, lose weight.

and…..get us more offense!!

CRM300

October 9th, 2012
5:12 pm

Have stayed away from this site since the game. Felt like a death in the family! Hard to believe that the best fielding team in baseball could choke away a game like that. Every season that ends like this makes me want to give up baseball forever. But, the closer to spring training I get, the more anxious I get for baseball season again. Been a Braves fan for many, many years. Been disappointed before. Sid Bream’s slide across home plate was a highlight of my life. So was Henry Aaron’s home run that put the Braves into the 1957 World Series. I will always be a Braves fan. Hope Frank Wren can tweak a good team into a great team during the off season. I will be watching on opening day!

cricket

October 9th, 2012
5:13 pm

It’s a little boys game, played by millionaires, working for billionaires. If you can keep it in that context, it will help you overcome your grief!

nuh huh

seriously tho, have you ever seen me ranting and raving here? considering the time over the years i’ve invested in this team and the way they went out, my amount of being pissed seems appropriate. that may reflect poorly on my quality of life but i promise it will improve as soon as i win the lottery..

Braveheart

October 9th, 2012
5:14 pm

I think walking out to where the ball landed, in a pacing-off gesture, might have done it.

I was more hoping for a Wellman grenade toss

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
5:14 pm

Major disappointment is one thing, but to rant and rave , over something you have no control over, makes no sense.

abeeeewright

October 9th, 2012
5:14 pm

Given how restrained Braves fans usually are (relative to some of the more volatile stadia in america), the bottle-throwing, game delay event is even more remarkable.

Kind of like a warm fuzzy bunny suddenly getting all up in your face.

dylan

October 9th, 2012
5:15 pm

first things first, thank you chipper for an amazing career, it has truly been a pleasure watching you for 19 years.

now, wren is crazy if he thinks replacing chipper (which can’t be done) and resigning bourne are all he has to do.
i’d say go after fowler if youcan’t resign bourne, or dangle one of our seemingly hundreds of sp prospects for a cf/leadoff guy.
definatly go hard for david wright, plays decent defense (don’t be fooled by those who say its amazing, it isn’t) plays hard, and is a 3 hole hitter. move prado back to second, BRING UP GATTIS, id say dangle hanson and uggla (after agreeing to eat half his salary) and try to work a trade for alex gordon.

then you get to go into the season looking like this
1.Fowler/Bourne (if by some miracle they resign him)
2. Prado
3.Wright
4.J-Hey
5.Fredi
6.mccan
7.gordon
8.simmons
9. P

our rotation should be quite solid with medlen,minor, beachy,huddy, and any of maholm/teheran/delgado and we’d stll have the best bullpen in the game

cricket

October 9th, 2012
5:18 pm

Andruw Jones made diving for balls look like ordinary effort. If I tried what Andruw made look routine, I’d have a broken nose, separated shoulder, bruised sternum and a twisted testicle.

but i thought belly-flops are designed to slow down the speed with which nose and testis hit the ground….

Choppinmama

October 9th, 2012
5:18 pm

BMac’s rocking a positively svelte physique in that clubhouse photo. Now…..just lose that beard……

CB

October 9th, 2012
5:19 pm

Seems players and fans were passionate, wish Fredi had done what Lew suggested. :-)

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
5:19 pm

I was more hoping for a Wellman grenade toss

Would have taken a cut-off man to reach where the ball landed…or Fredi walking out, retrieving it, and throwing it a second time to reach that destination to prove his case…Now THAT would have been beyond epic.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
5:21 pm

Every season that ends like this makes me want to give up baseball forever.

When the game was over I talked to Mrs Murph and told her, no way do I want her spending any more of our money on Braves gear. No gifts of Braves shirts, hats, giant PEZ dispensers, coasters with infield dirt in them, action figures, foam tomahawks, etc. I told her I would not be renewing my MLB TV package next season.

The next day the 4 year old came downstairs wearing her Braves BP jersey, doing the chop, and all my angst just melted away.

I gave birth to another Braves fan. And win or lose, joy or disappointment, at least I have someone fun to suffer with.

Juan

October 9th, 2012
5:21 pm

Salcedo bases load Double 2 RBI…

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
5:22 pm

all this crap about willingham and his career year is just that , crap. The guy has an 850 OPS for his entire career, that is the attraction, not his”career year”. Now that “career year” might make him too pricey at this point, but it is not the reason that folks want him, Yet another strawman….

O.M.G.

October 9th, 2012
5:23 pm

We lost fro three reasons:

1. errors.
2. infield fly rule mistake.
3. but even with 1 & 2 we still had chances. We RISP in the 7th, 8th, and 9th and could not get the big hit. We had 12 hits, but none when we needed them late.

cricket

October 9th, 2012
5:24 pm

Major disappointment is one thing, but to rant and rave , over something you have no control over, makes no sense.

if you are talking about me – since i’ve never ranted and raved here, or anywhere else for that matter, after the game, thanks for contributing to my list of people whose comments should be ignored for various reasons.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:26 pm

Efrim-

The Cubs fans around here and their 3 generations worth of heartbreak would disagree w/ you…..

That said, I had this convo w/ my friend who is a diehard Cub fan Sat. night as to try to decipher which is worse, them rarely ever making the playoffs OR the Braves and what happens when we do make it….

From the blower incident in Minnesota to Lonnie losing it in the lights to not playing the line and Charlie f-ing Leibrandt in both 91 and 92 to not getting the key run home in the NLCS in 93 w/ the runner on 3b and less than 2 outs to then the Leyritz/Wohlers I’m gonna blow 2 FB right by you and hang a slider in 96 to Erick Gregg and Livan f-ing Hernandez in 97, Sterling Hitchcock in 98, the drubbings in the 99 WS and 2000 NLDS to then having a chance to beat the Giants in 02 in the NLDS with the tying runs only bases and NO OUTS only for Sheffield to strike out and Chipper to hit into a DP to end the season, the waste of a 2003 season beating sent out AGAIN at Turner Field, the 05 18 inning display of despair, then 2010 and the Brooks Conrad bootings to go along w/ losing Wags in the middle of the series, and then the cherry on top, good ole 2012….

After going through all of that just now again, pains me that I can close my eyes and see every single bit of it like a life flashing before someone’s eyes….

The Horror….

cricket

October 9th, 2012
5:27 pm

We RISP in the 7th, 8th, and 9th and could not get the big hit. We had 12 hits, but none when we needed them late.

real smart fans will off course deride me, but i really feel like changing my moniker to something like “RBIs win Baseball Games”…

Teddy B

October 9th, 2012
5:27 pm

I was reading and enjoying the article until that very last question….Hanson. This just shows me that nobody on the Braves can see that he is washed up, he will be pitching- and losing- again next year. One step forward and two steps back. He only won the games he did win with mammoth run support. His velocity is way down from just 2-3 years ago. Something is wrong, and Wren turns a blind eye to the problem just like Fredi.

If we don’t learn from history we’re doomed to repeat it. Dump Red and let Teheran/Delgado slug it out for his spot in the rotation please.

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
5:28 pm

Great point, except that I make minimum wage, and I’m really angry about it. So I rant and rave about baseball so that I don’t go postal at work tomorrow…BH

how can a barrister make minimum wage?

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:29 pm

Murph-

You gave birth…..

Hmm….how exactly did that one go? —- Was it quite like Arnold in Junior?

CB

October 9th, 2012
5:29 pm

Dang,P-town, I forgot what I ate for breakfast this morning.

Teddy B

October 9th, 2012
5:31 pm

I can’t wait for spring training! What I’m most interested in for next season, aside from who we sign and what happens with Bourn, is if Jason Heyward can keep getting better. I really enjoy watching the guy play ball he’s a super star in the making. Hope next year he can get back to the All-Star game and keep doing better, he’s off to a great start for his young career. Wren better buy out his arbitration years or we may run into financial trouble later on and fail to keep him around, which would be such a shame seeing as how he’s the local kid stud.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:31 pm

CB-

Yeah, frankly if they still have the MLB video clips, they could do a Top 20 on Braves postseason failure plays…..

VERY sad

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
5:31 pm

I bet you wife appreciated you stepping up and relieving her of that 9 month ordeal, Murpd

O.M.G.

October 9th, 2012
5:33 pm

Maybe Murph is part of a Modern Family.

Hillbilly

October 9th, 2012
5:33 pm

P-Town,
Hrbek. Kent Fluffin’ Hrbek.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:33 pm

Teddy B-

I agree….I’ll also be interested to see what adjustments Simba makes and if Freddie can get back to a .290 type hitter….

Frankly I think FF is a .300 hitter waiting to happen…just needs to get out of the pull happy racking up the K type slumps

CB

October 9th, 2012
5:37 pm

Who was it on telecast that said Fredi would win a batting crown? I don’t know about that one.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
5:38 pm

You know what I meant you bunch of jerks.

CB

October 9th, 2012
5:38 pm

Freddie,obviously.

TheOnlyBravesFan

October 9th, 2012
5:38 pm

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#mets will start at around $100M in hope to make david wright a met “for life.” @CBSSports

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20525462/mets-expected-to-offer-about-100m-to-start-as-they-try-to-make-david-wright-a-met-for-life

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
5:38 pm

I hope you are right P-Town, but I don’t see him as a regular 300 hitter, more like a 280 something hitter long term

Half Empty

October 9th, 2012
5:39 pm

bunch of jerks? I thought we were pretty funny, and right in the vein that you would likely have used too

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
5:46 pm

cricket

My comment was not directed to anyone in particular, but to those who after a number of days after the game, can’t let it go and move on

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
5:55 pm

Trader Jack-

Thats because since I live in IL I have to hear the constant incessant sniping over and OVER and OVER again from all the Cardinal fans around me…and there are TONS of them….

The worst of it are the ppl just jumping on me because I am a Braves fan in the Midwest….

So for me, no I can’t get over it because it NEVER ENDS!!!

Murph

October 9th, 2012
5:55 pm

I thought we were pretty funny

Harry Flugelman: But then came “Those Darn Amigos”. A box office failure. Nobody went to see it, because nobody cares about three wealthy Spanish landowners on a weekend in Manhattan. We strayed from the formula and we paid the price.

Ned Nederlander: I thought we were quite good in it.

Lucky Day: Good? We were great!

Choppinmama

October 9th, 2012
5:58 pm

DS1 10/8@10:58 Very well said! Wish all these denigrating fanatics would consider those sentiments.
True, their salaries put their performances at much higher expectation levels, but all are human in the end, not perfect beings that can play at perfect levels every minute of every game.

Tumbledown

October 9th, 2012
5:59 pm

Murph – The clutch conversation in question has been on-going for months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months.

Having not participated in the main blog for months and months and months and months . . ., I was unaware that the clutch conversation had been exhausted to death. This was the first time I had engaged in such a conversation.

I apologize for not researching every previous blog for months and months and months and months … to determine which particular discussions have been discussed ad nauseum. If it is any consolation, I now have a big headache and feel that I wasted valuable time in debating the topic.

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
5:59 pm

P-Town Brave

I can appreciate your feelings. As a Braves fan living in NJ across the river from Philly, I feel your pain

Lew

October 9th, 2012
6:01 pm

Months and months? Shaun’s been ranting on that topic for years and years.

P-Town Brave ©

October 9th, 2012
6:03 pm

I guess its the pessimist in me that knows never to talk before games…..

But Cardinal fan is so cocky that they’ll call their shot well in advance not only because they fully believe their team is that good, but because they seem to get all the crazy breaks and seem to always back it up come playoff time….

Makes me SICK!

Lew

October 9th, 2012
6:03 pm

Best approach is to not respond to Shaun – it will always translate to a severl day rant and return periodically to continue for more days on end.

Murph

October 9th, 2012
6:07 pm

If it is any consolation, I now have a big headache and feel that I wasted valuable time in debating the topic.

We all feel that way after talking to Shaun. Welcome aboard!

Trey

October 9th, 2012
6:10 pm

That’s probably the same thing with Mitchell, Lew, but folks will still do that, too. Unfortunately.

N8

October 9th, 2012
6:10 pm

“If it is any consolation, I now have a big headache and feel that I wasted valuable time in debating the topic.”

Hogwash. There’s no such thing as a headache when talking to a specific blogger. Every blogger is the same. The situations and conversation are the same. You’re imagining things.

That’s almost as absurd as thinking some players are clutch and others aren’t.

:-)

Trader Jack

October 9th, 2012
6:10 pm

Lew

The clutch conversation has been around for so long, I think I can repeat it verbatim

N8

October 9th, 2012
6:15 pm

Yeah, not sure why i brought it up. Wait…. yeah i am. Because I absolutely LOVE watching Shaun rant on that topic.

I imagine it’s like the scene in Austin Powers where the Fembot’s headh starts to spin and smoke and eventually explode.

It’s all good shaun. You know we like you…… most of the time. ;-)

Nowhere Man

October 9th, 2012
6:20 pm

Chipper E. Jones has never been clutch in the post season. Arod is still playing while Chipper is home with his parting gifts.

flange1

October 9th, 2012
6:23 pm

The Chipper E. Jones thing is a bit old already.

I think you have made your point.

Most of us saw the plays, some in person, and understand Chipper made a costly error.

Let it go.

Mixxo

October 9th, 2012
6:36 pm

The Giants want this!

Braveheart

October 9th, 2012
6:45 pm

Posey was out

Norman Cochran

October 9th, 2012
6:50 pm

You can’t expect Frank Wren to say anything other than what he did. However, they must do something with Hanson, Jurrjens, Bourne, and Pastornicky. They need to replace Chipper, the need a consistent hitter (with power) for Left field. Get some solid reserves for the outfield and infield. Catching is in good shape for now.

Sambo 4 Rambo

October 9th, 2012
6:56 pm

Dont we have a stud in double A behind the plate??

nolie

October 9th, 2012
7:01 pm

he’s just another OCD, flange. place breeds then like Drosophila melanogaster around a garbage can

Trey

October 9th, 2012
7:11 pm

Hydrocodone makes ya tired as hell. Wow.

ChipperisGod

October 9th, 2012
7:27 pm

Enough of the Chipper E Jones. It was one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen and breaks my heart, and unfortunately that’s the first thing I think of when I think of Chipper now. He makes that play, and we’re probably not here complaining and waiting for next year.

But time to move on, guy gave us everything and actually was clutch in the postseason at least early on. In 95 he hit the homers against the Rockies that won at least one of those games, he was big in the 99 NLCS as well. Could he have come through more? Sure. But he gave it his all, that can’t be denied.

I think Revere is a good way to go. Cheaper and had better numbers than Bourn and he’s younger. He’s still evolving. Give him a shot. Better than overpaying for Mike B, who while I really enjoyed watching, has shown that he gets tired in the second half for the second consecutive season.

And can someone clear something up for me? If Mac’s option IS NOT picked up does that mean he’s off the team? Or does that mean he stays on and then becomes a free agent for 2014 (Jesus can’t believe I’m saying that is going to be the year soon)?

Here’s what I’m hoping for, for next season.

1.Ben Revere
2.Prado
3.Heyward
4.Headly
5.Freeman
6.Uggla
7.Mac
8.Simmons
9.Medlen

Make a serious play for Headly, or Justin Upton. Someone who can give us some pop who is a right hander.

Bench should stay the same minus Hinske and Overbay. Bring up Mejia and see what he can do. Maybe even Gattis.

BP would stay the same.

Rotation

Meds
Minor
Huddy
Maholm
Delgado

GET RID OF TOMMY HANSON! He needs to have more stamina? Really? How about locating your fastball and not hanging your slider everytime a lefty comes up. Good lord. Tommy has always been a power pitcher, but not anymore. He doesn’t know how to finesse pitch.

If we have the money, we should make a run at Grienke perhaps, although I think Delgado has a chance of being great as does Tehran (to a lesser extent.) Plus we’re getting Beach Club back in July.

I’d also be willing to look and see who’d take Uggla. Honestly. I love the way he tries, but the results are not there. His midsummer slump is inexcusable. I know Wren won’t (which is why I didn’t predict the line up without him), but if I had it my way, I’d use him as a trade piece. People might be scared off by the contract but, who knows. At least try. That’d be a lot of money off the books that can be put somewhere useful. Wren has made some bad moves, but man, while Uggla isn’t the worst (Kawakami has to be), he’s a close second. Uggla was great on paper, but hasn’t performed. It’s time to ship him, I hate to say it, but his performance is inexcusable with the amount of money he’s being paid.

Pay Prado, but whatever you do, do not pay Tommy Hanson anything, trade JJ, trade Hanson. It’s time to get their under performing and injury riddled selves out of here. I hate to sound like the negative nancies on here, but facts are facts. Wren is DELUSIONAL if he thinks Hanson should stick around here.

Been a fun year minus the BS on Friday. Had fun with you all, even the negative nancies. Will be around, but not as regularly because sadly while the Braves should be playing tomorrow in game 3 of the NLDS, they won’t be playing until April because of those horrid errors. Most notably Chipper’s. So sad…. :(

SyracuseBraves

October 9th, 2012
7:31 pm

Josh Hamilton. Enough said

Vend

October 9th, 2012
7:33 pm

And can someone clear something up for me? If Mac’s option IS NOT picked up does that mean he’s off the team? Or does that mean he stays on and then becomes a free agent for 2014

The Braves would pay Mac a $.5M going away present and he would become a free agent 3 days after the WS.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
7:34 pm

Justin Upton away from ‘zona…….1500 PAs 250 .325 .406 .731 76 OPS+

nolie

October 9th, 2012
7:35 pm

Syracuse, dream on. no way is that happening

nolie

October 9th, 2012
7:36 pm

Unless there is structural damage Mac will be picked up.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
7:38 pm

on Upton, forget the OPS+ @76, that is tOPS+

DIPEN PATEL

October 9th, 2012
7:39 pm

There is a guy up the there whom just posted how bs FRANK WREN is and how FREDI GONZALEZ and ROGER MCDOWELL need to be fired and and also how this BRAVES organization needs to to trade away certain players on this roster, now this is 100% BS , especially when the BRAVES have always been the ones that totally need to start playing GREAT OCTOBER POSTSEASON BASEBALL and they NEED to start winning the BIG ONES in OCTOBER.Now this is what this organization needs to be doing.Firing coaches and managers and trading away certain players is not at all the answer/solution to the BRAVES WINNING in OCTOBER.

DIPEN PATEL

October 9th, 2012
7:40 pm

The BRAVES are the ones who need to start WINNING in the POSTSEASON.

keyLargo

October 9th, 2012
7:57 pm

“Unless there is structural damage Mac will be picked up.”

Probably think they will do that too, but with the intention of trading him. As long as they can show a trading partner his injury does not require surgery and he can be ready to play early next year.

nolie

October 9th, 2012
8:01 pm

I doubt they trade Mac, they would need a catcher back and to me anyway, that seems unlikely
It will be an interesting point to follow this winter though