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1,698 comments Add your comment
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
3:40 pm
Dan Uggla in the two spot might not be a bad idea. If the guy isn’t going to be driving in runs or slugging, you mine as well bat him 2nd and let him score runs. Has decent speed and is a good base runner. I guess it all depends on who the Braves have in CF/leadoff.
Bourn
Prado
Heyward
Uggla
Freeman
LF
C
Simmons
OR
Prado
Uggla
Heyward
LF
Freeman
C
Simmons
CF
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
3:40 pm
If the trend continues next year THEN you try to unload him when you won’t be eating a stupid amount of money and the return might balance it out somewhat.
Ohh, if the trend continues next year, it may be a Chone Figgins situation in my mind. His value isn’t that great right now, it’ll be piss poor if he struggles again. Only way it works is if we eat about 20 of the remaining 26mil.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
3:40 pm
Prado at least takes the ball the other way so he’s a good fit at 2.
Taking the ball the other way should not be a primary requirement for a number 2 hitter. The primary requirement for being a number 2 hitter is being a good hitter. That’s why Prado is a good option at number 2. Simple as that.
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
3:42 pm
Meds/Beachy/Minor are going to give the old Oakland Big 3 a run for their money
Wow. Wouldn’t you at least like to see these guys each turn in at least one full season of 34 starts and 200 IP before jinxing them, LOL?
Probably too far back for folks to remember Pulsipher, Isringhausen, and Wilson.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
3:44 pm
This is the problem with looking at stats that convention and tradition tells you are important…
What’s awesome is, I didn’t even have to read the rest of the post. Putting that line as the opener just saved sooooo much time.
phil
October 10th, 2012
3:44 pm
Yes, clearly our team is great….
Our playoff success since 1995 proves it, without question.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
3:44 pm
Wow. Wouldn’t you at least like to see these guys each turn in at least one full season of 34 starts and 200 IP before jinxing them, LOL?
Nope. Half seasons and 160 IP is plenty.
N8
October 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
Scoots. Minor pitched 197 innings this year. Clearly the Braves win or are put into a position to win when Medlen pitches and besides… Beachy will be back soon enough.
If it makes you feel better,swap one of them out with Maholm. Doesn’t matter. starting pitching after the break wasn’t our problem.
MiaBchBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
3:45 pm
After reading the interview with Frank Wren, I am utterly convinced that he is going to screw things up royally this winter. He is an absolute and complete idiot when it comes to hitting and its evaluation!
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
Efrim – Two months of a sample DOES NOT mean that these two [Medlen/Minor] are ready to front a rotation.
This sounds like an argument that Shaun would endorse. I thought such a sample-size argument was frowned upon around here.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
6-0 Cardinals.
Game 4 tomorrow: Kyle Lohse vs. Ross Detwiler.
N8
October 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
By that same criteria, scoots, I assume you think Strasburg has a lot to prove too?
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
Sorry guys….duty called again….
Anyways…..DOB, you guys are behind the times….case you forgot, I live in IL where they pass raising tax bills and giving more money to schools only to have the state squander the money, the Governors to steal it, and then subsequently end up in jail….
In fact, our Governors are famous for it!
Fin-
That would be a nice theory, but Uggla strikes out WAY TOO MUCH to be placed in such an important spot in the lineup….not many 130+ strike out 2 hitters…
Then again, not many 150+ strike out leadoff hitters….and we had one….and some want him back….
phil
October 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
It’s a looooong time until first pitch next regular season….
Sigh.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Efrim-
Season in the balance….and theyre relying on Ross Detweiler to extend it against a hot hitting team….
Would you feel lucky about that?!
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Minor pitched 197 innings this year.
179.
Clearly the Braves win or are put into a position to win when Medlen pitches and besides… Beachy will be back soon enough.
Ah, yes. Counting on Brandon Beachy for 2013 performance. Good luck with that.
Venice Jim
October 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Dadgum….
June 18th, 2012
10:56 pm
Book it……the Braves will be making a major trade by the deadline. It will involve McCann or perhaps Heyward. Most likely McCann.
Dadgum….
October 10th, 2012
10:06 am
Rock on….Either McCann or Uggla won’t be in an Atlanta uni in 2013. Which do you choose?
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
3:51 pm
Never said pitching costed us anything, but it isn’t as strong as some folks here like to think. People don’t like to come out of their caves and look around the league once and a while for comparison.
It’s cool the Braves finished the season strong in pitching. It’s a bummer many seem to have forgot the first half of the year. All those lessons. Every pitcher who had trouble last year was young and/or inexperienced. For some reason when I, scoots, Ef or others suggest it is in the Braves best interest to look into getting a top shelf veteran for next year, it is anathema.
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
3:52 pm
starting pitching after the break wasn’t our problem.
I don’t think anyone said that, nathan. What has been said is that it may be somewhat reckless to characterize these pitchers as Maddux-reincarnate or Mulder-Hudson-Zito and to project them as front-line starters from this moment forward, based on their current body of work.
I believe Minor threw 179 IP, not 197.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
TP-
You got that far?
Usually all it takes is seeing “Shaun” at the side of the post for me and others to move on….
flange1
October 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
Do we have a new Pepperidge Blog Remembers?
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
The Braves didn’t have a single 200IP pitcher this year. Crazy!
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
Scoots-
Yes, Izzy is one of the better closers in all of baseball in recent memory….
And I think Pulsipher sacked my groceries this past Monday
flange1
October 10th, 2012
3:55 pm
sorry, forgot the
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
3:55 pm
By that same criteria, scoots, I assume you think Strasburg has a lot to prove too?
Mike Minor has 53 career starts with a 4.37 ERA, 39 HR allowed, 2.9 BB/9, 7.9 K/9 in 302 innings.
Stephen Strasburg has 45 starts with a 2.94 ERA, 20 HR allowed, 2.4 BB/9, 11.2 K/9 in 251 innings.
They aren’t on the same planet in terms of “proving stuff”.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
3:56 pm
Mia-
If Wren screws up its because of what the scouts and his “cabinet” tells him….
I don’t think Wren is the sole component of what makes a deal and who we end up with….
Its not like he’s the Fidel Castro of the Braves….
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
3:57 pm
PT, every now and then he can engage in a conversation like he’s an adult. I’ll check just to see… It’s rare though, I’ll agree.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
3:59 pm
I believe Minor threw 179 IP, not 197.
179.1 mind you…. 5.2+ IP/GS.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
4:00 pm
P-Town Brave, got to stop being concerned about how hitters make outs over how often.
What’s awesome is, I didn’t even have to read the rest of the post. Putting that line as the opener just saved sooooo much time.
TennesseePaul, I wouldn’t have expected you to read and follow along with the logic. Just the fact that something can be construed as coming from a “non-traditional” or “sabermetric” or whatever label you prefer to use perspective is good enough for you (and many others) to not want to keep an open mind about what someone has to say. Phony, constructed labels over substance.
Got to live in a world of “sabermetrics” or “non-traditional” or “stats” versus “scouts” or “traditional.” Can’t break from that dichotomy and actually try to take in information. If the information can be labeled as coming from a perspective I don’t like or accept, I’m going to ignore it. Good way to live.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:03 pm
See PT, he hasn’t quite gotten there yet…. so we can keep skipping over…
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
4:03 pm
If the information can be labeled as coming from a perspective I don’t like or accept, I’m going to ignore it. Good way to live.
This is good to see from Shaun. Admitting that one has a problem is the first step on the road to recovery.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:05 pm
The guy hit .230 against LHP and hit .208 the year before….
For a team that struggled mightily against LHP I think its ridiculous to consider him a top option….
I’m tired of discussing this….just stop it!
You’re not going to change my mind into believing he’d be a valuable piece on a contender….if he were, he wouldn’t be on his 4th team in 8 years…all crappy non contending teams….
DAP
October 10th, 2012
4:05 pm
based on the guys we have now (aka not accounting for who we pick up) i think heyward needs to go back to batting 2nd. with prado leading off, that #2 spot is risky, based on who we have. i dont want to put simmons there, if we can help it. prado, heyward, uggla, freeman, 1-4.
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
4:06 pm
“If the information can be labeled as coming from a perspective I don’t like or accept, I’m going to ignore it. Good way to live.”
Goes both ways. Sometimes you have to watch the guys and see how they perform in certain scenarios as well. Not all hitters are the same when the bright lights of the playoffs come on. Stats are great. Observations can be key too.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:08 pm
I prefer my actual knowledge of playing the game and actual stats over basement logic….
On that theory, Derek Jeter wouldn’t have a job because he hits too many singles….
So while you’re down there balls in one hand, mouse in the other, I’ll be either playing or at the game actually watching it….
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
4:09 pm
By that same criteria…I assume you think Strasburg has a lot to prove too?
That he can hold up and produce for an entire year, yes. That he can do it over more than one year, yes.
In that context, he has the same proving-out curve as the Braves’ kids do.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 10th, 2012
4:09 pm
So now the Braves need starting pitching? I know it was a small sample size but when pitchers are supposed to struggle and get tired Medlen and Minor pitched their best. I know Medlen just started in the 2nd half of the season but he was pretty damn unhittable even before surgery as his winning streak would atest to. Plus he was shutting down one of the best line-ups in baseball(St Louis) up until an error ruined everything. I wouldn’t focus on pitching if I was Wren.
Now I agree with P-Town concerning one Willingham from Minnesota. I shouldn’t even waste my time as I’m pretty sure the Braves have no interest in the guy as has been evident in the past(thank God) but why the H would some on here want a 34 year old with a bad back, terrible defensively, coming off a career year when his trade value is sky high…no thanks. Not gonna happen nor should it…stay away Wren.
Murph
October 10th, 2012
4:10 pm
Bat Simmons in the leadoff spot. He doesn’t strike out all that much and gets on base.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:10 pm
“They aren’t on the same planet in terms of “proving stuff”.”
Maybe. Maybe not. But Strasburg has never pitched more than 160 innings in a season either and last time I checked didn’t lead his team to any playoff victories.
Until he does….. throw him in the Pulsipher, Wilson, Isringhausen category.
Two words.
Steve Avery.
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
I always liked Paul Wilson. It’s a shame he couldn’t stay healthy.
What I like most about Medlen and Minor as we move forward is that their respective WHIPs in 2012 were 0.91 and 1.15. Hudson was 1.21 and Maholm was 1.22. All four of those totals were in the top 21 in the NL (although Medlen didn’t qualify, obviously). Keeping running off the basepaths is how you win. All of our anchor pieces heading into next year were great at this in 2012.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
MFin04 – Goes both ways. Sometimes you have to watch the guys and see how they perform in certain scenarios as well. Not all hitters are the same when the bright lights of the playoffs come on. Stats are great. Observations can be key too.
This seems like an incredibly reasonable and fair view. Are you willing to acknowledge as such, Shaun?
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
Scoots got it.
Efrim didn’t.
Oh well.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
Scoots got it.
Efrim didn’t.
Oh well.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
DAP, the good thing is that the Braves have five solid hitters and can plug those guys in a variety of spots at and near the top of the lineup. Lots of options. And it seems like they want to acquire at least one more good hitter, possibly two (although they may accept a glove-first centerfielder). I expect the offense to bounce back to the levels we saw under Terry Pendleton (which was quite good, though there are some that never seemed to realize that he Braves got results under Pendleton).
The fact that they got as much as they did with a down year from McCann, not much of anything from the shortstop position and without Uggla picking up any of the slack is a good sign for the offense. I think it’s just a matter of filling in nicely at centerfield and leftfield/thirdbase.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:13 pm
DAP-
Batting Uggla 3rd is about as awful as you can get…..Even Wren said it, Uggla should be batting 5/6….
This could change a lot depending on who we get but Prado could bat 1, 2, 6, or 7…..but I’d rather not bat him leadoff….Wren said as much as well….
Simmons could bat 1, 2, 7, or 8 but I think he said it himself….his comfort level is at 2 and I think he could do that well….or you could conceivably have him leadoff if they could help him work counts more…
I like Freeman and Heyward 3/5 in some form….frankly, Freeman at 3 because I think thats the best Ive seen him…..but either way works….and if they can get RH all-star talent to bat 4th, it’ll make that combo even more potent….
But no way should Uggla hit 3rd
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:16 pm
See PT, 4:12 produced an adult conversation response. It’s possible. Just seems rare.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:17 pm
Gone Viral gets it.
It cracks me up that so many want to question Medlen because he’s never done it over a full year or because he’s coming off of injury. Or that Hanson might not be healthy (because when he is healthy – he’s a good pitcher).
But NOBODY wants to remotely talk about Mac not being healthy, getting older and playing the most demanding position on the field.
But just so we’re clear….. our pitching pretty much carried us all year (bullpen included) and everybody wants Wren to overhaul the rotaiton….
Yet the linuep that sucked ass and is losing it’s CF/leadoff hitter and it’s HOF 3B (who happened to be the teams’s best overall hitter)….. has NO WORRIES about their catcher who by his own admission was in pain when he swung the bat?
Yup. By all means necessary Mr. Wren…. blow up the rotation and keep the lineup as is.
All systems go from here!
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:17 pm
Scoots got it.
Efrim didn’t.
Oh well.
And the confidence you have in either is the same? If so, then you do not “get it”.
cricket
October 10th, 2012
4:17 pm
uggla was brought in to hit at 5/6, he will start season at 5/6, let’s just hope that he hits well enough to stay there through the year
DAP
October 10th, 2012
4:17 pm
MFin04 you mine as well bat him 2nd
is this a bloggism im unaware of?
shaun Taking the ball the other way should not be a primary requirement for a number 2 hitter.
true, but having a tendency to hit behind the runner at 1st could/should be taken into consideration.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:18 pm
TP-
Yeah, I can agree w/ that….except the last sentence….
I don’t think anyone in Braves Country will be all too thrilled w/ just “filling in” at the two empty spots
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
4:19 pm
I would not want to see Heyward at #2. I would like him to settle in at #3, although I can see the argument for Freeman especially when he gets his eye issue fixed. Not sure about the rest of the lineup until the Braves finish their offseason deals.
cricket
October 10th, 2012
4:19 pm
come on nate, Medlen is getting older too
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:20 pm
N8-
So you’re playing down Mac’s career but at the same time playing up Hanson’s….
You’re right…I don’t get it…..as far as I can see w/ my vision, Tommy Hanson sucks
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:21 pm
“I think it’s just a matter of filling in nicely at centerfield and leftfield/thirdbase” shaun
I thought it was against the rules to think. Tell us what the numbers suggest.
O.M.G.
October 10th, 2012
4:22 pm
When talking about Brain Macann and if he will stay or go, I just have one name for you…..Javy Lopez.
DAP
October 10th, 2012
4:22 pm
p-town Batting Uggla 3rd is about as awful as you can get…..Even Wren said it, Uggla should be batting 5/6….
why is 3 so bad if 2 is ok? i just dont want to plan on a hitter like simmons batting 2nd. not yet anyways.
speaking of which, fredi has been quoted as saying simmons would probably spend his career batting anywhere from 2-5 in the lineup. say wuuuuut?
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:22 pm
But just so we’re clear….. our pitching pretty much carried us all year (bullpen included) and everybody wants Wren to overhaul the rotaiton….
Please define “overhaul the rotation” and find me the line where anyone said they need to do this. Adding a frontline pitcher to the existing four in place is far from a overhaul like the Royals, Twins, Blue Jays need to do.
But NOBODY wants to remotely talk about Mac not being healthy, getting older and playing the most demanding position on the field.
Maybe it’s because it’s clear to everyone BUT YOU that Brian McCann’s poor play over the last 1.5 can be directly related to an injury and that his track record prior to that and current age mean that if he’s projected to be healthy for the 2013 season – he should be an asset to the team and well worth the 12 million dollars.
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
4:23 pm
why the H would some on here want a 34 year old with a bad back, terrible defensively, coming off a career year when his trade value is sky high
Oh, .920 OPS against lefties this year, .870 or so against lefties career, .845 OPS career overall, played 145 this year, 136 the year before, OBP career over .360, yada yada yada. OPS+ over 120 for the last four years in three different parks. This is not a one year wonder, my friend.
I don’t what else you’re looking for in a LF banger. The guy is throwing up $15MM numbers for $7MM a year, hits righties and lefties, is above average at not making outs, slugs. If the acquisition has to be a Gold Glover to boot, I’m afraid the team may have to play with eight next year.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:25 pm
And let me clarify w/ my Hanson comments….
He went from someone who could have been a star as a power pitcher to now a guy hanging on throwing 87 mph fastballs and getting taken deep all over the ballpark….
Another season and they may have to put him in traction from his head spinning around so fast….
Tommy is the next JJ
Murph
October 10th, 2012
4:26 pm
It’s a long time from now until the Winter Meetings… 5 days removed from the end of the Braves’ season and the debates are already heating up.
Can’t wait to see this place implode when Wren makes his first move. It’s like watching the last scene of Trading Places, when Randolph and Mortimer and screaming for their trader to sell their frozen orange juice stakes and instead he feints and is carried out of the pit.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:27 pm
If the acquisition has to be a Gold Glover to boot, I’m afraid the team may have to play with eight next year.
Ouch…. Genetics is not Biff’s fault, scoots.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
4:28 pm
TennesseePaul, adult conversation is not criticizing and discounting someone’s views because you need to label them “non-traditional” or “sabermetric” or coming from a perspective where they don’t see the human side of the game. Adult conversation is understanding a person’s point of view and realizing what they are saying without immediately accusing them of thinking players are robots or that it’s all about statistics for that person.
But forgive me for not going with the party line about certain things and actually bringing some facts and reason to the table to back up why I’m not toeing the party line.
You know I don’t have contradictory views because I’m trying to advance some conspiracy. The fact that I firmly believe that most major leaguers are clutch and when a player fails or succeeds it isn’t because he’s not clutch, the fact that I believe that WAR can provide some useful information, the fact that I believe the number two hitter shouldn’t be in that spot because he can bunt and hit the ball to the right side are well-thought-out views based on the facts, facts that have withstood scrutiny, and reason.
If you want to criticize me for going against the grain in some cases, ignoring that my views are well thought out and I’m not being a contrarian because I’m trying to create some one-world government with WAR as the supreme leader, that is not very adult of you.
DAP
October 10th, 2012
4:28 pm
scoots Oh, .920 OPS against lefties this year, .870 or so against lefties career, .845 OPS career overall,
there are several guys with better numbers than that that will be free agents. they would make less $$$ and we wouldnt have to trade anyone.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:29 pm
P-Town…. just wondering why the two way street?
I’m saying that when healthy, Hanson is a good pitcher (look at first half of 2011 – and look at his numbers compared to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz at same point of their careers – and they were all older).
Hanson is not healthy. So he’s not that good.
Mac when healthy is a GREAT hitting catcher. He’s not healthy, so……..
Just want to know why so many (like you just did) want to say “Hanson sucks” when clearly he’s not healthy….. yet Mac is just “injured” and will surely bounce back.
Why the double standard?
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:30 pm
Never played for a contender….traded or let go by 2 teams before they became contenders….signed by a team that went in the tank after they got him….
Hmm…
And no one in their life would pay THAT GUY 15M because he’s nowhere near worth it with his shoddy D and bad back….
The numbers don’t tell you what he would do with any pressure nor do they tell you how he’d function when asked to play a bigger part on a team….
Or do you not remember Dan Kolb, BJ Surhoff, Reggie Sanders, and Derek Lowe?
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:30 pm
Pitchers sort of need their shoulders and Hanson’s is clearly not 100%. Surgery will not remedy the issue and he’s just going to have to try offseason strengthening programs and delivery tweaks to survive. Hanson going under the knife would not in any way help his career.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:31 pm
“Maybe it’s because it’s clear to everyone BUT YOU that Brian McCann’s poor play over the last 1.5 can be directly related to an injury and that his track record prior to that and current age mean that if he’s projected to be healthy for the 2013 season – he should be an asset to the team and well worth the 12 million dollars.”
And Efrim just put an exlamation point on my point.
So am I to believe you feel the same way about Hanson and Jurrjens then?
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
4:31 pm
there are several guys with better numbers than that that will be free agents. they would make less $$$ and we wouldnt have to trade anyone
DAP, I don’t think you really mean this. There is no FA OF who has a career OPS better than .845 and is going to play 2013 for less than $7MM.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:31 pm
I don’t think anyone in Braves Country will be all too thrilled w/ just “filling in” at the two empty spots
Some regulars are only seeking that. That’s fine. Just happens that others disagree. I’d be happy with top line pitcher, great hitter, and a defender. The hitter and defender could be all one guy, could be two guys. But I still hope the rotation is looked at.
Though, it could be Wren does look into the rotation and finds that the lack-luster free agent selection is making the entire market (FA and trade) more expensive, thus deterring him from making a move in that area…. Might be why he isn’t talking about it so as not to influence asking prices.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 10th, 2012
4:31 pm
And is 34 years old with a bad back….and the Twins will want the world for him after a year he will never duplicate again…I guarantee it. Argue it all you guys want but Willingham was never a Brave, isn’t one, and will never be a Brave. There is no interest especially not at his age. Wren is building a young team not an older one especially if he’s going to trade away young arms.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
4:33 pm
Trading Places- Great movie. The scenes with Clarence Beeks were hilarious.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:33 pm
“Pitchers sort of need their shoulders and Hanson’s is clearly not 100%. Surgery will not remedy the issue and he’s just going to have to try offseason strengthening programs and delivery tweaks to survive. Hanson going under the knife would not in any way help his career.”
Clearly Mac needs HIS shoulder to hit like the Mac we know.
Will surgery solve his problem? How the hell can anybody answer that right now (or 3 days after the WS ends) when the player and the GM are giving conflicting reports on whether he even needs the surgery to begin with.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:33 pm
there are several guys with better numbers than that that will be free agents. they would make less $$$ and we wouldnt have to trade anyone.
With a better track record vs. both RHP and LHP than Willingham?
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:33 pm
Murph-
Trading Places?
Couldn’t you at least bring up a more decade relevant movie
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
Lisa (San Francisco, CA): Would you consider Bethancourt to be the best defensive catcher in the minors at present? If not him, who?
Teddy Cahill: I think it is fair to call Braves C Christian Bethancourt the best defensive catcher right now. His arm draws rave reviews and his pop times are excellent. If he can just pair that with a little more offense the Braves will have quite the prospect.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
Just want to know why so many (like you just did) want to say “Hanson sucks” when clearly he’s not healthy….. yet Mac is just “injured” and will surely bounce back.
Why the double standard?
Shoulder injuries to pitchers are an entirely different ball game than shoulder injuries to hitters. Certainly you comprehend that distinction?
brian
October 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
back to an old debate, I still wonder if the Braves will consider asking BMAC to field some grounders at 3B. I know that BMAC has always said that he wants to stay at catcher but the physical toll of being a full time catcher is catching up with him.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
Dave (Atlanta): Any support for other Braves pitchers–Zeke Spruill, Cory Rasmus, JR Graham, David Hale?
Teddy Cahill: RHP J.R. Graham would have had a shot at making the list if he qualified. He came up just a few innings short, however. Graham gets a lot of groundballs (his 2.24 GB/FB rate is loud) and he did rank on the Carolina League Top 20. Definitely a name to watch. From the rest of that group, Spruill might be the most interesting, but he wasn’t all that close to making it.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
4:36 pm
As long as basically the best hitters on the team are bunched together, near the top of the lineup, mixing up lefties and righties where they can, I’m not too concerned with the batting order.
Over-analyzing the lineup based on situational hitting, planning for this or that one hitter coming up to the plate in that one scenario where he can do that one certain thing isn’t going to win the Braves or any team any extra games.
Stack the best hitters at the top and make sure they are bunched together. Higher on-base, lower power guys hit the highest. Higher slugging guys next. Weak hitters at the bottom.
Part of over-managing is putting a number two hitter in that spot simply because of a situation where you can hit-and-run or bunt. The most important thing a manager can do is make sure he arranges his lineup so that he can keep a rally going and decrease the chances that there are three easy outs in a row.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:37 pm
Shaun pulling the “adult” card out of his pocket.
But keep this in mind….. Rainman was an adult too.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:37 pm
Clearly Mac needs HIS shoulder to hit like the Mac we know.
Will surgery solve his problem?
Yes. Hitters don’t use their shoulders the same way and as often as pitchers.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:38 pm
I’d rather get F-d in the A than have him out in LF on my team next year….
Case closed
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:40 pm
So am I to believe you feel the same way about Hanson and Jurrjens then?
Ummm, their shoulders are their bread and butter and in Hanson’s case – it’s not near where it needs to be. Labrum surgery isn’t a death sentence for a position player. It is for a pitcher.
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:41 pm
“Shoulder injuries to pitchers are an entirely different ball game than shoulder injuries to hitters. Certainly you comprehend that distinction?”
So then, Mac’s shoulder DIDN’T hinder his season?
jim
October 10th, 2012
4:41 pm
Efrim,
Was the move by Matheny to remove a guy that just K’d the previous two hitters to bring in a softer throwing lefty specialist when it was obvious that Johnson would bring in a righty pinch hitter to bat for Tracy a move, that had Fredi made it would have lit up the blog with complaints for a week?
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
4:41 pm
Ignoring positional scarcity, importance and all of the other stuff that complicates comparisons of a pitcher and catcher, here is my difference between Mac and Hanson. Mac is a perennial All-Star and Silver Slugger. Hanson is not the pitcher he was projected to be. People get so obsessed with power pitching that they forget to shave with Occam’s Razor. Pitching is about getting people out. At the age of 26, Hanson is worse at this than he was at the age of 24.
We can blame this on injury at least to an extent. This would still ignore the fact that he has gotten worse, not better, with baserunners on and he has yet to develop a feel for how to attack a lineup. Great pitchers have this fascinating career arc wherein stuff carries them in the early days then intellect allows them to survive once they lose the ability to blow hitters away. Can anyone here honestly say that they believe Tommy Hanson has a better pitching approach today than he did in 2009? I’m troubled by this.
If Tommy Hanson has trade value, I would much rather some other team roll the dice than keep him around simply because he’s still got one more year before he’s arb eligible. If he turns out for them, I am very happy for him because he has been a model citizen as a Brave. Right now, those odds seem fairly low to me. He needs a change of scenery, a new shoulder and a Jack Lewellyn.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:41 pm
And there he goes again… It’s like a batting average. It has its ups and it has its downs.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:42 pm
BTW…
Maybe you guys can answer me this one…..
Of all the combination of playoff teams in the last 8 years, if this guy is SO good as some apparently are creaming their pants over him, then why havent any contending teams expressed a great amount of interest in obtaining him….
In fact, the Oakland A’s had him….and let him GO before they contended this year…
The Nats….they let him go to begin rebuilding to start contending….
Riddle me that
N8
October 10th, 2012
4:43 pm
“Yes. Hitters don’t use their shoulders the same way and as often as pitchers”
Well there you have it. I’m on board. T-Paul just answered yes, thus guaranteeing Mac will be solved going into next year. Because he’s not a pitcher.
Whew. I guess we don’t need to worry about catcher anymore.
nolie
October 10th, 2012
4:43 pm
scoots Oh, .920 OPS against lefties this year, .870 or so against lefties career, .845 OPS career overall,
there are several guys with better numbers than that that will be free agents. they would make less $$$ and we wouldnt have to trade anyone,,,DAP
Say What? who exactly are you referring to who hits 850 and costs less than 7mil? I truly want to see that list of several guys.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:43 pm
So then, Mac’s shoulder DIDN’T hinder his season?
Clearly, you don’t understand the distinction….
Truthfully though, it seems you’re just playing devils advocate here and dragging down a simple conversation, for what reason I don’t know.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:43 pm
So then, Mac’s shoulder DIDN’T hinder his season?
Holy hell, man. He’s most likely getting shoulder surgery to correct the issue. You understand that Hanson’s problem can’t be as easy as a fix, right? Not at all the same.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:44 pm
Outstanding post GV….
and yeah, while Mac has had 1.5 poor seasons, Hanson has had maybe 1.5 good seasons….
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
4:45 pm
Whew. I guess we don’t need to worry about catcher anymore.
We never did. Only you climbed that wall of worry, nathan.
We just tried to throw you a line so you make your way back down without falling on your ***.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
4:45 pm
Whew. I guess we don’t need to worry about catcher anymore.
“We”? Looked from here like a school of one. Or is that the editorial “we”? You know, the Royal “we”?
Murph
October 10th, 2012
4:46 pm
Couldn’t you at least bring up a more decade relevant movie
PT, just because Trading Places doesn’t star The Rock doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant.
Classics like that are always relevant.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:46 pm
If Tommy Hanson has trade value, I would much rather some other team roll the dice than keep him around simply because he’s still got one more year before he’s arb eligible. If he turns out for them, I am very happy for him because he has been a model citizen as a Brave. Right now, those odds seem fairly low to me. He needs a change of scenery, a new shoulder and a Jack Lewellyn.
Well stated. I think they should trade him. If we aren’t killing the opposing GM on the trade, then that’s okay. Hopefully we can get equal value, I think we can.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
4:47 pm
Its sad when the same people who are skeptical about Medlen are the same who elevate Hanson….
Medlen won almost as many games in a 1/2 season as a starter as Hanson won in a full year
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
4:48 pm
Not gonna watch a Cardinals/Giants NLCS, so the Reds better close this thing out.