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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,698 comments Add your comment
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
12:56 pm
Oh, DOB, it’s Atlanta Baseball Talk, not Capitol Avenue Club.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
12:56 pm
Reds/Cards and Yankees/Tigers would be two good series. Be better is La Russa was managing the Cards still. Him and Baker absolutely hate eachother.
N8
October 10th, 2012
12:57 pm
I know Wayne. After I hit post on that, I kind thought to myelf that I’ve never read you complaining about money for salary.
But you’re in serious denial with the lack of position players in our system coming up to help out, if you don’t think Wren will have to “buy” some talent for this team. Either via trade or free agency.
To me it’s the same. You’re either spending money or equity. Either way, Wren has to look outside the organization to improve our lineup.
So if we win the division next year, it will have been “bought” one way or another.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
Shaun – I know many others are tired of your views. However, I am somewhat intrigued by them even though they give me a headache. Like many others, I disagree with your take.
…the human element of sports or the mental side of baseball, which is usually the most important factor in separating very good players from great players.
Yes, the players are humans so obviously the “human element of sports” is all that separates very good and great players.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
Shaun – I know many others are tired of your views. However, I am somewhat intrigued by them even though they give me a headache. Like many others, I disagree with your take.
…the human element of sports or the mental side of baseball, which is usually the most important factor in separating very good players from great players.
Yes, the players are humans so obviously the “human element of sports” is all that separates very good and great players.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
Shaun – I know many others are tired of your views. However, I am somewhat intrigued by them even though they give me a headache. Like many others, I disagree with your take.
…the human element of sports or the mental side of baseball, which is usually the most important factor in separating very good players from great players.
Yes, the players are humans so obviously the “human element of sports” is all that separates very good and great players.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
N8-
Now that all really depends on settling as opposed to what we’d make out w/ if we declined the option….
Given we need to replace production in both LF/3B and CF, I’d think it’d make it that much harder to get quality talent at both spots if we had to replace at C as well regardless of how much $ we would spend on the catcher spot….
You threw Willingham there because you know I cant stand that idea
Do we really think we can carry the math and figure how much it would take to replace 2 positions and add catcher to that if Brian is healthy?
I am not for declining the option, but just like it is with the business, if they do it, I am going to have to deal w/ it like everyone else, just like if they exercise it I will….
I frankly at this point am more concerned w/ the 2 holes and hoping they sign Prado long term than I am w/ a guy who most think the writing is on the wall that he won’t be in ATL past 2013 anyways.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
Shaun – I know many others are tired of your views. However, I am somewhat intrigued by them even though they give me a headache. Like many others, I disagree with your take.
…the human element of sports or the mental side of baseball, which is usually the most important factor in separating very good players from great players.
Yes, the players are humans so obviously the “human element of sports” is all that separates very good and great players.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:00 pm
Oh, DOB, it’s Atlanta Baseball Talk, not Capitol Avenue Club.
I liked Peter Hjort. He was pretty funny too. Just mad young.
Ben Duronio is……interesting…..I guess.
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
1:01 pm
“If the MRI doesn’t show a gremlin chewing on Mac’s labrum”
And if it does, that will be the most viewed non-pornographic image ever posted on the internet.
jeffrey d
October 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
What ever happened to PHjort?
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:03 pm
Efrim-
Too bad I could care less and am done watching baseball….
Good thing for me, my college football team is #8 in the country and as good as I can remember for quite some time and my college basketball team tips off first public practice Friday night
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
1:04 pm
Ok, the computer did something real funky. Or I did. Anyway, I do not like your tendency to distort others views.
For example, DOB writes “…the human element of sports or the mental side of baseball, which is usually the most important factor in separating very good players from great players.”
Yet, you construed it as follows: “Yes, the players are humans so obviously the ‘human element of sports’ is all that separates very good and great players.
Did you not see the words that DOB used such as “usually” and “most factor factor”? How can you then construe DOB’s argument that the human element is ALL that separates very good and great player?
Whatever merit youy arguments may have tend to get lost in the rigidity of your views and failure to properly understand the contrary point. That is all. Sorry everybody!
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
What ever happened to PHjort?
I think he stopped writing at Capitol Avenue to focus on medical school.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
Atlanta Baseball Talk huh…
Yeah, I like Hammy and Curt….but Steve is an absolute idiot….
And sorry guys, I disagree….Hjort got on my nerves most of the time….guess his humor was lost on me….
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
“If the MRI doesn’t show a gremlin chewing on Mac’s labrum”
Not suppose to feed them after midnight!?!
Deep Breath and Reload
October 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
I like the Scott Van Pelt radio plug for his show, where he is doing an opinion on the triple crown.
In essence he is saying if you are trying to justify an opinion that Miggy Cabrerra is not “all that” because he did something that no one has done in 45 years by winning the triple crown……. then he wasn’t listening to YOU!
That’s how I feel. Moneyball and the NEW stats ain’t won nothing yet. I’m sure some can do some hindsight math and show us where the stats paid off, but I haven’t seen Billy Beane hoisting any World Series trophies yet.
DS1
October 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
N8
It’s called fortifying the bench. And yes, you do “buy” players either through internal development, using your prospects to acquire talent, or buying free agents.
I guess I should have said overbuy.
If Mac has issues, we will scour the trade rumor pages and find a suitable replacement, much in the same way we picked up Paul Janish last summer. The catcher we get (or maybe get) will not be of the normal Mac caliber, but we will deal with it.
Most all clubs do this……….
CB
October 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
Peter still comes here under a different moniker
Nowhere Man
October 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
The Atlanta braves radio network is running a promo thanking Chipper E. Jones for the 1995 WS title. Talk about revisionist history. They should have thanked him for an early exit to this years playoffs.
No way Uggla or McCann or going anywhere. Mac has had one bad season and deserves the chance to bounce back.
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
1:07 pm
Everyone seems to be posting angry so this is probably not the ideal time to post this. I have been thinking about the situation ever since the play happened, however, and this is what angers me the most.
The Infield Fly rule is specifically designed to protect the offense. Via this rule, the defense cannot trick base runners into double play scenarios. Ignoring all of the other elements of the call that were questionable, calling the Infield Fly rule at that moment injured the offense rather than protected it.
A friend commented that the football analog would be forcing a team to accept a 5-yard offside penalty rather than giving them credit for a 30 yard completion during the play.
jeffrey d
October 10th, 2012
1:08 pm
Med school eh? At least he’ll be able to keep up with a majority of the bloggers who are also in med school.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
1:08 pm
If that’s the way it turns out (trading for Willingham) without having to trade Teheran or Graham, count me in.
Or Delgado.
The Braves “can” decline Mac’s option. By my count, we’ll have about 35-40 mil to spend to replace 3 positions. Only problem is that Mac has the potential to be the best catcher available. When healthy, he’s better than Napoli and Pierzynski. Those 2 may be cheaper, but Mac is the better player.
Tomahawkin (Suffering Fan)
October 10th, 2012
1:12 pm
Holy ####
I didn’t know that Double J make 5.5. Mill in 2012…I’m Guessing he gets non tendered and ends up in Kansas City since all our other cast-offs end up there
Bruce Chen, Francoeur, Bryan Pena, Melky Cabrera…etc
I’m out, gonna go play on the Philly.com forums for a lil bit….
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
1:12 pm
Trading for Willingham has become this message board’s equivalent of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. As much as I wish it would happen, the Braves have never demonstrated the appropriate interest. That’s a shame because he is a tough out.
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:12 pm
“If that’s the way it turns out (trading for Willingham) without having to trade Teheran or Graham, count me in.
Or Delgado.”
I don’t understand why we’d give Delgado away for Dempster but not Willingham. I do think it was stupid to trade Delgado for Dempster, but if the front office was dumb enough once, why wouldn’t they be dumb enough to do it twice?
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
1:13 pm
Tumbledown, I disagree that the separation between very good and great players is mostly just mental. That’s the point I was trying to get across. I think it’s much more complex than that. I just firmly believe that it takes a lot more than simply mental fortitude to take the next step as a player. I just don’t think it’s nearly that simple. Part of the reason I believe this is because the players are human beings and so much more than just the mental side of the game goes in to a player performing better than others.
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:13 pm
The Atlanta braves radio network is running a promo thanking Chipper E. Jones for the 1995 WS title. Talk about revisionist history. — Nowhere Man
Oh, wise Nowhere Man, please examine Chipper Jones’ statistics in that ‘95 postseason and explain to us how that is “revisionist history.”
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:13 pm
Just automatically picking up Mac’s option and assuming he’ll be the old Mac could be dangerous
I believe that is slightly less dangerous than expecting 3 or 4 SP with fewer than 70 big-league starts to front and anchor your rotation in the NL East.
We should be so lucky to “settle” for Josh Willingham in LF and Brian McCann at C for 2013. If that’s the way it turns out without having to trade Teheran or Graham, count me in.
Count me in? Shoot, that could make you start believing in Santa Claus again.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
1:14 pm
If I had a bet, I would say that the Braves are going to pick up McCann’s option. They lost Cox a couple of years ago. Chipper is now gone. McCann is essentially the closest thing to the face of the franchise. The Braves will not want to let him go. I believe he can bounce back and have a good year, but I understand the sentiment to the contrary.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:15 pm
GV-
I dunno…..
His .230 avg against LHP this year and his .260 career avg suggests otherwise…
Don’t get me wrong, the guy can hit the ball a long way but I am not sure I could stomach his LF play or another 140 strike out guy
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
Cmon now Scoots….
He at least has to work up to Santa…..
Start him off w/ the Easter Bunny
N8
October 10th, 2012
1:17 pm
Wayne, I think the sure fire winners are able to use this philosophy like magic. The Braves did it throughout the 90’s. Go to spring training with minimal changes and pick up “help” along the way.
But this is a bad idea for a team that finished 4 behind the Nats (who will NOT limit Strasburg’s innings next year).
Assuming all is well and using the motto that we’ll band-aid it up along the way is a recipe for disaster. I’d rather see Wren be aggressive (not Florida Marlins or Boston Red Sox aggressive), but aggressive.
He has set himself up to be criticized depending on what moves he makes. Since he stated they would be looking at premium players for upgrades. The whole shopping at Wal-Mart comment.
I expect him to act upon those words. I too don’t want him to overspend for somebody (Derek Lowe or KK anybody?)
But enough of the “we’ll see how it goes” philosophy.
Last year they seemed to want to play Simmons out of the gate, but he got hurt. Then they sold us that Pastornicky would be “fine”. He wasn’t.
When you are the “chaser” in the playoff hunt and we will be chasing the Nats for the next 5 years, best to jump the gun, rather than “settle” coming out of the gate.
One could argue that Huddy being out a month, and “settling” for Minor and guys like Livan along with Pastornicky last April and May, might have been the difference in the division and the wildcard.
Might still be playing right now if we didn’t “settle” for Pastornicky out of the gate.
That’s all i’m saying. We can’t afford to settle at any position if we really think we’re gonna catch the Nats and win the divsion next year.
Everybody cries that the one game “play-in” is a farce. Well if Wren doesn’t do something bold, i’m afraid that’s exactly where we’ll be again.
we won 94 games. We are clearly in line to be in the hunt again next year. But face it. Even if we had won 97 games, we STILL would have been in the play-in game.
This winter is likely where Wren will give the team the best chance to overtake the Nats. If we’re still looking for answers in June? Get ready for the one game show down again. Where as we saw….. anything can happen.
DAP
October 10th, 2012
1:17 pm
top 10 richest baseball players: http://tinyurl.com/8uzkz3k
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
1:17 pm
In essence he is saying if you are trying to justify an opinion that Miggy Cabrerra is not “all that” because he did something that no one has done in 45 years by winning the triple crown……. then he wasn’t listening to YOU!
I’m not sure what this means. I think the point we Trout supporters make is that he was nearly as good at the plate as Cabrera (if not a little better), he was clearly superior on defense and on the basepaths and (for those who think a player’s teammates should factor in to whether a player wins an award that goes to an individual) the Angels won more games than the Tigers in a tougher division (not Mike Trout’s fault that Anaheim is on the west coast instead of in the midwest).
Godzilla Vs. DOB
October 10th, 2012
1:17 pm
Hey DOB,
Can I ask you a few questions?
1.. Do you think Fredi has another season next year with the Braves and if we fail to advance in the playoffs do you see the Braves making a coaching change?
2. Any chance Liberty Media sell Braves during off season?
3. What would you do for a klondike bar?
jeffrey d
October 10th, 2012
1:18 pm
But this is a bad idea for a team that finished 4 behind the Nats (who will NOT limit Strasburg’s innings next year).
Counterpoint: the Braves lost their best pitcher months before the Nats did.
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:19 pm
“McCann is essentially the closest thing to the face of the franchise”
Used to be. I don’t think so anymore. You could easily slide Freeman and Heyward into that role. Maybe co-faces of the franchise. I mean I’m not sure if a closer could be a face of a franchise. I mean Trevor Hoffman or Rivera were close. But Kimbrel could also be a face of the franchise kinda guy.
But it wouldn’t be difficult to replace McCann with Freeman and Heyward as that. Sad, but true. Especially after this last year of becoming an 8th hitter in this lineup.
Frankie
October 10th, 2012
1:19 pm
Damn DOB,
Maybe lighten up a little my man. Scrolling back and see jumping down everybody’s throats. Little sensitive these days. When you do respond it’s regarding the yahoos on here who should just be laughed at and not invest anytime with.
Still not sure what the deal was on the whole “Escobar” thing yesterday which was taken the wrong way.
Lighten up tiger, it’s all good.
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
“his .260 career avg suggests otherwise…”
His career OBP is .362 so respectfully, focusing on his batting average is missing the point a bit. And players who oftentimes work deep counts generally have strikeout numbers in accordance with those habits. This is what made Gary Sheffield such a special hitter. He had that rare ability to make contact consistently with two strikes.
TennesseePaul
October 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
I liked Peter Hjort. He was pretty funny too. Just mad young.
What ever happened to PHjort?
I think he stopped writing at Capitol Avenue to focus on middle school.
Sheeeeesh. That is young.
Klaus
October 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
Dave I mentioned Greinke as the primary ace option but not feasible $$ hence the Peavy idea. Nice job of selective commentary.
Peavy is the fire ball pitcher we lack and yes he has issues but the Braves are no prize pig financially so you have to make some compromises. It would be better to say replace Hanson with Peavy bc Hanson is on a slower (but same destination) train to the bottom (ala JJ).
Medlen’s resume as a Ace or even a #two is what exactly? I am very happy he channeled Maddux for 6 weeks but you cannot rely on that. It is nice that we see him as a good luck charm pitcher over the years but every pitcher who is exposed for an entire season as a starter gets figured out.
Medlen has started in chunks then either went down with injury or was put in the pen. That actually helps him by limiting tape on his stuff. Once in the rotation he will hit the same walls and valleys every pitcher – even the great ones – hit. He won’t pitch like he did in September all year.
Peavy is not Greinke but he has a power arm and while the # pf games pitched is a concern some of his injuries have been goofy likely twisting an ankle in the dugout.
The rest I am dead serious about. Justin needs a change of scenery and is a great athlete. It would be a buy low deal (relatively speaking).
BJ and Justin on the same team would give you power, youth, speed and upside. Texas needs pitching and they have a phenom that can easily replace Elvis. In face expect them to trade Elvis to AZ for Upton should Hamilton get too greedy.
Prado belongs at 2B maybe 3B.
Uggla was brought here to be a 4 hitter. Wren now is saying a 5-6 (and he hasn’t even been that). He is and will continue to be a Lowe like position player in terms of lousy ROI. 13-14mm a year for terrible stats apart from walks and the now very occasional solo shot?
With Chipper gone the current line will be exposed and guys like Uggla who press will press even harder. If you think he was bad these past two years wait until 2013. BTW pressing is contagious both offensively and defensively. The Braves are the post children for that as we saw last week, last season, etc.
I would buy play off tickets for a team that went with this line up.
1B – FF
2B – Prado
SS – Elvis or Simmons
3B – Juan F ( or via trade)
RF – Heyward
CF – BJ Upton
LF – Justin Upton
C – Mac or a defensive whiz FA (with Ross as a back up)
That is a team that would win and has upside to boot. 3B and C are both iffy due to skill level (3B) and health (C). That is why I would consider moving Mac bc some AL team is going to look past the shoulder stuff and want to pay big bucks (dollars or trade pieces) to get him.
With that risky move you could secure a 3B prospect and more. It is time to stop relying on offense from behind the plate. The Braves need to spend that money in the OF, 3B etc where it belongs.
Having a great offensive catcher has won the Braves nothing. No rings, division titles just two one and done wild card spots.
Time to go back to basics.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Asked #STLCards coach Chris Maloney who works with team’s OFers, which catch was better, Jay’s or Crisp’s. At first, he said, “1 and 1A.”…
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
But then he thought about it and said Jay’s. Espinosa’s ball more of a bolt, Fielder’s had greater hang time. Maloney loved both, added..
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
“Jay gets the best breaks of anyone in the game. No one has a better idea of where the ball is going than Jon Jay.”
I see this guy’s defense underestimated by quite a few people (not necessarily here). Oh, if only Taveras were ready.
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
“But this is a bad idea for a team that finished 4 behind the Nats (who will NOT limit Strasburg’s innings next year).
Counterpoint: the Braves lost their best pitcher months before the Nats did.”
Counter-counterpoint: Braves lost their best hitter this year to retirement.
N8
October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
yeah. Many “faces” to the franchise to choose from moving forward. Freeman, Heyward, Simmons, Kimbrel, Medlen, Prado…
I’m more worried about production as to who is on the cover of the media guide.
jeffrey d
October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
Counter-countercounterpoint – shut it.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
“We Trout supporters”
Awful scary there Shaun….
Please, STEP BACK FROM THE KOOL-AID
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
Peter still comes here under a different moniker
Does he? Could you tell me what it is, or does he wish to remain incognito? I love that guy.
Trading for Willingham has become this message board’s equivalent of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football.
I wonder about the “interest” part. Could that have been number of years too many or some combination of years and dollars? Maybe last year was just a case of bad timing: couldn’t reasonably offer the guaranteed playing time? Something else, LOL? Dunno.
You could be right, though. Maybe the FO simply has a different profile in mind than many of us here. Otherwise, it’s hard to figure why Willingham’s performance and cost would not be attractive to them.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
Peter still comes here under a different moniker
Really? I did not know that at all. Do you happen to know which one, CB?
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
His .230 avg against LHP this year and his .260 career avg suggests otherwise…
And .208/.317/.465/.783 avg. against lefty pitchers last year… .206/.298/.433/.731 against lefty starters in 2011
Gone Viral
October 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
“Otherwise, it’s hard to figure why Willingham’s performance and cost would not be attractive to them.”
You are preaching to the choir.
Klaus
October 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
Wow massive typos via smart phone and old eyes. Sorry about that.
N8
October 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
“Counterpoint: the Braves lost their best pitcher months before the Nats did.”
Fair enough. But the Nats also didn’t have Werth for 81 games. Morse for 60 games and Ramos for 135 games.
The difference is, the Nats had depth. Starting 8 lineup, rotation and top 3 in the bullpen?
I’d say the Nats and Braves (like the Braves and Phillies in years past) were pretty even.
The nats found a way to win without those guys.
What if we had lost chipper, Heyward, Prado or Freeman for an extended period of time?
Also, as MF said. No chipper next year as well. Hard to say at this point.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
Does he? Could you tell me what it is, or does he wish to remain incognito? I love that guy.
Before other focuses, he was really, really funny on twitter. Then I listened to him talk through an interview once and he sounded much more calm than he seemed here on at CAC.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
GV-
If you don’t walk him, he’s really not that tough an out….
Oh, and the commentary about being a tough hitter w/ 2 strikes….Prado yes…..Willingham…HELL NO….
Career splits w/ 2 strikes: .171/.288/.297/.585
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
He makes it sound like the Braves would NEVER “diss” a player like Mac who has been a lifelong Brave…. when in fact, that’s exactly what they did to Justice (at least in his eyes at the time). — N8
Nate, I’m curious: Why do you compare cases that aren’t similar? Because they aren’t similar, just in case you’re clueless about that part of it.
McCann is a six-time All-Star who signed a long-term deal that bought out his arb years and a free-agent year and made him a bargain for the Braves for a few years when his production was at the very top of the scale for major league catchers. Now he’s got a salary of $12 mill in an option year, a salary that is STILL a bargain for a player who produced the numbers he produced every season until this past one, when he spent the first half of the year trying to overcome bad habits he developed after returning too quickly from injury in the second half of the 2011 season. Then he spent the last two months of this season playing with a twice-injected-with-cortisone shoulder that still throbbed.
Whatever his issues, surgery or rest should take care of them. No, there’s no guarantee of that. But there is a very good chance of it. A frayed labrum and a cyst are not typically the sort of injuries that signal career demise in a 28-year-old position player.
Yet if you were running things, you’d just kick him aside, a homegrown player who is beloved by a great many fans and all teammates, but more importantly who has been the best hitting catcher in the majors if you compare his stats since the day he arrived to all others over that period. Even worse, you’d actually pick up his option, at at still club-friendly $12 mill if he’s healthy for all or most of the season, and then TRADE HIM. Rather than just tell him hey, thanks for all you’ve done but we’re cutting you loose, which would at least give him a chance to sign with a team he prefers after he gets healthy.
Sometimes there are folks here on this blog who assume all Braves fans are as cynical and hard-bitten as they are. Let me assure you, the majority of them are not. Not the ones who buy tickets and show up at the ballpark and cheer like crazy for guys like Chipper and McCann, whom so many here turn on when either of them gets hurt or has a bad game/week/month.
And not even front-office types are as cold as you would be on this one, N8. Thankfully. Or else this organization would be no different than the Marlins.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
“We Trout supporters”
Awful scary there Shaun….
Please, STEP BACK FROM THE KOOL-AID
Huh? What’s scary about thinking Trout deserves the AL MVP? That means you’re part of some cult or something and it’s scary? I’m not following.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
I agree that Freeman and/or Heyward should now be the face or faces of the franchise. I just feel that with the loss of Chipper, the powers that be in the Braves’ brass will conservatively view McCann as the interim defacto face. I am not saying I agree or that it is right, but that is my theory. Of course, I also believe McCann can bounce back from the surgery. In the end, what do I know.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
Fin-
That is a bit of a head scratcher, because to me, our best hitter was Martin Prado….
Klaus-
Can I have some of what you’re smokin? Must be some great sh*t!
phil
October 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
Mac hasn’t done much but drag us down with him since the oblique injury….To heck with the past, we need to find a way to win a championship going forward. Otherwise, what are we doing?
Mac is an embarassment right now, injuries or not. If he gets well and bounces back, terrific. I love the guy. But if not, HE NEEDS TO GO BYE BYE.
Uggla needs to go bye bye, one way or the other. Now. Thanks but see ya.
BravePack(FreeFan)
October 10th, 2012
1:29 pm
I just wanted to share some thoughts today with my fellow Braves fans…while I was disappointed with the end of the season I can’t say I was surprised with the outcome. I didn’t think this team was quite ready yet to win it all. If they got hot and somehow did I would’ve been very happy for Chipper and us fans. Too many holes in the offense to win it all. That being said I was very happy with the team winning 94 games despite Mac hitting .220 and injured, Uggla having another down year as far as power and average, season ending injury to Beachy, and the offense slumping at the end of the year. Saying that, Chipper is gone and it is time for a new era of Braves baseball, one in which I and all Braves fans should be excited about.
Braves fans look at what Wren has built, and is still building here: The twin towers and horror show to strike fear into opposing teams of Freddie and Jason. Both with huge potential and still young. Jason seemed to turn the corner this year and will have a huge year entering his 4th next season. Freddie will be in his 3rd year and didn’t really have a sophomore slump this year as his numbers would have been better if not for his eye troubles which should be corrected before next season. Big year for Freddie next year as well. We have a great up and coming SS in Simmons who has great D and seemed to handle the bat well. Uggla and Mac are wild cards but I believe will both be here and can only improve next season after down and injured years.
Pitching is this teams strength. Good young pitchers in Medlen, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Graham, Sims. One of the best bullpens in the game, if not the best. The best closer in the game who is still young in Kimbrel to go along with Venters and O’ Flaherty.
Added to all that the Braves have $ to spend this offseason and arms to make a trade. I can’t begin to imagine what Wren has up his sleeve. What I do know is he has the tools to get some major pieces for this team to go along with an already strong team that won 94 games without production from 2 major players. Be excited Braves fans as this is only the beginning.
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
Damn DOB,
Maybe lighten up a little my man…. Lighten up tiger, it’s all good. Frankie
Lighten up “tiger”? I’m going to pretend you didn’t actually say that, or anything else in your comment.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
It’s one thing to say you’re going with Miggy for the AL MVP, it’s another to think Trout isn’t deserving of it. He absolutely is. They both are, really. Most every year their totals would of been by far enough to capture it.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
BP-
Very well put….
Great job there my friend.
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
“Fin- That is a bit of a head scratcher, because to me, our best hitter was Martin Prado….”
Chipper by far had the best OPS. Him and Heyward. Either way, we lost our best overall on base, slugging hitter. Gonna need to replace that.
Willingham vs lefties
2012 .231/.356/.564/.920
2011 .208/.317/.465/.783
Car. .250/.369/.503/.872
Arkansas Transplant
October 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
Sounds like a good plan… let’s go shopping in Texas and come home with Olt and Craig.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
Cardinals up 1-0.
I mean, they aren’t really going to win ANOTHER World Series, are they? Just an incredibly deep team with more staying power than probably any other organization. They spend enough money too.
DS1
October 10th, 2012
1:36 pm
N8
Last thought on the subject at hand. Then I gotta hop off for a bit.
The Braves really can’t afford to go into a season ultra prepared. Last year we had questions about Heyward, Hudson and Prado’s health; and Chipper’s playing time. Yet our answer was Matt Diaz and Juan Francisco. Not ideal.
So I am not sure the Braves will change the approach in 2013 concerning Mac. Unless the results of his rest/surgery are more ominous.
To be honest, you look at the Nats and they definitely have some potential question marks. Granted, they have some incredible young talent, but no team has all contingencies covered.
I just think that you (and others) that go off on the catching situation with the Braves are barking up the wrong tree. I understand the thought, but in reality Mac’s option will be picked up and he will be our catcher in 2013, if healthy.
I am more concerned that we lock up Prado this winter and coax Reed Johnson and David Ross back. And that we add a few more able bats to the bench.
phil
October 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
The cat claws are out today, here and there! lol
We need to use some on Uggla, maybe wake the guy up from his 2 year coma….
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
I agree that Freeman and/or Heyward should now be the face or faces of the franchise.
They might be the “face”, but it’s pretty hard to be the “leader” when you’re still figuring out which bars to hit while on the road.
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
Hey DOB,
Can I ask you a few questions?
1.. Do you think Fredi has another season next year with the Braves and if we fail to advance in the playoffs do you see the Braves making a coaching change?
2. Any chance Liberty Media sell Braves during off season?
3. What would you do for a klondike bar?
First question has been asked for, oh, 14 months. Nobody can answer that hypothetical with any knowledge. The second question has been asked for, oh, 3-4 years. Answer hasn’t changed. No sign, as of now, that they’re going to, despite what you’ll hear in 50 rumors.
The third question: Pay about 50 cents for one. I’d rather have a cup of coffee.
Patee
October 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
Braves decided they’ll shop at Target now rather than Walmart…. boy, we fans are just so excited to hear this news because it means we’ll get slightly better over-the-hill retreads.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:39 pm
Fin-
Chipper playing only as many games as he did rules him out….
Can’t consider someone your best hitter from the bench….
Prado had 1 month where he batted below .270 and OPSed below .750…Heyward had 3 & 2
Sorry but I am gonna go w/ Prado….Prado is the correct answer
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:41 pm
One could argue that Huddy being out a month, and “settling” for Minor and guys like Livan along with Pastornicky last April and May, might have been the difference in the division and the wildcard. — N8
Yeah, one without baseball acumen might argue that “settling” for Minor was a bad thing. But others would realize that Minor won a spot based on his performance in spring training, when he was the team’s best starting pitcher (did you take the spring off, Wayne, not follow any Braves?) And they would also probably realize that sticking with him when he struggled early in the season resulted in the Braves having the most improved starting pitcher in the NL in the second half, and a guy whose confidence has increased exponentially because he wasn’t yanked from the rotation or banished to the minor leagues.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:41 pm
Efrim-
Well…they hit….and they hit….and then they hit some more….
I don’t know who does their scouting and their minor league development as far as hitting is concerned, but they continuously produce solid ML hitters and then add pieces here and there around them….
Worse off, they have finally learned how to draft and develop pitchers too…
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:41 pm
“Sorry but I am gonna go w/ Prado….Prado is the correct answer”
I’m fine with that. Probably give him team MVP too. But when Chipper was playing he produced at the highest level of all Braves. Still going to have to replace that somehow. Guy had more walks than strikeouts. The rest of the team basically struck out twice as many times as walks. Tough to score runs when everyone is striking out. Prado was one of the few others that didn’t strikeout as much.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
Fin-
Oh, and FWIW….your pick Chipper had 4 & 2 in months under .270 BA and .750 OPS….
Prado was the most consistent day in day out and he played in 156 games….played all over the field and still was consistent….he was the best hitter.
DS1
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
Hey, I LOVE Target!! And Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club.
While they were growing up, I told my boys if they don’t have it at Wal-Mart, Target or Sam’s, YOU don’t need it!
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
Then I listened to him talk through an interview once and he sounded much more calm than he seemed here on at CAC.
Medical school doesn’t surprise me…PDub was scary smart. Self-assured about his opinions, but open to be convinced otherwise. In many cases, anyway, LOL, though not all.
Reminded me of…me.
Venice Jim
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
Ooopss….
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
And that we add a few more able bats to the bench.
Rev is better than Hack
Johnson is better than Diaz
Ross is Ross (a Boss)
Anyone is better than Hinske
Juan could be gone
I’d say that by losing Jack Wilson and Hinske, we’ve made the bench better already. Dropped of 2 sub-Mendoza hitters. All we really need is a bat at 1B. Mejia may fill that role, I’m not seeing a really good name in FA.
Shaun
October 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
I would say in hindsight the Justice trade is not exactly the example the current Braves should look to follow as an example of an exemplary trade. I can’t think of many moves that were worse in the Schurholz era. The Braves seemed to undervalue Justice and overvalue guys like Lofton and Jermaine Dye.
I’m still not sure David Justice gets the credit he deserves as a player. .378 OBP and a .500 SLG for his career, and hardly any seasons that were anything less that very good. One could make the case that Justice had a pretty similar career to Jim Rice. Rice had a couple of seasons in which he had a noticeably more value than Justice at his best. But Rice had three seasons where he pretty much added nothing whereas Justice never had any seasons where he added no value to his teams.
The Braves could have had an outfield of Klesko-Andruw-Justice into the late 1990’s, which would have been a force.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:44 pm
And Pete Kozma homers to left. 4-0 Cardinals.
When Pete Kozma hits HR’s, you know you’ve got some good luck going your way….
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:45 pm
“But others would realize that Minor won a spot based on his performance in spring training, when he was the team’s best starting pitcher”
Of course maybe the GM’s took Spring Training off when they didn’t start Medlen in the rotation as well. Kris and his 0.82 ERA in Spring Training when Delgado,Teheran, and Jurrjens were all getting crushed with their 6+ ERAs.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
Efrim-
As I said….the baseball Gods love them and they get all the breaks….and once again makes me wanna puke!
David O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
Cardinals up 1-0.
I mean, they aren’t really going to win ANOTHER World Series, are they? Just an incredibly deep team with more staying power than probably any other organization. They spend enough money too. — Efrim
Yeah, and draw fans. Their $110 million opening day payroll ranked 10th in the majors. Their average attendance, even after letting Albert Pujols go, was 40,272, which ranked sixth in the majors this season, more than 30 percent higher than the Braves (29,878).
DS1
October 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
Will the Strasburg decision (of how/when to start using him) be the Nat’s undoing?
But the Cardinals???
Damn! (they do have some scary talent!)
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
Jon Jay, Allen Craig and David Freese – all late bloomers in terms of prospect status and they ALL hit it big with them. That rarely happens.
And of course they have great starting pitching with pitching prospects hitting 98-100mph.
Tumbledown
October 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
The baseball gods sure smiled on the Yankees and Cards. These two teams have won a combined 38 of the last 88 World Series. I am jealous!
MFin04
October 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
Anyone else on here actually want the Cardinals to win the World Series? I realize they beat us, but I like the makeup of their team, their never say die attitude, and their remarkable ability to lose the greatest hitter in all of NL baseball and still make the playoffs and possibly go deep.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
Fin-
But once again, if Meds had started from the get go, we would be in the situation Washington is in now and as you can see, its not working all too great for them for the time being…
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
But the Cardinals???
Reds will hospitalize those guys.
Frankie
October 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
“I agree that Freeman and/or Heyward should now be the face or faces of the franchise.
They might be the “face”, but it’s pretty hard to be the “leader” when you’re still figuring out which bars to hit while on the road.”
The whole “leader” mentality is such interesting topic for debate. What is a leader on a 25 man baseball team? Guy who demands total respect in a clubhouse? Somebody who carries your team periodically throughout the course of the season? How important is it to a team to take the personality of it’s leader?
Chipper was a leader for this team. How good of a leader, hard to decipher. Production was solid and led by example. Looks like he had the upmost respect from his teammates(especially the young guys). Still at the end of the day was he a great leader? Debateable. Certainly his comments regarding the wildcard playin game a couple of weeks back didn’t demonstrate strong leadership. Very negative and just maybe it reflected the team’s play on the field Friday night. Maybe it didn’t.
To me the whole leadership concept is a little overated. Hit a 3 run homerun in the 8th inning putting your team ahead and that can be construed as leadership. Regardless, if we have a “leader” next season, Prado probably is a guy most should emulate. Heyward and Freeman have great futures but lets be careful on designation of leaders on the team.
Efrim
October 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
And the Beltran signing was one of the smartest signings of last winter. Two years, $25 million – a bargain for an elite outfielder.
Frankie
October 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
“Anyone else on here actually want the Cardinals to win the World Series? I realize they beat us, but I like the makeup of their team, their never say die attitude, and their remarkable ability to lose the greatest hitter in all of NL baseball and still make the playoffs and possibly go deep’
Like them or hate them, but have to give them total respect. That’s a strong organization over there top to bottom. Matheny showed some inexperience at times this season but he will be a very good Mgr IMO.
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Fin-
No….
HELL NO!
If they do again, the torture that I get on a daily basis will NEVER stop!
Mountain Braves Fan
October 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
In addition to his .920 OPS versus LHP in 2012, Willingham hit 15 home runs and drove in 37 RBIs versus lefties in only 156 at bats. Overall, the guy had 35 HRs, 110 RBIs, and an .890 OPS. While he may be a defensive liability and an injury risk, and the trade price may be too high, Willingham can definitely hit. Interestingly, he hit better at home at Target Field (1.018 OPS) than on the road (.770 OPS).
ncscoots
October 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Will the Strasburg decision (of how/when to start using him) be the Nat’s undoing?
Yeah, but are they even in the playoffs if Strasburg sits out eight starts at the beginning of the season? No if-then-else in baseball; just what is.
DS1
October 10th, 2012
1:54 pm
scoots
Impossible to say, really. Maybe we beat them out of the division. But who’s to say that the pitcher taking those starts wouldn’t have done OK.
But it’s all academic now…….
P-Town Brave ©
October 10th, 2012
1:54 pm
DOB-
Since you’re talking about fan support and since I had this conversation w/ a number of people while I was in ATL last week….
Do you think MARTA not creating a rail line that was discussed running right outside the ballpark could have contributed to increased attendance?
Granted people like to complain about everything, especially convenience, but I’d say majority of the people I talked to suggested that if MARTA had built a line right outside the park attendance would increase by about 33%