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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
169 comments Add your comment
Carl Farvman
October 7th, 2012
2:50 pm
Curtis, perhaps. I haven’t really analyzed to that level. My take as a fan is to just work within the framework of how the league decides teams can get to the postseason and, hopefully, the team you follow makes it in and can do some damage. Georgia, on the other hand, is using cute acounting terms–Earned and UnEarned–to make himself feel better. Weird stuff. I’ve never whined about teams I’ve followed like that during my entire life.
In Old Savannah Forum
October 7th, 2012
3:08 pm
“The only FAIR way to do this is to eliminate the geographic divisions and have the top 4 teams from each league play in the postseason.”
If they can’t work out a format where the two wild cards would play in a 3 game playoff then I believe your suggestion would be better.
Personally I don’t see where having a second wild card was necessary. Was there an official rationale given for this mistake?
I remember when there were no divisions and the top team from the American league played the top team from the National league. Of course this was before pitch counts and multimillion dollar contracts.
Curtis W.
October 7th, 2012
3:14 pm
IOSF, the only true rationale for a second wild card team, as I mentioned in a much earlier post, is for MLB to make more $$$$$MONEY$$$$$. By creating more interest amongst the fan bases of four or five marginal teams who have a shot at the second wild card, several MLB owners fill more seats and make some additional revenue from radio and TV.
Rowsdower
October 7th, 2012
3:44 pm
The infield fly rule is intended to keep the defense from intentionally dropping the ball and getting 2 or 3 force outs. It is not meant to bail out the defense when they cannot catch a ball. In this instance, the ball landed 225 ft from home plate. There is no way Kozma could possibly drop that ball intentionally and get even ONE out with the runners halfway. Given this evidence, the call should never have been made.
There is a very simple fix to the rule. The spirit of the rule is protect the offense. The infield fly can be invoked if the criteria are met, BUT if the defense fails to catch the ball, all runners are awarded 1 base and can run beyond that base at their own peril. This preserves the spirit of the rule and eliminates the offense being punished when the defense fails to do their job. A batter should never be out when the ball isn’t caught. NEVER.
Panama Red
October 7th, 2012
4:15 pm
This has been done to death but I ‘ve got to get this off my chest. Yeah, the Braves were down three runs. Yeah, they committed three errors. But bases loaded,one out,late in the game, with their best clutch hitters coming up, you had to like their chances. How many times had they come back and won a game like this??? How many times this year??? This was a brutal call, folks. Whats worse is that Mr. Sam Holbrook lacks the balls to admit, after the fact, that he blew the call. C’mon dude….MAN UP!!! Joe Torre and MLB uphold the call because what else are they going to do??? They didnt have a contingency plan for this, so to save face, they have to back their “umpire”.
Curtis W.
October 7th, 2012
4:21 pm
I neglected to mention the obvious additional revenue to MLB from the two additional wild card games themselves. Folks, this isn’t about what is good for baseball or what is fair. This is about management and labor and how management can use labor to produce additional revenue. Labor is willing to go along with it on the grounds that some of the additional revenue can translate into higher player salaries in the long run.
Jeffery McDaniel
October 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
Lets Dan Uggla folks. Please do not blame anything on the infield fly. Lets talk about Uggla. It’s time for folks to realize he is a major void in the lineup. The throw by Chipper was not good. However Uggla’s attempt was garbage. He needed to catch the ball first. But no, he can’t do the basic things. The guy is a head case. He can’t handle stressful situations. Pathetic defense and obviously nothing with bat. You can’t expect a guy to flip a switch in post season who has batted under 200 for three full months during the season. I understand fredi feels like he needed to play him all year due to his contract. However, you can’t penalize the entire team just because your GM gave him an overinflated contract. Wren needs reevaluate his process of acquiring talent. It would be truly nice if he would admit this is one of the worst acquisitions in Braves history. It’s not like Uggla doesn’t want to improve. He does in the most adamant way. Unfortunately he just lacks the talent to overcome his mental deficiencies. It’s very sad. We know he will back next year with an almost certain repeat performance. Lets lay the blame where it belongs. The braves played an entire season with a seven batter lineup. You can’t expect to go deep into October with this…
Jim
October 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
I guess it was the newly-formulated Outfield Fly Rule that Sam was invoking: “If the Atlanta Braves are batting with less than three outs, any fly to the outfield is considered to be at the umpire’s discretion”.
harry taylor
October 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
Why all this talk about the infield fly rule. The game was lost on defense by the Braves so called best player. Debate the fly rule all you want. The real culprit is the Braves and their problem of not winning a post season series in over 10 years.
Remember all you gamblers, if Braves manage to make it to the post season playoffs next year, bet against the Braves. That is the closest thing to a sure bet.
DH
October 7th, 2012
4:51 pm
Here’s a way to “clarify or improve” the infield fly rule: get rid of it. I’ve never figured out why we have it or what its purpose is anyway.
Carl Farvman
October 7th, 2012
4:52 pm
Jim, the best teams in both leagues, ideally, is what you want to see in the playoffs. Do you really think the Braves look like a top-notch team right now?
MH Brown
October 7th, 2012
4:53 pm
1. The infield fly rule is an ugly attempt to correct a assumed defect in the game. There is no defect, however, and Ii should be eliminated. If the pop fly ends up leading to a double or triple play, so what? How is that any different than a weakly hit ground ball ending up as a double play? It is an inelegant wart on an otherwise elegant game.
2. The playoffs should work like this, if you really want eight teams involved: Have two leagues: American and National. The top four teams in each league play each other, one plays four and two plays three. The winners play each other to end up with one overall winner from each leagues. The two remaining teams play the World Series. They should all be seven games series to keep it from being nothing more than a crap shoot for television. This isn’t rocket science.
Rowsdower
October 7th, 2012
5:04 pm
DH – If the rule wasn’t in place the infielder could drop the ball intentionally and get 2 or 3 outs. That is the purpose of the rule and it’s necessary to protect the baserunners.
In this instance, Holbrook invoked it to protect the defense. You fix the rule by penalizing the defense for not catching the ball, not arbitrarily calling the batter out.
Harry – I’m not blaming the loss on the call. Did it impact the game? Absolutely. Are the Braves going to win if the correct is made? Who knows? There in lies the problem. Bases loaded with one out is HUGELY different than 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs.
Revise the rule and we don’t have to worry about that nonsense impacting the game.
Curtis W.
October 7th, 2012
5:09 pm
MH, we are in total agreement on how the playoffs SHOULD work — get rid of the Divisions and just have the top 4 teams from each league in the playoffs. The problem is that the reason MLB instituted the Divisions in the first place was to further regional rivalries between the Red Sox and Yankees, Dodgers and Giants, Cardinals and Cubs, Braves and Mets. They see this as increasing fan interest and boosting ticket sales and ad revenue. And that may be right, it probably does increase their revenue. But it isn’t what will produce a FAIR outcome. Under the current system, each team plays its regional rivals more games than it plays teams outside its division. That’s good for revenue, bad for fairness. If you want an honest and fair MLB season, then each team should play every other team in its league the same number of times and Interleague games should not even count in the standings unless you can assure that all National League teams play the same exact American league teams the same number of times.
Rowsdower
October 7th, 2012
5:11 pm
MH Brown – If you do away with the rule you penalizing the offense because the runners would be stuck in no man’s land on an infield pop-up. If they run and it’s caught, they’re screwed. If they stay and it’s dropped, they’re screwed.
There is nothing wrong with the rule when it is applied correctly, which it wasn’t the other night. You fix the rule by awarding all runners one base if the infielder fails to complete the catch. This protects the offense and never rewards the defense for their screw-up.
jed
October 7th, 2012
5:26 pm
if holbrook had made that call in philly, new york or boston, there’d have been a riot. i’m all for fans being civil at games. it’s important, for certain. but frankly, i’m glad braves fans littered the field. that was for drew coble (hrbek/gant) and eric gregg, as well. those games were on the road. this time, they jobbed us at home. the hell with joe simpson kissing up to MLB…good job, atlanta!
Rowsdower
October 7th, 2012
5:37 pm
I agree, jed. I don’t blame them one bit. I would’ve done the same thing had I been there. I was throwing stuff in my house to support my fellow Braves fans.
GT alums have brains
October 7th, 2012
6:02 pm
David – the attendance was only SLIGHTLY UP this year because it was Chipper’s last year and that brought out a lot more fans. You’re not that bright. Are you UGA?
74bravesjersey
October 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
@ Tim, Man, lost the much respects that I’d thought to give to a knowledgeable Baseball fan, & you mentioned if that occured against the Cardinals, there would’ve been blood to pay, wow, oh yeah, thanks to you’re Alton Mizzouri native Sam Holbrook, just to make sure his Redbirds Backdoor there way in. Sam Holbrook Hails from Alton Mizzouri, wow, good call from one being unbiased huh? Alton, just out side of St. Louie,
74bravesjersey
October 7th, 2012
7:20 pm
Sam Holbrook, Alton Mizzouri Native, He loves his RedBirds!
74bravesjersey
October 7th, 2012
7:23 pm
Joe simpsons a puppet; he was on national stage, yeah!
Brave New World
October 7th, 2012
8:22 pm
Holbrook blew the call, but the Braves defense (Chipper, Uggla, and Simmons) blew the game. Time to move on.
GRAPHITE
October 7th, 2012
9:23 pm
One more time.When the old stadium was built on Indian ceremonial and burial grounds,the Chief and Medicine Man of the Appalachacola Creek Tribe put a curse on anyone that occupied the land.Only disapointment and misery will find those….better believe it.
Mark
October 7th, 2012
10:06 pm
Season is over and I quit bashing Uggla during the year. However, you have to look no further than Uggla to figure out where the year went wrong. 94 wins and the right handed bat that was suppose to get us over the hump hung around 220 and led the league in Ks or was right there competing for it.
Then he gets no mention on Chippers error in the wildcard game but he was late getting to the bag and couldn’t catch anyhting but a perfect throw the way he was running in there. He should have caught the ball and kept it out of right field.
Uggla has been a huge disappointment and a burden to whatever spot in the order he was in and the payroll.
I vote to eat the salary and send him packing for whatever we can get.
James (JImmy) Folsom
October 7th, 2012
10:07 pm
It is sad that the Braves management has not vehemently denounced MLB’s decision to uphold the “blown call.” Anyway, I am a loyal Braves fan and have been since I first started following them in 1968. They had a very good season in 1969, but got swept by the Mets in the NLCS. Back then I remember WSB showing some regular season games on Sunday afternoons. I guess it was WSB. We had cable tv in my hometown of Adel and got several Atlanta stations. Hank would strike out sometimes, but not as much as players today. In 1970 Braves catcher Earl Williams had a very good season. I believe he was rookie of the year. Go Braves!
Have The Braves EVER Gotten A Controversial Playoff Call To GoTheir Way?
October 8th, 2012
1:33 am
I have been with the Braves thick-thin since 1990 and I can not remember one.
I remember Gant’s leg being pulled off 1st base.
I remember Eric Gregg’s 5 ft Strike Zone.
I remember the Braves lack of timingly hitting several times.
I remember the Braves bullpen blowing several games, wasting The Big Threes stellar performances.
ButI just CAN NOT remember one time when I pivotal playoff call when in the Braves Favor.
And this last perormance -the umpire clearlyy screwed it. And the Commissione had an opportunity and time to correct it, But chose not to do so….
Have The Braves EVER Gotten A Conterversial Playoff Call To GoTheir Way?
October 8th, 2012
1:33 am
I have been with the Braves thick-thin since 1990 and I can not remember one.
I remember Gant’s leg being pulled off 1st base.
I remember Eric Gregg’s 5 ft Strike Zone.
I remember the Braves lack of timingly hitting several times.
I remember the Braves bullpen blowing several games, wasting The Big Threes stellar performances.
ButI just CAN NOT remember one time when I pivotal playoff call when in the Braves Favor.
And this last perormance -the umpire clearlyy screwed it. And the Commissione had an opportunity and time to correct it, But chose not to do so….
reason
October 8th, 2012
8:14 am
Juan Francisco is not repeat is not a full time player, he would set a new
strike out major league recorded.
McCann, should take be a back-up catcher for a season.
Why take it out on Fredi, he got the Braves in the play-off.
It was Joe Torres and the umpire who blow the game for the Braves.
If anyone needs to be fire, make it Torres and the Dewitt umpire who conspired against the Braves.
The Braves players from Uggle to Jones and especially Bourne did a bad job, and hopefully Bourne won’t be back next year and the Braves trade Uggle to a triple A team, that is where he belongs. Someone in the Braves front office has got to start using what they have between their ears.
Don
October 8th, 2012
9:03 am
No surprise, with two weak defensive positions in the infield (3rd base and 2nd base) these were significantly exposed.
No question, the infield fly call was a terrible call – the infielder was already pulling off the ball to favor the outfielder.
However, there is no assurance that the Braves would have taken advantage of the situation even if this call had not been made – with McCann comming up – without the delay and confusion, the Cardinal closer comming in probably would not have walked him.
The turning point to losing the game was Chipper’s error.
And this is not the first year in which his defense has been key in taking the Braves out of the Playoffs.
Don
October 8th, 2012
9:03 am
No surprise, with two weak defensive positions in the infield (3rd base and 2nd base) these were significantly exposed.
No question, the infield fly call was a terrible call – the infielder was already pulling off the ball to favor the outfielder.
However, there is no assurance that the Braves would have taken advantage of the situation even if this call had not been made – with McCann comming up – without the delay and confusion, the Cardinal closer comming in probably would not have walked him.
The turning point to losing the game was Chipper’s error.
And this is not the first year in which his defense has been key in taking the Braves out of the Playoffs.
LivinInAL
October 8th, 2012
9:16 am
It was a judgement call, HOWEVER, if that ball had fallen at the warning track, MLB and the umps
would have ruled the same sweet way and never had any “doubt to a man on the umpire crew” that it was an infield fly.
Barry
October 8th, 2012
9:21 am
Should’ve gone with Prado at 2B and the new guy (forgot his name–the guy from the Cubs) in LF…not only would this be better than having Ugla at 2B defensively, but also Prado was shaky in LF…he got burnt on a ball that I could not believe he couldn’t get back to catch….was not that impressive of a hit. That was one or two of the cards runs. Also, WTF on that fly to CF where Bourn didn’t even look like he cared to try and throw the runner out at home from shallow CF…air mailed a ball into the stands…didnt set him self up for the throw or anything. so many things about this game just left me shell shocked.
ALJ
October 8th, 2012
9:21 am
Screwed by the OUT-FIELD fly rule. If I was the manager I would have gone out there for 10 minutes with the Umpire and kept pointing back and forth, Infield, Outfield, Infield, Outfield.
Don
October 8th, 2012
10:48 am
Speaking of pitching for next year.
Do you REMEMBER:
Do you remember how great J.J. was before his first injury????
Do you remember how great Hanson was before his fires injury????
Do you remember how great Beachy was before his injury????
Is there any other team that has ever had its three great young pitchers injured like this??????
Will the writers ever address this problem?????
Mark Duncan
October 8th, 2012
10:57 am
Hey Tim Cardinal fan, screw you. Braves fans had every right to be angry at that insane call. I live in Albany NY and I was throwing things and would have down at the Ted if I was there. What that call did was take the bat out of Prado’s hands with the bases juiced. In that scenario I like our chances. Finally, as far as Pres. Carter and Ted Turner go, why do I get the feeling they may have accomplished a little more in life than you. You’re a sanctimonious sap. Go Braves!
Don
October 8th, 2012
11:02 am
It is difficult to understand why Fredi did not stay out there on the call until he was ejected from the game – to make the point.
However, even if the call had not been made, there is no real reason to think that it would have changed anything – with McCann coming up and the Cardinal closer coming in (without all the delay and confusion).
The two big problems were:
(1) The lack of Braves hitting (as usual in pressure situations) with runners on base.
(2) And most significantly – there is no place to hide on a baseball field – With two weak defensive positions (3rd base and 2nd base), these were significantly exposed.
The turning point for the Braves loss was Chippers error. No question, Chipper (in his prime) has been a great, great hitter – ever greater than given credit for – because of his great hitting against the best pitchers, and in close games, and in late innings of close games. However, he has never been very good defensively (limited range for one thing). And this is not the first time that his defense has been key in taking the Braves out of Playoffs.
hunter55
October 8th, 2012
11:03 am
All I ever hear is Chipper the hall of famer, BS power hitting hall of famer’s when they play 19 years have at least 500 HR’s he dosen’t, and hall of famers have moments in post season games that make us all remember, he does for the bad things not the great things. Good career do doupt, but hall of famer, my opinion NO. Chipper played in a ton of post season games, can anyone remember a defining moment.
coach k
October 8th, 2012
11:04 am
This team was good enough to win it all!! Problem same ole story, when the playoffs hit, we don’t go from white collar to blue collar, no attitude, just clueless baseball when it counts the most. Need to spend the money we save wisely and get a huge bat for left field and Uggla is now on a very short lease. If he starts out bad by all star break package him and hansen. Quit all the hugging and smack some folks, same lame ass approach since 96. Curse of Justice serves us right for trading the only guy with heart and attitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick C
October 8th, 2012
11:59 am
Don, Beachy had TJ surgery. It’s not like it’s an uncommon injury for pitchers.
hunter55, so his other numbers don’t warrant HOF simply because he didn’t reach 500 HRs or, in your opinion, a signification post season moment? You’re an idiot.
RickinWarnerRobins
October 8th, 2012
12:14 pm
Fire Fredi and McDowell and maybe other coaches…hire coaches strong on fundamentals. At some point, bring Chipper back into the organization as a coach or even a manager…he can do a better job than Fredi by a long shot.
DMac
October 8th, 2012
12:17 pm
Was anyone else disappointed that Freddi didn’t make the umps throw him out after that “infield” fly call?
DMac
October 8th, 2012
12:19 pm
Did anyone else notice that the Braves were the first team to lose a Wildcard game AND the first team to lose a divisional playoff series (1969 to the Mets)?
jake
October 8th, 2012
12:49 pm
-Outlook For Next MLB Season :
Marlins, Mets and Phillies all BETTER in 2013 -Nats at least as good as 2012- Braves ????????
Rick C
October 8th, 2012
2:03 pm
jake, the Marlins are in complete disarray right now. They should have been better this year, but weren’t. The Mets shouldn’t be any different next year. The Phillies will have Howard and Utley for the full year next year, but they traded away some valuable guys and they still have some questions about CF and 3B. Didn’t everyone say last year that all the teams improved except the Braves? Look how that worked out for them.
BaseBill
October 8th, 2012
2:27 pm
Yes, the Braves made costly errors, but when the ‘bad call’ was made, they were on the verge of a rally. Mr Torre said you can’t protest a ‘judgement’ call. Mr Torre…….a foul ball is a judgement call…….a ‘trapped’ ball is a judgement call……..a balk is a judgement call……..fan interference is a judgement call…….the difference between obstruction and interference is a judgement call…….Mr Torre, what the hell can a manager protest ? ………the brand of bubble gum (or beer, if you’re in Boston) brought into the dugout ? It’s time for MLB to figure out how to make proper calls, and get things correct. They are losing dignity…..like screwing a pitcher out of a perfect game a few years back, on a call that wasn’t even close. The IFR call during this game was horrendous, and Mr Torre wants us to believe the proper call was made. Mr Torre is influenced by Selig, playoff TV schedules, and commercials. Mr Torre, we aren’t as ignorant as your boss thinks we are. I’ve lost all respect for Mr Torre (I lost respect for his boss years ago)……………..BB
You got the love « Copacabana
October 8th, 2012
2:55 pm
[...] my friend Bay mentioned this weekend, kinda found it appropriate and a fitting protest. I like that Gonzalez protested the entire game because the officiating wasn’t all that good from jump (Pops disagrees, saying the [...]
hunter55
October 8th, 2012
3:02 pm
Rick C, 19 years dosen’t qualify you for the hall of fame, name one big moment from any post season game by Chipper, just one. Calling me an idiot because it’s my opinion shows your intellegence, now go back to the basement and eat your hot pockets.
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:28 pm
@ Don; @ Base Bill; @ coach k @ james(jimmy)folson; AGREE W/ each of these;@ Al J; right on, & st louie can thank their cousin sammy for his assumptionally judgement call, @ livinAL; @ RowzDowzer; You hit it right on, MLB is tainted & monumentally will be forever etched in our minds, This was obviously fixed; The Cards we’re gett’n shook up from the mommentum the Braves had for a game changer, & cuz’n Sammy was not goin’ to allow his RedBirds go out like that. Good Cheat Sammy, Good Cheat buddy!
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:30 pm
& our beloved mgr & gm quietly backed down from Torre’s decision, that sucks! Weak!
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:38 pm
I’m Pissed, but somebody mentioned in one of the other blogs that Sammy is a resident or hails from Alton Mizzou, just outside Stlouie, Hmmmm?
BJ
October 8th, 2012
3:44 pm
For the Cardinals fan(s) who called Braves fans classless because they threw stuff on the field, get off your high horse and get your facts straight. The Cardinals fans did it before the Braves fans ever did. Look up Mark McGwire – 1998 – he got tossed out of a game for arguing balls and strikes. He was battling Sosa in the homerun competition. The Cardinals fans went crazy after he was thrown out of the game. They threw all sorts of things on the field – including baseballs. And I do recall there was an incident where Cardinals fans threw give away seat cushions on the field (may have been the same incident – don’t quite remember). My point is, it’s been done before. Is it right, no. Understandable, yes. When you pay that kind of money, take off work to be there, show that much investment in the team, and you get screwed over (as we clearly did), emotions run high and things happen.
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:44 pm
Nats win 1 – 0 in series, yeah, a little retribution, bitter sweet, Need a big sweep Nats.
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:45 pm
Big point BJ!
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:46 pm
Red Birds back side gett’n defeathered! LoL!
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:50 pm
@ BJ; You said it all, right there man. MLB has no integrity, & the fans were giving it to them because of there blatenate missed call. Obviouse Biased Call!
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:52 pm
Misspelled “Obvious” w/ an “e” my bad.
74bravesjersey
October 8th, 2012
3:59 pm
Boston, Bronx, philly, might’ve thrown anything, Bedlam would not be controlled unless military would’ve been involved. The Riots! I think Atl was pretty tammed, & o’l simpson really verbally eyebrowed(beat) us down, huh?
Dick Dodge
October 8th, 2012
4:15 pm
It is getting old hearing Braves fans complain about the new Wild Card format.
The genius of the new format..is that WINNING the division is REWARDED (by earning an entry into the Division Series),..while being one of the two Wild Cards (no matter how much better a record one WC has over the other) warrants having to play the play-in game in order to get into the Division Series.
The Giants won 103 games in 1993..and didnt have the luxury of a Wild Card play-in game.
If the Braves management had better decisions (like not having Randal Delgado make 17 starts…like not waiting until July 31st to give Kris Medlen his first start of the season)…if Braves players had actually taken care of business on the field (like not taking the month of September off from an offensive standpoint…like getting a clutch hit with runners in scoring position)….then we would have won the division.
Bottom line, we deserved the ramifications that came with the Wild Card play-in game. We deserve being in a position of being susceptible to bad luck (like a bad call costing us a chance to come back in the 8th inning).
I love the Wild Card set-up now, because from an entertainment standpoint…it forces you to play your A game, RIGHT AWAY. The sense of urgency that has been sorely needed for a number of years with this organization…simply failed to rise on Friday. The Cardinals, once again, rose up when the chips were down…while we (and this is a familiar storyline)…choked away our season.
Maybe in 2013…Braves management will put us in a position (and give us some more players who can deliver a clutch hit..as well as stay healthy) where by winning the division…our margin for error wont come down to a one game Wild Card play-in game.
Blaming the umpire, blaming Bud Selig…may make many of you feel better, however it DOES NOTHING to change the fact that we shot ourselves in the foot several times in the game…as well as during the regular season. Instead, you guys should be directing your anger at Braves management AND the Braves players.
We had a 162 games to show that we were worthy of avoiding a one game play-in game. Plain simply…we didnt.
Dan Uggla's Swing
October 8th, 2012
4:34 pm
Cardinals (or any other) fans calling Braves fans “Classeless” is hilarious. It wasn’t that long ago Card’s fans did the same exact thing, except the ump had gotten the call correct, and you guys still threw crap on the field. Pot meet kettle. Yankee’s fans: pouring a beer on an outfielder as he went back to make a catch at the wall, Phillie’s fans: throwing batteries on the field, lets not forget the “vomit incident”. Wasn’t it San Fran fans that beat up a guy because he was gay (somewhere on the west coast anyway). Mets fans: not enough room in this blog. Yeah, I suppose it looked bad for Braves fans to have done that, but I understand why. The mounting frustration of your team committing three errors, the mounting frustration of your team not scoring runs and leaving men on base, the mounting frustration of realizing your team is about to be done for the season because some jerk, who’s name starts with the letter Bud Selig, has continually done things to ruin the sport all in the name of a dollar decided we needed to add a one game playoff to mix because after all, it seems like a good idea. Call us classless if you want, and yes we shouldn’t have been throwing things on the field, but I say its about time the fans showed up in support of their team.
Rick C
October 8th, 2012
7:02 pm
hunter55, no 19 years does not necessarily qualify a player for the HOF. But the numbers Chipper has put up do. And I stand by my comment. You’re an idiot if you can’t see that he deserves it. He’s one of the best switch hitters of all time.
Robert Morrissey
October 8th, 2012
8:17 pm
2 nd game NL playoff top of the 8th inning Washington has 2 on 2 outs an batter pops up to 3rd baseman who retreats into shallow left field. Was the infield fly ruled invoked by the 3rd base umpire?????
In Old Savannah Forum
October 9th, 2012
12:47 am
“2 on 2 outs”
IFR doesn’t apply when there are 2 outs.
Bobby's Cox
October 9th, 2012
8:02 am
Really wish someone in charge of the Braves (Wren, Fredi, JS) would lambast MLB for the horrendous call. That makes this even more frustrating and even harder to get over. The fans did the right thing.
The purpose of the rule is to prevent multiple outs from an intentional misplay of a pop up. There was no way multiple outs could have been recorded or at least one would have been recorded. This was the single most blatant misinterpretation of a rule in the history of the sport. Hands down.
Yes, we made three errors, but several posters here are right: cumulatively that did not decide the game. To have the bases loaded with one out, with a frenzied crowd and a batter at the plate that has done historically well with the bases loaded, who was fired up all game for not getting the start (and who appeared completely dialed in when he finally did get in the box)… to take that opportunity away on a joke of call in a new 1-game playoff format was a slap in the face to all Atlanta paying fans and this organization. MLB should be ashamed.
I still refuse to watch another MLB postseason game this year until someone in the ATL front office lambasts MLB, or MLB or Sam Holbrook does the right thing and admits they made a HUGE mistake.
bill
October 9th, 2012
9:07 am
I read that Chipper is the only player left from the 2002 team. Wren has been here with cousin Fredi for a couple of years but I have been a fan since the 1960’s and since 2002 I have suffered with the Braves excuses and alibis and with Bobby and Fredi’s poor mangement. The fans are the ones being punished over and over. Dear God will someone give the fans some relief. I am not looking forward to next year anymore thanI was at the end of this year.
JohnsonJ
October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
If I’m Kimbrel you don’t want to be Holbrook calling balls and strikes behind the plate next year…
Bubbatunde
October 9th, 2012
4:20 pm
Carroll ,, your comments are right on the money. When they weren’t snake bitten they were a team that got a case of the sh!ts come post season with opposing teams that had lesser talent and wanted it more. Bobby Cox is always lauded by his players and others as one of the great managers of all time…Bullsh!t. Just because you like him like a father doesn’t mean he got the job done. He won the regular season manager award every year .. but will always be known as a postseason LOSER!!! Think of it, we came that close to not winning any world series under the man. That is close to impossible to pull off. The Marlins go to the postseason only twice and win the World Series both times…twice!! If you gets some sabermatician or statistician to run what the odds of going to the postseason 15 times and winning only one world series I bet the number would be astounding. So, including 1969, 1982 and 2012 ,,that makes 18 times making it to the postseason and winning only 1 championship. Count on that 18-1 ratio to get larger.
Charlie Liebrandt
October 9th, 2012
4:53 pm
The Braves have even been noticed by the Wall Street Journal!
“Atlanta: The MLB Equivalent of France”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443615804578042660255887812.html
It is a shame. So many good things have happened since Cox left, but sadly this team is still paying the price paid just to give him one last shot at the ring.
Everytime I see the Rangers play, I wonder how many titles the Braves might have won with Harrison, Feliz, Andrus and Saltalamacchia on the roster. The delusion that because he went to Georgia Tech, Texiera would give the Braves a homeown discount.
There was never a doubt that Texiera/Boras were playing the Braves (and the Red Sox) to pump up his price for the Giambi-less Yankees.
The Braves lost a heartbreaker to the Cards last week, but as the Wall Street Journal painfully points out, there has been nothing but heartbreak at Turner Field. The one title this team has was won at Fulton County Stadium. It takes teams many years to purge a bad trade or bad signing, how many more years will this team have to pay for the error of feeding Cox’s ego?
Ric Reitz
October 10th, 2012
9:26 am
AN OPEN LETTER TO THE COMMISSIONER OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, BUD SELIG.
Dear Commissioner,
I am writing about the “Infield Fly Rule” scenario that occurred during the October 5 NL Wild Card Game between the Atlanta Braves and St. Louis Cardinals, as it should concern everyone who loves the game.
The final score aside, I am a fan, and I feel the game time interpretation (the judgment) not only ignored the “original intent of the rule”, it substantially interfered with the natural flow and integrity of the game.
We all know the “Infield Fly Rule” may only be invoked with runners on first and second base, or first, second and third base, with less than two outs. The rule originated because defensive players often decoyed offensive players when a routine fly ball occurred in fair territory within the infield, or reasonably close to it. Not able to stray far from base, it made the runners “dead ducks” with an intentional drop, which potentially resulted in double or even triple plays; clearly an unfair advantage for the defense. But, that is not what happened on October 5.
The ball struck by Andrelton Simmons in the fateful 8th Inning of the game was deep enough in the outfield so that even an intentional drop could not have resulted in a double play or worse. The most that could have happened was that a single runner could have been forced out, which would have had the same result as catching the ball. Since the runners were able to move liberally off base and down each base path with the ball in the air, as they would on most outfield fly balls, shallow or otherwise, play should have continued unimpeded, because there was no unusual advantage created for either team.
Even when invoked, the “Infield Fly Rule” is never a dead ball scenario. In this case, defenders were still moving into position, not camped out. Runners were able to advance at their own risk, which they did. It was also clear that the signal by the left field umpire did not stop or alter the play, as a whistle might in a football or basketball game. The pop-up was simply misplayed; therefore the game should have dictated itself, its greatest asset, with all requisite possibilities. All runners should have been safe, including the batter. Instead, the offensive team, the Braves, were penalized by the very rule put in place to protect it.
I understand that umpires do not intentionally make mistakes, that they are human, and that they work and train hard to get to a level that allows their participation in post-season play. Nobody expects perfection, especially when so many decisions have to be made in milliseconds by the human eye, but this was not one of those scenarios.
All six umpires had the chance to observe the play over several seconds, discuss the results and consequences, and then ask the most important question, “Did the judgment follow and support the original intent of the rule?” There is no embarrassment to “getting it right” after a judgment is made. Even the league failed to ask that question, and I like your point man, Joe Torre, a great deal.
This was a reversible event that would not have opened the door to a cascade of other challenges. Frankly, the league relies too heavily on overly protective protocol. Whether that is due to broadcast and financial expediency, tired league policy, or the fear of union reprisal, I can’t say. But something needs to be done.
I recognize the history and authority of your office, but pardon the pun, it “dropped the ball” here. More than ever, I submit that the “review process” of an umpire’s call, particularly when it involves the misinterpretation of a rule, needs to be changed.
The Braves were not the only ones who suffered on October 5, all of baseball suffered.
Respectfully yours,
Ric Reitz
74bravesjersey
October 21st, 2012
9:23 am
@Ric Reitz; Very well written, & very well thought of, The ruling itself is a contradictory in this case, I wish somehow we could make this open letter a petition that mlb needs to put into thought very carefully. Thank you sir for you’re careful insight. Seems like the talking heads in charge buried there heads in the sand that evening & looked the other way w/o carefully considering the ramifications. It will come back to bite ‘em, I’m still pissed due for the fact we we’re hosed.