3:05 pm October 2, 2012, by David O'Brien
Train Wreck Bystander
October 3rd, 20124:44 pm
Teddy Roosevelt: Benched by the front office to prevent possible injury
October 3rd, 20124:47 pm
Teddy Roosevelt: Benched by the front office to prevent possible injury
I wonder how they’ll count the races during playoff games? What if Teddy bags a couple? Will that streak be carried over to the next season?
These are important statistical questions that must be answered. Preferably, before the Commissioner’s Office gets involved.
October 3rd, 20124:48 pm
Mike Trout is not as valuable as Miguel Cabrera in terms of September and October.
The award is the 2012 AL MVP, not the September and October MVP (assuming that it’s even true that Cabrera was more valuable in September and October.)
In terms of leading his teams to the playoffs. How can you be the Most Valuable Player in the league, yet not have a shot at winning the World Series!?!
Because baseball is a team sport. No one player alone can possibly lead his team to the playoffs. Mike Trout did more than any other player to ensure the Angels made the playoffs. The rest of the team (and baseball’s playoff system) didn’t allow them to make the playoffs. The MVP is an individual award. If Mike Trout did more than any other player to get his team in to the playoffs, he’s most valuable.
Isn’t the goal to win games, make the playoffs, and to win the World Series? Mike Trout’s team didn’t do that, Cabrera’s did.
Again, Mike Trout did more than any player to help his team win games, make the playoffs and win the World Series. MVP is an individual award. He’s the MVP because he did all these things. It’s his teammates (and the fact that there are three divisions and two wild cards) that made the difference between the Tigers and Angels.
October 3rd, 20124:51 pm
Yep – they never take September performances into consideration for the MVP – just ask Chipper.
October 3rd, 20124:52 pm
Muffin, I swear, if you say one more word to Shaun that even includes the letters “M”, “V” or “P”, I’ll hunt you down and you’ll die slow.
October 3rd, 20124:53 pm
“MVP is an individual award.”
No it isn’t. The stated VALUE is to your team not to yourself. Gotta make the playoffs to win the award. That isn’t subjective. That’s completely objective and makes total sense. You aren’t as valuable to your team if you can’t get your team into the playoffs. That’s just straight objectivity at its finest.
“No one player alone can possibly lead his team to the playoffs.”
Of course they can’t, but their stated value is to their team and they are valuable because they are part of a team.
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
#redsox plan to fire Valentine soon after season ends. “no comment,” responds Ben Cherington.
October 3rd, 20124:55 pm
Shaun is like Norm from Cheers. But in a less than ideal way. Anyone get that?
October 3rd, 20124:56 pm
ncscoots – Don’t call me that and I’ll let it go, how about that?! Plus I think I’ve almost gotten through to him. He almost understands that you can’t be as valuable if you don’t make the playoffs. I’m pretty sure he is getting it…
October 3rd, 20124:58 pm
It is a crying shame that this pitching staff doesn’t get to appear in the postseason: http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/pitching/_/name/tb/tampa-bay-rays
Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson, Cobb
Rodney, McGee, Davis, Peralta, Howell, Badenhop, Ramos
Just nasty, nasty stuff.
Seems to me a GM would have a strong inclination, or incentive, to vote for his own player if it was a close race. If I’m the GM who signed the future MVP, that’s a feather in my professional cap.
Would not be wise to have baseball insiders voting on an award like that.
Shaun, I happen to value WAR, and I would probably vote for Trout, though not sure.
Frankly, though, it would be pretty boring if, two weeks ago every baseball stat site on the ‘net could calculate who the MVP would be… and that would be the case if a set statistical formula was used. It would completely deflate whatever buzz MLB gets out of the award.
I would guess that you’ve put more worry into this than the commissioner, or any of the players involved. It is what it is… a subjectively awarded trinket that helps to market the game.
October 3rd, 20124:59 pm
A’s are just CLUTCH!
Don’t call me that and I’ll let it go, how about that?!
It’s a deal.
(But it’s a good nickname; you should be pleased. Getting a nickname is a sign of acceptance, you know?)
October 3rd, 20125:00 pm
A’s mounting a comeback. 5-3 with runners on 1st and 2nd, nobody out.
Valentine may well be fired soon and maybe he’s the jerk he’s made out to be. One thing is certain, though – it wasn’t Bobby V who tanked that team this year.
wow Dempster can’t even make 5 innings
P-Town Brave ©
October 3rd, 20125:01 pm
That experiment didn’t last too long in Boston did it
Gotta say Bobby will be ok though….they will have to pay the rest of his remaining salary and he will head back to ESPN….
October 3rd, 20125:02 pm
Don’t tell the Rangers this game doesn’t mean anything….
They’re bringing in Derek Holland in the 4th in relief
“But it’s a good nickname; you should be pleased. Getting a nickname is a sign of acceptance, you know?”
Lol, I think I’ve been dubbed “fin” by numerous posters as well. That’s preferable and less condescending.
I really don’t understand why the playoff thing is soo hard to understand though. I mean it’s like in any performance-based job, getting all the way to the end and failing and the guy equally as good as you succeeds at the end, you can’t possibly be as valuable even if you may have been better during stretches.
Red Sox have to blame themselves for this disaster. Epstein included, for sure. The Adrian Gonzalez move made a lot of sense, and to an extent…..I see the positives in Carl Crawford’s game.
But what the hell were they thinking with John Lackey? His elbow was already barking and they still signed him to a five year deal when they didn’t even really need him.
October 3rd, 20125:03 pm
Lew, first of all it’s what should happen not what voters consider. Second, Chipper was good throughout that season, not just in September.
MFin04, so Mike Trout had no value to his team (I could put “value” in all caps, if it makes you feel better) because his team failed to make the playoffs? What does that mean, “value to your team not yourself”? Do you think Mike Trout was somehow selfish and not valuable to his team because his teammates weren’t good enough to allow the Angels to make the playoffs?
Would you really argue against some Braves player for MVP if that player were to have a historical, Babe Ruth type season and the Braves finished way down in the standings?
October 3rd, 20125:05 pm
“Gotta say Bobby will be ok though….they will have to pay the rest of his remaining salary and he will head back to ESPN”
Dear Lord no. I can’t stand him on ESPN. They’ll probably rehire the guy they shouldn’t have ever fired. It’s like musical chairs in Boston.
Bobby V might go down as a dumber manager than Jose Gullien and that is saying something.
Swinging at the first pitch is so dumb…
Crisp 2-run double. We’re all tied up at 5!!
October 3rd, 20125:06 pm
Shaun you’ll have to redirect any comments through my Handler/Agent Scoots. Thanks.
A’s tie it up on a clutch 2 out double by Crisp.
Lotta “want” in this team.
October 3rd, 20125:08 pm
Dempster is that #2 starter we need for the NLDS….
October 3rd, 20125:09 pm
And they are BACK even in Oakland….
This is such a great back and forth game and wow, these guys are young, but they arent being swallowed or have any fear of the moment….
Something maybe they should be showing the Braves on Thursday….
Maybe Oakland won’t win this game, but they certainly are fighting tooth and nail for it.
Sure wish we got Dempster. I have no idea why we even considered that deal. Frank Wren got lucky on that one.
October 3rd, 20125:11 pm
First, no way in hell Tito goes back there….I am thinking Farrell moves over from Toronto….
Second…Jose Guillen?! Do you mean Ozzie?! Also, to stick up for Ozzie…he can’t help that Hanley played like a spoiled child and only cared to play 1/2 the time and the only player who played up to his normal level was Jose Reyes….
“Maybe Oakland won’t win this game, but they certainly are fighting tooth and nail for it.”
It’s AL baseball at its finest. If you want the Braves to fight tooth and nail for the game Friday you better hope Medlen pitches a shutout and the Braves find a way to steal a run or play great ABC baseball. That’s how we fight tooth and nail.
Derek Holland needs a switch to the NL and also outside of the Texas ballpark. Not a good fit for that team.
October 3rd, 20125:13 pm
ok this really is the A’s year …..
lol Hamilton drops an easy pop fly!!!!!!!!!
2 runs score!
This A’s-Rangers game may be the best worst ugliest game I’ve seen in a really long time
Shaun – What SHOULD Happen? Maybe you need to become a Member of BBW and then you can vote however you like and be all condescending to your colleagues who also determine the outcome. In the meantime, you’re just being a consescending jackass to people on a blog who have no say in the outcome.
October 3rd, 20125:14 pm
They have announced game time for Braves/Cards Friday….it will be 5:07 ET first pitch
“Also, to stick up for Ozzie…he can’t help that Hanley played like a spoiled child and only cared to play 1/2 the time and the only player who played up to his normal level was Jose Reyes….”
“I love Fidel Castro. I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that (expletive) is still here.”
Who says that? Gosh, could be worse I guess, he could’ve gone with Hitler or Bid Laden.
MikeInFl, there is an easy way to solve the issue you bring up: Don’t allow GM’s to vote for their own players. You’d just have to make sure you have enough of a sample so that that doesn’t unfairly hurt players. Perhaps allow GM’s, assistant GM’s and other front office personnel to vote. Or anyone who works within the game as a talent evaluator, so that you have such a large sample that not being able to vote for your own player doesn’t unfairly tarnish the award.
And who said anything about purely going on a statistical formula for MVP? All the metrics are close in terms of NL MVP. I would not want a formula to decide things in the NL because it is just too close. In the AL however it is not that close. All the evidence is so much in favor of Trout that you would have to really come up with something off the wall to argue he’s not most deserving. And no one formula suggest that it’s Trout. It’s pretty much any reasonable way that is available to valuate players’ total contributions that suggest it’s Trout.
You don’t even need one formula. At the plate Trout and Cabrera were close. On the basepaths Trout has a big edge. On defense Trout has a big edge. It’s really pretty obvious, without any sort of sophisticated formula.
Brian from SC
October 3rd, 20125:15 pm
See ya (on TV) at 5:00 Friday. Be loud.
well … maybe the shadows won’t be too much of a problem
October 3rd, 20125:16 pm
We’re going to the playoffs on a somewhat high-note and…..we’re blog-fighting?
Your ugly is my awesome….I LOVE high scoring fests that keep teetering on who is gonna take control….
To me this is great….which is why the Braves offense bugs me so much….as I don’t think any of us want to see the .207 average Braves who cant capitalize on RISP on Friday….
I still don’t know what this means……
October 3rd, 20125:17 pm
“They have announced game time for Braves/Cards Friday….it will be 5:07 ET first pitch”
I’ll miss the whole game.
Wish it were 6 ET….
5p ET means I’ll be listening the last hour at work
Hamilton didn’t even look like he tried to catch that ball.
October 3rd, 20125:18 pm
What channel is the game on!?
“I still don’t know what this means……”
You may never will.
From Twitter: “@DKnobler: NL wild card in ATL: 5 p.m. ET, AL game 8:37 ET.”
October 3rd, 20125:19 pm
MLB Network channel.
oops……I meant MFin04.
October 3rd, 20125:20 pm
5:07… not too bad. We won’t have to wait until midnight to celebrate, we get to start about 8:30pm!
October 3rd, 20125:21 pm
Mixxo – The Braves game?
October 3rd, 20125:23 pm
Looks like the A’s have found something here maybe…
Scribner is dealing and if the A’s can tack on a couple more it’ll get real desperate for the Rangers….
That said, the Rangers are the best offense in baseball for a reason….
Neither does McCann or Hanson.
October 3rd, 20125:24 pm
No, the A’s/Rangers game. I think the braves game is going to be on TBS. Could be wrong though.
October 3rd, 20125:29 pm
This is from a Cards fan on Bradley’s blog…
October 3rd, 2012
I’m a Cards fan from St. Louis reading this article…..I just wanted to see what Braves fans were saying about the big game on friday night……..This is going to be a difficult game for my Redbirds to win…………I have watched them play almost every game this year….They have lost a ton of one run games and extra innings games as well..I still dont like our chances for this one game play in..
Both games are on TBS Friday
October 3rd, 20125:30 pm
I like the 5:07 start time. It will allow me to leave early enough to miss the rush hour traffic. Can’t wait for Friday to get here.
Good game today. Sheets seemed frustrated that he wasn’t given an opportunity to pitch out of the pen down the stretch. Based on today’s performance, that’s too bad. He could have helped the team. I’d rather see him on the post-season roster than Hanson.
October 3rd, 20125:31 pm
Quick, who has the Braves 2012 record in Day Games?
I know that we are 26 games over .500 against RHP while the Cards are 1 game under .500 against RHP….
Also the Braves are 4 games over .500 against +.500 teams while the Cards are 2 games under .500…
AND in close games, the Braves are 12 games over .500 and the Cards 6 games under….
October 3rd, 20125:32 pm
Bravos season-finale quotage
October 3rd, 20125:33 pm
I don’t think you have to worry about Hanson being on ANY postseason roster….short of Minor, Maholm, and Huddy all being involved in the same bus crash…..
First pitch, 5:07 p.m. Friday
P-Town Brave- One game, anything can happen and I expect it will happen.
Wow. The A’s on the verge of a division title a season after losing 88 games.
That’s weird though because the Rangers are better than them.
I didn’t know you were allowed to win the division if you weren’t the best team.
I thought you were just supposed to tip your cap.
October 3rd, 20125:34 pm
I’m a Cards fan from St. Louis reading this article…..I just wanted to see what Braves fans were saying about the big game on friday night
Oh my…Commenters on Bradley’s Blog are representing the thoughts of Braves fans. We.Are.Doomed.
October 3rd, 20125:35 pm
Agree on that fans assessment….IF its a close game, it definitely tips towards the Braves side…especially if the Braves are leading after 6….
The key is to keep their big 4 in tact and keep them off the board early….IF Meds can keep them off the board through the first 3-4 innings, I like our chances even better…..
Brave New World
October 3rd, 20125:36 pm
Regarding 5:29 post: “Dr. Feelgood,” finally a Cardinals fan that makes sense. Hope you’re paying attention, JJ.
October 3rd, 20125:38 pm
The A’s play the Rangers 18 times.
The O’s play the Yankees 18 times.
They each have a chance, after 161, to win their divisions against the two best teams in baseball over the last three years.
What excuse do the Braves have?
I’m not going to disparage winning 94 games but if you’re satisfied with being fourth best, either as a fan or as a team, you’re not going to win anything.
October 3rd, 20125:41 pm
Mitchell: 94 wins may not be anything, but it sure is something. GO BRAVES!
“I’m not going to disparage winning 94 games but if you’re satisfied with being fourth best, either as a fan or as a team, you’re not going to win anything.”
October 3rd, 20125:42 pm
P-Town, I certaily hope not.
October 3rd, 20125:43 pm
Looks like the Rangers might be “Dempster Diving” today – sure glad we didn’t trade for that head case flash-in-the-pan.
October 3rd, 20125:44 pm
Mitchell, the Braves are fourth-best? How did you come up with that?
October 3rd, 20125:45 pm
I like our chances Friday. Hate the one game thing, but think we have the better team. Plus, I believe in Meds.
October 3rd, 20125:48 pm
… Plus, we owe it to the Cardinals to kick their stinking butts after what happened last season.
October 3rd, 20125:51 pm
Mitchell – always trying to find the black lining in a silver cloud.
October 3rd, 20125:52 pm
“we owe it to the Cardinals to kick their stinking butts after what happened last season.”
Agreed. With that and Wainwright’s comments about not celebrating the Braves should have ample motivation for the game. We’ll see if that can translate into positive performance on Friday.
October 3rd, 20125:59 pm
Can I say we need to do it for ME….?!
Selfishly I ask they pound the Cardinals simply because I am sick to death of all the Cardinals fans talking sh*t to me about how great their team is and all it mattered was for them to get in because theyre gonna win it all again….
Such a group of cocky *ssholes!
I’m just so beyond SICK OF IT!
Ric Flair to Right
October 3rd, 20126:08 pm
Braves 2nd half recored
49-29 .628 clip, that aint bad!
October 3rd, 20126:12 pm
“First pitch, 5:07″
so no ESPN thing, the first pitch will be thrown at 5:07 and not like …. 20 min later or something?
October 3rd, 20126:13 pm
Pluck the Cardinals! GO BRAVES!
October 3rd, 20126:15 pm
well we might not like the new playoff scenario this year,
but it did what mlb wanted it too.
kept seats full in a lot of citys
October 3rd, 20126:18 pm
What a heart break it would be to out play the cards by 7 games to win the wildcard only to lose after last years collapse. Braves were 20-8 this sept. way better than last year. This one game Wild Card sucks because its ONE game. A team can have a true number 1 and 4 x 5 hole staters and win then get socks blown off in Division Round. I just hope Meds can man up for this game, coming back from TJ surgery and pitching these innings is bound to take its toll.
October 3rd, 20126:22 pm
Anyone have comparisons between the Braves’ hitting/pitching in September 2011 vs September 2012?
Seems like the offense collapsed both times, only this time we got one of the best months worth of pitching that the franchise has seen in decades, where last year we had Lowe.
October 3rd, 20126:29 pm
I have to say, I tip my cap to Fredi for the season.
I’ve never really had much of a problem with him, especially since if I had the chance to personally kick Bobby Cox out the door in 2009, if not far before then, I would have done a Carl Lewis long jump to it.
94 is a lot more than many recent World Series champion teams.
He’s probably not going to win Manager of the Year any time soon, or any other award for that matter, but give him credit. The Marlins with a miniscule payroll outperformed the Braves in both 2008 and 2009.
I for one am not missing Bobby Cox.
It’s not like the Braves are going to have a 20 game improvement in wins from 89 but the fact remains this team does not expect enough of itself, they don’t take the field with expecting to win.
You see it every night.
If they don’t pitch, they don’t win.
The offense deserves the blame once again for failing to reward the efforts of the starting pitchers and bullpen.
Brian McCann and Dan Uggla’s miserable performances cost us the division.
One guy on offense with a season anywhere near the likes of Ryan Braun or even Adam LaRoche could have made the difference.
When all else fails, the media just chooses to blame the fans. By and large don’t care what they Braves do.
Before one game of the NFL season had even been played it was made clear that if the Falcons don’t get to the playoffs and win, “Heads will roll!”
But all I’ve heard regarding the Braves losing the division is, “The Nationals are better.”
Is that going to fly if the Falcons lose to a “better team” in the first round of the playoffs.
Mark Bradley asks “Is just getting to the playoffs enough for the Braves?”
Doesn’t even an opinion about it.
Meanwhile, he’s outlining his list of expectations for the Falcons.
They don’t care. Most fans don’t either.
As long as that continues nothing will change. Wash ups like Lyle Overbay and Jeff Baker are just going to keep being shipped and have no worries about being benched for making outs.
If the Braves win on Friday, it will be like winning a playoff series. It might even help to spur them on against the Nationals.
It’s still not a division title. It’s not a pennant. But it’s something.
But we know what they do in big games. We know the players themselves think the game is “stupid.”
Adam Wainwright of the Cardinals might has well have personally guaranteed a win for his team.
Add it all up, the Braves probably aren’t going to win.
If they don’t, what will they have accomplished?
Rangers are going to need a huge comeback in the 9th
October 3rd, 20126:33 pm
only scouts should be allowed to vote.
October 3rd, 20126:34 pm
LIKE this Thanks Chipper page!!!!
October 3rd, 20126:35 pm
October 3rd, 2012
Mitchell, the Braves are fourth-best? How did you come up with that?
We have the fourth best record in the National League.
Where is the confusion?
Here Comes Honey Boo Boo
October 3rd, 20126:36 pm
close to seeing 1 game playoff loser go home between the yankees vs rangers, or orioles vs rangers…..
If they lose and you jump off a bridge… lots.
October 3rd, 20126:37 pm
I’m not going to disparage winning 94 games but if you’re satisfied with being fourth best, either as a fan or as a team, you’re not going to win anything….Mitchell
damn are you dumb. what in God’s Name does our satisfaction have to do with what the team does?
October 3rd, 20126:40 pm
I don’t know the A’s fans seem pretty satisfied with their team … maybe that’s why that team is 3 outs from winning the division
Oh yes bud selig and the league of BASEBALL is totally off on this new POSTSEASON format, especially when should have turned the LDS from a best-of-5 to a best-of 7 or they should have kept the previous POSTSEASON format with just 1 WILDCARD PLAYOFF team.Speaking of the BRAVES getting into OCTOBER as usual, let’s get TOTALLY NASTY IN OCTOBER by having TOTALLY DETERMINED WILL POWER to WIN OCTOBER EVERY YEAR starting in 2012 and TOTALLY beyond instead of heartbreaking OCTOBER defeats.Start loving WORLD SERIES TITLES instead of NL East titles starting in 2012 and TOTALLY BEYOND if you’re the BRAVES. GO BRAVESNATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 3rd, 20126:41 pm
and kaboom go the Rangers.
A’s are pouring it on now. Amazing.
12-5, bottom of the 8th
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