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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,250 comments Add your comment
abeeeewright
October 2nd, 2012
2:19 pm
“The postseason is entirely for fun (and money). “
And the regular season isn’t?????
Baseball is not a gigantic statistics experiment. It is a business, based on a game, to entertain.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:19 pm
Sean Young = living dangerously. Some guys like that….
ncscoots
October 2nd, 2012
2:20 pm
I can compartmentalize.
Good thinking, LOL.
Plus, it’s hard to hide knives and guns and such, in the buff.
abeeeewright
October 2nd, 2012
2:21 pm
“may be my memory is fading, guess have to watch stripes once again”
If you watch the TV version, you’re missing some footage. Might not be your memory after all.
Murph
October 2nd, 2012
2:23 pm
nolie, come up with some CF option that will get Murph off Angel Pagan. Please.
I don’t get your dislike of Pagan. He’s a good hitter, can swipe some bases, and plays average defense… and he’s going to be sooooo much cheaper than Bourn.
It doesn’t matter all that much that he’s 30 or 31… it’s not like the team is going to sign him to an 8 year deal. Give him 3 years with an option, use the money saved on another SP or some bench bats, and the team is better off than they would be giving Bourn $15mil + per season.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:25 pm
Down Periscope sukked. Even Big Jake, a career Navy/Seal hated it
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:25 pm
Anyone read into anything into Jason’s .750 at home this year? Similar walk rate away – but less power at home with what seems to be less luck as well.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:27 pm
tougher park that most
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:28 pm
I’d rather not go after any free agent this offseason. I know, that means we need to trade prospects, but I’d rather go that route. I’m getting less impressed with BJ Upton as well, now that the Rays will be making the qualifying offer and it’s going to cost the Braves a first round pick. Stay away from him, Swisher and re-signing Bourn. Use Hanson, Delgado, Ahmed, etc. others to fill needs.
That probably means no starter – but I’m getting the feeling that isn’t happening anyway.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
2:29 pm
If Pagan only plays average defense, try to get Jay instead. He’s younger, with room to develop. .300 hitter already.
RC
October 2nd, 2012
2:30 pm
I’d rather not go after any free agent this offseason. I know, that means we need to trade prospects, but I’d rather go that route. I’m getting less impressed with BJ Upton as well, now that the Rays will be making the qualifying offer and it’s going to cost the Braves a first round pick. Stay away from him, Swisher and re-signing Bourn. Use Hanson, Delgado, Ahmed, etc. others to fill needs.
So is your CF target if you are not going into FA market? Chris Young? I can’t think of any others that would be available.
phil
October 2nd, 2012
2:30 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
2:09 pm
David O’Brien @ajcbraves
#Braves have hit .222 in the past 32 games, 20-12 with 2.67 ERA. Scored 2 or fewer runs in 16 of those 32 games.
And Prado hit .324 for the month, Uggla’s .291. The other guys really struggled, esp. at catcher.
****************
Who cares. Hitting isn’t a very big deal with us and hasn’t been in years.
And thanks, Nolie.
Murph
October 2nd, 2012
2:31 pm
Why would St Louis want to get rid of Jay? I don’t know that it makes much sense for them to trade him.
RC
October 2nd, 2012
2:33 pm
If Pagan only plays average defense, try to get Jay instead. He’s younger, with room to develop. .300 hitter already.
Jay is not as good a hitter as Pagan, and I actually am not sure he’s as good defensively either.
Shaun
October 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
Pagan has the potential to be an above-average all-around centerfielder for at least a couple more seasons. He’s a solid option to replace Bourn, if the Braves lose Bourn.
How good an option he is depends on what they do in left/third. If they can’t get a player who is clearly above-average at one of those spots, they may need to take a chance on someone better than Pagan, at least a player with more upside than Pagan.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
They need a lefty reliever… dangle EOF or Venters along with Hanson and/or a prospect, that might entice them. I believe they have a CF (Taveras?) in the minors who may be ready next year.
cricket
October 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
“The postseason is entirely for fun (and money). “
And the regular season isn’t?????
only way to select best regular season team is to have all teams play all other teams exactly at the same time so that variables like players missing time due to injury, uggla getting hot for a fortnight etc. do not affect the outcomes of the games.
since we don’t have parallel worlds available to make it possible, define a model that takes into account all activities on the field and assigns some sort of points to each team after each game. ancient dumb stats like runs and wins should be banished as they don’t really reflect which team actually played better over the course of 9 innings and may be got burned by a single play resulting in a “conventional” loss (or win for opponent).
the day this happens, this beautiful game will finally become completely fair, team and player evaluation will be logical and fair and i will be free to concentrate on other interests during the summer.
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:36 pm
So is your CF target if you are not going into FA market? Chris Young? I can’t think of any others that would be available.
Jon Jay, Denard Span, Dexter Fowler, Colby Rasmus, etc. off the top of my head. I’d want to stay away from any overpriced free agents for CF that also require the loss of a first round draft selection.
Under Frank Wren, the Braves have given up the 2008 1st rounder(Tom Glavine), 2009 2nd rounder(Derek Lowe), 2010 1st rounder(Billy Wagner). With the two first round selections he had, he selected Mike Minor(#7 overall) and Sean Gilmartin(#28 overall). Just be nice to have two Top 40 draft selections and spend them both on position players as the Braves have one of the worst crops in the entire minors.
Patrick
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
Chipper is going to have more Third Bases than he’s going to know what to do with.
Question for anyone that knows the answer.
What even did the Pirates give him?
In the picture on ajc.com it looks like he’s carrying a lottery check
cricket
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
is ESPN / MLB going to track all his ABs as Dunn comes close to break the K record?
Shaun
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
Jay is not worth what the Braves would likely have to give up to get him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
Not so against Bourjos either…. he did hit when he started, maybe he can do the same again. But he plays a good CF, which we do need. He may hit .230, but it’s not that big a deal. Bourn just did that for the 2nd half of the season. Bat him 8th.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
I’ve never had a feeling that there would be a starter, but who knows what Smilin’ Frank will find?
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm
Why would St Louis want to get rid of Jay? I don’t know that it makes much sense for them to trade him.
Remember the name Oscar Taveras. Top 10 prospect overall in baseball – can probably handle CF close to as well as Jon Jay(he’s an okay defender out there).
PDOG
October 2nd, 2012
2:42 pm
Centerfielders I would consider if the Braves don’t resign Bourne. 1) Cain KC 2) Ellsbury Boston 3) Fowler Col 5) Pagan SF. The trade bait is Hanson, Terd and Malhom depending which player they go after. Short of these 5 I would give Cunningham a shot in spring training. Another possibility would be Tori Hunter of the A’s if the Braves think he has 1 more yer left in him. He also could be signed for 1 year to play left.
RC
October 2nd, 2012
2:42 pm
Jon Jay, Denard Span, Dexter Fowler, Colby Rasmus, etc. off the top of my head. I’d want to stay away from any overpriced free agents for CF that also require the loss of a first round draft selection.
Forgot about Span and Fowler, and actually thought Jay’s numbers were much worse than the actually are (no power, but he’s got a nearly .400 OBP…didn’t realize that earlier). Not sure how comfortable I’d be with Rasmus, mainly because he’s a high-K lefty, but I’ll admit I haven’t looked at his stats in some time. Guess he could be a fit as well.
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:42 pm
I’m not compltely against Pagan, but he’s likely going to get a three year deal out there in the range of 21-27 million overall. I’m not going to pay him that. No way.
RC
October 2nd, 2012
2:44 pm
Remember the name Oscar Taveras. Top 10 prospect overall in baseball – can probably handle CF close to as well as Jon Jay(he’s an okay defender out there).
While I know he’s playing CF right now, I thought he profiled as more of a RF type (or maybe I’m just stuck on the Vlad comparisons)
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:44 pm
I think I’d go 3/21 on Pagan
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
The great fit, awesome trade needs to be the RH LF. CF can be a nice player acquisition. Doesn’t have to be a star in any way. Could be more if they can’t get what they want in LF.
Brian from SC
October 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
My take on center field:
I hope Bourn gets on base and sparks the offense on Friday.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
Pirates gave him a check for charity which is likely what you saw. I think they also gave him yet another base
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm
Jay, Bourjos, Pagan, Fowler, Span. In that order.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
2:50 pm
I do not want to watch Bourjos hit 210 for years at the Ted
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Baseball Ammerica – Assistant editor Conor Glassey sorted the players in our ongoing minor league Top 20 Prospects series by their current organization. There were 289 unique players (31 guys appeared on multiple lists), and here’s how they break down by team:
14 Cardinals, Mariners, Padres, Pirates, Red Sox
13 Blue Jays, Cubs, Rangers, Rays
12 Mets, Rockies, Royals
11 Braves, Reds
10 Astros, Diamondbacks
9 Athletics, Phillies
8 Indians, Marlins, Tigers
7 Twins
6 White Sox
5 Angels, Brewers, Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, Yankees
4 Orioles
That chart correlates well with organization depth in most cases, though bear in mind that no distinction is draw between prospects in Triple-A vs. Rookie ball. I haven’t tried to think through updated farm-system rankings—that’s a project for the 2013 Prospect Handbook in December—but off the top of my head, the Rangers and Blue Jays would top that list.
Sounds about right. Braves will be in the #18-14 range in organization rankings if they came out today – probably be worse when we make some moves this winter.
Braves have already had LHP Luis Merejo, SS Jose Peraza, RHP Mauricio Cabrera and RHP Luke Sims appear on the list. I’d bet Alex Wood, Ed Salcedo, Nick Ahmed, J.R. Graham, Christian Bethancourt, Sean Gilmartin and Julio Teheran round out the 11 players.
UKUGA
October 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Shaun,
The question becomes, why is one team in a stronger divsion? Do the teams in that division have better resources/payroll? Do the teams in that division play in more attractive media markets? Is it because teams in that division play fewer games outside of their home time zone?
I DO NOT DISAGREE with you that it would make more sense to seed the teams based upon wins and losses and give greater rewards to those teams with the best records.
But even in doing that, we fail to give full consideration to all the elements that go into what makes one team better than another, what leads to a team having a better won-loss record than someone else.
You cry about team’s petitioning to play in a weaker divison so they’ll have a better chance. Well, while the Yankees are petitioning to play in a weaker division, perhaps they should offer to give up their major media market, large cable TV contract, fan base, nostalgia, and vast array of other resources.
Something tells me that the Yankees are pretty satisfied with the gold mine they are sitting on.
Now, does that mean I think that we should punish them and make their run to the WS tougher because their division happened to be tougher than the one that contained Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago, and Kansas City? No, not on those merits alone. I’m not a socialist.
But that said, Major League Baseball is not a free market. It isn’t. There are salary caps placed on young players with limited service time, there are revenue sharing arrangements, there are rules that allow certain players to veto trades, and even with all these restrtictions, teams are still allowed to go out and generate absolutely as much revenue as possible, while being allowed to spend as much as they want.
The Yankees can generate more revenue than anyone else, but can they do this outside the context of MLB?
Can they open their own league and just play the Washington Generals, and still have a Billion dollar enterprise?
I don’t think they can.
The Yankees want this. They want the large market, the revenue, the stadium, the star players, the fans, the hatred and the target on their chest.
And you know what allows them to have all this? You and I do. The small markets. The fans who pack the stadiums in Detroit and Oakland. Those who support the advertisers who sponsor Major League Baseball.
Those who purchase MLB extra innings.
Plus, as fans, we all benefit from this. Because MLB has designed a system which gives teams from coast to coast some semblance that they have a shot at something, it keeps fans in those markets interested. It drives attendance, ratings, and revenue. It allows for huge TV contracts that allow me to sit down and watch four significant games last night, just on my “basic” cable package (Braves on Fox South, Yankees on MLB Network, Nats on MASN 1 and Orioles on MASN 2).
As fans, we love this. We love the access. We love being able to watch our teams no matter where we are and not having to root for them through a box score.
The trade off? An unbalanced schedule. A less than sensible play-off format that fails to fully reward the best teams.
Is it fair? Not on the surface. But who is actually complaining? The rich owners of the Yankees and Red Sox who are getting richer off the larger TV deals?
Sure, some may complain publicly about having to play a play-in game, just like they’ll complain about having to let their pitchers hit and run the bases in NL parks. But are they really angry? Are they really so mad that they are going to waste their time crying on a blog about the same thing for 6 entire months the way you have?
Or, are they going to laugh all the way to the bank depositing the revenue checks that you and I are making bigger and bigger each year.
You got a real problem with the system? Then boycott.
Just like I did with the NBA last year after David Stern nixed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers. It was unjust and accordingly, I did not attend an NBA game (for the first time since the 1990s), nor did I purchase the NBA League Pass (I’ve had it most years since 1995).
I did my part. Now, I’m past it.
But this system with MLB. Get over it. It’s fun. Enjoy the games. Plus, don’t think of it as the end result of years of tinkering. This is just a means to an end. Expect to see a 6th play-off team in each league soon, and you’ll probably get something much closer to what you are wanting and getting a greater advantage for the “best teams”.
But, if you get your kicks out of making the same arguments to the EXACT SAME GROUP OF PEOPE EVERY SINGLE DAY then hey, kick away.
While you’re at it, why don’t you remind us again about how and why Derek Lowe’s contract is just fine, thanks!
cricket
October 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
Chipper is going to have more Third Bases than he’s going to know what to do with.
can he use some of them as 1B and 2B?
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
Jay, Bourjos, Pagan, Fowler, Span. In that order.
If the price in trade isn’t crazy, I could see Fowler here. Colorado needs to value him properlu though. Not a Top 10 offensive player in the league and not a great defensive CF. So they need to not try and ask for too, too much. I like Span too. Would love to get both him and Willingham in a package deal.
Shaun
October 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
cricket, no one is asking for heavenly perfection, complete and absolute fairness or something. We are just asking for a realistic set-up that does better. Again, your argument is like so many others: Because perfection is impossible, MLB shouldn’t bother trying to do better.
If you think I’m arguing that MLB must achieve perfection, you aren’t paying attention to my arguments.
It’s pretty simple. Seed teams purely on regular season record. Qualifiers with the worst two records play in the play-in game.
Or down the road maybe even do away with divisions, go with a balanced schedule, give the two teams with the best record in each league a bye in the first round, let four more playoff teams play three-game series with no off days.
There are all kinds of possibilities better than letting weak division winners get a pass in the play-in round while superior teams fighting for position get punished simply because they don’t have the fortune of playing in a weak division.
usnavyvolfaninva
October 2nd, 2012
2:58 pm
Looks like Miguel Cabrera is indeed going to win the Triple Crown in the AL
TheOnlyBravesFan
October 2nd, 2012
3:03 pm
Jay, Bourjos, Pagan, Fowler, Span. In that order.
Forgot about Gentry…. put him somewhere between Pagan and Span. Don’t think TEX will let him go since Hamilton might be gone, but it is an idea.
nolie
October 2nd, 2012
3:03 pm
cool for Miggy. hope he gets more out of it that Ted Williams did a coupla times
Shaun
October 2nd, 2012
3:07 pm
UKUGA, that’s a nice post about the Yankees, but what about teams like the Rays and the A’s? The Rays are better in 2012 than the Tigers. If the Rays had been in the AL Central. I don’t think the Rays are sitting on a gold mine. Same with the A’s. There is a good chance the A’s will have to play in the one-game playoff though they are better than the Tigers. The A’s don’t need to be knocked down a peg or two in the playoffs because they have financial advantages.
The Tigers don’t need to be over-rewarded in the playoffs because the A’s and Rays have resource advantages over the Tigers. That’s the problem with that argument.
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
3:09 pm
Forgot about Gentry….
There is probably another player like Gentry that none of us are thinking of – and that’s probably who it’s going to end up being.
David O'Brien
October 2nd, 2012
3:11 pm
NEW BLOGGAGE for the denizens
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/10/02/braves-shift-focus-to-fridays-wild-card-game/
cricket
October 2nd, 2012
3:15 pm
Again, your argument is like so many others: Because perfection is impossible, MLB shouldn’t bother trying to do better.
no, my comment has absolutely nothing to do with it. look at it again. it is entirely in response to your following idiotic statement that seems to discount the concept of postseason-
The postseason is entirely for fun (and money)
i am pretty sure you understand that my comment had nothing to do with “Because perfection is impossible, MLB shouldn’t bother trying to do better” nonsense. but based on my observation of your behavior here from the beginning, you will never admit to even simple misunderstanding a comment, as IMO you do not have a single honest bone in you, at least when you are posting here. you will off course prefer to post the same drivel one millionth time again, though it has nothing to do with my comment.
ok, time for shower. be back on friday.
Efrim
October 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
Tonight’s lineup at PIT (7:05, SPSO/680AM/BRN): Bourn 8 Pastornicky 4 Simmons 6 Overbay 3 Ross 2 Francisco 5 Baker 9 Constanza 7 Hanson 1
Hope they play all of the regs tomorrow…..
UKUGA
October 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
Shaun,
As usual, you missed a big part of the point.
Congrats, again.
It’s about the revenue. And these teams want it.
The Rays actually begged to be in the AL East. They wanted to be in the AL East because they wanted the 18 home games against New York and Boston. They wanted the money.
This is a kids game played by men with billionaire and mega-millionaire owners. They are all getting rich.
You are the one who wants this to be fair. The owners are happy getting rich.
Don’t like it? Quit putting your money into it.
abeeeewright
October 2nd, 2012
3:25 pm
ncscoots – “it’s hard to hide knives and guns and such, in the buff.”
“I like a girl in a bikini: no concealed weapons.” -Francisco Scaramanga
Brian from SC
October 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Bourn and Simmons in there. All the rest is B-team.