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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
767 comments Add your comment
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
VJ— USA 1 up, right? How are the other matches faring?
Hugo Z Hackenbush
September 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
I haven’t given this much thought either, but at first blush, I think that the only thing that matters about a closer is how many saves earned vs. saves blown he has. Don’t care much about walks, strikeouts, how hard he throws, how fierce he looks, etc.
Brian from SC
September 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
I haven’t given this much thought either, but at first blush, I think that the only thing that matters about a closer is how many saves earned vs. saves blown he has. Don’t care much about walks, strikeouts, how hard he throws, how fierce he looks, etc.
And I would say, among those things (except the fierce look), the # of saves is the least important for knowing how good a pitcher he is.
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
Felix – one finishing right now on 18, all square – McDowell has a putt to win – other two are split…
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
McDowell/Rory beat Snedeker/Furyk after blowing 3 hole lead…
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
Keep us posted if you don’t mind…….dang work.Thanks.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
September 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
Didn’t say “number of saves”
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
kinda like you kept us posted in Spring Training. Appreciate that, by the way.
TennesseePaul
September 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
the # of saves is the least important
That, to me, needs more context. The ratio of saves to blown saves is a rather simple number to look at to tell you how effective he has been. Of course, if it’s a bad ratio, he won’t have many saves as the team will pull him from the job. It’s hard to keep the job with a 2/3 S/BS ratio.
UKUGA
September 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
St. Louis should not celebrate merely appearing in the game next Friday. They are, after-all, the defending World Champs.
cricket
September 28th, 2012
12:33 pm
if i was a manager and had a “good” pitcher who is a designated closer with excellent “those things”, he would become a setup man, if someone else could close out games. then i would be ripped as a old-school dum**ss all over the net but the team would close out more wins.
MFin04
September 28th, 2012
12:34 pm
Most guys put in the 9th inning role would have a great save % just because it isn’t all that difficult to save a game. But saving games in dominant fashion, that’s what makes you elite. When guys aren’t reaching base and aren’t even making contact with the ball or putting it in play, that’s elite stuff. Tough to give up runs when the ball doesn’t leave the pitchers or catchers glove.
RC
September 28th, 2012
12:34 pm
That, to me, needs more context. The ratio of saves to blown saves is a rather simple number to look at to tell you how effective he has been.
Even saves to blown saves needs context. For a player like O’Flaherty, that number is going to be terrible, because he has many opportunities to blow saves, and almost no opportunities to earn saves.
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
12:34 pm
I’d be happy to – conflicted feelings today, since my afternoon work schedule lets me watch this, but will have me confined to the computer video for the game tonight…
Dufner/Zach Johnson win 3 and 2 over Westwood/Molinari – 2-1 US, but Euros lead 4th match…
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
12:37 pm
Tiger just hit an awful shot, way left, hit the top of a tree and bounced out in front of the green…
Shaun
September 28th, 2012
12:37 pm
I haven’t given this much thought either, but at first blush, I think that the only thing that matters about a closer is how many saves earned vs. saves blown he has. Don’t care much about walks, strikeouts, how hard he throws, how fierce he looks, etc.
Matters to what? Joe Borowski, in 2007, led the league in saves with an ERA of 5.07. I think there are quite a few major league pitchers who could do an adequate job of getting three outs before the opposing team scores 1-3 runs. That’s why we need to go beyond just saves in evaluating closers and relievers in general.
Mixxo
September 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
“Tiger just hit an awful shot, way left, hit the top of a tree and bounced out in front of the green…”
Haha!!
Love it!
Hugo Z Hackenbush
September 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
We seem to be wandering off on a tangent. No one has ever proposed Joe Borowski as a Cy Young Candidate.
Mixxo
September 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
Go Europe !!!
David O'Brien
September 28th, 2012
12:41 pm
Martin Prado has hit .305 with 23 extra-base hits, 27 RBIs, a .356 OBP and .812 OPS in his past 59 games, including .403 (25-for-62) with a .448 OBP and .980 OPS in his past 16 games.
Brave New World
September 28th, 2012
12:43 pm
Although, as a Braves fan, I want a World Series title in 2012, I am still very happy with how this season has gone. Also, with the exception of a few years, we have been one of the “teams to beat” for over 20 years – now, that’s a winning organization! GO BRAVES!
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
12:43 pm
split at the very worst. I’ll take it.Fortunate enough to live in Atlanta, so will see the ceremonies.
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
course management..lol
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
Prado is a machine. Lock him up this winter. 4 or 5 years, 8-9 mil a yr
Shaun
September 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
Check out Chad Durbin’s game logs. In plenty of his one-inning outings, he’s failed to give up a run. If the Braves or any other team with around 90 or more wins would have inserted Durbin in to their closer role, there’s a good chance he would be among the league leaders in saves. In fact, I’m not so sure he even would have to close for a good team. If he just holds on to the job, a pitcher is likely to be among the league leaders.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
Talking about RBIs, saves, and Cy Youngs…. anyone want to tackle the 2015 rotation?
RC
September 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
Talking about RBIs, saves, and Cy Youngs…. anyone want to tackle the 2015 rotation?
Hmm….3 years down the road. Yeah, let’s have at it.
1. Beachy
2. Medlen
3. Teheran
4. Minor
5. Delgado
Darkhorse: Sean Gilmartin
MiaBchBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
I really did not see the sense of having Venters pitch two frames last night, what with the load of arms in the bullpen. Gotta say that was a great virtue Cox possessed; one-and-done was also a huge part of The Run. While Fredi has improved his bullpen management…
Shaun
September 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
We seem to be wandering off on a tangent. No one has ever proposed Joe Borowski as a Cy Young Candidate.
No. But someone said all that matters for a closer is saves-to-blown saves. I’m just asking, matters to what?
I’m actually sort of in agreement that managers should just stick someone in the closers role that will appease everyone on the outside and that can do the job adequately, not his best reliever, so that he can be much more flexible in using his best reliever.
MiaBchBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
RC, that is one helluva rotation. Here’s to their health and continued development!
RC
September 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
RC, that is one helluva rotation. Here’s to their health and continued development!
If I had to guess how accurate that was, I’d say I’d expect between 3-4 of those 6 to actually be in the rotation, supplemented by free agents and trades. If you wanted me to tell you WHICH 3 or 4 would be there, I’ve got no freakin’ clue.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
I didn’t mind…. he saved a pitcher, which he can use tonight. Maybe Durbin can go 2 or even 3 innings because he didn’t have to pitch yesterday. Everyone but Venters should be available.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
September 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
Shaun, I’m saying that when somebody proposes a closer as a Cy Young candidate, he should at least be dominating his peers in the saves to saves blown ratio, and Kimbrel isn’t. All other criteria are secondary, because the point of the closer role is to finish games successfully.
MiaBchBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
Back in April, I for one did not expect the Braves to have a winning record, what with the starting pitching in shambles at the time and the lineup being virtually the same one that limped down the stretch last year. If the Braves win the play-in game, I would consider this season a huge succes, all things considered.
I did call the gNats to win the division. However, I would LOVE to be wrong again during the next six games.
GO CARDINALS!!! SWEEP THE Gnats!!!
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Nice putt by Poulter on 16 to halve hole, they lead Tiger/Stricker by 2 with 2 holes to play…
Mixxo
September 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Now we’re talking about the rotation in 2015 and beyond……
lol
Later y’all!
MiaBchBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
IMO the last three outs of a close game are the hardest outs to get. That’s why closers in rote roles exist. As for being Cy Young candidates? They would have to be John Smoltz 50-plus saves dominant, with lotsa K’s, to get a nod.
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
1:08 pm
never a big Poulter fan… or Sergio either, for that matter.
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
have the afternoon matches started yet?
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
Felix – just did (nice drive for Bubba) – Tiger loses, so 2-2 after the morning…
Shaun
September 28th, 2012
1:19 pm
IMO the last three outs of a close game are the hardest outs to get.
I’m honestly not trying to pick on you, but why is that your opinion? Because it seems to me that if a teams best three hitters are up in the 7th inning of a close game, those are likely tougher outs to get than what could happen in the last inning. It seems the toughest outs to get are when games are most on the line and when the best hitters on the opposing team are up. Those things seem like much bigger factors than whether it’s the last inning. Sometimes it may be the last inning. Sometimes it may be sooner.
Bat Masterson
September 28th, 2012
1:23 pm
I enjoyed the overnights, guys.
Shultz has a good column up. But the commentary, well I guess one can’t be honest unless one is perfect, in some folks eyes.
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
1:23 pm
Webb Simpson birdies the first, so he and Bubba lead
Graeme/Rory vs Phil/Keegan just starting…
The Blogger Formerly Known as Billy
September 28th, 2012
1:23 pm
“And as Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle notes , since then only four of the World Series champions since that time have had closer-by-committee groups featuring three pitchers. Well, actually, only four teams had three players with eight saves or more across the season.”
Venice Jim
September 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
Bat – I was careful not to look beyond the end of the column…
Felix Millan
September 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
thanks, VJ..I was lucky enough to be at East Lake this past Saturday. Watched all the groups come through 13. Talented bunch.
MiaBchBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
Shaun, while I agree that the heart of an order can show up in the 7th or 8th, the ninth is the end. Hitters adjust, go to the opposite field, do whatever it takes to stave off eventual loss. In a close game, that matters. Even in the 7th, a hitter is apt to think that there are still AB chances, and will stay within himself to get on or hit a dinger.
The ninth is where the weirdness begins. Give me a shutdown closer in the ninth every day of the week, twice in the playoffs. If you don’t believe me, ask Davey Johnson.
DAP
September 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
shaun Because it seems to me that if a teams best three hitters are up in the 7th inning of a close game, those are likely tougher outs to get than what could happen in the last inning.
all things being equal, maybe. but the 7th inning is different form the 9th. the 9th is the end. what happens in the 9th has a bigger impact on the game, because afterwards…theres no more game.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
Tonight’s Mets starter, LHP Jonathon Niese, is 12-9 with a 3.49 ERA. He has very good peripheral numbers as well, allowing 8.3 H/9, walking 2.3 per 9, and 7.5 K/9. WHIP is 1.178. He has been worth 2.7 WAR so far. He is averaging 6.1 IP a start. He’s been on quite a roll lately, having pitched no less than 6IP in a start since May!
He has had a very good 2nd half, sporting a 5-5 record, with a 3.16 ERA over 12 starts. He has been especially good in August and September, with a 2.61 ERA in August, and a 2.95 ERA so far in September.
Against the Braves this year, he has done well. In 3 starts, he has a 2-1 record with a 2.25 ERA. He’s pitched 20 innings, and has walked 7, struck out 15. He has allowed 7 runs (6 earned) and 2 HR. The Braves hold a .181/.253/.306/.559 line against him this year. (79 PAs). He has yet to pitched at Turner Field this year, however.
For his career, he is 5-3 against the Braves, with a 3.15 ERA, in 11 starts. He has made 2 starts at the Ted in his career, pitching 11 innings. He has a 4.09 ERA here.
TennesseePaul
September 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
Even saves to blown saves needs context
Good point. I should clarify, I’d only look at that for a pitcher who is labeled as a closer for a team. Teams can burn through closers, so he might not pile up a lot of those saves by not holding the position long, but, if what he does have is not coupled with a pile of blown opportunities it’s a quick way to see if he has been at least effective in what has been requested of him.
Bat Masterson
September 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
VJ_
Sometimes I just can’t resist. Insane and funny at the same time
Brian from SC
September 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
More stuff that makes me happy, just because:
Every MLB team has now played the same number of games, for the first time this season. Every team has played 156, with 6 games in the next 6 days.
Shaun
September 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
Shaun, I’m saying that when somebody proposes a closer as a Cy Young candidate, he should at least be dominating his peers in the saves to saves blown ratio, and Kimbrel isn’t. All other criteria are secondary, because the point of the closer role is to finish games successfully.
Well, I think the biggest problem with a reliever being a Cy Young candidate is that it’s hard for a reliever to make as much of an impact as the very best starting pitchers when you consider the differences in innings, even if you give relievers some extra credit for throwing higher-leverage innings.
Even a pitcher like Kris Medlen has thrown more than double the innings of a Craig Kimbrel. So it’s hard to argue that Kimbrel has made as much of an impact as a pitcher like Cueto, Kershaw or Dickey, who are having great seasons and who are among the league leaders in innings.
Bat Masterson
September 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
Oh, and there are some good comments there, too. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise.
TennesseePaul
September 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
it seems to me that if a teams best three hitters are up in the 7th inning of a close game, those are likely tougher outs to get than what could happen in the last inning
You couldn’t possibly know this. In the seventh inning you have no idea of what the 9th may hold. All you do know is that, barring a hurricane, there will be a 9th inning. Put another way…”it seems to me that if a teams best three hitters are up in the 7th inning of a close game, it’s possible that the team sends enough hitters up in the 8th to permit bringing the big hitters up again in the 9th making the situation in the 9th even more difficult than previously assumed.”
The Braves need not worry about this. This team has a pen capable of getting any one out in any inning and they all seem quite comfortable with the roles they have so there is little to compel them to change this late in the season.
David O'Brien
September 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
NEW BLOGGAGE for the people
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/09/28/chippers-best-player-i-ever-covered-best-i-dealt-with/
phil
September 28th, 2012
1:39 pm
Tiger has gained a few pounds, you know…
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 28th, 2012
1:41 pm
The current hitters on the team have a accrued 210 PAs against Niese, and have a .291/.333/.464/.798 line (57 for 126) with 15 doubles, 2 triples and 5 HR. They have driven in 29, and walked 13 times, struck out 41 times
This year, it’s been different .215/.271/.342/.612 line (17 for 79) with 4 doubles and 2 HR.
Baker and Heyward are the only 2 guys to have had “success” against him this year; Heyward is 3-10 and Baker is 2-6.
For his career, Uggla, Heyward, Bourn, Freeman, Ross, Johnson, and Baker have all hit him well (averages of .250+ in more than 10 ABs). Chipper, McCann, and Prado have all struggled (BMac is just 1-12, Prado is 6-27, and Chipper is 4-20)
TennesseePaul
September 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
I’m saying that when somebody proposes a closer as a Cy Young candidate, he should at least be dominating his peers in the saves to saves blown ratio, and Kimbrel isn’t
I don’t know if I’d hold that against Kimbrel. He has only blown 3 saves. That’s pretty good historically. Add in that he has set the bar extraordinary high in every relief category besides total saves and it is an exceptional year. I would not hold it against him that he is playing on a team which as only presented him 43 chances at a save. I’d look at it and notice that in those 43 chances he has absolutely dominated in 40 of them. Dominated to a level no other pitcher has in the history of the game.
keyLargo
September 28th, 2012
1:49 pm
Hitting against Craig Kimbrel in 2012 has been more difficult than hitting against any other pitcher in the history of the game, for a season.
I won’t dispute Kimbrel’s stuff, but one thing Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax had was that they would flat out throw at you if you set up on top of the plate. And it was legal to do so.
keyLargo
September 28th, 2012
1:51 pm
Hitting against Craig Kimbrel in 2012 has been more difficult than hitting against any other pitcher in the history of the game, for a season.
I won’t dispute Kimbrel’s stuff, but one thing Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax had was that they would flat out throw at you and hit you if you set up on top of the plate.
nolie
September 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
abhor the DH rule, I believe Bud and his Buds will prevail, and implement the DH rule universally,.. raleigh
on a recent interview Bud said there are no plans at all to bring the DL to the NL
George_George
September 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
nolie
September 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
abhor the DH rule, I believe Bud and his Buds will prevail, and implement the DH rule universally,.. raleigh
on a recent interview Bud said there are no plans at all to bring the DL to the NL
*************
Good day all
Hope it never happens. Welcome back nolie, hope all is well with you now. IT IS CHIPPER DAY, Pray no rain.
Mets R Best
September 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
Beware Braves fans!!! The Mighty Metropolitans and the great David Wright are on a roll. We just whipped up on two opponents; the Miami Marlins, who we swept and the Pittsburg Pirates who we just took 3 out of 4 from. Why the great play? Because the Mighty Mets have transformed into an offensive machine. They are capable of taking any team down. Any team. I just hope the umpires will call a fair game this series, not like the last series at Turner field when the Mets got ripped off by bad calls.
..Watch out Braves fans and be afraid because the Mighty Mets are in town and they aim to spoil Atlanta’s party.
Tremble Braves fans, tremble.
Brave New World
September 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
Mets R Best September 28th, 2012 3:53 pm I just hope the umpires will call a fair game this series, not like the last series at Turner field when the Mets got ripped off by bad calls.
And not like the “no hitter” that Santana did not throw (see Carlos Beltran for details).
Doc Holliday
September 28th, 2012
6:17 pm
Im not sure if this has been said lately………but for those who dont believe in pitching:
LA Dodgers are the only team among top 6 ERA teams that are not making the playoff.
1. NATS
2. Reds
3. LA
4. Braves
5. SF
6. Cards.
Only 2 teams among top 5 in runs scored are going to the playoffs……….. Cards and Nats.
Same goes in the AL:
of the top 9 ERA ………..8 of those teams are still alive or are already in for the playoffs. Only mariners (3rd) are out.
While in runs scored……..only 6 of top 9 are in or alive………….
this clearly tells that pitching gives you a better shot at advancing into playoffs.
Who Me?
September 28th, 2012
6:36 pm
Nina Simone kicks ass.