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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,212 comments Add your comment
DAP
September 19th, 2012
10:07 am
the defensive metrics are unreliable and shouldnt be leaned on to make a decision on MVP. if you are using WAR as a weighty stat when deciding MVP, you are basically propping up CFers, and SS, while retracting from 1st basemen and catchers.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:07 am
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0
The most progressive baseball front offices now do think of it that as another way of creating value. “It’s a zero sum game,” a GM said recently. “If you can save a run with your defense or create a run (on the base paths), it’s the same as hitting a home run.”
Where is Shaun Payne when you need him to pound his chest and scream Wins Above Replacement at the top of his lungs?
And I guess, while I don’t have WAR tattoed on my chest – I do get that defense and baserunning are damn important, and why I am not going to just look at slash lines to compare players.
For example, if Heyward was a first baseman, he wouldn’t have as high a WAR. But, his baserunning still matters, and therefore, he wouldn’t have as low a WAR as some of the first baseman out there. I like that it compiles everything into one stat. However, I disagree with the defensive limitations it puts on 1st base and what it gives to Catchers. It’s overkill in that regard.
nolie
September 19th, 2012
10:07 am
Wow, was really quiet over night. I thought there would be wailing and rending of garments all night.
Fredi is prolly not going anywhere if we get to the post season, even just the one game qualifier.
Not many managers with 90 wins get canned.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:08 am
Angel’s are gonna hate the Pujols contract in a few years. He’s declining. Even in his final season in St Louis his numbers dipped, and they have dropped again. He even has more K’s than BB’s, 1st time since his rookie year.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:08 am
the defensive metrics are unreliable and shouldnt be leaned on to make a decision on MVP. if you are using WAR as a weighty stat when deciding MVP, you are basically propping up CFers, and SS, while retracting from 1st basemen and catchers.
But look at what Mike Trout is doing as a CF. It;s insane. He’s hitting like a 1st baseman, while still playing great defense at a premium position. And he’s like the best baserunner in the league. It’s not even close, imo.
nolie
September 19th, 2012
10:08 am
I don’t think many voters are using WAR yet, especially not as the sole basis of their decisions.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:08 am
Lohse was said to be overpaid his last contract but you are right, his ante is going up regardless his age. Not a strikeout guy a not prototype #1, but he is a huge reason the Cardinals probably make the playoffs this season. Hopefully we don’t see in the WC game and he pitches that last series to get them there.
Veer
September 19th, 2012
10:09 am
Jeff Baker being intentionally walked to face Micheal Bourn was perhaps the biggest disgrace I have ever witnessed of a Superstar Braves player. Never before i have seen a similar situtation like this where a no name scrub like Jeff Baker is walked to face a superstar with speed.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:09 am
True nolie…only way Fredi gets canned is if the Braves collapse again and don’t make the playoffs, which is so remotely possible now, it’s really not even worth mention. The Braves are about 10 times less likely to miss the playoffs right now as they were at their best point last year.
nolie
September 19th, 2012
10:10 am
I agree that Trout is having a monster season, taking into account everything that he brings to the table. He would be my choice for AL MVP. Prolly POY
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:10 am
I really doubt writers are using WAR solely. But front offices are absolutely using it. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:11 am
While trying to talk about all facets of the game when evaluating a player, I am always hesitant to use WAR when trying to prove something. Notice that not once in my posts this morning have I used WAR to trumpet the case for Trout. WAR can be a great snapshot, but it’s still a little too subjective to be used with the same confidence as OPS, etc.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:13 am
Who here still wants the team to sign Bourn to a multi-year deal this offseason, knowing what his price will be? Stand and be recognized.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:13 am
As opposed to saying that front offices “use WAR,” I think it’s much more likely that they use their own proprietary metrics to evaluate players, in every facet of their game. I doubt they log on to baseball-reference and check the WAR. You could say they make their own “WAR”.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:13 am
I don’t know, I’d probably vote for Cabrera. Not a fan of a rookie winning the award. Unbelievable that Cabrera hasn’t won a MVP yet, and now a rook is gonna beat him out for it… Come on.. lol
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:13 am
“A run saved on defense is the same as hitting a home run on offense”
Also not true. Because how in the world do you quantify a run saved on defense? It isn’t as clear cut as a homer. Not to mention a homer can drive in 1,2,3,4 guys.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
10:14 am
AT, on another note, I hope you know I was just messin’ with you on the Constanza/Gentry comparison yesterday. OK?
But stathead condescension doesn’t do him any favors.
Here’s a perfect example of how the “intelligent martyr” attitude taken by some saber-centric folks just completely derails the conversation on advanced statistics. Olney is one of those guys who has always been willing to listen, willing to have his mind changed, willing to embrace when convinced, but unwilling to simply bow down with dogmatic acceptance. If he, and like-minded folks, perceive proponents of advanced analysis as condescending statheads, how do we ever forward the conversation? I hope we aren’t doomed to forever have Murray Chase and Keith Law and nothing in between. That leaves folks like Buster on a lonely island.
CB
September 19th, 2012
10:15 am
Is this blog as slow for everyone else or is it just my computer. Dang
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:16 am
Free Agent starting pitchers – Greinke, Peavy, Dempster, A. Sanchez, Haren, Lohse, Jackson, Kuroda, Marcum, Liriano, Blanton, Saunders, McCarthy, E. Santana
Sort of a deep, good – mediocre market.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:16 am
The most I would go for Bourn would be 5 years 55 million. Which isn’t enough to get it done. Even this past offseason that Is what I suggested, his awesome 1st half plus playing a premium position with tons of teams in need of a CFer is what will make his price likely be in the 75-85 million range.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:17 am
Neither Cabrera or Trout should win if they are on high payroll teams that CAN’T make the playoffs.
So in regards to the NL MVP if all those guys are equal at a 6.5 WAR, don’t you have to go with the guy who is on a playoff team? I mean you have Braun, McCutchen, and Yadier. Should be Yadier right?
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:17 am
I agree that it’s difficult to quantify a run saved on defense, much more difficult than offense. But still, it’s true that a run saved on defense is the same as a (solo) home run. How you measure it is another task, and one people are still trying to figure out. We’re certainly better at it now than 10 years go, but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
That’s why you don’t see me quoting defensive stats hardly ever to prove any kind of point. They’re just not as reliable.
But just because the metrics aren’t as reliable right now doesn’t mean that defense is not important. It’s just that it’s harder to tell how important it is.
cricket
September 19th, 2012
10:17 am
i honestly believe that awards should be given out based on some agreed upon statistical model with no more human voting. teams can decide which players they want to pay and how much based on market conditions, team needs and any other criteria they deem right.
personally, cabrera with his 40 HR and >1 OPS can play on my team anytime (if i can afford him) and i don’t care if he uses hoveround on the base paths.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:18 am
If there were two or more players who I thought were “equal” in value, then sure, whether the team is in the playoffs could be a great tiebreaker.
DAP
September 19th, 2012
10:19 am
efrim But look at what Mike Trout is doing as a CF. It;s insane. He’s hitting like a 1st baseman, while still playing great defense at a premium position. And he’s like the best baserunner in the league. It’s not even close, imo.
id probably go trout, without looking at WAR. but, its close. ;- )
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:20 am
I hope we aren’t doomed to forever have Murray Chase and Keith Law and nothing in between. That leaves folks like Buster on a lonely island.
I sort of blame the Murray Chase faction a bit more than the Keith Law’s of the world. But I do understand your point. Oh well. I always say….
Get busy living. It’s 2012(or insert present year).
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:21 am
MFin04, I am a little confused. You seem to think Cabrera should win the MVP, but you also said that you think it should be a requirement that a team make the playoffs. If the playoffs started today, the Tigers would not be in. In fact, they are 3 games back in their division. The Angels are 2.5 games back from the 2nd wild card.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:21 am
.558 slugging vs .612 slugging isn’t something that should be scoffed at either. That is a GIGANTIC difference. Defense and baserunning matter, but their hitting isn’t that close.
1.006 vs .954, that’s a pretty drastic difference.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:22 am
“Who here still wants the team to sign Bourn to a multi-year deal this offseason, knowing what his price will be? Stand and be recognized.”
I would but around 12-13M and not even in the conversation at 15M. I also sit him more next season. It’s also not etched in stone he has to leadoff everygame for me. Prado can bat leadoff during steakier times and bat Bourn 7th or 8th if he’s going south.
Werth isn’t typical leadoff hitter for the Nationals is he? Mix it up. Problem is with Bourn is if you have any thought of resigning him, can’t move him down today or tomorrow. He’s been very disappointing lets be honest of his hitting and reason this team is so inconsistent.
Fredi is in a tough pickle. Unless somebody, Heyward, Freeman, Chipper(doubtful) or McCann and Uggla can carry this team for 4-5 game stretch, this lineup is going to have a difficult time getting out of the NLDS and advancing. Still would give some thought of shaking it up(Chipper 2nd, Prado 5th etc). Rolling the dice thinking something is going to change and it really hasn’t the last 5 weeks. Good but good enough?
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:22 am
Is there a way on fangraphs or baseball-reference to pick two players and do a direct comparison?
I want to see a direct comparison of Bourn and Pagan. $15mil vs $7mil (guesstimated)…
cricket
September 19th, 2012
10:23 am
That leaves folks like Buster on a lonely island.
gotta disagree here scoots. i think that island is actually pretty crowded but that crowd has no desire to fight online pis* fights with either side. that crowd remembers that this is still a game they loved as a kid and prefers to enjoy it without proselytizing. may be that crowd is actually smart..
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:23 am
And only 2 pitchers in that class that I’d like Frank to get (as they’re good #1-2s)…. Greinke and Haren. The Dodgers can choose from the other guys to make their rotation. Get Big-Game Zack in the ATL!
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:23 am
I mean you have Braun, McCutchen, and Yadier. Should be Yadier right?
Stop just looking at one stat or model like WAR.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:24 am
It would be nice to see Prado get a vote or 2 for NL MVP. Is there another player that plays everyday at 3-4 different positions? He also has the most multi-hit games in baseball, 300 AVG, almost 40 doubles and 20 steals.. Of course I know he isn’t a top contender for the award but he deserves alot of credit. Much better than any analyst gives him credit for.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:24 am
“You seem to think Cabrera should win the MVP, but you also said that you think it should be a requirement that a team make the playoffs.”
I think the best player on a playoff team should win the award, yes. Cano? Beltre? I dunno. But it seems hard to be valuable if you aren’t getting to the playoffs. The whole point of the season is to make the playoffs and win the world series. Now if there isn’t a guy putting up monster numbers on a playoff team…you might have to default to a non-playoff team, but you gotta look at playoff teams first.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
10:25 am
But still, it’s true that a run saved on defense is the same as a (solo) home run.
I’m going to disagree, Brian, but it’s mainly on context. Defensive runs saved are in the category of pitching to low-runs-given up for me, in that they contribute to not losing, which is slightly different from winning. Perfect pitching and perfect defense can only produce a tie at zero; only the offensive side can provide the scoring necessary to win.
I know that may seem like a small distinction, but that’s my opinion.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:25 am
Free Agent starting pitchers – Greinke, Peavy, Dempster, A. Sanchez, Haren, Lohse, Jackson, Kuroda, Marcum, Liriano, Blanton, Saunders, McCarthy, E. Santana
And based on that list, I’d bet only Greinke, Peavy, Dempster, A. Sancez, Lohse Kuroda, and Jackson get multi year deals.
Arkansas Transplant
September 19th, 2012
10:26 am
ncscoots, yes I know… If you won’t have, I would have thought something was wrong with you.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:26 am
Very possible that Bourn is wore down in the 2nd half.. Probably should have given him a few more days off early on vs LHP atleast. But oh well.
cricket
September 19th, 2012
10:27 am
Get Big-Game Zack in the ATL!
Duke’s 1st name is spelled Zach
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:27 am
Efrim
I doubt we sign any of them, If we add a pitcher it will likely be threw trade.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:28 am
I would but around 12-13M and not even in the conversation at 15M. I also sit him more next season. It’s also not etched in stone he has to leadoff everygame for me. Prado can bat leadoff during steakier times and bat Bourn 7th or 8th if he’s going south.
You’d pay $13mil for a hitter to hit 8th? We’ve already got one of those in Uggla.
Bourn plays great defense (I’m ignoring the fact that he jumped for a ball and missed last night when he still had 5+ feet before hitting the wall), but I’m having a hard time justifying paying Bourn $7-8mil more than a guy like Pagan, whose defense is average but bat is above average, or at least above Bourn’s bat.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:30 am
MFin04, I guess I would just say that I don’t view 1.000 to .950 as an ENORMOUS OPS gap. It basically boils down to Cabrera getting attaining 30 more bases with his bat over the course of a year.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:31 am
“Stop just looking at one stat or model like WAR.”
I’m not. But what else do you want to look at? If you can’t look at HRs and RBIs anymore. You have SBs and War. Precisely why speedy guys are now a lock for the MVP.
If you don’t look at WAR you basically ignore baserunning and defense. If you look at HRs and RBIs you are old school voting. If you look at OPS you still are valuing the extra base hit but overlooking defense. What is your defining number? Because in the NL there are a lot of guys who are having valuable seasons, but it depends on what you value most.
Yadier is the best catcher in the game.
Braun best LF in the game, but LF is relatively worthless
Wright is on a terrible team
McCutchen plays CF which is a big plus in WAR
Posey is 2nd best catcher in NL best has the best offensive numbers
cricket
September 19th, 2012
10:31 am
Enter your comments here
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:33 am
“I’m having a hard time justifying paying Bourn $7-8mil more than a guy like Pagan, whose defense is average but bat is above average, or at least above Bourn’s bat.”
Ok, agreed. But what if the Braves can’t get Pagan and they can’t get Victorino and end up with a guy like Constanza or Schafer? Then we’re really screwed.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:34 am
Bourn is a bit of a puzzle. Would love to have him back and his defense is very solid regardless of last night. Sit him more against lefties no doubt. I have always been in agreement with Nolie, we are way too dependent on hitters batting from the left side. Pagan a switch hitter right? Might have to consider. Bourn, Freeman, McCann, Heyward fixed in lineup everyday isn’t balance you really look for.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:34 am
I’m not. But what else do you want to look at? If you can’t look at HRs and RBIs anymore. You have SBs and War. Precisely why speedy guys are now a lock for the MVP.
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS+/XBH’s/BB’S/BB% and defensive metrics to figure out whose playing great defense. WAR helps with that too. Wraps a lot of it up.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:35 am
I actually like Victorino and what he brings attitude wise, but he may be done. I thought change of venue would help with production out in LA but he’s been pretty mediocre. Big leap of faith taking a flyer right now on him.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
10:35 am
may be that crowd is actually smart
cricket, maybe so. Still…
Sometimes, I think I bang on Shaun as much as I do because he reminds me of, well, me.
A little, anyway. I’ve been reading about sabermetrics and such for probably longer than he’s been reading, period, and I certainly can remember eureka moments. And such moments make you want to share the new-found knowledge. One can think that some conclusions are self-evident and become exasperated when it turns out to not be so. I get that.
But the smartest guy in the room doesn’t get to be that way by telling everybody else that they are less smart. Do that, and you don’t end up in the room, in the first place, because you don’t get invited to the party. Some sabercentric folks haven’t picked up on that.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:35 am
MFin04, I don’t believe there is a defining number. If there were, MVP voting would be really easy and the voting would be unanimous every year. You have to look at everything, some of not even statistical, and make your own judgment.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:36 am
Ok, agreed. But what if the Braves can’t get Pagan and they can’t get Victorino and end up with a guy like Constanza or Schafer? Then we’re really screwed.
If they can’t get Bourn (for the right price, which is way under what some here are estimating), Pagan, or any of the other FA centerfielders, then they are going to have to turn to the trade market.
I like Constanza for reasons I cited yesterday (he annoys scoots to no end), but I think everyone knows he can’t man CF for more than a game or two a season. Johnson isn’t an option because he’s a delicate flower who can’t play more than 2 games a week. Cunningham, by all accounts, is a 4th outfielder at best. So….
No Bourn, no Pagan, no other FA means trade. Or Heyward in CF.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:36 am
NL MVP is a tough call. Could really go with Braun, McCutchen or Posey.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:37 am
Bourn
Chipper
Heyward
Freeman
Prado
McCann or Uggla depending on who throws
Simmons
Venice Jim
September 19th, 2012
10:37 am
Barry Rozner @BarryRozner
That’s idiotic RT @jcrasnick Can we stop throwing around the term “idiot” or “moron” for everyone who looks from a different viewpoint?
Retweeted by Jerry Crasnick
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
10:39 am
like Constanza for reasons I cited yesterday (he annoys scoots to no end)
Don’t be a doody-head.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:41 am
“NL MVP is a tough call. Could really go with Braun, McCutchen or Posey.”
And Harold Reynolds says none of them. Adam LaRoche or Yadier.
Can’t understand Yadier at all although he’s had a really good season. Got a lot of help from Beltran the first half of the season so not like he’s carried them(although Beltran’s production way down second half)
DAP
September 19th, 2012
10:43 am
frankie I actually like Victorino and what he brings attitude wise, but he may be done
had a bad year, but i highly doubt he is done. and, he isnt michael bourn in CF, but he is good out there. not a bad option if you want to try and buy low.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:44 am
I really like Bourn. A lot. He brings many things, even if his hitting is just average for his position. All that said, I think he will get more $$$ and years than we can justify (barring a payroll increase, shich I believe is still possible, especially if we go deep in the post-season).
To me, the following are no brainers…Give Bourn a “qualifying offer” as well as a contract offer that fits our budget after he turns down the QO, exercise the options on McCann and Huddy for 2013, try to sign Prado and Heyward to extensions, and resign Reed Johnson (2 years?)
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:44 am
“NL MVP is a tough call. Could really go with Braun, McCutchen or Posey.”
But that is not valuing defense again. I think this argument could go in circles, but oh well, it is what we do.
Braun and McCutchen are on losing teams.
Posey is on a winning team.
Yadier is on a winning team.
Yadier is a better overall catcher than Posey and has a higher WAR.
The only way Posey is a better player than Yadier is if you only heavily weight offensive numbers.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:45 am
Don’t be a doody-head.
You’ve finally shown a weakness on here… an achilles heal… and I plan on poking it with a sharp stick from time to time. It’s just what I do.
In all seriousness, I think 90% of people on here know that Constanza is not the guy to start in CF for the Braves. Even the rabid Constanza supporter(s) knows this deep down in their empty, blackened souls.
Someone has to start in CF next season, though, and based on his performance over the last couple of months, I sure hope it isn’t Bourn. 147 K’s?? Cripes, Uggla has 157! And a higher OBP. Bat him leadoff.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:47 am
Who’s clutch? Prado, Chipper, Huddy
, Medlen, and Kimbrel. JHey is a curious case
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1338850-5-gamers-on-the-atlanta-braves-roster-who-will-step-up-in-pressure-spots
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:47 am
DAP – I don’t think Victorino will be a candidate for the “bargain basement”.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
10:48 am
All of the options for CF or LF will depend on the price tag. If Sahen Victorino wants to play on a one year deal for $5 million, then that’s going to change the front offices line of thinking.
I’m sure they are all for putting the best team out there, though.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:48 am
Not against Victorino and a risk but he could be had cheap. The Phillies success he deserves a lot of credit(especially when playing Braves). Don’t buy into well he’s not the Braves kind of guy either. I like his fiery temperament, wouldn’t hurt. This guy isn’t Yunel Escobar, he’s a winner.
Brian from SC
September 19th, 2012
10:49 am
Braun and McCutchen are on losing teams.
Posey is on a winning team.
Yadier is on a winning team.
The Pirates and Brewers both have winning records. In fact, the Brewers are only 2.5 GB of Yadier’s Cardinals, the Pirates only 3.5 GB. Hardly a big difference over the course of a season.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:50 am
TOBF – Of course (and here we go again) Shaun says that there is no “clutch”…or is it that EVERYONE is “clutch”? I never can remember which it is.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:50 am
keithlaw @keithlaw
Trout remains the only rational choice. “@Peter_Villa_III: @keithlaw Who would you choose as your AL MVP??”
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:52 am
Braves could look too add big offense in LF, while going after 1 of Peter Bourjos, Craig Gentry, or Denard Span for CF.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:53 am
Shaun says that there is no “clutch”…or is it that EVERYONE is “clutch”?
Everyone is clutch, therefore no one is clutch, because clutch doesn’t exist when it’s an attribute inherit in every MLB player.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:54 am
I’d be surprised if Braun gets it this year, after the fiasco last year.
Yunel can’t understand what all the fuss is about. What a guy.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
10:55 am
How the f*@* can that guy make a argument about whether or not “clutch hitting” isn’t a trait when hitting. BTW, is he serious with this argument? Ridiculous, some guys perform at higher level and differently under pressure situations.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
10:55 am
“Hardly a big difference over the course of a season.”
1 game is a big difference if Yadier’s team gets in, and those two don’t.
I’m pretty sure Victorino has already said he is a LOCK to stay in LA. So I wouldn’t count on him or Pagan. I think they like where they are.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:55 am
Murph – Thanks. That clears it all up. Oh course, I was actually being quite facetious.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:56 am
Won’t the Rangers need Gentry after letting Hamilton walk this offseason, though? Why would they give him up? And if they were to give him up, do the Braves even line up with the Rangers’ needs in a possible trade? I guess they’ll be looking for some rotation help…
Hanson for Gentry?
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
10:56 am
Frankie – This is an old, on going, well beaten argument with Shaun.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
10:58 am
Braves could look too add big offense in LF, while going after 1 of Peter Bourjos, Craig Gentry, or Denard Span for CF.
Which is what I’d prefer… Willingham or similar for LF, go cheap/defense in CF. Get Bourjos or Jay.
Murph
September 19th, 2012
10:58 am
Murph – Thanks. That clears it all up. Oh course, I was actually being quite facetious.
As was I, raleigh… as was I.
VaBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
11:00 am
Wow, just got great news. Finally got the call about the job. They want me and my dad to start tomorrow! Basically getting a 50% raise from the crap company we were at.
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
11:01 am
Hanson for Gentry? Sign me up. Gentry is at least a good 4th OF, maybe more. Hanson is a #6 for us right now….
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:01 am
I’m actually for Denard Span in CF. Hell, I’d love to get both Span and Willingham in a trade.
Span and Willingham for Hanson, Delgado, Ahmed, and something else.
Frankie
September 19th, 2012
11:01 am
“Frankie – This is an old, on going, well beaten argument with Shaun”
Don’t want to spend a lot of time on it then. I did pose a question to him a long time ago regarding his experience playing baseball. Wasn’t being a smart azz at all and he responded he played up until high school which no way did I believe and still don’t. No biggie and don’t judge him on whether he did or didn’t. Still until you experience playing on some level(later in life and not T ball or Little League either), and have come across that situation with the game on the line or pressure situation can’t make that argument. Just can’t have that kind of conviction without going through it IMO.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:02 am
Hanson for Gentry? Sign me up
Holy hell.
DAP
September 19th, 2012
11:03 am
ralieghbravesfan I don’t think Victorino will be a candidate for the “bargain basement”.
no, but you cant argue with the “buy low” tag. hes having the worst season of his career. he wont make $10mil per.
MFin04 I’m pretty sure Victorino has already said he is a LOCK to stay in LA
its not really up to him, is it…?
TheOnlyBravesFan
September 19th, 2012
11:05 am
Don’t like Spans splits away from Minnesota, but he does play good D. If we’re getting Willingham with him, that’s okay…
Holy hell.
Oh, Hanson alone isn’t enough? Thought that might be the case. Throw in Gilmartin or Spruill as well.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
11:06 am
Span and Willingham for Hanson, Delgado, Ahmed, and something else.
I could live with that, I guess. Means pitching has to come from the FA market, assuming Wren decides he wants some pitching.
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:10 am
I could live with that, I guess. Means pitching has to come from the FA market, assuming Wren decides he wants some pitching.
Span will make $4.75 million in 2013. Willingham will make $7 million. Hanson woll make between $3-4 million.
We’d have around $12-15 million to spend on a pitcher in that scenario.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
11:10 am
That dang Willingham, though, he might be having too good a year, blast his eyes. I wish he hadn’t done that.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
11:11 am
scoots – Let’s see…OTBF may be able to suggest a pitcher who will be a free agent…
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:12 am
CF Span
3B Prado
RF Heyward
LF Willingham
1B Freeman
2B Uggla
C McCann
SS Simmons
Or we could bat Span 7th, Prado leadoff and Heyward 2nd while moving everyone else up. Something like that.
CB
September 19th, 2012
11:12 am
Throw Zeke in.
cowdogit
September 19th, 2012
11:12 am
How many TRIPLE A batting champions are on the braves roster. Constanza hits left handed pitchers, very fast , great defense. I don’t see paying bourn ten million when you have the same type player in Constanza for peanuts. Constanza’s attitude problem would change if he was given a chance to play. If a brave hits over 250 he’s considered a super-star.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
11:14 am
Let’s see…OTBF may be able to suggest a pitcher who will be a free agent
Bubba, please.
MFin04
September 19th, 2012
11:14 am
“Its not really up to him, is it…?
Sure it is. The guy has to want to play for the Braves and I don’t see the two syncing up if he wants to stay in LA.
brian
September 19th, 2012
11:14 am
keith law is correct – Trout is the only rational choice for AL MVP.
Now, who for NL MVP?
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:14 am
Right now, Scott Diamond is scheduled to pitch on opening day for the Twins.
They need starting pitching by the bunches. It’s scary. And they have Aaron Hicks and Oswaldo Arcia ready to step in at the CF and RF/LF spots at some point in 2013. Span is definitely a goner, and Willingham might be too. I’d clean house if I were them. Long ways away.
raleighbravefan
September 19th, 2012
11:15 am
scoots – Sorry, my friend.
ncscoots
September 19th, 2012
11:16 am
Throw Zeke in.
Much as I hate it. If he goes for a bat in LF, I’ll mourn his passing and tip a glass in his memory.
But I’d still help him pack, first.
P-Town Brave ©
September 19th, 2012
11:17 am
Efrim-
Good choice….while Span not having as much pop or stealing as many bases gets on at a better career clip than Bourn w/ the ability to draw a walk and actually has close to amount of walks that he K’s….
AND he doesn’t K at an alarming rate for a leadoff hitter like Bourn does. (Bourn has ~140 K, Span ~60)
What the Braves need to get their RISP higher I have said all along is more balls in play….we now have 4 players that are upwards of 120 K’s and 3 who are over 140 K’s….while Heyward, Freeman, and Uggla are probably going nowhere, this can be remedied by replacing Bourn w/ a guy like Span….
Also remember that we lose another low K high BB guy in Chipper, so it would also be nice to replace him w/ a LF that has a low K rate if we move Prado to 3b…
Not sure who that LF would be but an emphasis on BIP would be nice….I just look at how much more consistent the team would be if we didnt have guys striking out w/ RISP at every turn…
Also, keep away from Victorino…he’s not a leadoff hitter….
Efrim
September 19th, 2012
11:17 am
I do believe our three prime trade pieces are Hanson, Delgado and Ahmed. We have depth at SP and SS. Makes sense that those three would be included in deals this winter to upgrade the roster.