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Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,647 comments Add your comment
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:37 pm
It would take 4 players to get Headley. Would like Headley, but the Braves would have to give up the house.
Obee
August 31st, 2012
2:37 pm
DOB is too tactful sometimes. People who criticize his effort are completely clueless! I often wonder how he manages to do as much as he does, and so damn quickly. I just hope he doesn’t leave for a larger market.
Murph
August 31st, 2012
2:38 pm
Houston Astros might hire Baseball Prospectus prospects guy Kevin Goldstein
I’m dusting off the ol’ resume… gonna go get a job in the Astros front office.
I’m sure they need a guy with limited baseball knowledge to head up something. Maybe concessions?
Hello Astros Sopapillaporium!!!
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
2:39 pm
I just hope [O'Brien] doesn’t leave for a larger market.
I believe he’s still in his arb years, and thus under blog control.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:39 pm
Mainly because of his defense… he had the 25th ranked defense when he was in Milwaukee,..TOBF
we are talking EARNED runs here right? Everybody knows that defense only causes UNEARNED runs……
what happened during that one great season, they have a completely different bucha defenders that year??????
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:39 pm
I’m dusting off the ol’ resume… gonna go get a job in the Astros front office.
Happy to see Luhnow look at guys like Goldstein and Law.
Rays also take from BP, ESPN.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:40 pm
nolie – How was your birthday?
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:41 pm
Thanx Scoots, and everybody else who sent BDay wishes.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
2:41 pm
so, who to root for? STL or WSH?
Cards…. Easy. We are in the driver’s seat for 1st WC… we need help for the division.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
2:41 pm
Happy to see Luhnow look at guys like Goldstein and Law.
Hey, we might get to see a closer in the 7th with those guys, LOL. Isn’t Luhnow supposed to be somewhat sabercentric?
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:41 pm
Happy belated, noles. Did you go to TB and see Bossman Junior play? Hehe.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:42 pm
IIRC Carroll was the beat writer B4 DOB?
She can be our backup plan if he holds out for too much moolah
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:43 pm
Isn’t Luhnow supposed to be somewhat sabercentric?
Big time, apparently. VP of Scouting and Player Development with the Cardinals since ‘06. Loves the draft.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:43 pm
If I went to Tampa for a BJ, it wouldn’t be Upton, Efrim……
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
2:44 pm
She can be our backup plan if he holds out for too much moolah
David won’t do that. More likely to restructure, to give the team some flexibility.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
2:45 pm
we are talking EARNED runs here right?
Yes…. but having guys on defense who have limited range counts for something too…. the Royals and Brewers had guys full of those type of guys. Braves are far and away covering more ground and preventing more runs than anyone else in the MLB this year….
the Royals and Brewers were giving up runs due to lack of range. It’s like they had Tyler Pastornicky’s all over their defense.
As for Greinke’s special season, I don’t know what happened there, the Royals still were bad defensively. He just had a “special” unstoppable season. I wouldn’t say that because of that season, he should be able to pitch to a 3.00 ERA, no matter the defense. Those 7 guys are behind him for a reason. They need to do their jobs and make the plays for their pitcher.
Fish Bisch
August 31st, 2012
2:45 pm
I love the new In This Moment album.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:46 pm
And of course, left the Cards to become Stros GM last year.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:46 pm
If I went to Tampa for a BJ, it wouldn’t be Upton, Efrim……
Hah! Awesome.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
2:48 pm
“but 3.80 is what he gives up and what his team has had to beat to win”
Exactly. You can analyze every pitcher and say defense behind him wasn’t good or that he plays in a better division or that he is in the AL/NL, big market, small market.
Fact of the matter is he has consistently put up a 3.80 ERA. That isn’t elite and it isn’t worth $20 million.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
2:48 pm
If I went to Tampa for a BJ, it wouldn’t be Upton
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:49 pm
Damn I see history repeat itself in Basball…….
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
2:50 pm
Big time, apparently.
Oh, goody. Now he can hire Brian Kenney to manage, and we can get a real-world test of Clubhouse Confidential.
I can’t help but laugh when that guy is on the dais with two former ballplayers. The looks of pity are the most eloquent “analysis” from the former players on the show, LOL.
chipontheroad
August 31st, 2012
2:50 pm
lol
vitriol spewer (phil)
August 31st, 2012
2:50 pm
The collapse that so many keep saying isn’t underway continues tonight?
Or am I just spewing vitriol in suggesting it might be?
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:50 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan – I’m twisted already…….little humor.
Shaun
August 31st, 2012
2:51 pm
Can we trade Gattis, Terdoslavich and Cunningham in the same trade? I’d love to see it.
Efrim, well sometimes prospects exceed expectations and you can never know, so you aren’t allowed to discuss them until they’ve played in the majors. Then after a seaon or even just a couple of months you can make definitive judgements on what they’ll be their whole career. That’s the way it works, right?
Houston Astros might hire Baseball Prospectus prospects guy Kevin Goldstein
Good for him but I hope it’s not true, for selfish reasons. That could mean an end to the BP Up & In podcast and listening to Goldstein every week on it.
If you frequent this blog and don’t listen to Up & In, you are missing out.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
2:51 pm
Why is it we never run this defense analysis for other pitchers we are looking to acquire. Like Dempster, Maholm, etc.
You shouldn’t have to justify an Ace’s numbers. You shouldn’t The guy should be a clear cut Ace with no excuses. And if he isn’t a clear cut Ace he should not be considered for $15-$20 million for a team with a limited budget.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
2:51 pm
damn, that’s twisted thing doesn’t work…
Exactly. You can analyze every pitcher and say defense behind him wasn’t good or that he plays in a better division or that he is in the AL/NL, big market, small market.
Well then, if the defense doesn’t really matter when you’re comparing pitchers and such, then why does defense matter at all? The pitchers should be able to get outs no matter who’s behind them, even if it’s 7 Pastornicky’s, or God forbid, 7 Yuniesky Betancourts. Just get a bunch of hitters on your team. Screw defense.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:52 pm
Is Yuni Betancourt in the league any longer? I think he’s like the worst player I’ve seen with as many plate appearances as he has.
beekay
August 31st, 2012
2:52 pm
Hamels faked sickness to pitch against Braves. He would have pitched last series…. Phils hate us, thats why they used their starters againstus in the last series of the year. They let the Cards in by beating us and look where that got them. I sure hope we sweep their 3 aces!
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:53 pm
I agree that Greike is not worth near 20 mil, but somebody will likely give it to him. I just hope it ain’t our Bravies….
Shaun
August 31st, 2012
2:53 pm
ncscoots, Brian Kenny was a guest on the Grantland Network’s podcast with Jonah Keri a week ago or so. Very good stuff. He’s an interesting guy. They talked a lot about PEDs. Very good stuff.
Ken Stallings
August 31st, 2012
2:53 pm
ESPN had reported last night that Holladay would miss his scheduled start against the Braves.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:55 pm
well sometimes prospects exceed expectations and you can never know, so you aren’t allowed to discuss them until they’ve played in the majors. Then after a season or even just a couple of months you can make definitive judgements on what they’ll be their whole career. That’s the way it works, right?
Hah! More Friday Funny from Shaun. It does seem like this is the way it’s handled by many. But man, that’d make this stuff a lot easier……..heck, maybe I could even spring a job in a front office.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:55 pm
Let’s get Greinke who’s been an up, and down pitcher all year. Time for some offense next year.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:56 pm
Are we gonna get SWEPT? Is the world gonna end even earlier than the Mayans predicted?
chipontheroad
August 31st, 2012
2:56 pm
no line-up yet?
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:57 pm
Braves will find a way to lose with out Halladay….. Little humor
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2012
2:57 pm
while us bloaks come home to a sweaty sofa
Sweaty sofa?
Shaun
August 31st, 2012
2:57 pm
Why is it so hard to understand that team defense affects a pitcher’s ERA? It really shouldn’t be that controversial. If you think it is, you simply haven’t thought it through.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
2:58 pm
nolie – I hate to admit it, but we will could down down with the ship…..
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
2:58 pm
I agree that Greinke is not worth near 20 mil, but somebody will likely give it to him. I just hope it ain’t our Bravies….
I’d be pretty shocked. I know Bowman was beating that drum earlier in the year, but I just don;t see it. I see 20 million and change to make moves and I do not see them spending that on a pitcher with the holes they have in the outfield.
I’m down for using that cash for an impact player and not spreading it around like many suggest(although I’m okay with that too), but Bourn and Greinke are not these type of players to blow the bank on.
By the way, how can folks knock Greinke for around 20 million but not knock Bourn for around 20 million? I mean, if we’re looking at ERA+ and what not – Bourn’s OPS+ is friggin 90 for crying out loud. But please, let’s give him 18 million a year….
nolie
August 31st, 2012
2:59 pm
Sweaty sofa?…Jeffrey
maybe the bloak has a Sheila with round heels…
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
2:59 pm
He’s an interesting guy
Shaun, he’s a buffoon. One who talks too fast, offers little in the way of knowledge, and constantly chews the cud of the same dogma. MLBN had a chance to really, really forward the concepts of advanced baseball analysis and completely dropped the ball, both with the segment’s concept and its host. Sad, really.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
2:59 pm
“Why is it so hard to understand that team defense affects a pitcher’s ERA?”
It only affects on pitchers ERA. And why is it that no one wants to look at the weak divisions he has pitched in which affect ERA. He isn’t pitching against the NL East or AL East therefore his ERA is understated. Either way 3.80 is probably about right when you factor in his defense behind him and the ease of schedule he has pitched in.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:00 pm
Why is it so hard to understand that team defense affects a pitcher’s ERA? It really shouldn’t be that controversial. If you think it is, you simply haven’t thought it through.
Agreed. Forget looking at FIP for a moment for those who are scared of Fangraphs(maybe it’s the green in the website – does that blind folks?) – just think about it. Really use your brain and think it through.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:00 pm
Oh well, we put up with worse being Braves Fans, so I’m going to have to wheather the this bad Omen coming up. We can only keep Believing In The Imossilbe.
chipontheroad
August 31st, 2012
3:00 pm
We’ll be ok Ward sept brings wind for our sails
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:01 pm
of course it does some Shaun, but I agree with MF in that you should not have to justify an ace’s numbers. THey should be obvious to all in every aspect.
So no 20 mil from my stash for Greinke
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:01 pm
Shaun, he’s a buffoon. One who talks too fast, offers little in the way of knowledge, and constantly chews the cud of the same dogma. MLBN had a chance to really, really forward the concepts of advanced baseball analysis and completely dropped the ball, both with the segment’s concept and its host. Sad, really.
Boog. Get that man that job. He knows his sh!t and isn’t a buffoon. Love to see him run that show as he’s someone who understands statistical analysis and isn’t an ass.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:02 pm
This year for Christmas…….Braves should spend money on Bourn, and a big bat…….
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
3:02 pm
Shaun, he’s a buffoon.
Can’t believe you called him that!
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:02 pm
why? he is one
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
3:03 pm
maybe it’s the green in the website – does that blind folks?
Well, it’s pretty flippin’ ugly design, I’ll give them that.
Probably on purpose, to discourage ignorant BBWAA geezers from visiting too long.
Shaun
August 31st, 2012
3:03 pm
Speaking of podcast, on yesterday’s ESPN Baseball Today podcast Keith Law had a very nice rant. An emailer wrote in about “clutchiness” (the emailer’s word).
Law talked about how there is no evidence that clutch performance is repeatable. If it was a skill, a hitter would carry it with him from season to season, kind of like power hitters consistently post good power statistics from season to season. That doesn’t happen with clutch performance.
He also said that not only does no evidence exist in the data, if you argue that certain players step up in the clutch, you are essentially saying they are lazy and inept in non-clutch situations. Why don’t they step up all the time? Very reasonable stuff. Of course the other side of the certain-players-are-much-more-clutch-than-others debate isn’t convinced by evidence and reason.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:03 pm
My slogan……Believe In The Impossible, and we can hope the Braves make it?
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:03 pm
of course it does some Shaun, but I agree with MF in that you should not have to justify an ace’s numbers. THey should be obvious to all in every aspect.
So no 20 mil from my stash for Greinke
You might of missed it, but some folks were calling Greinke a “decent” #3 starter at best this afternoon. That was one oif the funnier things I had heard in a while.
But overall, yes, Greinke isn’t an ace – not an elite pitcher, imo.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
3:04 pm
So the division you pitch in doesn’t affect your ERA? So a guy with a 3.00 ERA in the AL East is worth the same as a guy with a 3.00 ERA in the NL West?
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
3:04 pm
I know, I know I took it out of context but I wanted to try my talents at spinning someones words.
That seems to go a long way on this blog. So how did I do?
cricket
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
what is going on? only 3 posts on this page about greinke?
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
why? he is one
Shame on you nolie.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
Bill James now says he is not so sure that there is no clutch, in fact he mentioned Chipper and a couple others as players who have changed his perception on that point somewhat
George_George
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
One final word on DOB, He said he did a lot in off-season. Baseball season including ST is 7 months, playoffs if we were in them another month. During the other 4 months all there is are owners winter meeting and GM’s winter meetings , they are both about three days long so say another week of work.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
Boog. Get that man that job.
Yes, Sciambi would be a good guy for that, and would at least bring a cultural difference to the segment (non-martyr category). Boog ain’t all that photogenic, though, and I don’t know if he has enough Q Factor to host.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:06 pm
I musta missed that Efrim, about as silly as calling him an ace IMO
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:06 pm
Greinke has a better FIP than Matt Cain, I’d bet, without looking. But I’d take Matt Cain in a heartbeat over Greinke. And Cain has morphed himself into one of those head scratchers – Jurrjens was Cain-lite for a little while, I think. Too bad he just couldn’t hold up.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
3:07 pm
I just don’t understand why soo many concessions are made for Greinke, but not for any other player we would acquire. I don’t want to make concessions for a pitcher who is getting paid like an Elite Ace.
Greinke may have had bad defense behind him which would raise his ERA, but he has also pitched in weak divisions which would also lower his ERA. At the end of the day the guy is a career 3.80 ERA. Not great and not worth $20 million. Not worth this much discussion.
And if Bourn is going to get $20 million he isn’t worth our discussion either. We can’t afford that. Max like $12-15 million for an elite player.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:07 pm
shame on me? a buffoon is just a fool, why should I be ashamed of thinking of him as one?
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:08 pm
I musta missed that Efrim, about as silly as calling him an ace IMO
Exactly. We now have people completely destroying the kid’s abilities because they don;’t want him as an Atlanta Brave. I mean, Wren and co. aren’t coming here to look at our comments to figure this stuff. Don’t need to knock Greinke and call him a decent #3 starter. That’s just absurd.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:09 pm
We need a LF with power, and sign Bourn…….
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:09 pm
are we talking about the same guy AT, or are you upset with the word itself?
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
nolie – Let Lew make those comments…..little humor
Heisenberg
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
Count me in on adding Mejia in September. If it is true there are only 39 on the current 40 man roster, then I am clueless as to why this would not be done. Unless Overbay will take that last spot. But Overbay would not have been necessary if Hinske was producing, so I would drop someone to make room for Mejia.
On another note, Braves were not the only team to suffer epic collapse. Look how Boston handled theirs and be glad Braves did not overreact like that. The Bosox will be bad to average for several years.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
Yes, Sciambi would be a good guy for that, and would at least bring a cultural difference to the segment (non-martyr category). Boog ain’t all that photogenic, though, and I don’t know if he has enough Q Factor to host.
He’s been doing baseball tonight on ESPN, I think. Once and a while. Good dude. Really wish he got the Sunday Night Baseball job over Dan Schulman – whose not terrible.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
DOB – Don’t waste your valuable time responding to those clueless jerks. The rest of us know and apprecieate how hard you and Carroll work, and what a great job you do. I hope you enjoy the little time off you do have, and look forward to your return.
cabravesfan
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
George_George-
Why do you even care so much? You really have no idea what DOB or anyone else does everyday, or in the off season and constantly complaining about it just makes you look ridiculous. You seem like a decent guy but your obsession with how much DOB works on this blog is beyond sad.
(And just to cover it, there is much more to the off season than you seem to think. Free agency, player signings, winter meetings, trades, fall league…)
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
3:11 pm
Bourn.. an elite player? Really?
vitriol spewer (phil)
August 31st, 2012
3:11 pm
A buffoon lives in a jungle…
George_George
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
3:05 pm
Boog. Get that man that job.
Yes, Sciambi would be a good guy for that, and would at least bring a cultural difference to the segment (non-martyr category). Boog ain’t all that photogenic, though, and I don’t know if he has enough Q Factor to host.
**********
I miss Boog, liked him the season he was here.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
Okay, I’m out. Peace all.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
Efrim – We need offense not pitching. Spend money on bat for LF.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
Efrim – We need offense not pitching. Spend money on bat for LF.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
Is Yuni Betancourt in the league any longer? I think he’s like the worst player I’ve seen with as many plate appearances as he has.
Free Agent…
I agree that Greinke is not worth near 20 mil, but somebody will likely give it to him. I just hope it ain’t our Bravies….
I don’t think he’ll get 20mil…. 14-17mil, Braves offer 15 and we can get him, imo. I must be excessively optimistic though…
By the way, how can folks knock Greinke for around 20 million but not knock Bourn for around 20 million?
THIS THIS THIS!
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
“Don’t need to knock Greinke and call him a decent #3 starter. That’s just absurd.”
So is the flipside of people calling him an Ace, Elite, or borderline #1. That is just as absurd. Also just as absurd to think that he has a shot at being an Atlanta Brave.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
I don’t remember seeing anybody seriously ripping DOB, raleigh. Maybe I missed it earlier
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
3:14 pm
nolie, we may not be talking about the same guy. I tried to spin it to make it look like ncscoots call Shaun a buffoon. Apparently it fell flat.
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:14 pm
well maybe George is semi-serious….
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
3:14 pm
George & ACE – Time for both of you to STFU about DOB. You are obviously clueless about what it takes to do his job. The more you say, the dumber you sound. And yes, George, this time I am getting personal. You act like DOB jilted your sister, or something.
cricket
August 31st, 2012
3:14 pm
And why is it that no one wants to look at the weak divisions he has pitched in which affect ERA.
peripherals that are currently in vogue are the only ones that matter. if the peripherals do not match the outcome, blame has to be placed on something, anything else.
once the peripherals regarding opponents’ quality are developed and are in vogue, instantly they will become valid. till that point, you are a fool who does not know how to use the brain.
and with this discussion that has sucked the joy out of baseball on the eve of long weekend for me, i leave for greener, dumber pastures..
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:15 pm
OK AT I get it now
nolie
August 31st, 2012
3:15 pm
That extra year I just picked up might be slowing the ol’ brain down at last….
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
3:16 pm
Really wish he got the Sunday Night Baseball job over Dan Schulman – whose not terrible.
You know who I’ve gotten kinda hot for this year? Costas and Kaat. Kaat is really insightful without getting in the way, knows how to relate a story, and like that. Costas is a solid if unspectacular PBP guy, but that man loves the game something awful, and it shows. They’ve really become my favorite pair.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
3:16 pm
nolie – Where you been? DOB has spent a good deal of this very blog defending himself…The usual insipid crap from George and ace about how much time DOB spends on “vacation”.
George_George
August 31st, 2012
3:17 pm
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
3:10 pm
Yes, Sciambi would be a good guy for that, and would at least bring a cultural difference to the segment (non-martyr category). Boog ain’t all that photogenic, though, and I don’t know if he has enough Q Factor to host.
He’s been doing baseball tonight on ESPN, I think. Once and a while. Good dude. Really wish he got the Sunday Night Baseball job over Dan Schulman – whose not terrible.
***************************
I miss Boog, I liked him the season he was here.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
3:18 pm
Don’t need to knock Greinke and call him a decent #3 starter. That’s just absurd.
Well, he’s a #2… and would be the best pitcher on our staff… Huddy’s aging, who knows what we get next year… After that, we have quite a few #3s and 4s.
In 2014, we will definitely need a #2. Don’t want to have to depend on a 39-40yr old Huddy, Beachy will just be coming back, and Minor/Medlen are unknown. They likely aren’t going to become #2s or 1s. Let’s get our #2 now. Greinke, Shields, Haren.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
3:18 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm
Is Yuni Betancourt in the league any longer? I think he’s like the worst player I’ve seen with as many plate appearances as he has.
Free Agent…
I agree that Greinke is not worth near 20 mil, but somebody will likely give it to him. I just hope it ain’t our Bravies….
“I don’t think he’ll get 20mil…. 14-17mil, Braves offer 15 and we can get him, imo. I must be excessively optimistic though…”
Nope. He’ll get around $20 million. 14-17 is ridiculous, and 15 from the Braves isn’t going to happen. Lowe got 15. Derek Lowe. And that was years ago.
“By the way, how can folks knock Greinke for around 20 million but not knock Bourn for around 20 million?”
Any player for around $20 is absurd….for the Braves. The Braves can’t afford that. Especially for a non-Pujols, Matt Kemp, kinda player.
Ward
August 31st, 2012
3:18 pm
DOB – Does great work, and Carroll, and we are lucky to have great reports, and be on this blog. Thanks guy’s for your hard work.
Heisenberg
August 31st, 2012
3:19 pm
Sunday night MLB is way more watchable now than it was with Miller/Morgan. Francona needs to go back to managing though. He has not been away from the game long enough to be objective.
coastalbrave
August 31st, 2012
3:19 pm
george, for God’s sake, please give it a break. Did you even read David’s comments to you? You are totally an idiot.