3:14 pm August 29, 2012, by David O'Brien
August 31st, 201211:18 am
TOBF, I’m alright with the money side of that equation just not real happy about the prospect cost.
Is Greinke worth $7-8 mil? No. Probably worth $13-14 mil. He’s a solid mid rotation pitcher. Sorry, but ERA DOES have to factor into it.
August 31st, 201211:19 am
I don’t see him as a strong number two. Maybe a decent number three.
“They’ve got to be shoved somewhere.”
doesn’t so stellar for delgado outing. 109 pitches in 7 innings.
August 31st, 201211:20 am
Efrim: Nolasco stat’s
6 years, 148 starts, 164 games. 4.50 ERA, 922 IP, 213 BB, 786 K, 93 ERA+, 1.289 WHIP, 9.5 H/9, 1.2 HR/9, 7.7 K/9
All this came in the NL East for Florida.
Lew you wanna go to the Braves game tonight with me and eat some honey nut cheerios?
August 31st, 201211:21 am
“if you can sweep, yes it is still possible, you have a strong chance to win the division”
Not really a strong chance. Right now, the Braves are six back in the loss column. That gains them three games. They would still have to pick up the other three games and as we just saw, even when the Nats lost 5 in a row, the Braves didn’t gain any ground.
Division is simply not happening. The best hope is that they can hold on to the #1 WC, host a game, have more than 35,000 show up at the Ted, and fight for their chance to play either Washington or Cincinnati (against whom they are a combined 6-15).
No thank you.
August 31st, 201211:22 am
Yep, let’s pay 18mil to a guy who isn’t a slugger… real bright. Not to mention, that since he is a speedster, his speed and stolen base numbers (the whole purpose of having him) will decline. Not to mention his range in CF going down….
Well Greinke’s ERA needs to be inflated upwards for pitching in 2 crappy divisions, right?
I don’t see him as a strong number two. Maybe a decent number three
WOW…. well who is good enough for us to get for our rotation? We will need a good #1-2 type pitcher.
August 31st, 201211:23 am
“have more than 35,000 show up at the Ted”
We could make it Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox, and Zack Greinke bobblehead night, that would get at least 40,000 it appears.
August 31st, 201211:24 am
MFin04 – Dude, I’d love to go to the game with you (cheerios notwithstanding), but I’ve got company coming for the weekend and the 1100 mile commute is a bit more than I can deal with
August 31st, 201211:25 am
Ah, okay… Agree with that.
It already is inflated upwards… and that includes the terrible defenses he’s had behind him.
His numbers are already near what the career ERAs of today’s top pitchers were when they were 28. He’s not a bad pitcher…. A good #2 at least.
OnlyBraves – They won’t be getting a starting pitcher. They have other more pressing needs to deal with and they already have pitching options.
August 31st, 201211:26 am
Division is simply not happening.
What does it really matter in the great scheme of things. You’ve still got to play the games, you’ve still got to play your hardest, you’ve still got to win.. WC or division winner.. whichever doesn’t matter to me. Just get there.
Yeh, I suppose the 700+ miles is a lot for me too. Maybe meet at Buffalo Wild Wings in the middle and watch the Cardinals and Nationals.
Or I’m sure the Yankees and Red Sox will be on TV. If not live an old replay.
August 31st, 201211:27 am
Actually, they already got their starting pitcher. It’s why they traded for Maholm – because he would be here next year, too.
I know it’s not what some of you want or what is on your Christmas wish list, but that’s they way it’s gonna be.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
August 31st, 201211:28 am
There are some piles being shoved here, but it isn’t money…
“It already is inflated upwards…”
Not enough. He pitched in the two worst divisions in all of baseball. Guy would be getting killed in the AL East or NL East.
August 31st, 201211:29 am
Our greatest pressing need in my opinion, should be a top flight starter. Then work from there, but I’d move on the starter early.
August 31st, 201211:31 am
hey mvprado14 in the house, the blog’s very own version of Tony Robbins.
“Our greatest pressing need in my opinion, should be a top flight starter.”
It should be a top flight leadoff man if Bourn is gone. We have enough starters and good ones at that.
August 31st, 201211:33 am
“You’ve still got to play the games, you’ve still got to play your hardest, you’ve still got to win.. WC or division winner.. whichever doesn’t matter to me. Just get there.”
Not exactly true this year. You win the division and lose your first playoff game, you still have a chance to win it all. You win the Wild Card and lose your only playoff game, well … it speaks for itself.
August 31st, 201211:35 am
We have enough starters
Yes because everyone knows that quantity equals quality. Good grief.
August 31st, 201211:38 am
Still comes down to playing the games… you win.. you win.. you lose.. you lose. It always comes down to that one game. Whether it’s the 1 game WC series or that 7th deciding game in the series or that 4th game sweep….. It’s still that one game!
August 31st, 201211:40 am
It should be a top flight leadoff man
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But didn’t we have just that when we collapsed last year and missed the playoff? And didn’t we have a greater winning percentage last year before we got this “top flight leadoff man” your referring too?
August 31st, 201211:41 am
OnlyBraves – They won’t be getting a starting pitcher. They have other more pressing needs to deal with and they already have pitching options…..Actually, they already got their starting pitcher. It’s why they traded for Maholm – because he would be here next year, too.
Still, we don’t have an ace. And we will need one in 2014…. actually, by then, we’ll need to replace 2 SP (Huddy and Maholm). Medlen and Minor should hold 2 of those other spots, someone will need to step up at take that 5th. I’d rather have a proven MLB pitcher to lead this staff, and have us only looking to replace 1 SP after next year.
August 31st, 201211:42 am
ah, toast … the board’s Lt. Kaffee
August 31st, 201211:45 am
It should be a top flight leadoff man if Bourn is gone.
Prado is a good lead-off hitter…
Yes because everyone knows that quantity equals quality. Good grief.
The more #3s and 4s we have, the better…. #1-2 pitchers are overrated…
And didn’t we have a greater winning percentage last year before we got this “top flight leadoff man” your referring too?
Indeed…. but that was more on not having quality pitching. We had options at pitcher, but no quality ones.
August 31st, 201211:47 am
OnlyBraves and Transplant – Their most pressing need next year is NOT a starter, it’s filling the outfield with a good lead off man and a good RH hitting LFer (or as discussed in rec daysd – a RH hitter who couild play either 3B or LF when Prado plays third instead of Francisco. They will also need to revamp their bench.
Starter is just not top of the list and as for 2014? With Hudson and Maholm gione, they will have their $15.5 million to work with and they will have another year of development under the belts of Minor, Teheran and Delgado and Beachy more than a year and a half from his TJ surgery. Likely they will have anothr one or two of Gilmartin and a few others about ready for prime time.
August 31st, 201211:49 am
While I’m not sold on Grienke being a ACE pitcher, I still think it’s a safer bet that he’s better than anyone we have right now that we can count on over a full season.
August 31st, 201211:50 am
And if not a good lead man in CF, preferring to go with Prado instead – at least an excellent defensive CFer.
August 31st, 201211:51 am
Lew, That’s why I suggested we sign Sanchez. He could play 3rd when Juan isn’t or he could spell Uggla at 2nd and possibly spell Freeman at first. He’s a right handed hitter and shouldn’t require multible years to sign.
August 31st, 201211:53 am
Ropund and round we go…
What IS a “true ACE” …and…how many teams actually have one? How many non-megga payroll teams have a true ACE that they didn’t produce? Off the top of my head, I don’t know 1 mid/small payroll team that bought an established ace. That’s because a $$$ commitment of that level doesn’t make sense.
There are NO true Aces available as FA for 2013. I’m not sure there are any available through the trade market. I’m pretty sure they would cost too much for the Braves, in light of our other needs, and limitations.
Greinke is probably a #2. We can argue about that, but I don’t want to. AND I don’t think we should pay ace $$$$ for a #2, when we have other viable options, and other needs.
at least an excellent defensive CFer
I’d be alright with that, along with a top flight pitcher.
I think we need a good workhorse pitcher who will give us 200+ innings for the next few years.
August 31st, 201211:54 am
Which Sanchez is that? I must have missed that post.
TOBF – Beachy will be back in 2014
August 31st, 201211:56 am
August 31st, 201211:58 am
We already have one to many Freddie’s.
August 31st, 201211:59 am
real question marks
anyone else in the minors.
That rotation would look a whole lot more solid with a top flight guy at the top.
We signed Derek Lowe at 36 years old… I’d hope we’d sign or trade for someone younger. To be honest it would be nice to see Hanson just settle in and atleast be a guy who can give us innings. But he struggles to give us 5 innings every start just about. At this point I would take a Tommy Hanson that gives us 200+ innings with a ERA around 3.9-4.2 in the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation.
August 31st, 201212:00 pm
You can never have enough Freddies.
Just the name alone strikes fear in our opponent.
August 31st, 201212:01 pm
Transplant – Re: Sanchez. I have no problem with him as a player – especially in a platoon role – he’s a solid infielder and has a pretty good bat, if not a lot of power.
Only things that concern me are a. He has not played more than 11 games the past several years – has he had injuries? Would they continue to hamper his availability? And b. He makes $6 mil a year now. One could assume he’ll get a raise – would his production be worth $7 mil or more a year?
It is almost September and just like last August the collapse has began. Want be as brutal as 2011 since the Braves aren’t as far ahead. This team like last year’s group has no sense of urgency. They just don’t seem to have the ability to reach down deep and pull out wins when they need them.
But if we could somehow get James Shields he would fit the bill. Get him outta that AL East and he’ll have a ERA around 3.5 and give us 200+ innings which he has done for the past 5 seasons.
August 31st, 201212:02 pm
VBF, I too would like to see Hanson show some resemblence of his past self.
More than 111 games the past few years.
Good morning all
Wonder why the strange start time for Sundays game?
August 31st, 201212:03 pm
you can never have enough Freddies but you can have one too many Fredis.
August 31st, 201212:04 pm
Question I asked about availability of “true aces” in all of MLB has gone unanswered. Truth is that very few teams have “true aces”. Those that do either have big payrolls or grew them internally. That’s the fact.
We ALL want the Braves to be the best…reality says that Ted Turner has left the building…and he isn’t comming back.
This team like last year’s group has no sense of urgency.
Awright! An “urgency” post officially marking the beginning of the stretch run, LOL.
Hey, it ain’t spring until the swallows return to Capistrano, is it? Same thing.
Lew, I don’t think his pay is going to go up.. mainly for the reasons you stated above. As far as an everyday starter, I don’t think I’d look to do that but I think his RH bat would be a great option at 3rd as some type of platoon with Juan.
August 31st, 201212:05 pm
George. Is DOB off again this weekend?
Well, the need for a top line starter in Atlanta is somewhat akin to transportation up here in Vermont during the winter.
It would be wonderful if I could afford a nice, new four wheel drive vehicle, but I’m pretty sure that this winter I’ll have to settle for the best snow tires I can afford.
Everyone can have a different definition of a ACE pitcher.
August 31st, 201212:06 pm
and as far as power goes, I dont think his power is any less accomplished than Prado’s at 3rd. Although, with Juan as a platoon partner there’d be enough power produced over the course of a season I would think.
August 31st, 201212:07 pm
With Hudson and Maholm gione, they will have their $15.5 million to work with and they will have another year of development under the belts of Minor, Teheran and Delgado and Beachy more than a year and a half from his TJ surgery
So 5 young ‘uns for the 2014 rotation? Don’t know if I could get on board with that…. Beachy, Medlen, Minor, 1 of Teheran/Delgado/Gilmartin, and Graham…
August 31st, 201212:08 pm
Hudson, Medlen, Maholm, Minor and Beachy when he returns is a good rotation.
Transplant – Even if his salary remained the same, that’s still a fair amount to pay a platoon player – especially one that misses time. For $4 mil a year, I’d say grab him while they can.
August 31st, 201212:09 pm
A pitcher gives you 200+ innings every season but has over a 4 ERA, guess he’s not a ACE
Hey I produce a 3.8 ERA but my SO/9, BB/9, HR/9 are amazing but still not an ACE
Hey I win 15+ games a season but I get a ton of run support, guess I’m not a ACE
Hey I produced a ERA of 2.3 but I don’t strike batter’s out, guess I’m not a ACE
Hey all my numbers are amazing but I only throw a 89 MPH fastball, guess I’m not a ACE
Yep, that’s the problem. No urgency. Don’t want to win badly enough. No emotion. Won’t “dig deep”. etc., etc.
All that inside information must be spot on…there’s probably a credible source in the clubhouse verifying the above.
Major bigtime roll of eyes.
Waffle House or Bust
August 31st, 201212:10 pm
Pull Hanson from the rotation. He is negative energy at the moment. Go with who is hot instead of names on the jersey. I can respect Fredi’s loyalty in June but not September.
August 31st, 201212:12 pm
RBF: THanks, I knew I forgot someone.
As would I.
AT @ 11:59 Agree wholeheartedly.
raleighbravefan, but you can look at a team’s pitching strength and probably guess where that team ranks. You take a top 5 team and your probably going to find a top 5 staff. That’s not necessarily true with offense, and that pretty much holds true for most sports. The better a team is at limiting an opposing competitor, the greater the odds that that team will be successful over the course of a season.
August 31st, 2012
George. Is DOB off again this weekend?
He could well be off, after all he has worked 6 games in a row, that could be a record for him.
August 31st, 201212:14 pm
OnlyBraves – I said they might spend what the have on Hudson and Maholm on another pitcher to go along ith Minor, Medlen, Beachy and one of the kids. But if Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin or Graham look ready this year, I’d bet they don’t go and get anyone and spend the cash on another piece of the puzzle.
With the exception of 08 when they absolutely HAD to revamp the rotation, they just haven’t spent on starting pitching, preferring instead to go with all the kids they’ve been saving for the last few years. They just aren’t going to all of a sudden change the approach they’ve stuck with all this time.
AT – If we aren’t a “top 5 team”, we’re damn close.
August 31st, 201212:15 pm
“if Teheran, Delgado, Gilmartin or Graham look ready this year,”
If Teheran or Delgado aren’t ready this year…are they really ever going to be ready!?!
August 31st, 201212:16 pm
For $4 mil a year, I’d say grab him while they can.
Yes, that would be a no brainer in my book. Great value.
That 5:30PM start SUNDAY is weird.
George and ACE – Time to give the “DOB vacation” routine a rest. I wasn’t funny to begin with.
August 31st, 201212:17 pm
We actually have 4 -# 2 to #3 pitchers. Minor, Medlen, Hudson, Maholm and then Hanson however you want to classify him. But we need an ACE. Right now we stand a real good chance of starting every series, when they have enough time to slot the pitchers, of starting every series down 0 to 1.
We had a chance to trade for James Shields, Zack Greinke or Josh Johnson. The price must not have been right because to get far an ace is necessary.
Dang, so you’re saying we’ll have to settle for scraps? A rotation made up of #3s and 4s?
August 31st, 201212:18 pm
I just love typing a 3 paragraph comment and then it doesn’t go threw and is gone forever.
August 31st, 201212:19 pm
I (RBF) wasn’t funny to begin with.
August 31st, 201212:21 pm
and then Hanson however you want to classify him
Garbage? A worse than #5? A AAA pitcher?
key largo – James Shields, ACE?…well, maybe. Don’t know what TB wanted for him
Greinke…no ace…probably a #2
Josh Johnson…has been hurt…probably no longer an ace
Garbage? A worse than #5? A AAA pitcher? (sarcasm)
He’s been bad for over a year , but he has to be a 5, I guess.
August 31st, 201212:23 pm
Lew, at one time we did spend big on SP and kind of got away from that.. which is exactly why I think we went into decline there for a while. And I think they’ve kinda have begun to look back at what made them successful and want to go back to that ideology. Which is exactly why we heard how much Wren wanted to acquire Greinke before the trade deadline and once he was moved, looked and almost got Demspter.
Those were the 2 biggest names out there this year that were definitely available. And I think returning to that style or philosophy is the way to do. Specially since the days of HGH and steroids are over.
August 31st, 201212:24 pm
We’ll have enough money to bring in 1 high paid player. But I think Wren will work hard in the trade market. Will likely fill our needs with a few above average to good players instead of grabbing 1 great to elite player.
Regardless next season we will look worst “on paper”. Just no way we’ll be able to replace Bourn and Chipper and the impact they brought. But we can still bring in affordable player who will produce solid numbers compared to there salaries.
We can likely find a CF who can match Bourn’s OBP but not the impact he makes as our leadoff man. Also it will be hard to find someone as great a defender. Might as well say were losing 30+ stolen bases too.
They just aren’t going to all of a sudden change the approach they’ve stuck with all this time.
They might…. Frank Wren changed course and traded one of his “top” arms….. he hadn’t done that before, he was so adamantly against it.
They’ll be ready soon…… I hope. If I remember correctly, doesn’t Delgado have to be on the MLB roster by 2014 since he will be out of options then? And Teheran is 2015, I believe?
I just love typing a 3 paragraph comment and then it doesn’t go threw and is gone forever
Glad I’m not the only one that happens too.
August 31st, 201212:27 pm
Might as well say were losing 30+ stolen bases too.
I think most of that will have to do with our lack of aggressiveness on the bases.
The Braves got great in the ’90s (though I wasn’t around or aware of it) starting with the signing of Maddux. They brought up Glavine and Smoltz (acquired from a sell-high trade) and made one of the top rotations ever.
We haven’t had to sell in a while, thanks to Frank’s great work, but I do think that adding a top arm via trade or Free Agency to go along with our good young arms could give us another great rotation.
We have a better chance of resigning Bourn than Greinke. About the same percent chance of winning the division.
August 31st, 201212:30 pm
Dan Steinberg @dcsportsbog
Bryce Harper said “you know” 23 times in a 57-second post-game interview last night. Legend.
Retweeted by robneyer
theonlybravesfan The Braves got great in the ’90s (though I wasn’t around or aware of it) starting with the signing of Maddux.
false. the braves were great by the time maddux got there.
August 31st, 201212:31 pm
I really don’t think there’s reason to trade anyone from our minors to fill empty spots on our roster next year. And I think that would be most beneficial too, we’ve got a lot of talent down there that could very well fill most of those needs in a year or two anyways. That’s why I think it would be best to just sign someone like Greinke or Haren(if he’s available), then fill our bench needs by adding Sanchez and resigning Johnson.
“Bryce Harper said “you know” 23 times in a 57-second post-game ”
That’s a once in a generation type of post-game.
August 31st, 201212:32 pm
We need to get it going and win 23 to 26 games I believe
About the same percent chance of winning the division.
Really? How did that work out for ya last year? An amazingly short memory. Don’t forget to learn from your past.
August 31st, 201212:34 pm
Is Greinke worth $7-8 mil? No. Probably worth $13-14 mil.
Which is about what he’ll get paid, in my opinion.
Yes, you are correct. My mistake Maddux came in 94, Braves had already gone to a few WS…
August 31st, 201212:35 pm
“Really? How did that work out for ya last year? An amazingly short memory. Don’t forget to learn from your past.”
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