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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,940 comments Add your comment
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:16 am
Dude – you’ve been had – I’ve been trying to push your buttons all along.
I don;’t understand, why would you do this? Also, why do you think I’ve “been had”? Are you right next to me………
just checked, I don’t see you Lew………
wait a second, just checked under the desk and in the file cabinets……
You’re not here. And that makes sense as I’m not eating cheerios like you said. You have zero idea as to what I’m “feeling”, man.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
10:16 am
Efrim – We’re good…always were.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:17 am
I’d like to see Greinke at the top of our rotation, I think it would give us a solid component for the forseeable furture allowing our young guys to develop without the stress of thinking they need to be the number one guy. We’ve seen guys struggle for that very issue, trying to be something they aren’t.
But on the side note, if LA does sign Greinke in the offseason there more than likely would be one other guy that might come at a lower rate with as much fan fare. Odds are, with Greinke, LA would allow Haren to walk. He’s another guy that might be worth looking at to fill that void at the top of our rotation.
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:18 am
DOWN ON THE FARM
GWINNETT
G-Men double-header swept 1-0 in the first and 3-2 in the nightcap.
First game
RHSP RANDALL DELGADO [L 4-3, 4.06 ERA] 7.0 complete game, 7 H, 1 R/ER, 2 BB, 5 SO
Fine outing. No lift from the four-hit offense however, and all hits generated from the 7-9 hitters.
CF LUIS DURANGO [.293 BA] 2-2, 1 CS [16], 1 Outfield Assist [Home Plate].
2B BRIAN FRIDAY [.215 BA] 1-2.
C JOSE YEPEZ [.266 BA] 1-3, 1 SO.
Second game
Not quite as well pitched as the first game but still a good outing.
RHSP JULIO TEHERAN [L 7-9, 5.08 ERA] 6.1 IP, 7 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 6 SO.
Too bad he has to take the collar because of an unearned run……of his own 1 E [4, throwing].
RHRP ‘AussieANDY’ RUSSELL [1.91 ERA] 0.2 IP, pristine, 2 SO..
ANDREW’s rise through the system this season has been meteoric and spectacular. Promo’d from LYNCHBURG to start the season, he blew through MISSISSIPPI, and has firmly established himself in AAA. Two earned over his last ten in GWINNETT caused only by walks. Tighten up one notch on the control, and have a AAAA pitcher at least. I wonder what the clubhouse is like in LAWRENCEVILLE with two Aussies in it.
Lead-off CF LUIS DURANGO [.293 BA] 1-3.
RF FELIX PIE [.284 BA] 2-3, 2 2B [24], 1 RBI [48], 1 Outfield Assist [3B].
DH JOSH KROEGER [.270 BA] 1-2, 1 R, 1 BB.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:18 am
OnlyBRaves – Yeah, definitely a spot on comparison of a Kid in his early 20’s who had made less than 25 starts at that point of his career and a veteran pitcher of ten or so years who has failed to follow up a truly amazing year (also with a terrible team with poor defense) after three or four seasons. with nothing vaguely similar and who is about to make a fortune based on that one year.
Anders
August 31st, 2012
10:18 am
Come on Efrim – Throw the Wagner jab! Remember how much Lew told us he sucked until Bobby and Wren went to visit him down on his WV farm to convince him to join the Bravos and all of a sudden Wags was born? What an awesome dude he really was. Perfect fit for the Capital city of the south.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:19 am
Nice finish for Delgado.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:20 am
If a guy has a career 3.80 ERA, and has had that the last 3 years for 3 different teams, at some point you have to say…the guy is a 3.80 ERA guy. Not paying him $20 million for that.
On the flipside, EOF doesn’t give up runs. I think sometimes people lose sight of the goal of baseball. It isn’t strikeout rates, walk rates, hit rates, etc. It is the ability to keep the other team from scoring runs. ERA.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:21 am
Yeah, definitely a spot on comparison of a Kid in his early 20’s who had made less than 25 starts at that point of his career and a veteran pitcher of ten or so years who has failed to follow up a truly amazing year (also with a terrible team with poor defense) after three or four seasons. with nothing vaguely similar and who is about to make a fortune based on that one year.
Well, you’re argument defending Minor was similar to what I’m saying now about Greinke, so…..
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:21 am
Angels and Brewers are #11 and #12 in errors made this year, just barely above league avg. 11th-12th in fielding % obviously.
Milwauke is 25th in “total zone total fielding runs above average” , being -33 runs below average. Milwaukee’s defenders average being -2 runs below average for a season of play.
The Angels are better, but Greinke has only been there for 7 starts. They’re 5th in “total zone total fielding runs above average”, being 32 runs above average. No where near the Braves who were 78 above avg. Their defenders are 4 runs above average for a season of play.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:22 am
richbrave, did you find anything out on that Ryan Butcher?
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:22 am
Yes, Efrim – You’re right – I don’t know you or what your diet might or might not be. I’m sooooooo ashamed.
Maybe I should just lock myself away and scourge myself for my misguided attempt at levity.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:22 am
On the flipside, EOF doesn’t give up runs. I think sometimes people lose sight of the goal of baseball. It isn’t strikeout rates, walk rates, hit rates, etc. It is the ability to keep the other team from scoring runs. ERA.
Totally. I mean, Jurrjens looked so solid because of that ERA from those two initial starts – I wonder why he collapsed like a house of cards? Maybe because we all saw that he couldn’t miss bats and that his magic show wasn’t going to last?
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:23 am
Might or might not be on at the moment. Wouldn’t want there to be any confusion.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
10:23 am
Ok, Anders…You’re a good dude, at least for a Mutts fan, but we don’t need you coming on here and trying to stir things up. We’re perfectly capable of doing that ourselves.
Murph
August 31st, 2012
10:23 am
We should all thank richbrave for his “Down on the Farm” reports… without him many of us would have no idea how our prospects are doing.
Thanks richbrave. I and many others appreciate the effort.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:23 am
So, by looking at those stats, it’s amazing that Greinke put up a 3.44 ERA in Milwaukee…. that team was terrible at fielding the ball. He should be better in LAA, and seems to be doing so now. He’d be even better if he had ATLs defense behind him.
So, before calling him a 3.82 ERA pitcher, do know the stats. He’s better than his ERA. Point. Blank. Period.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
10:23 am
Odds are, with Greinke, LA would allow Haren to walk. He’s another guy that might be worth looking at to fill that void at the top of our rotation.
Sold. Make it so.
Truly, I’m less concerned about the name on the jersey than I am about the arm inside it. I don’t remember ever thinking “Tim Hudson would be a good pickup” when they traded for him; he probably wasn’t even on the radar. I’d be fine with picking up somebody that no one’s thought of, frankly.
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:24 am
LEW-EFRIM:
Heh! GREINKE sux….there’s the scientific analysis of it all.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:25 am
When you have to make excuses for defense behind a guy, I’d rather not have the guy on my staff.
If he truly is elite, he can pitch out of jams because he has the stuff to pitch out of jams.
On the other hand, if the Braves defense is elite, then we should just get above average ground ball pitchers, under pay them and win games. Hmm Maholm and Hudson, brilliant.
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:26 am
Murph:
No comments from the peanut gallery. This is a sagacious and learned dispute over blog-turf.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:26 am
I’m hoping for Greinke or Haren to sport a Braves uni next season while anchoring our young rotation.
Anders
August 31st, 2012
10:27 am
I call bull on Lew. Someone has to say it. Lame exit when Efrim had him on the ropes.
He was just kidding? Yeah right.
How’s that Raleighbravefan? {:
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:27 am
Oh shyt:
Yes, Murph please…….more comments about ….anything?
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
10:27 am
MFin @10:20 – Agree
Hugo Z Hackenbush
August 31st, 2012
10:27 am
Would it be ungracious of me to admit that I smirked slightly when I saw that Furcal might be done for the season?
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:27 am
“He’s better than his ERA. Point. Blank. Period.”
Nope. Then show me it. Show me a year he had a great defense behind him. Was it his only successful year? Guy has been in the league 9 years, and had one good season. And if the guy already has mental toughness issues and can’t pitch out of jams because of bad defense I don’t want him on my team.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:28 am
When you have to make excuses for defense behind a guy, I’d rather not have the guy on my staff.
If he truly is elite, he can pitch out of jams because he has the stuff to pitch out of jams.
And that’s okay. I’m not saying Greinke is an elite pitcher and is worth 20+ million – pretty much just saying that he’s better than his 3.80 ERA indicates. I know that’s tough to swallow for some….
Murph
August 31st, 2012
10:28 am
LOL, you were saying rich?
Well, that’s the last time I try to be nice to someone on the blog. Where’s Ward? Now I’m feeling the need to punch somebody.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
10:30 am
I hope all the pitch-to-contact lovers hold that affection to your bosom during the playoffs, LOL.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:30 am
Guy has been in the league 9 years, and had one good season
Muffin man logic continues.
Folks, show me all his other seasons and they they weren’t good. All the other 8 of em. They all have to be less than good. Please. I’d love to see it.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:30 am
Oh Lord – I’m agreeing with MFin04. Never saw the rabbit hole we just fell down.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:31 am
So I went ahead and took out Greinke’s worst season and his best season and anyone want to guess what his career ERA was in those 7 season?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:31 am
Heh! GREINKE sux….there’s the scientific analysis of it all.
Greinke rocks, you mean…
Thanks richbrave for those Farm Reports… love them.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:32 am
Oh Lord – I’m agreeing with MFin04. Never saw the rabbit hole we just fell down.
Oh man. Please, show me that all his other 8 seasons weren’t good. It won’t take you long – here, I’ll friggin link it:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/5883/zack-greinke
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:33 am
And yet Minor was not viewed as better than HIS ERA despite his youth and inexperience.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:34 am
Since when is a 3.82 career ERA good for an Elite pitcher who is going to make $20 million a year.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:34 am
And I’m down for Dan Haren in a Braves uni next year. Just that I don;t think the Angels will decline the option. It;s a 3.5 million buyout. I don;t think they’ll pay him that to have him not pitch for them in 2013. I’d love to have him here though.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
10:34 am
richbrave @10:26 –
And many thanks for the “down on the farm” reports. Great info.
John Leonard
August 31st, 2012
10:36 am
The Braves have real HOMER scorekeepers.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:36 am
Efrim, what’s your thoughts on Haren if he was to hit the FA market? Somewhere between 10 to 13 a year?
And I think a guy that could definitely bring value to our bench or possibly a starting job/rover would be Freddy Sanchez. We could use him and Juan at 3rd allowing us to keep Prado in LF which would mean CF is the only spot left to fill. Not to mention Sanchez can play multible positions.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:36 am
Totally. I mean, Jurrjens looked so solid because of that ERA from those two initial starts – I wonder why he collapsed like a house of cards? Maybe because we all saw that he couldn’t miss bats and that his magic show wasn’t going to last?
SHhh…. JJ is the beast mean, he’s so awesome… let’s lock him up. There’s our ace… the 89mph FB throwing, No strikeout man Jurrjens. Yep.
If he truly is elite, he can pitch out of jams because he has the stuff to pitch out of jams.
As far as I know, pitchers have defenders behind them for a reason. They don’t play by themself. He can’t strike out every batter.
. Show me a year he had a great defense behind him. Was it his only successful year?
Never has… this Angels defense is the best one he’s ever had, and they’re not even all that great.
I hope all the pitch-to-contact lovers hold that affection to your bosom during the playoffs, LOL.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:36 am
Elite:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/verlaju01.shtml
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:37 am
I hope all the pitch-to-contact lovers hold that affection to your bosom during the playoffs, LOL.
They don’t get that, scoots. Strikeouts are the devil because they lead to high pitch counts and tired pitchers. That’s why the Justin Verlander, Stephen Strasburg and Felix Hernandez’s of the world aren’t as good as the sinkerballers like Jake Westbrook, etc.
DAP
August 31st, 2012
10:37 am
efrim Jurrjens looked so solid because of that ERA from those two initial starts – I wonder why he collapsed like a house of cards?
jurrjens collapse was reflected in his ERA.
i guess i dont disagree with you in principle. grienke is a good pitcher. i dont think he is better than people think, because he is about to get $20mil per year, probably.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:38 am
Efrim, what’s your thoughts on Haren if he was to hit the FA market? Somewhere between 10 to 13 a year?
Tough to figure because of the down year – back issues have wrecked his season. But he’s usually been real solid.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:40 am
jurrjens collapse was reflected in his ERA.
And I think some called it happening because of the weak peripherals.
By the way, still think it would be a “stupid, idiotic” move to non-tender Jair Jurrjens rather than risk paying him $6-7 million for 2013?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:40 am
Roy Halladay had a career 3.70 ERA when he was 28… pitched 7 seasons in the bigs. He’s considered to be one of the best pitchers in the Majors…
Just sayin’…
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:41 am
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:22 am
richbrave, did you find anything out on that Ryan Butcher?
Yes.AT.
Originally a NATS prospect, he’s been back and forth between the CUBS and BRAVES farm systems since leaving the WASHINGTON organization after 2008.
Really pretty non-descript WHIP’s until 2012 in MISSISSIPPI where he put up excellent relief numbers. 35 G, W 3-1, 19 BB – 50 SO, 1.31 ERA, 1.04 WHIP. promo’s to GWINNETT,
He’s been savaged over his past few relief appearances – 8 total – 11.57 ERA, 3.429 WHIP. The book is out on him and not very flattering. I’d say he’s back to the drawing board this off-season to re-invent some of his game.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:41 am
“I hope all the pitch-to-contact lovers hold that affection to your bosom during the playoffs”
Give me contact all day long. Or whatever the heck Tim Hudson, Paul Maholm, and Kris Medlen are. Oh and Craig Kimbrel, give me some of that too. I love Kimbrel!
Hugo Z Hackenbush
August 31st, 2012
10:43 am
So Verlander is getting 20.1 mil next season, and thus, Greinke is worth…20?
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
10:43 am
Elite:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/verlaju01.shtml
Best pitcher in the sport. That the only guy worth 20+ million a year? Lack of understanding of the free agent market.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:43 am
A pitcher that can create outs by using a higher rate of “swings and misses” definitely has a higher value than a pitcher that creates out by throwing to contact.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:43 am
Verlander is generational talent, dude…
DAP
August 31st, 2012
10:44 am
efrim still think it would be a “stupid, idiotic” move to non-tender Jair Jurrjens rather than risk paying him $6-7 million for 2013?
of course not. i said at the time it depended on his health and performance.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:44 am
Halladay can pitch in the playoffs. What about poor Grienke?
Halladay in the playoffs. Career 2.37 ERA. 7 2/3 innings per start.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:45 am
They don’t get that, scoots. Strikeouts are the devil because they lead to high pitch counts and tired pitchers.
And injured ones too… it’s too risky
Oh and Craig Kimbrel, give me some of that too. I love Kimbrel!
A pitcher like Maholm would be better for the closer job… it’s so much better to pitch to contact. Screw strikeouts.
richbrave
August 31st, 2012
10:45 am
Murph
August 31st, 2012
10:28 am
LOL, you were saying rich?
:….Well, that’s the last time I try to be nice to someone on the blog. Where’s Ward? Now I’m feeling the need to punch somebody….”
Aw come on MURPH. Don’t be thata’ way. I WAS only kidding….really! You know I don’t wax hot over this stuff. I need nice….please.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:45 am
MFin04, you do realize that Medlen is a pretty good KO pitcher himself, right? Not merely a “throw to contact pitcher”.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:49 am
Halladay can pitch in the playoffs. What about poor Grienke?
Halladay in the playoffs. Career 2.37 ERA. 7 2/3 innings per start.
5 starts vs. 3, Greinke gets 2 good playoff starts, his ERA will be near a 2.90 to 3.00
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:49 am
“Verlander is generational talent”
Greinke isn’t. Therefore shouldn’t be paid like one or considered one.
Are we talking Bryce Harper generational talent?
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:49 am
I’d love to have a strikout oriented pitcher on the staff – it would be a great contrast to all the “to contact” pitchers we have. I just don’t see strikeouts as being the overirding criterion for a pitcher to be good. I’d much rather have a to contact pitcher in the rotation that kept runs from scoiring to a strikeout pitcher who gives up more runs.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
10:52 am
Efrim and scoots and many others – Power pitchers…They are GREAT!…Hanson was going to be one, Teheran may still be. We would all love to have a couple. You guys act like we disrespect them…the elite don’t even have a big problem with high pitch counts. WE ALL (OR MOST OF US) GET THAT! We also get that, other than homegrown, or low oevel trades, (ie Smoltz) They are VERY EXPENSIVE. Mid market teams have to prioitize.
I will add that you guys are so in love with big guys that throw really hard, that you disreguard the value of a really good pitch to contact ground ball guy. Maddux was extreme example…many others are very good, with plenty of value. And some of them actually win a lot of games.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:52 am
richbrave, thanks for the update.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
10:52 am
Right now, I’m less concerned about this offseason than I am about this weekend.
Need the Cards to man up and take a couple, and the Braves to win or sweep their series. I really, really don’t want to see the team more than four down in the loss column on Labor Day.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:52 am
Dan Haren: Career 3.61 ERA by age 28 season
James Shields :Career 4.25 ERA by age 28 season
Greinke career ERA is pretty close to the those of some of the top pitchers in the game by age 28… Don’t see what’s to knock on him.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:54 am
RBF: I’m not in love with power pitchers, I’m just “sick” of all these 88mph FBs that are thrown to contact, and get pummeled as a result. Look at Tommy, for example. A power pitcher is needed for contrast, and definitely in the playoffs. Swing-and-miss stuff is how you get out of jams.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:55 am
“They don’t get that, scoots. Strikeouts are the devil because they lead to high pitch counts and tired pitchers.”
I’ve probably been jaded too much by Tommy Hanson, everyone loved him when he was striking guys out, but he never had low pitch counts and couldn’t go deep consistently.
Strikeouts aren’t bad, but they aren’t the end all be all. Some guys don’t strike people out, doesn’t mean they aren’t elite or great pitchers.
Tim Hudson is a by far superior pitcher to Greinke, and pitches to contact and can go complete games without striking people out.
DAP
August 31st, 2012
10:55 am
actually, even greg maddux, and tim glavine, in their best years, struck out a fair share of batters. maddux has over 3300 career Ks.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
10:56 am
Well, as to Sheilds – he DOES pitch a good bit at Fenway, at the Trop, at Yankee Stadium, in Toronto and at Camden Yards – all pretty extreme hitters parks in the most offenive dominated division in MLB. That alone would boost anyone’s ERA.
Haren? Decent pitcher, but hardly elite and hardly worth what Greinke will almost certainly get this winter.
DAP
August 31st, 2012
10:56 am
theonlybravesfan Greinke career ERA is pretty close to the those of some of the top pitchers in the game by age 28… Don’t see what’s to knock on him.
its the $$$. thats it.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
10:57 am
Greinke isn’t. Therefore shouldn’t be paid like one or considered one.
I’m not considering him one…. he won’t have a career 3.29 ERA by age 28 like Verlander did… but he’ll be near the ERAs of other top pitchers, and he does have the pitches to do very well. Swing-and-miss stuff. It’s important.
And for the record, I have said that I don’t think Greinke gets 20mil…. 14-17mil max. I don’t think the big-market teams go for him, and there aren’t enough other teams that’d need him and are places he’d like to go to jack up his price. In my opinion.
MVPrado14
August 31st, 2012
10:57 am
“Need the Cards to man up and take a couple, and the Braves to win or sweep their series”
Not going to win the division. If the Braves want to host the 1 gamer, they need widen the gap between themselves and St Louis
DAP
August 31st, 2012
10:58 am
dan haren has been an ace in his career. he is having an off year, but he is dang good, and would be our best pitcher next year, probably. id target him if i were wren.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
10:58 am
“I’d much rather have a to contact pitcher in the rotation that kept runs from scoring to a strikeout pitcher who gives up more runs.”
Nope. Wrong. K/9 is more important than ERA. Runs don’t matter.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
10:58 am
I’ll stick by my belief we’d be better served to sign Greinke or even possibly Haren over the offseason than if we were to trade our batch of good young prospects.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
10:59 am
I will add that you guys are so in love with big guys that throw really hard, that you disreguard the value of a really good pitch to contact ground ball guy.
Maybe. I don’t undervalue Tim Hudson, though, for example. ‘Course, he’s got about eleven pitches he can throw, which adds to his ability to disrupt timing.
“Feel” pitchers who rely on location and making hitters put balls in play off pitchers’ strikes have less margin for error, is all. High-velo guys with wipe-out secondary pitches can make more mistakes with less damage. But a good pitcher is a good pitcher, regardless of approach, and I’d certainly never dispute that.
George Stein
August 31st, 2012
11:00 am
Pitching to contact in itself isn’t bad. But if that’s your strategy, it means you give almost no walks and pitch down in the zone to avoid the long ball. Most pitchers that can’t (or won’t) strike a guy out can’t do the other things required to be an effective pitch-to-contact guy.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:00 am
strikeout pitcher who gives up more runs
More runs than who? Who are you referring to in this statement?
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
11:02 am
“Not going to win the division. If the Braves want to host the 1 gamer, they need widen the gap between themselves and St Louis”
Yep, win Nationals win. Division was done after the Padres series. Gotta hope we can hang out to the wild card. And preferably a home game.
“And for the record, I have said that I don’t think Greinke gets 20mil…. 14-17mil max.”
I know you have, but I think that is just so that you can hold out for hope that the Braves can sign him for that amount. If Braves can get him for $14 a year, I’d think about it.
But I really think he is going to be near $20 million if not over depending on the years. As for Bourn, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is near $20 million as well.
I don’t see the Braves even going into negotiations with either of them. They might say they will…but…
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
11:02 am
I’m out for a while. Actually, this horse was dead about 2 hours ago.
Some love/overvalue? Greinke, some don’t love/undervalue? him. Some us us will prove to be right. It won’t be resolved today. I’m with scoots…let’s worry about this weekend. Let’s beat the Phillies. I’m not so sure if it’s better to try to catch Nats, or get Cards off our backs. Either way, it’s win-win.
DAP
August 31st, 2012
11:02 am
heres a comparison to grienke to consider…maybe im way off. javier vazquez. lots off innings, good K numbers, good years and bad years ERA wise.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
11:05 am
What DAP said – That’s the crux of the entire argument. Greinke is just going to make way more than hes worth. He’s a decent pitcher who will be paid as if he’s much better than decent. Haren won’t. Shields won’t.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:07 am
I’d take Greinke at 20 a yr or Bourn at 17 or 18 a year.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
11:07 am
I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular. It wasn’t necessary to site an example to a concept statement.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
11:07 am
I’ll stick by my belief we’d be better served to sign Greinke or even possibly Haren over the offseason than if we were to trade our batch of good young prospects.
Agree… I don’t want to trade (too many of) our pitchers to gain 1 pitcher…. esp. since we need to get 2 Bats as well.
raleighbravefan
August 31st, 2012
11:08 am
AT @11:07 – I’m sure you would.
MFin04
August 31st, 2012
11:09 am
“He’s a decent pitcher who will be paid as if he’s much better than decent.”
Yep and will be paid at THAT rate for a long time. Greinke for sure isn’t coming to the Braves, Bourn probably isn’t either. Probably Red Sox, Phillies, Nationals.
Gotta win 2 of 3 vs Halladay and two lefties. Gonna be tough.
ncscoots
August 31st, 2012
11:09 am
let’s worry about this weekend. Let’s beat the Phillies. I’m not so sure if it’s better to try to catch Nats, or get Cards off our backs.
I’m sure for both of us. It’s a two-team wild-card, so no one is gonna be off their backs, if they don’t win the division.
Anyone who thinks four back with a month to go is insurmountable ain’t paying attention. Of course, those same folks think the Braves lead in the wild card is constantly in jeopardy, LOL. Go figure.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:10 am
Shields would be a whole another argument cause he’d come at a money price and a prospect price. And I’d just assume avoid that prospect price.
I think Haren would be the idea candidate if he was allowed to walk. And that’s a big “IF”, but it could happen if they were to sign Greinke.
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
11:11 am
heres a comparison to grienke to consider…maybe im way off. javier vazquez. lots off innings, good K numbers, good years and bad years ERA wise.
To a much lesser extent, add Ricky Nolasco to that mix.
He’s a decent pitcher who will be paid as if he’s much better than decent
If “decent” is a strong #2 starter……..
toast
August 31st, 2012
11:12 am
division was done after the padre series???? ah say what? granted they have huge uphill challenge and nats certainly in great position. still do we not play them in mid sept at turner? gee if you can sweep, yes it is still possible, you have a strong chance to win the division
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:12 am
TOBF, as far as 2 bats, I think we’d be well served to sign Sanchez. Good depth. Basically, I’d be spending most of my time trying to find a replacement CF.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
August 31st, 2012
11:14 am
So you’ve got eighty chips in your pile, and you’re shoving twenty of them towards the dealer based on your faith in the continued greatness of Zack Greinke. Hmm…
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
11:15 am
heres a comparison to grienke to consider…maybe im way off. javier vazquez. lots off innings, good K numbers, good years and bad years ERA wise.
Javier Vasquez thru age 28: 4.28 ERA, 256 starts (8 season), 19 Complete Games, 1643 IP, 437 BB, 1418 K, 104 ERA+, 1.272 WHIP, 9.1 H/9 1.2 HR/9, 7.8 K/9
Greinke thru age 28 (and his season isn’t done yet): 3.82 ERA, 225 starts (9 season, but he pitched out of the ‘pen in 2007) 12 Complete Games, 1449 IP, 370 BB, 1294 K, 113 ERA+, 1.256 WHIP, 9.0 H/9, 0.9 HR/9, 8.0 K/9
Greinke put up most of his stats in the AL (7 years with KC) while Vasquez spent 7 of his 8 years in the NL. (Montreal)
Efrim
August 31st, 2012
11:15 am
What would be reasonable for Greinke? $7-8 million a year? Love to hear from some of the folks who think he’s “decent”.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:15 am
To be honest, I wouldn’t be completely against Cummingham working the CF position, if and only if we were able to strengthen our staff. A better staff means less runs allowed meaning less runs required.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 31st, 2012
11:16 am
Shields would be a whole another argument cause he’d come at a money price and a prospect price
Shields contract is affordable… 9mil next year and 12 mil in 2014, I believe.
Lew
August 31st, 2012
11:16 am
I don’t see him as a strong number two. Maybe a decent number three.
Arkansas Transplant
August 31st, 2012
11:16 am
So you’ve got eighty chips in your pile, and you’re shoving
They’ve got to be shoved somewhere.