On Chipper’s bobblehead, injuries, 3,000 hits and HOF

The official Chipper Jones tribute night is Sept. 28 against the Mets, the Friday opener of his final home series. But tonight’s game at Turner Field could have the feel of a sendoff preview of sorts, since it’s Chipper bobblehead night – the last of those – and there’s a pretty good chance that the retiring third baseman could also reach another milestone of sorts.

Young Chipper missed an entire season at the outset of his career for the first of his six knee surgeries, which was the first of two ACL reconstructions and rehabs he'd endure.

Young Chipper missed an entire season at the outset of his career for the first of his six knee surgeries, which was the first of two ACL reconstructions and rehabs he'd endure.

He needs two hits to reach 2,700, and Jones is 6-for-14 with three homers against tonight’s San Diego starter, ex-Braves righty Jason Marquis. Chipper would be the 65th player in major league history with 2,700 hits, and the sixth switch-hitter.

Someone asked me this morning on Twitter if I thought Chipper would have 3,000 hits were it not for his two ACL knee surgeries. And I said yes, since the first of those surgeries cost him an entire season at the start of his career, and the other cost him nearly two months at the end of the 2010 season, that injury coming when he was playing his best ball since winning the batting title in ’08.

Of course, there are many other great players who likewise would have reached certain standards, and some likely would have made the Hall of Fame, if not for major injuries that disrupted or prematurely ended their careers.

Just to cite a couple of obvious examples: Ken Griffey Jr. finished with 2,781 hits, 630 homers and 1,836 RBIs, and I’d say if he only had half the injuries he endured in the second half of his career he’d have retired with well over 3,000 hits, 700 homers and 2,000 RBIs.

Mickey Mantle hit .298 with 346 doubles, 536 homers and 1,509 RBIs in 18 seasons, despite major knee problems that contributed to his drastically reduced production after age 30. Joe DiMaggio had many foot and heel problems during his career.

Mantle and others didn’t benefit from the advances in knee surgery that has helped Chipper to continue producing through six – SIX! – knee surgeries, including four arthroscopic procedures that usually have only slowed him for a matter of weeks, and might have greatly prolonged the careers of great players from decades ago.

Not to mention the fact that DiMaggio and the great Ted Williams each missed three seasons in the prime of their careers for military service.

My point is, yes, Chipper’s numbers could be far better if not for the knee surgeries, as well as all the other nagging injuries he’s had in the last part of his career, after he’d played in 157 or more games in six out of seven seasons through 2002 (plus 156 games in 2000 and 153 in 2003). But so could many other baseball luminaries have produced even greater numbers had they not missed multiple seasons due to injuries or military service, many times while they were still in their 20’s.

Besides, the body of work that Chipper has produced stands on its own. Unlike fellow Braves icon Dale Murphy, whose overall numbers suffered because he played through so many injuries in the latter part of his career, Chipper have been able to maintain a .300/.400/.500 slash line (.304 average, .402 OBP and .532 slugging percentage, to be exact) and keep adding to his doubles, homers and RBIs and climbing the ladder on various lists for overall hitting and switch-hitting. He’s got 464 homers and 1,611 RBIs.

He’s a future Hall of Famer, obviously. And I really believe he’ll be selected on the first ballot, though some others think that might depend on who else is lingering on the ballot five years from now and perhaps siphoning off some potential Chipper votes. I don’t think it’ll matter and believe he’ll get in on the first ballot.

Compare Chipper’s overall numbers with those of switch-hitter Eddie Murray (.287/.359/.476, 504 homers, 1,917 RBIs), who got in easily on the first ballot with 85.3 percent of the votes (75 percent is required for election to the HOF).

40-year-old Chipper has been able to maintain his .300/.400/.500 slash line while adding homers and RBIs to his resume.

40-year-old Chipper has been able to maintain his .300/.400/.500 slash line while adding homers and RBIs to his resume.

Maybe some voters will put more emphasis on Murray’s homers and RBIs and not on the overall numbers, or maybe others on the respective ballots when Murray was elected and when Chipper goes on the ballot will affect the outcome. But personally, I think Jones goes in on the first ballot. And if he doesn’t, he won’t have to wait long after that.

But for tonight, it’s Chipper bobblehead night at the ‘yard. Enjoy the game, and good luck getting a bobblhead if you’re going.

By the way, in his past 36 games (since June 26), Chipper has hit .352 (45-for-128) with 14 doubles, five homers, 18 walks, 24 RBIs, a .432 OBP and .578 slugging percentage.

• McCann’s shoulder: He will never make excuses, and Brian McCann tried to downplay his shoulder injury last week when we talked to him about it in New York before conceding that “it’s there” when he swings and that it causes quite a bit of discomfort.

Anyone who’s had a subluxation of the shoulder can attest to how difficult it must be to play major league baseball with such an injury, which is technically a partial, temporary dislocation of the shoulder. When he pulls back loading his swing, McCann feels it frequently.

He got a cortisone shot during the recent road trip and he and the Braves hoped that would take care of the discomfort for a while. But McCann’s numbers at the plate seem to indicate that hasn’t happen.

McCann was 20-for-65 (.308) with two doubles, nine homers, a .754 slugging percentage and 21 RBIs in 18 games from July 5 to July 31. Since then, he’s 4-for-34 (.118) with no extra-base hits, one RBI and a .118 slugging percentage in 11 games.

Fortunately for the Braves, others have been picking up the slack offensively, and the pitching staff has been making three to five runs more than enough most nights lately. But the situation with McCann’s shoulder has got to be a concern, for the stretch drive and beyond. David Ross is the best backup catcher in baseball, but 35-year-old Ross is the first to tell you that he excels in a part-time role.

• Tonight’s matchup: It’s Kris Medlen, making his fourth start since moving from the ‘pen, against ex-Braves righty Jason Marquis of the Padres.

Marquis is 5-2 with a 4.03 ERA in his past eight starts, including a two-hit shutout at Pittsburgh on Saturday. He’s 3-4 with a 7.27 ERA in eight career starts vs. Braves, but 3-2 with a 3.49 ERA in his past five. The only time he faced them since 2009 was last season on May 10, when he allowed three runs and seven hits in 7-1/3 innings and got the win.

The Braves are 16-1 in Medlen’s 17 starts going back to the 2010 season, when he moved from the bullpen to the rotation and excelled before season-ending Tommy John surgery. They’ve won 14 consecutive games that he’s started.

Medlen since July 1: 1.09 ERA and .193 opponents’ average in 13 games (three starts), with one homer, eight walks and 29 strikeouts in 33 innings. Against the Padres, he’s 0-2 with an 8.10 ERA in four relief appearances, all during the 2009-2010 seasons.

Uggla’s back-to-back HRs: When Dan Uggla hit his line-drive three-run homer to the left-field seats Wednesday night, it gave him homers in back-to-back games for the first time since Sept. 2-3 against the Dodgers.

The second baseman has hit .250 with a .364 OBP, .500 slugging percentage, eight extra-base hits and 16 RBIs in 16 games since July 29, and he’s 9-for-27 (.333) with three homers and nine RBIs in his past eight games.

Now, some rather staggering numbers. Between those back-to-back homer games against the Dodgers in September and his current eight-game hot streak, here’s what Uggla did at the plate: 129 games, .208 average, 16 homers, .335 OBP and .360 slugging percentage (.695 OPS) with 153 strikeouts in 456 at-bats.

• Etc.

Juan Francisco’s past 15 games: .433 (13-for-30) with four doubles, two homers, nine RBIs, .500 OBP, .767 slugging. That includes 12-for-24 with four doubles, two homers, seven RBIs in the seven games in which he’s batted more than once in that span….

Jason Heyward’s past 50 games: .292 with 22 extra-base hits (11 homers), 29 RBIs, 40 runs, .364 OBP, .526 slugging (.890 OPS).

• OK, let’s close this with a tune from The Raveonettes, which you can hear by clicking here.

267px-The_Raveonettes_2_by_David_Shankbone

“DEAD SOUND” by The Raveonettes

Hear the sound of falling love
As I wonder where you are
Hits the ground with a dead sound
Know you ain’t got far

Too stupid and sissy like
To say that you want out
You make the eyes of a million girls
And think you’ll make them shout

Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound

I used to take you on every time
That sparkle turned to black
I used to drag you through my streets
When you came crawling back

Your cheap words that you bought on sale
Won’t help you through tonight
You make the eyes of a million girls
And think that’s what they like

Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound

And now you go through a million girls
And try to pick what’s right
When nigtfall comes and you’re still alone
Do you feel it deep inside

It’s oh so cold on the other side
Where thoughts can turn you down
You make the eyes of a million girls
But I see no girl around

Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound
Dead sound

– by David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog

1,334 comments Add your comment

Venice Jim

August 16th, 2012
2:55 pm

Thanks, DOB!!!

TennesseePaul

August 16th, 2012
2:59 pm

Thanks for the work DOB.

GO BRAVES!!

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:00 pm

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief.

But the situation with McCann’s shoulder has got to be a concern, for the stretch drive and beyond.

Crap. Always makes me nervous when somebody with credibility writes something like this…

JC Brave

August 16th, 2012
3:01 pm

Chipper will hit 2 or 3 bombs tonight!

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:04 pm

Take this season away, and Milky is a fat slob that can’t play OF and barely hits .260 to save his life.

so, 2011 never happened? i knew it was a bad bad dream..

addy

August 16th, 2012
3:05 pm

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:06 pm

Nah, I’m just tragically negative. 14 postseasons of failures left me with too many traumas….JCBrave

that’s a you problem, most fans of any other team would consider 14 years like that as baseball bliss

flange1

August 16th, 2012
3:07 pm

Thanks for the new blog DOB.

Let’s kick some rear tonite Bravos!

Bama Braves

August 16th, 2012
3:08 pm

MacCan Is Not Done…….He Is Washed Up!……..Just Saying

JC Boscan III

August 16th, 2012
3:08 pm

It would seem wise to split the C position 50-50 or 60-40 until McCann’s healthier. His swing has looked pathetic the last couple of games. Playing hurt (and ineffectively) just hurts the team…….

DAP

August 16th, 2012
3:10 pm

i had a thought last week, that i think uggla will end up with the most home runs on the team. i didnt say it out loud, but ill say it now.

uggla currently has 15 homers, 4 behind team leader jason heyward. i dont think uggla will hit 30, but i do think he will end up with the most homers on the team.

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:11 pm

finally, a sane voice coming to defense -

Melky’s BABIP this year was over 40 points higher than the career bests from Bonds, Palmeiro, or McGwire. I doubt the PEDs explain his year.—
(@keithlaw) August 15, 2012

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

Saying he hit .300, Chipper would have gotten 3,000 hits with about 800-850 additional at-bats. That’s a season and a half for a healthy player.

JC Brave

August 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

Yeah, a bliss. Remarkable. It was amazing. 14 straight Division Titles and then another appareance in 2010 was all great. But all of that also brought heartbreaks, as every year except for 1995, ended in defeat.

And I clearly said “me”. Making it obvious that it is indeed a ME problem.

Jimmy

August 16th, 2012
3:14 pm

“Playing hurt (and ineffectively) just hurts the team…….”

Amen to that. I’ve moved from “concerned” to ” worried” with Mac. Worried about 2012 Mac and who our catcher in the future is going to be.
Honestly, at this point, an extention is not even a thought.

I rather have him play less, and be more productive than what we are getting right now..

Supes

August 16th, 2012
3:14 pm

Hopefully McCann can get going…if he’s not hitting I don’t think we can go far in the playoffs (if we get there)

I realize Uggla has hit back to back HR’s but this may turn out to be his lowest RBI and HR year (statistically speaking)…how is that big time $ looking now?

Chipper Jones is a 1st ballot HOF (yes I’m biased)

If Kris Medlen continues his good work, Braves pick up another W tonight.

One last thought…if Christian Betancourt can shore up his offensive game next season in the minor leagues…and if Brian McCann continues to “have these nagging injuries”…one has to wonder what happens in 2013…just saying folks.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:14 pm

Two observations.

Is anyone REALLY surprised at what Milky did!? It speaks to character, or a lack thereof, that this fat blithering idiot literally stole both an All Star MVP award, as well as a season of baseball where his illegal stupidity (as if HE was not going to get CAUGHT!) directly affected division races and team fortunes with what amounts to a bogus season.

What does it REALLY say to those of you who are quick to say that Barry Bonds would’ve still been an HOF’er had he not been on the clear and cream, I offer this PRIME example, as well as recent seasons of HR drop-off’s, as a definitive Exhibit A on what PED’s have done to skew records and player legacies. Bond’s career trajectory took off vertically the minute he signed with San Fran and became the physical mutant that would steal the most hallowed of baseball records under severely and vulgar false pretenses.

Take this season away, and Milky is a fat slob that can’t play OF and barely hits .260 to save his life. Take away the steroids, and Barry Bonds doesn’t even hit HALF the home runs he did, thus making him the most marginal of HOF candidates.

How does Ken Griffey Jr. REALLY look now in retrospect!

If this PRIME example of what PED’s has done to destroy baseball records in the past 20 years does not resonate with reasonable, thinking people who love baseball…

Then there’s nothing I can say to that without being vulgar myself.

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:16 pm

Standard lineup tonight…McCann 7th.

Venice Jim

August 16th, 2012
3:16 pm

Atlanta Braves ‏@Braves
Tonight’s lineup vs. SD (7:10, SPSO/680AM/BRN): Bourn 8 Prado 7 Heyward 9 Jones 5 Freeman 3 Uggla 4 McCann 2 Janish 6 Medlen 1

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:17 pm

Take this season away, and Milky is a fat slob that can’t play OF and barely hits .260 to save his life.

so, 2011 never happened? i knew it was a bad bad dream…

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:18 pm

sorry but anybody who does not realize at this point that PEDS make you a better hitter, is smoking the wrong stuff Keith ;)

Heisenberg

August 16th, 2012
3:18 pm

Chipper 1st ballot HoF. Milk dud…..not so much.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:19 pm

cricket: maybe he started last year – who really knows. That said, baseball is a game of norms. Go exceedingly above the norm – like 2011 & this season – and…

You get the picture.

PDOG

August 16th, 2012
3:20 pm

I would like to see the Rev get a start or two. I think with Hanson pitching Friday it would be a good day for him to get a start.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:20 pm

Amen, nolie! :-)

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:20 pm

The minute they shut down Strassburg, the gNats will fall apart. September will loom and destroy them. They will wilt under the pressure of true playoff drive baseball.

That is my “Jeanne Dixon” on them.

David O'Brien

August 16th, 2012
3:22 pm

BRAVES LINEUP

Bourn cf
Prado lf
Heyward rf
Jones 3B
Freeman 1b
Uggla 2b
McCann c
Janish ss
Medlen p

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:23 pm

OK, so…maybe Ross will start against the lefty tomorrow…??

Murph

August 16th, 2012
3:23 pm

Why not send McCann to the DL if he’s hurting like he obviously is?? Makes zero sense to me. A shoulder injury isn’t going to magically get better overnight. He’s going to feel it every time he swings a bat until he’s taken out of the lineup for more than just a couple days.

I’d rather have him getting his shoulder healed up on the DL while Ross is in, raking like only Ross can do. Bring him back, healthy and rested, just in time for the big push in September.

I just don’t get playing hurt when it’s obvious that the player is not going to do anything to help the team win.

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:23 pm

This year, in all games NOT started by Stephen Strasburg, the Nationals are 56-38, a 96-win pace for 162 games.

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:24 pm

Still no Pastornicky… :( Janish has got to be exhausted.

BMac’s in there today… he badly needs a good night at the plate

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:25 pm

How many problems can possibly go wrong with McCann? His ankle, his eyes, his shoulder. Guy seems to always be getting hurt. Not sure you can rely on him much longer as your 1st or 2nd best bat. The guy really was supposed to be the face of the franchise and best bat in the lineup after Chipper. Now he is hitting 7th and it looks like we’d be better off with David Ross at the plate and behind the plate. Kinda sad.

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:25 pm

why would anyone want Rev get a start? what if he makes an error or can’t reach few balls that Janish picks up and cost braves a game? let him pinch hit, keep him away from defense.

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:25 pm

Nice lineup tonight…. Love it.

Arkansas Transplant

August 16th, 2012
3:26 pm

Let Bourn go at season’s end and send Salcedo and Zeke to the Giants for Gary Brown.

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:26 pm

Not sure you can rely on him much longer as your 1st or 2nd best bat.

They don’t…they haven’t all year…and they won’t next year, either.

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:26 pm

i still have a hard time believing that they will shut him down completely

Arkansas Transplant

August 16th, 2012
3:26 pm

Then sign Geinke.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:28 pm

Brian from SC – But they pay him like they do. That’s the problem. You can’t pay a guy for production that just isn’t there.

Steve From Dalton

August 16th, 2012
3:28 pm

would not be bad idea to DL B Mac and have him heathly for the chance at the playoffs.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:29 pm

McCann’s on base is getting dangerously close to Alex Gonzalez territory in the sub .300’s.

Jimmy

August 16th, 2012
3:30 pm

“he badly needs a good night at the plate”

He’s never had a bad night at the plate. Oh, you mean home plate. Gottcha now.

McFann – I expect you are right about tomorrow’s game.

I really hope Heap can get a hit or two tonight. And Uggs keeps it up.
Most of all, I hope to see a Braves victory.

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:30 pm

Since the end of June Greinke’s ERA has gone up an entire run. I’m glad we are not paying him what he gets for that kinda production

DS1

August 16th, 2012
3:31 pm

Gary Brown to the Giants is like Heyward was to the Braves a few years back. Their rising star; and untouchable.

And I DO remember you clamoring for A Jackson last winter.

McCann’s shoulder woes worry me. Shoulder pain is extremely difficult to deal with as we learned from Heyward last year.

Ross is a GREAT backup, but he gets exposed when he plays too regularly. He’d be OK for a DL stint.

DOB

With this shoulder issue for Mac, does it get cured by rest? Will it be ongoing? Is there a procedure to alleviate the problem?

Thanks.

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:32 pm

Brian from SC – But they pay him like they do. That’s the problem. You can’t pay a guy for production that just isn’t there.

He signed that contract years ago…every year up til this one, he was worth well over what he was being paid. Meanwhile, they’re paying their best hitters about $500,000 this year…it’s just the way things work in baseball.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:32 pm

A DL stint right now and a few weeks of Ross with Boscan backing up may just be what BMac needs.

Catcher. It’s a rat bastard of all positions.

SteveinFXBG

August 16th, 2012
3:33 pm

Melky’s BABIP this year is .379, which is very high. Derek Jeter’s career BABIP is .355. That’s just ridiculous.

Brian from SC

August 16th, 2012
3:35 pm

McCann’s numbers behind his numbers aren’t bad…except his BABIP is .228. He’s not striking out more, he’s hitting homers at the same frequency…the line drives and ground balls just aren’t finding as many holes right now.

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:36 pm

MFin: That’s not a good thing…

McCann’s shoulder woes worry me. Shoulder pain is extremely difficult to deal with as we learned from Heyward last year.

Ross is a GREAT backup, but he gets exposed when he plays too regularly. He’d be OK for a DL stint.

His shoulder worries me too… he’s having the JHey syndrome. You’re forgetting about Gattis too, he can play catcher if BMac is DL’d :mrgreen:

PDOG

August 16th, 2012
3:36 pm

Hanson is a fly ball pitcher, I would not start the Rev with Hudson on the mound. You can’t live each day saying what if.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:36 pm

“Ross is a GREAT backup, but he gets exposed when he plays too regularly”

Yeh, well at this point McCann is exposed and can’t get on base to save his life, so we mine as well test the theory of Ross “getting exposed”. At least we will have better defense behind the plate. And I’m sure Ross can put up a .300 on base percentage “getting exposed”.

Shaun

August 16th, 2012
3:37 pm

While we’re on Chipper and the Hall of Fame, check this out. This is the very definition of cherry-picking stats to make a point:

http://barrybloom.mlblogs.com/2012/04/26/chipper-on-bubble-for-hall-of-fame/

I wouldn’t be all that shocked if there are enough voters out there who think like this to keep Chipper off on the first ballot. Hopefully that’s not the case.

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:37 pm

Meanwhile, they’re paying their best hitters about $500,000 this year…it’s just the way things work in baseball.

people here basically want to pay players they dislike on per AB / per pitch basis and want to overpay their favorite players, never mind the budget constraints.

DS1

August 16th, 2012
3:38 pm

TOBF

Excuse me! I forgot about “The Great Gattis-by” being in the wings.

:wink:

But seriously, his hitting in AA has dropped off a bit.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:39 pm

“the line drives and ground balls just aren’t finding as many holes right now.”

I was hoping someone would bring up his BABIP. Which is really a myth with McCann. This year in MLB there has been a record amount of shifts (ESPN the Mag article, check it out). Some guys are adjusting and going the other way, some aren’t. I would suspect that McCann’s BABIP has more to do with him hitting into the shift than being unlucky. Gotta adapt.

Venice Jim

August 16th, 2012
3:40 pm

Tom Boswell noted yesterday that the Nats’ bullpen was beginning to show some signs of wear. At a quick glance, it appears that their 4 main relievers have pitched (on average) at least 25% more than those of the Braves…

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:41 pm

I don’t know if rest can cure his shoulder…. subluxation, it’s partly out of the joint. I’m sure the Braves docs know what they’re doing, but it doesn’t look too good.

What is the treatment?

The pain from a shoulder subluxation is treated with ice packs for 20 to 30 minutes, 3 to 4 times a day. You may take an anti-inflammatory medication, such as ibuprofen. You may need to avoid painful activities until the pain improves. The most important treatment for the looseness in the shoulder that causes a subluxation is shoulder strengthening exercises. Shoulders that continue to sublux and cause painful sublux and cause painful symptoms may require surgery to correct the joint looseness.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:41 pm

The good news for the Braves is that we have been forced to pitch EOF and Kimbrel and Venters in games that the Braves were leading by more than 3 runs. That is ALWAYS a good sign.

Arkansas Transplant

August 16th, 2012
3:42 pm

DS1, There was talks of Brown being moved in the Pence deal.

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

Sounds good VJ…. I’d love a good Nats collapse…

Lew

August 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

The Mac Hating Olympics are hereby convenened. Some people jut can’t see past the blackness that covers their vision when contemplating him.

Actually I don’t recall anyone putting that radical shift on Mac recently.

timthebrave

August 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

DOB, Drive by Truckers playing at Georgia Theatre in Athens next week….Go Braves!

Shaun

August 16th, 2012
3:44 pm

McCann’s BABIP may very well be a combination of shoulder issues and the shift.

It’s not always as simple as going the other way to beat the shift. Pitchers are also pitching him in such a way so that it’s hard to go the other way. I’m pretty sure teams don’t just shift without having a pitching strategy to the shift.

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:44 pm

there are a lot of folks who think Chipper is marginal HOF., not just marginal first rounder, including several voters. Hope I’m still around to see what will happen

timthebrave

August 16th, 2012
3:45 pm

If Uggla can continue to hit I will feel a lot better about our chances for making the playoffs/world series

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:45 pm

TOBF @ 3:41—

Sweet mother of Abraham Lincoln!… :(

DS1

August 16th, 2012
3:46 pm

MFin04

We are in agreement on the McCann/Ross situation. The Braves know what’s best, or at least know better than you or I.

All I was saying is that when Ross plays regularly, his performance suffers. And I’d guess his defensive skills might also be affected somewhat. If you went back and checked his numbers when Mac was on the DL last year, he probably hit similarly to the way Mac is hitting injured.

So, my guess is the Braves will play it by ear until he either gets better, or worse.

TOBF

That don’t sound too good.

:sad:

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:46 pm

that’s true Shaun, they do have such a strategy

Venice Jim

August 16th, 2012
3:47 pm

Oops – that did not include Drew Storen because he’s way down at the bottom of the list…but, still works for the other guys…

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:47 pm

Lew Some people jut can’t see past the blackness that covers their vision when contemplating him.

True that. Dude could save 100 babies from drowning, but they’d be angry because he didn’t save 101…

Actually I don’t recall anyone putting that radical shift on Mac recently.

There always seem to be people on base…

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:47 pm

chipper gets in 1st round, Bank On It

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:48 pm

Shaun @ 3:44—

I think I gotta agree with you on that one…

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:49 pm

If Ross is going to produce better numbers than McCann is right now, and McCann could possibly get health in 2-4 weeks or being DLed. Then this is a no brainer. But of course McCann will look like a wuss if he doesn’t play through it. Heck maybe even Chipper will call him out like Heyward. :roll:

But Braves would be better off getting McCann healthy than having him get on base at a sub .300 rate. Ross can easily put up those numbers. And I have yet to see Ross get exposed as a Brave.

Efrim

August 16th, 2012
3:49 pm

Ben (CT)

Do you buy Sean Gilmartin being anything more than a #5 starter?

Klaw (3:05 PM)

I guess he could be a four. I don’t see more than that – not a league-average starter.

League average starters are #3’s?

Shaun

August 16th, 2012
3:50 pm

When a player as good as McCann struggles unexpectedly the first place to look is injury, especially when there is a smoking gun.

Efrim

August 16th, 2012
3:50 pm

CC (Atlanta)

Is Tommy Hanson’s shoulder shot?

Klaw (3:04 PM)

I’m not his doctor, but from here I would say yes, it probably is.

DS1

August 16th, 2012
3:50 pm

AT

Not from the Giants camp. Only the pundants were saying he could have been included. He is their super prospect.

Kinda like Wil Myers of KC.

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:51 pm

3 is in the middle therefore it must be average Efrim…

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:51 pm

“Actually I don’t recall anyone putting that radical shift on Mac recently.”

Yeh, well when a guy can’t put the ball in play or hit anything with any authority you don’t really need a shift. But yes, they haven’t really showed any shifts with him up lately on TV.

He is look pretty bad at the plate, almost like Dan Uggla, Alex Gonzalez automatic out territory when they are going bad.

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:53 pm

While BMac was DL’d—Ross’ numbers from July 27th–August 13th, 2011 (16 games, 14 starts)

.241 AVG/.293 OBP/.333 SLG; 2 doubles, 1 homer, 5 RBI, 4 BB, 18 K’s, 2 SH, 1 ROE, and 2 GDP

Shaun

August 16th, 2012
3:53 pm

League average starters are #3’s?

Efrim, I would say so, generally. All though it’s a little more nuanced and complicated than that. Durability and innings matter a great deal so a guy could be a little below average but if he’s consistently pitching into the 7th in most of his outing, I would say he’s a #3, ahead of possibly ahead of a pitcher who is a little better than average but only goes 5 or 6 innings in most starts.

DS1

August 16th, 2012
3:53 pm

nolie

And we hope you will be here for the festivities too!

:wink:

cricket

August 16th, 2012
3:54 pm

League average starters are #3’s?

KLaw is never wrong. 5 starters rotation, avg. = 3 ….

Morris Code

August 16th, 2012
3:55 pm

Morris Code

August 16th, 2012
3:55 pm

TommyP

August 16th, 2012
3:55 pm

I believe DOB is not only on the money in that Chipper is a 1st ballot HOF but I believe he’ll get over 90% of the votes.

1) His numbers are Hall-worthy.
2) His place in history as a switch-hitter is Hall-worthy.
3) His place as the premier everyday-hitter on the Braves historic run is Hall-worthy.
4) His nickname is legendary. (don’t underestimate the power of this one)

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
3:56 pm

McCann’s numbers the last 2 weeks…..129 .250 .129 .379

Guess we should put Ross in there. ;)

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:56 pm

now that strikes me as strange, I never thought of it as any other way than that a #3 starter is pretty much league average. kinda like an Excellent, good, average, mediocre, poor kinda thingy

McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:

August 16th, 2012
3:57 pm

MFin04 Guess we should put Ross in there.

Not the worst idea I ever heard…

nolie

August 16th, 2012
3:57 pm

Chipper is my favorite all-time player, but I would bet quite a bit that he does not get over 90% of the votes

timthebrave

August 16th, 2012
3:58 pm

No player has ever gotten 100% of vote for Hall of Fame….If Babe Ruth can only get 95% of the votes what does that say about the voters. Some of those fools should lose their voting privileges. Chipper will get in but it will be close the first year

DS1

August 16th, 2012
4:01 pm

MFin04

During the time Mac was on the DL last year, Ross hit .241 w/ 1 homer and 5 RBI in 58 AB’s and a .343 OBP. His average and power dropped off, but he still was taking a walk from time to time. But a drop off none the less. Maybe not as bad as I had remembered.

WOW!! I can say I misremembered, huh!!

:wink:

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
4:01 pm

If we don’t need McCann’s production to win, which clearly we don’t at this point if he is batting 7th. Mine as well let Ross bat in his familiar 7th spot and let McCann hopefully get well and work on his shoulder.

I hate this belief that playing through injuries is a good idea. Maybe if you have bumps and bruises, aches and pains, but not an injury.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
4:02 pm

Sadly, it’s not even a function of whether the Braves will sign BMac long-term beyond 2013, but whether they will even exercise the 2013 option. That will be A LOT of millions being shelled out for a guy who’s showing the signs of wear for a position that destroys bodies.

If BMac gets healthy, the only way he has a longer career is to play in the AL. :-(

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 16th, 2012
4:02 pm

TOBF @ 3:41—

Sweet mother of Abraham Lincoln!…

Yea, it’s not good at all :( And to think that they weren’t overly concerned about it before…

TennesseePaul

August 16th, 2012
4:02 pm

Last 9 Starts of the Starting 9

_________AVG__OBP__SLG___OPS_wOBA_L9S9+
Bourn__ .351 .442 .541 0.982 .428 __168
Prado__ .324 .390 .514 0.904 .392 __145
Heyward .257 .333 .514 0.848 .385 __128
Chipper .281 .378 .375 0.753 .305 __108
Freeman .206 .289 .441 0.731 .316 ___96
Uggla__ .290 .405 .645 1.051 .439 __182
McCann_ .129 .250 .129 0.379 .181 ____9
Janish_ .194 .265 .226 0.491 .233 ___37
Medlen_ .200 .333 .200 0.533 .231 ___52

TuffShhhtuff

August 16th, 2012
4:03 pm

“McFann”..your 3PM……….the primary word there would be “credibility”. He is NOT a doctor, not even close! The only one who has been diagnosing all season, even though not a doctor either, is FG.

MFin04

August 16th, 2012
4:03 pm

It isn’t like Ross is a joke of catcher. Guy has what, a career .835 OPS for the Braves, while playing great defense. And that is getting on and off playing time. That seems pretty incredible.

timthebrave

August 16th, 2012
4:04 pm

They should have the Maddux 100% litmus test for 2014. It will eliminate the fools

UKUGA

August 16th, 2012
4:04 pm

Two of tonight’s starting nine have identical AVG and SLG over the last nine.

How’d they do that?

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