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2,190 comments Add your comment
brian
August 10th, 2012
11:40 am
Cain or Bourjos will be prime trade targets for the Braves for CF. We also need an ace.
As to the above posts – I do not want PRado in LF and Francisco at 3B. I would flip flop them and add Reed Johnson or the ever mighty Gattis if he is ready to platoon in LF
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:40 am
We all get way too serious here sometimes.
I hear ya and agree.
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:41 am
With the struggles he’s had so far in the AL, don’t see it happening. Especially since he wants to play for a mid-market team. Might give the Braves a little discount since he likes us. Ya never know.
I don’t see him taking $4M less than the going rate for some one of his caliber. And, he won a Cy Young in the AL. he’s still young. And he has no serious competition in Free Agency. And a ton of teams vying for him. He’ll get paid.
ncscoots
August 10th, 2012
11:42 am
We all get way too serious here sometimes.
Because we can’t stop in mid-conversation and say, “Let’s get a beer.”
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:43 am
Because we can’t stop in mid-conversation and say, “Let’s get a beer.”
Speak for yourself scoots. I do that all the time. No one shows up, so I have their beer for them…
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 10th, 2012
11:44 am
As to the above posts – I do not want PRado in LF and Francisco at 3B.
Agree. If if has to happen, then I guess it will. But I’d prefer to NOT have Juan start at 3rd.
We also need an ace.
Understatement of the year! We currently don’t have an ace (Sheets doesn’t count), nor an improving #2.
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:44 am
Every time some one mentions Sheets as a one year option for next year, you seem to take that as an implication that Wren would stop there. Not sure why…
Maybe because of the Maholm addition. It’s possible, and I’d love to have lots of depth which signing Sheets and getting a frontline guy. As long as we are getting a guy like Shields, because as we all know, Hudson, Maholm are only under contract for 2013 and presumably, so would Sheets.
Capt.Mudd
August 10th, 2012
11:44 am
Has everybody seen the twitter post Chipper rendered last night during down time in the hotel in NY?
cricket
August 10th, 2012
11:45 am
Wren lacks the balls to do this job the proper way, which is to be schrewd and smart.
absolutely. all he had to do was give cubs an offer that Dempster could not refuse and let go of his right to refuse the trade.
and to think Godfather the movie came out in 1972, detailing how to do it, even if he didn’t read the book…
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:45 am
Bourjos
I have little desire to see this guy in Atlanta. Check that, zero desire. I think I’d be as bummed about that as Ef is about Sheets in the rotation next year… hell, I’m get as bummed about Bourjos every time I read as Ef is when he reads about Sheets…
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:45 am
Because we can’t stop in mid-conversation and say, “Let’s get a beer.”
Speak for yourself scoots. I do that all the time. No one shows up, so I have their beer for them…
Awesome couple of posts there.
ncscoots
August 10th, 2012
11:45 am
I do that all the time. No one shows up, so I have their beer for them
Good deal, maybe that’s what I’ll start doing, LOL.
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:46 am
I have little desire to see this guy in Atlanta. Check that, zero desire. I think I’d be as bummed about that as Ef is about Sheets in the rotation next year… hell, I’m get as bummed about Bourjos every time I read as Ef is when he reads about Sheets…
Hah! It’s really that I’ll be super bummed that we don’t add a frontline guy. I’m fine with Sheets, it just can’t be it. Go get me “Big Game” James.
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:47 am
Has everybody seen the twitter post Chipper rendered last night during down time in the hotel in NY?
Was he getting hammered with McCann, Huddy, Freeman and Heyward at the hotel bar celebrating Jason’s 23rd birthday?
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:48 am
we all know, Hudson, Maholm are only under contract for 2013 and presumably, so would Sheets.
Yes, but Beachy is returning in 2014. They need two starters for next season, unless they believe Delgado or Teheran are those guys. I don’t. With the return of Beachy in 2014, and one of or both of Delgado and Teheran that year… the need decreases for making multiple long term pitching acquisitions. Acquire a front line guy, fill out the rest and it should work well from there with what the team has in house at that point.
Lew
August 10th, 2012
11:49 am
scoots – I couldn’t drink it even if we did. Wouldn’t mind some tea, though.
brian – Not sure how you put Francisco in LFR – I can’t find that he’s ever played anywhere other than 3B – at least in the minors or his small time at the big league level. Defensively, you’d do better putting him at third and Prado in LF and maybe letting Prado play some third with Johnson in LF (IF we re-sign him).
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
11:49 am
If we don’t sign a frontline starter this offseason I think it’s been a wasted signing period.
What’s beyond 2013? How’s 2014 going to shape up? I’d assume Hanson won’t be here but that’s not a given I guess, don’t know about Hudson past next season either. That would leave basically Beachy as the only current proven starter. I sure hope Minor continues to develop along with Delgado and Teheran. We’re going to need them.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 10th, 2012
11:49 am
Frank Wren, you need to Act like a man! You should have made Dempster accept that offer. It’s all your fault. Don’t blame other GMs/players for being unable to make moves. You should be able to make any move you want at any time!
cricket
August 10th, 2012
11:50 am
i would love to get a beer right now but company cafeteria here is only stocked with juices, pretend-juices and teas. one thing i loved in in france – fantastic food and pretty good wine available in company cafe for lunch..
ncscoots
August 10th, 2012
11:50 am
I guess the fear would be that, if Sheets pitches well enough to get a Braves’ contract offer, will he not have pitched well enough to get more than one-year offers?
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:50 am
Acquire a front line guy, fill out the rest and it should work well from there with what the team has in house at that point.
I agree with that.
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:51 am
I guess the fear would be that, if Sheets pitches well enough to get a Braves’ contract offer, will he not have pitched well enough to get more than one-year offers?
Can’t fear that. Gotta just play it out and see how it goes…
Capt.Mudd
August 10th, 2012
11:52 am
@Efrim………Negative on the pub follies. He–in an ‘everyday guy kind of manner’ tweeted that his Rm. TV wasn’t picking up all cable channels and that the bed was not comfy enough/causing back spasm…………
cricket
August 10th, 2012
11:53 am
Was he getting hammered with McCann, Huddy, Freeman and Heyward at the hotel bar celebrating Jason’s 23rd birthday?
DO NOT look at the pictures of that party
DAP
August 10th, 2012
11:53 am
if we cant get the top of the rotation starter, maybe it wouldnt be a good idea to trade “extra” bullpen arms like o’flarety. wren ight have to see how his rotation is going to look before seeing if some bullpen guys are expendable.
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:53 am
I guess the fear would be that, if Sheets pitches well enough to get a Braves’ contract offer, will he not have pitched well enough to get more than one-year offers?
Yes, but I do not see any team giving him two guaranteed years. No way based on his history.
TennesseePaul
August 10th, 2012
11:55 am
wren might have to see how his rotation is going to look before seeing if some bullpen guys are expendable.
Always a good move. Reliever prices seem to sky rocket in the off-season. I’m not sure how it will pan out this year, but if it is like years past, then holding might be a solid move as his trade position would be stronger. We’ll see though. It’ll be interesting to see how K-Rod screws up yet another FA off-season.
abeeewright
August 10th, 2012
11:56 am
“Lew, August 10th, 2012, 11:25 am “I have no problem trading Tommy, just not sure they’d get what he’s worth to the Braves.”
I was more responding to the part of your comment about how people loved Tommy til they hated him.
I’m sure that Wren would get about what you should get for a solid middle of the rotation starter with three years left of control. He should rate at least a decent CF, which would be worth a lot to the Braves.
The rotation, without Hanson, would be weaker. However, Minor appears to be coming along. Teheran has had his awful year, Delgado should improve.
And, to second Efrim’s comments, Braves prolly have to acquire a starter that is more towards the #1/#2 end of the rotation if they’re going to be competitive in 2013.
If the Braves get that #1/#2 starter, then the Hanson-less rotation doesn’t sting as much.
In summary … spend your FA dollars on a pitcher; flip Hanson for a CF; continue the drought in LF.
Efrim
August 10th, 2012
11:56 am
LHP Luis Merejo going for the GCL Braves today.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 10th, 2012
11:57 am
Acquire a front line guy, fill out the rest and it should work well from there with what the team has in house at that point.
Agree. Easier to fill in those other needs too.
Yes, but I do not see any team giving him two guaranteed years. No way based on his history.
I’m sure someone might… But, it’d be unlikely. 2 yrs should definitely be the max though.
Capt.Mudd
August 10th, 2012
11:57 am
Addendum…..not saying the guys didn’t belt a few down—spoke above solely on the Chipper Tweet.
Capt.Mudd
August 10th, 2012
12:01 pm
Anyone care to know the result of that tweeter offering? Hotel staff did read it you know!!!
Disgusted
August 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
“Cain or Bourjos will be prime trade targets for the Braves for CF.” We also need an ace.
We have to do better than Cain or Bourjos for CF. Cain is not that good and Bourjos cannot hit. We can do better than that. Span would be a better target.
We need as ace but no way we are affording one so that is off the table. Unless what we have in the system (now or in the future) develops into an ACE, we have to go with our collection of good and potentially good number two and three SP’s. And we can be pretty good with thatl
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
Maybe that rotation doesn’t have a #1 but with the likelyhood of the payroll hovering OR decreasing again, how are we balancing the roster if we sign a SP over 20M a year?!
Do you guys want Prado, Heyward, Freeman, and BMac to walk?! Because I don’t….and thats exactly what will happen when we cant look those guys up to long term deals because of paying 1 guy 20M+ a year….
We’re not the Phillies….we’re not the Nats…..we’re neither the Yanks, nor the Red Sox…..
We can NOT afford that kind of deal w/o skimping in 3 other areas……
Thats just realistic folks!
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:06 pm
a) Big Game James is a ML average P outside of 2011
b) Losing Hanson sting?! The guy has declining peripherals and if not for the run support wouldn’t have even a slightly above average record…. + shoulder and back issues….
I keep failing to see why some have their eyes closed when watching him pitch…..IF anything more ppl should be clamoring to have Medlen in the rotation permanently as the Braves are something ridiculous like 14-4 in his last 18 starts…..
But wait, lets give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that would have 3 more L’s had freak occurances not happened in games he gave up 5+ before the 3rd inning…..
cricket
August 10th, 2012
12:08 pm
liked this writeup from deadspin -
We thought we were too cynical to ever again believe in sports the way we did when we were kids. We thought we could never unquestioningly adore and glorify an athlete, knowing what really goes on. But then we met Chipper Jones’s Twitter feed. Larry, Jr. tweets in backwoods gibberish overflowing with vitality. He loves his teammates—J-Hey, the Rev, B-Mac, Mike B, and others—and always celebrates when they go “mammo,” “jimmyjack,” or “yicketty.” On off days, he has slushees and tells us about them.
Today, while in a hotel room awaiting a series against the Mets, Chipper got his first taste of his immense online power:
@RealCJ10 If anyone was thinkin about stayin at the Grand Hyatt in NY,dont! My AC is set on 65 and its north of 80 in here. Like a freaken sauna!
@RealCJ10The movie channels dont work and the beds make my back spasm up! Am i complaining too much? Im sorry, gotta vent to someone. Love yall!!!
@RealCJ10Ahh the power of social media. TV guy just showed up at my door. Didnt even have to call the front desk. See what happens when u vent a tad?
Some days, the internet is just the best. There’s a significant overlap between those days and the days Chipper Jones tweets.
Murph
August 10th, 2012
12:09 pm
Sign Greinke, trade for Shields, trade for a CF/LF bat, and go for it all, minor league system be damned.
Of all the names thrown around on this blog, how many will actually make the team and be solid, productive players for years to come? Maybe 2 out of 10?
Screw em all… trade everything you’ve got and make an actual run for a WS.
If you miss out, well, it’s gonna be a long rebuilding process. We all somehow survived the 80’s with those crappy teams, we’ll survive it again. Well, most of us will.
brian
August 10th, 2012
12:10 pm
the best contract that Sheets will get based on his injury history is a 1 year deal with a vesting or team option for a 2nd year.
Disgusted
August 10th, 2012
12:11 pm
Hanson has some warts and the velocity issue is a concern but remember that the guy is still quite young.
I don’t see him doing an abrupt el foldo like JJ. At least not to that level.
I do hope JJ gets it back somewhere elsee, and someone in the off seson should look at him but it will be a 2 way contract.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:13 pm
Murph-
You bring in Shields and sign Greinke and you can pretty much kiss the roster balance goodbye….
Guys are getting too close to arb and need to be locked up too much for that to happen…..
They should be focusing on locking up Prado/Heyward/Freeman/Kimbrel and talk to BMac before they even start worrying about giving someone a 20M contract
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:15 pm
Disgusted-
He is following down the exact same path w/ the injury history and now multiple years of serious decreased velocity in the fastball….eerily same path….
In fact, his avg FB has dropped over 3 mph in about 3 years…..thats just awful!
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:17 pm
P-T, I’d seriously shop Uggla this offseason as well. That’s quite a bit of payroll flexibility there.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:22 pm
AT –
I cant see that happening…..you then have another hole to fill…..
That would be fine and dandy if we had any guys ready to step up in the minors, BUT we don’t…..
We are OK to deal some pitchers because we have a bit of depth there….but we have ZERO hitting talent ready or even close to ready.
Murph
August 10th, 2012
12:25 pm
You bring in Shields and sign Greinke and you can pretty much kiss the roster balance goodbye….
I’d rather have one really, really, really good team that stands an actual chance of winning it all than 10+ years of mediocre teams that will be fighting it out for 3rd place in the division.
This was the year to make the moves with the NL being so winnable… but the Braves stayed pretty much on the conservative side and made a very safe trade.
It’s been, what, 17 years since our last WS victory? Now with the TV deals being signed and the balance of money (power) shifting away from the Braves, it’s going to be harder and harder for them to compete.
I dunno, I guess I’d rather the team go all-in one year than piddle around for another 17 years, getting kinda close here and there but never really having a powerhouse team capable of taking that final step. Go big or go home, deal with the consequences later.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:28 pm
P-T, I’m not so sure that his production at 2nd would be that hard to replace. We’ve been pretty competitive this season with nothing hardly coming from 2nd.
DAP
August 10th, 2012
12:31 pm
p-town That would be fine and dandy if we had any guys ready to step up in the minors, BUT we don’t…..
we kinda do. rev and $14mil would give you some options. i dont really thing trading uggla is the way to go, though. i think hes worth keeping, so we can focus on other issues.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:31 pm
I wouldn’t be against using Pastor at 2nd if he’s capable in turning a DP.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:33 pm
Murph-
While I would normally agree w/ you, unless the offense gets on the same page and consistent…and by that I mean right now Bourn, Prado, JHey, and Uggla being better lately, it wouldn’t matter if we had Cy Young in our rotation….
We went from Bourn/Prado carrying us the first couple months to then it was JHey and Chipper to now BMac and Freeman….
Just once it’d be nice to have the whole offense clicking….because when you have outings like Hamels did against us, like I said, there is question whether Cy Young could win at times….
BUT you go for it and bring it a Greinke, you can kiss Bourn and likely McCann goodbye in the next 2 years….and if you do give Greinke a sizeable contract for long term, you may have to kiss Prado and one of Heyward or Freeman goodbye…..and I do NOT want to do that….
Unfortunately with the tv contract and ownership holding the team down as far as $$$ goes, we have to rely on guys we pick up like Sheets and Maholm outperforming their contracts and on prospects attaining their ceilings or close to it…..sad but its true.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:33 pm
I just think a very strong rotation can mask a lot of offensive deficiencies. We’ve got our core group of offensive players without “having to” rely on Uggla.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:35 pm
DAP-
Pastornicky is the next DeRosa/Betemit….good enough to start for a mediocre team, but nothing more than a solid bench piece for a contender….
And the 14M is nice if you can allocate it to a few areas…..but its nowhere near enough to land an elite hitter or pitcher
MFin04
August 10th, 2012
12:37 pm
3rd (almost 2nd) best record in the NL and we still hate our team.
Love it!
Let’s pause for a second and remember the Philadelphia Phillies Phans that we have lost this year…and I’m sure there are a few.
CDOG
August 10th, 2012
12:38 pm
WHY IS ERIC HINSKI STILL ON THE ROSTER? HE HASN”T CHANGED. HE STILL TAKING 3 STRAIGHT CALL THIRD STRIKES DOWN THE MIDDLE, THEN GOES INTO THE DUGOUT, CUTS HIS HAIR LIKE A MOHAWK, THEN HELPS THE BRAVES LOSE. PLEASE!
CDOG
August 10th, 2012
12:38 pm
WHY IS ERIC HINSKI STILL ON THE ROSTER? HE HASN”T CHANGED. HE STILL TAKING 3 STRAIGHT CALL THIRD STRIKES DOWN THE MIDDLE, THEN GOES INTO THE DUGOUT, CUTS HIS HAIR LIKE A MOHAWK, THEN HELPS THE BRAVES LOSE. PLEASE!
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:39 pm
AT-
Lots of people have soured on Uggla….I haven’t as I knew what he was when we got him….
And even in his slumps, you’re not going to replace that production so easily….
What people don’t understand is that its just not that easy to throw money at someone when you have such clear restraints….
Holding onto prospects is one thing….as they can be useful to a team both ways, keeping them or dealing them….
BUT looking at young established players like Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, etc, they need to leave money for those guys as they are OUR future cornerstones….and you can’t throw 20M at a SP and then hope and pray they will sign long term team friendly deals….
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:40 pm
And the 14M is nice if you can allocate it to a few areas…..but its nowhere near enough to land an elite hitter or pitcher
But it is when you take into consideration the savings from Lowe, Chipper and JJ this offseason coupled with any other moves you make.. not to mention next season with most likely Hudson’s money coming off the books. That would allow us to sign Heyward, Freeman, Prado and Kimbrel.
raleighbravefan
August 10th, 2012
12:41 pm
Based on what they have done so far for their new teams…I’m glad we didn’t land Dempster or Grienke. I know it’s a small sample size, but I’m not nearly as in love with either one, as aq lot of folks here. Even if they turn it around, those are several loses since July 31 that we can do without.
If we can acquire and afford a true ace, great. Pretty tough to do. If Sheets continues on, I would be pretty comfortable with 1 year (possibly with incentives, and a team option for second year (low buyout or incentive based).
Hillbilly
August 10th, 2012
12:41 pm
I just went through all of Chippers tweets and it feels like I just read the script to the old Chris Rock movie, “Pootie Tang.”
Capt.Mudd
August 10th, 2012
12:44 pm
good ‘coda’ cricket
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:44 pm
And if we were to sign Greinke now, more than likely by the time his contract was ending those 3 would be entering the mega mil contracts. It’s all about balancing your payroll.
Murph
August 10th, 2012
12:45 pm
I just went through all of Chippers tweets and it feels like I just read the script to the old Chris Rock movie, “Pootie Tang.”
Rye da tie in da timmy tang.
DAM
August 10th, 2012
12:45 pm
I think there are very few people who wouldn’t want to see Greinke in a Braves uniform next year. That’s not the argument. The problem is that he’ll want to get paid like he’s a top-5 or top-10 starter in the majors, which he’s not. Therefore, his cost is not worth his talent.
Just for fun, off the top of my head, here is a list of starters I consider better than Greinke:
Clayton Kershaw
Justin Verlander
David Price
Felix Hernandez
Madison Bumgarner
Matt Cain
Stephen Strasburg
Cole Hamels
Roy Halladay
Cliff Lee
C.C. Sabathia
Tim Lincecum (this season notwithstanding)
Jered Weaver
Dan Haren
Gio Gonzalez
Adam Wainwright
Jordan Zimmermann
Brandon Beachy
That’s just offhand for that list. Bottom line, Greinke isn’t worth $20+ million per year, IMO.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:47 pm
AT –
So do you front load his contract then?
I haven’t done the money in awhile but it just seemed it never meshed well….
And before anyone gets the wrong idea…YES I agree we really need an Ace….
I just don’t see it being plausible given Liberty Media & the awful tv deal.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:48 pm
DAP, all of those guys are getting paid or will get paid. It’s just the nature of the business.
I don’t know that I would put these ahead of Greinke though..
Dan Haren
Gio Gonzalez
Adam Wainwright
Jordan Zimmermann
Brandon Beachy
Madison Bumgarner
Cliff Lee
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:49 pm
So do you front load his contract then?
Sure, I’d be alright with that.
DAM
August 10th, 2012
12:52 pm
P-Town @12:13, agreed. We need to lock up Freeman, Heyward, Prado, Kimbrel (and I would add Beachy to that list, as well) before we do something like tie up more than 20% of the payroll to someone like Greinke. I think the only way we could keep all those guys and get a big-name starter would be to front-load the contract rather than keep it even or back-load it.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:52 pm
AT-
I’d just be worried we would end up where Seattle is w/ King Felix and that is giving a guy a kings ransom and then not having money to pay anyone else…..and then your good players walk after 5 years and you end up w/ a really crappy team
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:52 pm
Obviously we’d have to be creative and really do our homework looking forward but I think with the wealth of young pitchers and position players we currently have..ie.. Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Simmons, Beachy, Delgado, Teheran, Minor..etc. I think now more than ever we’ve got a chance to sign that big arm for the rotation.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:53 pm
I don’t think there would be anything wrong with front loading his contract.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
12:53 pm
DAM-
For me, it’d have to be front loaded…..they have all this money coming off from Chipper, the Lowe deal, and possibly Bourn….
Can’t backload because they’ll want sizeable $$$ available for the 3 guys I mentioned plus maybe a Beachy or Medlen like suggested….
DAM
August 10th, 2012
12:54 pm
Well, AT, at the very least, I don’t think you can say that Greinke is significantly different from the list you made. I would still argue that Lee, Bumgarner, and Wainwright are definitely better than Greinke. The others might be a push.
MFin04
August 10th, 2012
12:56 pm
No thanks on Greinke. Rotation is actually perfectly fine how it is without him. And Beachy is coming back, Medlen has been good, and one of Minor/Delgado/Teheran better turn into a #2 or we have the worst scouts in the majors.
raleighbravefan
August 10th, 2012
12:56 pm
Reading between the lines of recent Wren comments, I think it’s possible that he could make a case to Liberty and McGurk that spending a little extra (i.e. additional $4-5 M) for an ace will pay off with additional revenue. Many will scoff at this, but I do think it couls happen.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
12:57 pm
P-T, the other plus with signing Greinke… you’ve still got your depth in the minors without sacrificing it to obtain an ace.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
1:00 pm
one of Minor/Delgado/Teheran better turn into a #2
Not exactly the best way to build a rotation… that’s like wishing on a star your dream will come true tomorrow.
Shaun
August 10th, 2012
1:01 pm
one of Minor/Delgado/Teheran better turn into a #2 or we have the worst scouts in the majors.
Yes, because everyone knows that developing #2’s and keeping pitchers healthy is so easy.
If any one of those three becomes a #3, that’s pretty good.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
raleighbravefan, no scoffing here.. they’ve said in the past there might be some room for additional funds.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
Bumgarner doesn’t have the longevity of success Greinke has…..plus he pitches in a seriously lopsided pitchers park while Greinke has always pitched in more hitter friendly places and hitter friendly divisions….
Wainwright I am not sure because he’s back from TJ and this year has been up and down….and for all the great talk about Cliff Lee and how he cashed in the big contract, I’d say he’s only marginally better….
Recall, he was 12-9 in 2010 and only 4-6 w/ a 4 ERA on a solid TEX team and he is 2-6 this year w/ an ERA approaching 4….I’ll give him his due as he’s had 3 really great seasons, 1 of which could never be reproduced…..
Greinke does have great peripherals though and I argue that he has about 20 more career wins if he were playing w/ teams besides KC and MIL….
Oh, this also the guy that in a hitters park of Miller Park NEVER lost a game there…..
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
P-T, nicely done..
DAP
August 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
braves arent signing an ace, guys.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
IF Minor could start limiting the HR ball, I’d say he’s darn close to a 3 now…..his makeup over the year has gotten SO much better!
I still feel Delgado is the best of the bunch because of the intangibles…..
And Teheran I think should be trade bait…..have not liked ANYTHING I have seen from him since about July of last yr
DAP
August 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
we want an ace, we have to make him ourselves.
Arkansas Transplant
August 10th, 2012
1:08 pm
braves arent signing an ace, guys.
I don’t think anyone suggested that they would.. just that they needed too.
DAM
August 10th, 2012
1:08 pm
Bumgarner for his career:
Home: 36 GS, 3.05 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 215 K, 49 BB
Away: 39 GS, 3.13 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 216 K, 57 BB
Pitching in SF hasn’t had anything to do with it.
Wainwright had a tough start coming off TJ but has been extremely good and very consistent lately.
Lee, OK, he hasn’t been nearly as good this year. Maybe it’s just a personal gut feeling, but I’d take him over Greinke any day.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:08 pm
The real true point that is being danced around here that I am sure we can all agree on….
If Liberty Media gave a damn about this team and didn’t paint them into a corner with their absentee ownership, only caring about being in the green, and being handcuffed to an asinine tv contract, we wouldn’t be discussing netting an ace, because we’d already have one….
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:11 pm
DAM-
Read between the lines of what I said….”division”….
The guy plays in a division where he pitches at PetCo and Dodger Stadium a lot as well…..certainly MUCH easier than playing many games in Citizens Bank, Nats Park, and walls pushed in Citi Field
DAM
August 10th, 2012
1:12 pm
P-Town, my bad, misread your comment the first time.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:13 pm
Cmon though….w/ Bumgarner you’re talking about a guy who has 75 CAREER games started….
Zack Greinke has more WINS than games the kid has started.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
DAM-
While I agree w/ a lot on your list and am NOT saying that Greinke is a Top 10 in MLB starter, he’d be very worthy to the Braves as they don’t have an ace….
My point of contention is where is the $$$ coming from and who will this $$$ be taken from down the line….
As I have said a million times, I do not want bringing in an ace to prevent the team from locking up guys like Prado, Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel and someone like Simmons a few years down the road.
DAM
August 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
When I watch Bumgarner I come away thinking wow, damn, that guy is tough. I don’t get quite the same feeling watching Greinke pitch.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:17 pm
I believe AT said it perfectly when he used the word “creative”….
Pretty well a common term among Braves fans and front office alike, because with the payroll constraints, they will need to be creative in figuring out how to work this.
DAM
August 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
P-Town –
We agree 100% on your 1:16.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
DAM-
Then you didn’t watch his last start v Phily before he was traded….
Not only dominant, but WOW dominant and hit an absolute BOMB into the LF seats….yeah, true athlete….
But most didn’t know about it bc MIL screwed him out of a W (again)
DiamondbackMac
August 10th, 2012
1:25 pm
P-Town
While I agree w/ a lot on your list and am NOT saying that Greinke is a Top 10 in MLB starter, he’d be very worthy to the Braves as they don’t have an ace….
I guess it depends on your definition of ace. Personally, I don’t believe Greinke is an ace. Good, but not an ace.
brian
August 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
looks like people have had fun speculating about next year. It is funny that this Braves team has the potential to go far in the playoffs and we could look completely different next year.
brian
August 10th, 2012
1:31 pm
it is hard not to look to KC for our OF needs. We match up too well with them. They will want young starting pitching and we have young starting pitching with Delgado, Teheran, and gilmartin.
We want a LF and/or a CF and they have Alex Gordon and Lorenzo Cain.
I could easily see a package being discussed involving Gordon and Delgado as the 2 centerpieces or Delgado for Cain plus a major prospect not named Will Myers. I think Gordon would solve LF for us for years due to his recent contract extension. Cain is more of a question mark since he has been injured most of the year.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:31 pm
DB Mac-
Also depends on where you’re at…..
Given the teams I have looked at, I could argue and say he’d be a #1 on 21 of 30 MLB teams….
So I would say that gives him Ace qualities.
cricket
August 10th, 2012
1:31 pm
it so it goes on …
Like John Lackey, who apparently needs to travel with the team and work with trainer Mike Reinold while recovering from Tommy John surgery – a fairly standard rehab that literally thousands of pitchers have come back from stronger-than-ever over the last 30 years.
But for whatever reason, the underachieving righty needs to travel with the team even though he won’t be throwing even one measly pitch for them.
Lackey was so busted up after the latest defeat that he was strutting around the clubhouse with a can of Bud Light in each hand, or what is known as “double-fisting” on every college campus in the history of mankind.
So much for the Bobby Valentine ban on alcohol in the Sox clubhouse that was implemented during spring training. (It should be noted that beer is in fact allowed in the road clubhouses after the game, but perhaps it shouldn’t be given what’s gone on with this team after the last year.)
For a guy that was at the epicenter of last year’s “chicken-and-beer” shenanigans – and somebody who isn’t expected to help out this year’s team in any way, shape or form – it was another clear case of some Sox players that just don’t care anymore.
http://www.csnne.com/baseball-boston-redsox/redsox-talk/Haggerty-Signs-are-there-that-Sox-are-gi?blockID=754571&feedID=3352
brian
August 10th, 2012
1:32 pm
as far as obtaining a #1 pitcher/ace in the offseason, I bet it will be someone that has not been discussed here. Wren will wait for this year’s Gio to become apparent then go get him.
P-Town Brave ©
August 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
Brian -
That doesnt fix the LHH issue unless you’re swaping Cain in and Bourn out….
Otherwise they’d need to give me Myers….
You can stop Gordon talk….he’s their build around their future of today model w/ Moose, Alcides, and Hosmer
DiamondbackMac
August 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
P-Town
Recently, someone posted a comparison of Greinke’s and Hanson’s career stats. They were almost identical if I remember correctly. Would you call Hanson an ace?