Heyward using speed to Braves advantage

(Staff writer Carroll Rogers is filling in for David O’Brien this series.)

Heyward has been doing a lot of this

Heyward has been doing a lot of this

Philadelphia – Manager Fredi Gonzalez marveled at it during the Braves recent homestand. And it was pretty well on display last night in the series opener against the Phillies. Jason Heyward is a threat to score, simply standing on first base.

By my tally, Heyward has scored from first base five times in the Braves’ past five games. He scored the first four of those runs on doubles, but last night he managed to score from first on a single by Brian McCann which handcuffed Nate Schierhotlz in right field. Heyward was off to the races.

“We were talking about the guy scoring from first on a double, now he’s scoring from first on a base hit,” Gonzalez said after the game last night. “It was unbelievable. He played until the whistle blew. Schierholtz misplays that line drive and he gets in no man’s land there and he doesn’t stop running and he scores easy from first base.”

Heyward said he didn’t realize the ball had gotten that far away from Schierholtz.

“I’m hustling and hustling and trusting my coach after that,” Heyward said. “Once (third base coach Brian Snitker) tells me to go, I’ve got to run like heck to get home. I heard he thought he had the ball so I was able to get there a little bit easier.”

So, a rundown: Heyward scored from first on a McCann single in the seventh inning Monday night against the Phillies. He scored from first on a Chipper Jones double to left in the seventh inning Sunday against the Astros. He scored from first on a Jones double to right in the third inning on Friday night against the Astros. And he scored twice from first last Thursday against the Marlins – in the first inning on Jones’ double to left center and in the second inning on Freeman’s double to right.

This is one of those facets of the game that doesn’t really show up in the stats but it does in a manager’s mind. It’s part of why Gonzalez still feels comfortable penciling Heyward into the third spot in the Braves’ order.

Since moving him there on June 29, Heyward has hit .255 (36-for-141) with four doubles, one triple, six home runs and 17 RBIs in the third hole. He’s also stolen five bases.

Showing his combination of speed and power, Heyward also homered last night for his 18th of the season, which matched his total for his breakout rookie season in 2010. He and McCann are tied for the team lead at 18. Heyward has hit four home runs in his past 12 games.

Minor vs. Hamels

It’s Mike Minor vs. Cole Hamels tonight as the Braves try to win their eighth straight against the Phillies. If they manage to sweep this series they would match their nine-game winning streak from Aug. 15, 1996 through July 14, 1997.

Minor is 2-1 with a 1.74 ERA in his last five starts, including his last appearance against the Phillies July 28 when he held them to one run in eight innings of a 2-1 win.

I talked to him yesterday about coming to grips with allowing home runs and not letting them beat him, and I was reminded of something both Tom Glavine and Chipper have said about him. They’ve talked about how much of a difference it makes when a player realizes he belongs up here. Seems to me, Minor is in the process of making that realization.

“There’s a lot of pressure that goes with it,” Minor said. “Guys are really competitive and want to take my job and I understand it because I’ve been in that spot too. But it’s just how you deal with it.”

So how does he deal with it? Minor said he quit dwelling on the numbers of other pitchers who might be gunning for his job (like a Randall Delgado) and just started focusing on what he has to do to get better.

“If I perform, then it helps the team win; that’s the ultimate goal,” Minor said. “They won’t need anybody else up here if I’m winning.”

The Braves faced Hamels on July 27 in his first start after signing his $144 million, six-year extension. He was off his game that night, walking a career-high six batters, and lasted only five innings on 109 pitches. Hamels took the loss to Ben Sheets that night 6-1, after allowing five runs (three earned).

He bounced back with a quality start against the Nationals on Thursday, allowing three earned runs in seven innings, walking one and striking out nine, but still lost to the Nationals 3-0 on a combined shutout by Ross Detwiler, Sean Burnett and Tyler Clippard.

Hamels has given up five home runs in his past three starts, including a three-run shot to McCann on July 27.

Chipper vs. Mets and Phillies

Chipper Jones is scheduled to be back in the lineup tonight and the plan is for him to play the rest of this road trip against the Phillies and Mets. Never a good idea to rest the man against the Mets.

Chipper back in lineup tonight vs. Phils

Chipper back in lineup tonight vs. Phils

Actually, I was looking up his old Mets numbers yesterday and realized something: for all the hype around how well Jones hits the Mets, and rightly so, he’s been all over the Phillies for his career too.

Jones has hit .316 with 49 home runs and 157 RBIs in 237 games against the Mets in his career, including the four homers in three games in 1999 to all but assure him of the National League MVP award. But he’s also hit .335, with 48 homers and 148 RBIs against the Phillies, his highest career average against any NL East team (or any team period with 100 or more games).

Jones has hit hit .309 (58-for-188) for his career in 55 games at Citizens Bank Park, with 14 doubles, one triple, 11 home runs and 31 RBIs. He hit .350 (77-for-220) in 62 games at Veterans Stadium, with 16 doubles, two triples, 13 home runs and 38 RBIs.

As for New York, Jones hit .313 (101-for-323) in 88 games at Shea Stadium, the one he named his second-to-youngest son after. He hit 20 doubles there, one triple, 19 home runs and 55 RBIs. At Citi Field, Jones is hitting .217 in 20 games with four doubles, three home runs and 13 RBIs.

Speaking of Shea, we are wishing him well in his recovery from surgery yesterday. No fun for a 7-year-old but hoping he’s back on his feet in no time.

Braves lineup:

1. Michael Bourn CF

2. Martin Prado 2B

3. Jason Heyward RF

4. Chipper Jones 3B

5. Freddie Freeman 1B

6. Brian McCann C

7. Reed Johnson LF

8. Paul Janish SS

9. Mike Minor P

1,129 comments Add your comment

Geaux Braves

August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm

Meds will likely never win 15 games once let alone regularly…

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:01 pm

y’all need to live in the real world. Bonds, not Aaron, is the home run king
**********
Sad but true, but most of us will never view it with much legitimacy….just isn’t gonna happen.

VaBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm

I’m not worried about Bourn, even if he does accept the qualifying offer it’s only a 1 year deal for 13.5 million. We’d have our CF and leadoff man in place for another season. At a salary that he’
d most likely get on a long term deal… Also the chances of him doing that are slim to none, he won’t pass up the chance to get a huge long term deal.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm

FIFTH!!!!!!!

David O'Brien

August 7th, 2012
2:07 pm

Buster Olney today on the ongoing woes of the Florida, er, Miami Marlins:

“No team had more at stake when this season began than the Miami Marlins, who had tried to change almost everything about their team: A new ballpark, new roster, new colors, new uniform, new manager. Other teams have gone through makeovers in the past, but not to the extreme that we saw with the Marlins last winter.

Now, less than five months in, the Marlins are acknowledging the disaster that is their season. Sources within Major League Baseball say that the team’s attendance at Marlins Park is about 25 percent less than the team expected, and the fact that the Marlins asked for cash in a possible trade of Carlos Lee last week is a sign of larger concerns.

So where do they go from here?

Well, the payroll already has been reduced, from the $101 million at the start of this season to something much less — and presumably, there are more cuts to come. The Marlins made an astute baseball trade in unloading Hanley Ramirez and the $38 million remaining on his contract at the deadline, and they swapped a couple of veterans in Omar Infante and Anibal Sanchez. Lee and Carlos Zambrano presumably will walk away as free agents after this season.

But the problem the Marlins have now is that they have a payroll very top-heavy in high-end salaries, with some contracts that will be extremely difficult to shed unless they eat a lot of the dollars.

Ricky Nolasco is set to make $11.5 million next season, and Josh Johnson will earn $13.75 million, the last years of their respective contracts. Jose Reyes will make just $10 million in what is a heavily backloaded deal; his salary will jump to $16 million next season and then $22 million in each of the three seasons that follow. Heath Bell is making $6 million this year, and it climbs to $9 million for next year and the year after.

Mark Buehrle’s deal also is going to be ridiculously expensive in the years ahead: He’ll make $11 million next season, then a staggering $18 million in 2014 and $19 million in 2015.

The Marlins’ gamble, as they moved into their new ballpark, was that their splashy new investments would generate enough interest to pay off the contracts they took on. That hasn’t happened, and it’s hard to imagine it’s going to happen any time soon, because many of the Marlins’ baseball decisions — like the one they made in dealing Ramirez — will have to be more about managing money than about building a successful baseball team.

In the past, the Marlins have traded young stars like Miguel Cabrera and Josh Beckett and gotten good young prospects in return. But when they look to dump the contracts of players like Reyes — and that’s something they’ll have to seriously consider, whether it’s this winter or in the years ahead — they won’t get a lot in return because of the salaries involved.

For years, the Marlins competed despite an incredibly small payroll. It would be the least surprising development in baseball history if the Marlins eventually go back to that business model, but getting there will be problematic.

Mike

August 7th, 2012
2:10 pm

Nice to see JayHey finally turning into the multi-tool threat we all knew he could be. Doing a much better job fouling off the pitcher’s pitches until he can get a mistake pitch (this season). That and finally being more or less fully healthy really has made a big difference for sure.

David O'Brien

August 7th, 2012
2:10 pm

I’m not worried about Bourn, even if he does accept the qualifying offer it’s only a 1 year deal for 13.5 million. VaBravesFan

Can’t see any possible way he and Boras would accept that. Coming off the best season of his career, Bourn is going to leverage that into some long-term job security. Too big a risk for a speed-centric player like h im accept a one-year deal, especially when he’s likely to get multi-year offers with average annual value as high or possibly much higher than the salary that would come with a one-year qualifying offer.

lark

August 7th, 2012
2:11 pm

please don’t start 4 lefty hitters tonight.

Put the new guy in for Bourn. Heck give Heyward a night off if you have too.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:11 pm

I see can 100 losses in the Marlins’ near future…

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm

likely 20 years down the road all the PEDS hoopla will have died down and folks will look at Bonds without all the rancor and he will be known as the home run king for all time….

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm

Nice to see JayHey finally turning into the multi-tool threat we all knew he could be. Doing a much better job fouling off the pitcher’s pitches until he can get a mistake pitch (this season). That and finally being more or less fully healthy really has made a big difference for sure.

Good point…Big difference between fouling off pitchers’ pitches and fouling off hitters’ pitches, which is what he did for a long time.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm

Good grief on those Marlins’ numbers! Who was making the decisions down there? As I like to say, do they have manure for their brains?

Sounds like a team destined for bankruptcy, frankly. And the attendance woes were writing on the walls for years. How can they claim surprise at these low numbers?

Never mind a Fidel-lover for a manager! What a disaster….

MiaBchBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm

It couldn’t have happened to a nicer management group. Bunch of thieves – ya reap what ya sow, you animals!!!

David O'Brien

August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm

likely 20 years down the road all the PEDS hoopla will have died down and folks will look at Bonds without all the rancor and he will be known as the home run king for all time…. — nolie

Wanna bet?

Speaking of betting, how’s that “hoopla” over Pete Rose gambling died down over these past couple of decades?

Wait till you see the percentage of Hall of Fame votes that Bonds gets when he becomes eligible this winter. I’ll predict that many are shocked at how low it is.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm

The Marlins were too aggressive this off-season, but I think one big mistake they made was hiring Ozzie. Teams take on the personality of their manager, and he’s just too extreme.

VaBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm

DOB

I agree, as I said in that same post. Some people are worried about getting burned again.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm

I don’t think so, nolie….

Bonds is a hated figure. He was and remains SUCH a big jerk that I don’t see him ever overcoming it. I guess time alone will tell. Him coming clean would be the best thing he could do.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm

and Josh Johnson will earn $13.75 million, the last years of [his] contracts.

Call ‘em in November, Frank. It might only delay the rebuilding of the rotation, but what the hey. Low-ball on the trade package and take on all the money.

ChipperisGod

August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm

Thanks Carrol. Braves are on a roll, let’s keep it up guys!

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:16 pm

oh I’m sure he will get few, but I just do not think all this will continue another generation with new fans coming in all the time who have no emotional bias involved

Murph

August 7th, 2012
2:16 pm

I love watching the Marlins fall apart… Loria is as bad a guy as you’ll find in the baseball ownership fraternity.

Wow

August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm

Teheran, Delgado, and Medlen. Two of them needs to packaged in the off-season for a good OFer or a front-line starter.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm

nolie: two books – one for PED’s players, one for non-PED’s. Barry Bonds beefed up and stole a hallowed record; A-Rod is starting to break down and may not make it.

Bonds will never be the true king; he is nothing but a foppish usurper to the throne of The True HR King; Henry Louis “Hank” Aaron.

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm

I agree Murph, Loria deserves to be booed

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:19 pm

Teheran, Delgado, and Medlen. Two of them needs to packaged in the off-season

Golly, maybe Medlen goes All-Star for two months and they can trade him for Willingham. :-)

DAP

August 7th, 2012
2:19 pm

scoots Call ‘em in November, Frank. It might only delay the rebuilding of the rotation, but what the hey. Low-ball on the trade package and take on all the money.

yes.

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm

nah, 20 years from now all the new fans might wonder what the big deal was all about

JC Brave

August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm

I hope Bonds never gets recognized as anything but a cheater.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm

It’s been what, 23 years now since Rose was banned?

Not long enough. Forever won’t be long enough. He knew the precedent when he did what he did.

End of discussion for me.

As for Bonds, he deserves about zero percentage of the vote this winter. What a despicable character.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm

The Marlins have really been worse than their record indicates. For example, they have the same record as the Phillies, but the Phillies’ run differential is a huge 66 runs better (-34 to -100), The Marlins’ run differential is 4th-worst in baseball, and dropping.

UcantCLA

August 7th, 2012
2:21 pm

Ever since Bryce Harper showed up J Hey by taking second while he was slowly picking up the ball Heyward has upped his game. He noticed that Harper was using speed to win and started to do the same.

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm

he did nothing that 70% of the rest of them didn’t do phil, Being unlikeable is not against the rules, and he is nowhere near as despicable as Ty Cobb was

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm

scoots

That’d be incredible (Medlen going all bonkers for the rest of the season, then getting us Willingham in a deal).

But that’d also break little tiger’s heart if Meds is dealt. And mine too.

:sad:

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:23 pm

nolie

If I were playing 15 years ago, I’d have roided up too! You bet your azz.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:23 pm

You wanna talk about a bad stretch, the Indians have lost 15 of their last 18 games, being outscored 122-51. They have lost 10 in a row by a margin of 5.7 runs per game.

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:24 pm

nolie

Braves fans might be surprised if they knew who juiced and who didn’t. I think it is more than we have been lead to believe.

kenhotlanta

August 7th, 2012
2:24 pm

MiaBchBravesFan: Dude, that’s why I asked the question. I did not see that anniversary show your referred to and have not seen or heard from her in years. I don’t care how old she is or how long ago it was, she always brightened my day and I just wondered what happened to her. Thanks for the info.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:25 pm

An emotional bias and cheating don’t go hand in hand….

Cheaters remain cheaters across the years. It’s not going to change.

If I found out today that Chipper was taking that crap back in the day, then my admiration for his achievements and his place as my favorite Brave of all time, even ahead of Dale Murphy, would take a huge hit. An emotional bias in his favor is all that would save him in my eyes, but I would still then say no to the HOF for him. Period.

By the time he broke the hits record, and in my late teenage years at the time without good sense I suppose, I was thrilled for Rose breaking that record off of Show that afternoon when he did it….that emotional bias died swiftly. The cheating/gambling part never has and never will.

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:25 pm

Burrito time!

Bo Graves!

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:26 pm

Cleveland has been outscored 42-9 just in their last 4 games against Minnesota, who had the worst run differential in the AL until they met up with Cleveland in the past week.

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:27 pm

phil

I think if you and I knew the truth, we’d be sorely disappointed. Just sayin, not accusing any particular player.

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm

Braves vs Indians

Now that’s a native American showdown I’d love to see!

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm

he did nothing that 70% of the rest of them didn’t do phil, Being unlikeable is not against the rules, and he is nowhere near as despicable as Ty Cobb was
*************
No question on all counts….

But note that Cobb remains known for being a slime, even 50 years after he died. That’s not gonna change. It won’t change for Bonds either. Not a chance. But Cobb didn’t gamble on baseball, that we know of, and Cobb apparently didn’t take drugs to add five monster years to his career either.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm

I just saw how Washington beat Houston last night…

*shaking my head

Jeff R

August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm

For years, the Marlins competed despite an incredibly small payroll. It would be the least surprising development in baseball history if the Marlins eventually go back to that business model, but getting there will be problematic.

I suppose the new ballpark has helped the Marlins improve their draw, though not nearly close to their target attendance.

I never thought south Florida was great for major league baseball. Then, again, I guess having an ownership that can’t sustain a competitive team doesn’t help.

Pops

August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm

J-Hey Goes yikkety tonight.

Shaun

August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm

It’s ironic that the seemingly anti-stathead crowd is obsessed with certain statistical records and milestones, particularly when it comes to Hall of Fame voting. The crowd that many call “statheads” are the ones that realize there is no purity in statistical milestones or records (for a variety of reasons) and just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:27 pm

phil

I think if you and I knew the truth, we’d be sorely disappointed. Just sayin, not accusing any particular player.
*************
You don’t have to say it….deep down, we know. I just try not to think about it.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:31 pm

It’s ironic that the seemingly anti-stathead crowd is obsessed with certain statistical records and milestones, particularly when it comes to Hall of Fame voting. The crowd that many call “statheads” are the ones that realize there is no purity in statistical milestones or records (for a variety of reasons) and just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.

Uh…what?

Andy

August 7th, 2012
2:33 pm

Enter your comments here

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
2:33 pm

During lunch, the guys on XM radio were gushing about Simmons. One guy said that a long time scout told him that Simmons was the closest thing to Jeter since Jeter. The other guy compared him favorably to Furcal.

WOW

Heisenberg

August 7th, 2012
2:34 pm

Over/under on Bonds getting as much support for HoF than McGuire, I will take the under. Clemons may be over the support level Big Mac had but will not get in either.

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm

I was a pretty quick CF’er in my day, but I didn’t get a good jump on batted balls and I couldn’t hit for shyt! But I could steal you a base…………

:evil:

nolie

August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm

But note that Cobb remains known for being a slime, even 50 years after he died. That’s not gonna change. It won’t change for Bonds either

yeas it will because Cobb was a bad man and Barry was just dislikable

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm

just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.

Yeah, as long as the group of which you’re speaking get to decide on the definition of “performance”, rather than a bunch of ignorant BBWAA geezers.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm

We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.

That said, I suggest we begin figuring out a way to…..

DS1

August 7th, 2012
2:36 pm

raleigh

That’s good to hear…….

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:36 pm

I think Bonds will get more votes than McGwire, because his talent without roids is generally more respected than McGwire’s. But the media surely liked McGwire more on a personal level.

Murph

August 7th, 2012
2:37 pm

What did Shaun just say? Something about peaches? I didn’t understand a word of that.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:37 pm

I was a pretty quick CF’er in my day, but I didn’t get a good jump on batted balls and I couldn’t hit for shyt! But I could steal you a base

In other words, you were a one-tool player? :-)

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:38 pm

We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.

Of those, I say Kimbrel is the least likely to be a Brave in five years. He’s got one more cheap year left in 2013, but after that, he’s going to break Papelbon’s record marks for salaries by a relief pitcher.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:38 pm

Would be nice pay-per-view action to see Ty Cobb duke it out with Barry Bonds in Hades. :-)

Heisenberg

August 7th, 2012
2:39 pm

Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.

Jeff R

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

Shaun’s just trying to pick a fight – and on such a lovely summer’s day.

ccrider

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

nolie, that is why you keep ALL the suspected users out of the HOF.

Shaun

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

The only stats that should matter are those that tell us how much a player was worth in terms of runs and, in turn, wins. Too many put too much emphasis on statistical milestones and records without any regard to context and without any regard to how they relate to runs and wins.

We now have a very good understanding of how certain measurable things players do relate to runs and wins and how to make considerations for context in those measures. Too often those things are ignored in favor of whether a player got 3,000 hits or 500 homeruns or 300 wins, etc. or, worse yet, whether a player was “feared.”

Joshua

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

nolie you are delusional to think that 20 years will erase the bad taste Bonds left in the mouths of baseball fans everywhere. True – there will be a new generation of fans who are unbiased. But NOBODY will care what the tweeners think in terms of HOF voting. I think Bonds is at MINIMUM 40 years from ever seeing the HOF.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.

He’s no Roger Bernadina.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.

That might get him a spot among Evan Gattis lore, even.

bruce

August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm

Seems like Heyward is frequently sliding into home feet first (nice problem when he doesn’t need to slide… he is either so intent on sliding or Freeman is not in good enough position to help Jason decide not to slide.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm

Shaun, Bonds getting in or not getting has nothing to do with stats. I don’t think anyone would argue him as not a HOF and use stats as their basis.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm

Shaun’s just trying to pick a fight – and on such a lovely summer’s day.

I’m considering it. Even dueling with the unarmed results in good practice for a real fight, LOL.

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm

Agree with Brian…Most consider Bonds and Clemens hall of fame quality without the PEDs. McGuire, not so much. Doesn’t mean a majority will overlook the PEDs, but I believe it increases the odds. For me, I probably would not vote them in. Cheaters shouldn’t prosper.

Fish Bisch

August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm

Hamel owns us :(

Shaun

August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm

Joshua, I agree. 20 years may be too soon. It may be closer to 50 or more before folks look back and deduce that plenty of players already in the Hall and throughout the history of the game would have most likely used PED’s if their peers were also doing it and they thought they could get away with it while they were playing. Eventually I think voters will realize that moral purity has never been a part of baseball and that the idea that players were pure before PED’s came along is an odd myth.

Heisenberg

August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm

“We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.”

They are on different arb clocks. Heyward & Kimbrel may be on the same one, but with a lot of expensive contracts coming off the books by the time these guys get paid I could see it happening. The one big question is whether or not Braves could keep them and assemble a quality starting pitching staff. If you want to assume continued progress of Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Medlen and that at least one of these guys will also be on same clock as the others choices will have to be made.

AdirondackDave

August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm

DOB (or is it Carroll?) — I agree with you on the PEDs/Hall of Fame issue whether its Bonds, McGuire, or whoever, including Arod. Blatant cheating is a disqualifier and the older BB writers and fans get, the more respect (not less) we have for traditions and they way the game should be played.

On the Bourn question and him having the best season of his career, I’m not so sure about that. And as the season wears on, he seems to be getting less productive both with the bat and on the bases. If the trend continues, his next contract can’t help but be affected. Because mainly of his defense, I still hope the Braves re-sign him or at at least offer him that 1-year qualifying offer. I just think the competing offers might be a little less mind-numbing… maybe in the $12-$14M range rather than the $15-$18 that I would have expected a couple months ago… If he finishes in the .270s and 40s in stolen bases, Braves might just be able to bring him back.

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm

Heyward could score on a sac bunt, if we were playing the Astros in the 11th inning last night. :)

Murph

August 7th, 2012
2:48 pm

Too often those things are ignored in favor of whether a player got 3,000 hits or 500 homeruns or 300 wins, etc. or, worse yet, whether a player was “feared.”

I’d vote you into the blog HoF just based on how much you are “loathed” around here… and I don’t care about your argument stats, your wins and losses.

Guess I’m just as bad as those sensationalist journalists.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:50 pm

Official baseball hall of fame voting rules:

Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Half of it looks to be based on performance, the other half on the person.

phil

August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm

“We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.”

This is, of course, the core youth on the team. It’s ALL vitally important to our success over the next 12 or so seasons, hopefully longer, recognizing that Kimbrel could crap out in 2 years or next week, for all we know. I think Kimbrel could very well last a long time IF he isn’t pitched to death in the process.

NCBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm

DOB: thanks for sharing that Olney column. WOW – didn’t realize just how much FLA had overspent on some of those guys (Buerle at $19MM in 2015? YIKES!).

PDOG

August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm

Braves need to lock up their young position players ASAP, you pay them more now to avoid Free agency down the road. Next year will be Hudson’s last with Braves so will be saving another 10 million, no JJ next year thats 5 million, and they need to trade Hanson before he hits the 5 million mark. There should be plenty of cash to lock up these young players for the next 5 to 7 years. It is also the reason why you go with Gattis and or Cuningham next year instead of trading for a Willingham.
Hanson, Terd and another lower level prospect for Cain of KC.

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:52 pm

I think Kimbrel could very well last a long time IF he isn’t pitched to death in the process.

Relievers that last more than five years or so with outstanding performance are exceedingly rare.

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
2:52 pm

Shaun @2:45 – Thats like saying that most of us would break laws if we thought we could get away with it. That’s why we have laws.

Shaun

August 7th, 2012
2:53 pm

I agree that anyone immoral enough to avoid PED’s shouldn’t be voted in to the Hall. Just like anyone immoral enough not to take a stand against segregation, immoral enough to scuff baseball, immoral enough to take amphetamines and immoral enough to play hungover or drunk should be kept out of the Hall. Morals have clearly been a consideration in Hall of Fame induction before, which is clearly why there are no such players in who have experienced any of the aforementioned moral failings.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:53 pm

and I don’t care about your argument stats, your wins and losses.

We need a weighted, park-adjusted blog-argument stat, that reduces the won-loss thing down to a stat of only those things the debater can control. Like “xRIL” – the weighted Response Independent Logic. Or something. Get VJ working on the model, immediamente.

Shaun

August 7th, 2012
2:55 pm

raleighbravefan, if baseball had laws and a means to enforce those laws, they sure didn’t do anything about it. And now they want to punish the players while the baseball establishment sits on its moral high horse. Convenient, isn’t it, that some in baseball get a pass on their moral failings while others don’t?

TheOnlyBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:56 pm

JF at 3B WILL be an option that is discussed.

definitly. hopefully it will also be very quickly dismissed.

It should go like this…

So, what do you think about 3rd Base? Juan-

NO!

y’all need to live in the real world. Bonds, not Aaron, is the home run king

Never… the guy obviously juiced up, he’s a jerk.

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
2:57 pm

Brian @2:52 – Well, there’s Mariano Rivera, then there’s……um…..

Brian from SC

August 7th, 2012
2:57 pm

And now they want to punish the players

Please…no one is “punishing” the players. They don’t have enough respect among the BWAA to get into the Hall of Fame. No one is taking away their numbers, or slapping them with a fine, or suspending them from anything.

MiaBchBravesFan

August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm

Of course, this thought: As a child, Ty Cobb was a victim of an upbringing in a post-Civil War South, backwards mores of the times, questionable parenting, and a father murdered (albeit accidentally) by a mother who was under suspicion of infidelity. Whew!

Compared to THAT, what’s Barry Bonds got to be mad about in his life? Sometimes, you’re born a jerk.

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm

Hanson, Terd and another lower level prospect for Cain of KC.

Wait. You would trade Hanson for Lorenzo bleepin’ Cain, but not for Josh Willingham?

Bayou Brave

August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm

Not that this means a whole lot, but I thought it was worth looking up…

Braves stolen bases:

Year _ # _NL Rank
2000 _ 148 _ 2nd
2001 _ 85 _ 10th
2002 _ 76 _ 12th
2003 _ 68 _ 13th
2004 _ 86 _ 9th
2005 _ 92 _ 6th
2006 _ 52 _ 16th
2007 _ 64 _ 14th
2008 _ 58 _ 13th
2009 _ 58 _ 15th
2010 _ 63 _ 14th
2011 _ 77 _ 14th
2012 _ 69 _ 9th (YTD) (on pace for 103)

TROTTINGHOME

August 7th, 2012
2:59 pm

ncscoots

August 7th, 2012
3:00 pm

Only the most foolish of fans would call scuffing a baseball and taking PEDs morally equivalent.

raleighbravefan

August 7th, 2012
3:00 pm

Shaun – Apples to oranges. Being a segregationist, per your example, may make you a jerk….an SOB, even….but it doesn’t enhance your ability to play the game.

Bayou Brave

August 7th, 2012
3:01 pm

2000 Braves stolen base team leaders were:

R. Furcal (40)
Q. Veras (25)
R. Sanders (21)
A. Jones (21)
C. Jones (14)
B. Jordan (10)

phil

August 7th, 2012
3:02 pm

TROTTINGHOME

August 7th, 2012
2:59 pm

stfu phil
************
Take your own advice, doofus….

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