Heyward using speed to Braves advantage
(Staff writer Carroll Rogers is filling in for David O’Brien this series.)
Heyward has been doing a lot of this
Philadelphia – Manager Fredi Gonzalez marveled at it during the Braves recent homestand. And it was pretty well on display last night in the series opener against the Phillies. Jason Heyward is a threat to score, simply standing on first base.
By my tally, Heyward has scored from first base five times in the Braves’ past five games. He scored the first four of those runs on doubles, but last night he managed to score from first on a single by Brian McCann which handcuffed Nate Schierhotlz in right field. Heyward was off to the races.
“We were talking about the guy scoring from first on a double, now he’s scoring from first on a base hit,” Gonzalez said after the game last night. “It was unbelievable. He played until the whistle blew. Schierholtz misplays that line drive and he gets in no man’s land there and he doesn’t stop running and he scores easy from first base.”
Heyward said he didn’t realize the ball had gotten that far away from Schierholtz.
“I’m hustling and hustling and trusting my coach after that,” Heyward said. “Once (third base coach Brian Snitker) tells me to go, I’ve got to run like heck to get home. I heard he thought he had the ball so I was able to get there a little bit easier.”
So, a rundown: Heyward scored from first on a McCann single in the seventh inning Monday night against the Phillies. He scored from first on a Chipper Jones double to left in the seventh inning Sunday against the Astros. He scored from first on a Jones double to right in the third inning on Friday night against the Astros. And he scored twice from first last Thursday against the Marlins – in the first inning on Jones’ double to left center and in the second inning on Freeman’s double to right.
This is one of those facets of the game that doesn’t really show up in the stats but it does in a manager’s mind. It’s part of why Gonzalez still feels comfortable penciling Heyward into the third spot in the Braves’ order.
Since moving him there on June 29, Heyward has hit .255 (36-for-141) with four doubles, one triple, six home runs and 17 RBIs in the third hole. He’s also stolen five bases.
Showing his combination of speed and power, Heyward also homered last night for his 18th of the season, which matched his total for his breakout rookie season in 2010. He and McCann are tied for the team lead at 18. Heyward has hit four home runs in his past 12 games.
Minor vs. Hamels
It’s Mike Minor vs. Cole Hamels tonight as the Braves try to win their eighth straight against the Phillies. If they manage to sweep this series they would match their nine-game winning streak from Aug. 15, 1996 through July 14, 1997.
Minor is 2-1 with a 1.74 ERA in his last five starts, including his last appearance against the Phillies July 28 when he held them to one run in eight innings of a 2-1 win.
I talked to him yesterday about coming to grips with allowing home runs and not letting them beat him, and I was reminded of something both Tom Glavine and Chipper have said about him. They’ve talked about how much of a difference it makes when a player realizes he belongs up here. Seems to me, Minor is in the process of making that realization.
“There’s a lot of pressure that goes with it,” Minor said. “Guys are really competitive and want to take my job and I understand it because I’ve been in that spot too. But it’s just how you deal with it.”
So how does he deal with it? Minor said he quit dwelling on the numbers of other pitchers who might be gunning for his job (like a Randall Delgado) and just started focusing on what he has to do to get better.
“If I perform, then it helps the team win; that’s the ultimate goal,” Minor said. “They won’t need anybody else up here if I’m winning.”
The Braves faced Hamels on July 27 in his first start after signing his $144 million, six-year extension. He was off his game that night, walking a career-high six batters, and lasted only five innings on 109 pitches. Hamels took the loss to Ben Sheets that night 6-1, after allowing five runs (three earned).
He bounced back with a quality start against the Nationals on Thursday, allowing three earned runs in seven innings, walking one and striking out nine, but still lost to the Nationals 3-0 on a combined shutout by Ross Detwiler, Sean Burnett and Tyler Clippard.
Hamels has given up five home runs in his past three starts, including a three-run shot to McCann on July 27.
Chipper vs. Mets and Phillies
Chipper Jones is scheduled to be back in the lineup tonight and the plan is for him to play the rest of this road trip against the Phillies and Mets. Never a good idea to rest the man against the Mets.
Chipper back in lineup tonight vs. Phils
Actually, I was looking up his old Mets numbers yesterday and realized something: for all the hype around how well Jones hits the Mets, and rightly so, he’s been all over the Phillies for his career too.
Jones has hit .316 with 49 home runs and 157 RBIs in 237 games against the Mets in his career, including the four homers in three games in 1999 to all but assure him of the National League MVP award. But he’s also hit .335, with 48 homers and 148 RBIs against the Phillies, his highest career average against any NL East team (or any team period with 100 or more games).
Jones has hit hit .309 (58-for-188) for his career in 55 games at Citizens Bank Park, with 14 doubles, one triple, 11 home runs and 31 RBIs. He hit .350 (77-for-220) in 62 games at Veterans Stadium, with 16 doubles, two triples, 13 home runs and 38 RBIs.
As for New York, Jones hit .313 (101-for-323) in 88 games at Shea Stadium, the one he named his second-to-youngest son after. He hit 20 doubles there, one triple, 19 home runs and 55 RBIs. At Citi Field, Jones is hitting .217 in 20 games with four doubles, three home runs and 13 RBIs.
Speaking of Shea, we are wishing him well in his recovery from surgery yesterday. No fun for a 7-year-old but hoping he’s back on his feet in no time.
Braves lineup:
1. Michael Bourn CF
2. Martin Prado 2B
3. Jason Heyward RF
4. Chipper Jones 3B
5. Freddie Freeman 1B
6. Brian McCann C
7. Reed Johnson LF
8. Paul Janish SS
9. Mike Minor P
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1,129 comments Add your comment
Geaux Braves
August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm
First
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm
Meds will likely never win 15 games once let alone regularly…
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:05 pm
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:01 pm
y’all need to live in the real world. Bonds, not Aaron, is the home run king
**********
Sad but true, but most of us will never view it with much legitimacy….just isn’t gonna happen.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm
I’m not worried about Bourn, even if he does accept the qualifying offer it’s only a 1 year deal for 13.5 million. We’d have our CF and leadoff man in place for another season. At a salary that he’
d most likely get on a long term deal… Also the chances of him doing that are slim to none, he won’t pass up the chance to get a huge long term deal.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:06 pm
FIFTH!!!!!!!
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
2:07 pm
Buster Olney today on the ongoing woes of the Florida, er, Miami Marlins:
“No team had more at stake when this season began than the Miami Marlins, who had tried to change almost everything about their team: A new ballpark, new roster, new colors, new uniform, new manager. Other teams have gone through makeovers in the past, but not to the extreme that we saw with the Marlins last winter.
Now, less than five months in, the Marlins are acknowledging the disaster that is their season. Sources within Major League Baseball say that the team’s attendance at Marlins Park is about 25 percent less than the team expected, and the fact that the Marlins asked for cash in a possible trade of Carlos Lee last week is a sign of larger concerns.
So where do they go from here?
Well, the payroll already has been reduced, from the $101 million at the start of this season to something much less — and presumably, there are more cuts to come. The Marlins made an astute baseball trade in unloading Hanley Ramirez and the $38 million remaining on his contract at the deadline, and they swapped a couple of veterans in Omar Infante and Anibal Sanchez. Lee and Carlos Zambrano presumably will walk away as free agents after this season.
But the problem the Marlins have now is that they have a payroll very top-heavy in high-end salaries, with some contracts that will be extremely difficult to shed unless they eat a lot of the dollars.
Ricky Nolasco is set to make $11.5 million next season, and Josh Johnson will earn $13.75 million, the last years of their respective contracts. Jose Reyes will make just $10 million in what is a heavily backloaded deal; his salary will jump to $16 million next season and then $22 million in each of the three seasons that follow. Heath Bell is making $6 million this year, and it climbs to $9 million for next year and the year after.
Mark Buehrle’s deal also is going to be ridiculously expensive in the years ahead: He’ll make $11 million next season, then a staggering $18 million in 2014 and $19 million in 2015.
The Marlins’ gamble, as they moved into their new ballpark, was that their splashy new investments would generate enough interest to pay off the contracts they took on. That hasn’t happened, and it’s hard to imagine it’s going to happen any time soon, because many of the Marlins’ baseball decisions — like the one they made in dealing Ramirez — will have to be more about managing money than about building a successful baseball team.
In the past, the Marlins have traded young stars like Miguel Cabrera and Josh Beckett and gotten good young prospects in return. But when they look to dump the contracts of players like Reyes — and that’s something they’ll have to seriously consider, whether it’s this winter or in the years ahead — they won’t get a lot in return because of the salaries involved.
For years, the Marlins competed despite an incredibly small payroll. It would be the least surprising development in baseball history if the Marlins eventually go back to that business model, but getting there will be problematic.
Mike
August 7th, 2012
2:10 pm
Nice to see JayHey finally turning into the multi-tool threat we all knew he could be. Doing a much better job fouling off the pitcher’s pitches until he can get a mistake pitch (this season). That and finally being more or less fully healthy really has made a big difference for sure.
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
2:10 pm
I’m not worried about Bourn, even if he does accept the qualifying offer it’s only a 1 year deal for 13.5 million. – VaBravesFan
Can’t see any possible way he and Boras would accept that. Coming off the best season of his career, Bourn is going to leverage that into some long-term job security. Too big a risk for a speed-centric player like h im accept a one-year deal, especially when he’s likely to get multi-year offers with average annual value as high or possibly much higher than the salary that would come with a one-year qualifying offer.
lark
August 7th, 2012
2:11 pm
please don’t start 4 lefty hitters tonight.
Put the new guy in for Bourn. Heck give Heyward a night off if you have too.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:11 pm
I see can 100 losses in the Marlins’ near future…
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm
likely 20 years down the road all the PEDS hoopla will have died down and folks will look at Bonds without all the rancor and he will be known as the home run king for all time….
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm
Nice to see JayHey finally turning into the multi-tool threat we all knew he could be. Doing a much better job fouling off the pitcher’s pitches until he can get a mistake pitch (this season). That and finally being more or less fully healthy really has made a big difference for sure.
Good point…Big difference between fouling off pitchers’ pitches and fouling off hitters’ pitches, which is what he did for a long time.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm
Good grief on those Marlins’ numbers! Who was making the decisions down there? As I like to say, do they have manure for their brains?
Sounds like a team destined for bankruptcy, frankly. And the attendance woes were writing on the walls for years. How can they claim surprise at these low numbers?
Never mind a Fidel-lover for a manager! What a disaster….
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:12 pm
It couldn’t have happened to a nicer management group. Bunch of thieves – ya reap what ya sow, you animals!!!
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm
likely 20 years down the road all the PEDS hoopla will have died down and folks will look at Bonds without all the rancor and he will be known as the home run king for all time…. — nolie
Wanna bet?
Speaking of betting, how’s that “hoopla” over Pete Rose gambling died down over these past couple of decades?
Wait till you see the percentage of Hall of Fame votes that Bonds gets when he becomes eligible this winter. I’ll predict that many are shocked at how low it is.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm
The Marlins were too aggressive this off-season, but I think one big mistake they made was hiring Ozzie. Teams take on the personality of their manager, and he’s just too extreme.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:14 pm
DOB
I agree, as I said in that same post. Some people are worried about getting burned again.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm
I don’t think so, nolie….
Bonds is a hated figure. He was and remains SUCH a big jerk that I don’t see him ever overcoming it. I guess time alone will tell. Him coming clean would be the best thing he could do.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm
and Josh Johnson will earn $13.75 million, the last years of [his] contracts.
Call ‘em in November, Frank. It might only delay the rebuilding of the rotation, but what the hey. Low-ball on the trade package and take on all the money.
ChipperisGod
August 7th, 2012
2:15 pm
Thanks Carrol. Braves are on a roll, let’s keep it up guys!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:16 pm
oh I’m sure he will get few, but I just do not think all this will continue another generation with new fans coming in all the time who have no emotional bias involved
Murph
August 7th, 2012
2:16 pm
I love watching the Marlins fall apart… Loria is as bad a guy as you’ll find in the baseball ownership fraternity.
Wow
August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm
Teheran, Delgado, and Medlen. Two of them needs to packaged in the off-season for a good OFer or a front-line starter.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm
nolie: two books – one for PED’s players, one for non-PED’s. Barry Bonds beefed up and stole a hallowed record; A-Rod is starting to break down and may not make it.
Bonds will never be the true king; he is nothing but a foppish usurper to the throne of The True HR King; Henry Louis “Hank” Aaron.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:17 pm
I agree Murph, Loria deserves to be booed
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:19 pm
Teheran, Delgado, and Medlen. Two of them needs to packaged in the off-season
Golly, maybe Medlen goes All-Star for two months and they can trade him for Willingham.
DAP
August 7th, 2012
2:19 pm
scoots Call ‘em in November, Frank. It might only delay the rebuilding of the rotation, but what the hey. Low-ball on the trade package and take on all the money.
yes.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm
nah, 20 years from now all the new fans might wonder what the big deal was all about
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm
I hope Bonds never gets recognized as anything but a cheater.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm
It’s been what, 23 years now since Rose was banned?
Not long enough. Forever won’t be long enough. He knew the precedent when he did what he did.
End of discussion for me.
As for Bonds, he deserves about zero percentage of the vote this winter. What a despicable character.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:20 pm
The Marlins have really been worse than their record indicates. For example, they have the same record as the Phillies, but the Phillies’ run differential is a huge 66 runs better (-34 to -100), The Marlins’ run differential is 4th-worst in baseball, and dropping.
UcantCLA
August 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
Ever since Bryce Harper showed up J Hey by taking second while he was slowly picking up the ball Heyward has upped his game. He noticed that Harper was using speed to win and started to do the same.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
he did nothing that 70% of the rest of them didn’t do phil, Being unlikeable is not against the rules, and he is nowhere near as despicable as Ty Cobb was
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
scoots
That’d be incredible (Medlen going all bonkers for the rest of the season, then getting us Willingham in a deal).
But that’d also break little tiger’s heart if Meds is dealt. And mine too.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:23 pm
nolie
If I were playing 15 years ago, I’d have roided up too! You bet your azz.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:23 pm
You wanna talk about a bad stretch, the Indians have lost 15 of their last 18 games, being outscored 122-51. They have lost 10 in a row by a margin of 5.7 runs per game.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:24 pm
nolie
Braves fans might be surprised if they knew who juiced and who didn’t. I think it is more than we have been lead to believe.
kenhotlanta
August 7th, 2012
2:24 pm
MiaBchBravesFan: Dude, that’s why I asked the question. I did not see that anniversary show your referred to and have not seen or heard from her in years. I don’t care how old she is or how long ago it was, she always brightened my day and I just wondered what happened to her. Thanks for the info.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:25 pm
An emotional bias and cheating don’t go hand in hand….
Cheaters remain cheaters across the years. It’s not going to change.
If I found out today that Chipper was taking that crap back in the day, then my admiration for his achievements and his place as my favorite Brave of all time, even ahead of Dale Murphy, would take a huge hit. An emotional bias in his favor is all that would save him in my eyes, but I would still then say no to the HOF for him. Period.
By the time he broke the hits record, and in my late teenage years at the time without good sense I suppose, I was thrilled for Rose breaking that record off of Show that afternoon when he did it….that emotional bias died swiftly. The cheating/gambling part never has and never will.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:25 pm
Burrito time!
Bo Graves!
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:26 pm
Cleveland has been outscored 42-9 just in their last 4 games against Minnesota, who had the worst run differential in the AL until they met up with Cleveland in the past week.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:27 pm
phil
I think if you and I knew the truth, we’d be sorely disappointed. Just sayin, not accusing any particular player.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm
Braves vs Indians
Now that’s a native American showdown I’d love to see!
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
he did nothing that 70% of the rest of them didn’t do phil, Being unlikeable is not against the rules, and he is nowhere near as despicable as Ty Cobb was
*************
No question on all counts….
But note that Cobb remains known for being a slime, even 50 years after he died. That’s not gonna change. It won’t change for Bonds either. Not a chance. But Cobb didn’t gamble on baseball, that we know of, and Cobb apparently didn’t take drugs to add five monster years to his career either.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm
I just saw how Washington beat Houston last night…
*shaking my head
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
2:28 pm
For years, the Marlins competed despite an incredibly small payroll. It would be the least surprising development in baseball history if the Marlins eventually go back to that business model, but getting there will be problematic.
I suppose the new ballpark has helped the Marlins improve their draw, though not nearly close to their target attendance.
I never thought south Florida was great for major league baseball. Then, again, I guess having an ownership that can’t sustain a competitive team doesn’t help.
Pops
August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm
J-Hey Goes yikkety tonight.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm
It’s ironic that the seemingly anti-stathead crowd is obsessed with certain statistical records and milestones, particularly when it comes to Hall of Fame voting. The crowd that many call “statheads” are the ones that realize there is no purity in statistical milestones or records (for a variety of reasons) and just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:29 pm
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:27 pm
phil
I think if you and I knew the truth, we’d be sorely disappointed. Just sayin, not accusing any particular player.
*************
You don’t have to say it….deep down, we know. I just try not to think about it.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:31 pm
It’s ironic that the seemingly anti-stathead crowd is obsessed with certain statistical records and milestones, particularly when it comes to Hall of Fame voting. The crowd that many call “statheads” are the ones that realize there is no purity in statistical milestones or records (for a variety of reasons) and just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.
Uh…what?
Andy
August 7th, 2012
2:33 pm
Enter your comments here
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
2:33 pm
During lunch, the guys on XM radio were gushing about Simmons. One guy said that a long time scout told him that Simmons was the closest thing to Jeter since Jeter. The other guy compared him favorably to Furcal.
WOW
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
2:34 pm
Over/under on Bonds getting as much support for HoF than McGuire, I will take the under. Clemons may be over the support level Big Mac had but will not get in either.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm
I was a pretty quick CF’er in my day, but I didn’t get a good jump on batted balls and I couldn’t hit for shyt! But I could steal you a base…………
nolie
August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm
But note that Cobb remains known for being a slime, even 50 years after he died. That’s not gonna change. It won’t change for Bonds either
yeas it will because Cobb was a bad man and Barry was just dislikable
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm
just want to get down to whether players’ performances were worthy of Hall of Fame induction.
Yeah, as long as the group of which you’re speaking get to decide on the definition of “performance”, rather than a bunch of ignorant BBWAA geezers.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:35 pm
We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.
That said, I suggest we begin figuring out a way to…..
DS1
August 7th, 2012
2:36 pm
raleigh
That’s good to hear…….
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:36 pm
I think Bonds will get more votes than McGwire, because his talent without roids is generally more respected than McGwire’s. But the media surely liked McGwire more on a personal level.
Murph
August 7th, 2012
2:37 pm
What did Shaun just say? Something about peaches? I didn’t understand a word of that.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:37 pm
I was a pretty quick CF’er in my day, but I didn’t get a good jump on batted balls and I couldn’t hit for shyt! But I could steal you a base
In other words, you were a one-tool player?
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:38 pm
We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.
Of those, I say Kimbrel is the least likely to be a Brave in five years. He’s got one more cheap year left in 2013, but after that, he’s going to break Papelbon’s record marks for salaries by a relief pitcher.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:38 pm
Would be nice pay-per-view action to see Ty Cobb duke it out with Barry Bonds in Hades.
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
2:39 pm
Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
Shaun’s just trying to pick a fight – and on such a lovely summer’s day.
ccrider
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
nolie, that is why you keep ALL the suspected users out of the HOF.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
The only stats that should matter are those that tell us how much a player was worth in terms of runs and, in turn, wins. Too many put too much emphasis on statistical milestones and records without any regard to context and without any regard to how they relate to runs and wins.
We now have a very good understanding of how certain measurable things players do relate to runs and wins and how to make considerations for context in those measures. Too often those things are ignored in favor of whether a player got 3,000 hits or 500 homeruns or 300 wins, etc. or, worse yet, whether a player was “feared.”
Joshua
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
nolie you are delusional to think that 20 years will erase the bad taste Bonds left in the mouths of baseball fans everywhere. True – there will be a new generation of fans who are unbiased. But NOBODY will care what the tweeners think in terms of HOF voting. I think Bonds is at MINIMUM 40 years from ever seeing the HOF.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.
He’s no Roger Bernadina.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:40 pm
Maybe for his next trick, Heyward can score from first on a sac bunt.
That might get him a spot among Evan Gattis lore, even.
bruce
August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm
Seems like Heyward is frequently sliding into home feet first (nice problem when he doesn’t need to slide… he is either so intent on sliding or Freeman is not in good enough position to help Jason decide not to slide.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm
Shaun, Bonds getting in or not getting has nothing to do with stats. I don’t think anyone would argue him as not a HOF and use stats as their basis.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:42 pm
Shaun’s just trying to pick a fight – and on such a lovely summer’s day.
I’m considering it. Even dueling with the unarmed results in good practice for a real fight, LOL.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm
Agree with Brian…Most consider Bonds and Clemens hall of fame quality without the PEDs. McGuire, not so much. Doesn’t mean a majority will overlook the PEDs, but I believe it increases the odds. For me, I probably would not vote them in. Cheaters shouldn’t prosper.
Fish Bisch
August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm
Hamel owns us
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
2:45 pm
Joshua, I agree. 20 years may be too soon. It may be closer to 50 or more before folks look back and deduce that plenty of players already in the Hall and throughout the history of the game would have most likely used PED’s if their peers were also doing it and they thought they could get away with it while they were playing. Eventually I think voters will realize that moral purity has never been a part of baseball and that the idea that players were pure before PED’s came along is an odd myth.
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm
“We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.”
They are on different arb clocks. Heyward & Kimbrel may be on the same one, but with a lot of expensive contracts coming off the books by the time these guys get paid I could see it happening. The one big question is whether or not Braves could keep them and assemble a quality starting pitching staff. If you want to assume continued progress of Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Medlen and that at least one of these guys will also be on same clock as the others choices will have to be made.
AdirondackDave
August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm
DOB (or is it Carroll?) — I agree with you on the PEDs/Hall of Fame issue whether its Bonds, McGuire, or whoever, including Arod. Blatant cheating is a disqualifier and the older BB writers and fans get, the more respect (not less) we have for traditions and they way the game should be played.
On the Bourn question and him having the best season of his career, I’m not so sure about that. And as the season wears on, he seems to be getting less productive both with the bat and on the bases. If the trend continues, his next contract can’t help but be affected. Because mainly of his defense, I still hope the Braves re-sign him or at at least offer him that 1-year qualifying offer. I just think the competing offers might be a little less mind-numbing… maybe in the $12-$14M range rather than the $15-$18 that I would have expected a couple months ago… If he finishes in the .270s and 40s in stolen bases, Braves might just be able to bring him back.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
2:47 pm
Heyward could score on a sac bunt, if we were playing the Astros in the 11th inning last night.
Murph
August 7th, 2012
2:48 pm
Too often those things are ignored in favor of whether a player got 3,000 hits or 500 homeruns or 300 wins, etc. or, worse yet, whether a player was “feared.”
I’d vote you into the blog HoF just based on how much you are “loathed” around here… and I don’t care about your argument stats, your wins and losses.
Guess I’m just as bad as those sensationalist journalists.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:50 pm
Official baseball hall of fame voting rules:
Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
Half of it looks to be based on performance, the other half on the person.
phil
August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm
“We can’t afford to keep Heyward, Freeman, Simmons and Kimbrel…..long term.”
This is, of course, the core youth on the team. It’s ALL vitally important to our success over the next 12 or so seasons, hopefully longer, recognizing that Kimbrel could crap out in 2 years or next week, for all we know. I think Kimbrel could very well last a long time IF he isn’t pitched to death in the process.
NCBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm
DOB: thanks for sharing that Olney column. WOW – didn’t realize just how much FLA had overspent on some of those guys (Buerle at $19MM in 2015? YIKES!).
PDOG
August 7th, 2012
2:51 pm
Braves need to lock up their young position players ASAP, you pay them more now to avoid Free agency down the road. Next year will be Hudson’s last with Braves so will be saving another 10 million, no JJ next year thats 5 million, and they need to trade Hanson before he hits the 5 million mark. There should be plenty of cash to lock up these young players for the next 5 to 7 years. It is also the reason why you go with Gattis and or Cuningham next year instead of trading for a Willingham.
Hanson, Terd and another lower level prospect for Cain of KC.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:52 pm
I think Kimbrel could very well last a long time IF he isn’t pitched to death in the process.
Relievers that last more than five years or so with outstanding performance are exceedingly rare.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
2:52 pm
Shaun @2:45 – Thats like saying that most of us would break laws if we thought we could get away with it. That’s why we have laws.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
2:53 pm
I agree that anyone immoral enough to avoid PED’s shouldn’t be voted in to the Hall. Just like anyone immoral enough not to take a stand against segregation, immoral enough to scuff baseball, immoral enough to take amphetamines and immoral enough to play hungover or drunk should be kept out of the Hall. Morals have clearly been a consideration in Hall of Fame induction before, which is clearly why there are no such players in who have experienced any of the aforementioned moral failings.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:53 pm
and I don’t care about your argument stats, your wins and losses.
We need a weighted, park-adjusted blog-argument stat, that reduces the won-loss thing down to a stat of only those things the debater can control. Like “xRIL” – the weighted Response Independent Logic. Or something. Get VJ working on the model, immediamente.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
2:55 pm
raleighbravefan, if baseball had laws and a means to enforce those laws, they sure didn’t do anything about it. And now they want to punish the players while the baseball establishment sits on its moral high horse. Convenient, isn’t it, that some in baseball get a pass on their moral failings while others don’t?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:56 pm
JF at 3B WILL be an option that is discussed.
definitly. hopefully it will also be very quickly dismissed.
It should go like this…
So, what do you think about 3rd Base? Juan-
NO!
y’all need to live in the real world. Bonds, not Aaron, is the home run king
Never… the guy obviously juiced up, he’s a jerk.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
2:57 pm
Brian @2:52 – Well, there’s Mariano Rivera, then there’s……um…..
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
2:57 pm
And now they want to punish the players
Please…no one is “punishing” the players. They don’t have enough respect among the BWAA to get into the Hall of Fame. No one is taking away their numbers, or slapping them with a fine, or suspending them from anything.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm
Of course, this thought: As a child, Ty Cobb was a victim of an upbringing in a post-Civil War South, backwards mores of the times, questionable parenting, and a father murdered (albeit accidentally) by a mother who was under suspicion of infidelity. Whew!
Compared to THAT, what’s Barry Bonds got to be mad about in his life? Sometimes, you’re born a jerk.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm
Hanson, Terd and another lower level prospect for Cain of KC.
Wait. You would trade Hanson for Lorenzo bleepin’ Cain, but not for Josh Willingham?
Bayou Brave
August 7th, 2012
2:58 pm
Not that this means a whole lot, but I thought it was worth looking up…
Braves stolen bases:
Year _ # _NL Rank
2000 _ 148 _ 2nd
2001 _ 85 _ 10th
2002 _ 76 _ 12th
2003 _ 68 _ 13th
2004 _ 86 _ 9th
2005 _ 92 _ 6th
2006 _ 52 _ 16th
2007 _ 64 _ 14th
2008 _ 58 _ 13th
2009 _ 58 _ 15th
2010 _ 63 _ 14th
2011 _ 77 _ 14th
2012 _ 69 _ 9th (YTD) (on pace for 103)
TROTTINGHOME
August 7th, 2012
2:59 pm
stfu phil
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:00 pm
Only the most foolish of fans would call scuffing a baseball and taking PEDs morally equivalent.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:00 pm
Shaun – Apples to oranges. Being a segregationist, per your example, may make you a jerk….an SOB, even….but it doesn’t enhance your ability to play the game.
Bayou Brave
August 7th, 2012
3:01 pm
2000 Braves stolen base team leaders were:
R. Furcal (40)
Q. Veras (25)
R. Sanders (21)
A. Jones (21)
C. Jones (14)
B. Jordan (10)
phil
August 7th, 2012
3:02 pm
TROTTINGHOME
August 7th, 2012
2:59 pm
stfu phil
************
Take your own advice, doofus….
a fan
August 7th, 2012
3:03 pm
Teheran, Delgado, and Medlen. Two of them needs to packaged in the off-season for a good OFer or a front-line starter. Wow wow glad you aint the GM
SteveinFXBG
August 7th, 2012
3:03 pm
I took a picture of Evan Gattis at a game in Chattanooga the other day. When I viewed it on the camera’s display, I got a black eye and a broken nose. Dude is strong.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
ncscoots, if something as objective as anyone can find leads “the debater” to a certain conclusion, that’s not something “the debater” can control. It is what it is, whether “the debater” likes it or not. You can’t just ignore the results because you don’t like the conclusion without making yourself look extremely biased or foolish.
Official baseball hall of fame voting rules:
“Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
Half of it looks to be based on performance, the other half on the person.
That’s all fine and dandy but “the person” has never been a consideration in Hall of Fame voting until PED’s came along.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
It’s Uggla, not Bourn or Heyward, who gets a day off today. Prado at 2nd base.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
Braves stolen bases:
Year _ # _NL Rank
2000 _ 148 _ 2nd
2001 _ 85 _ 10th
2002 _ 76 _ 12th
2003 _ 68 _ 13th
Wow, that was quite a drop…
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:05 pm
TROTTING – Damn, son…What did phil do to deserve that?
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:05 pm
That’s all fine and dandy but “the person” has never been a consideration in Hall of Fame voting until PED’s came along.
How do you know? How many baseball writers from the 1950s have you talked to about this?
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:06 pm
You can’t just ignore the results because you don’t like the conclusion without making yourself look extremely biased or foolish.
Wow. You do that with every appearance in this forum, Shaun. No offense.
Random
August 7th, 2012
3:06 pm
MiaBchBravesFan (August 7th, 2012 1:47 pm): “I guess you were there to give it to Aaron, right?”
I was there, all right, but I didn’t know the gentleman, and was certainly in no position to be his connection.
I read it in his 1992 autobiography. (Which if he had written it ten or fifteen years later, I’m sure he would have omitted that part.)
I also know that something like 4 of his best 5 or 6 HR/PA rates were in the last six or seven years of his career when not only was he chasing Ruth, but also was competing with Willie Mays to be considered the best player in baseball.
Means, motive, opportunity. And a written confession.
Things that make you go “Hmmmmmmm.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DS1 (August 7th, 2012 1:25 pm): “Where were you when I needed you last week?”
I mighta been in rehab — things are kinda fuzzy still.
”I called the Maholm/Johnson deal a week earlier, and you didn’t back me up.”
I never saw it coming — if you did, yer a genius and I tip my cap.
Shrewd trade by Wren.
”I thought you were omnipresent.”
Sometimes indeed I am.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:08 pm
Shaun @3:04 – Next time, try speaking English.
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
3:10 pm
TROTTING… no no it’s spelled… TROLLING
another aNiMaL
August 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
Heyward is a beast, admit it all you bums who called for Wren to trade or bench him in Triple A last year. Injuries are funny type of thing, once you get better you usually get on with your career. Imagine that.
Anyway, Heyward gets my vote for team MVP so far because he’s mashing the ball and wins games with his 5 tools and I am enjoying this season so much watching him. Sheets and Heyward are tied so far for Comeback Player of the Year in my eyes. Sheets gets credit for overcoming a serious arm issue and sticking through tough times, Heyward gets credit for being healthy for an extended period of time. Tough choice to figure out who wins that one..
cricket
August 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
i honestly prefer all the ridiculous bit**ing that was going on here yesterday compared to the stink of his loathsomeness
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
Uggla doesn’t have much fun against Hamels: .145 hitter in 55 ABs.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:11 pm
Means, motive, opportunity. And a written confession.
Were amphetamines a banned substance in those days? I can’t remember.
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
3:12 pm
It’s the same argument every time live voters don’t vote in lockstep with the computers. If an MVP didn’t have the highest WAR, or a Cy Young winner didn’t have the lowest xFIP, Shaun is obligated to lecture us on the folly of human reasoning.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:12 pm
Shaun – Apples to oranges. Being a segregationist, per your example, may make you a jerk….an SOB, even….but it doesn’t enhance your ability to play the game.
I think you can argue that it does. You are limiting the competition. You don’t have to go up against all of the best so the game becomes easier to you.
Of course, this thought: As a child, Ty Cobb was a victim of an upbringing in a post-Civil War South, backwards mores of the times, questionable parenting, and a father murdered (albeit accidentally) by a mother who was under suspicion of infidelity. Whew!
Compared to THAT, what’s Barry Bonds got to be mad about in his life? Sometimes, you’re born a jerk.
So you don’t think Bonds’ alcoholic father had something to do with him being a jerk? We should give Cobb a pass because of his upbringing but not Bonds? We really want to play psychologist and moralist when it comes to trying to determine whether a player’s play was worthy enough for induction into the Hall of Fame?
Only the most foolish of fans would call scuffing a baseball and taking PEDs morally equivalent.
You seriously see a major difference in these two things? They are awfully similar to me. Except with the advent of cortisone shots, dietary supplements, other medical advancements, one could certainly argue that PED use is actually more vague in terms of whether it’s cheating.
Bulldoghuff
August 7th, 2012
3:13 pm
Barry had a hof career before tha roids check tha stats. and did anyone besides me notice that when the roids drama kicked into gear chipper stopped playin for entire the season. check that too! the year he hit 40 homers he reported to camp with 15 pds of muscle gain.
another aNiMaL
August 7th, 2012
3:14 pm
Team MVP so far- Jason Heyward
Comeback Brave of the Year- Tied – Jason Heyward – Ben Sheets
Heyward is mashing, winning games with his 5 tools. I love it, hope he builds on this years’ performance for the future then we’ll have a truly scary Right Fielder that teams will start walking every other at bat like Bonds back in the day.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:14 pm
You seriously see a major difference in these two things? They are awfully similar to me.
Well, there ya go. Thus endeth the lesson.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:14 pm
Barry had a hof career before tha roids check tha stats.
Most would probably agree with you there. Pete Rose had a HOF career before he gambled on baseball.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:16 pm
Heyward has nearly caught Michael Bourn for the Braves’ lead in WAR, according to baseball-reference. It’s 4.0 to 3.9, and they’re headed in opposite directions.
I think there’s a good argument for Heyward being the Braves’ most valuable player. Craig Kimbrel has been their most outstanding player, no doubt.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:17 pm
Shaun – “I think you can argue that it does”…….UH, NO.
Shakey
August 7th, 2012
3:18 pm
What’s a “qualifying offer?” Serious question.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:19 pm
scoots @3:14 – I’m sure he has the stats to back it up, too.
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:20 pm
What’s a “qualifying offer?” Serious question.
New rule for free agent compensation. Quick summary: when a team has a player who is becoming a free agent, as long as that player played the entire previous season with the team, they can offer him a one-year deal for a salary that’s a certain percentile of the highest salaries in the league. (Most think that offer this year would be in the $12-13 million range). If the player rejects that one-year offer, the team gets a compensation draft pick if the player signs with another team as a free agent.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:21 pm
Barry had a hof career before tha roids check tha stats.
Most would probably agree with you there. Pete Rose had a HOF career before he gambled on baseball.
Yep. Shoeless Joe… They played great on the front nine, then ran a muck of the game, history, and laws of the land on the back nine.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
3:21 pm
Bulldoghuff – “the year he hit 40 homers he reported to camp with 15 pds of muscle gain.”
He did the same a couple of years ago again at 37 or 38 years old which is even more difficult. It had nothing to do with roids. I don’t know if he used PEDs or not, but adding muscles is does not necessarily mean someone’s using it.
He was in his prime.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:21 pm
Allegedly….
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:21 pm
“Qualifying offer” is sort of an equivalent to “offering arbitration” under the old set of rules for free agent compensation.
Shakey
August 7th, 2012
3:22 pm
Thank you, Brian.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:22 pm
It’s the same argument every time live voters don’t vote in lockstep with the computers. If an MVP didn’t have the highest WAR, or a Cy Young winner didn’t have the lowest xFIP, Shaun is obligated to lecture us on the folly of human reasoning.
Sometimes the MVP voters choose to ignore or simply aren’t aware of which players have done the most in terms of the things relate to creating and preventing runs. Often it is because they come to the question of who it the MVP with their own preconceived ideas in mind. They’ve basically already made up their mind about which player is most valuable. They don’t feel the need to look at the question in any sort of objective way and answer which player actually had the most value to his team in terms of creating a preventing runs, which is a vast majority of what a baseball player does to create value. Sometimes voters just vote for which player has the most hype surrounding him or which is the most memorable or which has been the most pleasurable to watch, without any regard or digging into value and the question of which player is actually the most valuable.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:22 pm
What’s a “qualifying offer?” Serious question.
A price derived from the average salaries of the top 125 players in baseball. A team losing a free agent player must make a contract offer of at least one year at that value tot hat player, in order to receive a compensation draft pick should the player sign elsewhere as a FA.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
August 7th, 2012
3:23 pm
Just noticed BMac’s AVG since the ASB is .246…thought it was a heckuva lot better than that…
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:26 pm
Shaun – If only everyone was as smart and knowledgable as you… I bow to your infinite superiority.
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
3:27 pm
“Only the most foolish of fans would call scuffing a baseball and taking PEDs morally equivalent.”
You seriously see a major difference in these two things? — Shaun
Don’t know about others, but I certainly do.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:28 pm
A price derived from the average salaries of the top 125 players in baseball.
Could be read a different way, what with all this performance talk going on.
It is the average of the top 125 salaries in baseball for that year. So, take the top 125 salaries for the 2012 season and average them, that is the value of the offer which must be made to be deemed “qualified” for draft pick compensation should the player refuse the offer and sign else where.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:28 pm
It’s just lazy to vote for the player who feels like the most valuable. Actually do some digging and determine who did the most to create runs for his team and prevent the opposing teams from scoring runs. WAR is a nice starting point, but I’m not a proponent of just looking at WAR. The more digging you do, the better. Just do the work to determine players’ values instead of going with who feels like the most valuable to you.
Bulldoghuff
August 7th, 2012
3:28 pm
True but what pete did was a first. Barry was not the only one nor was he tha first to cheat. Baseball didt gve a damn about roids until it became clear that barry was abou to brake records, as long as it was mac and sammy they were ok. Did you guys kno that when tha great babe ruth retired he did a interview with time magazine and said he used a “funny bat” 4 his entire career!(corked bat). AND THATS CHEATING SO IS STEALING SIGNS, SCUFFING THA BALL, AND NUMEROUS OTHER THINGS THAT BASEBALL FOLKS SAY IS JUST A PART OF THE GAME!
Brian from SC
August 7th, 2012
3:28 pm
For a practical example, take Michael Bourn.
Bourn will go to free agency this year. The Braves have a choice to offer him a one-year contract of probably around $13 million. They will certainly do this, not only because Bourn would almost certainly reject the offer, but because even if he did accept it, the Braves would be more than happy with that.
When he rejects the offer, the Braves can still attempt to sign him from free agency. But if they don’t, the Braves get a compensation draft pick following the first round of next year’s draft.
Other teams have tougher decisions on this front. For the Braves and Bourn, it’s pretty elementary.
DAM
August 7th, 2012
3:29 pm
Absolutely blows my mind that some people don’t want to leave Medlen in the rotation permanently. All the guy does is give his team a chance to win almost every time he takes the mound. He just knows how to get outs.
In his 20 career starts, he’s given up:
1 ER 6 times
2 ER 4 times
3 ER 5 times
4-5 ER 5 times
Two of those starts giving up 4 or 5 ER were in his first two starts of his career back in 2009. Overall, I’d say that’s pretty impressive for a guy who’s been jerked in and out of the rotation so many times.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:29 pm
Don’t know about others, but I certainly do.
I think many, many people do.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
3:30 pm
Any writer that votes for Bonds in the HOF ballot needs to be fired…
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:31 pm
True but what pete did was a first.
So Pete Rose was the first person in baseball history to be banned for life for gambling on baseball? What game are you watching?
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:32 pm
“Voters” – a novel concept that involves multiple humans making decisions on the same subject, using individually varying priorities in the decision-making process, with the intent of producing a consensus from chaos.
Entire countries have been known to execute this concept without being consumed by black holes. It’s even been known to result in good outcomes, and requires no silicon.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
3:33 pm
BMac for July was .296/.354/.704/1.059.
He has only 2 hits this month.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
3:33 pm
Uggla doesn’t have much fun against Hamels: .145 hitter in 55 ABs.
Give him a breather tonight.
Just noticed BMac’s AVG since the ASB is .246
Yikes! Let Rossy start
LT200
August 7th, 2012
3:34 pm
It should be noted that Rose is banned for actions when he was a manager not a player, plus it has never been proven that he bet on the Reds to LOSE. That is why he should be in the hall. Bonds cheated as a player and that is why he should not ever get into the HOF.
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
3:34 pm
Brian from SC: Agree with you entirely on your 3:28 comment.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:37 pm
Shaun – Stats are certainly important part of MVP determination. But there’s more to it than that. You can’t quantify everything with just numbers. For example, is a guy who has the best WAR, or any other stat that you deem worthy, on a last place team, more valuable than a guy with lesser pure numbers, but who did a lot of things, including intangables, to help his team win a division?
It’s not the best player, but the most VALUABLE player…which, in itself, is a matter of opinion.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:37 pm
“Only the most foolish of fans would call scuffing a baseball and taking PEDs morally equivalent.”
You seriously see a major difference in these two things? — Shaun
Don’t know about others, but I certainly do.
How so? Is it about breaking laws of the land? If so, don’t we have to consider keeping out any player with legal troubles out of the Hall? Is it about possibly harming your body? If so, don’t we have to consider keeping any player who used any sort of drug out of the Hall?
It’s not clear to me how doing one thing that is clearly against the rules to try to gain an edge is all that different from doing PED’s.
I certainly would be disappointed in someone I know using PED’s to gain an edge in athletics (even if they got away with it) more so than I would be if that person had scuffed a ball. But my personal feelings shouldn’t affect whether one is more morally reprehensible in terms of keeping a person out of the Hall of Fame.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
3:42 pm
But my personal feelings shouldn’t affect whether one is more morally reprehensible
My gosh, man, how do you think a civilized community arrives at its definition of morality, if not for “personal feelings”?
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:43 pm
LT200 – So it’s OK for a manager to bet on his team, as long as he bets they win? If you believe that, you have no clue. It’s all about the integrity of the game.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:46 pm
raleighbravefan, first of all, MVP is an individual award. If a player clearly did more than another, the quality of his teammates doesn’t affect whether he is the most valuable player.
Second, I’m all for considering intangibles. So if you know or strongly suspect that, say, Jimmy Rollins’ intangibles in 2007 made up the tangible difference between Rollins and Pujols or Wright or Utley, by all means vote for Rollins. But the difference in the tangibles was so large, it seems extremely unlikely that the intangibles made up the difference between Rollins and those other players. And how do we know that Pujols or Wright or Utley’s intangibles didn’t help their teams as much or more than Rollins’ intangibles helped his? Intangibles just seems like something some voters hide behind to avoid the question of value and arguments about value and to get behind the guy they feel should win.
GTI in Brooklyn
August 7th, 2012
3:48 pm
I know I wasn’t the only one peeking in at the Nats v. Astros game late last night.
This breakdown of the key play in the 10th by Grant Brisbee is a must read for Braves fans. I won’t even spoil it by quoting any of it here. Just give it a look…
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/8/7/3226043/houston-astros-bad-play-oh-man-what-is-this-i-dont-even
bfred
August 7th, 2012
3:48 pm
Hard to say on McGwire – he hit 49 homers his rookie year when he was shaped like a pencil and averaged mid-30s each of the next few seasons. He was hurt ‘93 and ‘94 and the numbers take off after that, probably because he started using PEDs to improve recovery and realized the potential benefit. Absent PEDs I’d say he had HOF talent but probably not longevity.
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
3:49 pm
Baseball is not the only sport concerned about the integrity of the game. The NFL suspends players/coaches/GMs for a year over bounties and the Olympics is sending athletes home for not trying their best. In all sports compete honestly to your best ability or be prepared to suffer the consequences.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
3:51 pm
raleighbravefan, but if the tangibles are close and if we have good reason to believe one player’s intangibles did affect his team in a positive way, I’m fine with considering intangibles.
Where I have a problem with it is when the tangible difference is so significant that it is a stretch to believe that a player’s intangibles made that much of a difference. In those cases it seems like voters are hiding behind intangibles to vote for some guy that they feel should win, regardless of what all the evidence and reasoning says about who should win.
Supes
August 7th, 2012
3:51 pm
Barry Bonds was a GREAT player before he went the way of the PED to catch up with Sosa and McGwire…that folks is the awful shame in it all…he didn’t need them…he was going to the HOF without them and was going to be one if not the greatest position player in his generation…
I surely hope he doesn’t get in for a very long time…just like the rest of them, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc that whole crew…Clemens, Pettite (who somehow gets a free pass), A-Rod and everyone else.
PS…I’m sure that scuffing a baseball was as “dirty as PED’s” just ask BRADY ANDERSON for the Orioles how much was it to hit 50HR one year…50! (from that shrimp) I doubt that scuffing a baseball will lower your ERA in half or double your wins or lower your WHIP, etc (take your pic Shaun)
Liking Freddie but not Fredi
August 7th, 2012
3:53 pm
In RE: Barry Bonds
Only the most homerish or homers could say that Barry Bonds was not a legend. I watched that guy when he played against us as a Pittsburgh Pirate, and he was a beast. He was putting up Hall of Fame numbers and winning MVPs then, and that was long before the whole PED era. You can say that his numbers were inflated (even though there is a very good statistical argument that hitting numbers were not abnormally inflated during that time right here http://steroids-and-baseball.com/), but to say that Barry Bonds would not have made it to the Hall of Fame except for steroids is being beyond homerishly ignorant. The test should be whether one would have made the Hall of Fame without inflation from enhancements…and way prior to PED era, Bonds was a monster in every category of the game. Every single year, even prior to the PED era, Bonds was racking up MVP, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, and All Star appearances. To deny that he was hall of fame worthy, even not considering PED inflation, bespeaks ignorance.
Finally, if we are going to exclude people from the Hall of Fame based on morality, then Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth should not be anywhere near the Hall of Fame.
Now I am far from a Bonds fan. As a lifelong Braves fan I deplored watching him come to the plate; and I hated the way he often acted in the media…but to deny that the man was one of the greatest baseball players to ever live is asinine – with or without PEDs.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:53 pm
Shaun – I STRONGLY disagree with your definition of MVP. I believe it is the person who was most valuable to their team, going back to my example. You disagree. This is the gist of the argument. Every voter has their own criteria. This does not make you right, or anyone else wrong…no matter how many stats you wish to use.
Trader Jack
August 7th, 2012
3:55 pm
Braves Starting Lineup
1. Michael Bourn (L) CF
2. Martin Prado (R) 2B
3. Jason Heyward (L) RF
4. Chipper Jones (S) 3B
5. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
6. Brian McCann (L) C
7. Reed Johnson (R) LF
8. Paul Janish (R) SS
9. Mike Minor (R) P
Remley
August 7th, 2012
3:55 pm
Hank will always be the true home run king! Besides PEDs Bonds was allowed to bat using a massive amount of body armour and the umps refused to call anything a strike unless it was grooved. Selig thought Bonds hitting 70 plus homers would increase TV money.
williamkempIII@gmail.com
August 7th, 2012
3:55 pm
As vague as it sounds Raleigh is right. The key phrase is ‘the integrity of the game.’
Glad Uggla is out today. Career numbers against Hamels makes that decision fairly easy. Also, I like it because Uggla has had some recent success in the past few games. Sit him for a day and let him enjoy the plate confidence. Clear his head, and see if he can get back out there and perform tomorrow against a struggling righty, Kendrick.
chc4
August 7th, 2012
3:56 pm
Equating a pitcher scuffing the ball to Bonds taking PEDs for many years then lying about is like claiming armed robbery and shoplifting are the same thing. Both are against the rules/law, right?
TomahawkChoppin'
August 7th, 2012
3:58 pm
One thought on Heyward….he still has to cut down on strikeouts in the 3 hole. He is doing everything else right in the 3 hole and in the field. Sure glad he lost that weight because he is still hitting homeruns. He has become electrifying on the paths.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
3:58 pm
OK Shaun …here it is. I will continue to believe what I believe, and you continue to believe what you believe. I will not change your mind, and you aren’t changing mine. You can be as smug and arrogant as you wish.
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
3:58 pm
GTI in Brooklyn, I just watched that play and am still laughing. As bad as it was though it looks like a good throw home may have gotten an out.
One Big Dummy
August 7th, 2012
3:59 pm
Shaun likes to hear himself talk (or type, as the case may be).
Braveone
August 7th, 2012
4:01 pm
From the previous blog which had 1,341 comments, Efrim led the way with 64 posts. There were 144 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 Efrim 64
2 JC Brave 52
3 MiaBchBravesFan 50
4 ACE 49
5 Pace 40
6 Mixxo 37
7 Mark 34
8 SNEAKY PETE 34
9 Capt.Mudd 33
10 Arkansas Transplant 32
11 Jerry 31
12 raleighbravefan 31
13 Brian from SC 30
14 TheOnlyBravesFan 30
15 Ward 28
16 kenhotlanta 28
17 DS1 27
18 ncscoots 27
19 brian 24
20 Lew 22
21 phil 22
22 Half Empty 21
23 cricket 21
24 nolie 21
25 Jeff R 20
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
4:01 pm
raleighbravefan, I agree that it is the person that is most valuable to his team. I just don’t think that because a player’s teammates are bad that means that player, as an individual player, is less valuable to his team.
And if a voter can just make up his own criteria, without regard to value, why not vote for Jack Wilson? I can just say his intangibles made him more valuable than someone like McCutchen. That’s my criteria and my assumption. You can’t argue with me or build a case against my vote for Jack Wilson because I used my criteria and it doesn’t make me wrong.
Do we really want to go down that path? Or do we want voters to strongly consider a player’s value and take that task fairly seriously, insofar as sports awards should be taken seriously?
DAP
August 7th, 2012
4:03 pm
freddie not fredi if we are going to exclude people from the Hall of Fame based on morality, then Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth should not be anywhere near the Hall of Fame.
i think most people understand that what people care most about is the integrity of the game, not the integrity of an individual. not saying thats right or wrong, but i think the disdain for bonds and rose is because it threatens the game as a whole.
DAM
August 7th, 2012
4:04 pm
For comparison’s sake, for his career, Medlen has allowed 4 or 5 ER in 25% of his starts, despite being asked to give spot-starts and being yo-yoed back and forth.
Hanson has allowed 4 ER or more 24 times in 97 starts, 24.7% of his starts (and 9 of those were 6 or more ER).
GTI in Brooklyn
August 7th, 2012
4:05 pm
Heisenberg:
That’s the thing, they still could have saved the run. Brisbee’s breakdown of the whole thing is hysterical. His fifth reason, though, meant I had to share it here. ‘Cause that was exactly me – and I’m many of the rest of you, too – as I watched last night.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:05 pm
This also make me lean a tad bit more on whether Wren makes a qualOffer to Bourn. They seem to “fear the hit” in such cases and like to point to Maddux and probably now Soriano as apt reasons why it is best to forgo draft pick comps.
There is absolutely no reason Frank Wren shouldn’t make the qualifying offer to Michael Bourn. None. I think it is a fireable offense if he chooses to not do so, and I believe he would be laughed at among every circle of people who are apart of this organized sport.
There are two players who are no doubters to be the first players ever to receive this offer under the new CBA, Texas Rangers outfielder Josh Hamilton and Atlanta Braves outfielder Michael Bourn.
Slam…..dunks. And if not, then people need to start questioning Frank Wren’s ability to be the General Manager of the team. And I know Wren isn’t that stupid.
There. Whew.
DAP
August 7th, 2012
4:06 pm
shaun And if a voter can just make up his own criteria, without regard to value, why not vote for Jack Wilson? I can just say his intangibles made him more valuable than someone like McCutchen. That’s my criteria and my assumption.
thats fine. when you get a MVP vote, cast it however you want.
Tumbledown
August 7th, 2012
4:06 pm
It’s just lazy to vote for the player who feels like the most valuable. Actually do some digging and determine who did the most to create runs for his team and prevent the opposing teams from scoring runs. WAR is a nice starting point, but I’m not a proponent of just looking at WAR. The more digging you do, the better. Just do the work to determine players’ values instead of going with who feels like the most valuable to you.
I wish I had the time to do the digging Shaun advocates. Luckily, I can rely on Shaun to do the digging for me. Seriously, I find your posts very thought provoking, especially the part where I first try to figure them out. Anyway, I am enjoying the debate here today. My two cents:
(1) I don’t think that Bonds’s perceived PEDs use will be forgotten for a long time when it comes to the Hall of Fame use. People have not forgotten about Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose.
(2) Past hall of famers probably did get a break in terms of character determination as the press in general was more kindly in the past.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:08 pm
Hello everyone! What about trading Hudson, and Hanson for a bat, and then taking that money to sign Bourn. We sign Sheets, and we still have a sarting rotation of Medlen, Sheets, Maholm, Delgado, Minor until Beachy is ready. Hudson is 37, and will be 38 next year, and he making 9 millinon a year.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:09 pm
Other teams have tougher decisions on this front. For the Braves and Bourn, it’s pretty elementary.
Honestly, now that Hamels is signed, Ethier is signed and Greinke was traded – I’m just not sure I see another player and team situation that makes sense for the offer. Nick Swisher and the Yankees? Perhaps, but even Cashman would probably be against locking up Swisher on a one year, 13 million dollar deal. I mean, it’s possible – but I’m thinking they will pass and look for a different player in RF. I could be wrong though. He’s the only other candidate. Giants aren’t giving Cabrera 13 million.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
4:09 pm
Uggla getting the night off, good.
Off to run, later folks
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:09 pm
I wish I had the time to do the digging Shaun advocates. Luckily, I can rely on Shaun to do the digging for me.
That comes perilously close to renting out your brain, my man.
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:10 pm
Wow. Jumped back on here in the middle of another Shaun-der Storm.
Where’s the duct tape?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:10 pm
Bonds was a Hall of fame ball player before he juiced up in San Francisco, which is sad.
On the subject of Micheal Bourn………..
There are lots of fans in denial. Especially here. He’s gone, period and it’s obvious as to why. Does anybody remember the Derek Lowe signing? Wren got burned. Not to mention that Wren likes to get things done early on in the off season,while historically Scott Boras almost always holds out until the last minute for top dollar. Also, this is Bourn’s big payday.His first free agency. Dude is getting paid, period. And I’m talking Carl Crawford money.
As in 18 to 20 million per season for at least six years or more. Which anybody with common sense knows is way outside the Braves budgetary constraints.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:11 pm
Jimmy, worst is past. We’re taking the tarp off, even as we speak.
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:12 pm
Ward – Just to clear the air, CraZy, Murph and I were just messing with you yesterday. You good today?
DS1
August 7th, 2012
4:12 pm
Why do you guys even argue with Shaun? Posting to him is like throwing twenty dollar bills down the shyt hole.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:14 pm
Yeah, it was a god mess, and maybe I deserved it?
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
4:14 pm
Okay, David Wright plays on a team that is likely to finish under .500 and out of the playoff picture. Yet most of the tangible measures suggest he’s one of the 2-3 best players in the National League.
If the Mets do indeed finish out of contention, where does he deserve to finish in the MVP voting? Should we assume that Ryan Zimmerman or Scott Rolen or Chipper Jones or Pedro Alvarez’s intangibles should put them over Wright because they play on winning teams? How much credit do we give intangibles, since we by definition have to assume that intangibles are leading to wins and can’t actually measure them in any way?
What’s to stop a voter from claiming Pedro Alvarez’s intangibles (plus tangibles) made him more valuable than David Wright? If we to some degree care about the MVP award, shouldn’t we require voters to think things through and build a case and an argument, at least to themselves, instead of throwing up our hands and saying, “voters can have their own criteria and it doesn’t mean they are wrong”?
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:15 pm
ncscoots –
OK then, I’ll grab a hotdog and take my seat.
Ward, one more thing. We can’t trade Husdon (10/5) without his approval. I think he likes it here.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:15 pm
meant to say it was a good mess with, and I deserved……
DawgDad
August 7th, 2012
4:15 pm
ooh, I LIKE that lineup!
.255 average aside since June 29, Heyward is a budding superstar who should have been in the 3-hole right out of Spring Training.
The odds of Bourn resigning here would appear to be on-par with my odds of winning the Lottery (I don’t play). But you can win simply by not losing, and that is a far more certain path to follow. Just hope the Braves don’t approach centerfield next year like they did shortstop coming out of Spring Training.
There is a common theme underlying the Marlins, Heyward, Jones, Minor, and the Bourn contract situation. Youth needs to be served. The fans will respond to good young prospects busting their butts much more than than they will to whiny or dispassionate or overpaid veterans, and in the case of Bourn (who does not appear to be whiny or dispassionate) teams like the Braves and Marlins need to be VERY careful not to overcommit payroll to individual players. Simmons lit this fan base on fire. Heyward does the same; he’s exciting and compelling to watch. Medlen is a bulldog on the mound fans appreciate, likewise Kimbrel. Freeman is another fan favorite. And the MVP of this team is Martin Prado, not the big-$ guys (Chipper deserves an honorable mention for his play).
Pops
August 7th, 2012
4:16 pm
Shaun is the Philly Phanatic.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:17 pm
Huddy is manking 9 million, and Hanson is making a good chunk. We just trade those two, and that would help create more money to sign Bourn, and Prado both.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
August 7th, 2012
4:17 pm
TennPaul BMac for July was .296/.354/.704/1.059.…He has only 2 hits this month.
Yeah, the last part of that homestand wasn’t so great for his personal numbers—but the Fillies will help get things back up!…
He has been walking a lot more lately, though…
Fols
August 7th, 2012
4:17 pm
Ah those were some good days! Lounges, bars, people flocked to the TV screen with every at-bat.
McGwire, Bonds, Sosa……cheating or not, they sure took an entire era of baseball and gave it the attention that is usually reserved for the NFL.
Drugs or not (okay just drugs)….that was an exciting couple of years.
Just add them all into the HOF on the same year to limit the critics…..boom, they get their own mini section in the hall and be done with it. People will cry about it for a year, then visit the hall because the next thing you know, it becomes the greatest marketing move by baseball in years.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:18 pm
I like Medlen, Sheets, Maholm, Delgado, and Minor for next years rotation, and then you send Delgado back down when Beachy gets back.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:19 pm
Shaun @4:01 – My final comments on the subject – One team can finish in last place no matter what a player does. Another team would not have made the post season without the efforts of a particular player. Which is more valuable? My OPINION is that the guy that got you to the playoffs is the more valuable guy. You believe whatever you wish.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:19 pm
Enter your comments here
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:21 pm
I think the next couple HOF votes will be pretty interesting…
Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa all 1st time on the Ballot in 2013… My guess is Jack Morris or Jeff Bagwell gets in next year…
Then in 2014 you add Maddux, Glavine, Schilling and Frank Thomas to the list….
My guess is Maddux and Glavine are the only 2 that makes it in 2014.
Assuming Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sosa, McGwire, Piazza and Thomas haven’t been voted in. you can add Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and John Smoltz in 2015 to the list.
I think Clemens and Bonds will eventually get in maybe, but not anytime soon… Too many good players will be up against them in the near future…
DS1
August 7th, 2012
4:21 pm
Ward
It’s possible that Hanson could be traded this winter, but Hudson is going nowhere.
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
4:21 pm
What if Bourn breaks his leg on the last day of the season (or any injury that keeps him out of the game for most of 2013)? Should the Braves make him a qualifying offer then?
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:21 pm
Anyone heard from Bat lately?
Or have I just missed him on here.
I wonder if Murph ever made it to Gattis Ford, over in Forney, to get his new truck? They say you can’t beat a Gattis Deal!
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
4:22 pm
As much of a prick Bonds was, I don’t care one way or the other about what he did in his career – I frankly could care less. That said, comparing amphetamines to PED’s is like comparing Bayer children’s aspirin to Morphine – to me, there’s no comparison. Comparing a drug that peps you up to a physiology-changing/enhancing/growth drug is a no-brainer to me. When Bonds broke Aaron’s HR record, he illegally usurped something he had no legal right to take over. That’s when I started to care. And given my value system, if I were a Giants fan, I wouldn’t feel too good about a guy who overtook a record under illegal premises with a buff body by DuPont.
At the end of the day, pedestrian, illegally-prescribed, illegitimate non-medical, not legitimate medical, & personal use of steroids is ILLEGAL. Ergo – ipso- facto, Bonds is NOT the HR king under any legitimate or legal definition. What should have happened in the behind-the-scenes exoneration of Bonds should’ve been the forfeiture of the HR record in exchange for his “release” from guilt.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:23 pm
DS1- Just think of the money you could create? Sheets could easily take Huddys’ spot.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:24 pm
ward u left off hudson
Hudson
Sheets
Medlen
Maholm
Minor
i say hanson,delgado are gone,rem braves mgmt. wanted dempster
would not be suprised to see tehran gone also
hanson is boras frank so trade him
DAP
August 7th, 2012
4:25 pm
efrim I’m thinking they will pass and look for a different player in RF
the answer to that was eariler in your post. who out there is better? are the yanks gonna try to trade for an outfielder or just wait for the next big slugger to be a free agent? they may offer it to swisher because there arent a ton of better OF options out there.
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:26 pm
Ward… 9 million is a good value for Huddy plus he’s a 10-5 guy I’d rather work out a new deal for 2 years something like 2 years 15 million. 7.5 per year for 2 years. I’m fine with trading Hanson, but it’s not that often you’ll see a team like us trade a player that’s still under control. As for Sheets he’s just as likely to sign after the season as he is now… I’d rather wait till the season is over before we decide to sign him. Our luck we’d sign him and he’d throw arm out next week.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:26 pm
Can’t see any possible way he and Boras would accept that. Coming off the best season of his career, Bourn is going to leverage that into some long-term job security. Too big a risk for a speed-centric player like h im accept a one-year deal, especially when he’s likely to get multi-year offers with average annual value as high or possibly much higher than the salary that would come with a one-year qualifying offer. – DOB
Exactly. It makes too much sense for th Braves to offer it just in case Bourn leaves(likely) so that the Braves can secure player compensation for it. And in Michael/Boras’s case, it makes too much sense for them to decline.
Oh yeah, and Boras has one week to accept the offer around like November 10th. Braves get five days from the last out of the World Series to decide to offer it and from that point, Boras and Bourn get a week to decide if they want to turn down multi year offers that will come to him during the winter meetings just to go with a one year offer at most likely a less AAV.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
I’m done with Hanson, so if we trade him there won’t be much lost.
Unless he’s the winning pitcher when we win the World Series this fall.
Then he becomes……FAVORITE CURRENT BRAVE PITCHER OF ALL 2012 TIME! That’s right, that’s a category.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
Thanks for the work DOB.
GO BRAVES!!
Last 9 Starts of the Starting 9
_________AVG__OBP__SLG___OPS_wOBA_L9S9+
Bourn__ .158 .238 .158 0.396 .193 ____2
Prado__ .263 .349 .342 0.691 .338 ___76
Heyward .289 .341 .553 0.894 .424 __124
Chipper .367 .459 .667 1.126 .448 __183
Freeman .394 .487 .515 1.002 .446 __155
McCann_ .226 .368 .452 0.820 .368 __107
Reed___ .371 .421 .543 0.964 .445 __143
Janish_ .250 .294 .313 0.607 .274 ___54
Minor__ .000 .056 .000 0.056 .036 __-85
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
Jimmy – I good……. Just would like that bat we need, and would feel a lot better if Wren got us one, but we will probably have to wait until next year?
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
or better yet since mnor wanted to be traded during spring training,trade him,keep delgado
if hanson is still on team he is the greg norton of 2013
2011 greg norton
2012 matt dplay diaz,jack hack at air wilson
2013 tommy hanson
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:27 pm
Ward – for the last time, you CAN’T trade Huddy…Oh, never mind.
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
4:28 pm
raleighbravefan, here’s the problem: Most teams that make the postseason would not have done it without many of the players on their teams, even players that weren’t so great. A team that makes the playoffs by 2 games wouldn’t have done it without every player who was worth over 2 wins throughout the course of a season. So is every 2-win player on that team more valuable than, say, an 8-win player on a non-playoff team?
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:29 pm
they may offer it to swisher because there arent a ton of better OF options out there.
He’s the other possibility. It’s a tough call for Cashman. I don’t see other tough calls. Maybe Edwin Jackson who already accepted a one year 10 million dollar offer from the Nationals last year? Seems like another interesting decision on their part.
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:30 pm
CraZy – Forgot about Huddys’ contract, and I like Huddy too. Just thinking how much I like Bourn. Just an idea to create money for Bourn.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:30 pm
Shaun – I said I was done, but this IS my FINAL final comment. It’s NOT the best player, or the player with the best stats, it’s the MOST VALUABLE play, and value is subjective…sorry, but it just is. You believe what you want, but each voter does so based on HIS definition of most valuable to his team. If you don’t get that, or don’t like it, tough Shydt.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:30 pm
I actually wanted Heyward to sit tonight……
I thought Fredi wanted to give someone a rest, but didn’t think it would be Uggla who has been producing in the small sample size of six games in August.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:31 pm
cheating is cheating, once it occurs its just a matter of the extent, you are still a sinner either way. but if you are going to argue extent, it could be said that doing exactly what 70% of the rest of your peers are doing is less cheating .
No difference between greenies and PEDS from a moral standpoint so don’t throw that bull around. PEDS affected performance more, but the vast majority were using so it was still a pretty even field. or Since we have no idea who exactly did or did not we should just ban every player from that era
several mebers have assured us that there are already cheaters in the Hall
Kyle
August 7th, 2012
4:31 pm
Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel… Of those 4 I’d let Freeman walk or trade him eventually. He does not make contact often enough and strikes out way to much.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:32 pm
Know what bonds and pres.clinton have in common?
MOST DO IT,THEY JUST HAPPEN TO GET CAUGHT
Funny how back then,pitchers pitched complete games all the time.
Wonder what they were smoking,
And warren spahn with that many victories,come on
just because no name does not mean it was not legal back then
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:32 pm
Great blog from Carroll. Back to a convo from a few blogs earlier, it’s why I’d take Heyward over Freeman moving forward no questions asked. Jason provides more on the bases and in the field, and is at least equal offensively – and I think he’s going to be a better hitter when they are both in their peak years.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:32 pm
What if Bourn breaks his leg on the last day of the season?…Should the Braves make him a qualifying offer then?
Depends on whether he’ll ever race again, or be put out to stud.
Oh, wait…
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:33 pm
Of those 4 I’d let Freeman walk or trade him eventually. He does not make contact often enough and strikes out way to much.
Freeman makes plenty of contact. That doesn’t make any sense.
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:34 pm
Ward – I feel we’ll get a corner OF in the offseason. Atleast one, if not two.
If Bourn moves on (likely), Heyward can move to CF. We need Prado at third, so we might end up needing two corner fielders.
Unless……the answer is EVAN GATTIS!
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:34 pm
Save the money and sign josh hamilton,i rather have hamilton than resign bourn
Then he be even closer to me and raleigh
Lew
August 7th, 2012
4:34 pm
“I agree that anyone immoral enough to avoid PED’S shouldn’t be voted into the Hall.” Shaun
Does this mean you agree or disagree with what exactly?
“Immoral Acts” also mentioned – 1. Taking a stand against segregation 2. Scuffing baseballs 3. Taking amphetamnines 4. being hungover 5.Getting drunk Which one does not seem to fit?
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:34 pm
IIRC Heyward has Ked a good bit more than Freeman this year
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:35 pm
All, have a good one!, and forget about yesterday. I’m cool, and all be excellent to one another, and Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
Hillbilly
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
I thought Fredi wanted to give someone a rest, but didn’t think it would be Uggla who has been producing in the small sample size of six games in August.
I figured Fredi would go this route resting Uggla. Seems like he’s been more prone to play the historical matchup over the hotter hand, and Uggla has been bad against Hamels. Quite a few strikeouts if memory serves me.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
SIGN JOSH HAMILTON
WHY R THE BRAVES INTERESTED IN NICK SWISHER?OMG
Ward
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
Gattis would be nice, and that kid hits a ton, and why not Todd Cunningham? Peace out! Talk tonight, and be cool……”Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
“Of those 4 I’d let Freeman walk or trade him eventually. He does not make contact often enough and strikes out way to much.”
You are talking about Marvin Freeman, right?
DAP
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
kyle I’d let Freeman walk or trade him eventually. He does not make contact often enough and strikes out way to much.
uh….this is new, because i think we very rarely see anything but gushing positives about freddie freeman on this blog.
me, id extend kimbrel, heyward, anf freeman as soon as possible. lock them all up. the braves may be locked into a payroll for a long time, and they need to make the most of it by doing something they dont do much and locking up their young players. even if it bites them, its a risk they have to take.
id give simmons another season or two before signing him long term.
AGTFan
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
HOF should be about baseball. I’m not bothered by Bonds being a jerk. I am bothered by him cheating at the game of baseball by taking PEDs. In my opinion, cheating disqualifies you from consideration. If bonds had retired 5 years earlier, he’d be in the HOF. He had incredible skills. That’s the most baffling part of the whole story to me.
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
If Bourn moves on (likely), Heyward can move to CF.
Along with Prado to SS.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:38 pm
oK FANS HERE U GO
given a choice sign bourn or hamilton
im taking hamilton
Brave Decisions
August 7th, 2012
4:39 pm
Peter Moylan http://wp.me/p2lqJ1-bU
Train Wreck Bystander
August 7th, 2012
4:40 pm
re: HOFers
I believe Rose & Bonds will be inducted after they have shuffled off this mortal coil, but not before. The HOF will not reward them while they are alive to bask in it.
Re: Phillies
I have to admit – I love these “new look” Phillies.
GO BRAVES
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:40 pm
SIGN JOSH HAMILTON
Listen, man, are you aware that there is a test you are supposed to take before being allowed to post in this forum from a phone? I don’t want to see you get into trouble.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:40 pm
Heyward has Ked a good bit more than Freeman this year
Heyward is on pace to strikeout more than 160 times, I believe. Little alarming, although I swear, every time I think the kid is starting to revert back to poor play – he goes and hits a single off a LHP and crushes a HR in his next at bat. Every single time you think it’s a bad streak coming…..boom.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
Efrim – Uggla is likely sitting, due to his truly miserable history against Hamels.
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love the guy, but If I had to pick one to trade I’m trading Kimbrel… He’s going to be making HUGE money in a few years and we probably won’t be able to afford to pay a closer that kind of money!!
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
Moving Heyward to CF actually makes sense. We already know Prado’s our 3rd sacker next season.
phoenix
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
Strong lineup today! Good bats, good gloves all around.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
How is jc boscan still on the 40 man roster?
Arkansas Transplant
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
You would think that Uggla would be playing today after getting 2 hits yesterday for the first time in forever.. he might be on the verge of heating up a bit. Specially given that he’s RH and a LH is on the mound. Probably should have moved Heyward to CF and sat Bourn instead.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
In my opinion, cheating disqualifies you from consideration.
ok then, Aaron took greenies which was cheating so throw him out. Cheating can’t be morally wrong based on how effective it is, it is either wrong or it isn’t.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:41 pm
this is new, because i think we very rarely see anything but gushing positives about freddie freeman on this blog.
Agreed.
Arkansas Transplant
August 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
One possibly for next year is to move Prado to 3rd and work Juan out in LF.
AGTFan
August 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
I think locking up Kimbrel, Heyward, and Freeman, is a no-brainer. I’d give Simmons another season first.
King of Carrot Flowers
August 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
I like the lineup tonight. Although the timing of Uggla’s day off is a little surprising, considering yesterday was the first game in months when he seemed to have some idea what to do with a bat in his hands.
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love the guy, but If I had to pick one to trade I’m trading Kimbrel… He’s going to be making HUGE money in a few years and we probably won’t be able to afford to pay a closer that kind of money!!
Though… When we sign McCann for too long of a contract next year and his knees can’t handle catching when he’s 34 or so we might need to trade Freeman to make room for him at 1B?
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
Heyward is on pace to walk 65 times and strikeout 161 times.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:43 pm
You do realise that my name on here is true.,from 1980-1984
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:43 pm
Freeman is on pace to walk 54 times and striekout 119 times.
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:44 pm
How is jc boscan still on the 40 man roster?
Simple we need a 3rd catcher and there not ready to add one of the others yet!!
Chris h.
August 7th, 2012
4:45 pm
What Atlanta will do with Michael Bourn this offseason.. http://www.bravesbanter.con
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
Wow, reading through this afternoon’s blog. Who put the PEDs in Shaun’s Coco Puffs this morning? Talk about being wound up!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
I have to admit that all the Ks surprise me a bit Erim. I figgered he’d K a fair amount , but 160 would be above what I imagined
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
You guys have short memory
Braves mgmt.cannot make up there minds.Wose than a ……..
Anyways braves were looking to tade prado multiple times then changed minds.
Who knows what will happen in 2013?
According to maylan,world ends on dec.21
Can they move the superbowl up please?
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
4:47 pm
Braves will not have to choose between Hamilton or Bourn as they cannot play cards at that table.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:47 pm
Shoeless Jo Jackson has been dead for sixty years (1887-1951) and he’s no closer to Cooperstown than the day he was banned in 1920.
Braves Scout
August 7th, 2012
4:47 pm
And yes posting on a phone doing 85mph is awesome,try it some time
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:49 pm
According to maylan,world ends on dec.21
Bullchiat… They traveled to 2015 in Back to the Future!!!
HOF 10
August 7th, 2012
4:49 pm
I said in April that we had to hit Jason third and the response was pretty much that I was nuts. My reasoning was that he was not going to develop batting in the 7 hole, and we could not win without him hitting like a No. 3 guy. Just not enough firepower in the lineup for this teamto win without Jason in that role. Right now, he reminds me of Chipper, the real HOF 10, his rookie year. He hit third and put up numbers similar to what Jason is doing now. And, like Chipper, Jason will get better.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:49 pm
actually i never said anything about him getting into the Hall, I said future generations of new fans will accept him as the home run king. I think he will eventually get in but I am not sure of it at all
Trey
August 7th, 2012
4:50 pm
Finally done with work for the day. Time to relax and watch some good ol’ Braves baseball.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:51 pm
there have been a number of us who wanted jason hitting third
ncscoots
August 7th, 2012
4:51 pm
And yes posting on a phone doing 85mph is awesome,try it some time
I think I’d rather see if I can hit it with my thirty-ought.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:51 pm
I have to admit that all the Ks surprise me a bit Erim. I figgered he’d K a fair amount , but 160 would be above what I imagined
nolie, I usually don’t care much about strikeouts, but it’s about 30 more than I thought he’d get this year. He still isn’t at 160, but the rate at which he has been K’ing lately is sort of crazy and unexpected.
Over his last 31 games, Heyward has posted a .267/.355/.442 and has struck out 42 times in 120 at bats(138 plate appearances). That’s a 220 strikeout pace over a 162 game season span.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:51 pm
None of the alleged steroid users will ever get into Cooperstown, unless of course steroids are already in baseball’s Hall of fame?
CrαZy
August 7th, 2012
4:52 pm
The only time the Braves will be choosing between Hamilton and Bourn is if Wren plays MLB the Show!!
Clueless
August 7th, 2012
4:52 pm
Im on Peds now whats the big deal
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:52 pm
Lock up Simmons after next year? Yeah, I’d sure want to avoid that 3rd year, where we will have to pay him somewhere around the league minimum…not to mention that first year or 2 that he is arb eligable.
King of Carrot Flowers
August 7th, 2012
4:53 pm
“Just because [Moylan] has a great career ERA, shouldn’t give him an automatic spot in the pen.”
The SABR freaks have officially lost it. Apparently you no longer want pitchers with good ERAs.
Clueless
August 7th, 2012
4:53 pm
chicks dig the long ball
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
And he has 19 strikeouts in his last 45 at bats – 11 games. Near .880 OPS in that time though. High babip.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
A lot of red flags lately surrounding Hamilton.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
no, I don’t either Efrim, though I would prefer fewer in a perfect world, just surprised he is doing is so much more often than expected. the Mick would be proud
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
“Depends on whether he’ll ever race again, or be put out to stud.”
Shades of Bill Russell!
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
Josh Hamilton’s impending free agency is a disaster in the making…..
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
The Danville Braves have played like 2 friggin games in two weeks because of field conditions and rain. Insane.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
there always have been quite a few raleigh
Clueless
August 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
lot more people in the hof that were on steriods
they did not have a name for it back then
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
Blew that one … meant Wilt Chamberlain.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
4:56 pm
I wondered if you meant Wilt ABW
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
4:57 pm
What to do with Ben Sheets? does his resurrected career warrant a multi-year contract?
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
4:58 pm
unless we get new ownership
THE ATLANTA BRAVES ARE A FARM TEAM FOR THE YANKESS,RED SOX,ANGELS,RANGERS,NATS
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
4:58 pm
Josh Johnson, James Shields, Jon Lester – definitely three pitchers I hope Wren keeps an eye on this winter. Although I don’t see Lester being traded.
southern hope
August 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
This is one of those days when I *REALLY* wish we had a LIKE button for some of these comments….folks are in rare form today….
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
If you took all the people who cheated once in a while, or were bad people, out of the Hall of Fame, it would be a mighty empty place.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
wilt was the man
slept with over 100,000 women.
c?steriods and peds,viagra was back then,told you
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
abeeewright- “Depends on whether he’ll ever race again, or be put out to stud.”
Shades of Bill Russell!
Dodger or Celtic?
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
5:00 pm
What to do with Ben Sheets? does his resurrected career warrant a multi-year contract?
What? A multi-year contract? It’s been five starts and he gets hurt putting on his shirt in the morning. Multiple years for him is a terrible idea.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
5:00 pm
nolie – Worse now than 2 months ago. The rumored marital problems particularly concern me. She has been his anchor.
DAP
August 7th, 2012
5:01 pm
ralieghbravesfan Lock up Simmons after next year? Yeah, I’d sure want to avoid that 3rd year, where we will have to pay him somewhere around the league minimum
im guessing that smart alec comment was directed at me. cut me some slack, i said id wait a year OR TWO. and didnt mean for it to be an official opinion and position of the DAP that simmons get locked up.
besides, im willing to extend freeman already, after only is 2nd year when he will still be making the minimum. so yeah, id do the same for simmons if, after 2014, he looks like he is really going to pan out. im telling y’all, the braves are going to have to do this to remain competitive, because they arent going to be able to wait until players are worth $15-$20mil on the open market before trying to retain them. im talking 8 year deals for these guys. i know most people will think im crazy.
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
5:01 pm
“I wondered if you meant Wilt”
I prolly started dreaming of vintage Jane Russell in the middle of my joke and spun out of control from there.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:01 pm
in 5 years braves will be without mcann,heyward,uggla,kimbrel,freeman,prado
then simmons will follow
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:02 pm
unless we get new ownership
THE ATLANTA BRAVES ARE A FARM TEAM FOR THE YANKESS,RED SOX,ANGELS,RANGERS,NATS
Caps are always persuasive. So, you’re right. Keep on cappin’.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
5:02 pm
That’s a 220 strikeout pace over a 162 game season span.
Between he and Freeman, I’d pegged Freeman with more K’s… They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought. Still good players, but just different. Like, I thought for sure Heyward was a righty. Didn’t see that one coming. ( :
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:03 pm
Wilt the stud…er,stilt.
raleighbravefan
August 7th, 2012
5:04 pm
OK DAP… Don’t think it will happen, but whatever. Just think if we had done that for…Oh, I don’t know…Escobar, for example.
TTFN
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
5:04 pm
It’s NOT the best player, or the player with the best stats, it’s the MOST VALUABLE play, and value is subjective…sorry, but it just is. You believe what you want, but each voter does so based on HIS definition of most valuable to his team. If you don’t get that, or don’t like it, tough Shydt
If “most valuable” is truly subjective, we aren’t able to have reasonable discussions about the most valuable player. It’s basically a taste thing. I like Cesar Izturis better than Andrew McCutchen so I think Izturis is the MVP. Izturis is my MVP based on my definition of most valuable. Hey, it’s all subjective. It’s based on my definition of most valuable to his team. So you can’t bring up any counter-arguments and we can’t discuss it. And the MVP award is about as meaningful as most people liking cheeseburgers. You’re probably right, in that that is what it is and it may be “tough shydt.”
Jimmy Rollins won in 2007 because of the subjective nature of the MVP Award voting. He wasn’t the most valuable player in any objective way we would attempt to measure value (and if we consider intangibles, it’s quite a stretch even then to consider him most valuable). It was a taste thing. A subjective thing. The voters preferred Rollins. That’s basically what the award is, whether we like it or not. That’s sort of the whole point of why folks argue about the MVP Award. Some of us don’t like that it’s subjective, that it’s essentially about taste. We realize we probably aren’t going to change that. But we are going to take our stands and express our thoughts and hopefully voters will eventually turn it in to what it’s presumably meant to be, an award that actually goes to the most valuable player in each league.
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
5:05 pm
“I prolly started dreaming of vintage Jane Russell in the middle of my joke and spun out of control from there.”
At least it wasn’t Nipsey Russell.
TennesseePaul
August 7th, 2012
5:05 pm
When we sign McCann for too long of a contract next year and his knees can’t handle catching when he’s 34 or so we might need to trade Freeman to make room for him at 1B?
Looking forward to all the talk about “range” and first base with McCann there. Should be real entertaining.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
5:06 pm
Justin (AZ): Do people in the industry ever get annoyed with internet types trying to scout stat lines? Or do they just kind of laugh at “prospect gurus” who know nothing about prospects other than their baseball-reference pages?
Kevin Goldstein: You know, I have no idea. The angry chat dude won’t believe me, but I don’t have the time to read other people’s prospect work. As a basic rule, if you are talking to people in the industry, scouts, front office folks etc and doing the damn at games, I can respect what you do when it comes to prospects, and obviously there are a lot of people who fall into that category, like myself, Keith Law, the Baseball America crew, Mayo, etc. If you don’t talk to people in the industry constantly, I don’t think you can do this job (covering baseball below the big leagues) well at all. That’s just my personal opinion.
DAP
August 7th, 2012
5:06 pm
10paul They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought. Still good players, but just different.
i remember when they were tearing up the minor and folks were starting to notice, someone on here said when they heard there was a white guy and a black guy who were good friends and playing really well, they were sure that freddie freeman was the black guy and jason heyward was the white guy. i thought that was funny…
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:07 pm
Strike outs are not problematic unless your name is Jeff Francoeur.
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
I may be forced to the DL because of my scroll finger usage today.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
dap read my comment ab out the braves being a farm tam to other teams
what has killed the braves is the good ole 20 year tv money they got
on a lighter note…………
san diego padres was sold between 7-800 million
cleveland browns was sold for 1 billion
YES 1 BILLION DOLLARS
ONLY IN AMERICA
U GET A PENSION FOR LIFE OF ONLY 1 DAY IN BASEBALL,FOOTBALL,BASKETBALL
Who says unions are bad?
phil
August 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
Josh Hamilton is not someone we want to go anywhere near….period!
And ever since I stopped reading anything a certain poster says – Shaun – about a month ago, my blog experience in the afternoons has dramatically imrpoved. What an ahole.
DAP
August 7th, 2012
5:09 pm
ralieghbravesfan Just think if we had done that for…Oh, I don’t know…Escobar, for example.
heh, yeah.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:09 pm
Andrew McCutchen, the NL 2012 MVP.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
5:09 pm
Between he and Freeman, I’d pegged Freeman with more K’s… They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought.
I still think the 2010 Heyward can come back. I am not in any shape giving up on him being an “elite walker” or “elite OBP” player. I do not think .280/.350/.500 is his ceiling.
DefBrave
August 7th, 2012
5:10 pm
PEDs or no PEDs, Barry Bonds had THE best eye at the plate that I’ve ever seen. The dude’s eye at the plate was so keen and selective. PEDs do NOT make your hitting eyes better – that’s TALENT without a doubt in my mind. Guy was a douche though!
Lew
August 7th, 2012
5:11 pm
coach – Wouldn’t offer him amulti year deal at this point – or for that matter, even if he finishes this season strong. If he holds up and keeps pitching like he is now, I’d offer him a deal for next year at a reasonable salary – maybe $5-6 mil depending on how he looks from here out.
Lew
August 7th, 2012
5:11 pm
Actually, HGH does aid vision.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:13 pm
But we are going to take our stands and express our thoughts and hopefully voters will eventually turn it in to what it’s presumably meant to be, an award that actually goes to the most valuable player in each league.
Rant as much as you care to, Shaun, you aren’t going to change a system that relies on human estimation to decide awards, for a variety of reasons that I suspect would be lost on you.
But good luck in your quest to have some objective measure replace the good old human factor. I guess we all need a windmill or two to tilt at.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:13 pm
The mvp for the braves is kimbrel not heyward
And no im not racist if thats what u thinking
You want stats
Kimbrel won 31 games for braves so far
You think atl.be this close if venters was the closer?
Heyward .255 last 46 games,.270avg.for season myp?
my list kimbrel
chipper
heyward
bring on the hate email
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:14 pm
Andrew McCutchen, the NL 2012 MVP
McCutchen would get my very subjective, very human, vote today for MVP; that is, if I had a vote.
King of Carrot Flowers
August 7th, 2012
5:14 pm
Disagree DefBrave. Faster bat speed means you get a longer look at pitches, which definitely helps the hitter’s eye. PEDs increase bat speed, no?
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
“At least it wasn’t Nipsey Russell.”
Riiiiiiiiight.
DefBrave
August 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
I have perfect 20/20 vision, and I’m profoundly deaf which further enhances my sense of sight and peripheral vision (a proven fact). I played baseball through high school but I was never an excellent hitter. Even with great vision, it does not mean you have great eyes at the plate. That requires more than just a keen sense of vision. That’s TALENT
Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
Fredi said he didn’t want to mess up progress Uggla has made lately, so he’s sitting him vs. Hamels. Uggla is 8-for-55 (.145) vs. Hamels.
DefBrave
August 7th, 2012
5:16 pm
Bonds was a great hitter before PEDs when he was pencil thin, no?
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:16 pm
imo i think rev is getting the shaft here just like medlen was,he never starts,just like drew sutton,glad tb realised how good he was
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
5:18 pm
Kevin McAlpin @KevinMcAlpin
Fredi says today was a planned day off for Dan Uggla, and that he told him prior to last night’s game. Uggla will be back in lineup tomorrow
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:19 pm
braves have said they want to make an offer on nick swisher,denard spahn can be our cf
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:19 pm
yeah, remember that Uggla is actually a better hitter against righties than he is against lefties
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:19 pm
imo i think rev is getting the shaft here just like medlen was,he never starts,just like drew sutton,glad tb realised how good he was
Well, “The Rev” can’t field like Janish. Up-the-middle-defense counts for quite a bit. And Janish has been a liability because of his lack of offense during the current stretch? I think not.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:20 pm
Lew
August 7th, 2012
5:11 pm
coach – Wouldn’t offer him amulti year deal at this point – or for that matter, even if he finishes this season strong. If he holds up and keeps pitching like he is now, I’d offer him a deal for next year at a reasonable salary – maybe $5-6 mil depending on how he looks from here out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds reasonable to me…..get’er done
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:20 pm
Span has terrible home/away splits, let him stay in Minn
DefBrave
August 7th, 2012
5:20 pm
In order to be a great hitter, you have to have the ability to recognize the pitches that are coming at you and you only have milliseconds to do so and react to them. Once you recognize and react, you also have to put the sweet spot of your bat to the sweet spot of the ball. I know damn well how hard that is
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:21 pm
carroll why is rev not starting a game anymore?
just because he hit into dplay he is nothing but a p runner
sad how fredi favors others like uggla
phil
August 7th, 2012
5:21 pm
Rev is a horror show in the field….
Why in the name of Uggla would you want the guy to EVER start?
Lew
August 7th, 2012
5:21 pm
No one has ever said Bonds didn’t have talent, ability or good eye sight when he was normal sized Barry Bonds and yes, would likely have been a HOF inductee without the extra curricular activities. Unfortunately – in his estimation – that wasn’t enough for him.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:22 pm
No one has ever said Bonds didn’t have talent, ability or good eye sight when he was normal sized Barry Bonds and yes, would likely have been a HOF inductee without the extra curricular activities. Unfortunately – in his estimation – that wasn’t enough for him.
Barry got greedy.
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
5:22 pm
Sad to say, but the Rev wasn’t ready for prime time. They rushed him, because they didn’t want to pay for AGon or another two-year contract at SS.
Opportunity knocked. Simmons answered. Later in the season, Janish comes along.
With all the time he spent on the DL this year, the Wilson signing looks like a waste. I’m not commenting on how he did on the field either.
However, when Simmons comes back, you may have Simmons with Janish at back up and with Pastornicky moving into a utility role.
Couch Tater
August 7th, 2012
5:23 pm
Jeff Loria’s wallet was on PEDs this past winter. Now, just a thin nickel plated money clip standing at the freeway off-ramp.
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:23 pm
The mvp for the braves is kimbrel not heyward
And no im not racist if thats what u thinking
You want stats
Kimbrel won 31 games for braves so far
You think atl.be this close if venters was the closer?
Heyward .255 last 46 games,.270avg.for season myp?
Not a hate email but we have the right to tell you when you are wrong. Kimbrel hasnt won 31 games. Saving and winning a game are totally different. Apparently the only stat you like is wins and average. BTW, Heyward has a 4.5WAR, Kimbrel 2.3, Chipper 3.0. Kimbrel cant close out any games if the team isnt scoring. Jason’s played in 106 games, Kimbrel has only appeared in 42.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:24 pm
However, when Simmons comes back, you may have Simmons with Janish at back up and with Pastornicky moving into a utility role.
I think that’s right.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:25 pm
In the meantime…….I got the hots for Billy Hamilton, would love to see my Bravos try to steal him away from the Reds.
DefBrave
August 7th, 2012
5:25 pm
Lew – I don’t disagree with that notion at all. I was simply saying that his talent was not a product of his PEDs usage. It’s just unfortunate that we’ll never know how great, naturally, he truly could have been. Its also unfortunate that a lot of it got to his head. Ever notice that his head seemed to keep getting bigger over the years.
phil
August 7th, 2012
5:25 pm
Rev foolishly tried to hot dog it in the field some too…..bad idea.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:26 pm
once again braves mgmt.tell lies
they said send him to aaa so he can get better be a super utility was there plans for him.hard to get better riding the bench,never playing?
i have no prob janish starting but everyone has a off day except freeman,and janish
please correct me if im wrong
prado has not played 1b fat heinske has with his superior range
would like to know why the ajc writers never ask this
also rev pinch hit for janish in the late innings
fredi not worried about his defense then huh?
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:26 pm
I would certainly put Kimbrel very high on my MVP list. he has been a huge asset and he has done it all year long as opposed to most of the others who have been up and down
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:27 pm
imo i think rev is getting the shaft here just like medlen was,he never starts,just like drew sutton,glad tb realised how good he was
Must be sarcasm. TB has already traded him and he’s sporting a .278OBP in Pittsburgh. Lets not get carried away here. Janish has a better skill set for the SS job than Sutton does.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:27 pm
Its also unfortunate that a lot of it got to his [Bond's] head. Ever notice that his head seemed to keep getting bigger over the years.
Head-itis as a result of PEDs.
Efrim
August 7th, 2012
5:28 pm
However, when Simmons comes back, you may have Simmons with Janish at back up and with Pastornicky moving into a utility role.
If he can show he can play some CF, Pastornicky could be a useful player I guess. Although being a good utility man usually means your surehanded defensively.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
5:28 pm
BALLGAME!
Shaun
August 7th, 2012
5:28 pm
Jeff R, it’s not a matter of taking the human element out of the voting. Even if all of the voters looked at the MVP objectively, there would still be disagreement and there would still be that human element. It’s a matter of the MVP not being subjective and essentially being about taste.
It’s about wanting MVP voters to actually build an objective case where someone can go over their arguments and see where they’re coming from instead of the voters just voting for a player because it feels like that player should be the MVP.
I’m okay with folks in 2007 disagreeing on whether Pujols or Wright or Utley or Chipper deserved the award. But I have a problem with voters voting for Rollins essentially because he made some comments about beating the Mets before the season started and he played shortstop for a division winner after making those comments and he led the league in runs scored. Those things have nothing to do with answering which player was the most valuable.
I’m just asking for some reasoning and something beyond essentially “he just feels like the most valuable player.” Making a rational argument for one player over another, even if there are other rational arguments to be made for other players is very human. Making the process less rational and all about subjectivity and taste takes away from the award because you aren’t really rewarding value. You are rewarding which player can get the most attention or which player you like or which player looks cool playing. It’s more like a gymnastics or diving competition and not an award going to the most valuable player.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:29 pm
Janish and Johnson…………this is a much improved bench instead of Wilson and Diaz.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:30 pm
Palmeiro’s head didn’t grow…..
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:30 pm
out of the 106 games heyward has played,how many did he win by himself
sorry but a .255avg.last 55 games is not getting it done
u the one who was wrong
why verlander won the cy young and MVP LAST YEAR
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:31 pm
you really need to ‘ask’ elsewhere Shaun, we aren’t gonna be able to help you even in we wanted to, which most wouldn’t anyway
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
5:31 pm
Drew Sutton Stays With Pirates Organization, Heads To Indianapolis
by Charlie Wilmoth • Aug 7, 2012 11:39 AM EDT
It appears that infielder Drew Sutton, who the Pirates designated for assignment amidst their slew of moves at the trading deadline, will remain in the organization. He has been assigned to Class AAA Indianapolis.
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:31 pm
also rev pinch hit for janish in the late innings
We are screwed if it comes down to either guy, so why does it matter?
brian
August 7th, 2012
5:31 pm
agree with DOB on the Bonds totals on HOF voting (of course a blogger dealing with a veteran sports writer probably is not a big vote of approval)
the purity of the game is sacrosanct. Bonds violated that trust and will pay the price. As DOB mentioned Pete Rose, I would mention Shoeless Joe as an example (and people still debate whether he actually helped throw the Black Sox series). Could there be an asterisk wing showing accomplishments of the PED era of baseball – almost a shame hall where people’s accomplishments are noted – Bonds, McGuire, Clemens, etc., but the people are not official members of the HOF?
Bonds is the poster child for the steroid/PED era and he will be held accountable for his bad decisions.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:32 pm
Shaun and rational do not belong in the same sentence
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:33 pm
all cheaters violate the purity of the game, anything else is hypocritical
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:33 pm
AGAIN HOW CAN HE SHOW THIS IF HE IS RIDING THE BENCH?
WAS THIS NOT WHY HE WENT DOWN TO AAA FOR?
WHY IS HE EVEN UP HERE FOR?
IN CASE JANISH GETS HURT?
I HATE TO SEE PLAYERS LIKE REV,MEDLEN GET SCREWED BY BRAVES MGMT OVER AND OVER
RESIGN ROSS THIS IS A NO BRAINER
DS1
August 7th, 2012
5:34 pm
So Uggs comes off the bench and hits a meaningless home run tonight?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
5:35 pm
It doesn’t matter what Joe Jackson did or didn’t do in the 1919 WS. Historical fact is….he took the money and said nothing as his team tanked the WS.
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:35 pm
sorry but a .255avg.last 55 games is not getting it done
u the one who was wrong
Wins Above replacement
Jason Heyward 4.5
Chipper Jones 3.0
Craig Kimbrel 2.3
DS1
August 7th, 2012
5:35 pm
Is there no end to the stupidity of some?
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:36 pm
Typical braves mgmt.
A person leads the braves with 21hrs,over .300avg and sits in aaa
pathetic
phil
August 7th, 2012
5:36 pm
nc fan is gradually adopting the new personality of his mentor, Roy Williams…
DS1
August 7th, 2012
5:37 pm
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
5:37 pm
“THE ATLANTA BRAVES ARE A FARM TEAM FOR THE YANKESS,RED SOX,ANGELS,RANGERS,NATS”
*********************************************
Off the top of my head, the Rangers have the guys from the Tex trade and BoSox have Salty (originally part of Tex trade). Nats may have LaRoche and Yanks have Andrew, but Brave let them both walk. I fail to see how that qualifies as being a farm team for those teams even in lower case let alone upper case.
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:37 pm
Maybe this is ground you covered this afternoon, Shaun, but how do you pick an MVP when the award is open to pitchers and hitter? When fielding comes into play to (or should). How do you objectively compare a pitcher’s contributions versus a hitter’s? Apples and oranges and scads of variables in-between.
Of course, there’s always going to be the subjective in most, if not all, human endeavors, sports awards not exempted. There’s ego, prejudice, politics, and self-interest that goes into how someone votes and who gets awarded.
Sometimes players who are given awards are generally recognized as deserving; other times, there’s controversy. Just the human condition.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:37 pm
Andrew McCutchen, the NL 2012 MVP.
Indeed. So far, he deserves it.
As for Jack Wilson, I was told that I was foolish to consider replacing him…. His defense isn’t all that special. Let him wait til Sept. to come back up, keep Janish and Rev instead. Just my opinion.
brian
August 7th, 2012
5:38 pm
The Braves will attempt to sign Bourn to an extension while obviously offering him the qualifying contract offer. If they sign Bourn great. If they do not, they will take their compensatory pick. The Braves then would target a CF by trade with Peter Bourjos and Dernard Spahn being 2 possibilities.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:38 pm
you aren’t gonna garner all that much support using WAR here
DS1
August 7th, 2012
5:38 pm
Bring up that 300, 21 homer guy and play him every day………..
Wait a minute, you say he’s a first baseman? And maybe not such a good one at that.
Well, on second thought………
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
5:39 pm
I think Janish is the longer term backup at short. Wilson’s days are numbered.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:39 pm
Though I wish Rev could stay in AAA and work on his SS, he’s a better option than Wilson right now. He’s kinda forced to be up here, esp. with Simmons being on the shelf until Sept.
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:39 pm
unbelieveable
VERLANDER CY YUNG,MVP
A RELIEVER HAS ALSO WON THE MYP BEFORE
YOU ASK PEOPLE HERE AND I SAY ITS KIMBREL
LIKE THE POSTER SAYS HE IS MORE CONSISTENT
RATHER HAVE KIMBREL SAVE THEN HEYWARD COME UP IN THE CLUTCH
18HRS 119 STRIKEOUTS
MCANN HAS 18 HRS WHATS YOUR POINT
HEYWARD PLAYS TWICE AS MANY GAMES HIS WAR SHOULD BE DOUBLE
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:40 pm
yeah cause we sooo desperately need another left handed hitter
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:41 pm
you aren’t gonna garner all that much support using WAR here
I know, been down this path before. But hey, its all about average and wins! Some here probably think Felix Hernandez didnt deserve the CY because he went 13-12
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:42 pm
The Braves then would target a CF by trade with Peter Bourjos and Dernard Spahn being 2 possibilities.
Better not be Span…. useless outside of Minnesota, esp. in June.
I think Janish is the longer term backup at short. Wilson’s days are numbered.
Don’t mind it at all…. like Janish much more than I do Wilson.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:43 pm
yeah cause we sooo desperately need another left handed hitter
Our lineup won’t be right until all 9 starters are LH…. then we got to get the bench that way too!
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:43 pm
I LOVE ALL CAPS we should add some bold and some italics also.
DS1
August 7th, 2012
5:43 pm
TOBF
If I had a choice between Wilson and Pastornicky and both were healthy, The Rev wouldn’t get too much playing time.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:44 pm
difference between CYA and MVP. most are not gonna think a 13-12 record deserves MVP
brian
August 7th, 2012
5:44 pm
Janish is going to be our long term back up. I won’t be surprised to see Wilson left off our playoff roster
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:45 pm
Comeback player of the year in american league is adam dunn hands down
Trout Mvp american league
brian
August 7th, 2012
5:45 pm
I think the Braves will try to add Bourjos in a deal involving EOF or Venters
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:47 pm
TOBF
If I had a choice between Wilson and Pastornicky and both were healthy, The Rev wouldn’t get too much playing time.
Behind Janish/Simmons? I’d go Rev there…. he might be a horror in the field, but Wilson isn’t a wizard at short either. Wasn’t very impressive at SS. Go with the young guy who has promise.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:47 pm
Bourjos has sure fallen apart this season
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:47 pm
Funny how all including you unbelieveable says send jhey to aaa work on his hitting
only on this site so many bandwagon fans
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:48 pm
Trout Mvp american league
That’s gonna hurt…. We could’ve had him instead of Minor (though Minor isn’t really that bad)
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:49 pm
so u guys think fredi will go to a 6 man rotation when hanson comes back?
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
5:51 pm
Trout is way better than harper
that kid is a hot head
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:52 pm
we coulda had Minor AND Trout…twice
PDOG
August 7th, 2012
5:52 pm
The Bench next year should have the Rev, backup SS and 2B, Juan the Fatty, Ross and Gattiis or Cuningham who ever doesn’t start in the outfield. I like the young players and would rather save money there and spend it locking up Jhey and Freeman long term. Also in terms of resigning Sheets it is a must if he continues to pitch they way he has. Every pitcher is a pitch away from TJ surgery just look at our own boys Beachy and Medlin.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
5:52 pm
not a regular 6 man, but some rest for starters here and there
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
5:53 pm
so u guys think fredi will go to a 6 man rotation when hanson comes back?
I think it’s possible, but not likely.
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:54 pm
Funny how all including you unbelieveable says send jhey to aaa work on his hitting
Now you are showing your ignorance. Not once, will you find a comment on this blog from me suggesting that heyward should be sent to the minors. Dont make stuff up.
unbelievable
August 7th, 2012
5:56 pm
so u guys think fredi will go to a 6 man rotation when hanson comes back?
Doesnt make sense unless guys are hurting. We need every start that we can get from Hudson moving forward. Unless hes having ankle issues, there is no reason to go to a true 6 man rotation.
Heisenberg
August 7th, 2012
5:59 pm
“Bourjos has sure fallen apart this season”
*******************
True but I still like him. Angels OF got real crowded all the sudden and he ends up collecting splinters. Consistent playing time a new environment could make a big difference.
With that I am out.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:05 pm
could be but at this point I would not give up all that much for him
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:07 pm
he has had two bad years and even in his good one his OBP was 327. I’m not sold on him I’m feared
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
6:09 pm
Gonzalez on six-man rotation thoughts
read the blog its to your right seems like a good move with a 20 game stretch coming up
nc fan
August 7th, 2012
6:11 pm
im out have a god night
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:13 pm
key word there being “might”. I think a full-out 6 man rotation is pretty unlikely, and from past experience not all that good an idea either. perhaps a modified one. we’ll see how it goes
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
6:17 pm
robneyer @robneyer
Astros Lose CF Jordan Schafer To D.L. (how ever will they replace his production?)
ATLcracker
August 7th, 2012
6:18 pm
Apparently Danville Va. is not the ideal place for a minor league team. Has anybody heard any hint, rumour, or wisp of a telepathic thought that the Braves might move a team back to Macon?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:27 pm
robneyer @robneyer
Astros Lose CF Jordan Schafer To D.L. (how ever will they replace his production?)
Production of weed is very important….
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:32 pm
Peter Bourjos would be a good guy too target in the offseason for the right price in trade of course. He’s not much of a hitter but is one of the best defensive outfielders in baseball with great speed. This would be an option if we choose to spend big on LFer and SP. Bourjos is cheap salary wise and at this point his trade value isn’t what it was.
Playoffs?????
August 7th, 2012
6:35 pm
Barry Bonds is more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose.
Gazing into my crystal ball, I see a Pastornicy/Francisco platoon at third base next year. Prado stays in left. We are going to have to replace one outfielder already when Bourne goes elsewhere.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:36 pm
Pastornicky has a pretty weak arm to play third regularly IMO
TP
August 7th, 2012
6:38 pm
The Braves roster list Heyward and Freeman as both 6′-5″ but Heyward weighs more @ 245lbs. Freeman appears much heavier and during the off season could probably lose 15 or 20lbs. He could probably pick up a little speed and he too can get from atleast 1st to 3rd on a single.
When you’re that tall, you have a natural advantage. Bolt is 6′-3″ and that why the other 100m runners didn’t have a chance.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:38 pm
yep, Pastor’s best defensive position will be 2nd base long term I think, but hopefully he can be ok in alot of spots for us as a utility guy.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:41 pm
Wonder if the Braves are interested in keeping Reed Johnson for next season?
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:42 pm
Jason bulked up last year but he lost 15 pounds over the winter, Freddie bulked up some according to early season reports
nolie
August 7th, 2012
6:44 pm
I hope they do Va, versatile guy who has never been all that costly for what he brings
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
6:46 pm
Freeman has been our MVP this year with his glove and bat. Have to consider when talking MVP how are you without that player. We lose a lot of defense from the IF when he’s not at 1st on how he saves plenty of base runners with that glove, not to mention him leading the team and almost the league in 2 out RBI’s.
Blaze
August 7th, 2012
6:47 pm
Why did we Bat MCCann 3rd? Can you see him scoring from first 5 times like J-Hey has recently? Keep J-Hey hitting third. His average should slowly climb on up near 280+
Go Bravos!
Jeff R
August 7th, 2012
6:48 pm
I think Wren will try to retain Johnson. He’s been on Wren’s radar for a while, as I recall the reporting.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:50 pm
Hell, Chipper is our MVP… He has a 912 OPS with a 320 AVG at 40 years old. Guy is clearly going out with a bang. Of course Freeman, Heyward, Bourn, and Prado are solid picks too.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
6:52 pm
Well Heyward has the best overall skill set to bat 3rd. The whole plate discipline/power/speed combination is perfect. He’s easily our most valuable player from a franchise standpoint going forward.
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
6:57 pm
When a player makes others around you better like Freeman, that is a MVP to me. Chipper does the same when he’s in a lineup, but Freeman’s defense along with his offense outweighs anything anybody else on the team does. Not saying it’s head and shoulders better than what a Chipper,BMac, Bourn, Prado or a Heyward brings.
ACE
August 7th, 2012
6:58 pm
Good to see Uggla get a day off.
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
6:58 pm
We may only have Heyward 3 more years. Hanson has 3 years before free agency also but he has almost a year more experience because he started in June of 09 and Heyward April 10.
Bravesfan 54
August 7th, 2012
6:58 pm
MiaBchBravesFan – the “accidental” death has always been disputed. Local small-town politics spared his mother and her lover from too much scruntiny at the time. (Lover was the son of the local newpaper publisher). The “accidental” conclusion is disputed because of the second shotgun blast on the prone victim who was lying down at the time. Ty Cobb never spoke to his mother again – not that he is any kind of model for judging behavior.
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
7:02 pm
We have a team here. Don’t ruin it Fredi. Everything is here to go real far. As long as this guy doesn’t try to out think himself, the team should start to really have a real long streak.
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
7:03 pm
Gazing into my crystal ball, I see a Pastornicy/Francisco platoon at third base next year.
Pastornicky doesn’t have the arm or the bat to play 3rd. To fill in if the regular is out yes. A platoon – nope.
Revised Scouting Report
August 7th, 2012
7:04 pm
I’m thrilled that Heyward is having a good year. I give him credit for working at his craft and having a bounce back year. Who knows, he may be an elite player in the big leagues in the future.
That being said, I want to puke sometimes watching the Braves pre-game on TV. You would think listening to those guys Gant and JJ, that Heyward was Hank Freakin’ Aaron! They scream about him being a five tool player who is tearin’ it up. He COULD be a star in the making but he ain’t one yet! Geez guys, you can comment on his talent in a positive light without trying to make everyone within earshot believe he is something is IS NOT!
No wonder people have such high expectations of Heyward listening to those jack legs go on about him.
Has no one learned a lesson from all the Francouer hype? Had it not been for the home-town hype, Frenchy would have been gone a year earlier but the clubhouse store had TOO many Francouer jerseys and they had to keep him long enough to sell a few more.
Be a homer. It only means you love your team. But you can be a homer without being an idiot. When you are an idiot about it, you lose all cred.
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
7:05 pm
Commercials are getting worse by the year. Soon as you think you’ve seen the corniest, most ridiculous commercial, another one comes along and beats it. The VW one with that curly headed geek talking about baseball’s DH is pitiful at trying to be funny.
George
August 7th, 2012
7:11 pm
I will NEVER accept BONDS as HR record holder, sorry nolie. That being said, outta here for game. LETS GET A WIN TONIGHT.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:12 pm
Relax y’all….we still have a chance to win the series.
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
7:15 pm
Bonds was great when he was a skinny little shyt. I would say he was even a better all around player from my recollection when he was thinner. Better speed, still great power and a better fielder. Probably would’ve stayed healthier too without the beefed up, roid body.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:15 pm
ballgame
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:16 pm
BALLGAME!!!
George
August 7th, 2012
7:16 pm
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
7:02 pm
We have a team here. Don’t ruin it Fredi. Everything is here to go real far. As long as this guy doesn’t try to out think himself, the team should start to really have a real long streak.
*********************************************
YUP
ACE
August 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
ouchhhhhhhhh Prado
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
We’re gonna get creamed tonight.
Pace
August 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
Well, that’s not a great start – Minor needs to stay calm – hold them to one run here.
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
7:18 pm
If Prado catches the ball at second its an out…
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:19 pm
Wooohooo!
Go Minor!
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
7:19 pm
After Chip and Joe lauded the Braves for playing great defense behind Minor, Braves get fumble fingered with the ball.
abeeewright
August 7th, 2012
7:20 pm
I kind of expected clown music to start playing over the PA.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:21 pm
You mean Prado’s 3rd position of the season isn’t a great idea? hmm…
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
7:21 pm
Got to go on record that my favorite Brave is Prado.
Hustles, plays mulitiple positions and solid at all, just a great baseball player.
I would get him extended first, then Heyward and Freeman.
Don’t know what we are going to do at catcher long term, but Prado can be, and possibily should be, the next face of the franchise.
I’m Jimmy and I approve of this message.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:21 pm
lol@ Minor staying ‘calm.’
:facepalm:
Jimmy
August 7th, 2012
7:23 pm
One game does not define a player.
Unless you are Brooks Conrad.
Later good folks. Time to watch the game.
cabravesfan
August 7th, 2012
7:23 pm
Phillies guys are ripping Dominic Brown for not advancing on that deep fly out…
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
7:24 pm
Minor is back folks…..
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:24 pm
Wow… glad Minor has it together now.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:24 pm
Well, if it wasn’t over earlier…….it’s over now.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:24 pm
BOOM!
lol, even Howard’s hitting now…
M.V.P.Heyward
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
That is the Minor we all know.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
Dammit…back to a 5 man rotation….I wanted to see it grow!
Couch Tater
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
Ryan seems to be trotting around the bases okay, on the bad Achilles.
Jaded
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
Looks like we got Bad Minor tonight.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
Looks like the old Minor is back. Hopefully the Nats will lose..
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
But wait, Im sure its Uggla’s fault though, right?
TNScott
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
Poor sequence of pitches. Four straight breaking balls? Seriously?!
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
7:25 pm
eh oh well, Minor’s good run wasn’t going to last forever
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:26 pm
Nats won’t lose tonight.
Bank on it!
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:26 pm
Like they said in the pregame show, Minor isn’t concerned about giving up so many home runs. It’s good to know that blast didn’t bother him.
tony austin
August 7th, 2012
7:26 pm
As sure as night follows day, Minor gives it up.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:27 pm
4 back.
phil
August 7th, 2012
7:27 pm
Any chance we can get the idiots in the booth to shut up? Everything they say, disaster follows!
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:27 pm
Silly bloggers….Philly runs are for kids.
We’re good for at least 7 runs tonight of our own. They stink.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
7:27 pm
“Nats won’t lose tonight”
and probably not tomorrow or Thursday either. That’s what happens when you play the Astros, you tend to win
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:28 pm
“Poor sequence of pitches. Four straight breaking balls? Seriously?!”
Sheets said Mac was fantastic and called a great game last night. Is this the same guy Sheets was talking about?
Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 2012
7:30 pm
the Howard HR off Minor ties him with Blanton for the most allowed among NL pitchers (23)
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:31 pm
Not even voodoo would help the Braves get a win tonight.
Jimiz
August 7th, 2012
7:31 pm
Barry Bonds sucks. He will be found guilty because he is. I have no respect for him or his so called record. That fool should no that if you cheat you haven’t won anything not now and not in a 100 years. I hate him for what he has done to this sport. I hope he rotts in jail and gets treated like a sissy the whole time. No matter all those roids will break him down to nothing but a shell he will hopefully end up in a wheel chair. He will be forgotten and only remembered as a cheat. Someone else will have broken the real home run record by then. So screw him and all his fans because they support a loser, whom had to drug himself to be a star. Chipper Jones will be remembered more fondly then Barry roids Bonds ever will. lol Go Braves
cabravesfan
August 7th, 2012
7:31 pm
Phillies guys pointed out that the pitch Howard hit out was not in the location Mac wanted it…
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:34 pm
“Fols
We’re good for at least 7 runs tonight of our own. They stink.”
Someone tell Hamels that he stinks and that a 3 run lead is nothing.
11-6 .334 era
phil
August 7th, 2012
7:34 pm
Chipper….god bless him
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
7:34 pm
“pitch Howard hit out was not in the location Mac wanted it”
looking at the video, I think they are wrong. He’s setup outside, that’s where the pitch was, and that’s where Howard hit it. I think it’s like Joe said, just threw him the same pitch to many times
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:35 pm
Well, that was quick. Hamels is locked in?
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
7:35 pm
The 25 million dollar guy is showing us why he get’s paid the big bucks.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:35 pm
Did Hamels record come when they had a MLB roster or a AAA roster?
We’re alright…calm down.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
7:37 pm
“showing us why he get’s paid the big bucks”
fortunately for the Braves they’re paying him to pitch deeper into the game and not 2 innings. So yeah, he’s showing us he can pitch 2 good innings but what about 7?
game over
August 7th, 2012
7:38 pm
Ok this game is over! … 3 runs in the first inning….then you open with leadoff single by CJ and what io next??? K and GIDP ahahahah what a losers!!!!!
plus with Hamels pitching braves chance of winning is like 10-15% at best….
4 games back after tonight ….
SOS Braves
August 7th, 2012
7:38 pm
Looks like we are back to the usual Braves Phillies game tonight. In case you dont remember, we LOSE.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:39 pm
Get somebody up Fredi!
For cryin’ out loud……Minor is getting torched.
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:39 pm
“Did Hamels record come when they had a MLB roster or a AAA roster?”
This AAA roster has given him a 3 run lead and the difference between AAA and major league is usually the bat, not the defense. If Hamels throws well and the defense hold up, he has his 3 runs.
And besides, the AAA Minor seems to have shown up tonight.
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
7:40 pm
Minor in all likelihood is pitching for a rotation spot this start and next start. With Hanson due back in a week or so and if Fredi doesn’t use a 6 man rotation then it’s possible Minor could be sent down. 5.20 ERA just won’t cut it down the stretch in a pennant race.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:40 pm
Wow it’s 2 innings guys…
Minor Is For Real
August 7th, 2012
7:41 pm
Wow, you predicted 7 runs, Fols!
Fols
August 7th, 2012
7:44 pm
7 (minimum)…it could be like 8 or 9…but let’s not get carried away. There’s no way i’m predicting 10! lol
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:45 pm
The Houston Astros and Lucas Harrell needed three runs to defeat the Braves on Saturday night. I believe Hamels is better than that…
nolie
August 7th, 2012
7:46 pm
3-0 huh? why am I not surprised?
DS1
August 7th, 2012
7:47 pm
Hamels is paid a lot of money because he is normally very good. We need to work the count if we want to increase our chance to get back into this game.
Gotta run, but I’ll be listening in……..
Bo Graves!
angry fan
August 7th, 2012
7:47 pm
i dont know for who is the fault , Minor, McCaan or Fredi G. ???
for Fredi G. for sent the signs from the dogout???
for McCaan for asked 4 sliders in the same AB and 2 in the outside corner even when you know Howard loves to hit he ball to the opposite field ???
for Minor for dont execute the pitch and maybe thrown the ball in the wrong place???
Apparently the braves will be shutout by Hamels tonight,,,
nolie
August 7th, 2012
7:49 pm
OUCH!!! Those damn pieces of falling sky hurt!!
Mountain Braves Fan
August 7th, 2012
7:50 pm
I think the reason for Peter Bourjos struggles this season is that with the crowded Angels outfield he has only had 162 at bats. In 2011, with 500 at bats, Bourjos hit 12 homers, stole 22 bases, and had a .765 OPS. He is young, good centerfielder, bats right handed, and hits lefties well. With T. Hunter playing out the last year of his contract with the Angels this season, Bourjos will be much more valuable to the Angels in 2013, so they are not going to give him away. Very intriguing for a team like the Braves that needs to fill several spots in 2013.
TBbravesfan
August 7th, 2012
7:51 pm
wow we are just breezing right thru our innings
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
7:52 pm
More runs coming up?
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:53 pm
Generous call blue……thx!
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
7:54 pm
lol …..same spot!
MAD
August 7th, 2012
7:56 pm
lefties against a good lefty???????????
McCann bats what against Hamels? Sit him tomorrow against a righty for two days off???? Whatever maybe play Ross tonight and Mac tomorrow.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
7:57 pm
I don’t know, the year B4 Bourjos pretty much stunk it up as a rookie. last year he flashed some speed and a bit of pop but still had a less than acceptable ability to get on base for a speed guy. This year he has regressed to his first season. Right now I see no reason to think that last year was the norm. It’s not like his numbers in the minors were all that special either.
Simmons was starting to drift down toward what the analysts expected rather than a hot start, if he does hit like many think he and Bourjos might be weak spots in the lineup on top of losing Chipper.
just some thoughts
bravesgrl4life
August 7th, 2012
7:59 pm
Hi, everyone. Have not been on much lately as I’ve had family in town since last Friday night. Missed chatting with you.
It is time to start scoring.
MAD
August 7th, 2012
7:59 pm
everyone complains about CBP being a short yard, don’t know how many warning track shots we’ve hit the last couple of years. Not that short.
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
7:59 pm
Jayson Stark @jaysonst
Chipper now hitting .318, slugging .522. Only 5 men ever went .300/.500 (300+ AB) at 40+: Musial, Williams, Baines, Moises Alou & Cap Anson
MAD
August 7th, 2012
8:00 pm
Bourn needs more time off and Prado could use some more time off.
MAD
August 7th, 2012
8:01 pm
bye bye, one of those games that we have packed in already.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:02 pm
Baines underrated hitter
Playoffs!!!
August 7th, 2012
8:02 pm
If you have the arm to play shortstop, then you have the arm to play third. As for hitting, Pastornicky will only get better
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:03 pm
where’s the closest bridge??
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:07 pm
Man, Minor is dealing tonight!!!
Lance
August 7th, 2012
8:07 pm
I just got to the game….can someone tell me what/how/when happened for the Braves to be down by 3? Looked at box score but wondering if there are “details” that could be added
Half Empty
August 7th, 2012
8:07 pm
Pastornicky does NOT have the arm to play short, how could you watch the games and not see that?
Mountain Braves Fan
August 7th, 2012
8:08 pm
Nolie– last year he (Bourjos) flashed some speed and a bit of pop but still had a less than acceptable ability to get on base for a speed guy.
Bourjos OBP last year was .327. Michael Bourn, who will cost considerably more, has a career OBP of .337.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
8:08 pm
“where’s the closest bridge??”
I’m looking noles…..let ya know when I get there.
Fols
August 7th, 2012
8:08 pm
Did I say 7 runs? I meant TOMORROW…I didn’t realize we played tonight. Apparently neither did the bats!
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
8:08 pm
I wouldn’t be too upset with the result of the game tonight thus far if we we’re playing the Phillies of the past few years, but let’s be honest this is their AAA team Lehigh Valley, with the exception of Rollins, Utley, and Howard.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:10 pm
can someone tell me what/how/when happened for the Braves to be down by 3?
Mike Minor took a big dump on top of the Braves’ chances of winning tonight, in the first inning.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:11 pm
so what? neither is any great shakes for a lead off hitter.
Bama Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:12 pm
Marteen Needs A New Glove!!!!!!!!!!!!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:13 pm
wtg mike
Playoffs!!!
August 7th, 2012
8:13 pm
Half Empty—-I did the watch him play shortstop. His fielding problems had nothing to do with arm strength
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:15 pm
Second is Marteen’s third best position
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:17 pm
I don’t know PO, I watched him play also and saw a lot of poor throws too so I’m not all that thrilled with thinking of him at third regularly . his rep all along has been a weak arm and I agree it is below average
Lance
August 7th, 2012
8:18 pm
Interesting descriptor JC Brave.
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
8:18 pm
Hamels making this look way too easy..
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
8:19 pm
WOW
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
8:19 pm
Man you are SLOW mac!
Real effin SLOW!
Bama Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:20 pm
MacCan STINKS BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:20 pm
Brian McCann you genius!!!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:20 pm
gotta get that boy a nitrous bottle
Fresh Meat
August 7th, 2012
8:21 pm
I wish they’d leave the camera on McCann once…just to see what in the world is going on…while he’s running
Half Empty
August 7th, 2012
8:21 pm
I think it is weak Playoff
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
8:23 pm
…….This is still a top notch roster who received a poignant scathing from the Philadelphia fourth estate for their ponderous play last night–this team response doesn’t surprise me {I just sat down to it}….especially with Hamels on the hill. The Phils are capable as you should well know.
What does surprise me is we come out and accept things by forgetting—oh my, see how slow Mac; my God……anyway seems we have forgotten how to get on base thus far–like we’re in a daze–that is surprising because we are currently surging……except for you know who—and I’m not getting into the dynamics of Mr. Uggly tonight.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
8:23 pm
Last night someone posted that if McCann was in a race with a pregnant woman he would come in 3rd – I think they might be right
Playoffs!!!
August 7th, 2012
8:24 pm
nolie- I think his arm is adequate for third. I don’t think the Braves brass, during the offseason , would have touted him their shortstop this year if they felt his arm was too weak.
I think most of his bad throws in April and May were just inaccutate or rushed throws.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:24 pm
Apparently, McCann’s brain shuts down whenever he’s running.
Bama Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:25 pm
lol David Ross is faster the Mac
tony austin
August 7th, 2012
8:25 pm
Game’s not over yet, but it looks to be one of those night.
Half Empty
August 7th, 2012
8:25 pm
we get on base when their pitcher is wild, Hamels has not been so far
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
Minor is an Ace.
He knows what he’s doing.
Nothing better than walking the leadoff guy when your team is down 3-0.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
Good try Paul.
Guy is doing a commendable job in place of Andy.
MAD
August 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
good start in Houston
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
Yeesh, Fugly so far….
Fols
August 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
Minor has actually turned his game around nicely….it’s now on the offense.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:27 pm
yeah they are good at waiting out a pitcher who is not hitting the plate well, when a guy is pounding the plate we lose most of that
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
8:29 pm
Now lets score some freeking runs!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:30 pm
Very good Mike.
yup Fols, he is pitching well since the first.
Mark
August 7th, 2012
8:30 pm
Probably already been posted but Minor appears to be up in the zone. He can’t stay up there and have success.
Unless he’s up as high as that one Howard just swung at!!
fan
August 7th, 2012
8:33 pm
some of you all like to whine just for the sake of whining, wouldn’t be happy unless the Braves were 162 and 0..
same group of miserable posters, you all must be some real good people to be around., bunch of sour pusses.
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
8:34 pm
And Washington comes right back and ties it up at 2-2. Other teams score and Washington comes right back and scores. That’s something that we really struggle with. A 3-0 deficit to Washington is nothing for them.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
8:34 pm
It seems that more than one of the starters as early game issues before settling down a pitching rather than throwing
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:34 pm
160-2 would be acceptable…..
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:35 pm
The offense is doing an impressive job tonight.
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
8:35 pm
When the Phillies pulled Cliff Lee back off waivers from the Dodgers, they recommitted $102.5 M of contract over the next four years.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
8:38 pm
imo, this game isn’t as frustrating as Saturday’s loss. Losing to Hamels/Ryan Howard isn’t nearly as bad as losing to whoever that was that shutdown the offense and whoever that was who hit those homers against Maholm
ACE
August 7th, 2012
8:40 pm
This looks like a repeat of the Sheets game when he didn’t any support.
brian
August 7th, 2012
8:43 pm
great DP and great pitch Minor
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:43 pm
Prado hung in there well, which some here think he does not
Pace
August 7th, 2012
8:44 pm
And with that play, Minor’s ERA drops below 5! (.499)
Dawg'88
August 7th, 2012
8:44 pm
Hello Wild card…72 pitches for Hamels thru 6 IP?!
So much for patience and working the count.
TNScott
August 7th, 2012
8:45 pm
I hope that Bourn will at least attempt a bunt toward Howard.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:45 pm
Minor has been getting break after break since the first inning. The Braves are lucky not to be down 7-0 or something like that…
Mark
August 7th, 2012
8:46 pm
Good start Bourn!!!!!
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:47 pm
Prado loves the high stuff.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:49 pm
you can’t work the count when the ball is always over the plate.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
8:51 pm
Chipper making Hamels sweat again.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
8:51 pm
I’d pay Hamels 24mil B4 I’d pay Greinke 22
Mark
August 7th, 2012
8:52 pm
Not looking too promising tonight!
Lance
August 7th, 2012
8:54 pm
Doesn’t matter how good a pitcher is if the offense doesn’t score runs you can’t win
Mark
August 7th, 2012
8:58 pm
Hamels has silenced the Braves bats and the blog!
Pace
August 7th, 2012
8:59 pm
Minor really settled down – didn’t have great command tonight, had some defensive help, but settled down and held the Phillies scoreless through the last six innings – good performance, now if Hamels could implode – the Braves might score!
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
8:59 pm
Good start by Minor…. shame he has no run support. After a rough 1st inning, he rebounded well. 7 IP 3 ER…. that’s good enough for a win most nights.
About that BMac play, Brian, you’re not that fast. Stay at first buddy
Bama Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:00 pm
FREDDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
archie
August 7th, 2012
9:00 pm
Has McCann made it to 2nd base on his hit yet? Should be any time now….
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
9:03 pm
Bad, bad night for the offense. Get in hitters counts and just can’t do nothing with it. Oh well, hope this isn’t the start of a trend.
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
9:04 pm
ninth inning magic? Still possible but they are playing like “Killies.”
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:04 pm
That hurt Reed.
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:04 pm
TOBF
You are right but its almost a pride thing. To hit it off the wall and just get to first he’d catch so much crap from the other guys. Kinda like getting hosed on a line single to right.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
9:04 pm
safe to say the lefty/lefty matchup didn’t quite work out the way FG was hoping
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
9:04 pm
These AAA Phils are GOOD!
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:05 pm
Inconsistent offense? Or just an off night?
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
9:05 pm
Phillies have three aces, I just wish we had one.
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
9:05 pm
I knew Hamels was going to do this.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
can’t see any reason Charlie Manuel wouldn’t let Hamels stay in to pitch to the bottom of the order in the bottom of the 9th
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:07 pm
If the pitcher is good enough it doesn’t matter if its A ball. Tonight, Hamels is good enough.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:07 pm
And tomorrow, the best offense in baseball will be facing another Cy Young pitcher: Kyle “Piece of Crap” Kendrick. A guy known as someone who shuts down the Braves 9 out of 10 times.
Yay!!
Fols
August 7th, 2012
9:08 pm
Hate these games….most nights a 3 run pitching performance they talk about quality starts but there is a difference when it’s all 1st inning damage. Our boys sure seem to lock up in these type of ball games.
Pace
August 7th, 2012
9:08 pm
Hamels is pitching like he’s trying to earn that new contract tonight. As much as I hate to type this, “sometimes you just gotta tip your cap to the other guy”.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:08 pm
Oh no, Cole Hamels pitched like the Ace he is tonight. OMG!!!!! The world is ending, and it’s not even Dec. 21st. I need to jump off of a bridge now….
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
9:09 pm
Your right Pace….
Guy is flat out pitching.
Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 2012
9:10 pm
Line on Minor: 7 innings, 3 earned runs, seven hits (one homer), two BB, Five Ks. 103 pitches (63 strikes) 5th quality start in past 6 sts…only exception was the rain delay his last time out
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:10 pm
Hit him on the heel!
Not really.
Shoulda hit Hamels earlier.
Not really…
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:11 pm
As much as I love to type this, “sometimes you just gotta tip your cap to the other guy
Fixed it for ya!
Hate these games….most nights a 3 run pitching performance they talk about quality starts but there is a difference when it’s all 1st inning damage.
I hate it too, esp. for Mike.
kelevra
August 7th, 2012
9:11 pm
didnt we get uggla to balance out the lineup against tough lefties…. i mean are we paying him 13 million/year to only hit(strikeout) against the easy, less talented pitchers
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
9:12 pm
I wonder what Chipper thinks off Fredi?
Mixxo
August 7th, 2012
9:12 pm
I’m off to open mic nite. Maybe I’ll play something. IDK
Catch the rest on the radio.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
9:12 pm
Minor pitched good but I’m disappointed he put them behind the 8 ball so early in the game, especially the Howard at-bat …. he had been hitting horribly against lefties but Minor attacked him with the same pitches one to many times and Howard adjusted and planted the ball in the outfield seats.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:15 pm
I love ya Johnson!!!
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
9:16 pm
Gearrin needs to go away once and for all.
Pace
August 7th, 2012
9:16 pm
Got away with a pitch up there – juuuuuust missed that HR – last chance here
kelevra
August 7th, 2012
9:16 pm
r u guys really blaming minor for this loss????? i have the ultimate stat….every team in the history of baseball is 0 for ——— when scoring 0 runs in a game
Pace
August 7th, 2012
9:18 pm
Uggla gonna PH?
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
9:18 pm
Learned more about Minor’s progress tonight than in the wins. Well done.
TNScott
August 7th, 2012
9:18 pm
If Cory goes away, it will probably be to one the seven teams currently interested in him. And by the way, I think his ERA is 1.17.
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:19 pm
Would let someone hit for Yawnish here and if we tie it worry about SS then.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:19 pm
And now the worst possible part of the lineup comes up in the ninth for the Braves…
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:19 pm
Let’s go REV
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:20 pm
I would’ve let Pastor lead off then Uggla
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:20 pm
All Rev does is hit hit hit.
Pace
August 7th, 2012
9:21 pm
Good for Rev – now Mikey – your turn
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:21 pm
4-6 off the bench for Rev…. let him stay up
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:21 pm
Would let someone hit for Yawnish here and if we tie it worry about SS then.
LOL.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
9:22 pm
Minor made a quality start – the offense let him down.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:22 pm
Another K from Bourn….. Sigh
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
9:22 pm
I was wondering if he was going to strikeout tonight
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
9:23 pm
Can’t blame Uggla for this one.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
9:24 pm
$
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:24 pm
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned tonight is that good lefties even out of the pen kill us. Sure has tonight.
We need another RH bat besides Prado and Chipper. Can’t hardly count Yawnish and the pitcher.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:24 pm
Can’t blame Uggla for this one.
That’s a relief.
Game over. We’ll get them tomorrow. Hope the ‘Stros win tonight, though not likely.
Tip your cap to Cole Hamels, he pitched great.
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:25 pm
JC
That was a real stretch tonight wasn’t it?
ncbravesfan90
August 7th, 2012
9:25 pm
And people got on to me in the 2nd inning for saying this is why he makes the big bucks. Can usually tell when a pitcher is locked in and fixin to dominate a lineup. On another note, Prado is looking pretty bad at the plate right now. Oh well, lets win the series tomorrow!!!
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:26 pm
Mark
I believe so, yes.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
9:27 pm
Well at least we know this Braves team hasn’t forgotten how to properly get their brains beat out
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
9:27 pm
Loosen those wrists boys – cap tippin’ can give you a hand cramp.
Jay DUbu
August 7th, 2012
9:27 pm
Bourn and Prado have cooled off at the same time, and Heyward is striking out like gang busters. I think once the top of the order gets back in a groove, with the pitching somewhat stablized, the Braves just make take over 1st place in the division.
Couch Tater
August 7th, 2012
9:29 pm
Can’t blame Uggla for this one
Uggla jinxed the winning streak by sitting, tonight. heh
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:29 pm
ncbravesfan90
When pitchers like Lucas Harrell (Astros), John Lannan (Nats), and many other losers out there completely shut down the Braves offense, it becomes really hard to give credit to an opposing pitcher, instead of blaming it on the offense.
But that’s just me.
sometimesiwonder
August 7th, 2012
9:29 pm
Minor battled……….. The line up has me perplexed. Sit the RH hitting Uggla (2 hits last night) and leave in LH Bourn (struggling a bit of late) against Hamels……. I guess that’s why Fredi gets the big bucks.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 2012
9:30 pm
Yea, Hamels didn’t walk anybody tonight and struck out six. Dude was on his game.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:30 pm
So, who got his FIRST complete game of the season – a five hit lockdown???
Cole Hamels, against the Braves.
Get ready, folks. Saturday. Tonight. Drip, drip. That dam is about to break.
September looms, when Braves’ hitters swoon…
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:31 pm
Can’t blame Uggla for this one?
We needed a RH bat so I’m not sure he didn’t contribute to it.
ChattTownBrian
August 7th, 2012
9:32 pm
Prado might still be adjusting to being an everyday guy. He weakens out as the year drags on. Even if you don’t check the numbers, his body language says it all. Nowhere near as animated as he is earlier in the year.
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
9:32 pm
Learned more about Minor’s progress tonight than in the wins. Well done. – A Bomb
My sentiment exactly. 3 months ago he’d have been buried by the end of the 2nd after a start like this. Hey, it happens. Believe Sheets gave up 3 in the 1st last week, didn’t he?
Bravesfaninnc
August 7th, 2012
9:33 pm
All the blame for tonight lost should be put on Minor. Sure the offenses did not get the job done tonight.But at the same time Minor can’t keep giving up homers . Tonight facing a very good pitcher in Cole Hamels It’s very frustrating that Minor could pitch a decent not great just decent game and not give up 3 unearned run.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
9:33 pm
If Uggla hadn’t been struggling, he would’ve been in the lineup and would’ve hit a 3-Run HR and then an RBI 2B.
So, there.
This loss is on Uggla.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:34 pm
Lots of pop-up’s tonight means lots of McLouth’s on the club who still have not learned the value of going to the opposite field.
Apparently, McLouth-oma is a contageous and resident condition that lingers long after the contagion is gone.
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
9:34 pm
Jayson Stark @jaysonst
Only two pitchers to throw CG shutouts against the Braves since June 1: Jason Hammel (6/16) & now Cole Hamels. Related only by the zeroes
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
9:35 pm
Dempster with a pretty good 2nd outing, only blemish being the 3 unearned thanks to an infield error but he leaves with a chance to win
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:37 pm
All the blame for tonight lost should be put on Minor. Sure the offenses did not get the job done tonight.But at the same time Minor can’t keep giving up homers . Tonight facing a very good pitcher in Cole Hamels It’s very frustrating that Minor could pitch a decent not great just decent game and not give up 3 unearned run.
Yeah, cuz Minor could’ve won the game 0-0…
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
9:37 pm
The line up has me perplexed. Sit the RH hitting Uggla (2 hits last night) and leave in LH Bourn (struggling a bit of late) against Hamels……. I guess that’s why Fredi gets the big bucks.
Dan Uggla against Hamels; .145/.226/.291 with 18 K’s in 62 plate appearances. A real good night to sit him.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
9:38 pm
Bravesfaninnc – I agree that Minor needs to get a handle on giving up so many home runs. That being said, as others have noted, in the past that first inning would have been enough to send Minor in a tailspin – but he’s learned a bit and matured a bit so he was able to settle down and pitch well enough to get a quality start. And as someone noted earlier, any pitcher is going to be 0′fer in games where the offense can’t score a single run.
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
9:38 pm
But, OBF, we’d have scored a lot of runs if he had thrown a shutout…
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:38 pm
Prado might still be adjusting to being an everyday guy. He weakens out as the year drags on. Even if you don’t check the numbers, his body language says it all. Nowhere near as animated as he is earlier in the year.
Agree. He and Uggs definitely need more days off… I think Martin’s extra work in the weight room and cages might be “hurting” him.
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:39 pm
Minor shoulda hit a HR. Then a shutout and we would’ve won.
The bum!!
uga-brave
August 7th, 2012
9:39 pm
minor showed some serious sand out there tonight.
prado, freeman, uggla, and janish have combined for two dingers since the all-star break.
gotta figure that is due to a correction in our favor going forward.
Disgusted
August 7th, 2012
9:40 pm
I am proud of Mike Minor for the way he settled down after a rough first IP.
A couple of months ago he might not have turned the game around, OK so we did not win but it was not Mike’s fault.
The progress of Mike Minor since late June is one of the highlights of the season and now Mike is one of the building blocks for the team.
The boys got beat by a first tiered pitcher, fair and square. Get em tommorrow nite.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:40 pm
MikeinFL: By the by, I agree with you. Minor pitched a gutty game after his 1st inning. Two months ago, he would’ve done an El Foldo. Pitched seven strong and saved a taxed bullpen.
No, approach is everything. This team does not know how to situationally hit against good pitching, and September is coming soon. That train will not be late, and The Denizens will be going ape when this 1-8 lineup replicates its Act III swoon.
uga-brave
August 7th, 2012
9:40 pm
due a correction in our favor.
VaBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:42 pm
Really great game tonight by the fellas, sure the Nats will take care of the AAA Astros and gain another game.
Disgusted
August 7th, 2012
9:43 pm
“When pitchers like Lucas Harrell (Astros), John Lannan (Nats), and many other losers out there completely shut down the Braves offense, it becomes really hard to give credit to an opposing pitcher, instead of blaming it on the offense.”
Lucas Harrell is not a bad pitcher based on this yr. And he is young. And as for tonight, well, the guys got beat by one of the best in today’s game.
The boys have been playing well, so we have been due for a couple of losses. Get em tommorrow and come back Uggla and do what you have done when your game is right.
Bravesfaninnc
August 7th, 2012
9:44 pm
@TheOnlyBravesFan @Lance I agree with you most of what you said but where I disagree with you guys is that Minor giving up this runs early against Hamels who you know 9 out 10 times he is going to pitch really well. Does put alt of pressure on the offenses. Normally losing 3-0 is not a big deal and the Braves have showing in the past that they can overcome this. But when you face Hamels you know that Minor is more then likely not going to pitch a no no but at the same time you expected him if he is going to give up a run to not give up more then two runs at the most.
brian
August 7th, 2012
9:46 pm
strong outing by Minor tonight. After the Phillies jumped on him in the first he was lights out. 7 IP and 3 runs in that ballpark should be good enough to win.
Hamels is a quality enough pitcher to tip your cap to for once
Mark
August 7th, 2012
9:48 pm
Guys – This isn’t meant to be a knock on anyone on our team but…Lets ask ourselves a question about tonights game.
When did Chipper, Sheffield, McGriff, Justice, McCann…sit out a game against a particular pitcher in a pennant race b/c the manager had zero confidence that they would help the team win a game?
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:48 pm
We might as well re-sign Nate McLouth, Rick Ankiel, Raul Mondesi, Troy Glaus, or Garrett Anderson. But that’s OK. We pay $13 mil to a RH guy we have to sit against lefty Cole Hamels because Fredi is scared that WHEN Hamels carves him up – again! – he’ll curl up in the fetal position, run for his blanky, suck his thumb, hide in a corner…
And “re-lose” his swing. WAY TO GO, FRANK, WAY TO PICK ‘EM!!!
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
9:48 pm
This is bad timing:
Paulie Pabst @PaulPabst
Cole Hamels on the @danpatrickshow tomorrow.
kelevra
August 7th, 2012
9:49 pm
give the rockies a few of our top arms(maybe teheran, graham salcedo and a throw-in) and get tulo over here next year to play third and break up all of our lefties….get it done wren
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
9:52 pm
I agree with Miamibeach. We should have sliced ropes to the opposite field the whole game, and knocked Hamels out in the 3rd. In fact, I don’t know why everyone doesn’t do it.
Disgusted
August 7th, 2012
9:53 pm
Uggla has been frustrating to watch, only thing I say about it is hope that he rights himself.
He has had some hits as of late, I do not see the signs that he will go on the tear like last yr, but we will see.
He was going good the first 200 AB of the yr and something just cascaded. What it is, I have no clue.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
9:53 pm
give the rockies a few of our top arms(maybe teheran, graham salcedo and a throw-in) and get tulo
Such a bad idea…. I’m not even a Juan Fran fan, but I’d rather have him play 3rd than do this.
brian
August 7th, 2012
9:55 pm
we got beat tonight – it happens in baseball. We got beat by Cole Hamels – one of the best pitchers in baseball and along with Clayton Kershaw one of the 2 best lefties in the game
Disgusted
August 7th, 2012
9:55 pm
That is easier said than done Mike in FL., Hammels is a quality pitcher and he had our number tonight.
Frustrating game to watch the offense, but we lost to a true Number One SP. Tonight he was vintage Hammels and pitched his best game of the yr.
So we start a new W streak tommorrow (God Willing).
Disgusted
August 7th, 2012
9:57 pm
“give the rockies a few of our top arms(maybe teheran, graham salcedo and a throw-in) and get tulo”
No thank You. Tulo’s $$$$$$$$ will not fit in here.
MAD
August 7th, 2012
9:58 pm
Really great game tonight by the fellas, sure the Nats will take care of the AAA Astros and gain another game.
Those Nats playing really well also. 2 hits through 7 and a bad game last night. they prob win tonight but they have their own issues. long way, that team might be getting a little tight already.
kelevra
August 7th, 2012
10:00 pm
tulo $$$$ will not fit in here???
uh tulo has one of the most team friendly contracts in all of baseball…an absolute bargain for his skills
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:04 pm
Uggla hits righties much better than lefties. he is almost like another LHed hitter in the lineup
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
10:07 pm
sarcasm, disgusted. sarcasm.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:07 pm
you think this is all that team friendly that it would fit in Atlanta where his numbers would go down some?
2014 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2015 30 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2016 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2017 32 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2018 33 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2019 34 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2020 35 Colorado Rockies $14,000,000
2021 36 Colorado Rockies *$15,000,000
Mark
August 7th, 2012
10:08 pm
It is what it is and IT isn’t goin away any time soon – So lets try and get em tomorrow!!
BananabanabobanaFefifoFilly
August 7th, 2012
10:12 pm
My pastor’s name is Nicky…………..My sister’s name is Vickie
My brother’s name is Rickie…………My father’s name is Dicky
My dog’s name is………………….Pierre (well, he’s a French Poodle, what ya expect?)
Gone Viral
August 7th, 2012
10:18 pm
I am *thrilled* with the way Mike Minor pitched tonight. We were down 3-0 after 1/3 of an inning. When Minor was pulled after 7, we were still down 3-0. Learning how to get out of jams is the one aspect of his game that I have questioned. Today, he manned up and deserves a lot of praise in the process.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
10:20 pm
Bravesfaninnc – you are absolutely correct that giving up 3 runs in the first inning against a pitcher of Hamels caliber puts pressure on an offense. But it does happen. And when it does, the Braves offense has got to respond by scoring runs.
Lance
August 7th, 2012
10:21 pm
Well said Gone Viral
ACE
August 7th, 2012
10:22 pm
There will be plenty of cap tipping going on tonight.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
10:23 pm
ask the Reds if late season division games are tough
*Chris Johnson was a heck of a pickup by Arizona
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:23 pm
hopefully. on the other hand getting behind early can take some of the pressure off too
brian
August 7th, 2012
10:26 pm
agree Nolie – steep contract for Tulo.
We do not need a SS
Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 2012
10:28 pm
Final gamer is up:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/08/07/streak-vs-phillies-ends-in-shutout-loss/
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:29 pm
thank you Carroll. have a nice night.
DiamondbackMac
August 7th, 2012
10:30 pm
TheABomb
Learned more about Minor’s progress tonight than in the wins. Well done.
I agree.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
10:31 pm
nolie: it makes you wonder what this front office – an MLB front office! – uses in the way of evaluation and intel to determine positional player acquisitions. There had to be people from our end who had to determine what you just said – that Uggla had a finite set of hitting skills that, given his relatively low batting average, was not worth the $13 mil a year this team would invest. That the trade should’ve never been made. That the Braves should’ve looked elsewhere to find a better bat at $10 mil-plus a year. An evaluation that, barring injury, would’ve garnered a steady bat. The Twins made that determination in Josh Wllingham and it has paid off for them. But there are organizations out there that know hitting from the moment they wake up in the morning.
The Braves are not one of them.
Gone Viral
August 7th, 2012
10:31 pm
“on the other hand getting behind early can take some of the pressure off too”
I don’t get that from this. He was under duress all night with runners in scoring position in at least three of the other six innings. And he hasn’t behaved previously like someone who feels less pressure when they get behind.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:34 pm
oh I wasn’t saying that was necessarily true here GV, I think you are more than likely right in your evaluation. I certainly hope so anyway.
Gone Viral
August 7th, 2012
10:36 pm
The one thing I would rather Minor stop doing is stop being so honest and detailed in his pitching evaluations. Let’s go back to the Bull Durham cliches. Guys on the other teams have internet, too.
Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 2012
10:37 pm
postgame quotes are up….
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/08/07/braves-quotes-after-tuesdays-loss-to-phillies/
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:37 pm
I hve said this before……Mr. Wren talked with Fredi about Uggla and I think he just or mostly looked at the Home Run propensity and really felt the other stats would be at least average….again, he project 30 plus HR and with FG blessing Uggla became the multi-million dollar recipient.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:39 pm
MBBF, I think if you look at Uggla’s last three years in Miami you can see what the Braves hoped would continue here. not great BAs but good OBP and pop for a second baseman. I’m not sure it is fair to think that they should have known that he would get much more streaky than he was.
Kinda like Nate, I can see where they thought things were gonna go, they just didn’t go there.
Stuff happens. Remember Reggie?
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
10:42 pm
What has happened in Colorado? I saw today that they have 2 more wins than the Astros which means they are bad. If we were to go after someone on that roster, I’d have to think about it for one second, eliminate Tulowitski and decide on Carlos Gonzalez. Then we’d have an outfielder.
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:43 pm
Addendum….I really feel Dan’s work ethic…”hustle, etc.” played strongly in the acquisition. However, one must wonder the ‘ethics’ of swing correction and willingness to adjust accordingly—Walker’s take on Uggs would be insightful.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:44 pm
Cargo’s away splits are nothing to write home about, another Coors baby IMO
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
10:46 pm
Another extra inning win in the making for the Nationals in Houston tonight.
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
10:46 pm
Nat/Stros bottom of the 9th tied at 2. Take out 2 Marlin games this month and the Nats really aren’t scoring a lot of runs in August.
*Braves are scoring this month but when they lose they don’t go all out. From July 1 to Current, in 9 out of their 11 total losses in that time, they’ve scored 2 runs or less …. so that means the Braves magic number for winning is 3 runs.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
Stuff happens… repeatedly. Remember Nate McLouth? When Marlins announcers in the past tell viewers that Dan Uggla is streaky, that means that his streakiness is not any kind of secret. Add that cozy LF wall in Miami’s old stadium, and one would have a lot to be wary about. Seriously, does anyone in this organization know anything about hitting and players??? You have to go back to Gary Sheffield to find a successful transaction involving a hitter who contributed to a Braves’ lineup. Jeez, wasn’t that in the last century or something???
Pathetic. That’s just how I feel about this organization’s ability to evaluate hitting – from the MLB all the way down to their inability to develop OF’s. Hell, they may score 6 tomorrow, but tonight is what you have to worry about. September gets tough, and that’s when this lineup shrinks…
When it gets tough.
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
@Nolieee……Nicely capsulated Nolie; the nebulous nature of a crapshoot in many respects.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
a lot of hitters, especially experienced ones , are hesitant top change what has worked b4 for them, and stay with what they are comfortable with. Since so very much of hitting is confidence , there may be some validity to that approach. It is, afterall, their career and they might be somewhere else in a while. Plus even when they do try, it is a difficult experience for most.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:50 pm
say what you will about the park but his last three OPS+ were 126, 111, and 131 there, so it was not JUST the park
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:52 pm
You know @MiaBchBravesFan: You do make a valid point about Sheffield–he was pretty dang good….however, wasn’t Edgar Renteria deal after Gary’s hike?
nolie
August 7th, 2012
10:54 pm
Gary was a near HOF hitter. he was good just about everywhere.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
10:56 pm
my guestimate is the braves win around 92 games this year and end up with one of the wildcards…after that we might win it all and we might not
then we are going to add some people and subtract some people-im not going to be happy with some of both of those moves and its not gonna make the team as strong as I would like
but in february of 2013 I’m damn sure gonna be excited about the braves season (just like I am for the rest of this one)
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:56 pm
@Noliee….change is indeed difficult….however, it is inevitable. Not for Uggs ‘[swing] though–I lay dirt at his feet with the best of ‘em on here–and, all along I am steadfast that he can still be the Uggs of old real soon.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
10:58 pm
oh hell with Hmmms comment I expect to see the rule of 3’s (or whatever the heck it is) to be discussed again…who is the blogger that beats that one into the ground?
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
10:59 pm
81 games at JRS would contribute significantly to those OPS numbers – as well as that upper-cut swing that has made him significantly less of a threat at TF. Let’s see where those OPS numbers are in the last season-plus.
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
10:59 pm
There was that McGriff guy.
But seriously, the Braves are a pitching franchise. Mike Maddux, Denny Nagle, John Smoltz, John Burkett – you could probably name 10 who contributed mightily to the pitching staff. We just haven’t been big on trading for offense. We’d always pick up a bat or two as a PH in Sept when the roster expanded.
How many years have we been promised a LFer? Since 2009 I think.
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
10:59 pm
@tiger297…..”My guestimate…….”
Mine is and has been 95…..we’re real close.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:00 pm
i’m struggling to remember but didn’t we trade for a 1B that hit pretty good for the year or so he was with us?
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:01 pm
You have to go back to Gary Sheffield to find a successful transaction involving a hitter who contributed to a Braves’ lineup. Jeez, wasn’t that in the last century or something???
Teixeira?
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:01 pm
nah, a lot of big leaguers never change their approach, afterall it got them to the point of being one of the approximately 1000 best players in the world. He may refine his mechanics, hopefully, but I doubt he makes any big lasting change in his approach. everybody here seems to forget that after the first two months he was leading NL second basemen in just about every stat there is.
hope he can bounce back. we’ll see
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:01 pm
Teixeria yeah thats his name..
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:01 pm
damn you, Tiger. Damn you, sir!
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:02 pm
Hiya tiger, how ya doi’ buddy?
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
11:03 pm
@tiger297…..Some folk only harken to his slow start…..in the long run, any fifth grader could tell the Mark was/is a fantastically gifted batsman.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:03 pm
capt – yeah my optimistic number is 96…but I’m a cynic so 92 it is-mainly because we have enough games left a swoon is almost inevitable
brian
August 7th, 2012
11:04 pm
Colorado is not going to trade Carlos Gonzalez but for the fun of it, what are his home and away splits? Hitting .261 away with 7 HR this year if I read it right.
Still he is young and does have a relatively team friendly contract.
Don’t know why they would move him but he is someone who you would move top prospects for
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:05 pm
sorry mike
brilliant minds and all
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:05 pm
nolie – i’m doing well just busy as heck
brian
August 7th, 2012
11:05 pm
neither Tex trade worked out well for us but his stats while a Brave were amazing
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
11:05 pm
When Uggly gets that cowboy boot out of his @ss….watch out/three run jacks will become the favorite ‘fast food.’
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
11:06 pm
I saw this on Twitter last night, and thought it was an amusing twist from a Nats’ fan on ideas often expressed here:
Luke Russert @LukeRussert
Thank goodness #Nats 14 hits and a L wld have been terrible. Freckin #Braves won’t stop winning, it’s remarkable.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:08 pm
I unsuccessfully try to forget the Teixeira trade on a daily basis. Never has so much been given for so little (really, nothing) in return.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:09 pm
Cargo hits about 750 away for his career and over 1000 at home. so guessing he would be an 800 hitter at the Ted. not bad , but not really great either and starting 1n 2015 he is coming up on some big bucks
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:10 pm
I can tell MiaBch has never been on the opposite side of a bad marriage
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:10 pm
no, the Butler trade was nothing in return. Tex did just what was expected of him.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:11 pm
who would marry an old grouch like MBBF? j/k
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:12 pm
Luke Russert @LukeRussert
Thank goodness #Nats 14 hits and a L wld have been terrible. Freckin #Braves won’t stop winning, it’s remarkable.
But I thought the Braves sukk…. we’re not remarkable
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:13 pm
VJ – there are very few things in the world that are truly unique
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:13 pm
Astros making the Nats work, at the very least.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:13 pm
Astros making the Nats work, at the very least.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:13 pm
Back to back extra inning games for the gNats. Maybe they’ll do an El Foldo and help us out.
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
11:14 pm
Took the bunt off…
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:14 pm
careful nolie she (she right I can’t remember sometimes) isn’t that far a drive from you
Capt.Mudd
August 7th, 2012
11:15 pm
@VJ……Whenever it becomes apparent that we are not going away; naturally Nat fans are seeing a sweat drenched Stephen Strasburg ambulating in haste from a Sunday “nightmare” in Atlanta—my, my……….Could that happen again?
Venice Jim
August 7th, 2012
11:16 pm
DFA Altuve!!!
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:16 pm
100-loss teams are so hard to watch.
Harper, Zimmerman, Laroche for the Nationals. Shoot the horse.
WASHINGTON 2 HOUSTON 2 TOP 11
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:16 pm
LOL – never been married. Why buy the cow when you can rent the milk. But yeah, I can’t stand myself sometimes neither. That said, we manage alright.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
11:16 pm
This damn Astros are horrible.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:17 pm
MBBF a she? I thought he was some kinda sports coach, pointyball or sumthang?
I think you are thinking of MiBF in Michigan?
SNEAKY PETE
August 7th, 2012
11:19 pm
MBBF is Lou/Earl IMO
keylargo
August 7th, 2012
11:20 pm
I still think the Marlins would dump Josh Johnson, who is signed next year for $13+ M, for two of our young pitchers and a good prospect. One would have to be Delgado or Teheran. That’s all they are doing now is dumping salary in a panic mode. I don’t care what they say publically money talks to that crew down there and if they can dump $13M and get two or three players that make their roster next year at $.5 M it could get done.
We need a true ace to compete in the playoffs.
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:20 pm
Pathetic. That’s just how I feel about this organization’s ability to evaluate hitting
Well, you feel the need to create some kind of drama just about every night.
Anyway, just checked, and since the start of the 2006 season (the end of the golden era of Braves’ baseball), the Braves are 4th in the National League in runs scored. Just 28 runs behind 3rd place St. Louis, and substantially trailing only the Coors-fed Rockies, and the billion dollar Phillies.
Seems that someone in the organization has some idea about offensive baseball.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:21 pm
C’mon ’stros.
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:21 pm
Agree, Sneaky Pete.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:23 pm
Harper F6
Zimmerman KC
LaRoche 3U
MICKEY! STOREY!
WASHINGTON 2 HOUSTON 2 BOT 11
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
11:24 pm
One more chance for the Astros…
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:24 pm
Well, if nothing else, Houston is wearing out Washington’s bullpen. 6 pitchers last night; only four tonight, but the night’s still young… hope they play 21 innings.
nolie
August 7th, 2012
11:24 pm
C’mon ’stros!!!!
TuffShhhtuff
August 7th, 2012
11:26 pm
OK it’s the bottom of the 11th tied 2-2 at Houston. Justin Maxwell is already 0-4, and comes up third. Why can’t he do the same thing to the Gnats he did to the Braves. If there’s any justice he will hit one out for the win. Do the Gnats know how to pitch him and ATL doesn’t?
MikeInFl
August 7th, 2012
11:27 pm
ah, there’s #5.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:28 pm
Why can’t Maxwell do the same thing he did against the Braves?
Because the Nationals saw the tape and have thrown him NOTHING but sliders. Dumb us.
David O'Brien
August 7th, 2012
11:29 pm
Don’t know if you guys have seen this link, but this video that the Braves Fan Cave guy did on Chipper’s Twitter exploits is pretty darn clever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ttZNc0Nfxg
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:29 pm
Storen in for the Nats to face Francisco with 1 out.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:31 pm
Maxwell’s got the Uggla swing in full force.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:35 pm
MikeinFL: no drama, just call ‘em as I see ‘em. We’re all entitled to our opinions. As far as that stat, it means nothing when the team can’t hit in September. Tell ya what. I’m not a stat head, but I am sure someone can find how the Braves hit in September for the past six seasons-plus. Use that, a more accurate breakdown, and see what those numbers say.
Sometimes, perception is reality. You start getting it in your organizational DNA that when September comes, you go into a shell. That speaks to bad team construct and poor positional player evaluation. That’s how I feel. I’m a football guy, but am a Braves’ fan first. I get mad at ‘em, then go back to ‘em b/c the Braves are a lifetime relationship for me that goes back to the earliest reaches of my formative years.
Like any sports’ fan relationship, I get to love and criticize at my discretion. As do many on this blog.
TuffShhhtuff
August 7th, 2012
11:36 pm
What is it that the Gnats know about Justin Maxwell that the Braves don’t? Don’t they scout these games? He’s 0-5 tonight. BTW, “The A Bomb” Gametracker on MLB said the first two strikes were 4 seam fastballs. Struck him out with a slider. Don’t know how reliable that is.
ACE
August 7th, 2012
11:37 pm
Some classic Fredi quotes. Minor gave us a great chance to win other than Cole pitching a complete game shutout. What an astute command of the obivious.
ACE
August 7th, 2012
11:39 pm
Another Gem by Fredi. On Howard’s homer, it was a ball out over the plate, he’s a big boy, we have seen him do that before.
TuffShhhtuff
August 7th, 2012
11:39 pm
Of course the Gnats will come up with a way to manufacture a run here shortly, which is something that is not even in FG’s vocabulary.
JC Brave
August 7th, 2012
11:43 pm
There we go… Nationals win.
I guess the Astros magic only works against the Braves… go figure…
Hmmmm
August 7th, 2012
11:44 pm
Nats lead oh well, got 2 months to make up 4 games … so that’s not really important right now. The unfortunate side of it, is that even with the Braves playing good baseball the Nats are still managing to gain in the standings when they do lose.
MiaBchBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:44 pm
I rest my case.
TuffShhhtuff
August 7th, 2012
11:44 pm
I know sooner said it, then they did it. Somebody show FG the tape of this game and how to bunt and manufacture a run when you need to, and he will see why the Gnats are in first place playing at a .600 clip.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:44 pm
Shoot the horse.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:46 pm
Need to kick the Astros out of baseball…. they sukk so bad.
Good night folks!
ACE
August 7th, 2012
11:52 pm
The Cards closing in on the WC.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:52 pm
mercy braves have won 70% of the last how many games…and we are still bitching?
TuffShhhtuff
August 7th, 2012
11:53 pm
*****Hmmmmm****** Strange you just said that. I did an analytical study tonight(bored while the Braves were losing) and ran it out through the end of the year. The way I see it the Braves will have to avoid any kind of losing streak at all, and the Gnats will need to hit one of at least 6-7 games. If they keep playing at a .600 clip, or even close, and the Braves keep playing at a .575 clip, or even slightly higher the Gnats win the division by 3 games. I took each series for the Braves for the rest of the year and gave it optimistic results. So optimistic that in fact I came up with the Braves going 30-21 for the remainder of the games, which could be a stretch. I say the Braves finish at 94-68 and the Gnats finish at 97-65. I see the Braves chances of winning the division at only about 50/50 right now, and the wildcard could be in doubt with St. Louis getting hot with a 4 game win streak, and about to replace ATL as the 2nd wildcard team. Wish I could be more optimistic, but just can’t do it right now, in running the numbers.
The A Bomb
August 7th, 2012
11:53 pm
Brad Mills looking for a promotion to the International League next season.
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:55 pm
cards play 7 against the nats 6 against the reds and 6 against the pirates…I’m ok with them getting hot as long as they kick the crap outta those 3 teams (specally the nats & pirates)
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 7th, 2012
11:55 pm
mercy braves have won 70% of the last how many games…and we are still bitching?
Sarcasm…. I do it quite often, actually.
Good night!
tiger297
August 7th, 2012
11:57 pm
I also left out the 4 against the dodgers…so they can do some damage to a lot of the other wildcard contenders
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:00 am
ummm the braves aren’t the 2nd place wildcard team
TuffShhhtuff
August 8th, 2012
12:03 am
If you pull up wildcard race on MLB.com, as I did earlier tonight, it shows the Braves as the 2nd WC team right now.
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:05 am
Atlanta & Pittsburgh are basically tied for the Wild Card at this point- the Braves have one more win (63-47 to 62-47) and have played one more game
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:06 am
And both have a 2.5 game lead on St. Louis
Capt.Mudd
August 8th, 2012
12:06 am
@Ace…..You still out there?
keylargo
August 8th, 2012
12:07 am
Atlanta 63 47 .573 - 0
Pittsburgh 62 47 .569 - 0
Figure this one out from MLB.com Atlanta one more win but tied for the wild card with Pitt.
The A Bomb
August 8th, 2012
12:07 am
WASHINGTON 3 HOUSTON 2 FINAL – 12
Unbelivable catch by Bernardina.
Exercise in futility. AL West has to be salivating at all these extra wins next season. Can’t wait for them to get the hell out of the NL where they pad NL Central team’s records. Pathetic.
TuffShhhtuff
August 8th, 2012
12:07 am
My mistake, ****tiger297***, as of now it’s reversed with the Pirates slightly ahead, but I swear it was the other way around earlier tonight(3-4 hrs. ago) I know the Braves lost but don’t know what the Pirates did tonight. Anyway, doesn’t much matter, it’s so close.
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:08 am
Wow- Bernadina with a hell of a catch to end the game…would have at least tied it
JC Brave
August 8th, 2012
12:08 am
The piece of monkey crap Astros have done it again.
It appears Maxwell’s exploits only work against the Braves… as he’s 1-for-8 so far against the Gnats…
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:09 am
Pirates got smoked tonight by Arizona, 10-4
Hmmmm
August 8th, 2012
12:09 am
“it shows the Braves as the 2nd WC team right now”
the Pirate game probably wasn’t over when you looked, that’s why they were in front, they were still playing while the Braves had already lost. Then when they lost too, the standings went back to what they were with the Braves ahead by percentage points
TuffShhhtuff
August 8th, 2012
12:09 am
Problem is St. Louis is hot as a firecracker right now, 4 game win streak, and we all know what happens when they get going at the end of the year. A 2.5 game deficit is nothing to them.
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:10 am
maybe if you pulled it up after braves game ended and before pirates did…but its not that way now
cab – braves are 1/2 game up right now (know that won’t exist at the end of the season but today it do)
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:11 am
St. Louis also lost tonight and the Dodgers are down 1-0 to the Rockies in the bottom of the 6th
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:12 am
tiger-
Just typing it as MLB has it listed- technically, yes, the Braves are .5 up based on the one more game they have played
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:13 am
Although I suppose it is listed that way because there are 2 teams this year, so both are technically “leading” the wild card race…
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:14 am
beauty of the 2nd wildcard especially with the cardinals schedule – for the cardinals to pass the braves they will ahve to beat up on the teams ahead or close to us. That helps us
Hmmmm
August 8th, 2012
12:16 am
Aug 24 – Sept 2 is when we’ll probably know what team the Cardinals are (3 city road trip: Reds/Pirates/Nats). Their season could come down to the final 3 games against current NL Central leader, Reds (might be a series the Braves have to scoreboard watch while they’re playing the Pirates)
cabravesfan
August 8th, 2012
12:16 am
Anyways, I am off to bed…it’s really hot and I have to be up early.
Good night all!
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:19 am
night cab
TuffShhhtuff
August 8th, 2012
12:20 am
I will say it now, and hope it doesn’t happen that way, but the make or break stretch for the Braves will be coming up soon. It’s from 17-26 August, a 10 game “B” of a schedule that has 3 with the Dodgers, 3 with Washington, and 4 with the Giants. That will tell the tale most likely.
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:22 am
hmmm-i feel the same way about our 10 consecutive games against giants/dodgers/nats
reds have the easiest schedule remaining
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:24 am
the best/worst part of baseball is despite how big that 10 game stretch is the braves likely go .500 through it and we don’t learn much except we aren’t out of it yet
tiger297
August 8th, 2012
12:24 am
when its sleepy time down south…
The A Bomb
August 8th, 2012
12:25 am
Plus we have that end-of-the-year series at Pittsburgh.
20 years after Francisco Cabrera….think it’ll be a theme for those guys?
Venice Jim
August 8th, 2012
12:49 am
Still working for another 40 minutes – at least my computer is back off the DL…
Venice Jim
August 8th, 2012
12:50 am
Chipper Jones @RealCJ10
Stinker tonite. Tip of the cap to Hollywood! Thx for all the prayers for Shea. He is doing great after sinus surgery yest. Gotta win tmrw!!!
Venice Jim
August 8th, 2012
1:18 am
Arizona is the same number of games out of first as the Braves, despite being only 2 games over .500…
Venice Jim
August 8th, 2012
1:23 am
Time to prepare to go home…shutting down…
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:29 am
Hello everyone! Not tipping my hat to Hammels. The Braves’ bats sucked again. Can’t blame Minor on this one too. Braves bats are terrible right now, and it needs to be fixed.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:31 am
Braves bats better wake up! Can’t do this against the Dodgers, and San Fran, as well as the Nats.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:31 am
They all have good pitching.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:33 am
Wren please take my advice, and get us a bat. You’ll see this happen in the Playoffs.
Waffle House or Bust
August 8th, 2012
1:34 am
And…..
Waffle House or Bust
August 8th, 2012
1:38 am
Nothing wrong with losing to a great pitcher like tonight but this offense scares me. The deeper you get into the playoffs the better opposing pitchers Braves will have to hit. Go ahead and tip your caps now but be ready come playoff time because you won’t be seeing Astro type pitching in October.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:40 am
Bats sucked, and that’s why the Braves lost. Not because Hamels is good. Braves offense went to sleep again.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:41 am
Braves can’t do this in the Playoffs. They have to find ways to win.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:50 am
Not mad , but disappionted, because I expected better than what I saw.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
1:52 am
Waffle – Playoffs are what worries me a little bit, and the Bats bother me some right now, but I will be cool…..
Mitchell
August 8th, 2012
2:04 am
Congratulations to the Washington Nationals on winning the division tonight.
Hats off to the Nats.
The race is over. They won.
The end.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
2:09 am
THe Braves need to hit, or they will bust again down the stretch, so if the Braves want to make it to the Playoffs? They better keep it going, and not give one inch. Play hard, and start hitting, or be watching the Playoffs on T.V. again.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
2:12 am
Each time you hit like sh*t! You owe me 20 push – ups…….Little humor to keep cool.
Ward
August 8th, 2012
2:16 am
All, have a good one! I’m cool…….Just hope the bats get going? Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!” A little pep talk wouldn’t hurt.
nolie
August 8th, 2012
2:26 am
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
2:45 am
Just saw that catch for the last out in the Nats game…..
….they want this.
Good for them.
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
2:49 am
We’ll hit Ward. Just ran up against a buzz-saw tonight…..it happens.
We’ll hit.
tip of the morning to you
August 8th, 2012
5:13 am
the game last night sucked
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
7:10 am
Braves can’t hit Hamels
I don’t think anyone could last night. Hamels was on his game plus. It happens.
Halbert
August 8th, 2012
7:30 am
Last night is exactly why I dont expect this team to go deep into the playoffs if they even get there. Streaky offense that struggles to manufacture enough runs to win against a decent pitcher. End of story.
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
7:51 am
Halbert
“Last night is exactly why I dont expect this team to go deep into the playoffs if they even get there. Streaky offense that struggles to manufacture enough runs to win against a decent pitcher. End of story.”
Co-Sign, and we DONT have a Shutdown ace that can go 1 on 1 against another teams #1 starter
I called it 2 weeks ago that we Lose that Stupid 1 Game Wildcard Elimination created by Dud Selig…It should be a best of 3
And Forget about catching The Curley W’s. They are fixin to take the AAA Astros to the Woodshed
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
7:53 am
tip of the morning to you
“the game last night sucked”
I turned It off after the 4th inning, knowing the offense was gonna mail it in so they could go hit up the Broad street Bars…
I chose to do yardwork instead. Not many times its 80 degrees in August in Jaw-Juh
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
7:54 am
Last night is exactly why I dont expect this team to go deep into the playoffs if they even get there. Streaky offense that struggles to manufacture enough runs to win against a decent pitcher. End of story.
Shut down the blog. Halbert’s brought ultimate wisdom down from the mountain.
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
7:55 am
Jeff R
—-Braves can’t hit Hamels
“I don’t think anyone could last night. Hamels was on his game plus. It happens.”
The 91-95 Braves teams would’ve atleast made him work and put up a fight instead of mailing it in…Especially that 93 team, they played every game as if it was Win or Go Home
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
7:57 am
Yes, all is lost. The Braves are a whopping 4 games behind the Nats with… 52 games to play.
The Bravos should just forfeit for the remainder of the season. Save themselves the humiliation.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
7:59 am
Does everyone not realize that last night we lost to a pitcher who just received a $143 million contract because he’s a really goos pitcher?
And how about the fact that Minor gave up three in the first, looked like he was going to get lit up all night, yet gave up nothing else and went 7IP? Looks like the kid might just be figuring it all out. Earlier in the season he would have given uop another three HR, been torched and lasted 2 and 1/3Innings..
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
7:59 am
Gotta Take the Rubber Match Today, even though it wont be easy, And we Most Definitely need to take 2 out of 3 in The Rotten Apple….
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
8:00 am
Tomahawkin…
And the ‘57 braves could have done such-and-such and the ‘27 Yankees coulda, woulda…
I think you’re not giving Hamels enough credit. Darn good pitcher, though overpaid.
And do we really expect the Braves to have nothing but good pitching and good hitting every game? These guys aren’t machines (though Shaun tends to think so)
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
8:00 am
Lew
No Pitcher Is Worth that kind of Money…In This Economy, Its abt as Sick as That Extortion Contract Drew Brees Con’d out of the Aints
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
8:01 am
@Jeff R
Hamels is a Good pitcher, No Doubt, But the Braves have had decent success against him in the past….
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
8:02 am
Jeff R
“Yes, all is lost. The Braves are a whopping 4 games behind the Nats with… 52 games to play.
The Bravos should just forfeit for the remainder of the season. Save themselves the humiliation.”
Uggh, yeah, The 2012 Curley W’s are just like the 1994 Expos
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
8:05 am
@Jeff R
“And do we really expect the Braves to have nothing but good pitching and good hitting every game? These guys aren’t machines (though Shaun tends to think so) ”
No, I called it last night that we were due for a game like this
I’m still amazed at how silent the Philly crowds are as opposed to years past. Their Noise level rivals our Silent Corporate Crowds (Excluding that Loud Annoying woman who does the Lets Go every atbat)
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
8:06 am
No Pitcher Is Worth that kind of Money…In This Economy, Its abt as Sick as That Extortion Contract Drew Brees Con’d out of the Aints
There’s still something of a free market in this country. If Hamels can cut a great deal for himself, more power to him. I just wouldn’t have paid that much for his services had I been the Phils’ GM.
Hamels is a Good pitcher, No Doubt, But the Braves have had decent success against him in the past….
Okay, but not last night. Just didn’t happen. But it doesn’t mean that the Braves are in trouble. One game doesn’t a trend make.
And we didn’t think that the Nats would clean up on the Astros? That the Braves had the tougher opponent in the Phils?
These are battles. The war is far from over.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
8:09 am
Tomahawkin, I don’t know if the Nats are the latest version of the ‘94 Expos. Maybe. But a lot of ball left.
And, yes, the Phils’ fans know they’re just cruise to the off-season. Hence, the Sound of Silence.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
8:09 am
THawkin – Yep, ridiculous contracts are being handed out. Don’t look for the practice to end with Hamels’ contract.
Tomahawkin
August 8th, 2012
8:11 am
@Lew
As Much As I rip our Owners for being Cheap, I’m glad they stay away from those types of contracts…The Blowe Experiement was bad enough
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
8:18 am
Manager Fredi Gonzalez has said the idea of possibly going to a six-man rotation when Hanson returns for the remainder of August makes some sense.
Good grief. Just when I have hopes that Fredo is getting a handle on things, he gives you one of these.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
8:25 am
First, there were 4-man rotations augmented by a fifth starter during the dog days. Now it’s five starters with a sixth (?) to give poor, overworked starting pitchers a break.
Yep, making 200 innings a season might just be asking too much from a starter!
I think our friends in the Land of the Rising Sun have it right: what is it, 9-man rotations or something like that?
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
8:30 am
I’ve never liked the 1 game format for the wildcard playin/playoff game or whatever they want to call it…
Lemke's Knuckler
August 8th, 2012
8:32 am
Just caught us on some of the responses to my comment on the previous blog that Medlen will be a consistent 15 game winner. To me, a consistent 15-game winner is someone that wins 13-18 most seasons, obviously with a few exceptions for injury or lack of run support or whatever. I never said he would be in the same category as the elite pitchers in baseball. But I can see him putting up multiple seasons with a 3.00 ERA and a 14-8 or 17-9 record, much like Tim Hudson. Does that make more sense, you boobs!!!
All I have to say is you guys keep selling the kid short and come back and talk to me in 10 years when the rest of the world has finally caught up and realized how good of a pitcher he is. I’m still shocked that you guys can watch the games and not notice it too.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
8:33 am
I’ve never liked the 1 game format for the wildcard playin/playoff game or whatever they want to call it…
↑↑Didn’t mean to submit that yet↑↑
I like the idea of playing a 3 game set in 2 days 1 game day 1 and 2 if needed on day 2. I think it would be a great way for MLB to solve the issue of not wanting to make a team sit for multiple days waiting on a series to conclude.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
8:38 am
Last night is exactly why I dont expect this team to go deep into the playoffs if they even get there. Streaky offense that struggles to manufacture enough runs to win against a decent pitcher. End of story.
Of course. It’s NEVER the opposing pitcher spinning a great game. Can’t give Cole Hamels, one of the ten best pitchers in the sport, any credit at all for what happened last night. It’s gotta be that streaky offense.
Give me a friggin break.
Lemke's Knuckler
August 8th, 2012
8:39 am
What do you guys think about what the Rockies are doing with their “Project 5183″. Using a 4-man rotation and pulling them after 75 pitches regardless of the situation, then having 2 “piggyback” starters to come in and fill the gap to the setup guys and closer.
It should be an epic fail, but wouldn’t it be funny if the Rockies led the NL in ERA next year. Hilarious. Jim Tracy has some big kahunas.
Lemke's Knuckler
August 8th, 2012
8:40 am
Crazy…”I like the idea of playing a 3 game set in 2 days 1 game day 1 and 2 if needed on day 2. I think it would be a great way for MLB to solve the issue of not wanting to make a team sit for multiple days waiting on a series to conclude.”
First round double-header? You have me intrigued…
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
8:41 am
No Pitcher Is Worth that kind of Money…In This Economy, Its abt as Sick as That Extortion Contract Drew Brees Con’d out of the Aints
Gotta disagree… If you can find someone to pay you what you want then you’re worth it… That person might be a fool for overpaying you, but money is the same even if you’re getting paid by a fool. It’s free market, supply and demand pays… If more people could pitch like Hamels and lead a team like Brees then they wouldn’t get paid so much…
I’ve never once in my life complained about someone else’s pay, because I know if I was as gifted as they are I’d try to make as much as I could as well!!
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
8:41 am
2 more strikeouts for Heyward last night. He’s up to 110 on the season and is on pace for 162 strikeouts. Just bizarre. He’s struck out 44 times in his last 123 at bats while posting a .260/.348/.431 line in 141 PA’s.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
8:45 am
First round double-header? You have me intrigued…
I just think it would be fun to see… You’d have to start the series on the first day after the final game of the reg season that way you could get at least 1 day off before the NLDS. That only makes the division winner wait 3 days between the final reg season game and the start of the NLDS. But the union would probably vote it down….
Trader Jack
August 8th, 2012
8:47 am
One stinkin’ loss and the cliff jumpers are back.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
8:47 am
What do you guys think about what the Rockies are doing with their “Project 5183″. Using a 4-man rotation and pulling them after 75 pitches regardless of the situation
Since starting this project I believe they have the worst ERA in baseball… Seems dumb to me!!
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
8:48 am
Streaky offense that struggles to manufacture enough runs to win against a decent pitcher. End of story.
And by “decent pitcher”, I assume Cole Hamels? The guy the Braves hospitalized on July 27, winning 6-1? That guy?
Or would it be guys like Santana, Dickey, Strasburg, Gio, Bumgarner, those guys who have all taken losses against the Braves this year? Any of those?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
8:52 am
Since starting this project I believe they have the worst ERA in baseball… Seems dumb to me!!
Yeah, but I think they had the worst ERA before starting the project, too.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
8:56 am
Buster Olney’s blog this morning:
Michael Bourn’s market among rivals
One executive joked recently that there is not a more inevitable offseason connection than the Nationals and center fielder Michael Bourn, who is eligible for free agency in the fall. “Can we just put that one in the books now?” he said, noting all the factors in play. They are:
1. The Nationals need a center fielder, and Bourn is a former Gold Glove winner whose performance this year is charting very well. His UZR/150 rating is the best among those at his position, according to FanGraphs.
2. Bourn, 29, is at the peak of his career as a hitter, and his .756 OPS this season is his second-best. Bourn ranks sixth in the majors in runs scored, and of course, all of his damage has been done as a lead-off hitter. Washington’s leadoff hitters ranks 19th in OPS this year.
3. And Bourn is represented by Scott Boras — and there are a whole lot of Nationals represented by Boras, from Stephen Strasburg to Bryce Harper to Jayson Werth to others.
But another rival official noted all the money that the Phillies have freed from their payroll, with the trades of Hunter Pence, Shane Victorino and Joe Blanton. “You know who they want, right?” the official asked. “They love Michael Bourn.”
He was drafted and developed by the Phillies, of course, as a fourth-round pick in 2003, and the Phillies know all about his gregarious personality, and that he has a grinder’s mentality. For years, Charlie Manuel has tried to settle on a lead-off hitter, and sometimes he used Jimmy Rollins, sometimes Shane Victorino.
If the Phillies make a strong push for Bourn, it’s unclear whether they would be willing to outbid the Nationals. Washington opened this season with a payroll of $92 million and if its wealthy ownership is willing, it has a lot of room to grow under the luxury tax cap. Bourn figures to get a multi-year deal for something in the range of $16 million to $22 million annually, and as has been well-documented over the last six weeks, the Phillies already have a lot of payroll obligations well into the future, with $20 million-plus commitments to Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels and Ryan Howard on the books. The Phillies also will have to find a third baseman, a starting pitcher and at least one outfielder, depending on their internal evaluations of Domonic Brown and John Mayberry, Jr..
Josh Hamilton will be the most dynamic free agent outfielder this fall, albeit with a lot of questions about how much he can be counted on. But Bourn might be in the best leverage position of all the outfielders, if, in fact, the Nationals and Phillies — division rivals — focus on luring him away from another division rival, the Braves.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
8:59 am
Good grief. Just when I have hopes that Fredo is getting a handle on things, he gives you one of these.
Curious scoots, what part of the 6 man is most irksome? Is it that Hanson will be pitching again, or that Meds isn’t booted from the rotation?
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:01 am
Bourn figures to get a multi-year deal for something in the range of $16 million to $22 million annually - Buster Olney
Haha. So, is that just speculation from Buster? I mean, I think when he writes his blogs, he speaks to some executives and they throw around some numbers, right? Not just a shot in the dark.
So, does any Braves fan think Wren and the Braves will commit something like 16-17 million a year on a speed player like Michael Bourn who will be 30 years old on April 1st, 2013?
Also, does anyone really think Wren won’t make the qualifying offer so the Braves get a compensation pick if(when) Bourn leaves?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:04 am
What numbnuts pays $20MM+ for a guy who hit seven dingers in a career year and has a .750 OPS? I love the guy, but that’s so far off the scale of value that it becomes absurd.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:04 am
By the way, I see no reason why the Twins wouldn’t trade Denard Span. Ben Revere could and should take over in CF and Aaron Hicks is having a bounce back year in the minors. No reason not to sell high on Span this winter for a team in desperate need of all sorts of starting pitching.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:06 am
No reason not to sell high on Span this winter for a team in desperate need of all sorts of starting pitching.
I’m not a Span fan.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:07 am
What numbnuts pays $20MM+ for a guy who hit seven dingers in a career year and has a .750 OPS? I love the guy, but that’s so far off the scale of value that it becomes absurd.
I think the floor for Bourn is five years, 75 million. And I have no doubt that Boras will be seeking about 25 million or more than that right off the bat in early November and he’ll drag it out through Christmas. He’s a goner.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
9:07 am
Maybe we could get Nate back.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
9:08 am
What numbnuts pays $20MM+ for a guy who hit seven dingers in a career year and has a .750 OPS?
I too find this hard to believe. I suppose a Yankee could snap a femur and they’d suddenly be in play, much like Detroit with Fielder. But that speculation of AAV for Bourn is exactly what I was talking about when I said he has the potential to be the worst deal. I’d much rather this team sign a pitcher to $20M a year than to give Bourn $16M-$22M.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:09 am
I’m not a Span fan.
I like that he can take a walk……but I don’t like that it’s another LH hitter and has poor splits away from home.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:14 am
So, does any Braves fan think Wren and the Braves will commit something like 16-17 million a year on a speed player like Michael Bourn who will be 30 years old on April 1st, 2013?
Nope.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:15 am
I’d much rather this team sign a pitcher to $20M a year than to give Bourn $16M-$22M.
I’d rather pay the dang ballboys, if it came to that. That’s less insane.
Bourn is a complementary player, fercrissake. He brings a lot to the table for a team that has the other parts necessary to a good offense, but, geez, he can’t carry a team. Someone is telling me that the Nats might pay Bourn more than Ryan bleepin’ Zimmerman? That’s just off the planet, man.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:16 am
Maybe we could get Nate back.
Not a bad thought. Wonder what it would cost to pry Nate loose from the Orioles?
Lew
August 8th, 2012
9:17 am
Jerff R – Prado, Jurrjens, Teheran and Delgado.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:17 am
Someone is telling me that the Nats might pay Bourn more than Ryan bleepin’ Zimmerman? That’s just off the planet, man.
The way salaries are going in the game, quite possibly.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
9:17 am
And maybe a couple of low level prospects.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:18 am
Jerff R – Prado, Jurrjens, Teheran and Delgado.
Sounds fair. Prado’s a bencher, anyway. Teheran and Delgado are overrated prospects. Jurrjens might be the hardest to part with.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:21 am
Someone is telling me that the Nats might pay Bourn more than Ryan bleepin’ Zimmerman? That’s just off the planet, man.
They are paying Jayson Werth more. Hell, would anyone be surprised if the Dodgers said screw it, we’re moving Kemp to a corner and bringing in Bourn?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:21 am
So, the Nats pay Bourn something outrageous, and he replaces Adam Laroche (I assume Morse would move to 1B)? How exactly does that make them a better offensive team?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:26 am
They are paying Jayson Werth more.
Yeah, but there was opportunity value there, selling the perception that coming to DC was OK for a FA. Anyway…
I know the ownership in DC is big-flush, but one would think that they would cast at least a cautionary glance northward at what’s happened in Philly with outsized contracts.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
9:28 am
scoots….
And what they gain in CF defensively they’ll lose at 1B with Morse.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
9:29 am
scoots – I understand all the arguments against a 6 man rotation, and generally agree with you. However, Fredi is only talking about the 20 game stretch coming up, with no break. All our guys could probably benefit from an extra day rest duing this 3 week stretch, leading into the push during the final month. (especially Hanson and Hudson). Also give the team some extra opportunities to asses Hanson vs Medlen. I don’t see a lot wrong with the strategy.
Feel free to poke holes in this…I certainly respect your opinion.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:30 am
How exactly does that make them a better offensive team?
Certainly makes them better defensively.
I know the ownership in DC is big-flush, but one would think that they would cast at least a cautionary glance northward at what’s happened in Philly with outsized contracts.
Yeah, I’m trying to find serious suitors for Bourn aside from Philly, D.C. and Atlanta. It’s difficult. But, it’s the Boras factor. He always finds a out of nowhere player for his guys. I expect it to be the same with Bourn and he won’t have a team during the Winter Meetings – meaning, Wren will have already moved on.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:32 am
And what they gain in CF defensively they’ll lose at 1B with Morse
I know Adam is good with the glove, but please….
Bourn is one of the best defenders in the sport, period. It makes them better defensively. A lot better.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
9:32 am
One thing for sure about Bourn…SOMEONE will overpay and give too many years. I’d love to have him back, but not close to that price.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:33 am
Oh yes, San Francisco. Forgot about them. They will have serious interest in Michael as well.
DiamondbackMac
August 8th, 2012
9:33 am
Efrim
Concerning your 8:38. How is it that so many people can’t understand something so simple? Sometimes a great pitcher will just pitch so well that no one can do anything against him. It happens often enough each year to a lot of teams that everyone should be able to recognize it when it happens.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:35 am
San Fran is going to have serious money coming off of the books after 2013 – Lincecum, Pence, Zito…..
That’s like 60 million.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:38 am
Zito – 27 million
Lincecum – 22.25 million
Pence – 14 million
63.25 million in 3 players for 2013. Wow.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
9:38 am
I would imagine the Giants would try to extend Lincecum despite his poor year.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:39 am
So what does everyone think McCann will get offered by an AL team if he reaches free agency? Sigh….
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
9:39 am
For all those bashing Wren…check out what the Phillies fans and writers are saying about Rubin.
He loaded up with fat, long, expensive contracts…Howard is one of the worse in MLB…Rollins, Utley, etc. Old guys making huge money into their 40s (or at least late 30s) He was intoxicated by the WS ring.
They need to get rid of Cliff Lee…Dodgers claimed him on waivers, but they pulled him back. I know they want some prospects (their farm is a dust bowl)…but they could have dumped $75M on LA. That would have been 1 more step toward moving on. Philadelphia Enquirer beat writer did a whole column on that blunder.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
9:40 am
Don’t see the Braves paying for Bourn, Washington and Philly both can offer more, and probably will offer more.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:40 am
I would imagine the Giants would try to extend Lincecum despite his poor year.
I’d pass if I were them. Cain, Bumgarner is a fine 1-2.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:42 am
For all those bashing Wren…check out what the Phillies fans and writers are saying about Rubin.
He should be fired. He isn’t the guy to reshape that roster and he’s given out contracts just to keep the run going. Now that it’s over, he needs to go.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:45 am
I know Adam is good with the glove, but please….
Bourn is one of the best defenders in the sport, period. It makes them better defensively. A lot better.
Rather have a standout CF glove than an equivalent at first, if that’s the choice. Up-the-middle defense is primary.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
9:45 am
Braves, Nationals, Phillies, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, White Sox, Yankees – all potential Bourn suitors.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:51 am
For all those bashing Wren…check out what the Phillies fans and writers are saying about Rubin.
He should be fired. He isn’t the guy to reshape that roster and he’s given out contracts just to keep the run going. Now that it’s over, he needs to go.
I think a more creative GM would have found ways of replacing some of the key personnel that was contracted with for outrageous amounts and long terms.
Amaro and team execs (it’s not just the GM) played for today like Vegas gamblers. Now they’ve come up short and are in a real bind – barring moving more contracts, somehow.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
9:52 am
“Braves, Nationals, Phillies, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, White Sox, Yankees – all potential Bourn suitors.”
Let me narrow the list for you…Nationals, Phillies, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, White Sox, Yankees.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
9:53 am
Efrim – Of that group, the Braves probably have the least $$$…plus,and I repeat myserl, someone WILL overpay…by a lot. I love Bourn, but what else could we do with that money? You got to be smart about it, and I think Wren is very smart.
By the way, Wren bashers…do you really think he makes those big decisions without a lot of input from John Scheurholtz, Bobby cox, and the Braves scouts, coaches and braintrust? The hire of Fredi was likely dictated by JS and Cox.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
9:53 am
Certainly makes them better defensively.
That team is still on pace to score fewer than 700 runs this year. Subtract Laroche’s component, add in Bourn’s (even if he repeats this year instead of returning to his norms), and you’re behind that. You can always make the assumption that Werth might actually contribute next year, I guess, and that Harper will be less feeble. Still, run prevention only takes you so far.
It’s not that Bourn wouldn’t be valuable to any team, not at all. But pricing that value appropriately seems to be out the window.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
9:54 am
He should be fired. He isn’t the guy to reshape that roster and he’s given out contracts just to keep the run going. Now that it’s over, he needs to go.
You posted something similar about John Schuerholz, so at least you are consistent…
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
9:55 am
Braves, Nationals, Phillies, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, White Sox, Yankees – all potential Bourn suitors.
As discussed by others previously, I think the Braves will play early and then drop out of the bidding. I think Bourn’s cost will escalate fairly quickly. And by bidding, the Braves get a draft choice, if I recall.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
9:57 am
Do y’all actually believe that Ruben, Jr. signed those p[layers to those kind of contracts without ownership’s approval?
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
9:58 am
That team is still on pace to score fewer than 700 runs this year.
Much like the Braves last year…. then they said, “we have a full year of Michael Bourn” and look at ‘em now…
cricket
August 8th, 2012
9:58 am
What numbnuts pays $20MM+ for a guy who hit seven dingers in a career year and has a .750 OPS?
my friends DC fans call Rizzo Boras’ bi**h. tho not sure how they will make space for him in OF.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
9:59 am
Do y’all actually believe that Ruben, Jr. signed those p[layers to those kind of contracts without ownership’s approval?
Of course. I read there were many times when he was running through the office building with the check book as the owners tried to stop him, but they just couldn’t catch him…
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
10:02 am
Boras has quite a talent for leveraging his clients to the max. Anyone really think that Boras can’t find a suitor to pay Bourn premium dollars after what should be an excellent 2012 campaign?
Murph
August 8th, 2012
10:03 am
I look forward to our revamped rotation striking Bourn out with regularity next season… whether he’s on the Phillies, the Nats, or whatever… the Braves own him. A career .303 OBP against the Braves.
Him going to another team in the NL East for $15+ million doesn’t worry me in the least.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:04 am
You posted something similar about John Schuerholz, so at least you are consistent…
Huh? When was this?
Lew
August 8th, 2012
10:04 am
The only way they couldn’t have caught him was if they had Howard chasing him.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:05 am
Much like the Braves last year…. then they said, “we have a full year of Michael Bourn” and look at ‘em now…
Sort of my POV on it. I think they’ll be better offensively next year with the addition of Bourn, fullk years of Werth and Ramos. Harper in his 2nd year. Zimmerman was awful for the first two months, IIRC.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:05 am
Him going to another team in the NL East for $15+ million doesn’t worry me in the least.
Well, I agree on that, anyway.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:07 am
Do y’all actually believe that Ruben, Jr. signed those p[layers to those kind of contracts without ownership’s approval?
Sort of like Theo and Crawford. Us fans never hear about what’s really going on between ownership and the front office.
However, his style isn’t one that’d I’d be happy with. Theo? Yes, please.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:10 am
Bourn, Werth, Harper, Zimmerman, Morse, Espinosa, Desmond, Ramos – it’s okay.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:10 am
The worst thing about Bourn moving on will be having to scroll through all the doomsday posts here that such a thing will generate, LOL. Especially if he moves within the division. Braves will immediately be relegated to fourth place by plenty of folks here.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:12 am
Bourn, Werth, Harper, Zimmerman, Morse, Espinosa, Desmond, Ramos – it’s okay.
Plenty of pop but even more outs.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:15 am
Prado, Simmons, Heyward, McCann, Uggla, Freeman, Willingham, and Upton – better than OK.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
10:15 am
Huh? When was this?
Exactly.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
10:15 am
Clint Eastwood plays a Braves scout in new film… “Trouble with the Curve”
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/trouble-with-the-curve/trailers/trouble-with-the-curve-theatrical-trailer-30208761.html
cricket
August 8th, 2012
10:15 am
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/8/7/3226043/houston-astros-bad-play-oh-man-what-is-this-i-dont-even
Thinking about a Braves fan watching that play
I don’t have anything against Braves fans, mind you. But this game mattered. It was a tie game in extra innings. The Braves had already won, and with a Nationals loss, the Braves would have crept to within two games of the NL East lead. There was some serious scoreboard watching going on.
The Astros actually tied the game in the ninth, giving Braves fans a little hope. All they needed was a single, a stolen base, a grounder, and a fly ball. Some permutation of those simple things, maybe with an error mixed in. Bad teams can do those things. They do them all the time. All they needed was just one run.
You can’t laugh at the thought of an Astros fan watching this play. That’s sadistic. They’ve had to watch far too much bad baseball — enough for a decade. But the Braves fan putting his hands atop his head, pushing the baseball cap just a little askew as his or her mouth dropped in amazement … that person is just the best.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
10:17 am
Willingham
Unfortunately that requires running out a rotation excluding Teheran and Delgado because Willingham will require as much in a trade, considering he hasn’t been made available in a trade, is affordable to the Twins, and the Twins have no reason to move him other than a knock-your-socks-off package.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:18 am
“Upton”
Oh boy, hopefully we are talking Justin. What is the love of BJ Upton? Is it because his name is Bossman Jr and we have a bunch of people on here that like Bowser Jr? I mean it can’t be because of his baseball numbers…guy is atrocious.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:20 am
Prado, Simmons, Heyward, McCann, Uggla, Freeman, Willingham, and Upton – better than OK.
Simmons batting 2nd?!?!?1 Say it ain;t so, scoots.
I’m down for Upton in CF. It’s amazing – no one likes ANY CF options that are thrown around. Wren is going to land on one of em. And I sure as hell hope it ain’t Angel Pagan.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
10:21 am
The worst thing about Bourn moving on will be having to scroll through all the doomsday posts
I like the doomsday posts!! You should look at it from a different perspective… It should be a boost to your self confidence to know so many numbtards are out there!
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:21 am
Ya know what’s the best thing about Bourn moving on?
Nah, you all already know what I would say.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
10:22 am
Braves will immediately be relegated to fourth place by plenty of folks here.
fourth place? what is the basis of this optimism?
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:24 am
Prado, Simmons, Heyward, McCann, Uggla, Freeman – I’ll take that. It’s a good position player core.
And, 38 year old Tim Hudson leading the rotation with fireballers nehind him – Paul Maholm, Mike Minor, Kris Medlen…..
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:24 am
Simmons batting 2nd?!?!?1 Say it ain;t so, scoots.
I wasn’t doing a lineup. I don’t do lineup posts, you know that.
What is the love of BJ Upton?
Just using a name for effect. Though I still have a sliver of confidence that BJ might do OK in Atlanta.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
10:25 am
Before wringing our hands about Bourn leaving after the season (very likely), the important question is who would Wren add? And it’s too early to have an answer.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:25 am
Pagan is a better hitter than Upton, that is for sure…
Gotta love Upton’s .650 OPS for the Braves. He’s going to bring back the desire for Nate McLouth or Schafer in CF.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:25 am
Yeesh – Upton isn’t having a good walk year. .242/.300/.377 in a little over 400 PA’s.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:27 am
I hear Upton is a pretty good clubhouse guy. He can have Yunel’s locker back behind the showers and the trash heap….
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:27 am
If Bourn’s gonna be commanding all that money, give it to Zack instead… No way should Bourn get more than 13-15 mil…. BJ Upton, Span, and Victorino should not become Braves and take his place.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:28 am
Mike Minor’s last 11 appearances – 65.2 IP, 49 hits, 23 ER, 25 BB’s, 53 K’s, 10 HR allowed, opp. slash line of .209/.284/.391, 3.15 ERA.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
10:29 am
Need to make a run at our newest nemesis, Houston’s Justin Maxwell.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
10:29 am
scoots – Willingham and Upton? Do you know something we don’t know?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:30 am
Pagan is a better hitter than Upton, that is for sure…
He may have better stats, but that isn’t the same thing.
Who knows? Upton might get a wakeup call this offseason, when teams are decidedly not busting down his door with rich multi-year offers.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:31 am
BJ Upton, Span, and Victorino should not become Braves and take his place.
Pagan, Bourjos, Rasmus, Cain, Fowler, Young, Jay……
I’d say that covers the potential CF options for 2013.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:32 am
Do you know something we don’t know?
No, I’m just trying to create some karma that will prevent me from looking up on Opening Day and seeing Reed Johnson in LF and Angel Pagan in CF.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:32 am
Please note that Minor’s great work the last 11 appearances still has him on pace to give up over 30 HR’s in a 200 IP season……
cricket
August 8th, 2012
10:32 am
Ya know what’s the best thing about Bourn moving on?
Nah, you all already know what I would say.
Heyward increasing his value even more by moving to CF?
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:32 am
I wouldn’t mind Victorino, it probably is just because he kills the Braves, but always liked his defense ability in CF and always hit us well.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:34 am
“Heyward increasing his value even more by moving to CF?”
Nah, probably would just break his body down even faster.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:34 am
Of course, I could bring up the Coco Crisp’s of the world – but how many times has Wren had the opportunity to bring that guy aboard? Never happens. I feel like there is a reason for that….
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
10:35 am
Who are some of the near-ready CF prospects around? Any that Wren could possibly pry free?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
10:35 am
If Bourn’s gonna be commanding all that money, give it to Zack instead…
your posts pine for him but in the heart of your hearts you know he ain’t coming here..
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:35 am
I wouldn’t mind Victorino
Bubba, please.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:38 am
ncscoots – Fine, with our new found love for Heyward in CF, CARLOS BELTRAN!!!!
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:38 am
Jon Jay is a possibility. For anyone who knows who Oscar Taveras is….. Jay is definitely a possibility.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:39 am
In any event, the Braves can’t fill LF, CF, and SP all by trade. Just not enough currency available for that. This offseason, for a change, they have more money than prospects.
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
10:39 am
Victorino is a baseball player….I’d definitely take him over BJ Upton. BJ is prone to thug-like meltdowns. Not an Atlanta fit.
His brother Justin OTOH…I’d take him too.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:39 am
your posts pine for him but in the heart of your hearts you know he ain’t coming here..
I know, but it’s okay to wish and wish, right?
I wouldn’t mind Victorino
Older than Bourn with a declining bat…. no thanks.
Who are some of the near-ready CF prospects around? Any that Wren could possibly pry free?
Cain’s the only one I know of (and he got hurt this year)…. would have to do some research on that…. Who could we get with Hanson, Salcedo for CF….
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:40 am
Who are some of the near-ready CF prospects around? Any that Wren could possibly pry free?
We’d be getting the guy that the near ready prospect would replace, Jeff.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:40 am
I’d like my leadoff guy to steal at least 40 bases. That is the #1 requirement. It gives me something to watch for no matter the score of a game.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:40 am
Fine, with our new found love for Heyward in CF, CARLOS BELTRAN!!!!
When Carlos Beltran sleeps with the fishes (or with Ted Williams’ frozen head, whichever), you’ll STILL be calling for the Braves to sign the guy.
unbelievable
August 8th, 2012
10:42 am
Upton really hasnt been that good since 2008. Isnt he a cancer in the clubhouse also?
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
10:42 am
scoots – Reed Johnson is a 4th outfielder, silly. It will be Prado in LF, and Juan Franscisco at 3B.
Murph
August 8th, 2012
10:43 am
Rasmus…. not gonna get on base much, but I’d be interested to see what Toronto wanted for him.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:43 am
In any event, the Braves can’t fill LF, CF, and SP all by trade. Just not enough currency available for that. This offseason, for a change, they have more money than prospects.
One free agent will be brought in, imo. CF makes some sense for that. Unless of course we anti up for Nick….Swisher….
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:43 am
I would prefer Taveras, but knowing of course that the Cards won’t trade him, Jay is a good bet.
Jay’s Career line: .298/.356/.417/ .773 and good defense in CF.
Jeff R
August 8th, 2012
10:44 am
We’d be getting the guy that the near ready prospect would replace, Jeff.
Makes sense, but what would the other club need? Might be deeper in CF talent in their system. Dunno.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:44 am
“you’ll STILL be calling for the Braves to sign the guy.”
Yep! Got me there.
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
10:45 am
Upton really hasnt been that good since 2008. Isnt he a cancer in the clubhouse also?
He has some kind of agenda. It’s all about him.
He’s just a punk thug.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:45 am
not gonna get on base much, but I’d be interested to see what Toronto wanted for him.
Pitching. They all want that.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:45 am
Unless of course we anti up for Nick….Swisher
Are you guys just intentionally trying to get me off the launch pad this morning?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:46 am
Taveras has 20 HR in AA ball this year, over 105 games…. Oh, how great it’d be to have that bat in ATL.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
10:47 am
Oh geez…buzzwords “punk” and “thug”
This should start a tirade by someone…
It is about as bad as using your closer before the 9th.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:47 am
Free agents: Bourn, BJ Upton, Victorino, Pagan
Trade candidates: Span, Bourjos, Rasmus, Cain, Fowler, Young, Jay
Murph
August 8th, 2012
10:48 am
Gilmartin for Rasmus… done and done.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:48 am
Are you guys just intentionally trying to get me off the launch pad this morning?
That one was for you.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
10:49 am
This should start a tirade by someone…
It’s just Mixxo. Not even worth a rant, let lone a tirade.
JoeFan
August 8th, 2012
10:49 am
Don’t believe Wren is going to spend top dollar for a CF if he believes Cunningham will be ready sometime in 2013 or ‘14. Will certainly be interesting to see how the pieces get moved around in the off season.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:49 am
Gilmartin for Rasmus… done and done.
No way they do that.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:50 am
scoots – Reed Johnson is a 4th outfielder, silly. It will be Prado in LF, and Juan Franscisco at 3B.
Gawd, not Francisco… Reed in LF, Prado at 3B is better
In any event, the Braves can’t fill LF, CF, and SP all by trade…..One free agent will be brought in, imo.
Yeah, Zack… well, you know what I’m gonna say anyway!
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:51 am
Lots of AL teams that need some pitching. Kansas City, Baltimore, Minnesota, Toronto….
They may not want to trade top prospects for that pitching, but I see all four as options for Tommy Hanson. Don’t need to get Dy;an Bundy or Wil Myers back for him. But most of those teams have some currency that would make sense on our side.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
10:52 am
TOBF – Who could we get for Hanson and Salcedo…let’s see…maybe Nate McClouth?
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:52 am
Free agents: Bourn, BJ Upton, Victorino, Pagan
Trade candidates: Span, Bourjos, Rasmus, Cain, Fowler, Young, Jay
Hmm, let me see. Besides Bourn, only guys I really like are Bourjos (defense, don’t give up a lot to get him), Jay, Fowler, and Pagan
cricket
August 8th, 2012
10:54 am
Victorino is a baseball player…
what are others? kabaddi players? (google it)
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
10:55 am
Who could we get for Hanson and Salcedo…let’s see…maybe Nate McClouth?
LOL, I’m sure we can get more than that….
BTW, who wants Melky for CF? He’s slimmed down, is faster now
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
10:55 am
Don’t believe Wren is going to spend top dollar for a CF if he believes Cunningham will be ready sometime in 2013 or ‘14
Yup. Todd Cunningham in CF, Joe Terdoslavich at 3B and Evan Gattis in LF. Awesome.
Fish Bisch
August 8th, 2012
10:55 am
Trade Heyward for Giancarlo Stanton.
Murph
August 8th, 2012
10:56 am
Gilmartin for Rasmus… done and done.
No way they do that.
Either way, the Braves win!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
10:56 am
Are you guys just intentionally trying to get me off the launch pad this morning?
After Payne’s failed attempts yesterday? Yes. But then, is it Payne’s fault he has no new material?
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
10:57 am
wow….another clever reply from scooty…..imagine that!
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
10:57 am
Who are some of the near-ready CF prospects around? Any that Wren could possibly pry free?
Seriously, why not see if we can pry Maxwell away from Houston? He’s young, cost-controlled, a good defensive CF (according to limited data available… he hasn’t played a lot, but has been outstanding in CF when he’s been there, and played a lot there in the minors).
Strikes out a ton (an understatement, actually), but what else is new? Does know how to take a walk, and has some pop.
I don’t know if Houston would trade him, but given that he’s barely cracked their lineup most of the year, got to figure he could be had for less than a king’s ransom.
This kind of acquisition would leave money to fill bigger needs.
Mixxo
August 8th, 2012
10:59 am
Strikeout “hitters” usually have a lot of pop.
Sign Maxwell.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:01 am
Either way, the Braves win!
I’d trade Gilmartin for Rasmus….
Of course, that’s not saying much from me.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:02 am
Yup. Todd Cunningham in CF, Joe Terdoslavich at 3B and Evan Gattis in LF. Awesome
World Series Caliber! I love it!
Lew
August 8th, 2012
11:02 am
raleighbraves – Francio at 3B? Don’t slip on all the foam flying from some mouths around here.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:04 am
Francio at 3B? Don’t slip on all the foam flying from some mouths around here.
Francisco can play 3B for the Cardinals, we’ll send Hanson as well and get Jon Jay
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:06 am
Don’t believe Wren is going to spend top dollar for a CF if he believes Cunningham will be ready sometime in 2013 or ‘14
I doubt Wren is going to put in his dollars in CF, anyway. That’s the lowest of the three priorities.
The A Bomb
August 8th, 2012
11:06 am
Lost in the Bourn to the Nats talk is HOW GOOD Bernadina is playing — regardless of Rizzo’s bromance with Boras. And Benardina makes a helluva lot less. Don’t be so quick on Bourn to the Nats….and Bourn would not make them that much better. Bernardina can pick it.
Bourn to the Giants makes much more sense for the player — offensively AND defensively.
Dodgers? Huh? Where?
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:06 am
Mike – Astros are the worst team in MLB…by a good margin…and you want to trade to get a guy who is having trouble cracking their lineup? Doesn’t seem to be a winning strategy, but maybe it’s just me.
Juan
August 8th, 2012
11:09 am
With 109 So and 343 OBP…no way i paid 16-20 Mil to Bourn…..Prado,Chipper,Reed all has better OBP than Bourn.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:09 am
Lew – Well, I DID put a
on it!
Seriously, as you have pointed out, the Braves think more of his upside than most fans do. Not advocating for him, just stating fact.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:10 am
I doubt Wren is going to put in his dollars in CF, anyway. That’s the lowest of the three priorities.
So you’re not okay with Hudson, Minor, Maholm. Medlen and Gilmartin?
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
11:13 am
Raleigh, if he can play good CF, which it appears he can, and post a .320 OBP and hit 20 HR, which it appears he can, I’d be happy to stick him 8th in the lineup, for $550K per year for next season.
Anyway, I’m not pining away for him in particular … but if we could find someone like that, and leave plenty of cash to fill LF/3B/SP, I’d be just fine with it.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:14 am
Realistically, Bourn is gone, but we will make a qualifying offer…IF he were to accept, which WILL NOT HAPPEN, great. If not, we get a pretty good draft pick. Let the moaning begin right now about how we will use that pick.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
11:14 am
raleighbraves – Well, I’d like to see David Wright at 3B and Martin in LF but that’s never happening. Still – I’d rathr have Francisco at 3B than BJ Freaking Upton in CF.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:15 am
So you’re not okay with
No. They’re a pitcher short at the top. Maybe Sheets goes 12-1 and an MRI shows he now has the shoulder of a 25-year-old, and they sign him, LOL. Don’t know. But they have to be more studly at the top of the rotation. I don’t even mind that they keep Hanson, if they can reasonably slot him at 3 or 4, but I no longer think he’s the guy you need for your second starter.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:18 am
I don’t even mind that they keep Hanson, if they can reasonably slot him at 3 or 4, but I no longer think he’s the guy you need for your second starter.
Yeah, I haven’t really thought of keeping Hanson AND adding a guy like James Shields.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:19 am
Mike – If he can do all those things, I would probably agree. What evidence do we have that he actually can do all that at the Major league level? Just asking, cause I don’t know.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:19 am
Shields and Willingham
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:20 am
Let the moaning begin right now about how we will use that pick.
They picked Minor again over Trout? Dang…
I’d rathr have Francisco at 3B than BJ Freaking Upton in CF.
Don’t know if I should say this, but I agree.
So you’re not okay with
No. They’re a pitcher short at the top.
We all know who that pitcher they need at the top is…
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:21 am
Yeah, I haven’t really thought of keeping Hanson AND adding a guy like James Shields.
It might come down to deciding between three years of Hanson or six years of Delgado/Teheran. That’s not a no-brainer, either way.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:22 am
Lew @ 11:14 – Agree completely. Depending on what else Wren is able to do, Francisco may actually be an option that isn’t terriblw…especially if he increases his OBP, which he may if playing regularly, and with coaching and maturity.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
11:23 am
What evidence do we have that he actually can do all that at the Major league level? Just asking, cause I don’t know.
Fangraphs rates him as the 3rd best defensive CF in baseball among guys with at least 200 innings there.
Batting line this year: .246/.321/.487 with 12 HR in 218 plate appearances… actually works out to about 30 HR. And an above league-average walk rate. But, he does strike out a lot. I mean, a lot.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:23 am
Lots of #3 ceilings and present #4/5’s. Makes too much sense for Wren to go out and pair Huddy with at least a #2.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:24 am
has Dempster signed extension yet?
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:25 am
It might come down to deciding between three years of Hanson or six years of Delgado/Teheran. That’s not a no-brainer, either way.
Good point. That is not easy to make that decision, but Hanson’s shoulder and decrease in velo makes it a tad easier…
3 spots seem reasonably taken care of with Hudson up front and Minor/Maholm filling middle-back.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:27 am
And they should really keep one of Delgado or Teheran, imo. Do not trade both.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:27 am
TOBF – Several teams regret passing over Trout…Drafting is not an exact science…in fact…not even close. You play the odds, based on what a kid is doing, and what you guess his potential is. How many teams passed on Beachy, more than once? How many were upset when we had to take Chipper instead of Van Popple?
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:28 am
Lots of #3 ceilings and present #4/5’s.
Hudson, A Guy, Hanson, Minor, and Maholm. That’s not brutal. Swapping out Hanson for Teheran, say, looks a little weaker at the moment, but might end up being stronger. Don’t know. Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:29 am
TOBF – “We all know who that pitcher is” ..Uh, King Felix?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:29 am
Collins said he’s going to have a talk with Bay about his use going forward, meaning he is now a matchup player. No longer the everyday LF.
— David Lennon (@DPLennon) August 7, 2012
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:30 am
TOBF – “We all know who that pitcher is” ..Uh, King Felix?
Umm no…. Emperor Zack.
BravesFanInMaine
August 8th, 2012
11:31 am
I think bourn resigns with the braves…. I just have that feeling!!
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:32 am
cricket – “has Dempster signed an extension yet?” Who cares?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:33 am
only if feelings could pay bills..
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:35 am
Hudson, A Guy, Hanson, Minor, and Maholm. That’s not brutal. Swapping out Hanson for Teheran, say, looks a little weaker at the moment, but might end up being stronger. Don’t know. Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
How about swapping out Hanson for Medlen while Teheran and Gilmartin pitch in Gwinnett? I guess the question being, is Frank Wren comfortable putting Teheran back at Gwinnett in April of 2013 for a third straight year? I suppose he has no choice if Julio isn’t showing him he is ready to fill the #5 spot. Wren is going to have to deal Delgado or Teheran this offseason, I think. I’d be near shocked if both pitcher were with this organization next Spring.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:35 am
Seriously, I probably wouldn’t pay what Grienke will be asking, but I probably would consider giving up a lot to Mariners for Felix.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:36 am
Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
Sheets. 1 year with a player option. $27M for the first year, $5M buyout. Option year will pay league minimum. Ha!
Lew
August 8th, 2012
11:37 am
Emporer Grienke? Calligugrienke?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:38 am
raleighbravefan – are you saying you don’t want Dempster?
i was just messing around
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:39 am
Shields is A Guy
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:39 am
How about swapping out Hanson for Medlen while Teheran and Gilmartin pitch in Gwinnett?
If they’re comfortable with the third starter being a guy who has never started for a full season, sure. Or having Minor at 3, I guess. Either one.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
but I probably would consider giving up a lot to Mariners for Felix.
I don’t know that the Braves have enough minors depth to withstand the pillaging such a trade would require.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
is Frank Wren comfortable putting Teheran back at Gwinnett in April of 2013 for a third straight year? I suppose he has no choice if Julio isn’t showing him he is ready to fill the #5 spot.
This is a question only a prospect hugger would ask. Teheran has to make the team want him in the majors via his performance. The team can’t just promote a guy to “protect his value.” He’d be in the majors getting shelled. He’d lose value either way.
I’d be near shocked if both pitcher were with this organization next Spring.
I wouldn’t. Like I’m skeptical Wren will make the qualoffer, I’m skeptical Wren will swing a deal for the type of pitcher we hope to see. I see it going down much like the off-season which netted Kawakami and Lowe… and to think, Dempster was involved in that off-season as well. I recall Cox saying he really liked him and would love to have him, and then he re-upped with the Cubs. Then the Peavy trade fell through. Then AJ Burnett went to the Yanks, then Wren shelled out a ton of cash for Lowe and Kawakami. Gotta think he won’t do that again, which means, after failed trades, no free agent signing, one of Teheran/Delgado is in the rotation, the other in the bullpen/minors.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
forget missing out on Trout. how about missing out on Josh Rutledge?
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:42 am
If they’re comfortable with the third starter being a guy who has never started for a full season, sure. Or having Minor at 3, I guess. Either one.
Braves entered this year with Minor and Delgado in the rotation. The front office comfort level is pretty low.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:44 am
I suspect Josh Rutledge moves to 2B next year. Tulo seems to have SS locked up for some time now and the Rockies could use a 2B.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:44 am
Braves entered this year with Minor and Delgado in the rotation.
…with Hudson on the shelf. I don’t think Plan A was to start two rookies for 70 starts.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:46 am
wipe out minors depth for Felix and pay him 40mil for 2 years? not happening.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:47 am
Josh Rutledge for Uggla trade suggestions start here in…
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:48 am
with Hudson on the shelf. I don’t think Plan A was to start two rookies for 70 starts.
Ah, but they did. And the premise would result in only 1 guy being the “rookie” or guy who has never started for a full season.
Hudson, [Acquired guy traded or signed], Minor, Maholm, Meds.
monty
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
If Meds continues to pitch admirably but gets no love as far as a starting spot next season ot gets booted back to the pen, then it really is about his height, or his upsize.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
I don’t know that the Braves have enough minors depth to withstand the pillaging such a trade would require.
wipe out minors depth for Felix and pay him 40mil for 2 years? not happening.
All Greinke requires is that same price 20mil over 5/6 years…. no pillaging of the farm.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
Ah, but they did.
Should read “Ah, but they did it anyway.” Not imply that was the plan for the year… just that it ended up that way and it would presumably be less likely next year that two guys would be in the rotation with that resume.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:51 am
Hudson, [Acquired guy traded or signed], Minor, Maholm, Meds.
You’re right, that would show a pretty low comfort level in the FO.
Oh well, Beachy gets back after the All-Star break, maybe, LOL.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:51 am
King Felix – finally a pitcher that makes look Greinke affordable to braves
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:53 am
Sheeesh the Rockies are bad. They’ve had only 2 winning streaks this year. Only twice have they won 3 games or more in a row. Once it was 3 games in a row. The next it was 5 games (including a double header sweep of the Astros)
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:54 am
You’re right, that would show a pretty low comfort level in the FO.
Guess it all depends on who “acquired guy” turns out to be…
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:56 am
And with that comment, I’m reading you would be more comfortable with Hanson over Meds? The upside might appear better, but the production trend…
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:57 am
wow
This isn’t the first time Jim Tracy’s front-office bosses have tried to reinvent baseball. So excuse the Colorado Rockies manager if he isn’t in mutiny mode just because he must pull his starters after only 75 pitches and the first reliever he summons is called a “piggyback” and the entire cockamamie plan was dubbed Project 5,183 because that’s the altitude at Coors Field.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockies–pitching-strategy-is-historically-wacky–and-not-working-.html
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:58 am
And with that comment, I’m reading you would be more comfortable with Hanson over Meds?
Probably, but not so much that I’d stamp my foot at the other way, if that’s the way it went.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:00 pm
Gotta think he won’t do that again, which means, after failed trades, no free agent signing, one of Teheran/Delgado is in the rotation, the other in the bullpen/minors.
I have to have more faith than that.
I guess we just have to wait until the end of the season for the qualifying offer decision and Heyward’s permanant 2012 slash line for TenneseePaul to be happy.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:01 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson. What the hell is going on around here?
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
12:01 pm
I don’t think Sheets is totally out of the picture, depending on rest of 2012 performance, and 2013 price.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
Over Hanson’s last 27 starts, (July 16, 2011 through July 30, 2012) he’s allowed opponents to hit .276/.350/.478/.828 with 62 XBH including 27 HR. He’s pitched to a 4.95 ERA and averaged 5.2 innings per start over 152 innings. Not exactly a high bar of production he’s been providing.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
The Rockies are a complete mess. They needed to clean house and all they did was re-organize stuff.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson.
shorties rule !!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:04 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson.
He’s actually taller than Hanson too, but that’s all part of his illusion.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:04 pm
Not exactly a high bar of production he’s been providing.
And he’d still be either the #1 or #2 starter on some of those scrub AL teams that I mentioned earlier. If the shoulder passes exams, he’d still fetch a decent prospect package or a trade around a CF.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:05 pm
That’s a WHIP of 1.5 for Hanson over his last 27 starts.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:05 pm
Over Hanson’s last 27 starts, (July 16, 2011 through July 30, 2012)
What’s the line of Polished over that time? I think it’s better, but I’d be curious to see the slash line of Minor in that time period and especially his oppo SLG.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
12:06 pm
Efrim – Shoulder injuries are toxic, especially for pitchers.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:08 pm
And I usually never want to sell low on players, but I just think trading Hanson makes sense. Maybe with the prospects we acquire from a team, it’ll either a) make it easier to part with others in our system, or b) use the prospects acquired + some others and flip em to another team for a starter.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:12 pm
Max (OR): Do you have a report on anyone in the minors with better pure velo than Bruce Rondon?
J.J. Cooper: Not in the minors. Have heard reports of him touching 102 and 103 this year.
Anyone see this kid at the Futures Game? RH Aroldis Chapman with that heater. Disgusting.
monty
August 8th, 2012
12:13 pm
If I was Hanson, I’d say, “I felt great” too! Then hope and pray I could deliver when I got the chance again. Maybe getting close to pitching for his professional life. ala, JJ.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
12:14 pm
I just don’t see the return on Hanson being all that high/
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:18 pm
I just don’t see the return on Hanson being all that high/
I don’t either…. he’s damaged goods.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:18 pm
Polished in that time has started 30 games, pitched 173 innings, averaged 5.2 IP a start, allowed an opp line of .258/.321/.459/.780 with 70 XBH including 30 HR. Pitched to a 4.68 ERA with a 1.324 WHIP.
JoeFan
August 8th, 2012
12:24 pm
Don’t believe the Braves will drop big money to sign Bourn. If they believe Cunningham will be ready to play CF by 2014, they will move Heyward to CF and go with Reed Johnson in RF. They then can leave Prado in LF and go with Francisco at 3B. Hopefully they will use some of this excess cash to beef up the rotation. However, as crasy as it may seem, the Braves can hold onto the cash and keep filling the rotation with prospects.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:24 pm
Baseball America just came out with there 2012 Minor League Best Tools list….it’s subscriber, but I’ll list the Braves stuff. Here were the categories:
Best Hitting Prospect, Best Power Prospect, Best Strike-Zone Judgement, Fastest Baserunner, Best Baserunner, Best Pitching Prospect, Best Fastball, Best Breaking Pitch, Best Changeup, Best Control, Best Reliever, Best Defender at all positions, Best Infield Arm, Best Outfield Arm, Most Exciting Player
INTERNATIONAL LEAGUE
Best Power Prospect – Ernesto Meija
Fastest Baserunner – Luis Durango
Best Baserunner – Luis Durango
SOUTHERN LEAGUE
Best Control – Sean Gilmartin
Best Defensive C – Christian Bethancourt
Best Defensive 3B – Joe Leonard
CAROLINA LEAGUE
Fastest Baserunner – Nick Ahmed
Best Defensive SS – Nick Ahmed
SOUTH ATLANTIC LEAGUE
Best Defensive C – Cory Brownstein
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:26 pm
Polished in that time has started 30 games, pitched 173 innings, averaged 5.2 IP a start, allowed an opp line of .258/.321/.459/.780 with 70 XBH including 30 HR. Pitched to a 4.68 ERA with a 1.324 WHIP.
.459 SLG, 70 XBH, 30 HR. Yikes. 4.68 ERA doesn’t even seem that bad given how many gappers and bombs he’s letting up.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:28 pm
eddymk #Braves release ’09 11th-round LHP Chris Masters, who put up 5.40 ERA following demotion to High-A.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:29 pm
Minor’s been outperforming Hanson… (ERA, WHIP, slash lines)…. Hanson ain’t all that young anymore, so not seeing why teams would be lining up to grab him, esp. with him being arb. eligible.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:30 pm
Makes me sick that we don’t have a single guy on this list….
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=4&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=3,d
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:32 pm
Hanson ain’t all that young anymore, so not seeing why teams would be lining up to grab him, esp. with him being arb. eligible.
Have folks seen some of the rotations that are around the bigs? It’s really bad, and some of these teams actually want to win next year. I can’t imagine why Baltimore and Kansas City wouldn’t want a controllable pitcher like Hanson. Like I said, Dyland Bundy, Manny Machado, Wil Myers, Bubba Starling aren’t necessary to be included in a trade.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:33 pm
Efrim: Maholm is 6th from the bottom on FBv
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:34 pm
CAROLINA LEAGUE
Tough Call: Dylan Bundy hasn’t mowed down hitters quite as regularly in the Carolina League, but he beat out a tough challenge from Yordano Ventura and J.R. Graham to earn the league’s Best Pitching Prospect.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:36 pm
Greinke is on that list… FBv of 92.5, throwing 52% fastballs. He comes before King Felix who has a FBv 91.9 and 58% of pitches thrown are fastballs.
tony austin
August 8th, 2012
12:36 pm
There’s no way I would pillage the farm for one player, not after the Tex trade. Not that I disagree with that trade, but that’s all we would read about here for years to come if the traded player doesn’t bring 5 consecutive WS to Atl.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
12:37 pm
Efrim you have to go all the way to page 3 before you find a Brave… That is pretty sad.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:38 pm
Medlen – 90.8, Minor – 90.3, Sheets – 90.3, Hanson – 89.8, Hudson – 88.9, Maholm – 87.6
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:40 pm
Mike Minor is the first Braves on the list: 59.6 % pitches are fastballs FBv of 90.3.
Hanson is the 2nd Braves pitcher: 54.8 % fastballs, FBv of 89.8
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:41 pm
Delgado was 92.0.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
Teheran was 92.2 in his one start.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
Makes me sick that we don’t have a single guy on this list….
One reason you don’t trade Randall Delgado or Teheran. Neither would top the list, but at least they’d be on it.
Honestly, I think you guys are a little too obsessed with revamping the staff. I think that since June 1, Braves have one of the top 2 or 3 ERA’s in the league.
I would jettison Hanson. And I hope (and expect) that Sheets is an option next year.
Between Sheets, Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, and (later) Beachy, I think we can cobble together a very competitive rotation. And of course, can always do something at the deadline next year if needed.
Delgado’s FIP (with apologies) has been solid in June and July. And it’s well documented the progress Minor is making. I really hope we didn’t spend all these years developing these guys just to trade them when they’re ready to contribute.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
And what do you “need” in the playoffs? Power pitchers. The only one we have is Sheets.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:44 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/27764/ranking-the-center-fielders-trout-no-1
There ya go.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
12:45 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:50 pm
Between Sheets, Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, and (later) Beachy, I think we can cobble together a very competitive rotation. And of course, can always do something at the deadline next year if needed.
Remove Sheets and Beachy(not a factor until August at the earliest). If you’re comfortable with Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, then that’s okay, but they need one more guy up front, imo.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
they need one more guy up front, imo.
His name is Zack….
Hmm, are there any good young SP that could be traded? Or maybe Teheran breaks out next year and is our “ace”.
tony austin
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects. – MFin04
That’s a joke, right?
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
This off season? Are you nuts? Maybe after a couple more seasons when his price gets to high.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:55 pm
Remove Sheets …
So you’re of the frame of mind that says, “not one of our young guys, and certainly not Ben Sheets”? You keep dismissing him out-right. Personally I don’t know what to think of him. A 1 year deal I wouldn’t have a problem with him. I’d rather have some one bigger, but have my doubts that will happen.
ACE
August 8th, 2012
12:55 pm
At a recent state of the braves reception for season ticket holders, FW said resigning Bourn was the teams Number one priority.
unbelievable
August 8th, 2012
12:57 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
Under team control and doesnt cost much at this point. He’s not getting moved.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:58 pm
So you’re of the frame of mind that says, “not one of our young guys, and certainly not Ben Sheets”? You keep dismissing him out-right. Personally I don’t know what to think of him. A 1 year deal I wouldn’t have a problem with him. I’d rather have some one bigger, but have my doubts that will happen.
Let’s just wait until the end of the season. Maybe he does come back on a one year deal. But his injury history didn’t just vanish. I guess my point on all of this stuff is that we need a top of the rotation guy to pair with Hudson, and guess what, we need someone in 2014 when Hudson and Maholm aren’t under contract. We’re delaying the inevitable. Gotta get someone to lead the rotation.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
1:00 pm
When I think about Kimbrel getting traded all I can think about is those years between Smoltz and Wagner…. (Kolb, Reitsma, Wickman, Mike Gonzo)
He can’t become a FA until 2017 so I say lets keep him as long as we can possibly afford him!!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:00 pm
Well Ef, we’ve seen the 5-starts from him that we wanted from Jurrjens. I know his injury history didn’t just vanish, but so far so good. I’ve been pleased with what I see. I’m not saying make him a long term option or a major off-season move. But if he is brought back for a year, I’m not going to complain.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
1:02 pm
and guess what, we need someone in 2014 when Hudson and Maholm aren’t under contract. We’re delaying the inevitable. Gotta get someone to lead the rotation.
That’s why I think they’ll get someone this offseason.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:03 pm
Really hoping Chipper can end his career with at least 470 HR, 550 2B and 1500 BB. He’s 6 away from the HR and 2B mark and 14 away from the walks. Pretty sure he’ll hit the walks and doubles, the homers though… I was initially hoping he’d be at 475, but that looks a bit long now. Who knows, maybe he goes on a tear and just dominates down the stretch.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
If Chipper threw his averages into the wind and hung around, he’d reach 3,000 hits and 500 HR. He just wouldn’t get there with the 300/400/500 line he has now. And I’m glad he’s going to go out with that. He’s going out right. He’s OPS+ over his career norm so far. He has raise his average in his final season. It’s just good stuff all around.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
But if he is brought back for a year, I’m not going to complain.
I won’t either, but it can’t just be all that is done with the rotation. As I said, you’re just delaying the inevitable and while I understand that it’s sort of the name of the game for professional sports(delaying to fill the need), it doesn’t mean that we should settle for less.
phil
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
Game over before it even really gets going.
And what the heck was Mac doing trying to stretch that double into a double last night? He’s slower than a dead turtle. It was embarassing to behold.
Now 4 games out. Time’s beginning to slip away….
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:07 pm
Those lost numbers can be chalked up to his injuries. He’d easily have surpassed 3000/500 had he not missed his 1994 season and had fewer injuries late in his career.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:11 pm
Oh, and how good has Bourn been in 2012? FanGraphs assesses his WAR (wins above a garden-variety replacement player) value as 4.6 games. Among non-pitchers, that’s the 14th-best in baseball. Jason Heyward is 15th, Martin Prado 26th. Be a shame to break up that outfield. – Mark Bradley
Why is Heyward on that list? He’s had one great month and a whole lot of average. What a stupid stat that WAR is…….
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:12 pm
Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
Haven’t we destroyed Dickey and Strasburg this year?
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:13 pm
but it can’t just be all that is done with the rotation
If that is all that is done, there are other issues. That would be a result of not out bidding other teams for players in trades or FA. And sometimes that is out of the GM’s hands.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
1:13 pm
This Winter should be very interesting. Can we get an ace? Resign Bourn. Who replaces Bourn. If we do both, do you start Reed Johnson, or Franscisco as a regular? You’ve got to rebuils the bench. What do you do with Hanson, and with EOF? I’m assuming we non-tender JJ. Should be exciting.
This will be Wren’s “signature” off season.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:15 pm
What a stupid stat that WAR is
Based on a player performing on a .333 winning percentage team. I have issues with WAR. every iteration of it. It has it’s pluses, I acknowledge, but it isn’t high on my list for many reasons.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:15 pm
This will be Wren’s “signature” off season.
Agreed.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
1:16 pm
Among non-pitchers, that’s the 14th-best in baseball. Jason Heyward is 15th, Martin Prado 26th. Be a shame to break up that outfield
Nah, let him go, take the pick, and add the 13th-best WAR player in bb, Chase Headley!!!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:16 pm
Haven’t we destroyed Dickey and Strasburg this year?
Beat the snot out of Halladay as well. 8 runs in 5.1 innings..
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:17 pm
It has it’s pluses, I acknowledge, but it isn’t high on my list for many reasons.
It’s not the first or second thing I look at. It has it’s pluses, as you say. Just like other stats aren’t the end all be all. Looking at everything is the best way to go about it, imo.
Shaun
August 8th, 2012
1:18 pm
Maybe this is ground you covered this afternoon, Shaun, but how do you pick an MVP when the award is open to pitchers and hitter? When fielding comes into play to (or should). How do you objectively compare a pitcher’s contributions versus a hitter’s? Apples and oranges and scads of variables in-between.
Jeff R, just saw this from yesterday. There are ways to measure both a pitcher and a position player’s contributions (fielding, hitting and baserunning) and convert them into runs created and prevented and, in turn, wins. Comparing one player’s contributions in terms of runs and wins is not apples to oranges. It’s runs to runs or wins to wins.
The tricky part is when two or more players are close in terms of what they contributed equaling about the same number of runs or wins. But there certainly are ways to break down contributions of players, even players that play drastically different positions, in to how those contributions relate to scoring and preventing runs. And whether a player is a pitcher or a hitter, the game is about contributing in terms of creating and preventing runs. So if you can break it down to that level (and we absolutely can at least come reasonably close), it’s not apples to oranges at all.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:20 pm
Nah, let him go, take the pick,
It’s not just “let him go, take the pick”. It’s let him go, take the pick and keep yourself from handing out one of the silliest contracts of the last few winters.
And, we have a flat, 90 million dollar payroll. So let’s not compound the awful nature of a Bourn long term deal with the fact that it would be extra hurtful for us, than say the Phillies, Giants or Yankees.
Patrick
August 8th, 2012
1:21 pm
Here’s a legitimate question.
If anyone has read Bradley’s newest article about the fact that Bourn could end up in Washington or Philly if the Braves don’t re-sign him.
My question is: would you trade McCann to be able to free up the money to re-sign Bourn?
Now, we all know that the Braves are too damn cheap-even with all the money coming off the books after this season-to re-sign Bourn and make their other moves.
So, if McCann continues to finish the season with a flurry, he could bring a lot back in a trade. Also, that would free up room for the Braves to re-sign Bourn and an ace and some smaller parts (bench players, bullpen pieces, etc…)
If it were me, I would do it. McCann has started to show that he’s slipping, he’d be a perfect fit in the AL where he can DH. He’d re-stock a farm system that is not a top tier as is used to be with promotions and Wren trading one of our best propects for 2 role players. And he’d free up even more payroll. It seems like a win scenario for the Braves.
It will be very unpopular, but they’d be ahead of the curve and I think it’d really help them.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
August 8th, 2012
1:25 pm
phil Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL201205020.shtml
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:27 pm
Looking at everything is the best way to go about it, imo.
I generally don’t even look at WAR. Everything else though is interesting. Last year, for instance, Sean Smith’s analysis puts Freeman’s rookie season as a bench player. This year he is still a bench player level player, maybe a starter. By this measure, there are only 8 players at 1st base in the majors who should be starting. The rest are bench players or QuadA players. The calculation needs some work…
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:30 pm
The calculation needs some work…
Agreed. It’s not fair to 1B, and some other positions are given too much value. However, I sure like it for Jason…. hah!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:30 pm
Or, if Freeman isn’t to one’s liking, Konerko has essentially put together a career of a bench player.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:30 pm
would you trade McCann to be able to free up the money to re-sign Bourn?
Absolutely not.
Kat
August 8th, 2012
1:32 pm
About 30 ft from Eli Manning right now. One perk of living 3mins from training camp.
Three Strikes They Are Out
August 8th, 2012
1:32 pm
Of all the pitchers currently under Braves control, there are 3 that I feel are not worth protecting. What that says is I see current or future positive performance for the rest who are not one of those three.
JJ- that was a no brainer wasn’t it?
Hanson- He is falling off a cliff. His mechanics alone are enough to guarantee future injury, ineffectiveness and justification for sending him on his way. Who thought drafting someone who throws like that a good idea?
Gearrin- With his 1point whatever era is a wreck waiting to happen. He has no clue where the ball is going out of his hand. Half his pitches are frisbees. The reason his ERA is so low because people bail him out. Sunday, he came in threw to one hitter and gave up a rocket hit. Venters bailed him out. Last night, pitched to one hitter, who drove the ball to the wall. This guy ain’t Moylan. He’s doesn’t resemble any effective sidearmer I know. I cringed when Freddie brought him in Sunday with a one run lead.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:32 pm
I guess the thing I’ve hated is just looking at a players slash line and determining just from that the player is equal or more valuable than the other player. Position matters. Baserunning matters. Defense matters. All that sh!t is important and it’s ridiculous to never include in discussion on the value of a player.
Shaun
August 8th, 2012
1:33 pm
Check out the newest Baseball Prospectus Baseball Between the Numbers book, Extra Innings. Steve Goldman does an excellent job in the introduction tearing down the criticisms of WAR or WARP that many here love to bring up.
Basically he explains why replacement level isn’t imaginary and that that level has been more or less consistent throughout the history of the game.
He also explains we need some starting point (replacement level) because in a vacuum we would have no idea how good a player is. A player who hits .300/.400/.500 seems like a pretty good player but how do we know unless we have some perspective, some basis? What if the league hit .280/.350/.480? That player doesn’t look like such a great hitter any more.
I would like to see some of those who criticize WAR tell us how they are going to measure a player’s value in a vacuum, without any knowledge of the minimal level of performance that is easily available.
In a vacuum, I may look like I can play centerfield in the majors because I’m better than putting nothing out in centerfield. But if you start from what is essentially 0 at the major league level (a player that can be had for minimal resources and plugged in to center) and it’s clear I would cost a team a ton. It’s a concept that makes plenty of sense if you aren’t threatened by it and don’t view it as something the other, the people who are different from you came up with.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:36 pm
I guess the thing I’ve hated is just looking at a players slash line and determining just from that the player is equal or more valuable than the other player. Position matters.
I get that. But then isn’t it obvious in the discussion? If you are comparing a Catcher to a center fielder, the only thing you can really compare is the slash line. The defense is very different, and the tools needed for that defense are very different. You don’t need to be fast on the feet to be an excellent defensive catcher. You do if you are to be an excellent defensive CF.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
1:37 pm
would you trade McCann to be able to free up the money to re-sign Bourn?
No. I don’t want to anger McFann… Also don’t think Bourn is worth 14+ mil a year.
unbelievable
August 8th, 2012
1:39 pm
I guess the thing I’ve hated is just looking at a players slash line and determining just from that the player is equal or more valuable than the other player. Position matters. Baserunning matters. Defense matters. All that sh!t is important and it’s ridiculous to never include in discussion on the value of a player.
I agree, so what about fWAR. You might get shot here mentioning such a stat.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
1:39 pm
Who thought drafting someone who throws like that a good idea?
I don’t see a very bright future for Hanson, but I guess I’d be okay with all of our 22nd round picks providing the production he has.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:40 pm
In a vacuum, I may look like I can play centerfield in the majors
Don’t kid yourself Payne.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:45 pm
tell us how they are going to measure a player’s value in a vacuum
I suppose the problem here is, even when I speak baseball with Lew (not picking on you Lew, just know you are the bain of Payne’s pain), I know Lew is not speaking about a player “in a vacuum.” Baseball is a conversation and that conversation has context. That context need not be stated explicitly in every breath. It’s context for a reason.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
1:50 pm
Shaun – In a vacuum you look obsessive and arrogant…wait…bad example.
tony austin
August 8th, 2012
1:54 pm
The Braves have allowed 107 HR. Minor and Hanson are responsible for 42 (23,19 respectively). The rest of the team has allowed 65, which would be the fewest allowed followed by the Dodgers 82.
This is probably a useless stat in and of itself, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
1:54 pm
10Paul – But Shaun sees everyone as if in a vacuum…don’t you know that there is no such thing a “clutch”, or performing at different levels in different situations, or on and on and on.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:54 pm
Shaun, can you explain to me why Darwin Barney is one of the most valuable players in the sport according to WAR?
Three Strikes They Are Out
August 8th, 2012
1:55 pm
“I would like to see some of those who criticize WAR tell us how they are going to measure a player’s value in a vacuum, without any knowledge of the minimal level of performance that is easily available.”
Gee I don’t know, maybe watch him play! Be knowledgeable about others who play big league baseball! Ya know, the kind of things scouts and GM’s do and know? These types were evaluating talent long before WAR and the 2000 other new numerical methods that some use to evaluate talent existed.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
1:57 pm
tony – Not sure what you are saying…is it that if Minor and Hanson had not pitched, that we would have only given up 65…therefore assumiong that whoever pitched in their place would give up none? Why aren’t we starting those 2 guys?
phil
August 8th, 2012
1:59 pm
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:12 pm
Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
Haven’t we destroyed Dickey and Strasburg this year?
****************
Well…..okay. Dang facts.
Shaun
August 8th, 2012
2:00 pm
I generally don’t even look at WAR. Everything else though is interesting. Last year, for instance, Sean Smith’s analysis puts Freeman’s rookie season as a bench player. This year he is still a bench player level player, maybe a starter. By this measure, there are only 8 players at 1st base in the majors who should be starting. The rest are bench players or QuadA players. The calculation needs some work…
Most calculations of WAR or WARP or similar metrics last season had Freeman within the top 30 among firstbaseman. How is that putting him as a bench player?
WAR takes replacement-level as the baseline, the jumping-off point. It doesn’t really address whether a player should be a starter or a bench player. It simply address his value above a replacement-level or a fringe-type player.
I think the problem some may have is they tend to overrate how much impact or value one player can possibly have. In all honestly, relatively speaking, there aren’t all that many players that are more than a few wins above replacement level. A player that is a win or two above replacement level is a very good player. So when some folks see that a player is only a win or two above replacement and that player seems like a good player, they view it as a travesty. In all honestly, that’s pretty good.
Three Strikes They Are Out
August 8th, 2012
2:00 pm
“I would like to see some of those who criticize WAR tell us how they are going to measure a player’s value in a vacuum”
I didn’t realize that it was normal to take on the task of ranking a player’s worth in a vacuum. If you, or me, or any fan lives in a baseball vacuum when it comes to rating talent, then we should not be rating talent.
Carroll Rogers
August 8th, 2012
2:00 pm
new blog is up!
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/08/08/nats-not-giving-up-any-ground-in-nl-east/
Threadkiller
August 8th, 2012
2:01 pm
3K’s..Good one! Made me laugh out loud! That is a very true post..Thanks
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
2:02 pm
Most HR allowed on the road: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/34/league/nl/sort/homeRuns/type/expanded/order/true
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
2:02 pm
How is that putting him as a bench player?
Sean Smith’s calculation of WAR has a single season scale; less than 2 is “reserve” or “bench”
phil
August 8th, 2012
2:02 pm
Another afternoon of reading the rantings of The Loon…..
And no, I don’t mean myself!
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
2:03 pm
About 30 ft from Eli Manning right now.
He sure is a hottie…
Shaun
August 8th, 2012
2:07 pm
Gee I don’t know, maybe watch him play! Be knowledgeable about others who play big league baseball! Ya know, the kind of things scouts and GM’s do and know? These types were evaluating talent long before WAR and the 2000 other new numerical methods that some use to evaluate talent existed.
Yes, WAR is a way to put a more definite measure on this stuff. Scouts are essentially using the same concept, though they might not use the same language but they just aren’t precisely measuring a player’s performance value.
Scouts are using the same concept in that they are essentially asking themselves the following: Based on a player’s skills, is he likely to be major league replacement level or above or below it; and roughly how far above or below. They may not use that terminology and, again, they are using precise-as-possible measures but they are essentially using the same concept that is used with WAR.