2:02 pm August 7, 2012, by Carroll Rogers
August 7th, 20125:02 pm
That’s a 220 strikeout pace over a 162 game season span.
Between he and Freeman, I’d pegged Freeman with more K’s… They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought. Still good players, but just different. Like, I thought for sure Heyward was a righty. Didn’t see that one coming. ( :
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
August 7th, 20125:03 pm
Wilt the stud…er,stilt.
August 7th, 20125:04 pm
OK DAP… Don’t think it will happen, but whatever. Just think if we had done that for…Oh, I don’t know…Escobar, for example.
It’s NOT the best player, or the player with the best stats, it’s the MOST VALUABLE play, and value is subjective…sorry, but it just is. You believe what you want, but each voter does so based on HIS definition of most valuable to his team. If you don’t get that, or don’t like it, tough Shydt
If “most valuable” is truly subjective, we aren’t able to have reasonable discussions about the most valuable player. It’s basically a taste thing. I like Cesar Izturis better than Andrew McCutchen so I think Izturis is the MVP. Izturis is my MVP based on my definition of most valuable. Hey, it’s all subjective. It’s based on my definition of most valuable to his team. So you can’t bring up any counter-arguments and we can’t discuss it. And the MVP award is about as meaningful as most people liking cheeseburgers. You’re probably right, in that that is what it is and it may be “tough shydt.”
Jimmy Rollins won in 2007 because of the subjective nature of the MVP Award voting. He wasn’t the most valuable player in any objective way we would attempt to measure value (and if we consider intangibles, it’s quite a stretch even then to consider him most valuable). It was a taste thing. A subjective thing. The voters preferred Rollins. That’s basically what the award is, whether we like it or not. That’s sort of the whole point of why folks argue about the MVP Award. Some of us don’t like that it’s subjective, that it’s essentially about taste. We realize we probably aren’t going to change that. But we are going to take our stands and express our thoughts and hopefully voters will eventually turn it in to what it’s presumably meant to be, an award that actually goes to the most valuable player in each league.
August 7th, 20125:05 pm
“I prolly started dreaming of vintage Jane Russell in the middle of my joke and spun out of control from there.”
At least it wasn’t Nipsey Russell.
When we sign McCann for too long of a contract next year and his knees can’t handle catching when he’s 34 or so we might need to trade Freeman to make room for him at 1B?
Looking forward to all the talk about “range” and first base with McCann there. Should be real entertaining.
August 7th, 20125:06 pm
Justin (AZ): Do people in the industry ever get annoyed with internet types trying to scout stat lines? Or do they just kind of laugh at “prospect gurus” who know nothing about prospects other than their baseball-reference pages?
Kevin Goldstein: You know, I have no idea. The angry chat dude won’t believe me, but I don’t have the time to read other people’s prospect work. As a basic rule, if you are talking to people in the industry, scouts, front office folks etc and doing the damn at games, I can respect what you do when it comes to prospects, and obviously there are a lot of people who fall into that category, like myself, Keith Law, the Baseball America crew, Mayo, etc. If you don’t talk to people in the industry constantly, I don’t think you can do this job (covering baseball below the big leagues) well at all. That’s just my personal opinion.
10paul They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought. Still good players, but just different.
i remember when they were tearing up the minor and folks were starting to notice, someone on here said when they heard there was a white guy and a black guy who were good friends and playing really well, they were sure that freddie freeman was the black guy and jason heyward was the white guy. i thought that was funny…
August 7th, 20125:07 pm
Strike outs are not problematic unless your name is Jeff Francoeur.
August 7th, 20125:08 pm
I may be forced to the DL because of my scroll finger usage today.
dap read my comment ab out the braves being a farm tam to other teams
what has killed the braves is the good ole 20 year tv money they got
on a lighter note…………
san diego padres was sold between 7-800 million
cleveland browns was sold for 1 billion
YES 1 BILLION DOLLARS
ONLY IN AMERICA
U GET A PENSION FOR LIFE OF ONLY 1 DAY IN BASEBALL,FOOTBALL,BASKETBALL
Who says unions are bad?
Josh Hamilton is not someone we want to go anywhere near….period!
And ever since I stopped reading anything a certain poster says – Shaun – about a month ago, my blog experience in the afternoons has dramatically imrpoved. What an ahole.
August 7th, 20125:09 pm
ralieghbravesfan Just think if we had done that for…Oh, I don’t know…Escobar, for example.
Andrew McCutchen, the NL 2012 MVP.
Between he and Freeman, I’d pegged Freeman with more K’s… They really are shaping up to be different players than I thought.
I still think the 2010 Heyward can come back. I am not in any shape giving up on him being an “elite walker” or “elite OBP” player. I do not think .280/.350/.500 is his ceiling.
August 7th, 20125:10 pm
PEDs or no PEDs, Barry Bonds had THE best eye at the plate that I’ve ever seen. The dude’s eye at the plate was so keen and selective. PEDs do NOT make your hitting eyes better – that’s TALENT without a doubt in my mind. Guy was a douche though!
August 7th, 20125:11 pm
coach – Wouldn’t offer him amulti year deal at this point – or for that matter, even if he finishes this season strong. If he holds up and keeps pitching like he is now, I’d offer him a deal for next year at a reasonable salary – maybe $5-6 mil depending on how he looks from here out.
Actually, HGH does aid vision.
August 7th, 20125:13 pm
But we are going to take our stands and express our thoughts and hopefully voters will eventually turn it in to what it’s presumably meant to be, an award that actually goes to the most valuable player in each league.
Rant as much as you care to, Shaun, you aren’t going to change a system that relies on human estimation to decide awards, for a variety of reasons that I suspect would be lost on you.
But good luck in your quest to have some objective measure replace the good old human factor. I guess we all need a windmill or two to tilt at.
The mvp for the braves is kimbrel not heyward
And no im not racist if thats what u thinking
You want stats
Kimbrel won 31 games for braves so far
You think atl.be this close if venters was the closer?
Heyward .255 last 46 games,.270avg.for season myp?
my list kimbrel
bring on the hate email
August 7th, 20125:14 pm
Andrew McCutchen, the NL 2012 MVP
McCutchen would get my very subjective, very human, vote today for MVP; that is, if I had a vote.
King of Carrot Flowers
Disagree DefBrave. Faster bat speed means you get a longer look at pitches, which definitely helps the hitter’s eye. PEDs increase bat speed, no?
August 7th, 20125:15 pm
“At least it wasn’t Nipsey Russell.”
I have perfect 20/20 vision, and I’m profoundly deaf which further enhances my sense of sight and peripheral vision (a proven fact). I played baseball through high school but I was never an excellent hitter. Even with great vision, it does not mean you have great eyes at the plate. That requires more than just a keen sense of vision. That’s TALENT
Fredi said he didn’t want to mess up progress Uggla has made lately, so he’s sitting him vs. Hamels. Uggla is 8-for-55 (.145) vs. Hamels.
August 7th, 20125:16 pm
Bonds was a great hitter before PEDs when he was pencil thin, no?
imo i think rev is getting the shaft here just like medlen was,he never starts,just like drew sutton,glad tb realised how good he was
August 7th, 20125:18 pm
Kevin McAlpin @KevinMcAlpin
Fredi says today was a planned day off for Dan Uggla, and that he told him prior to last night’s game. Uggla will be back in lineup tomorrow
August 7th, 20125:19 pm
braves have said they want to make an offer on nick swisher,denard spahn can be our cf
yeah, remember that Uggla is actually a better hitter against righties than he is against lefties
Well, “The Rev” can’t field like Janish. Up-the-middle-defense counts for quite a bit. And Janish has been a liability because of his lack of offense during the current stretch? I think not.
August 7th, 20125:20 pm
August 7th, 2012
Sounds reasonable to me…..get’er done
Span has terrible home/away splits, let him stay in Minn
In order to be a great hitter, you have to have the ability to recognize the pitches that are coming at you and you only have milliseconds to do so and react to them. Once you recognize and react, you also have to put the sweet spot of your bat to the sweet spot of the ball. I know damn well how hard that is
August 7th, 20125:21 pm
carroll why is rev not starting a game anymore?
just because he hit into dplay he is nothing but a p runner
sad how fredi favors others like uggla
Rev is a horror show in the field….
Why in the name of Uggla would you want the guy to EVER start?
No one has ever said Bonds didn’t have talent, ability or good eye sight when he was normal sized Barry Bonds and yes, would likely have been a HOF inductee without the extra curricular activities. Unfortunately – in his estimation – that wasn’t enough for him.
August 7th, 20125:22 pm
Barry got greedy.
Sad to say, but the Rev wasn’t ready for prime time. They rushed him, because they didn’t want to pay for AGon or another two-year contract at SS.
Opportunity knocked. Simmons answered. Later in the season, Janish comes along.
With all the time he spent on the DL this year, the Wilson signing looks like a waste. I’m not commenting on how he did on the field either.
However, when Simmons comes back, you may have Simmons with Janish at back up and with Pastornicky moving into a utility role.
August 7th, 20125:23 pm
Jeff Loria’s wallet was on PEDs this past winter. Now, just a thin nickel plated money clip standing at the freeway off-ramp.
Not a hate email but we have the right to tell you when you are wrong. Kimbrel hasnt won 31 games. Saving and winning a game are totally different. Apparently the only stat you like is wins and average. BTW, Heyward has a 4.5WAR, Kimbrel 2.3, Chipper 3.0. Kimbrel cant close out any games if the team isnt scoring. Jason’s played in 106 games, Kimbrel has only appeared in 42.
August 7th, 20125:24 pm
I think that’s right.
August 7th, 20125:25 pm
In the meantime…….I got the hots for Billy Hamilton, would love to see my Bravos try to steal him away from the Reds.
Lew – I don’t disagree with that notion at all. I was simply saying that his talent was not a product of his PEDs usage. It’s just unfortunate that we’ll never know how great, naturally, he truly could have been. Its also unfortunate that a lot of it got to his head. Ever notice that his head seemed to keep getting bigger over the years.
Rev foolishly tried to hot dog it in the field some too…..bad idea.
August 7th, 20125:26 pm
once again braves mgmt.tell lies
they said send him to aaa so he can get better be a super utility was there plans for him.hard to get better riding the bench,never playing?
i have no prob janish starting but everyone has a off day except freeman,and janish
please correct me if im wrong
prado has not played 1b fat heinske has with his superior range
would like to know why the ajc writers never ask this
also rev pinch hit for janish in the late innings
fredi not worried about his defense then huh?
I would certainly put Kimbrel very high on my MVP list. he has been a huge asset and he has done it all year long as opposed to most of the others who have been up and down
August 7th, 20125:27 pm
Must be sarcasm. TB has already traded him and he’s sporting a .278OBP in Pittsburgh. Lets not get carried away here. Janish has a better skill set for the SS job than Sutton does.
Its also unfortunate that a lot of it got to his [Bond's] head. Ever notice that his head seemed to keep getting bigger over the years.
Head-itis as a result of PEDs.
August 7th, 20125:28 pm
However, when Simmons comes back, you may have Simmons with Janish at back up and with Pastornicky moving into a utility role.
If he can show he can play some CF, Pastornicky could be a useful player I guess. Although being a good utility man usually means your surehanded defensively.
Jeff R, it’s not a matter of taking the human element out of the voting. Even if all of the voters looked at the MVP objectively, there would still be disagreement and there would still be that human element. It’s a matter of the MVP not being subjective and essentially being about taste.
It’s about wanting MVP voters to actually build an objective case where someone can go over their arguments and see where they’re coming from instead of the voters just voting for a player because it feels like that player should be the MVP.
I’m okay with folks in 2007 disagreeing on whether Pujols or Wright or Utley or Chipper deserved the award. But I have a problem with voters voting for Rollins essentially because he made some comments about beating the Mets before the season started and he played shortstop for a division winner after making those comments and he led the league in runs scored. Those things have nothing to do with answering which player was the most valuable.
I’m just asking for some reasoning and something beyond essentially “he just feels like the most valuable player.” Making a rational argument for one player over another, even if there are other rational arguments to be made for other players is very human. Making the process less rational and all about subjectivity and taste takes away from the award because you aren’t really rewarding value. You are rewarding which player can get the most attention or which player you like or which player looks cool playing. It’s more like a gymnastics or diving competition and not an award going to the most valuable player.
August 7th, 20125:29 pm
Janish and Johnson…………this is a much improved bench instead of Wilson and Diaz.
August 7th, 20125:30 pm
Palmeiro’s head didn’t grow…..
out of the 106 games heyward has played,how many did he win by himself
sorry but a .255avg.last 55 games is not getting it done
u the one who was wrong
why verlander won the cy young and MVP LAST YEAR
August 7th, 20125:31 pm
you really need to ‘ask’ elsewhere Shaun, we aren’t gonna be able to help you even in we wanted to, which most wouldn’t anyway
Drew Sutton Stays With Pirates Organization, Heads To Indianapolis
by Charlie Wilmoth • Aug 7, 2012 11:39 AM EDT
It appears that infielder Drew Sutton, who the Pirates designated for assignment amidst their slew of moves at the trading deadline, will remain in the organization. He has been assigned to Class AAA Indianapolis.
We are screwed if it comes down to either guy, so why does it matter?
agree with DOB on the Bonds totals on HOF voting (of course a blogger dealing with a veteran sports writer probably is not a big vote of approval)
the purity of the game is sacrosanct. Bonds violated that trust and will pay the price. As DOB mentioned Pete Rose, I would mention Shoeless Joe as an example (and people still debate whether he actually helped throw the Black Sox series). Could there be an asterisk wing showing accomplishments of the PED era of baseball – almost a shame hall where people’s accomplishments are noted – Bonds, McGuire, Clemens, etc., but the people are not official members of the HOF?
Bonds is the poster child for the steroid/PED era and he will be held accountable for his bad decisions.
August 7th, 20125:32 pm
Shaun and rational do not belong in the same sentence
August 7th, 20125:33 pm
all cheaters violate the purity of the game, anything else is hypocritical
AGAIN HOW CAN HE SHOW THIS IF HE IS RIDING THE BENCH?
WAS THIS NOT WHY HE WENT DOWN TO AAA FOR?
WHY IS HE EVEN UP HERE FOR?
IN CASE JANISH GETS HURT?
I HATE TO SEE PLAYERS LIKE REV,MEDLEN GET SCREWED BY BRAVES MGMT OVER AND OVER
RESIGN ROSS THIS IS A NO BRAINER
August 7th, 20125:34 pm
So Uggs comes off the bench and hits a meaningless home run tonight?
August 7th, 20125:35 pm
It doesn’t matter what Joe Jackson did or didn’t do in the 1919 WS. Historical fact is….he took the money and said nothing as his team tanked the WS.
Wins Above replacement
Jason Heyward 4.5
Chipper Jones 3.0
Craig Kimbrel 2.3
Is there no end to the stupidity of some?
August 7th, 20125:36 pm
Typical braves mgmt.
A person leads the braves with 21hrs,over .300avg and sits in aaa
nc fan is gradually adopting the new personality of his mentor, Roy Williams…
August 7th, 20125:37 pm
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
“THE ATLANTA BRAVES ARE A FARM TEAM FOR THE YANKESS,RED SOX,ANGELS,RANGERS,NATS”
Off the top of my head, the Rangers have the guys from the Tex trade and BoSox have Salty (originally part of Tex trade). Nats may have LaRoche and Yanks have Andrew, but Brave let them both walk. I fail to see how that qualifies as being a farm team for those teams even in lower case let alone upper case.
Maybe this is ground you covered this afternoon, Shaun, but how do you pick an MVP when the award is open to pitchers and hitter? When fielding comes into play to (or should). How do you objectively compare a pitcher’s contributions versus a hitter’s? Apples and oranges and scads of variables in-between.
Of course, there’s always going to be the subjective in most, if not all, human endeavors, sports awards not exempted. There’s ego, prejudice, politics, and self-interest that goes into how someone votes and who gets awarded.
Sometimes players who are given awards are generally recognized as deserving; other times, there’s controversy. Just the human condition.
Indeed. So far, he deserves it.
As for Jack Wilson, I was told that I was foolish to consider replacing him…. His defense isn’t all that special. Let him wait til Sept. to come back up, keep Janish and Rev instead. Just my opinion.
August 7th, 20125:38 pm
The Braves will attempt to sign Bourn to an extension while obviously offering him the qualifying contract offer. If they sign Bourn great. If they do not, they will take their compensatory pick. The Braves then would target a CF by trade with Peter Bourjos and Dernard Spahn being 2 possibilities.
you aren’t gonna garner all that much support using WAR here
Bring up that 300, 21 homer guy and play him every day………..
Wait a minute, you say he’s a first baseman? And maybe not such a good one at that.
Well, on second thought………
August 7th, 20125:39 pm
I think Janish is the longer term backup at short. Wilson’s days are numbered.
Though I wish Rev could stay in AAA and work on his SS, he’s a better option than Wilson right now. He’s kinda forced to be up here, esp. with Simmons being on the shelf until Sept.
VERLANDER CY YUNG,MVP
A RELIEVER HAS ALSO WON THE MYP BEFORE
YOU ASK PEOPLE HERE AND I SAY ITS KIMBREL
LIKE THE POSTER SAYS HE IS MORE CONSISTENT
RATHER HAVE KIMBREL SAVE THEN HEYWARD COME UP IN THE CLUTCH
18HRS 119 STRIKEOUTS
MCANN HAS 18 HRS WHATS YOUR POINT
HEYWARD PLAYS TWICE AS MANY GAMES HIS WAR SHOULD BE DOUBLE
August 7th, 20125:40 pm
yeah cause we sooo desperately need another left handed hitter
August 7th, 20125:41 pm
I know, been down this path before. But hey, its all about average and wins! Some here probably think Felix Hernandez didnt deserve the CY because he went 13-12
August 7th, 20125:42 pm
The Braves then would target a CF by trade with Peter Bourjos and Dernard Spahn being 2 possibilities.
Better not be Span…. useless outside of Minnesota, esp. in June.
I think Janish is the longer term backup at short. Wilson’s days are numbered.
Don’t mind it at all…. like Janish much more than I do Wilson.
August 7th, 20125:43 pm
Our lineup won’t be right until all 9 starters are LH…. then we got to get the bench that way too!
I LOVE ALL CAPS we should add some bold and some italics also.
If I had a choice between Wilson and Pastornicky and both were healthy, The Rev wouldn’t get too much playing time.
August 7th, 20125:44 pm
difference between CYA and MVP. most are not gonna think a 13-12 record deserves MVP
Janish is going to be our long term back up. I won’t be surprised to see Wilson left off our playoff roster
August 7th, 20125:45 pm
Comeback player of the year in american league is adam dunn hands down
Trout Mvp american league
I think the Braves will try to add Bourjos in a deal involving EOF or Venters
August 7th, 20125:47 pm
Behind Janish/Simmons? I’d go Rev there…. he might be a horror in the field, but Wilson isn’t a wizard at short either. Wasn’t very impressive at SS. Go with the young guy who has promise.
Bourjos has sure fallen apart this season
Funny how all including you unbelieveable says send jhey to aaa work on his hitting
only on this site so many bandwagon fans
August 7th, 20125:48 pm
That’s gonna hurt…. We could’ve had him instead of Minor (though Minor isn’t really that bad)
August 7th, 20125:49 pm
so u guys think fredi will go to a 6 man rotation when hanson comes back?
August 7th, 20125:51 pm
Trout is way better than harper
that kid is a hot head
August 7th, 20125:52 pm
we coulda had Minor AND Trout…twice
The Bench next year should have the Rev, backup SS and 2B, Juan the Fatty, Ross and Gattiis or Cuningham who ever doesn’t start in the outfield. I like the young players and would rather save money there and spend it locking up Jhey and Freeman long term. Also in terms of resigning Sheets it is a must if he continues to pitch they way he has. Every pitcher is a pitch away from TJ surgery just look at our own boys Beachy and Medlin.
not a regular 6 man, but some rest for starters here and there
August 7th, 20125:53 pm
I think it’s possible, but not likely.
August 7th, 20125:54 pm
Now you are showing your ignorance. Not once, will you find a comment on this blog from me suggesting that heyward should be sent to the minors. Dont make stuff up.
August 7th, 20125:56 pm
Doesnt make sense unless guys are hurting. We need every start that we can get from Hudson moving forward. Unless hes having ankle issues, there is no reason to go to a true 6 man rotation.
We talk baseball, other sports, music, movies, BBQ and whatever (except politics or religion)
Atlanta Braves RSS feed
Previous entries »
Send a feedback technical issue
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution