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1,129 comments Add your comment
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:28 am
Lots of #3 ceilings and present #4/5’s.
Hudson, A Guy, Hanson, Minor, and Maholm. That’s not brutal. Swapping out Hanson for Teheran, say, looks a little weaker at the moment, but might end up being stronger. Don’t know. Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:29 am
TOBF – “We all know who that pitcher is” ..Uh, King Felix?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:29 am
Collins said he’s going to have a talk with Bay about his use going forward, meaning he is now a matchup player. No longer the everyday LF.
— David Lennon (@DPLennon) August 7, 2012
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:30 am
TOBF – “We all know who that pitcher is” ..Uh, King Felix?
Umm no…. Emperor Zack.
BravesFanInMaine
August 8th, 2012
11:31 am
I think bourn resigns with the braves…. I just have that feeling!!
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:32 am
cricket – “has Dempster signed an extension yet?” Who cares?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:33 am
only if feelings could pay bills..
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
11:35 am
Hudson, A Guy, Hanson, Minor, and Maholm. That’s not brutal. Swapping out Hanson for Teheran, say, looks a little weaker at the moment, but might end up being stronger. Don’t know. Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
How about swapping out Hanson for Medlen while Teheran and Gilmartin pitch in Gwinnett? I guess the question being, is Frank Wren comfortable putting Teheran back at Gwinnett in April of 2013 for a third straight year? I suppose he has no choice if Julio isn’t showing him he is ready to fill the #5 spot. Wren is going to have to deal Delgado or Teheran this offseason, I think. I’d be near shocked if both pitcher were with this organization next Spring.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
11:35 am
Seriously, I probably wouldn’t pay what Grienke will be asking, but I probably would consider giving up a lot to Mariners for Felix.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:36 am
Depends on who ends up being A Guy.
Sheets. 1 year with a player option. $27M for the first year, $5M buyout. Option year will pay league minimum. Ha!
Lew
August 8th, 2012
11:37 am
Emporer Grienke? Calligugrienke?
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:38 am
raleighbravefan – are you saying you don’t want Dempster?
i was just messing around
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:39 am
Shields is A Guy
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:39 am
How about swapping out Hanson for Medlen while Teheran and Gilmartin pitch in Gwinnett?
If they’re comfortable with the third starter being a guy who has never started for a full season, sure. Or having Minor at 3, I guess. Either one.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
but I probably would consider giving up a lot to Mariners for Felix.
I don’t know that the Braves have enough minors depth to withstand the pillaging such a trade would require.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
is Frank Wren comfortable putting Teheran back at Gwinnett in April of 2013 for a third straight year? I suppose he has no choice if Julio isn’t showing him he is ready to fill the #5 spot.
This is a question only a prospect hugger would ask. Teheran has to make the team want him in the majors via his performance. The team can’t just promote a guy to “protect his value.” He’d be in the majors getting shelled. He’d lose value either way.
I’d be near shocked if both pitcher were with this organization next Spring.
I wouldn’t. Like I’m skeptical Wren will make the qualoffer, I’m skeptical Wren will swing a deal for the type of pitcher we hope to see. I see it going down much like the off-season which netted Kawakami and Lowe… and to think, Dempster was involved in that off-season as well. I recall Cox saying he really liked him and would love to have him, and then he re-upped with the Cubs. Then the Peavy trade fell through. Then AJ Burnett went to the Yanks, then Wren shelled out a ton of cash for Lowe and Kawakami. Gotta think he won’t do that again, which means, after failed trades, no free agent signing, one of Teheran/Delgado is in the rotation, the other in the bullpen/minors.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:41 am
forget missing out on Trout. how about missing out on Josh Rutledge?
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:42 am
If they’re comfortable with the third starter being a guy who has never started for a full season, sure. Or having Minor at 3, I guess. Either one.
Braves entered this year with Minor and Delgado in the rotation. The front office comfort level is pretty low.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:44 am
I suspect Josh Rutledge moves to 2B next year. Tulo seems to have SS locked up for some time now and the Rockies could use a 2B.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:44 am
Braves entered this year with Minor and Delgado in the rotation.
…with Hudson on the shelf. I don’t think Plan A was to start two rookies for 70 starts.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:46 am
wipe out minors depth for Felix and pay him 40mil for 2 years? not happening.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:47 am
Josh Rutledge for Uggla trade suggestions start here in…
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:48 am
with Hudson on the shelf. I don’t think Plan A was to start two rookies for 70 starts.
Ah, but they did. And the premise would result in only 1 guy being the “rookie” or guy who has never started for a full season.
Hudson, [Acquired guy traded or signed], Minor, Maholm, Meds.
monty
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
If Meds continues to pitch admirably but gets no love as far as a starting spot next season ot gets booted back to the pen, then it really is about his height, or his upsize.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
I don’t know that the Braves have enough minors depth to withstand the pillaging such a trade would require.
wipe out minors depth for Felix and pay him 40mil for 2 years? not happening.
All Greinke requires is that same price 20mil over 5/6 years…. no pillaging of the farm.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:49 am
Ah, but they did.
Should read “Ah, but they did it anyway.” Not imply that was the plan for the year… just that it ended up that way and it would presumably be less likely next year that two guys would be in the rotation with that resume.
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:51 am
Hudson, [Acquired guy traded or signed], Minor, Maholm, Meds.
You’re right, that would show a pretty low comfort level in the FO.
Oh well, Beachy gets back after the All-Star break, maybe, LOL.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:51 am
King Felix – finally a pitcher that makes look Greinke affordable to braves
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:53 am
Sheeesh the Rockies are bad. They’ve had only 2 winning streaks this year. Only twice have they won 3 games or more in a row. Once it was 3 games in a row. The next it was 5 games (including a double header sweep of the Astros)
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:54 am
You’re right, that would show a pretty low comfort level in the FO.
Guess it all depends on who “acquired guy” turns out to be…
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
11:56 am
And with that comment, I’m reading you would be more comfortable with Hanson over Meds? The upside might appear better, but the production trend…
cricket
August 8th, 2012
11:57 am
wow
This isn’t the first time Jim Tracy’s front-office bosses have tried to reinvent baseball. So excuse the Colorado Rockies manager if he isn’t in mutiny mode just because he must pull his starters after only 75 pitches and the first reliever he summons is called a “piggyback” and the entire cockamamie plan was dubbed Project 5,183 because that’s the altitude at Coors Field.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockies–pitching-strategy-is-historically-wacky–and-not-working-.html
ncscoots
August 8th, 2012
11:58 am
And with that comment, I’m reading you would be more comfortable with Hanson over Meds?
Probably, but not so much that I’d stamp my foot at the other way, if that’s the way it went.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:00 pm
Gotta think he won’t do that again, which means, after failed trades, no free agent signing, one of Teheran/Delgado is in the rotation, the other in the bullpen/minors.
I have to have more faith than that.
I guess we just have to wait until the end of the season for the qualifying offer decision and Heyward’s permanant 2012 slash line for TenneseePaul to be happy.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:01 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson. What the hell is going on around here?
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
12:01 pm
I don’t think Sheets is totally out of the picture, depending on rest of 2012 performance, and 2013 price.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
Over Hanson’s last 27 starts, (July 16, 2011 through July 30, 2012) he’s allowed opponents to hit .276/.350/.478/.828 with 62 XBH including 27 HR. He’s pitched to a 4.95 ERA and averaged 5.2 innings per start over 152 innings. Not exactly a high bar of production he’s been providing.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
The Rockies are a complete mess. They needed to clean house and all they did was re-organize stuff.
cricket
August 8th, 2012
12:02 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson.
shorties rule !!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:04 pm
I am still in shock that Kris Medlen throws harder than Tommy Hanson.
He’s actually taller than Hanson too, but that’s all part of his illusion.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:04 pm
Not exactly a high bar of production he’s been providing.
And he’d still be either the #1 or #2 starter on some of those scrub AL teams that I mentioned earlier. If the shoulder passes exams, he’d still fetch a decent prospect package or a trade around a CF.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:05 pm
That’s a WHIP of 1.5 for Hanson over his last 27 starts.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:05 pm
Over Hanson’s last 27 starts, (July 16, 2011 through July 30, 2012)
What’s the line of Polished over that time? I think it’s better, but I’d be curious to see the slash line of Minor in that time period and especially his oppo SLG.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
12:06 pm
Efrim – Shoulder injuries are toxic, especially for pitchers.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:08 pm
And I usually never want to sell low on players, but I just think trading Hanson makes sense. Maybe with the prospects we acquire from a team, it’ll either a) make it easier to part with others in our system, or b) use the prospects acquired + some others and flip em to another team for a starter.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:12 pm
Max (OR): Do you have a report on anyone in the minors with better pure velo than Bruce Rondon?
J.J. Cooper: Not in the minors. Have heard reports of him touching 102 and 103 this year.
Anyone see this kid at the Futures Game? RH Aroldis Chapman with that heater. Disgusting.
monty
August 8th, 2012
12:13 pm
If I was Hanson, I’d say, “I felt great” too! Then hope and pray I could deliver when I got the chance again. Maybe getting close to pitching for his professional life. ala, JJ.
Lew
August 8th, 2012
12:14 pm
I just don’t see the return on Hanson being all that high/
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:18 pm
I just don’t see the return on Hanson being all that high/
I don’t either…. he’s damaged goods.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:18 pm
Polished in that time has started 30 games, pitched 173 innings, averaged 5.2 IP a start, allowed an opp line of .258/.321/.459/.780 with 70 XBH including 30 HR. Pitched to a 4.68 ERA with a 1.324 WHIP.
JoeFan
August 8th, 2012
12:24 pm
Don’t believe the Braves will drop big money to sign Bourn. If they believe Cunningham will be ready to play CF by 2014, they will move Heyward to CF and go with Reed Johnson in RF. They then can leave Prado in LF and go with Francisco at 3B. Hopefully they will use some of this excess cash to beef up the rotation. However, as crasy as it may seem, the Braves can hold onto the cash and keep filling the rotation with prospects.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:24 pm
Baseball America just came out with there 2012 Minor League Best Tools list….it’s subscriber, but I’ll list the Braves stuff. Here were the categories:
Best Hitting Prospect, Best Power Prospect, Best Strike-Zone Judgement, Fastest Baserunner, Best Baserunner, Best Pitching Prospect, Best Fastball, Best Breaking Pitch, Best Changeup, Best Control, Best Reliever, Best Defender at all positions, Best Infield Arm, Best Outfield Arm, Most Exciting Player
INTERNATIONAL LEAGUE
Best Power Prospect – Ernesto Meija
Fastest Baserunner – Luis Durango
Best Baserunner – Luis Durango
SOUTHERN LEAGUE
Best Control – Sean Gilmartin
Best Defensive C – Christian Bethancourt
Best Defensive 3B – Joe Leonard
CAROLINA LEAGUE
Fastest Baserunner – Nick Ahmed
Best Defensive SS – Nick Ahmed
SOUTH ATLANTIC LEAGUE
Best Defensive C – Cory Brownstein
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:26 pm
Polished in that time has started 30 games, pitched 173 innings, averaged 5.2 IP a start, allowed an opp line of .258/.321/.459/.780 with 70 XBH including 30 HR. Pitched to a 4.68 ERA with a 1.324 WHIP.
.459 SLG, 70 XBH, 30 HR. Yikes. 4.68 ERA doesn’t even seem that bad given how many gappers and bombs he’s letting up.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:28 pm
eddymk #Braves release ’09 11th-round LHP Chris Masters, who put up 5.40 ERA following demotion to High-A.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:29 pm
Minor’s been outperforming Hanson… (ERA, WHIP, slash lines)…. Hanson ain’t all that young anymore, so not seeing why teams would be lining up to grab him, esp. with him being arb. eligible.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:30 pm
Makes me sick that we don’t have a single guy on this list….
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=4&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=3,d
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:32 pm
Hanson ain’t all that young anymore, so not seeing why teams would be lining up to grab him, esp. with him being arb. eligible.
Have folks seen some of the rotations that are around the bigs? It’s really bad, and some of these teams actually want to win next year. I can’t imagine why Baltimore and Kansas City wouldn’t want a controllable pitcher like Hanson. Like I said, Dyland Bundy, Manny Machado, Wil Myers, Bubba Starling aren’t necessary to be included in a trade.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:33 pm
Efrim: Maholm is 6th from the bottom on FBv
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:34 pm
CAROLINA LEAGUE
Tough Call: Dylan Bundy hasn’t mowed down hitters quite as regularly in the Carolina League, but he beat out a tough challenge from Yordano Ventura and J.R. Graham to earn the league’s Best Pitching Prospect.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:36 pm
Greinke is on that list… FBv of 92.5, throwing 52% fastballs. He comes before King Felix who has a FBv 91.9 and 58% of pitches thrown are fastballs.
tony austin
August 8th, 2012
12:36 pm
There’s no way I would pillage the farm for one player, not after the Tex trade. Not that I disagree with that trade, but that’s all we would read about here for years to come if the traded player doesn’t bring 5 consecutive WS to Atl.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
12:37 pm
Efrim you have to go all the way to page 3 before you find a Brave… That is pretty sad.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:38 pm
Medlen – 90.8, Minor – 90.3, Sheets – 90.3, Hanson – 89.8, Hudson – 88.9, Maholm – 87.6
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:40 pm
Mike Minor is the first Braves on the list: 59.6 % pitches are fastballs FBv of 90.3.
Hanson is the 2nd Braves pitcher: 54.8 % fastballs, FBv of 89.8
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:41 pm
Delgado was 92.0.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
Teheran was 92.2 in his one start.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
Makes me sick that we don’t have a single guy on this list….
One reason you don’t trade Randall Delgado or Teheran. Neither would top the list, but at least they’d be on it.
Honestly, I think you guys are a little too obsessed with revamping the staff. I think that since June 1, Braves have one of the top 2 or 3 ERA’s in the league.
I would jettison Hanson. And I hope (and expect) that Sheets is an option next year.
Between Sheets, Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, and (later) Beachy, I think we can cobble together a very competitive rotation. And of course, can always do something at the deadline next year if needed.
Delgado’s FIP (with apologies) has been solid in June and July. And it’s well documented the progress Minor is making. I really hope we didn’t spend all these years developing these guys just to trade them when they’re ready to contribute.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:42 pm
And what do you “need” in the playoffs? Power pitchers. The only one we have is Sheets.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:44 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/27764/ranking-the-center-fielders-trout-no-1
There ya go.
MFin04
August 8th, 2012
12:45 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:50 pm
Between Sheets, Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, and (later) Beachy, I think we can cobble together a very competitive rotation. And of course, can always do something at the deadline next year if needed.
Remove Sheets and Beachy(not a factor until August at the earliest). If you’re comfortable with Hudson, Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Maholm, Teheran, then that’s okay, but they need one more guy up front, imo.
TheOnlyBravesFan
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
they need one more guy up front, imo.
His name is Zack….
Hmm, are there any good young SP that could be traded? Or maybe Teheran breaks out next year and is our “ace”.
tony austin
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects. – MFin04
That’s a joke, right?
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
12:53 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
This off season? Are you nuts? Maybe after a couple more seasons when his price gets to high.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
12:55 pm
Remove Sheets …
So you’re of the frame of mind that says, “not one of our young guys, and certainly not Ben Sheets”? You keep dismissing him out-right. Personally I don’t know what to think of him. A 1 year deal I wouldn’t have a problem with him. I’d rather have some one bigger, but have my doubts that will happen.
ACE
August 8th, 2012
12:55 pm
At a recent state of the braves reception for season ticket holders, FW said resigning Bourn was the teams Number one priority.
unbelievable
August 8th, 2012
12:57 pm
Braves should see what they can get for Kimbrel, probably not going to resign him and should look to move him for prospects.
Under team control and doesnt cost much at this point. He’s not getting moved.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
12:58 pm
So you’re of the frame of mind that says, “not one of our young guys, and certainly not Ben Sheets”? You keep dismissing him out-right. Personally I don’t know what to think of him. A 1 year deal I wouldn’t have a problem with him. I’d rather have some one bigger, but have my doubts that will happen.
Let’s just wait until the end of the season. Maybe he does come back on a one year deal. But his injury history didn’t just vanish. I guess my point on all of this stuff is that we need a top of the rotation guy to pair with Hudson, and guess what, we need someone in 2014 when Hudson and Maholm aren’t under contract. We’re delaying the inevitable. Gotta get someone to lead the rotation.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
1:00 pm
When I think about Kimbrel getting traded all I can think about is those years between Smoltz and Wagner…. (Kolb, Reitsma, Wickman, Mike Gonzo)
He can’t become a FA until 2017 so I say lets keep him as long as we can possibly afford him!!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:00 pm
Well Ef, we’ve seen the 5-starts from him that we wanted from Jurrjens. I know his injury history didn’t just vanish, but so far so good. I’ve been pleased with what I see. I’m not saying make him a long term option or a major off-season move. But if he is brought back for a year, I’m not going to complain.
CrαZy
August 8th, 2012
1:02 pm
and guess what, we need someone in 2014 when Hudson and Maholm aren’t under contract. We’re delaying the inevitable. Gotta get someone to lead the rotation.
That’s why I think they’ll get someone this offseason.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:03 pm
Really hoping Chipper can end his career with at least 470 HR, 550 2B and 1500 BB. He’s 6 away from the HR and 2B mark and 14 away from the walks. Pretty sure he’ll hit the walks and doubles, the homers though… I was initially hoping he’d be at 475, but that looks a bit long now. Who knows, maybe he goes on a tear and just dominates down the stretch.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
If Chipper threw his averages into the wind and hung around, he’d reach 3,000 hits and 500 HR. He just wouldn’t get there with the 300/400/500 line he has now. And I’m glad he’s going to go out with that. He’s going out right. He’s OPS+ over his career norm so far. He has raise his average in his final season. It’s just good stuff all around.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
But if he is brought back for a year, I’m not going to complain.
I won’t either, but it can’t just be all that is done with the rotation. As I said, you’re just delaying the inevitable and while I understand that it’s sort of the name of the game for professional sports(delaying to fill the need), it doesn’t mean that we should settle for less.
phil
August 8th, 2012
1:06 pm
Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
Game over before it even really gets going.
And what the heck was Mac doing trying to stretch that double into a double last night? He’s slower than a dead turtle. It was embarassing to behold.
Now 4 games out. Time’s beginning to slip away….
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:07 pm
Those lost numbers can be chalked up to his injuries. He’d easily have surpassed 3000/500 had he not missed his 1994 season and had fewer injuries late in his career.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:11 pm
Oh, and how good has Bourn been in 2012? FanGraphs assesses his WAR (wins above a garden-variety replacement player) value as 4.6 games. Among non-pitchers, that’s the 14th-best in baseball. Jason Heyward is 15th, Martin Prado 26th. Be a shame to break up that outfield. – Mark Bradley
Why is Heyward on that list? He’s had one great month and a whole lot of average. What a stupid stat that WAR is…….
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:12 pm
Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
Haven’t we destroyed Dickey and Strasburg this year?
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:13 pm
but it can’t just be all that is done with the rotation
If that is all that is done, there are other issues. That would be a result of not out bidding other teams for players in trades or FA. And sometimes that is out of the GM’s hands.
raleighbravefan
August 8th, 2012
1:13 pm
This Winter should be very interesting. Can we get an ace? Resign Bourn. Who replaces Bourn. If we do both, do you start Reed Johnson, or Franscisco as a regular? You’ve got to rebuils the bench. What do you do with Hanson, and with EOF? I’m assuming we non-tender JJ. Should be exciting.
This will be Wren’s “signature” off season.
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:15 pm
What a stupid stat that WAR is
Based on a player performing on a .333 winning percentage team. I have issues with WAR. every iteration of it. It has it’s pluses, I acknowledge, but it isn’t high on my list for many reasons.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:15 pm
This will be Wren’s “signature” off season.
Agreed.
MikeInFl
August 8th, 2012
1:16 pm
Among non-pitchers, that’s the 14th-best in baseball. Jason Heyward is 15th, Martin Prado 26th. Be a shame to break up that outfield
Nah, let him go, take the pick, and add the 13th-best WAR player in bb, Chase Headley!!!
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:16 pm
Haven’t we destroyed Dickey and Strasburg this year?
Beat the snot out of Halladay as well. 8 runs in 5.1 innings..
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:17 pm
It has it’s pluses, I acknowledge, but it isn’t high on my list for many reasons.
It’s not the first or second thing I look at. It has it’s pluses, as you say. Just like other stats aren’t the end all be all. Looking at everything is the best way to go about it, imo.
Shaun
August 8th, 2012
1:18 pm
Maybe this is ground you covered this afternoon, Shaun, but how do you pick an MVP when the award is open to pitchers and hitter? When fielding comes into play to (or should). How do you objectively compare a pitcher’s contributions versus a hitter’s? Apples and oranges and scads of variables in-between.
Jeff R, just saw this from yesterday. There are ways to measure both a pitcher and a position player’s contributions (fielding, hitting and baserunning) and convert them into runs created and prevented and, in turn, wins. Comparing one player’s contributions in terms of runs and wins is not apples to oranges. It’s runs to runs or wins to wins.
The tricky part is when two or more players are close in terms of what they contributed equaling about the same number of runs or wins. But there certainly are ways to break down contributions of players, even players that play drastically different positions, in to how those contributions relate to scoring and preventing runs. And whether a player is a pitcher or a hitter, the game is about contributing in terms of creating and preventing runs. So if you can break it down to that level (and we absolutely can at least come reasonably close), it’s not apples to oranges at all.
Efrim
August 8th, 2012
1:20 pm
Nah, let him go, take the pick,
It’s not just “let him go, take the pick”. It’s let him go, take the pick and keep yourself from handing out one of the silliest contracts of the last few winters.
And, we have a flat, 90 million dollar payroll. So let’s not compound the awful nature of a Bourn long term deal with the fact that it would be extra hurtful for us, than say the Phillies, Giants or Yankees.
Patrick
August 8th, 2012
1:21 pm
Here’s a legitimate question.
If anyone has read Bradley’s newest article about the fact that Bourn could end up in Washington or Philly if the Braves don’t re-sign him.
My question is: would you trade McCann to be able to free up the money to re-sign Bourn?
Now, we all know that the Braves are too damn cheap-even with all the money coming off the books after this season-to re-sign Bourn and make their other moves.
So, if McCann continues to finish the season with a flurry, he could bring a lot back in a trade. Also, that would free up room for the Braves to re-sign Bourn and an ace and some smaller parts (bench players, bullpen pieces, etc…)
If it were me, I would do it. McCann has started to show that he’s slipping, he’d be a perfect fit in the AL where he can DH. He’d re-stock a farm system that is not a top tier as is used to be with promotions and Wren trading one of our best propects for 2 role players. And he’d free up even more payroll. It seems like a win scenario for the Braves.
It will be very unpopular, but they’d be ahead of the curve and I think it’d really help them.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
August 8th, 2012
1:25 pm
phil Throw a good pitcher at us, we collapse like a house of cards….
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL201205020.shtml
TennesseePaul
August 8th, 2012
1:27 pm
Looking at everything is the best way to go about it, imo.
I generally don’t even look at WAR. Everything else though is interesting. Last year, for instance, Sean Smith’s analysis puts Freeman’s rookie season as a bench player. This year he is still a bench player level player, maybe a starter. By this measure, there are only 8 players at 1st base in the majors who should be starting. The rest are bench players or QuadA players. The calculation needs some work…