Braves wouldn’t make Tex-like mistake again on Greinke

When I hear people complain about the Braves not beating the Angels’ offer for Zack Greinke, I’m surprised at how quickly some here have forgotten about the Mark Teixiera trade while others bring it up Every Single Time that the Rangers are in the news, and each time a couple of the five prospects the Braves traded to the Rangers in that deal make the All-Star team.

So some of you'd have given up two or even three top prospects for two months of Greinke, huh? How soon we forget this man and the four top prospects the Braves traded to get him.

So some of you'd have given up two or even three top prospects for two months of Greinke, huh? How soon we forget this man and the four top prospects the Braves traded to get him.

To update on four of the five prospects sent to Texas in that deal: Elvis Andrus is a two-time All-Star and was AL Rookie of the Year runner-up in 2009; Neftali Feliz was an All-Star and AL Rookie of the Year in 2010; Matt Harrison was an All-Star this season and is 26-14 with a 3.23 ERA in 40 starts in 2011-2012; Jarrod Saltalamacchia has 20 homers, 46 RBIs and a .515 slugging percentage in 79 games this season for Boston.

They were all sent to the Rangers along with left-hander Beau Jones in exchange for Teixeira and lefty Ron Mahay on July 31, 2007.

Teixeira hit .295 with 37 homers, 134 RBIs and a .943 OPS in 157 games for the Braves, who didn’t make the postseason in 2007 and were out of the race in 2008 when they traded him to the Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman, who has since played with Boston, Seattle, Tampa Bay and Cleveland, and minor league reliever Stephen Marek, now in the Blue Jays organization after leaving as a six-year minor league free agent. convinced that general manager Frank Wren is going to anger half the fan base if he does that deal and the other half if he doesn’t.

As good as Teixiera’s overall numbers were with the Braves, he got off to a typically slow start in ’08 when the Braves fell behind quickly. Agent Scott Boras and Teixeira were looking for far more than what the Braves offered in a contract extension before trading him, and Teixeira got it when he signed an eight-year, $180 million deal with the Yankees a couple of days before Christmas 2008.

Which brings us to Greinke, who would have probably made about 10 starts for the Braves during the remainder of the regular season, then commanded at least $20 million per year in at least a five-year deal and probably six. He turned down a five-year, $100-plus million extension from the Brewers recently, and like many I shook my head when I heard about that, wondering what he was thinking if he believed he could do better.

Then Cole Hamels signed a six-year, $144 million extension this week to stay with the Phillies, and I’m not longer doubting that Greinke will get more than $20 million per season if Hamels got $24 million.

Not that I think Greinke is as good an investment. I don’t. (And yes, I’m aware of their WAR ratings and how Greinke compares to Hamels and Matt Cain, etc.)

The Angels gave up three of their top 10 prospects to get Greinke. Three. Even if the Brave had included their preseason No. 1 prospect Julio Teheran, they would’ve had to give up at least one of their other elite prospects and perhaps two. I still haven’t heard exactly what Milwaukee asked from the Braves. I would imagine that catcher Christian Bethancourt was in the package the Brewers asked for, particularly if Teheran wasn’t included and perhaps even if if was.

If I’m the Braves I wouldn’t wouldn’t give up Bethancourt for anything until Brian McCann’s name is signed on the dotted line on a long-term extension. Bethancourt is too good, too special a talent, to give up for any rental player. Especially one who’s only going to make about 10 starts for you, as opposed to, say, Teixeira or J.D. Drew, players the Braves got with a year left on their contracts in hopes they would each help them in two playoff drives and two postseasons. Which obviously didn’t work out.

Some fans and media members see Greinke’s nasty repertoire and say damn the torpedoes, screw tomorrow and make the deal for today, for the ticket to the World Series in Chipper Jones’ final. To which I say, if there was even a reasonably good assurance that Greinke would put them over the top and get them to the World Series, perhaps you’d have a point. But there is not.

For one thing, the Braves will play about half of their remaining games on the road, and if they go to the playoffs as a wild-card team they would not have home-field advantage in any round. I bring this up because of Greinke’s home-road statistical disparity, which may or may not have anything to do with his well-chronicled battles with depression and social anxiety disorder.

From 2009 — his Cy Young Award season with Kansas City, so people won’t accuse me of cherry-picking stats — through 2011, Greinke was a sparkling 29-8 with a 2.99 ERA in 94 home starts, and 13-20 with a 3.72 ERA in 45 road starts. The disparity has become more pronounced in the past couple of seasons with Milwaukee.

Last season he was 5-6 with a 4.70 ERA on the road, and 11-0 with a 3.13 ERA at home. This season he has a 2.56 ERA and .196 opponents’ average and .557 opponents’ OPS in eight home starts, compared to a .294 opponents’ average and .719 opponents’ OPS in 13 road starts.

His only experience on the big stage of the postseason was last fall, when he went 1-1 with a 6.48 ERA and .311 opponents’ average in three starts against Arizona and St. Louis, none of which were “quality starts.” He lasted fewer than six innings in two of those starts and gave up six runs and eight hits in six innings of the other, a win against St. Louis in which the Brewers scored eight runs while he was in the game.

If I’m giving up multiple top prospects for a rental player who’s a pitcher, I want more of a proven postseason commodity, or at least someone with a more consistent track record and without any question marks about performing when the pressure is turned up and the attention and scrutinty are far more intense than for home games at Miller Park.

So what’s still available on the pitching market? Ryan Dempster, obviously. We won’t rehash his resume, since we’ve done it a half-dozen times in the past couple of weeks. Suffice to say, I think if you’re going to give up a top-10 prospect – one, not multiple top-10 prospects — for a rental player, he’d be a reasonable one to do it for, given his seasonal and recent performance, the fact he badly wants another trip to the postseason and to finish strong in his free-agent walk year, and this: In the past three seasons, he’s 9-5 with a 3.47 ERA in 17 August starts, with 99 strikeouts in 106-1/3 innings, and 6-7 with a 3.42 ERA in 17 September starts, with 95 strikeouts in 110-1/3 innings.

Felix Hernandez. If giving up multiple prospects in deal, this is the guy you want -- a consistant horse of a pitcher with two years left on his contract. But it doesn't look like the Mariners will trade "King" Felix.

Felix Hernandez. If giving up multiple prospects in deal, this is the guy you want -- a consistant horse of a pitcher with two years left on his contract. But it doesn't look like the Mariners will trade "King" Felix.

And no, neither he nor the Braves have ruled out the deal, despite all the water under that bridge. Still won’t surprise me if it happens.

The Marlins’ Josh Johnson or Seattle’s Felix Hernandez, both legit No. 1 starters and both under contract beyond this season, would be the best possible pickups for the Braves, but seem like pipe dreams at this point. Johnson will make $13.75 million in 2013 before he becomes a free agent, Marlins are said to be asking for a Teixeira-trade-like bounty in return (yes, that trade is still the one used as a point of reference, which isn’t good from the perspective of the Braves).

“King” Felix is owed $39.5 million over the 2013-2014 seasons, and Seattle isn’t likely to trade him after jettisoning franchise icon Ichiro Suzuki and others already. Hernandez is a stud, period. If the Braves could get him, I’d say three top prospects would be very reasonable to give up for that guy. But again, indications are he’s not on the block.

Tampa Bay is also said to have a too-high asking price for James Shields, who has two more affordable options ($9 million in 2013 and $12.5 million 2014). Besides, the Braves want a guy who can help them get a lot better right now, and right now Shields is 2-5 with a 5.37 ERA and .308 opponents’ average in his past 11 starts. He has 68 strikeouts and 23 walks in 70-1/3 innings in that span, but also 92 hits allowed including eight home runs. He has only three quality starts in that two-month stretch.

“Big Game” James (that’s his nickname) went 2-2 with a 2.88 ERA in four postseason starts in 2008, but is 0-2 with a 10.61 ERA in two playoff starts since then — both against Texas, one in 2010 and one in 2011.

Boston left Jon Lester is an intriguing option and one the Braves have explored. His terrible stats at Fenway Park this season might turn off some people, but look closer and you’ll see there’s reason to like this guy as an option, including the fact that he’s signed for $11.625 million in 2013 with a $13 million team option in 2014.

He’s 5-8 with a 5.46 ERA in 20 starts this season, but 3-2 with a 3.04 ERA in eight road starts. The home bugaboo is new for Lester, who in the previous three seasons was 20-13 with a 3.34 ERA in 42 career home starts and 29-13 with a 3.40 ERA in 53 road starts (he’s spent his whole career with the Red Sox).

Postseason experience? Yeah, he’s been there, done that. He has a 2.57 ERA and .213 opponents’ average in eight postseason games (six starts), though only a 2-3 record to show for it thanks to terrible run support (the Red Sox scored two or fewer runs while he was in all of his postseason starts, including no runs in two.)

Another possible option worth considering: San Diego’s Edinson Volquez, who is 3-0 with a 1.55 ERA in his past six starts, after going 1-5 with a 5.72 ERA in the previous seven. For the season, he’s 6-7 with a 3.30 ERA for the Padres, including a 2.84 ERA at pitcher-friendly Petco Park and a 3.96 road ERA. His .209 opponents average including .201 vs. lefties, .216 vs. righties.

After going 1-5 with a 5.72 ERA and 27 walks (33 strikeouts in 39-1/3 innings in seven starts from May 17 through June 19, he’s 3-0 with a 1.55 ERA, .164 opp average and 22 walks (41 strikeouts) in 40-2/3 innings over his past six starts, including a one-hit shutout against Houston. Only allowed one homer in his past eight starts.

Volquez is making only $2,237,500 this seaon and has one more year of arbitration before free agency.

But here’s one potential red flag, for his career, he’s 13-20 with a 5.15 ERA and .272 opp average in 52 games (49 starts) after the All-Star break, compared to 26-16 with a 3.80 ERA and .224 opp average before the break.

Oh, one other option you guys are probably aware of, which looks better by the day: Kris Medlen. In 10 July relief appearances for the Braves, he has a 0.55 ERA in 16-1/3 innings, with only eight hits, one run and four walks allowed, and 13 strikeouts to go with a .143 opponents’ average in that span. The Braves, if they can’t get another starter without mortgaging the future, might just go with him and add him to the rotation Tuesday.

BRAVES LINEUP

  1. Bourn CF
  2. Prado LF
  3. Heyward RF
  4. Jones 3B
  5. Freeman 1B
  6. McCann C
  7. Uggla 2B
  8. Janish SS
  9. Minor P

• Had some more stuff, but out of time. I would just remind you, Brian McCann will be trying to extend his rather remarkable streak of six consecutive games with a homer against the Phillies. Tonight he’ll face Joe Blanton, against whom he is 10-for-24 (.417) with three homers. Blanton, who is 4-5 with a 5.79 ERA in his past 12 starts, will face Mike Minor, who is 3-3 with a 3.64 ERA and .213 opponents’ average in his past eight.

Let’s close with a great tune off Sugar’s Copper Blue album, just reissued in a terrific package with their Beaster EP and a live show. You can see them do it live by clicking here.

Sugar_band

“CHANGES” by Sugar (Bob Mould)

I want something like i remember
And I want something
That lasts forever
I remember times you said
That you’d be true to me
Look at how the weather’s changing

I’m accustomed to your deception
Comes the rule with no exception
And I’ve been dragged across the river
Running far and wide
Come and see how I feel inside

Change for the better
Change for the worse
Changes with summer and fall

Now you’re a stranger
Spare me some change
So i can find someone to call my own

Now that winter has fallen upon us
I need something that’s warm and honest
And if i found someone who thinks
That they’ll be true to me
I really wouldn’t want to change it

I have seen i have seen
What these changes mean to me
If you’re thinking of changing
If you’re thinking of staying with me
We need to agree
We need to make some changes
We need what we need
Do i need you
Do you need me

Changes
These changes
Changes
These changes
Changes
These changes
Changes
Changes

– by David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog

1,207 comments Add your comment

Freddie Freeman

July 28th, 2012
3:04 pm

First (Base)

Waiting 4 D Haters

July 28th, 2012
3:05 pm

Matthew 19:30

TheOnlyBravesFan

July 28th, 2012
3:05 pm

3rd… lemme read it now

nolie

July 28th, 2012
3:09 pm

David O'Brien

July 28th, 2012
3:10 pm

Braves lineup: Bourn cf, Prado lf, Heyward rf, Jones 3b, Freeman 1b, McCann c, Uggla 2b, Janish ss, Minor p

UNCBrave

July 28th, 2012
3:11 pm

DOB=spin cycle on GREINKE for Braves

TheOnlyBravesFan

July 28th, 2012
3:12 pm

Good read, DOB. Great job as always.

Chris from the Rock

July 28th, 2012
3:12 pm

Buddy Carlyle is the way to go.

Dawg '88

July 28th, 2012
3:12 pm

so the Angels are willing to do everything in their power to win the WS now and the Braves are not. Ok…thats now clear for me. Wait till next year or the year after or the year after that or maybe…never.

Now that encourages the fan base.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:13 pm

Thanks, DOB, for the comprehensive analysis of Greinke and Braves’ trade possibilities.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:16 pm

DOB=spin cycle on GREINKE for Braves

I think UNCBrave is taking lessons in idiocy from ACE (Bless your heart, ACE, wherever you are).

Memphis

July 28th, 2012
3:16 pm

The Angels also have one of the more wealthier owners in baseball.

Powderfinger

July 28th, 2012
3:16 pm

I still like the idea of moving Meds into the rotation. DOB, can you give us some names that might be available to replace him in the pen if that happened? Also, what’s the timetable for Petey’s return?

NORRIS

July 28th, 2012
3:17 pm

Does anyone actually really believe that the Nationals will shut down Strausburg and not let him pitch if they make the playoffs? Come on. The whole reason you play this game is to win. If they sit him then I got some swamp land for sale in Arizona.

nolie

July 28th, 2012
3:17 pm

it should have been clear a long time ago ‘88

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:17 pm

And in the case of the Braves situation they should avoid a potential first Texiera deal.

Actually the Braves made two bad Tex trades, and I still say to this day that the second deal with the Angels for the junk thay got back was worse then the first. The picks comming back were a better gamble, never liked Kotchman/Marek from day one.

NORRIS

July 28th, 2012
3:17 pm

i heard moylan just went on the DL again. Is that true?

Pace

July 28th, 2012
3:19 pm

NORRIS – he’s on the DL for tendinitis (shoulder) – he said he could’ve pitched through it, expects to be out a week.

Metro Coach

July 28th, 2012
3:19 pm

Jim Bowden tweeted that it would be LA for Dempster, whether it would be Tuesday or in November. He’s of the opinion that the Braves are not an option. TIFWIW.

Justin

July 28th, 2012
3:19 pm

Trade For Wade Davis stick him in the pen and put Medlin in the Rotation

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:20 pm

so the Angels are willing to do everything in their power to win the WS now and the Braves are not. Ok…thats now clear for me. Wait till next year or the year after or the year after that or maybe…never.

Hmm… let’s see. The Angels have a deep-pockets owner willing to pay out the ying-yang for talent. The Braves have a restricted budget. Might that be a difference maker?

And the “Win it right now and and damn the future” crowd are funny folk. Cause if the Braves did as they said and “won it right now,” surrendering key talent in the process, and then failed to scratch in subsequent seasons, you bet the very same folk would be hollering about that, too.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:23 pm

Hello everyone! Better mood…….Thanks for the article DOB. Good stuff.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:24 pm

BTW Jeff R –

Yes, that LM allows its baseball people to run the team is a good thing, but they are not giviing their baseball people enough of a payroll to compete for top tiered talent in today’s market.

To afford a legit number one or two pitcher and extend him in his prime you are going to pay in excess of 20 mil for five or six yrs. To maintain an All-Star level guy you will pay in the 15 mil plus range for maybe more yrs, and a superstar, that is in the 20 plus mil range.

You cannot do that with a 90 mil roll and fill out the roster with any kind of quality.

If they are going to stay with 1998’s payroll and that seems to be a fixed in stone range they are giving FW, its an inordinate amount of pressure on the system.

And its frustrating to see guys you develop an attachment to walking out while all you are seeing is a revolving door.

What is 90 mil gonna be in 2030????? Cause I don;t know if anything will change in the next 20 yrs.

In the meantime we can enjoy seeing Delgado and Minor work on getting better and as you said you have to tough it out with young pitchers.

These guys are so so much better than the Jo Jo Reyes and Charlie Mortons of the world.

From where we were at the end of 08, where Wren has taken them with these limited resources is great.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:24 pm

The Tex deal evidently made a lasting impression on Wren (who wasn’t responsible) and the front office. The Braves contribute mightily to Texas’ success by giving them core talent.

Good for Wren having the prudence not to unload a bushel of key prospects on a roll-of-the-dice trade for a supposed game-changer.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:24 pm

DOB – Scott Hairson was mentioned from the Mets last night in an article. Are the Braves going to get hm for the bench, or is that just a false rumor.

Nerdbucket Moylan

July 28th, 2012
3:25 pm

Gotta agree w DOB on this one. Not worth dealing Teheran + for Greinke or Delgado for Dempster. If we are going to make a move it really needs to be for a longer term solution. This team MIGHT make the wild card with 1 SP addition. That’s really a poorly calculated risk considering the current state of the team. Now, if we didn’t have so many weaknesses and 1 SP would help us win the division and we looked strong enough to make a WS push then I might consummate a deal for a short term solution ie greinke.

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:26 pm

Thank goodness because an organization couldn’t survive after many of those bone-headed deals.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:27 pm

Hmm… let’s see. The Angels have a deep-pockets owner willing to pay out the ying-yang for talent. The Braves have a restricted budget. Might that be a difference maker?

Sure it is — But when you have the deep pocket owner you can replace prospects and they LAA have developed a great one in Mike Trouth and Jared Weaver is home grown.

On the other hand you can spend dumb and trade dumb — Like the Boston Dead Sox. Worst run big market team in baseball. And a current GM wh is in over his head and in total denial.

Juan

July 28th, 2012
3:27 pm

Ward…that was a false rumors, also look like the mets going to bench Bay and going to use Scott Hairston more

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

What we got for Tex when we traded him is as bad as what we gave up. I mean, look that Milwaukee just got for Greinke. Look that the Mets got for Beltran last year. We got Casey Freaking Kotchman and Steve Marek. Are you frigging kidding me?

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

Last two times the Braves sat Uggla we won big not because of the replacement but it was still big wins. Just saying!

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

Remember that the first Tex deal was not Frank’s doing — it was Mr. Scheurholz.

JS also made a similar one in the JD Drew deal.

The org want through the transition of austerity and JS did not adjust at the end & JS as great as he was got out at the right time.

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

DOB, think they would give up Teheran for Shields? Big Game James isn’t having the best of years.

RTS

July 28th, 2012
3:29 pm

The same idiots on here complaining we did not make the trade would be the same ones complaining if we made the trade and we dont win a WS and Greinke leaving at the end of the season………I wanted a front line starter too BUT not at the cost of what it would have cost the Braves. I would give Hanson 1 more start to prove something….or swap him out with Delgado. hanson is killing us….seems like he gets a pass for his poor performance(Delgado’s stats are better than his)

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:30 pm

Yes, that LM [Liberty Media] allows its baseball people to run the team is a good thing, but they are not giviing their baseball people enough of a payroll to compete for top tiered talent in today’s market.

I don’t disagree, Disgusted, that the Braves need a bigger budget. But it’s not going to increase much until Liberty Media sells the Braves – and Liberty Media will do that, in my estimation, sooner rather than later.

Who buys the Braves is critical. Believe me, you don’t want a wealthy fool like Peter Angelos and his family owning the Braves. Money’s only good if spent wisely.

You want an owner (or owners) who are willing to smartly increase the budget but keep the baseball operations in the hands of capable execs.

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
3:30 pm

I would give up Teheran for Josh Johnson every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Teheran, Spruill, and a top position prospect not named Bethancourt. Is that in the ballpark?

Lawton

July 28th, 2012
3:30 pm

Braves are now a mid-market team. It is what it is. The emphasis shifts to player development and getting production from players during their first 6 seasons. This team isn’t a top of the division team right now because the pitchers developed (or acquired early in their careers) haven’t sustained themselves as front of the rotation pitchers. They would be Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurjjens specifically. Its’t not like they haven’t tried. It just hasn’t happened for them, and that’s baseball.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:30 pm

Still think Braves need an owner, not Liberty Media.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:32 pm

I hope Dumpster does go to L.A., anywhere but here.

He is one of my most hated guys in sports right now. Stand up & BOO him loud when he comes around here again.

He & Melky — Despise both of em.

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
3:32 pm

Not me RTS. I understand the Tex trade. Salty was blocked by McCann. At the time, Elvis was blocked by Yunel. The two we really gave up were Feliz and Harrison. Feliz was the wildcard in the trade at the time and we had depth in starting pitching prospects. Hindsight says the trade wasn’t good, but you have to take it in context too. It isn’t like we gave up 5 players who were going to contribute to the team right away. Salty still would not be playing for us. Elvis would have when Yunel wore out his welcome, but now we have Simmons. Harrison and Neftali are the ones that hurt…

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:32 pm

On the other hand you can spend dumb and trade dumb — Like the Boston Dead Sox. Worst run big market team in baseball.

At least the Red Sox have a championship to show in recent years. The Orioles went from a premier franchise to bottom-feeders during the Angelos family’s tenure.

Bama Brave

July 28th, 2012
3:32 pm

I Feel Bad For Chipper Jones,

Lawton

July 28th, 2012
3:33 pm

The Braves don’t get the gate or the TV revenues to be a 100 to 120mil+ payroll team. I don’t think fans should expect ownership to operate in the red just to put a World Series contending team on the field.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:34 pm

Lets all do a Liberty Media bashing for the whole night campaign…….Just so they here us loud, and clear…..

Juan

July 28th, 2012
3:35 pm

Bama why you feel sorry for Chipper?….he’s hitting 300 and the season is not over yet.Two more months for Baseball.

Nerdbucket Moylan

July 28th, 2012
3:35 pm

Middle market teams and GM’s do not sign Kenshin Kawakami’s for $7m per year. They do not sign Dan Uggla for 5 years and $60m. They do not sign Drunk Lowe for 4 years $60m.

Wren does not spend wisely, does not value OBP, and does not understand the concept of selling high. We’ve got to fire Wren and get new owners.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:35 pm

Lets all do a Liberty Media bashing for the whole night campaign…….Just so they here us loud, and clear…..

I wouldn’t do too much bashing of Liberty Media. Sometimes, the devil you know is better than the one you don’t know.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:35 pm

Lawton — The Braves are evolving into a small market team given the wage scale that is cmming down the road the next very few yrs.

It sucks — We are not a small market or even a mid market city. The Braves do not draw a bad gate and we deserve better. We were a top two or three drawing team in the 90’s/

Hating LM is not going to force them out, but we can dislike them anyway. I liked it better in the days of Ted and want those days agein.

Wow

July 28th, 2012
3:36 pm

The future for the Braves isn’t looking so bright anymore. The “untouchables” have been anything but, and the Nationals have been unstoppable and they’re just getting starting, they’re going to be even better as the years go by.

PHILLY PHAN

July 28th, 2012
3:36 pm

Penpal

July 28th, 2012
3:37 pm

Ya know What ?? Sometimes you are damned if you do, and damned if you don’t !!

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:37 pm

At least the Red Sox have a championship to show in recent years. The Orioles went from a premier franchise to bottom-feeders during the Angelos family’s tenure.

Yea Jeff, but they are in decline right now and they have $$$$$$$ they really cannot move and they are going to be mediocre to bad for a while. That is unacceptable for thse fans.

ChattTownBrian

July 28th, 2012
3:37 pm

I doubt they get Shields, just because he’s having an off year and it is obvious Wren is trying to go for right now. And the future too, but it sounds like Shields has some serious kinks in his armor that might need an offseason to work on. Just don’t see that happening.

Wow

July 28th, 2012
3:38 pm

“On the other hand you can spend dumb and trade dumb — Like the Boston Dead Sox. Worst run big market team in baseball.”

And how many more championships have the Braves won than the Red Sox in the last decade again?

Bama Brave

July 28th, 2012
3:38 pm

Because He Hinted That We Needed Another Pitcher And Thats Not Gonna Happen.

saltyweeks

July 28th, 2012
3:38 pm

The price teams want for these guys who will be FAs is crazy, considering they will only be in a few games. If folks keep mentioning the Tex deal they should! DOB is right, except I would be even more reluctant to trade for anyone without another year on their contract. If you put Medlen in then, frankly, we’ll probably end up the season within one or two games of where we would have anyway.

That Tex trade continues to haunt us. Let Medlen start, find a bench bat and let’s just play ball.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:38 pm

Lets all do a Liberty Media bashing for the whole night campaign…….Just so they here us loud, and clear…..

Ward — that beats a Wren or Fredi bashing. More accurate.

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:39 pm

Not many top line starters are going to top out at 90. Everyone used to harp and harp about the radar gun being over-rated when we had Maddux and Glavine. Well, not many nibblers can hit spots like Glavine plus he could get it up there a little quicker than 90. As for maddux he never threw a ball the same speed to a batter and none of them were straight but he could drive nails he was so accurate. These 2 guys don’t count.

Top tier pitchers have velo. Everyhting starts off of the FB which is why Hanson is getting drilled, JJ is done, and Venters isn’t the same.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:40 pm

The future for the Braves isn’t looking so bright anymore.

I couldn’t disagree more. Wren has budget money loosening up this winter, so more play to improve the team. The younger pitchers are good but need time to mature and learn the major league game.

Position-wise, Freeman, Simmons, Prado, McCann, and Heyward are looking pretty solid. Uggla is streaky, though I think he’ll come close to hitting his norms this season and moving forward.

The Braves are a work-in-progress, in many respects. I think the team is moving in the right direction, overall.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:40 pm

Well, thought I would add my contribution now.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:40 pm

Wow — Have you seen what that team has done the last 3 yrs. Especially this yr.

Those championshisp were 5 and 8 yrs ago respectively. They have spent poorly and spent on guys who spend more time on the DL than on the field.

iTiSi

July 28th, 2012
3:42 pm

A little off topic, but still baseball. About fell out of my chair last night when Bud Selig said he was advocating some additional video replay starting next season. I thought surely he would go to his grave saying “NO” to that. He says he is working on the guidelines for replays on two additional items. One is “fair or foul ball drives down right and left field lines, and the other we are all familiar with from just the other night, the “is it a trap or a catch” in the outfield. Hopefull that will open the door to even more replays, like bad calls at 2B on steals which have hurt the Braves this year, and close calls at home plate.

Wow

July 28th, 2012
3:42 pm

They can keep putting off all they want, but sooner or later, the Braves are going to have to get a front-line starter. No one on the staff or the minors even comes close to resembling one.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:42 pm

With the price of free agents the way they are now the Braves will get outbid for the better talent available & we have one guy in Bourn who is likely to walk.

No way we pay him in the high teens of mil for 5 yrs. Some one else will pay though.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:43 pm

Wow — They will not spend the $$$$$$$$$ to get a frnt line SP.

MEB

July 28th, 2012
3:43 pm

As usual great stuff DOB!

GO BRAVES!!! (Sign Michael Bourn)

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:43 pm

I’m not arguing that the Red Sox don’t have big problems.

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:45 pm

All Braves fans should got to the ball park with Anti Liberty Media signs, and that would get their attension.

Jim Hertel

July 28th, 2012
3:45 pm

Good update David. I agree, Grenke was too much to give up and not a sure thing. There may not be any sure things out there. This is baseball, but our internal options are just as good. However, I may be alone, but I would not be adverse to including Tehran in a blockbuster trade. He looks like the second-coming of Bruce Chen to me.

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:45 pm

Chipper is a great player and I’ve enjoyed watching him but the idea that the Braves somehow owe him and must trade away top prospects for a chance to just make the playoffs amazes me. He has been compensated very fairly for his great play and making stupid trades shouldn’t be extra compensation for a HOFer.

Ralph

July 28th, 2012
3:46 pm

DOB – I like your last option best, in fact it is the only option I like, I wouldn’t trade Delgado and Minor for all those other pitchers you mentioned. Please excuse me now I just saw todays line-up and I have to go to the bathroom and Puke, Uggla

NickGranite

July 28th, 2012
3:47 pm

We have high 3 and 4+ ERA guys already. If you can’t get a shutdown pitcher with a reasonably good shot at winning two playoff games every playoff series, it’s kind of pointless to waste top prospects. For what? To get snuffed out by McDonald at Pittsburgh in a one game wildcard playoff? The only two left as you mentioned are ” cough” Josh Johnson “cough” and King Felix and they seem unavailable so basically, we’re kind of stuck with what we got. That’s not terrible, some seasons are for seasoning prospects as you get better and this is a pretty good team except…I’m afraid the line-up might take a step back next year with Chipper and likely Bourn gone even while our young pitchers are getting better.

Jeff R

July 28th, 2012
3:47 pm

All Braves fans should got to the ball park with Anti Liberty Media signs, and that would get their attension.

Okay. You organize it, Ward.

ChattTownBrian

July 28th, 2012
3:47 pm

We might very well end up with a Kevin Corriea type. Don’t say ya’ll haven’t been warned. Wren’s head is probably spinning about now after missing out on Dempster and Greinke. His knee is a jerkin’ real hard, folks.

Bama Brave

July 28th, 2012
3:47 pm

I Will Be Shocked If Bourn Returns Next Year!

Ward

July 28th, 2012
3:48 pm

Anyways, good talking, and will talk later tonight……..Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”

JoeFan

July 28th, 2012
3:49 pm

Insert Medlen into the rotation, find another decent bat and upgrade the bullpen if possible. Then in the offseason, where there is time and flexibility, restructure the team. I would much rather see the Braves competitive for the next 8-10 years than mortgaging the future for maybe a playoff spot now.

shawn

July 28th, 2012
3:49 pm

Thanks DOB, great stuff as always….

Jerry

July 28th, 2012
3:49 pm

Thanks DOB for the stat breakdown on Greinke. Something just didn’t sit right with me with that guy. Glad the Angels took care it for us.

old man

July 28th, 2012
3:50 pm

If I could pick between pot luck on a new owner, versus a market rate TV contract, I would take the latter. There is something not kosher about that deal. Why do we hear nothing about how it happened?

njbraves

July 28th, 2012
3:50 pm

I don’t like LM, but payroll is not a huge problem for this team. Cards don’t have a huge payroll, Giants didn’t at the time they won the WS either. TB’s payroll is much lower than Atlanta’s, and they’re a contender every year. I’d love more flexibility, but it’s not as big as so many think.

Pace

July 28th, 2012
3:53 pm

Getting a #1 SP for the stretch run would be great

Giving up 3 of our top 4 prospects – not so great

Making an all out run to give Chipper a WS in his final season would be a great “Feel Good” story

Mortgaging the future of the team – not the best move this team can make.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:53 pm

What we have in house is better than Kevin Corriera.

But I get what you are saying CTB.

Felix

July 28th, 2012
3:53 pm

I was disappointed that we didn’t get Greinke, but agree that we don’t want to mortgage our future for 10 starts. I was also hoping against hope that Fredi would sit Uggla today.

Does anyone in this wide, wide world of sports understand why Wren signed Batista? Batista must be old enough to be Julio Franco’s uncle.

ChattTownBrian

July 28th, 2012
3:53 pm

I can hear McCann spinning a Corriea trade right now – “he’s an innings eater and knows this league. Guy’s got awesome stuff when he’s on. He’s been around this game for a while now and he’s very underrated and we’re excited to have him on board”.

Graham

July 28th, 2012
3:54 pm

At this point I’d make a big offer for King Felix (Teheran + Delgado + 2 of Lipka/Ahmed/Cunningham/ Kubitza etc or even Salcedo if it would seal the deal) and get them to throw in League. Assuming that didn’t come to pass I feel like picking up Matt Belisle and/or Rafael Betancourt from Colorado for the pen and put Medlen back in the rotation

Ralph

July 28th, 2012
3:55 pm

The money we would have to pay a Greinke or J.Johnson would buy us an All Star 3rd baseman to replace Chipper or it would cover the cost of sitting Uggla on the bench where he belongs, actually he belongs somewhere else but I doubt that is possible.

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:56 pm

Bama

Bourn is already gone. Too few leadoff guys out there that can defend and steal bases. No real spark plug kinda guys out there. He is the closest thing and will demand a Kings ransom. Much more than the Braves will or should pay. I say should because he Ks too often and he’ll bet a long, expensive deal. His production will begin to decline soon but he’ll be getting paid big for a long time. He’s 30 I believe and he’ll start losing a step soon.

Don’t get me wrong. I like him here for now but I believe whoever gets him will regret it down the line.

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:57 pm

Old Man — We really need both. With the apprciation of franchise value the only way we can get new ownership is if that contract is bought out. LM will make plenty of $$$$$$$$$, how much would it take to buy it out, 100 mil, 150 mil????

With the TV deal the Braves are not an attractive investment for the most passionate baseball billionaire with the deepent pockets.

So we are stuck, And what is this going to be in late decade????? Are we going to be behind Pittsburgh and KC in a few yrs ???????? It could be.

BravesFanInNashville

July 28th, 2012
3:57 pm

I love the fact that the Braves haven’t made a deal yet. I think their best option based on price in prospects to land a pitcher is Kris Medlen. I don’t like the thought of signing a pitcher to $ 100 Million plus and that’s what it would take to have made a Grienke trade make sense. I think we stay the course and not jump at a big name right now. Medlen was 11-1 as a starter for the Braves before he got hurt. Maybe he’ll be a spark to the rotation and if Sheets can finish the year with no injuries we might be OK and will have held on to the most coveted commodity in the game which is pitching.
Let’s put the money we would have offered Grienke to better use and sign Micheal Bourne and put a difference maker on the field every day instead of every 5th day.

tulsabravo

July 28th, 2012
3:57 pm

Great call Dave on Sugar, but I would have gone with, “If I Can’t Change Your Mind.” “Copper Blue” is absolutely amazing.

Lawton

July 28th, 2012
3:59 pm

how about……….

Tommy Hanson plus something for James Shields?????

If adding a front of the rotation guy with some team control, I’d rather deal Tommy than Delgado, Minor or Teheran. Tommy will make something like $7.5M next season, Adding a guy that makes $9M to $12M on top of Tommy’s $7.5M will leave very little flexibility to pursue a CFer and/or resign Sheets.

bvillebaron

July 28th, 2012
3:59 pm

.Thanks for bringing some sanity to these trade discussions, Dave. Can you make sure Schultz reads it?

Davet

July 28th, 2012
3:59 pm

Enter your comments here

Disgusted

July 28th, 2012
3:59 pm

Micheal Phelps deserves to be Booed. He is a BUMB.

Again, Kudos to the Women’s soccer team.

Mark

July 28th, 2012
3:59 pm

We won big the last two games Uggla sat. Maybe it wasn’t due to the replacements performance but they were still big wins.

I’m for a precautionary sitting from that beaning last week!!!! Prado to 2B and Constanza to left.

Jerry

July 28th, 2012
4:00 pm

How could anyone feel sorry for Chipper Jones? The man has been to the playoffs for more than a decade in his career and has been to 3 world series with one ring to show for it. When he’s not playing baseball, he sits at his ranch and rolls in his dough. Nope, Chipper Jones doesn’t need anyone feeling sorry for him. Damn sure wouldn’t give the farm away in an effort to get Chipper back to playoffs while foregoing years of having a competitive team in Atlanta. Dumb!

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
4:02 pm

That is a good point. We could put Meds in the rotation and get a solid 7th, 8th inning guy. I love Meds, but he is not the ace type pitcher we need to lead our rotation into the next couple of years. But, it isn’t a bad plan B.

bvillebaron

July 28th, 2012
4:02 pm

Lawton:

Shields isn’t a better pitcher than Hanson so why would you trade Hanson AND someone eles for him. Take a look at his numbers this yearand for his career.

JasonInFL

July 28th, 2012
4:04 pm

Lawton, not a bad idea, but I bet the Rays are thinking the same thing…they want young, controllable prospects and not someone who like Tommy.

Add your comment