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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,926 comments Add your comment
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:57 pm
I get it…It’s not just the numbers…it’s Shaun’s numbers that tell the whole story. And remember, kids, there’s no such thing as “clutch”.
Memphis
July 26th, 2012
4:59 pm
If Teheran was as good as people make him out to be, he’d have beaten out Minor and Delgado for a roster spot in the Spring.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:59 pm
jacked-up looking basement-dweller dude
Watch-it dude you could easily offend someone here with those comments!!
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
5:00 pm
tony austin, who cares how many times a leadoff hitter whiffs, as long as he’s getting on base at a high rate?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 26th, 2012
5:00 pm
Fredi Gonzalez quote:
It was such an impressive performance that Gonzalez said Medlen has once again thrust himself into consideration for a spot in the starting rotation if the Braves fail to acquire another starter before Tuesday’s now-waiver trade deadline.
So why do I get that fuzzy feeling again……….said manager and GM are not on the same page?
One of these guys wants Medlen in the rotation. The other, not so much.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
5:00 pm
Everyone thinks Teheran, Delgado and Minor are Maddux,Glavine an Smoltz Part 2.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone but you mention that collection of players in the same breath.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
5:01 pm
Memphis
If I wasn’t going home I’d continue this pointless conversation that wouldn’t change your mind… Oh well it would’ve been fun
Off to see Delgado vs Longoria!!
CB
July 26th, 2012
5:01 pm
Hey!
Memphis
July 26th, 2012
5:02 pm
Don’t trade them for a rental, dont trade them for a rental. Dont trade them for Dempster, dont trade them for Grienke, Dont trade them for Garza. You have to trade someone…….You cant trade “garbage”
old man
July 26th, 2012
5:02 pm
I hope Uggla goes 5 for 5 with two dingers and 6 RBIs in the next game. Then, before each game, he can put on his helmet and get one teammate to knock the crap out of his head with a bat, to replicate the hit he took in the last game. Whatever works.
old man
July 26th, 2012
5:03 pm
Yep, just say no to rentals.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
5:05 pm
raleighbravefan, not “my” numbers. The numbers that matter are the ones that matter. The ones that don’t, don’t.
Memphis, Teheran is 21. Minor is 24. Delgado is 22. Just because Minor and Delgado beat out Teheran in Spring Training doesn’t mean they have more potential. And potential is what a team would be trading for in any sort of deal the Braves would make.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:06 pm
It actually might be easier to the division than the WC. Won’t happen without a couple of big additions though.
Start rooting against the Bucs starting tonight. Cards are going to go on a run and that team will either win their division or gain one of the wildcard berths. BTW, the Reds just quietly go about their business and win games also. Two really solid teams in the Central.
Dodgers going to get better as well. Braves really have no course but to improve the team right now picking up some help.
Oh yeah, grab Scott Hairston.
tony austin
July 26th, 2012
5:06 pm
I’d rather see him put the ball in play and have a chance to beat out a grounder or get on base via the error. Can’t do that with the strike out unless coupled with a wild pitch, but how often does that happen?
Danga
July 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
Everyone thinks Teheran, Delgado and Minor are Maddux,Glavine an Smoltz Part 2. Not even close.
Have you bothered to look at the first couple of seasons from Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz? Dudes were rather dreadful.
ChattTownBrian
July 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
Sometimes when I read stuff here I think of the scarecrow singing “if I only had a brain”.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 26th, 2012
5:08 pm
Mike Minor is starting to come into his own, Delgado is back of the rotation material, and Teheran is either hurt or nowhere near ready to pitch in the big leagues.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 26th, 2012
5:10 pm
Maddux,Glavine and Smoltz are going to Cooperstown. Their is no comparison, period.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:10 pm
“Mike Minor is starting to come into his own, Delgado is back of the rotation material, and Teheran is either hurt or nowhere near ready to pitch in the big leagues.”
Agree with the first part. If both of these guys start for the Braves this season off season will start at the end of September.
ChattTownBrian
July 26th, 2012
5:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMPkqI3ncGM
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:11 pm
people on ludes should not type.
remainder of the season that is
DAP
July 26th, 2012
5:16 pm
hasnt minor been “starting to come into his own” a couple times already this season?
i wouldnt argue with anyone that he will turn out to be a pretty good pitcher, but how does anyone know itll stick this time?
Danga
July 26th, 2012
5:18 pm
All future performance is predicted by the results of the previous 4 games played.
Scoots
July 26th, 2012
5:18 pm
Seriously – start stretching out Medlin
old man
July 26th, 2012
5:18 pm
Here are the first MLB years for Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux:
SMOLTZ (DID OK HIS SECOND YEAR)
W L SV G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% ERA FIP WAR
2 7 0 12 12 64.0 5.20 4.64 1.41 .298 72.6 % 5.48 5.28 -0.3
GLAVINE
W L SV G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% ERA FIP WAR
2 4 0 9 9 50.1 3.58 5.90 0.89 .282 67.9 % 5.54 5.51 0.1
7 17 0 34 34 195.1 3.87 2.90 0.55 .279 63.1 % 4.56 3.80 2.2
MADDUX
W L SV G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% ERA FIP WAR
2 4 0 6 5 31.0 5.81 3.19 0.87 .376 69.5 % 5.52 3.90 0.4
6 14 0 30 27 155.2 5.84 4.28 0.98 .325 62.9 % 5.61 4.50 1.8
Looks to me like they took a lot of maturing to get noticed.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
5:18 pm
OK Shaun. I realize that you are the arbiter of important numbers. I’m outta here.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:21 pm
Huddy, Hanson, Sheets, Minor, Delgado
Huddy, Hanson, Sheets, Minor, Medlen
Huddy, Hanson, Sheets, Minor, Jurrjens
All 3 rotations= 3rd in Wilcard race
optimist
July 26th, 2012
5:22 pm
Minor would have been better before QuesTec. Now, a lot harder.
Efrim
July 26th, 2012
5:24 pm
No middle reliever is going to have the impact a starter would.
If the Braves are going for it – they need a starter. Sure, insert Medlen into the rotation and grab Jon Broxton, but that isn’t going to do the job like getting a starter would.
If Greinke and Dempster go and aren’t available any longer, then I guess we cross our fingers and go with Medlen and Sheets. Sigh….
TennesseePaul
July 26th, 2012
5:25 pm
Have you bothered to look at the first couple of seasons from Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz? Dudes were rather dreadful.
Smoltz wasn’t. He was bad in his first call up, 12 games in the second half of 1988. But the next year he was rather solid. 2.94 ERA, 209 IP, 1.115 WHIP
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 26th, 2012
5:27 pm
Personally I think Frank Wren is delusional if he thinks that adding Zack Grienke guarantees winning this division. I’m totally convinced this team can compete for one one of the wild card slots, but they are not gonna catch the Nationals no what what trade is made. The rational course of action is to go after something more affordable, like the Twins Francisco Liriano.
Such trade all but guarantees a wild card without breaking the bank or emptying the farm system.
old man
July 26th, 2012
5:27 pm
Those charts never post correctly, but you can figure them out if you sqwint your eyes. Anyway, Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux all had big time losing records for their first one or two MLB seasons, and ERAs in the 5.50 range. These are for ages 20 and 21 on Maddux, 21 for Smoltz, and 21 and 22 for Glavine. So they really did not get even decent until age 22 or 23.
Delgado is 22, Teheran 21. Just sayin’.
cricket
July 26th, 2012
5:27 pm
Cards 2 back for WC
ACE
July 26th, 2012
5:28 pm
I know that Dude.
David O'Brien
July 26th, 2012
5:29 pm
Not even an update from DOB……..sad…… — Ward
So the 40-inch Chipper story I wrote after getting home from the airport doesn’t do anything for ya, huh? Want the same trade speculation, same names thrown around, same Greinke-could-cost-this-much talk when the Braves haven’t said anything new about trade market since Frank discussed the situation yesterday?
Braves have interest in Greinke, lot of interest. But right now, price is huge and several other teams are also in on him. Braves have also expressed interest in Shields. Not Garza or Liriano.
I’ll let you know when I hear something new worth reporting on trade front. In meantime, too tired to just speculate wildly.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
5:31 pm
raleighbravefan, Correlation and logic are the arbiter of which numbers are important and which are not. You think I just pay attention and point to numbers that I like or that if fine cute or whatever. I’m paying attention to the ones that help me glean information.
It’s meaningless to just pick and choose numbers you like or that tradition claims are important. They need to be providing you with some information or else they are useful.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:31 pm
Coach- you might be a little delusional if thinking this current staff will hold on a wildcard spot. Not going to happen, close but no stoogie
DAP
July 26th, 2012
5:31 pm
efrim No middle reliever is going to have the impact a starter would.
no, but they will have some impact, and if you cant get a starter, some impact is better than none.
i actually think a reliever or two like broxton and some bench help could propel this team.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
5:32 pm
They need to be providing you with some information or else they are useful….that last word should be useless.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:38 pm
This friggin deadline can’t come quick enough.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:41 pm
18 hits for the Redbirds. When that pitching catches up and becomes consistent with their offense(and it will), that team is going to be lethal. Cardinals back to back Series wins very much a possibility.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
5:42 pm
yeah, this is a yearly ritual. throw around a lot of big names, have extensive debates about how each would do, and then watch then sign a bench player or two.
Frankie
July 26th, 2012
5:45 pm
Michael Bourn last season?
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
5:46 pm
If I had to guess, I would guess that Michael is gone after this year
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
5:47 pm
Lew (and the other guy who agreed with him): The Marlins are telling teams Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle are off-limits, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports. They feel committed to Buehrle and believe Reyes will play better now that Hanley Ramirez has been traded.
uga-brave
July 26th, 2012
5:55 pm
if not now when?
there are zero guarantees going forward. braves may not be in this position again going forward.
go for it. none of know what the real payroll will be like next season or the season after.
would be a crime shame to waste the bourn prado combo at the top, a dominant closer, and a lineup that i think could do damage in the postseason.
toss those frickin water wings off and dive in head first.
jfp
July 26th, 2012
5:55 pm
It’s not a shame that the Dempster trade was leaked or that we didn’t get him. What is a shame is that Dempster told the Cubs that he had a second choice and there was really only one choice. Sounds like he may have told the Cubs something without getting permission from someone else and got mad at them for following through with the parameters he set.
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
5:59 pm
For those interested, Heyman’s current take on the Greinke sweepstakes:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19662670/greinke-derby-should-be-a-doozy-rangers-braves-chisox-angels-dodgers-etc
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:01 pm
I’m glad the trade didn’t go threw. I really like Delgado and we have him for 5 more seasons. Keith Law said it would have been a great trade by the Cubs.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
6:03 pm
I’m just as glad that it didn’t go through too
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
6:03 pm
Headline on NYTimes.conm:
Mets turn the collapse into an art form”
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
6:03 pm
“
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
6:04 pm
com
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:07 pm
It will take alot to get Grienke and I wouldn’t complain one bit if we made it to the World Series. But say we don’t even win the division and have a early playoff exit after trading for him. Huge Losers in the deal. Then to make it worse regardless of how much both sides he goes else where to the big bucks.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:08 pm
*like each other**
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
6:09 pm
huge loser only if he is not extended
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:13 pm
Half Empty
I don’t know about that. NL Champions is a huge step from where we’ve been the past few years. I’d consider it a win. The Braves would make alot more money with that kind of post season. Possibly bumping the payroll up some. Also would make us a clear cut contender going forward which is attractive to top free agents.
Kat
July 26th, 2012
6:15 pm
Really hoping I don’t experience my first tornado tonight…..weather not too pretty up north.
Powderfinger
July 26th, 2012
6:16 pm
The more I think about this, I believe it might be best to move Medlen to the rotation, and find a comparable reliever available through a trade. Let everyone else scurry about after Greinke, etc. while we find an overlooked bullpen arm for a somewhat reasonable price. Combined with a returning Moylan, that could prove worthwhile. If possible, Jurrjens would hopefully be part of such a deal. It ain’t working here, and a change of scenery might do him good…
Ray
July 26th, 2012
6:17 pm
Personally I think Bourn is long gone and will be with the Nat’s next year for something crazy like 13-15m a year. The Washington Boras’ will continue to make sure their payroll grows.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:17 pm
Think about it… We’d have Grienke and Bourn as our top Free Agents. Just no way we could keep both unless we fill our bench and bullpen with min salary players, and roll with a platoon in LF… The Brewers already offered Grienke 100 million over 5 years… I’m willing to bet other teams will offer more. Definitely after Hamels getting 144 million for 6 years..
Powderfinger
July 26th, 2012
6:19 pm
I forgot to mention that Jurrjens would only be a minor piece of the deal, with little downside for the other team, since they can non-tender him if they’re not enthralled…
UNCBrave
July 26th, 2012
6:24 pm
2. Braves. The Braves like Greinke very much, and another positive, he is said to like them, as well, a big plus after their bad experience of being blown off by Ryan Dempster (who they expected to approve the deal to Atlanta). Greinke is said by one person close to him to actually love the idea of Atlanta long-term, as the Braves have been consistent winners (a big thing for him, though apparently not so much for Dempster) and it doesn’t hurt that they train in his hometown of Orlando. The Braves have a very nice crop of big-time pitching prospects, including Randall Delgado, who was all set to go to Chicago for Dempster.
Greinke WANTS to be a BRAVE….MAKE IT HAPPEN WREN!
BFChris27
July 26th, 2012
6:25 pm
The Cubs are moving closer to sending Dempster to the Dodgers and are discussing various trades including a multi-team deal, tweets David Kaplan of CSNChicago.com.
Bama Brave
July 26th, 2012
6:31 pm
I Agree UNC Brave! Reel Him In…………………..
Ray
July 26th, 2012
6:31 pm
There are a lot of us clamoring for Wren to go get Greinke. Most of us realize its going to cost a LOT in terms of prospects and its going to be a lot of dollars as well. So IF this happens and is a reality don’t go crazy bashing the braves for pulling the trigger. Especially if Greinke in year 3 or 4 here, suffers an injury or falls off. You can’t be all for it now and then if it doesn’t workout perfectly talk about what an idiot Wren was for making the deal. The prospect/player cost doesn’t bother me. Its the long term dollars is what bothers me.
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:33 pm
I seriously doubt that at the age our young pitchers are now, anyone realized that Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux would win 7 Cy Young Awards or be HOF inductees five years after they retired.
And even if they don’t turn into a clone of those three, what they could definitely provide is the nucleus of a pretty damned good starting rotation – even if it is the middle or end of said rotation.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:34 pm
James Shields would be the guy I target, mainly cause he can help us for the next 2 seasons for only 21 million. The guy is a workhorse who has pitched over 200 Innings in 5 consecutive seasons (6 after 2012) and has pitched in the AL East his whole career and has produced a 4.00 ERA in his career.
Plus the rest of his contract is options, so we wouldn’t be on the hook if something bad was too happen like a major injury or decline. We would just have to do the buyout.
But yes he likely will cost the most to get only behind Josh Johnson.
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:40 pm
OnlyBRaves – Not that I was really all that serious or care about that deal, but two days ago they claimed that it was Reyes and Johnson that were off limits. The next day they were taking offers on Josh, too. Jeff Luria would sell his mother and her house if enough was offered.
jfp
July 26th, 2012
6:42 pm
Lew,
Jeff Luria would sell his mother and her house if enough was offered.
With her in it as well.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:44 pm
The Brewers are thought to rank Braves right-hander Julio Teheran ahead of Randall Delgado and Mike Minor, according to Haudricourt. The Brewers want pitchers who can contribute at the MLB level soon.
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:44 pm
And honestly, the only reason that Reyes is untouchabkle is because no one would be stupid enough to take on that absurd contract.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:46 pm
Lew
Plus, it would make future free agents not wanna sign there long term.
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:46 pm
They want pitchers who will be contributing soon as opposed to those who are already contributing?
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:47 pm
VaBraves – That bird flew the coop some time ago – it’s why they had to overpay all the Free Agents who DID come there.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:49 pm
Jeff Luria would sell his mother and her house if enough was offered.
LOL….he definitely is the guy that would do it!
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:49 pm
Yeah, true as well.
uga-brave
July 26th, 2012
6:50 pm
some on here severely underestimate what most of these franchises earn. price of poker will continue
higher.
either ante up or go play bingo.
Trader Jack
July 26th, 2012
6:51 pm
Lew
The Marlins are a volcano waiting to explode. Watch what happens within the next 6 months
Bravesfaninnc
July 26th, 2012
6:51 pm
I don’t know about the rest of you guys but if I am the Braves I rather trade Julio Teheran then Randall Delgado. While Teheran rank higher then Delgado as far prospect goes I think that Delgado when it all set and done with. That he and not Tehran is going to be a much better pitcher .Teheran in a way remind of me of Andy Marte who at one time couple of years ago he was the Braves number one prospect and he turn out to be a major bust.
Jerry
July 26th, 2012
6:51 pm
I agree with Lew. You can’t expect Teheran/Minor/Delgado to be like Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz. But, given a little time they could be as good as Zito/Mulder/Hudson. I’d take that.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
6:53 pm
How much does team success effect a team’s payroll?
Lew
July 26th, 2012
6:55 pm
Jerry – Me, too. I think that at the very least Minor and Delgado have shown that they have the potential to be mid rotation pitchers and maybe better than thaf they can develop consistency.
Delgado in particular has suffered to a large extent from lack of run support. He’s pitched 9 games where he gave up three or fewer earned runs and had a loss or no decision.
Ray
July 26th, 2012
6:55 pm
VA, I agree with you in regards to Shields but I don’t see the Ray’s making a move because they feel they are still in the hunt.
ChattTownBrian
July 26th, 2012
6:56 pm
UNCBrave, i’m with you man. Greinke wants to be here and that does mean something. It’s a guy easier to root for than somebody who’d rather be somewhere else, but will settle for our team for now.
uga-brave
July 26th, 2012
6:57 pm
heard somewhere of the last 435 pitchers that the Orioles have drafted only one has won more then 15 games in a season in the show.
ChattTownBrian
July 26th, 2012
7:00 pm
Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. At least with a pitcher like Greinke you know exactly what you’re getting and you can build around that. Also he’s still young, room to improve. Halladay wasn’t great until a little bit later in his career. Just an example.
brian
July 26th, 2012
7:00 pm
DOB – loved the CHipper story. Hope he continues to be around the Braves and spend time in spring training after he retires.
This team really does seem to respond to him. You have well documented earlier in the season record with Chipper and without Chipper. The team also seems to feed off a good at bat or a good fielding play by Chipper.
I loved reading that Chipper “Papa” Jones is embracing his role in teaching the younger players. The guys are lucky to play with and learn from the future Hall of Famer.
Ray
July 26th, 2012
7:01 pm
How much is too much to pay for Greinke? Prospect and money wise. We know the price is going to start at Teheran AND about 22m a yr. What is too much and what happens if the braves get bumped out of the wildcard game with or without Greinke? What is your mindset?
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
7:01 pm
Ray
Yep, still doesn’t hurt to try. I would offer Teheran as the main in piece in a deal for Shields. TB would have to be overwhelmed. I’m kinda amazed that they would even consider moving him. Just based on what he has produced and for the cost… 2 more seasons for only 21 million…. Well below Market value for a effective 200+ inning pitcher.
ChattTownBrian
July 26th, 2012
7:03 pm
I just had that feeling when I read Delgado for Dempster of just blah. I understood it as a now move, but reading more you realized the Cubs are where his heart it, and the Dodgers, so it would definitely be a rental in my eyes. Greinke has said a while back that he’s always liked the Braves. Smoltz was his idol as a kid. Much better shot at keeping him around for a while.
Jerry
July 26th, 2012
7:04 pm
And I like what I’ve seen from Minor over his last 3 starts. My biggest problem with him before was the way in which he seemed to fold his tent whenever he was faced with a bad situation. But lately, he has buckled down and weathered the storm. And who’s to say that Minor doesn’t turn in the kinda second half that Smoltz did in 1991? Delgado has the ability and we’ve all seen that. As Lew said he hasn’t had the run support. It has caused him to tighten up at bad times and cost him big time. He will learn quickly that he can’t control what his teammates do, or don’t do. Teheran is not a favorite of mine, but he is young as hell and I don’t wanna get rid of him just to make the playoffs this year. And I know a lot of people don’t think much of Gilmartin, but I wanna see him up here in a couple of years too. Leave the pitchers alone and get some offensive help.
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
7:05 pm
Since the Braves only have around a 90 million payroll the most I’d pay Grienke is around 17 million a season. I would pay 20 million on a shorter deal tho.
I do have to bring this up again. The Braves did dish out 4 years 60 million to Derek Lowe who was 36 years old. Grienke is only 28 years old and considered a borderline ace and would easily be our best starter.
Bama Brave
July 26th, 2012
7:06 pm
Im Telling You All That James Shields Will Stay In The America League……
phil
July 26th, 2012
7:06 pm
What do we think the Braves net Liberty Media each season? After all bills are paid. What’s left for their bottom line?
VaBravesFan
July 26th, 2012
7:07 pm
If the Braves were to make it to the World Series that would be a huge boost in revenue.
Ray
July 26th, 2012
7:08 pm
VA I agree with you. I am sure that the Braves and Rays have been on the phone. The call may have gone like this: Wren, is Shields available and what will it take? Ray’s: We have not decided if we are sellers yet but the fee is going to start at Delgado and Teheran.
Ray
July 26th, 2012
7:11 pm
I think it will take around 23-25m a year for Greinke. Now I wish the braves would only go a max of 4 yrs. I just don’t see him going for that.
phil
July 26th, 2012
7:11 pm
Avg year…no WS
Jerry
July 26th, 2012
7:13 pm
You all may be shyt outta luck if you think Shields is gonna be traded. With the injury to A-Rod and the expected return of Evan Longoria, The Rays have said they expect to be in a playoff race for at least one of the wildcard spots. Shields is a big part of that team.