Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,926 comments Add your comment
tony austin
July 26th, 2012
3:51 pm
From an incident last year I believe and yesterday, Dempster may not be in full control of his emotions.
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
3:52 pm
I’d take 4 or 5 years of Greinke over 5 years of any young pitcher we have if they think they can afford it
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
3:54 pm
Just not sure what the Halos expected when they made that deal. @Danga
hope springs eternal, I guess
DS1
July 26th, 2012
3:54 pm
I hate off days……….
cricket
July 26th, 2012
3:54 pm
Any good moves cubs make will be credited to Theo and any gaffes will be Hoyer’s fault. Bank On It.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
3:55 pm
scoots – I understand what yoou are saying, but uyou are also assuming the new pitcher would win 3 games which would be otherwise lost…entirely possible, but still a big assumption.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
3:55 pm
Actually the Astros have scored fewer runs than the Rangers.
Pardon me. That certainly changes my point, doesn’t it?
Also, what pitching woes? The Rangers have one of the best pitching staffs in the American League
Had.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
3:55 pm
If Wren can master a package like he did for Bourn on Greinke? I would accept the trade with out giving your farm.
TennesseePaul
July 26th, 2012
3:56 pm
Just not sure what the Halos expected when they made that deal.
Wasn’t long after that Tony Reagins abruptly resigned from his post.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
3:56 pm
To be fair, as well, Dempster hasn’t said “no” yet either. Officially, he hasn’t vetoed the trade. He’s just taking his time agreeing.
MFin04 is right. Based on reports, the Braves pulled their initial offer when Dempster didn’t approve (whether he vetoed it or not), so there is no trade on the table at this point. (See Capitol Avenue Club’s timeline of how this all went down. Yes, they had a source through all this.)
The process would have to start all over between the two clubs, and Dempster would have to give his approval on a new trade. Seems like the only chance the Braves have at getting Dempster is if a) they are unable to trade for any other pitcher and b) the Dodgers are unwilling to give up much of anything for Dempster or the Cubs demand too much.
But it seems the Cubs and Dodgers are working things out and the Cubs will take what they can get. I mean at this point what other choice do the Cubs have? Unless the Dodgers aren’t willing to offer them anything, they’ll probably take what they can get from them.
kenhotlanta
July 26th, 2012
3:56 pm
VJ: Where is your better half? I haven’t seen her lovely self around lately.
Also, haven’t seen nolie in a couple of days, either. (Not implying anything between those two, however.)
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 26th, 2012
3:56 pm
Off days are boring as heck…especially when you didn’t see the game the day before, and the day before that Ross started…
And ick—today’s the anniversary of that 19-inning game. Let’s never go there again!…
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
3:57 pm
the new pitcher would win 3 games which would be otherwise lost…entirely possible, but still a big assumption
Wasn’t that what you guys were speaking of? If not, my bad.
Danga
July 26th, 2012
3:57 pm
Hanson has not been very good. JJ no longer looks like a major league pitcher. Minor has looked good recently, but he had a first half that was quite scary. Hudson has this ankle thing which doesn’t seem to be affecting him too much right now. Sheets has been out of baseball for over a season.
I think the Braves definitely need a guy they can pencil into one of those slots and be reasonably assured of a good performance. I think it would go a LONG way to making this team legit contenders for the NL pennant.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
3:57 pm
I was for Dempster big time, until Dempsters no trade clause crap. Then he couldn’t make up his mind, and Wren moved from that, so did I……
cricket
July 26th, 2012
3:57 pm
only robots are in full control of their emotions, because they have none..until off course skynet comes online
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
3:58 pm
ncscoots, well I guess it all depends on whether you put stock in to one month of performance from a baseball team or four months of performance.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
3:59 pm
Off days suck , because we probably wont hear any thing on trades too.
cricket
July 26th, 2012
3:59 pm
I hate off days……….
volunteer somewhere, donate your time
DS1
July 26th, 2012
4:00 pm
I’d rather create a package for Headley than for Greinke. We are going to need the bat next year, and it surely couldn’t hurt this go around.
Go out and get a good bullpen arm and move Medlen back to the rotation if you don’t think Delgado or Teheran can handle it.
monty
July 26th, 2012
4:02 pm
Personally I don’t view Greinke as a magic bullet, get us over the hump kind of guy. Be a nice addition to a good rotation but not the center piece, after all it took the guy 7 big league seasons to finally have more wins than losses.Outside of one spectacular year a few years ago, he’s just been a good pitcher, not great. Not a guy that you want to build around. HIs first 24 starts in the bigs his periphials were very close to Delgado’s. Interesting. I’d wager money that it won’t take Delgado 7 years before his wins total more than his losses.
DS1
July 26th, 2012
4:02 pm
cricket
Actually, I am stuck in the Toronto airport……… Just perusing the internet and people watching. Been here 2 hours, with about 3.5 left to wait. At this rate, I’ll be home at 1am.
Jeff R
July 26th, 2012
4:02 pm
Enter your comments here
TennesseePaul
July 26th, 2012
4:04 pm
but still a big assumption.
Actually, in his assumption he stated a .500 record for the position Greinke would hold and a 3 games above .500 position with Greinke holding it. The team is currently 7 games under .500 when Delgado pitches. So his assumption was rather generous to Delgado.
Fine Print: My statement above is not a statement “giving up” on Delgado and in no way reflects my evaluation of Delgado’s talent. It is merely a statement reflecting the current production received in Delgado starts. While I truly believe Delgado could eventually mature into a fine starting pitcher the truth is, right now he averages 5.1 innings a start while the team has gone 5-12 in those starts.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
4:04 pm
we are going to need pitching next year too. Let’s get both.
Jeff R
July 26th, 2012
4:04 pm
Shaun, I see what your saying about the Dempster matter.
Based on your account, Dempster really seems to have only one team on his list: L.A.
DS1
July 26th, 2012
4:05 pm
I’m thinking that Delgado, Minor and Teheran each have a fairly good chance to individually win more games than Greinke over the next 7 years. But Greinke would be better for the stretch run.
I’m a long term guy, so I’d pass on the deal.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
4:06 pm
after all it took the guy 7 big league seasons to finally have more wins than losses monty
yeah in KC. that is a joke, right?
Danga
July 26th, 2012
4:06 pm
Be a nice addition to a good rotation
This is where we disagree. I don’t think we have a good rotation. Ranked 14/16 in NL in ERA and innings pitched. The staff could use some new blood.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:07 pm
Shaun, you can put stock in whatever you desire, that’s your privilege. Allow me the same courtesy, if you would. I no longer bother explaining to you any rationale I have on most subjects, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:07 pm
I hate off days……….
I got something for you to do.
The Durham Bulls play the Gwinnett Braves tonight…
Rehab assignment for Evan Longoria playing for the Rays affiliate the Bulls and Randall Delgado will be pitching for the Braves!!
$6 for lawn seats… Just buy the lawn seats then sit where ever you want. No one checks for tickets unless it’s one of those rare busy nights.
monty
July 26th, 2012
4:07 pm
maybe the team would actually score a few runs for Greinke than they do Delgado, if they would then you might be on to something
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:08 pm
scoots – I guess that was the premis/assumption…My point was that it wasn’t that simple. Next time…well let’s just say that every now and then my wife tells me “why don’t you just shut up”? I guess I should.
Bama Brave
July 26th, 2012
4:08 pm
I Dont Think Meds Wonts To A Starter! Plus He Has More Value In The Pin Like The Last Game…
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
4:09 pm
I’m thinking that Delgado, Minor and Teheran each have a fairly good chance to individually win more games than Greinke over the next 7 years @DS1
I would bet good money that none of them will win more games over the next 5-7 years. In fact I would say there is a fair chance that one or more will be out of MLB by then
DS1
July 26th, 2012
4:09 pm
Crazy
It might be hard getting to the game tonight………… but excellent idea.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:10 pm
My point was that it wasn’t that simple
You’re right, it isn’t.
I try not to let that stop me, though.
DAP
July 26th, 2012
4:11 pm
half empty we are going to need pitching next year too.
not if we get enough hitting.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:12 pm
Lew, there are several areas where the Braves could improve. It’s hard to say the need to improve in some of those areas you mentioned. Sure, I would like the Braves to improve everywhere and anywhere. But the area where it’s easiest to make an impact and the areas that need the most improvement are where they should focus, obviously.
It’s kind of hard to improve the offense, for example, (at least from the perspective of the 8 regulars) because you aren’t likely to find a much better player at any of those positions without also giving up one of those players and more. It would be more counterproductive to do that than it would by trading prospects for pitching (regardless of which pitcher you think the Braves should go after). So do they need to improve the offense simply because it could be better or more consistent or however you want to put it?
Ward, I think Lester would require a team to give up nearly as much as they would for Greinke, perhaps more, because a team would get him at a reasonable price through 2014. Contracts matter a great deal.
Hillbilly
July 26th, 2012
4:12 pm
The process would have to start all over between the two clubs, and Dempster would have to give his approval on a new trade.
Without Delgado involved, wouldn’t you think? I mean, surely the alcohol has worn off by now hasn’t it?
And thank you for the Jed Hoyer thing. I’ve been meaning to throw that one in there after several of these Theo comments.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
4:12 pm
Not even an update from DOB……..sad……
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:13 pm
we are going to need pitching next year too
Especially after Hanson, Medlen, and O’Flaherty are traded.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
4:13 pm
Lester is no way comparable to Greinke…..Lester is good, but not Greinke, and will leave it at that.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:14 pm
CraZy – I wish the game was in Durham…other than that 100+ degree thing we have going today.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:18 pm
We don’t necessarily need an ace…just someone that would be a significant improvement over whoever is our current #5.
Kinda like, I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you (which, unfortunately, I probably can’t, unless it’s Lew or Nolie)
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
4:21 pm
you probably won’t have to feel guilty about outrunning Nolie, he more than likely will have a bazooka in his backpack
monty
July 26th, 2012
4:21 pm
Half Empty-’thats a joke right, Kansas City?”
The guy has a 3.80 lifetime ERA. Good, not ace type numbers. Just shows the desparation for pitching right now.
Imagine what a Maddux would have commanded in todays market.
O.M.G.
July 26th, 2012
4:22 pm
It is more than the W’s and L’s a new pitcher may bring to the club, they also need to go deeper into games, like 7+ vs. the 5+ we have now. Resulting in a more rested bull pen, resulting in better support for the other 4 starts as well.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:22 pm
Ward, I agree that Greinke is better than Lester. But being better is not the only thing that matters in terms of a player’s trade value. Contract matters a great deal too.
Jurickson Profar is no Andrew McCutchen. But the Rangers could probably get close to as much for Profar, if they were to trade him, as the Pirates could get for McCutchen, perhaps even more. That’s entirely because of the contract status of each player.
Jeff R, I think Dempster could be convinced of a trade to the Braves if that were absolutely his last resort and the Cubs handled it carefully. I just don’t see that as likely at all at this point, based on all the reports and events of the last few days.
ncscoots, you can put stock in whatever you like. However at no time in the history of baseball has one month been more telling than four. Therefore, it would be odd to think a team’s performance in one month is more telling than its performance in four.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:22 pm
Imagine what a Maddux would have commanded in todays market.
Six years, $144MM, LOL.
Ward
July 26th, 2012
4:24 pm
All, have a good one! Talk tonight, and Peace my friends……..”Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!” Maybe Wren will get us that bat for the bench too?
cricket
July 26th, 2012
4:25 pm
Miguel Batista is released
Earl Ehrhart
July 26th, 2012
4:25 pm
Enter your comments here How come we are shut out of so many meaningful games on tv. Sports So, Turner used to give us most of the games duri. .ng the year. ie Was we got one, now philly we get one. Its hard to remain a fan when this happens, Don’t the Braves care about tv fans. Earl
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:26 pm
Therefore, it would be odd to think a team’s performance in one month is more telling than its performance in four.
All you need to do is quote me saying that, in this particular context.
You can’t, of course, because I didn’t say that. You made an assumption that I was doing that, and, then made the further incorrect assumption that you were correct, simply because I didn’t bother correcting you.
Think what you wish. If you annoy me enough, I’ll get around to setting you straight. Or not.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
The guy has a 3.80 lifetime ERA.
A 3.79 ERA mostly in the American League, mostly pitching in front of bad defensive teams isn’t bad.
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
Miguel Batista is released @ cricket
30 some walks in 45 innings, it is no wonder
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:30 pm
ncscoots, your posts seemed to imply that the Rangers may feel they aren’t good enough based on their offensive and pitching staffs’ performance in July. My point is simply that I don’t know that they are basing their trade-deadline decisions on July alone. If they trade for Greinke, in other words, I don’t think it’s because July has scared them. If they trade for him, I think it’s more because they lost the last two World Series, one in heartbreaking fashion, and they are desperate to do absolutely everything in their power to win won.
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
4:31 pm
his ERA+ is 115. Lester’s is actually higher @ 120
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
4:33 pm
Pete, I bet you are a pool player, right?
JoeFan
July 26th, 2012
4:33 pm
Strengthen the bullpen, improve the bench, insert Medlen / Delgado into the rotation, remove JJ / Hanson from the rotation, go after Greinke in the offseason. The Braves are better short and long-term.
monty
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
Shaun -”mostly pitching in front of bad defensive teams isn’t bad.
Shaun, did you notice I said he was good? Never mentioned bad. Maybe you aren’t implying that I said that. He’s a good – very good pitcher. I gave him credit. Just not an ace. Do you feel he worth what he will command?
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
Imagine what a Maddux would have commanded in todays market.
Six years, $144MM, LOL.
Just 20 years ago we signed the greatest pitcher on earth for 5 years 28 million!!! Then again in 1997 for 5 years 55 million.
Bravofan
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
I’m ready for the Braves to make a move!!!
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
Pay is getting crazy for these guys!!
MFin04
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
“We don’t necessarily need an ace, Kinda like, I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you”
Well to be fair, almost any pitcher would be an upgrade over Hanson, Jurrjens, Delgado, or Minor on their inconsistent off days.
DAP
July 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
with the rangers last couple of seasons, they probably want to give themselves the best possible chance to win a short series, which means, if they dont have at least 4 pitchers better than grienke, they are probably interested in him.
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:36 pm
SNEAKY PETE, yeah, it’s pretty close. In a vaccuum, I’d rather have Greinke the next 2-5 seasons. ERA+ isn’t everything. But the fact that Lester is signed for a couple of more seasons after this one at a reasonable price would make Lester nearly just as valuable, if not more so, on the trade market, I suspect.
SNEAKY PETE
July 26th, 2012
4:37 pm
because of my name, Empty? I admit that have been known to break a rack or two with a fake house cue
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:37 pm
Twenty years ago, $5MM a year was real money. Can’t even buy one mansion for that now.
Times are tough for the workin’ athlete.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:39 pm
scoots – Set Shaun straight? Good luck with that one. When one believes he has all the right answers, it’s pointless to debate with them…be it politics, religion, or Shaunism. One cannot learn if he is unwilling.
ACE
July 26th, 2012
4:40 pm
What about Nolan Ryan’s comments about Josh Hamilton. I wonder what Nolan would have to say about Dan Uggla.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:40 pm
Well to be fair, almost any pitcher would be an upgrade over Hanson, Jurrjens, Delgado, or Minor on their inconsistent off days.
It’s not like guys like Grienke don’t have stinkers…
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
4:40 pm
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Dodgers, #Cubs “might” be getting closer on Dempster. Teams remain in dialogue.
Memphis
July 26th, 2012
4:42 pm
Justin Verlander has stinkers. Grienke is better than Minor, Teheran and Delgado, and will have a better career than all 3!
cricket
July 26th, 2012
4:42 pm
Pay is getting crazy for these guys!
yes and that’s why a middle payroll team like braves will not be able to afford a big time FA. they will have to hope to get very good ML starters from the system and trade future value of some of them for present value of some big time veterans, even if the trade is not equitable. if not, they will always have a nice ROI considering the number of games won and money spent on salary but will never actually win the WS or even the division with Nats having strong core and phillies having huge payroll.
Off course based on most of the comments on this blog, most fans prefer better ROI compared to taking a chance to try to win DIV and WS. so it’s all good.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
4:43 pm
Let them have him. who cares where Dempster goes?
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:43 pm
monty, yes. Comparatively speaking, I think Greinke is worth in the Matt Cain, Cole Hamels range. If you look purely at the pitching performance of those guys, doing your best to take defense and luck out of the equation, Greinke has pitched at least as well as those guys.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:43 pm
It’s not like guys like Grienke don’t have stinkers…
Exactly. The important thing is what happens the start or two AFTER the pitcher goes nuke. Does he right the ship, or turn turtle?
I’d almost like to see Minor have a bad outing now, since he looks as if he’s starting to believe in his stuff, just to see how he rallies after. Or doesn’t, I guess. Either would be informative.
Half Empty
July 26th, 2012
4:44 pm
anybody can win the world series if they get to the playoffs.
tony austin
July 26th, 2012
4:44 pm
Teheran’s MiLB numbers aren’t that impressive. It may be a good time to package him while his value is still considered high.
cricket
July 26th, 2012
4:45 pm
Twenty years ago, $5MM a year was real money. Can’t even buy one mansion for that now
i feel for you
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:45 pm
Off course based on most of the comments on this blog, most fans prefer better ROI compared to taking a chance to try to win DIV and WS. so it’s all good.
Hey, I agree. Sometimes it’s about “bang for the buck”, but sometimes it’s about just plain “bang”.
Venice Jim
July 26th, 2012
4:47 pm
From a Washington Post article on NL East moves:
The Braves have sought to solidify the back of their rotation, one of their most glaring weaknesses. They reportedly had a deal in place for Chicago Cubs right-hander Ryan Dempster, but it wasn’t completed because the pitcher had the ability to nix the trade. Milwaukee Brewers right-hander Zack Greinke now seems like a possible target.
While Ben Sheets has been a pleasant surprise and could alleviate the loss of top starter Brandon Beachy, the rest of the Braves starters have 4.00-plus ERAs except Tim Hudson. A rotation that includes Tommy Hanson, Mike Minor and Jair Jurrjens is wholly underwhelming. Even if the Braves add a top starter, it may not be enough to patch up the rest up of the starting pitching.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:47 pm
Grienke is better than Minor, Teheran and Delgado, and will have a better career than all 3!
You been to the future or something…. Someone hurry up and call Frank we got us someone that can predict the future!! With you by Frank’s side we’ll never make a bad move again!!
ACE
July 26th, 2012
4:47 pm
Some are speculating that if the Rangers don’t resign Josh Hamilton that they may go after Bourn.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:48 pm
i feel for you
I’m managing, thanks, LOL.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:49 pm
Teheran’s MiLB numbers aren’t that impressive.
Remember kids the numbers tell the WHOLE story!!
ACE
July 26th, 2012
4:49 pm
That article is spot on, VJ.
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:50 pm
Remember kids the numbers tell the WHOLE story!!
…and, if it’s on the Internet, it has to be true.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:51 pm
Exactly!!
ACE
July 26th, 2012
4:52 pm
Bonjour
ncscoots
July 26th, 2012
4:52 pm
Even if the Braves add a top starter, it may not be enough to patch up the rest up of the starting pitching.
Just a Nats-lover whistling past the graveyard.
raleighbravefan
July 26th, 2012
4:52 pm
If we can’t re-sign Bourn…by all means, let him go to Texas…or anywhere else in the AL, for that matter (except NY or Boston, of course).
Shaun
July 26th, 2012
4:53 pm
Numbers tell a good portion of the story. But you have to look at the right numbers. I’m loosely including age in as a number.
tony austin
July 26th, 2012
4:54 pm
I like Bourn alright, but I sure am tired of him whiffing. He has an awful lot of Ks for someone who is supposed to be one of the table setters.
ACE
July 26th, 2012
4:55 pm
Don’t want to see Bourn in a NATS uniform.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:56 pm
Wonder why so many teams have Teheran as the Braves #1 prospect… You’d think if he was as bad as some Braves fans say he is then he wouldn’t be worth anything on the market!! Those other teams must be dumb… Yeah that’s what it is because Minor, Teheran and Delgado are terrible and have no value!!
↑↑↑↑Sarcasm↑↑↑↑
Hillbilly
July 26th, 2012
4:56 pm
…and, if it’s on the Internet, it has to be true.
The commercial with naive internet-using woman that says “Here comes my date, he’s a French Model” and the jacked-up looking basement-dweller dude walks up, throws his hands out, and says “Bon Jour”….that one kills me every time. Love it.
CrαZy
July 26th, 2012
4:57 pm
Numbers tell a good portion of the story. But you have to look at the right numbers. I’m loosely including age in as a number.
I should’ve known you would respond to that…
Memphis
July 26th, 2012
4:57 pm
Nobodys predicting the future smart ass. Everyone thinks Teheran, Delgado and Minor are Maddux,Glavine an Smoltz Part 2. Not even close. Teheran has had opportunities in Atlanta and cant even get out of the 4th or 5th inning. Delgado is 4-10 with an ERA of 4.50. The Braves signed Minor cause he was “signable” . They thought he could be a serviceable member of the rotation. Grienke is better and will be better.