12:59 pm July 24, 2012, by David O'Brien
July 24th, 20125:57 pm
Uggs can’t start hitting again on the bench, though a coupla days might help clear his head and take a bit of the pressure off
Only way Dempster should be a Brave is if Delgado is no longer heading to Chicago, even before this fiasco, Delgado shouldn’t be in it, just to much for Dempster and now after the fiasco, still WAYYYY to much for him, especially since it’s clear he wants to go to LA.
July 24th, 20125:58 pm
Get Felix or Greinke or put Medlen in the rotation _ UNCBrave
This stuff always cracks me up.
Still offering Delgado for Dumpster? Go Falcons and Hawks!
Wren now in 3rd place in local GM quality rankings.
I’d have a hard time getting behind a guy like that if he does come here, knowing we were a “distant” second choice and he’ rather be playing in LA. Anyone agree?
Meh, not really. I doubt that too many players who end up in Atlanta wouldn’t rather play somewhere else, all other things (salary) being equal. Hell, I live here and I hate Atlanta. There are much cooler cities with MLB teams. While I’m not personally a fan of LA, if Dempster is, who can fault him for doing what he has a right to do and trying to get there. And it sounds like he has family reasons for preferring LA too. It’s his right to hold out for the deal he wants.
It will be a joke if we do get Dempster after what has happened. Are we really that desperate for pitching that will still make a move for the guy who doesn’t want to be a Brave?
July 24th, 20125:59 pm
July 24th, 20126:00 pm
I used to ♥ Atlanta when I lived there…
If you will offer to pay the 12 mil owed ..call the braves..choppity chop…still pulling for you ugg..but it is tough
BravesFan in DC
July 24th, 20126:01 pm
Valid point, Salty. My point was mainly that I have lost some passion for him as a Braves fan– he will feel like that much more of a rental.
If Braves do get Dempster, then Braves are in the drivers seat as far as what to send as compensation for Dempster after this fiasco. Cubs can thank Dempster.
Delgado offer should be off the table and if Cubs want to re-ignite talks, Delgado is off limits and lower tier prospect on the table.
Uggla in the 6 hole.What a murderers row.
Is Medlen’s arm too tender for him to be added to the rotation?
Why has Wren given up on the idea of making him a starter?
Does anyone know ‘the rest of the story’?
Folks I believe it time that Wren and the Braves withdrew the offered for Ryan Dempster for couple of reason, The main reason is that Dempster does not want to play for the Braves if he did then he would have approve to the Braves yesterday afternoon when the Deal was agreed upon. The Braves have the Prospect to get a top-of-the-line starting pitcher. And even if Dempster had change his mind and said that he want to play for the Braves and the end of the day Ryan Dempster is not a number one starter.
July 24th, 20126:02 pm
4:58pm: Roberts has been told a trade is on the one yard line, MLB.com’s Steve Gilbert reports (on Twitter).
Hmmm perhaps a bench bat for Atlanta?
July 24th, 20126:03 pm
Send Uggla to Tampa for Brooks Conrad.
If it’s true that Wren’s phone is ringing off the hook now that he’s put Delgado on the trading block, that should tell him something. The other GMs know how good this guy will be.
And if Dempster does come to Atlanta, he is going to have to do A LOT to prove himself to the fans and A LOT to win everyone over due to this fiasco.
July 24th, 20126:04 pm
Yes, it is RT @tottsb_jmunoz: @ajcbraves Lots of misinformation out now. Best of your knowledge: #braves offer still on table for Dempster?
Wren should be embarrassed….Still offering Delgado after this FIASCO??? Sad…
July 24th, 20126:05 pm
mr. frickeesee is a slash gm and a heart specialist
The only way we would get King Felix is if we we were willing to trade Jason Heyward. The Mariners want proven major league hitters, and Heyward is the only guy we have who would be worthwhile for them.
In other words, not happening.
I agree that it doesn’t feel good to be somebody’s second choice, but it’s not like he doesn’t want to play for Atlanta. Second choice out of 30 teams isn’t exactly being snubbed. The problem is that loose lips leaked the story before Dempster signed off on it and now he’s being treated like it’s his fault.
If I’m being offered my top two choices, I’m not taking the second one until I know for sure I can’t get the first.
I like Delgado, but he is being way overvalued here.
July 24th, 20126:06 pm
Wren needs to take the offer off the table now. If Dempster comes to Atlanta for that offer after this fiasco, Wren will have to make it up big time to the fan base. Wren is in the drivers seat if he plays his cards right. Take the offer off the table, right now.
July 24th, 20126:07 pm
Delgado isn’t being overvalued to be fair.
If he’s to be traded, it should be for someone worth giving him up for and Dempster before and after this fiasco is not worth giving him up.
We’ll take Delgado and give you a tomato.
July 24th, 20126:08 pm
Soon DOB will write an article on Jason Heyward and his struggles at the plate since June ended. Heyward has been pathetic at times in July. He’s striking out at a alarmingly high rate 22 k’s in 74 AB’s (1 every 3.3 AB’s) – one of the highest of his career. He’s S/O in 15 STRAIGHT GAMES which equals the longest consecutive game S/O streak of his career!!!
In addition, he’s hitting for less power than he has all year. He’s on pace to hit FOUR XBH in July!! His average in July is .243 and his SLG% is .338. His SLG% for June is DOUBLE what it is for July. Overall he’s been awful in July. He has 1 double, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 22 SO in 74 ABs. In July he’s hit for less power than he has all year and he’s striking out at a higher rate than he has all year. Pathetic…
Freeman needs to bat 3rd and Heyward needs to bat 6th. The only people he’s hitting better than this month = Uggla and Janish, yet he’s still batting in the middle of the lineup killing the offense. Would have felt better last night if Chip or Freeman were AB with 2 runners on in the 9th w no outs, instead it was JHey who killed the rally with a DP even if he was safe it was a pathetic AB as usual for him.
His April, May, and July numbers are all below average for an OF. He had a hot June, if he hadn’t there’d be pressure to bench him now. JHey isn’t a good hitter and never will be, he’s inconsistent and the majority of the time he’s a below average hitter for a RF. Sad to say he”ll never be a star….
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
DOB Just a day off for McCann, didn’t want him and Chipper both out of lineup on same day and Chipper will rest tomorrow.
boo hoo, Ryan hurt my lil feelindsies by not agreeing immediately to come here, second favorite is unacceptable to my whiny lil ego, so send him to hell….
July 24th, 20126:09 pm
If Wren takes the offer off of the table then the Dodgers’ offer becomes exponentially better, relatively speaking. If at the end of the day it was a good deal to begin with it still is a good deal. The only way it makes sense for Wren to try to play hardball is if LA drops out altogether. For now they are still in the driver seat and we are still in the running by virtue of a better offer for the Cubs.
July 24th, 20126:10 pm
Maybe Francisco for Ryan Roberts?
July 24th, 20126:11 pm
Wait, was that an option? What kind of tomato is it?
Still looking for Wren down here so I can lock him in a broom closet for 6 days.
Count me as one who sees a trade as a waste of valuable young resources on our end for a team that has too many holes to be taken seriously as a playoff team.
Train Wreck Bystander
July 24th, 20126:12 pm
The radio crew just made a good point.
According to Dempster himself, he will be starting for Chicago tomorrow. When you assume he is a year-end rental and figure he had maybe 10 or 11 starts remaining this year, and lop off 1, you have lopped off 9 to 10% off his trade value.
Well with his decision not to accept the trade, we have lost a would be start from him which takes some value away as well. Hard to think we keep the same offer on the table.
July 24th, 20126:13 pm
“I used to ♥ Atlanta when I lived there…” nolie
Yeah, but a LOT has changed since the Great Depression old man!
Sorry. Couldn’t resist. I’ve hardly blogged for a few months. Got a lot of catching up to do in the sarcasm department.
good points one his reducing value
July 24th, 20126:14 pm
Dempster solves nothing as far as next year’s pitching goes and actually adds to the SP problem of next year if we trade Delgado.. I doubt we enter a bidding war for Sheets even if he wins out the rest of the year, doubt we try to sign Dempy to a 3-4 year deal he’ll be asking for, so, just a 2 month rental in exchange for a young guy with a live arm that is cheap for the next few years. Seems desperate to me.
Dempsters numbers at turner Field Are Ugly 0-8
Is it just me, or did we screw up by not signing Cody Ross this past winter? RH LF is just what we need right now. Wren blows on it again!
July 24th, 20126:15 pm
not quite THAT long N8, but it has been a good while and a lot of things HAVE changed . good dig
Ross turned our offer down
July 24th, 20126:16 pm
If Dempster wasn’t worth Delgado before and after this fiasco, he definitely isn’t now after that point being brought up.
In the end, Dempster’s decision to wait is costing Cubs a lot of leverage. Any team (Braves/Dodgers in this case) will be stupid to trade a top tier prospect for him.
thats cause he was up against our awesome hitters Bama
July 24th, 20126:17 pm
Already knowing its gonna be a 2 month rental, every single start he would make for us is huge. Just no way I offer Delgado anymore.
our best play is to call up teheran, sit JJ and trade for a an outfield bat and reliever. that way we can play prado at ss while simmons is out, then rotate him at 3rd (so juan doenst play), 2nd (limit uggla’s ab’s), and outfield for the rest of the season
Thanks to those lovely decisions of the past (Lowe, KK, McLouth).
May not be long until we add Uggla to that ignominious mix.
Although I’d like to see Ryan Roberts as a Brave for a bench option, I am happy that it’s apparent that he’s about to be traded to my Rays
July 24th, 20126:18 pm
Ross didn’t want to play in Atl. either, boooooo!
July 24th, 20126:19 pm
Enter your comments here
that park was a smart choice for Cody. he is having a very good year and has likely put himself back in line for a multi-year contract this winter which was prolly the idea
I wouldn’t have offered Delgado in the first place.
Maybe this fiasco will allow him to still acquire Dempster and keep Delgado, although Dempster will have to do a A LOT to make amends for this fiasco.
July 24th, 20126:20 pm
Peter GammonsVerified @pgammo
Marlins told teams they would trade Sanchez OR Johnson. Only blowaway offer will get JJ, for now, anyway
Its really STUPID to trade for a guy (Dempster) who doesn’t want to be here…..How’s Dempster gonna perform if he doesn’t want to be here??
July 24th, 20126:21 pm
there is NWIH that McLouth can be blamed on Wren as a bad decision. No indication at all that he would struggle so badly and be too stupid to tell folks that he had a hernia
Your argument Echoeing (DL) Jones, does Not Hit the Issue of Why Easte sending Medlin down for Instructional purposes to fill a Starting Rotation ILL, and yet Medlin has Yet to be inserted to Replace the ineffective Jair Jurrjens.
We Keep HArping on Uggla’s decline of Production at the Plate, except for Increased BB’s Which by Most MLB Standards, ANY ML Mgr Would have Since enough to UTILIZE a FREE GIFT of a Baserunner but Sesame St. Gonzalez acts like he still has no CLue what to do when a Runner gets on Base, except allow Heyward to hit them into a Double-Play.
July 24th, 20126:22 pm
if I am Frank Wren, I pull the offer today of Delgado for Dempster. With teams realizing that the Braves will deal their prized pitching prospects I would set my sights higher and on someone who will be under club control past this season. My top 3 would be Lester, Shields and Greinke probably in that order.
For Greinke I would give up Delgado and another minor league prospect.
For Shields or Lester I would give up Teheran or Delgado or Minor as part of a package.
I guess Wren should send out inquiries to find out which pitchers really, really,really, want to pitch for the Braves!
July 24th, 20126:23 pm
weird unfathomable capitalizations appear on the horizon
July 24th, 20126:24 pm
Man, it seems like we’re always giving a guy a day off. Ahead or just behind an offday. Seriously, Chipper & McCann can both sit on Thur, or just sit one, not both. McCann doesn’t always have to sit a day game after a night game, especially when you have an off day looming. Quit juggling the lineup so much.
Figured you’d like that one nolie. Glad I was right.
I’m kind of torn on this Delgado/Dempster thing.
On one hand, Dempster is leading the majors in ERA, which says he’s having a really good year and arguably could be the best arm “available” (since Greinke might not be available).
On the other hand you have Delgado who is young and shows flashes of brilliance. Proably too much to give up for 2 months (now about 9 or 10 starts) of Dempster.
I almost fall into the category that if we are to trade Delgado, who seemingly 2-3 months ago appeared to be a big part of our future plans…. I think we need to get somebody who can fill a rotation spot at a semi-reasonable rate for at least next year and perhaps even 2014 as well.
Does Wren and Liberty Media “owe” it to chipper to put a winner on the field this year? I suppose you could make that arguement.
Or perhaps if Chipper had been more healthy the past couple of years (and this year), we’d already have made the playoffs last year and be in line to do so this year? I think you can argue both sides.
But I find it silly to trade Delgado for a 2 month rental. When last off-season you probably could have gotten much more for him.
But with ZERO shot at signing Demptster beyond this year (and I’m not even sure that would be wise if it was an option), Delgado is too much.
That being said, if Dempster would come in and pull a Doyle Alexander? All would be forgiven I guess. Until Delgado wins a Cy Young award (if).
I just don’t think you need THAT MUCH of an upgrade. Jurrjens has been so terrible, that simply replacing him with an average pitcher along with another bullpen arm and a RH bench bat is probably more productive than going all out for 2 months of Ryan Dempster.
Uggs obviously didn’t wanna play here. Wren held a gun to his head to get the extension, that’s why he has been so bad
Bobby Cox would just give everyone the same day off.
July 24th, 20126:26 pm
I hope Wren and the Braves aren’t just ‘takin a cold tater’ here and waiting for Mr Dempster to get the deal he really wants…that’s to be on the west coast and do Spring Training, Spring Training for heavens sake…in Arizona. Make another deal even if it’s your second choice, or don’t make one at all, for a pitcher at least, and get a bat or two. Hell bring up our gorilla from AA. Something. If Dempster’s gonna be this way now you know he won’t stay here beyond this September.
the addage of “a WALK is as Good as A Hit” Would only make sense If you have a MGR with more Brain Cells than Sesame St Gonzo has shown.
I don’t think it’s a fiasco, Dempster has the right to do what he wants. But now that it is clear he doesn’t want to play for us and we lost a would be start from him by not accepting the deal after the teams agreed. So in my opinion Dempster is losing value by the day. Each start by a rental player is valuable. We view him as a player who puts us over the top obviously by offering 5 years of Randal Delgado for him. Just don’t see how we keep the same offer on the table when we have lost 1 start from him already.
true but Bobby won more of them Sunday games than anybody on this blog ever thought he would
July 24th, 20126:27 pm
Dempster may not want to be here, but if he comes, he will still have to pitch well so he can get his big contract this offseason. That said, I don’t want him here.
Regarding Dempster, you’re spot on.
If a better option can be had for Delgado and be kept more than two months, I’d have no problem letting Delgado go. However, for a two month rental, as you said, it is not worth it.
in many cases a walk is not as good as a hit, but it is way better than an out. there is a difference
yep fredi allowed heyward his 3-hole hitter hit into a double play…by the way jason was out but safe..dang that fredi is an idiot guess he should not want to take the chance on a 1b, 2b, 3b,homerun, or a bb
July 24th, 20126:28 pm
pretty much agree N8…..soooo embarrassing
July 24th, 20126:29 pm
wait a minute, what dempster thinks he is?…forget that clown, we’re in so much better place than his team when he’s called an “ace”, give me a break, for God sake, this have to be a joke , guys like dempster (so mediocre by the way) have to be pleased that a team like the braves have shown any interest for hi service…frank have some (at least any) respect for the flag tgat are hanging over the LF wall, this franchise has accomplished so more triumph that the ridiculous cubs..don’t get fooled again dempster is using you (in this case the braves) to raise his so called “value”…now pull the trigger and get volquez and quentin for well whatever you think it’s wont happens any way…
July 24th, 20126:30 pm
Still haven’t won a game on Monday, wonder what everyone does on sunday night?
July 24th, 20126:31 pm
its in their heads by now Va
Dempster does not want to play for the Braves and neither do most of the Braves want to see Dempster play for the Braves for just 2 months. And the end of the day everyone is happy.
July 24th, 20126:32 pm
how do we know what most of the Braves players want? They might give him a standing O if we get him…..
July 24th, 20126:33 pm
TALKING CHOP ON POTENTIAL DEMPSTER TRADE:
“I don’t blame him (Dempster) for taking his time to make a decision, that’s not why I’m against this trade. I’m against this trade because I don’t want to swap two to three months of Dempster for four to five years of Delgado. I’ve seen a lot of pitchers come through the Braves system, and few come through with the tools and have the success that Delgado has had.” — End quote.
July 24th, 20126:34 pm
In all honesty if I was Dempster I wouldn’t want to come to the Braves right now either. Who wants to go to a team that can’t even score runs against the Florida Marlins? Good grief, they showed him last night what the “real” problem is. If I were in his shoes I would hold out until the Braves acquired a hitter that would make a difference in this lineup, and traded Uggla or sent him down to get right. He’s hurting the Braves right now, and no good pitcher right now would want to go out there, pitch great, and lose 1-0 or 2-1. I give Dempster credit for being “SMART” !!!!!! This team has too many weak spots for any good pitcher to want to be a part of.
Can Dempster hit?
somebody is awful high on Delgado….
That’s my point exactly. The ‘B’ lineups did quite well. But the point was, give guys off on the same day… don’t scatter their off days which leads to a different lineup every night. The bench players got more playing time under Bobby, and the fact that they performed better is not coincidence. Another thing, Bobby was more animated than Freddi. He’d get thrown out and the team would rally. Haven’t seen Fredi do that in a year and a half. Guy like Uggs struggles, he’s in there everyday. Guy like Pastornicky or JJ struggle, he’s in the minors. Total inconsistency there that affects the team. Ya, Uggs is making millions & the others aren’t, but Bobby handled these situations differently.
July 24th, 20126:35 pm
@nolie I meant most braves fan don’t want Dempster .
July 24th, 20126:36 pm
you are prolly right about that BFNC
July 24th, 20126:37 pm
This is Chipper’s final season. Wren might as well go for it. Trading Delgado for Dempster will not ruin this franchise.
bobby c. he got thrown out last night
July 24th, 20126:38 pm
Tuffshhhtuff is right.No pitcher wants to play with this offense.Same holes as usual and a dog squeeze bench to go with it.Trade for a bonafide 3 hitter and a left fielder with pop.I would take a crab infested jock for Uggla if he was worth even that much.
July 24th, 20126:39 pm
Looks like Dempster may end up staying with the Cubs. Dodgers still not wanting to include Zach Lee. If he’d rather stay up there on a losing team than join a contender in Atlanta then so be it.
Dempster doesn’t want to be HERE!!!!
We already have had that kind of deal!!!
July 24th, 20126:40 pm
Nah… don’t be embarrassed nolie. During the off-season I’m pretty rational in my thoughts. I have watched so little of the games after the calendar turned to June that it’s almost like an early off-season.
I’m not as invested in this 25 man roster as I usually am. Since it’s pretty much been checking box scores and watching highlights. If that makes any sense?
This team while so close to being good, also seems to have too many holes to make a serious run.
So for me, trading 5 years of Delgado for 2 months of Dempster seems silly at best. Dempster will NOT help Dan Uggla hit better. He will NOT help Chipper remain healthy. He will NOT bring Simmons back from the DL faster. He will NOT provide us with better options in the bullpen (other than every 5 days giving us the possibility of not needing as many arms down there). He will not provided us with a good RH bat on the bench. And he likely won’t make Minor more consistent. Or Huddy and Hanson locate their pitches better.
If the only issue we had was Beachy going down and we needed one more solid starter to keep pace with the Nats, I’d be more inclinded to think Wren should go for it.
But trading for Dempster helps only one area of the team for 2 months. Losing Delgado might simply create another hole for the next 3-4 years or beyond.
Pretty much common sense to me.
we need to call up julio and trade for francoeur…that way prado can rotate between, ss, 3b, 2b, and outfield
July 24th, 20126:41 pm
Wren on proposed Dempster trade: “It’s not dead. The way we view it is, we are continuing to pursue all pitching opportunities. And if this deal materializes, we have the framework of a deal with the Chicago Cubs. If it doesn’t, and if something presented itself today, they [Cubs] know that we’re going to move on other things. And they understand. The most unfortunate part is that it’s public. These things happen. When players have no-trade [power], whether it’s a contractual no-trade or a 10-and-5, it creates additional difficulties for all of us to complete the deal. Because once there’s a window of opportunity for information to get out, it gets out. It just does. That’s the way it is in todays’ world.”
“It was an opportunity to get one of the premium arms in this trade-deadline market, and arguably the guy that’s pitching the best in baseball. That’s the positive side. The negative side is that it hasn’t gone as quickly as we would like.”
Bank on this…sooner or later…Uggla will drive in a meaningful run or get 3 hits in a game and 50% will say “Hooray! We knew he would turn it around!” Don’t be fooled, he’s done.
If Wren still wants Dempster, should not send Delgado. If Cubs don’t accept lower tier prospects in return, then go on to other better options than Dempster.
July 24th, 20126:42 pm
Well, it certainly seems that the Braves have lost their luster as a top tier destination for A list players.
When flipping Ryan Dempster turns you down, you might as well accept your place in mediocraty.
The only way to turn this around is to spend money..and at this point, because becoming an Atlanta Braves isn’t what it used to be, you are GOING to have to overpay for that first big arm or bat to come to you. Just look at the Nationals and Werth. They overpaid and he sucks and isn’t worth the money, but that’s landed them a lot of other players, a sell out a night fan base and national notarity. The Braves don’t have that anymore-they are just treading water and will continue to do so.
Everyone here should face that truth
July 24th, 20126:43 pm
I say forget Dempster and focus on greinke-dempster might be a one shot only deal!
July 24th, 20126:44 pm
More Wren on Dempster: “Quality individual and quality player…. I think we understand the situation because of our knowledge of Ryan, probably more so than others.”
“It’s a big decision for him. I think he’s being very thoughtful with the process.”
don’t understand why management doing nothing to address biggest hole on current roster. why uggla is untouchable beyond common sense it seems he going to play with average .100 why freeddy so in love with him looks suspicious.
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