2:30 pm July 17, 2012, by David O'Brien
July 17th, 20125:18 pm
Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, JJ, Minor!!!
Shaun: I think that Janish is the superior defensive player to Wilson, with range as the decisive factor. If you are old, can’t hit, can’t run (lingering calf issues) and happen to play SS…
Well, that’s easy math.
You’d also choose no playoffs if you chose that rotation. Or at best a loss in the wild card game.
uh, with that rotation if the season ended today we’d be in the playoffs. We’re also on the rise and have the 3rd best record in the NL. Call me crazy, but I like our guys and especially don’t like giving up a top prospect (or more!) for any of the guys on that list.
July 17th, 20125:19 pm
generations just ain’t what they used to be in ours scoots….
Oh yeah, Venters….forgot about him
July 17th, 20125:20 pm
You’d also choose no playoffs if you chose that rotation. Or at best a loss in the wild card game
junk like that just kills me
“I’d choose Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, JJ, Minor”
Check out Taco Mac and might see these guys watching the Nat-Cards playing or maybe Giants-Reds in October.
Speaking of worries…venters.
I wonder how much his problems are physical, how much mental. Seems like he’ll wild pitch a foot in front of the plate then groove one. Sign of a guy who has lost command of his best pitches and his confidence.
July 14th, 2012
OK I’ve got to admit that I was a little slow on this one, but I think I have a handle on it now. At first I didn’t get the rush Ben Sheets up after two so-so starts in the minors, but now I think I have it. Get him up here and see him go 2-3 starts before the deadline and see how he looks. So, if he looks pretty decent then that’s like aquiring the pitcher they needed. If they were going to make a trade for a pitcher regardless of what Sheets does, there would be no reason to hotfoot him up here. So, if he shows up well Sunday, we can turn our trade scenarios to shoring up the bench.
As you can see I wrote this Sat. morning and while I was hasty in saying that if he shows up well Sunday Braves FO could turn their attention to other matters. I think it will take at least 2 good starts, and Sunday’s was of course more than just good, now he needs 1 out of the next 2. Heck that’s as good as anyone else on the team, 2 out of 3. He does that and we can forget about a blockbuster type deal for Greinke or Dempster or whomever. And there’s no need to go after a Willingham right now unless you’re going to start resting players regularly(no place to play him unless there’s another injury). So, while I could be way off base, I see us getting a good stick to pinch hit down the stretch, or a reliever.
The rush for Sheets to pitch so fast was to see what they had(so that they could know if they had to make a move or not) or they were very perceptive and knew he was ready, or a little of both. I lean toward to get him 3 starts to evaluate him before the trade deadline. If they were going to make a deal for a frontline pitcher regardless of what Sheets did then the only reason to rush him up was because they thought he was that ready(riding a bike analogy). Hummm, let’s see….which sounds more reasonable? We’ll have to wait a couple of more weeks to see how it plays out.
July 17th, 20125:21 pm
All of Greinke’s issues??? Do you know how many times Johnson’s been hurt??
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
Have Sheets pitch whichever game Lannan doesn’t so BMac cann catch him!…
ATL Insider – IF Johnson’s issues are health related? He’s spent considerable time on the DL over an extended period of time and missed the final month of 201 AND all but nine stats at the beginning of 2012 because of his shoulder.
There is absolutely NO doubt it’s health related.
Well, nolie, I admit that they don’t make ‘em like you and me, anymore, but it would be nice if folks tried to have at least a tiny smidgen of perspective and sense of history.
“uh, with that rotation if the season ended today we’d be in the playoffs. ”
We would be in a one game wild card playoff game, if won then we would continue on.
I feel bad for the rest of the country, what with the drought and all. All we’ve had for the past week is a steady pounding of good rain, with the promise of sunny skies by tomorrow for the rest of the week…
Just in time to mow my lawn.
July 17th, 20125:22 pm
If they’re going to trade away prospects and pay serious money for someone
Well, I hope, whomever is acquired is better than this guy:
5-6 (W-L), 5.97 ERA, 1.424 WHIP, averaging 2 HR per 9 innings pitched. averaging 5.2 IP per start.
That line, roughly translated, reads, “puts his team in a hole and leaves early.”
July 17th, 20125:23 pm
If Venters is on the way back… all the way back, then I don’t see a need to trade for bullpen help.
July 17th, 20125:25 pm
In all due honesty, I’d love to see us not have to make a move and hang onto all of our resources, just so long we go deep into the playoffs. I just want us to increase our chances of such.
If Wren will dish out 4 years 60 million to a 36 year old pitcher, you’d really have to think he’d pay much more for a younger player who is in the same talent tier.
Many could argue if Grienke is a true ACE or not. Yeah he had 1 amazing season, he’s been good but not great on others. But overall he’s still a damn good pitcher. Most likely would be our best starter to add by the way.
Grienke would be better for sure, for the next 4-5 years on our team than what Derek Lowe produced who we were ok with paying 15 million a season too.
July 17th, 20125:26 pm
My point is that Harper has gotten an awful lot of love…
Well, as I recall, age is the overriding factor in hype. Harper is younger than Heyward and producing, so far, a similar line. Minus, of course, the elite walker label. But that could change as Harper gets more tired, as you called, and decides to start walking. ( :
Varvaro has been okay, Moylan is coming back, if Fredi keeps Moylan away from lefty’s and let’s Venters creep his way back into the 7th or 8th inning role, the team really won’t need much pen help.
But depending on Fredi to use the pen properly is dubious at best
July 17th, 20125:27 pm
Fredi has easily cost the braves four games that would have them in first place.
July 17th, 20125:28 pm
yup good pitcher, not a 20mil worth of good to a team in Atlanta’s financial position though IMO.
Coach @ 5:10: “God how I love it when I already know the answer before I even have to look it up!”
Like a couple of days ago when you thought Drew Sutton was still playing at Gwinnett and you insisted John McDonald has had a better career that Jack Wilson.? D)
July 17th, 20125:29 pm
TenPaul – Fine – you don’t like Minor at all – never have.
But does it make sense to trade players you might need to fill all the needs we’ll have this winter just for an incremental improvement? Cause that’s about what Garza would be – an incremental improvement. He’s not a top of rotation (he’s another 3-4 guy) starter and really doesn’t improve us all that much over either MInor or Delgado – and I think MInor is the one who should have been shipper across county and NOT Delgado.
I don’t think he helps all that much now or next year.
For what Frank paid Lowe and KK we should be able to get any starter.
Grienke is a great pitcher, if you look at his park adjust fielding independent pitching numbers he;s having a great year this year too. Any guy that has a9+ K rate AND over 50% ground ball rate can pitch for my team anytime
I think it’s time for some here to face facts and to realize that what they are looking for is “anyone except MInor”.
Really not the best way to improve your team.
July 17th, 20125:30 pm
Honestly, I don’t think the Braves could or should pay Halladay $20 mill a year, that’s the financial reality of it
yeah and most other managers have caused their teams at least 4 games too. they all make mistakes and choices that do not work, that’s why baseball folks consider strong personnel skills as the most important part of being a manager
July 17th, 20125:31 pm
again with the K-rate
July 17th, 20125:32 pm
Fredi may have a winning record with the braves but just think what a good manager would have done during the same period. The biggest being not miss the playoffs last year.
And as for a RHP for the pen? How about just going to Gwinnett and calling up Buddy Carlyle?
A veteran pitcher with a 2.34 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 3HR in 22 games comprising 50IP, 48K in those 50IP and only 10BB.
Not sure why we have to wait and see if Moylan might be back or not.
In your opinion, which starter do you think the Braves will trade successfully for?
Greinke, Dempster, Garza, Liriano? Someone other than one of those 4?
Or No Starter at all?
I’m very curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
July 17th, 20125:33 pm
reason Delgado got sent down is he needs to develop his breaking ball more, Minor just needs to trust his already developed pitches and work on pitch selection and aggression in the strike zone, If Minor went to AAA he would dominate them pitching as he dos already , he NEEDS to work on this stuff against big league hitting. Where Delgado is working on developing a pitch, and that is best done at the lower levels.
Venters has six wild pitches and six gopher balls in 32 innings. What do you make of that odd combination?
What a good manager would have done? Make mistakes and pissed off just as many people as Fredi has and Bobby did.
Again – y’all would find fault with anyone who got brought in.
Wren is in a very compromising.. do you stand pat and hope your club holds it together the remainder of the year or do you go all in and give up building blocks for the furture. After what happened at the end of last season, which no one saw coming, he’s got to erase that from fans memories and anything short of the playoffs won’t get it done.
July 17th, 20125:34 pm
welll pthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :-p
What we need is an ace in the hole, lew. We ain’t got one.
July 17th, 20125:35 pm
Fredi’s personnel skills are zero. This is the man who sajd no coaching changes would be made only to see Parrish fired the next day. The same one who was quick to throw pastornicky under the bus when questioned about a bunt.
“Grienke is a great pitcher, if you look at his park adjust fielding independent pitching numbers he;s having a great year this year too. Any guy that has a9+ K rate AND over 50% ground ball rate can pitch for my team”
I agree I think he is a very good pitcher. Still for 20M a year, you’re comfortable with this guy going in postseason? Look at his numbers last season in postseason. Not very impressive. Must game you believe this guy can deliver? I have serious doubts. He can help have a great season but for that money, he better have the goods to deliver in crunch time. Not sold on that he is that kind of guy. A very good pitcher regardless but hopefully not for the Braves.
July 17th, 20125:36 pm
NickB – MIght have to do with trade possibilites, too. Wren claimed on his XM Home Plate interview that Teheran was off limits and Delgado pretty well was, as well. MInor might get traded. Tennnessee Paul will be pleased.
hard to think “fair” when a guy with an ERA of 6 stays up and a guy with one of 4.5 (essentially a quality start average) gets sent packing
Woody – And what do you think the chances are that we find such a paragon?
I’m not saying the Braves should go for Grienke, just in general you think if we can throw 60 million down the toilet on a 36 year old pitcher that we could actually pay good money to someone will actually have during there productive seasons.
July 17th, 20125:37 pm
Lew, I have asked the same about why not give Buddy Carlyle a shot.
it’s tough to just throw the “bad in the postseason” label on a guy with such a small sample size….
July 17th, 20125:38 pm
you are and idiot Ace, Fredi is regarded as a good player handler
People have this goofy idea that Mddux was bad in the postseason (though his career postseason era is like 3.27)
July 17th, 20125:39 pm
Just some observations:
1) Before we annoint Ben Sheets as saviour and Comeback Player of the Year. Let’s see what he does in his next several starts
2) Just found out Mike Minor is pitching tomorrow. Mistake. Better to have kept Delgado in the rotation.
3) Still need another righthanded bat.
4) Next 6 games tells me what this team does the rest of the way. Need to go 4-2, at least. Otherwise we are a pretender, not a contender
ACE – YOu MIGHT have a point if it were Fredi who fired Larry Parrish. Wren blindsided him on that one (not that FW was wrong on letting LP go or anything).
July 17th, 20125:40 pm
NickB- realize that. Reality is this though. The guy has had some anxiety issues. This month alone with scouts watching, he has been pretty brutal after a great month in May. You have to know that those considering him are a little leary of this guy in big games.
Every other position is what it is. The 3B/LF rotation of Chipper, Prado, Diaz, Hinske, Francisco will have to do for the rest of the season. We are blessed that Bourn has stayed healthy b/c only Heyward could play CF in an emergency (unless they bring Costanza up). If the Braves were to make the playoffs – and Uggla recovers enough to make a decent season out of it – Chipper gets every start at 3B and Prado plays LF in every game. That said, who do you trade for this season to replace either Chipper or Prado?
If the Braves make a trade now, it should be for bullpen depth.
July 17th, 20125:41 pm
Thats Wren problem,he farts around too much and waits too long and then has to come up with some Bs excuse to rectify him waiting so long to make a trade.quit farting Frank and do something now before it is too late.
IMO, I just think Wren probably has no choice but to make a move. If nothing more than to show to the fans that we are in this thing totally. Cause right now, there’s nothing that distinguishes this year from last.. I think the fans are thinking, We’ve been here done that… curious position Wren is in.
I think the ace the Braves should target is Cole Hammels, he would only be a rental for the last half a year and Braves should only have to give up a Delgado or Minor plus another low level prospect. Go for it all this year without giving away the future.
ACE – How about I ask a tough question – just like you expect from DOB?
Why are you a total ass?
“Kevin Richardson to rejoin The Backstreet Boys on ‘GMA’ “:
Top headline on the AJC today. If the status of boy bands is the most important news story of the day, we are in big trouble.
July 17th, 20125:42 pm
Garza just isn’t that good. Don’t really think he’d provide much more than what we have and Wren certainly would NOT give both of those pitchers for him (shouldn’t either).
Garza is replacing Mike Minor, Lew. You have to get that he’d be an upgrade over Polished, right?
Jair may emerge, we don’t know. I think demptster or Liriano would be worth a shot. It’s a gamble, but both are effective pitchers on lousy teams. I just think going into the September with this staff is a greater risk.
July 17th, 20125:43 pm
but easier to do since he already has documented troubles with stress and anxiety Nick.
may be unfair, but it is still worrisome IMO, and as I have kiddingly said, he has pitched poorly since he knows that the scouts are swarming. I’d like to see him throw a good game b4 we traded 4 him
Thanks for your support Nolie but who else besides you thinks he is a good player handler? How many players have you seen him rush out of the dugout to protect.
July 17th, 20125:44 pm
But does it make sense to trade players you might need to fill all the needs we’ll have this winter just for an incremental improvement? Cause that’s about what Garza would be – an incremental improvement. He’s not a top of rotation (he’s another 3-4 guy) starter and really doesn’t improve us all that much over either MInor or Delgado
Well, as I’ve stated before, I hope for more than Garza, and the rumors seem to imply that Wren is looking for more than Garza.
But what must also be noted is that Garza is also under team control for next year. So it isn’t merely a rental, or two months. Also, an incremental increase could very well be the difference in making the playoffs or missing them. Similarly, if the front office deems whomever they are acquiring as a “long term” piece, the front office is simultaneously defining whomever they trade as “not-long-term.” And likewise, if the front office acquires a player they are deeming said player as more valuable or more useful to the Braves than the player(s) they trade.
In conclusion, if it is true that the Braves are looking at Garza, then it must be true that the Braves believe Garza will help the team enough to even be worth reviewing.
And, I would concur. Garza is better than Polished. But I am hoping for better than Garza. Time will tell.
July 17th, 20125:45 pm
Thanks for your tough question Lew. Not a complete one yet just partial, I have yet to reach your lofty standards.
Garza is replacing Mike Minor, Lew….Efrim
are we sure? Wren might send Hanson down and keep his buddy Mike
July 17th, 20125:46 pm
He’s not a top of rotation (he’s another 3-4 guy) starter and really doesn’t improve us all that much over either MInor or Delgado – and I think MInor is the one who should have been shipper across county and NOT Delgado.
Matt Garza is not a #4 starter. Get that number out of there. You want to call him a #3 starter? Fine. #4 he is not. And yes, big enough different between the two, imo.
As far as his worth to the team over Mike Minor for the next year and a half, I’ll absolutely take him over Minor and I’ll pack Mike’s bags for him if he is included in the deal. If Garza is going to cost Mike Minor and say, Christian Bethancourt and Nick Ahmed – I’m all for it.
Yeah Efrim – I get it. I just don’t thinkldoing a deal just to do a deal with damned little improvement is the best way to spend our capital. Yeah, he’d be an improvement but not that big of one.
July 17th, 20125:47 pm
not sure I would support you if you started to fall off a cliff Ace, but if you knew baseball at all you would know that is his reputation.
Thanks for your support Nolie but who else besides you thinks he is a good player handler?
you should never trade young pitching to a division rival if you an help it, hate to have them beating you for the next 5 years
Mike Minor is a good pitcher with head issues. He said in an interview over the weekend that he gets down on himself when he gives up runs and feels like he’s already lost the game. Then he starts thinking too much and loses concentration – see it happen at least once a start with him.
He needs to understand that EVERY pitcher gives up runs. It’s how you work out of jams and how well you minimize damage to keep your team in the game.
Right now the Braves are averaging about 6 runs a game – so….if he keeps the runs to 4 or less, the Braves are still in it. And, if he can figure that out, maybe he’ll get the confidence he needs.
July 17th, 20125:48 pm
James Shields is my #1. I’d probably say Ryan Dempster is my #2 followed by Matt Garza…..Liriano a distant 4th.
The Parrish deal shows how little Fredi knows about what is going on and throwing the Rev under the bus shows just how inept he is at handling players.
July 17th, 20125:49 pm
Again. The relative calm of the winter Hot Stove League – after a full season of minor league evaluations – will allow for a much better trade to be made than ANY trade that could be made now. In hindsight, think what those five players traded for Teixeira would’ve brought if JS would not have made the trade and waited until that winter to package multiple deals.
Trades made now will ultimately haunt us, to say nothing of the fact that we may have nothing to show for it as early as 2013.
Mike Minor is a good pitcher with head issues.
I’m sort of thinking he is a good pitcher with 50’s across the board on all four of his pitches. He’s average. A #3 starter ceiling.
July 17th, 20125:50 pm
Oh, did something happen with Fredi and Parrish? Why don’t you ever bring that up?
When did he throw Pastornicky under the bus?
What team jeffery d the Cardinals? They should have given Fredi at least a share of their WS winnings.
James Shields is my #1. I’d probably say Ryan Dempster is my #2 followed by Matt Garza
I’m aiming for Walter Johnson… wait, what day is this?
July 17th, 20125:51 pm
not a Garza fan, don’t lik his home/away splits, don’t like his tendency to have big innings, I don’t like how much $$$ he’s making and WILL make in arbitration next year….
I honestly don’t think he’s worth what he will cost in prospects and money, I reckon Liriano provides similar value this year and will cost less than Garza in prospects. Plus as he’s a free agent, it means Frank has more freedom in the offseason to make decisions on Bourn/CF and LF.
Garza in Atlanta means no Bourn, Greinke and Shields mean this too, but at least you are gonna get good production for your $$$
Efrim – and that’s fine – I’ll take a solid #3 guy right now. He’s going to be fine, remember Smoltz had all these same type of problems when he first came into the league – and figured out how to work around them. I don’t see Minor as a #1 either, but solid #3 or maybe #2.5
After looking at all the teams that are “Sellers”, only TWO true ACES or “top-of-the-line-rotation” guys stick out…..Zack Greinke of the Brewers and Felix Hernandez of the Mariners
On his comments about the Revs first at bat when he was recalled.
If you’re going to trade assets, remember that the Braves will have some holes to fill this offseason…..
of course, one of those needs is a starting pitcher. So, makes sense that Wren would be after a pitcher controlled beyond 2012 – eliminating Dempster, Liriano, Greinke, Hamels….
A #3 starter ceiling.
That’s very nice of you. I don’t see that. I see quadA material.
July 17th, 20125:52 pm
“Mike Minor is a good pitcher with head issues. He said in an interview over the weekend that he gets down on himself when he gives up runs and feels like he’s already lost the game. Then he starts thinking too much and loses concentration – see it happen at least once a start with him.”
That is why Minor has to pitch in order to obtain the necessary experience.
By the way, PDOG, if your trade Minor or Delgado, you are in essence trading away your future.
July 17th, 20125:53 pm
Why don’t you ever bring up last Septermber. The other manager who watched his team implode is no longer managing.
Jeffrey–fredi said Pastornicky third strike bunted on his own the other day. Reporter asked if the bunt sign was off. That may or may not be throwing a guy under the. Bus, but he sure didn’t cut him any slack. IMO, it indicates a weakness in the rev’s game.
I honestly don’t think he’s worth what he will cost in prospects and money
That value is TBD. So, are you saying you simply don’t like him no matter what? Because not even the Cubs know what is ultimate value will be in prospects. They can aim and hope for a certain level, but they aren’t guaranteed to get it.
July 17th, 20125:54 pm
I do not see Greinke as a legit #1 starter… unless he is pitching in the relative obscurity of a small-market cellar dwellar.
You mean this?
On Pastornicky’s two-strike bunt attempt, did you second-guess yourself at all after that?
“[The bunt sign] was taken off. He went on his own there.”
whoa….Fredi really grilled him there
MiaBch – I’ve been saying that for awhile and so has Fredi – gotta keep running him out there – or words to that effect. Can’t learn unless you’re there and AAA isn’t where these guys learn that. Some just learn slower than others.
Only true Ace available is Hamels. And to sign him, we’d have no $$ for Bourn.
July 17th, 20125:55 pm
4) Next 6 games tells me what this team does the rest of the way. Need to go 4-2, at least. Otherwise we are a pretender, not a contender
6 games dictate the following 70+???
Holy crap! I did not know that!
Well, then, I sure hope they do well in these 6 games, otherwise I guess it’s time to start the NFL countdown, where the first game dictates the next 13-14.
well, costing Minor would be a big incentive all right
July 17th, 20125:56 pm
Why don’t you ever bring up last Septermber.
Why would you???? We’re in the middle of a 7-game winning streak, and all you want to do is find reasons to bitch. I swear some people aren’t happy unless they’re miserable.
“Hey Steve, happy birthday!”
“Yeah but my dog died a couple years ago.”
rectify? (non sequitur – sorry)…
July 17th, 20125:57 pm
Yes that from the great player handler. Do you think Bobby Cox would have said that?
My “Jeanne Dixon” – the same type of moment that called the Derek Lee trade a couple of seasons ago when all the naysayers on this blog said I was wrong – tells me that the Braves stand pat, save for a bullpen arm.
The real action will be this winter, folks.
Hamels want’s $24mill per over 6 years…. he’s so gone to the Dodgers it isn’t funny
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