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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,929 comments Add your comment
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
9:59 am
You mean why should I care like you did with Berkman and plenty of others did with Beltran?
Not exactly sure what you mean by this though.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:00 am
The Angels have two more years, after this year, of Vernon Wells. All the weeping and gnashing of teeth concerning Mark Teixeira for Salty, Jones, et al. The Angels traded for the worst contract in the game… 4 years of that contract. Such a bad move.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:00 am
On the positive side, Freeman kept his streak alive and increased his AVG, OBP, and SLG.
Posted his slash line earlier and was surprised I beat you to it. Freeman is your boy like Heyward is mine. Good stuff.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:01 am
And it may turn out I am right about Grienke, too. However, it didnt stop you from continually ranting on a daily – hell, almost minute by minute basis about Berkman and there are STILL people ranting about Beltran, even though there was no way that either were ever coming to the Braves.
So yeah – until it’s been decided, I’ll rant about Grienke being a freaking wuss all I want to. Get over it.
Jeff R
July 18th, 2012
10:02 am
Cost be damned.
I don’t believe Wren will proceed with that attitude. Big downside for doing so. If Wren were to give up the farm to acquire a starting pitcher and the Braves failed to make the post-season, the negatives for Wren would be significant.
Generally, Wren’s been a shrewd trader, not surrendering greater value for what he gets in return.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:02 am
You don’t understand what is meant by that? I knew you didn’t actually pay much attention to what you post.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:04 am
Honestly, I have no doubts whatsoever. Wren will obtain a starting pitcher within the next two weeks
I noticed the distinct lack of an adjective describing that starting pitcher you are so certain Wren will get…. Leaving the door open to Wren resigning Livan Hernandez for the rotation?
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:04 am
Does it really matter how good your ace is if you have Delgado and Teheran as your 4 and 5 guys? I mean it seems you are better off having a mediocre ace, and two above average 4th and 5th pitchers? They have influence on more games than the ace does right?
Not saying those two guys can’t develop, but if the assumption is that they are below average and you need an ace to compensate for that, it seems it’d be much cheaper and more efficient to have two really good 4th or 5th starters.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:04 am
So yeah – until it’s been decided, I’ll rant about Grienke being a freaking wuss all I want to. Get over it.
So eloquently put.. take long to come up with that?
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:05 am
I don’t believe Wren will proceed with that attitude. Big downside for doing so.
Just as an example, I don’t believe a package of Mike Minor, Christian Bethancourt and Nick Ahmed for a Matt Garza type, would be giving up the farm in any way, shape or form. Just my opinion based on the teams needs for the remaining 2012 schedule and 2013 season.
I’d rather get James Shields for that package, though.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:06 am
I knew you didn’t actually pay much attention to what you post.
And this coming from someone that always has multiple misspells? I mean, I find this amusing, really.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:07 am
Leaving the door open to Wren resigning Livan Hernandez for the rotation?
No. Dempster, Shields, Liriano, Garza, Greinke, Vargas – one of the multiple rumored pitchers mentioned out there. Not picking up Livan Hernandez off of the scrap heap.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:07 am
…surprised I beat you to it
Yeah, I have not fully embraced George Will’s suggestion to Charles Krauthammer: “After which, Kurkjian asked us about our daily reading habits. I confessed that during baseball season I give the front page of the morning paper about 90 seconds before going right to the box scores.
To which Will deadpanned, “Why waste the 90 seconds?”“
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:07 am
Personally, I really enjoy how defensive you get everytime your challenged or you don’t agree with someone else’s views… priceless.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:08 am
Between walking a mile this morning? About as long as it took you to wonder what I was talking about.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:09 am
My ranking of possible targets, based on pure ability and how well I think they would pitch, not considering the cost in a trade:
1. Greinke
2. Shields
3. Dempster
4. Liriano
5. Garza
I don’t know how to compare those guys to the value they would require in a trade. That’s why Wren is the GM and I’m typing on an AJC blog.
CrαZy
July 18th, 2012
10:09 am
Ok, but they’ve been up for what 2 or three years now? I mean if they aren’t ready, why are we bringing them up and down, up and down?
Career Starts
Age 24 Minor- 39
Age 22 Delgado – 23
Age 21 Teheran – 4
Minor is getting to the point where I’m worried a little, but I’m not concerned at all about Delgado and Teheran both are still developing and learning how to pitch consistantly. If anything I’m still excited about both of them.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:10 am
I don’t mind being challenged as long as there is actually a bsais for a challenge and not just a desire on your part to seem like you have a clue.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:11 am
Vargas… that’s essentially picking up Livan again. Younger, but just as inspiring. The guy is taking over where Moyer left off, leading the majors in home runs allowed.
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:12 am
Ok, so what is more valuable to a team, above average 4 and 5 guys, or a dominant Ace?
CrαZy
July 18th, 2012
10:12 am
1. Greinke
2. Shields
3. Dempster
4. Liriano
5. Garza Brian from SC
Grienke and Shields are the only two I’d consider using either Delgado or Teheran to get. The others don’t improve us enough to deal one of those guys. I’d use Minor in a deal for all of them!!
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:12 am
Just what was it that you were challenging? The fact that I responded to your assertion that Grienke was overused by claiming that was total BS? Cause I don’t see much else of a point in anything you’ve had to say this morning.
Jeff R
July 18th, 2012
10:13 am
Just as an example, I don’t believe a package of Mike Minor, Christian Bethancourt and Nick Ahmed for a Matt Garza type, would be giving up the farm in any way, shape or form. Just my opinion based on the teams needs for the remaining 2012 schedule and 2013 season.
I’d rather get James Shields for that package, though.
I think Bethancourt is more highly prized by Braves’ management. Might just be more than Wren is willing to surrender for Garza.
Shields for the package you suggest might be a very different story, though.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:13 am
Is there something wrong with Uggla? They sat him the first game back after the break and then removed him from the game last night?
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:14 am
Ok, so what is more valuable to a team, above average 4 and 5 guys, or a dominant Ace?
In the playoffs, the ace. In the regular season to get in the playoffs…maybe a more difficult question.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:14 am
Just what was it that you were challenging?
Challenging? Nope, just stating the cold hard facts.
Murph
July 18th, 2012
10:15 am
Are you serious? You really think Wren won’t make a trade for a starter?
First, I said that I don’t think he’ll make a move that will be a significant upgrade. Getting a starter is one thing, but getting a difference-maker is something completely different.
1. There aren’t many “top of the rotation” guys that are available.
2. The Braves aren’t the only contending team looking to improve their rotation
3. Wren refuses to part with the trade chips that it might take to land that “ace” that everyone else is going to be bidding on.
Sure, he might add a starter, but I don’t look at getting a #3 guy as a huge improvement on a team that’s loaded with 3-5 caliber arms.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:15 am
So yeah – until it’s been decided, I’ll rant about Grienke being a freaking wuss all I want to. Get over it.
Nice of you, Lew. What did Zack ever do to you?
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:15 am
Cause I don’t see much else of a point in anything you’ve had to say this morning.
Yes, I know the feeling.
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:18 am
“In the playoffs, the ace. In the regular season to get in the playoffs…maybe a more difficult question.”
That is obvious, but you can’t get to the playoffs without winning in the regular season. So…
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:18 am
Murph, agree with your assertion at 10:15.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:19 am
I saw a few 90’s and 91’s – but not many. Still, you can’t pitch up in the zone like that. His commande was not there last night .Lew
Yep, I specifically remember the first RBI for Posey. Jurrjens had 2 strikes on him and Bmac wanted a changeup low and away. Jurrjens gave him a belt high change that came back to the middle of the plate.
Still, the Braves need to add another good/reliable starter to this rotation. Minor has to pick up this team tonight and keep us from starting another losing streak. Cant lose series at home when chasing down the division.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:19 am
Vargas… that’s essentially picking up Livan again.
Okay, remove Vargas from the list. I’d rather not pick him up either.
Sure, he might add a starter, but I don’t look at getting a #3 guy as a huge improvement on a team that’s loaded with 3-5 caliber arms.
So, let me get this straight. Ben Sheets’ one start, Jair Jurrjens and Mike Minor’s body of work this season has lead folks to believe that the none-impact types wouldn’t improve the rotation? I’m not looking for a 10 game improvement, fokks. You don’t get that from anyone with 73 games left. I’m just looking for one of the scrubs to be bumped out of the rotation for the next 10 weeks.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:20 am
You should know the feeling – you inspire it frequently.
Efrim – I have nothing against him just don’t think he’s what we need or worth what he’d cost. Must be because I’m a blind homer who sees nothing but the good in the Braves, right?
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:21 am
Nice of you, Lew. What did Zack ever do to you?
It’s ok Ef, Lew hates Grienke. Always has. But, if he comes to Atlanta, Lew will be one of his biggest fans. The only time the Rule of Lew did not apply was the last summer Nate McLouth was on the team. Lew fully embraced bashing an active Brave.
ncscoots
July 18th, 2012
10:21 am
I only hope that Wren gets done ASAP whatever it is he’s going to do. I’m not sure I can handle any more of the speculation here, LOL. Or maybe it’s the attendant “Oh, yeah?” that goes with it, that makes me cross-eyed.
So, help a brother out, Frank, willya? Get that bleep done.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:23 am
More of the same that we posted from his twitter feed. Just good to see that they want him at 3rd base where he absolutely belongs.
Oh yes, absolutely. An encouraging sign from the FO.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:23 am
I would like to get Greinke, but no way do you sign him for $20mil per for 5 years.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:24 am
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wren make a move sometime before Monday, which would be the date of Jurrjens’ next start.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:24 am
Must be because I’m a blind homer who sees nothing but the good in the Braves, right?
Personally, I’d just rather not pick on a guy who has had an anxiety disorder. It amazes me that some people classify disorders as such to mean that someone is mentally weak and can’t be an effective pitcher because of such. We have seen folks get over it and put together big seasons. Greinke has already done so. He’s a guy a I root for. Him, Votto and any other player that has gone through anxiety, depression, etc.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:25 am
If the Braves traded for Greinke, they would be trading for 2.5 months, plus maybe some preferential negotiating. They would not be trading for anything beyond that. The cost in prospects should reflect that. If Greinke was under reasonable contract for next year, the price would change drastically (see Teixeira).
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:25 am
You should know the feeling – you inspire it frequently.
And have to admit, quite clever. And who says your senile?
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:25 am
ten Paul – Yeah, I’m a blind homer except when there were two players I either didn’t like their performance (how COULD i Have bneen so negative about Nate’s performance cause he was injured, right?) and don’t think Grienke is worth the cost?
What am I then – A Homer of almost absurd proportion or a hater? Or maybe do I fall into some middle ground (something NEVER to be tolerated on this forum).
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:26 am
unbelievable, we could sign him if we got rid of Uggla’s wieght of a contract. Which we should.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:26 am
Would be nice to have Scott Diamond guy back. He’s quietly putting together a nice season for the Twins.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:27 am
Senile? Jackass.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:28 am
Do we really have any idea what the potential costs associated with these pitchers would be? Should we be so quick to assume a particular guy will cost the farm? We may be able to get a relative sense of this guy being worth more than the other, but maybe it wouldn’t take Teheran/Delgado to get any of them. Or maybe it would take one or both. I have no idea.
ncscoots
July 18th, 2012
10:28 am
I would like to get Greinke, but no way do you sign him for $20mil per for 5 years.
I know it seems large, on the face of it, but I can’t help but remember 4 and 60 for Lowe. Seems to me that the FO ain’t all that scared of going big-ticket, when necessary.
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:28 am
Sure would be nice to get another bat…
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:28 am
I only hope that Wren gets done ASAP whatever it is he’s going to do.
Yup. Annoying blog speculation aside, JJ’s performance last night was terrible and any starts we can take from him and give to Greinke/Dempster/Garza/Cy Young’s corpse, the better.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:29 am
Even without Uggla’s contract I wouldnt want him for $20mil per. Braves cant afford to pay one starter 20% of their payroll budget. Nor should they.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:29 am
Interest from the Nationals and Yankees isn’t as strong as some reports indicate, Toni Ginnetti of the Chicago Sun-Times reports. While the Dodgers had been considered the favorite to land Dempster, teams such as the Tigers, Red Sox and Braves could still acquire him. – MLBTraderumors
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess the Detroit Tigers acquire Ryan Dempster.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:31 am
If the Braves traded for Greinke, they would be trading for 2.5 months, plus maybe some preferential negotiating. They would not be trading for anything beyond that. The cost in prospects should reflect that.
Yes, absolutely. That price should not, and need not, include Teheran. He will certainly cost less than Shields and Garza, I think.
ncscoots
July 18th, 2012
10:31 am
unbelievable, we could sign him if we got rid of Uggla’s wieght of a contract. Which we should
Man, you are really down on that guy. I mean, every day.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:33 am
Agreed, Steve. Thinking about the Braves signing Greinke past this year is irrelevant right now, IMO. That’s a separate discussion altogether, and one that should take place in the off-season.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:34 am
Senile? Jackass.
I think you accidentally put a question mark in there, did you mean to do that?
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:34 am
I know it seems large, on the face of it, but I can’t help but remember 4 and 60 for Lowe. Seems to me that the FO ain’t all that scared of going big-ticket, when necessary.
True, but I really think a lot of people forget how good Lowe was for the 4 years he spent with the Dodgers. He was a 200IP 30+ game starter every single season for them. I think the biggest problem with that contract was the length of time, not necessarily the $$ amounts. Keep in mind our rotation at the time was Jurrjens, Morton, Campillo, Chuck James, and Jo Jo Reyes.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:34 am
I mean, every day.
He makes it so easy.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:35 am
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess the Detroit Tigers acquire Ryan Dempster.
Remember, Dempster has 10-5 rights and gets to choose. He said he prefers the Dodgers first and Braves second.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:35 am
Personally, I’d just rather not pick on a guy who has had an anxiety disorder. It amazes me that some people classify disorders as such to mean that someone is mentally weak and can’t be an effective pitcher because of such.
Thank you for bringing this up…you are absolutely correct. What Greinke has is NOT his fault. And, contrary to popular belief, the condition can be managed and not cause him any significant distress or impairment of functioning.
I’ll be the first one to admit that I was perhaps less than sympathetic to those with mental illness previously, but it was a lack of insight on my part. You just have to meet these people to have an understanding of what it is they are going through. And it’s hard to understand when you just don’t know, that I recognize and can tolerate to an extent.
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:35 am
If the Braves trade for Greinke and make the one game playoff, let’s just hope he isn’t pitching that game.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:36 am
Brian – It won’t wait until the offseason. I doubt seriously that Wren trades a significant package for a rental like Grienke that isn’t first locked up. Given the fact that there will sill be needs to be filled this winter, I’d bet that FW doesn’t trade for anyone just for a couple months that costs much more than Janish did.
And I’m doubting that the Brewers take a deal for Grienke like the Astros took for Bourn last year.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:38 am
It’s fine understanding and being sympathetic to those with problems like Grienke has and yet another wanting to pay a high price so they can be our problems for the next several years.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:39 am
That’s what I’m trying to say Lew…I have no idea if Greinke would cost “a significant package” or not. I’m not listening in on those phone calls. The cost associated with him should reflect the fact that you’d only be trading for two months. Same with Dempster.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:39 am
we could sign him if we got rid of Uggla’s wieght of a contract. Which we should.
I like this. It cracks me up. Uggla is the only player with a contract beyond this season. The only guy. Essentially the call is for the team to have no player ever signed to a contract beyond the current season. And Uggla is only signed for 3 more years at a price less than Chipper and less than Lowe and neither of those guys is on the team next year. Yes, that contract of Uggla’s really is crippling this team.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:39 am
It’s fine understanding and being sympathetic to those with problems like Grienke has and yet another wanting to pay a high price so they can be our problems for the next several years.
See, there I disagree again. He’s shown no evidence that it is a severe issue recently, and in my experience there’s no reason to expect it should be.
BravePack(FreeFan)
July 18th, 2012
10:40 am
My SP list would consist of Grienke(pending an extension but not at 20 mil per and it might not take that considering Zack has said he wants to pitch for the Braves) and Shields. Dempster is a 2 month rental not worth giving up prospects for and I’m not a big fan of Garza at all or Liriano as he is too inconsistent. Knowing Wren he has someone on the radar that no one has discussed as well. The thing that gets me is how the Braves had such depth at SP in the beginning of the season and it has turned to crap so quickly. Beachy-gone for a year, Teheran-getting lit up in AAA, Delgado and Minor very inconsistent. I say go get Grienke as he wants to pitch in Atlanta and the Braves need a top of the rotation pitcher as with prospects you never know if they will pan out.
Trader Jack
July 18th, 2012
10:43 am
One lose after a nice winning streak, and this place gets really testy and chilly!
I’m just shocked
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:43 am
It may be a possibility that the Braves could extend Greinke, but I doubt they could do that and bring back Bourn, or bring in another big bat. Six months ago, I would have said the Braves would rather not sign a veteran pitcher, because of Teheran/Delgado/Minor, etc. Now, maybe they would consider it, even at the cost of a Bourn-type presence. I dunno.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:43 am
I’ll be the first one to admit that I was perhaps less than sympathetic to those with mental illness previously, but it was a lack of insight on my part. You just have to meet these people to have an understanding of what it is they are going through. And it’s hard to understand when you just don’t know, that I recognize and can tolerate to an extent.
Thank you, Steve. I think the large majority of folks don’t understand mental illness and associate folks with such as a “whacko” or he is crazy or a “wuss”. This is just not true and it is a shame that members of our society continue to bash them.
Murph
July 18th, 2012
10:44 am
Ben Sheets’ one start, Jair Jurrjens and Mike Minor’s body of work this season has lead folks to believe that the none-impact types wouldn’t improve the rotation?
We’ve already got 4 inconsistent pitchers who can take the bump and be anything from dazzling to mediocre to flat-out awful. Hudson and Hanson are the only two who inspire even the slightest bit of confidence, but usually it’s confidence with a pang of dread as they seem to unravel as soon as they get into trouble.
I don’t think adding another guy like that does the team a whole lot of good. The guys that seem to fit what Wren might actually be able to pull off, Liriano, Vargas, etc are guys that fit the mold of inconsistent pitching to a T. Up and down, sometimes good, sometimes awful.
We’ve got plenty of sometimes good, sometimes awful already. If I’m making a cake and the icing tastes like crap, I don’t add more icing hoping it’ll get better just because there’s more of it.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:45 am
Brian – The point I’m making is this – we have certain needs that need filling – not only to make it to the playoffs this year, but going forward. WE are a mid market team with a stagnant payroll and only so much to spend going forward and have a minor league system that has already placed most of it’s major prospects on the big club the past several years, leaving a not deep system.
How much SHOULD Wren give up of our not unlimited store of talent or money to sign a rental? Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend your capital on players that could help you going forward as opposed to trying to make a deal that just gets you (maybe) to the playoffs this time around?
I have no problem with getting another starter – actually believe we really need one or two – just not certain about some already mentioned and I’d rather have someone like Shields or even Garza (who I’m not overly impressed with), that helps going forward, too.
Much better way to spend our capital IMO.
Frankie
July 18th, 2012
10:45 am
Not sure if you guys talk about it yet, but Wren on the radio this morning. Pretty interesting. Pretty optimistic tone(when isn’t he) but my impression is that he is going to do something and pretty big. Kept on talking about being in position of flexibility and that team want what they have in farm(impression he was talking about pitching).
My two cents here. Been trumping Dempster since early May. Maybe they don’t go that way. I am getting the impression that either Delgado or Teheran is going somewhere. Sounds crazy but if not somebody big like a Greinke, don’t rule out them possibly getting Hamels. Philly getting somebody like Teheran and younger. Don’t rule it out.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:46 am
Maybe Wren will suprise us all with a trade for King Felix.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:46 am
Grienke has and yet another wanting to pay a high price…
“High price”?? Grienke isn’t going to cost too much in prospects. The only leverage the Cubs have with Grienke in trade talks is 2+ months of control. That’s it. Even if they agree to allow a window of negotiation, such a window is not worth a blue chip. The only “significant” cost for Grienke is going to be the contract. But if this team is ever going to have a pitcher of his caliber, it is going to cost similar dollars. Tim Lincecum managed to get $22M in what would be his final year of arb. He’s making $18M in his second year of arb. Significant because it raises the bar for every other player. Eventually, if these young guns the Braves have fulfill their potential, this team will have a rotation full of pitchers with the ability to command $18M or more each, before they even hit free agency. This team is not going to be able to avoid the high-dollar pitcher forever. Not if they wish to win on a sustained level.
Frankie
July 18th, 2012
10:46 am
Lew- be prepared for something different this season. I’ve said all along he does something unconventional and against norm. Not going to just add small pieces this year.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:46 am
It’s fine understanding and being sympathetic to those with problems like Grienke has and yet another wanting to pay a high price so they can be our problems for the next several years.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Greinke is suffering from another bout of anxiety. This is not always a chronic issue, you understand this, yes?
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:46 am
“He’s shown no evidence that it is a severe issue recently, and in my experience there’s no reason to expect it should be.”
Except he has been terrible in every playoff game he has pitched in. That certainly isn’t “no evidence”. It may not be a large enough sample size, but…we are getting him essentially for the playoff race and the playoffs.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:47 am
This is just not true and it is a shame that members of our society continue to bash them.
It is a shame how mental illness is viewed in our society, but like I said, to an extent I understand it. To a person with no experience with it, it is hard to have insight into the mental processes of others, it really is. It’s easy to just think that you can tell an anxious person to “stop being anxious,” but until you understand the disease process and actually meet a few people with the condition, you can never really understand it, IMO.
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:47 am
I don’t think we disagree all that much, Lew. I just am not quite ruling out Greinke to the extent you are. I would not want to pay a significant price for him, and I probably would be hesitant to sign him long-term as well. If the Braves don’t have to do either of those things, though…he can really help the Braves for the next 2.5 months.
Shields/Garza would indeed help the Braves next year, and that is a good thing. Their prospect cost would reflect that, however.
Arkansas Transplant
July 18th, 2012
10:47 am
Murph, your just being unreasonable.. quantity is always better than quality. I mean more is better than less, right? More the merrier?
ncscoots
July 18th, 2012
10:47 am
Grienke(pending an extension but not at 20 mil per…and Shields. Dempster is a 2 month rental not worth giving up prospects for and I’m not a big fan of Garza at all or Liriano as he is too inconsistent.
If one thinks that a team is going to offer up some wart-less SP at the deadline, one should reconsider. Every guy traded at the deadline has something wrong with him, contract, or control period, or consistency, whatever. Any player traded for at the deadline is open for poster groans when it happens.
That’s why I love the idea of pre-hate.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:48 am
we have certain needs that need filling – not only to make it to the playoffs this year, but going forward.
One of those needs is a front end starter, such as Grienke.
nolie
July 18th, 2012
10:48 am
4/60 is a whole lot less that 5/100 especially for a guy with a muvh higher career ERA than Hanson FCS
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:48 am
Steve – And I’ve not made it an issue – all I said that even vaguley relates to his health is that I didn’t feel he was overused last week with his four pitches, two innings and a start on regular rest.
All of my objections had to do with what I believed his value was, the cost to the Braves and the fact he’d be expensive going forward.
It was others who made issues of his health and not me. I just daid that anyone who complained about that particular workload (and I never said he DID complain – just hthat it was a poor excuse) was a wuss.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:48 am
Kept on talking about being in position of flexibility and that team want what they have in farm(impression he was talking about pitching).
I’ve noticed this as well.
unbelievable
July 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Frankie, I doubt Wren would trade for Hamels. If we cant afford ($$ wise) an extension for Greinke then we certainly couldnt get Hamels. Someone brought up Dan Haren’s name last night and could be an interesting target. He’s got a $15.5 club option that the Angels may not want for next year. I know he’s suppose to come back off the DL this weekend. He hasnt pitched all that well for the Angels this season but he’s got the track record and would be around for next season if we picked up the option.
Frankie
July 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Efrim-
I would bet big that one of the two kids(Teheran or Delgado) is definitely going somewhere.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 2012
10:50 am
Lew–I know, and I don’t want you to think I’m unfairly picking on you. I’ve seen the argument made and your post gave me a bit of a podium to preach from, that is all.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:50 am
It’s easy to just think that you can tell an anxious person to “stop being anxious,” but until you understand the disease process and actually meet a few people with the condition, you can never really understand it, IMO.
So true. Great way of putting it, Steve.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:50 am
TenPaul – Well, says you. But that not withstanding, how do we afford a contract that could approach or exceed $20 mil annually on a team with a payroll of $90 mil with no sign of it escalating anytime soon?
Murph
July 18th, 2012
10:50 am
I’m just venting above, by the way. I don’t want to sound all pout-pout fish, especially after a 7 game win streak.
We’ll see what Wren does, and I’ll reserve judgement until after the deadline as to how improved the team really is following the moves.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:52 am
Price is a super 2. He’ll be commanding more money than a “typical” controlled player
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:52 am
Steve – NO problem. I really don’t dislike Grienke (nor did I dislike Nate either) like some here contend, just don’t think he’s the one we need or who we could afford. Too many other vacancies that need addressing to go all out on a single player like Grienke.
MFin04
July 18th, 2012
10:52 am
“4/60 is a whole lot less that 5/100 especially for a guy with a muvh higher career ERA than Hanson FCS”
So really we need to sign him to a 1 year $40 million deal then give him the Lowe deal, and all will be right in the world, right?
Brian from SC
July 18th, 2012
10:52 am
Because I do not think the Braves stand a great chance of signing Greinke long-term, I would not give up Teheran or Delgado in a trade for him. I think their value over the next 4-5 years will exceed Greinke’s value for 2.5 months.
I can see the Braves possibly doing it, but that would make me nervous.
Efrim
July 18th, 2012
10:53 am
One of those needs is a front end starter, such as Grienke.
Exactly. Starting pitching has now become just as important as LF, CF, bullpen and bench. It isn’t less of a need than those, certainly not given the importance of starting pitching.
I think some folks aren’t getting it. Right now, it’s Hudson, Hanson and 3 pitchers froma group of Minor, Teheran, Delgado and Medlen. Are folks ready for that?
And yes, I get that the issue can be addressed this offseason, but it’s also our glaring need right this moment – so why not cover 2013 as well?
DAP
July 18th, 2012
10:53 am
Efrim, im here. pitchers get lit up sometimes, happens to everybody.
please dont have me in the same category as MFin. i beg you.
TennesseePaul
July 18th, 2012
10:53 am
how do we afford a contract that could approach or exceed $20 mil annually on a team with a payroll of $90 mil with no sign of it escalating anytime soon?
Like they have in the past… by never getting a serious outfield bat, but just talking about it all the time.
Lew
July 18th, 2012
10:53 am
Though in Wren I trust. If he thinks Zack is the one and we can afford him, guess I’ll have to concede he knows what he’s doing cause I truly believe he does.