2:30 pm July 17, 2012, by David O'Brien
July 18th, 20128:51 am
Brian – You hope he comes up with a 3-1 K to BB rate? What makes you think that this is – or ever was – a vague possibility. Even when he was pitching well, he’s never exceeded 2.05-1 in his entire career.
Why would you expect something he never did even when he was pitching like an All Star? And why are strikeouts all that important to a pitcher who pitches to contact, anyway?
Not saying they should offer him a deal and not non tender him, but let’s get real here. This tiger ain’t changiung his stripes at this point in time. I’d just be happy if his BABIP came down.
Jurrjens and Minor for Matt Harrison, Elvis Andrus, and Neftali Feliz…
Well, Wren could try, anyway…
July 18th, 20128:52 am
If you’re the Braves, you cannot afford to tender a $7 million or more contract to someone who has statistically been one of the worst pitchers in baseball this year, on the hope that he “finds” what he used to have.
Totally agree. But some folks will still point to the 72 starts he had at the beginning of his career from 2008-2009…as if it has absolutely anything to do with the type of pitche Jair Jurrjens is now.
But please, let’s tender him a contract and head into 2013 with Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Delgado and Mike Minor…..
July 18th, 20128:53 am
If the Braves get their pitcher it will be to man the #1 slot in the rotation. We have nobody that is a #1 starter and we need that in the worst way obviously. I really think we will get Greinke and be able to sign him long term. The Rangers are waiting to make sure Oswalt is fully back and with Feliz due back soon they may pull out of the Greinke conversations. Sure would be nice to have a front of the rotation with Greinke and eventually Beachy.
July 18th, 20128:54 am
That was sure a nice game between Cy Young Zito and the Bad News Braves lastnight. Just an amazing display of baseball.
Efrim – Span is a solid, if not spectacular outfielder. He’s signed at a reasonable rate for several more years and has a reasonable buyout a couple years down the road. He would indeed, be a good acquistion – gives us bench strength now and fills one of the outfield openings for the next 2-3.
July 18th, 20128:55 am
Anyway, this is what I was talking about yesterday – following a tough loss, let’s see them come out and beat the Giants today. Often times this year, they have followed a loss by losing more games. Very streaky.
July 18th, 20128:56 am
Did he ever hit 90 on the gun last night?
July 18th, 20128:58 am
Make a deal with the Twins for Liriano and Span.
Lew, that’s sounding better to me at this point. I’m backing off the Braves’ acquiring Greinke. This “Greinke needs a rest to recharge his batteries” line is a big yellow flag to me.
Velocity wasn’t Jurrjens problem last night – it was leaving pitches up in the zone.
July 18th, 20129:00 am
We need to move Uggla’s pay off the books. He’s a black hole in our lineup.
I doubt Wren has entertained any serious intentions of retaining Jurrjens, regardless of what he does this season. Too much upside of future injuries. Too high a price tag for a pitcher prone to injuries.
Jurrjens is either non-tendered or traded, if he performs well enough and stays healthy.
July 18th, 20129:01 am
I wouldn’t necessarily say it wasn’t one of Jurrjen’s problems.. it just happened to be one of many problems. Hard to change speeds when your throwing one speed.
July 18th, 20129:03 am
Lew,I see Span as a good replacement for Bourn but I would prefer a different LF if we bring Bourn back. I guess they could trade him during the off season if they resign Bourn. Our new LF needs to have more power if Prado is to be our new 3B.
July 18th, 20129:04 am
Jurrjens velo was lower last night than it was in the previous few starts – but he couldn’t really command any of his pitches last night from the 1st inning on. It was ugly.
So after four straight good starts and one bad one, y’all are ready to throw JJ under the bus?
Hope he never pitches another game for the Braves?
With friends like y’all, who needs enemies …
They said on the radio early in the game that he was hitting 92, but when you can’t throw it below the belt it doesn’t matter what the speed is!!
July 18th, 20129:05 am
Never been an Uggla fan. But Wren wanted him for pop and he’s always been feast or famine.
And he’s locked in for what? Another three seasons after 2012?
I think Uggla will start to hit again. As I’ve said before, he’s sort of a Derrick Lowe (pre-2011). When all is said and done, you know Uggla will give you: 30/90/.250 or in that neighborhood.
“Often times this year, they have followed a loss by losing more games. Very streaky.”
Yeh, it seemed like another case of the Monday’s only Monday was an off day so the carried it over to Tuesday. Still gotta try and salvage the series. Nationals got a garbage win last night to make things worse. Hopefully the offense shows up tonight.
I’d only go after Span if I was sure Bourn wasn’t coming back. Wouldn’t want Span in LF and Bourn in CF. Span doesn’t provide enough offense to play a corner regularly.
Jeff R – I’ve been pretty outspoken about not wanting Grienke. I’ve seen all sorts of red flags all along. Maybe he would help (can’t have many more performances like last night for sure), but I really would rather they found other options.
But please, let’s tender him a contract and head into 2013 with Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Delgado and Mike Minor…..Efrim
Let’s not. Unless you plan on being a cellar dweller. That rotation isn’t remotely going to happen. JJ won’t be tendered and either Minor or Delgado will be dealt IMO. In 2013 I can see Greinke, Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, & Delgado. Now that is a solid rotation not to forget Beachy will be back late 2013.
July 18th, 20129:06 am
They said on the radio early in the game that he was hitting 92
Wow. Do not remember that. Saw lots of 86-88mph.
July 18th, 20129:08 am
CrαZy, I was watching the game and never saw a pitch hit 90. But he was definitely throwing uphill, just an aweful performance, but on the flip-side… our defense was horrific as well.
“Never been an Uggla fan.”
I really don’t like these statements. Everyone was a fan last year for at least 33 straight games. And not to mention the day we trade Mike Dunn and Omar Infante for him. Yeh the guy isn’t consistent, but we haven’t had many consistent guys in the Braves lineup for years. Maybe Chipper…that is about it. Everyone is streaky, I guess it is baseball, but it seems we have a few overly streaky guys.
Lew, I’m just not excited about a starting pitcher (Greinke) who needs a “rest” in the middle of a season. What’s that all about?
Efrim – I’m not sold on having to get certain performances and skill sets at certain positions. We have plenty of power coming from McCann, Uggla, Heyward and Freeman – plus a lot of XBH from Martin. Span hits a lot of doubles and a few HR and 3B. I don’t see him playing left as leaving us without approriate power prodcution.
He’ll get on base at a better than average rate, hit 30 doubles and can steal a base or two with excellent defense. We coiuld do much worse – and have.
July 18th, 20129:09 am
In 2013 I can see Greinke, Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, & Delgado.
Dadgum, Sheets has had one start and you are placing him into the rotation for next year?
This is sort of what I’m talking about with Jurrjens – people have to cool their jets on a small sample of some decent major league starts.
Personally, I’m looking at Jurrjens season as a whole including his work in Triple-A.
MFin04, I was not one of the ones happy about moving Dunn and Infante. Although, I began to warm to the fact it might turn out alright but it hasn’t.
July 18th, 20129:11 am
MFin04, t’wasn’t excited about the deal when Wren made it, really. Uggla’s streaky, period. Comes with the animal. Just not my type of player. But Uggla’s here. And I think his bat will heat up before all is said and done.
Here is the stat line I’d look at for Jair:
102.1 IP, 130 hits, 64 ER, 13 HR allowed, 32 BB’s, 49 K’s across 19 starts in Triple-A and the Majors in 2012.
July 18th, 20129:13 am
I saw a few 90’s and 91’s – but not many. Still, you can’t pitch up in the zone like that. His commande was not there last night .
I’m not sold on having to get certain performances and skill sets at certain positions
I like my left fielder to hit like a left fielder, Lew. Although I would love a defensive outfield of Heyward, Bourn and Span.
July 18th, 20129:14 am
Saying that there’s an issue with Greinke taking rest after starting 3 games? Then why can’t you throw Kimbrel out there every night.. I mean he only throws 1 inning and a lot of times very few pitches?
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to give him an extra few days of rest.. I mean what are we talking about? possibly one start missed?
July 18th, 20129:16 am
If the Braves sign Bourn, pop the champagne. I think the Braves will have two holes to fill in the outfield this winter.
July 18th, 20129:17 am
Efrim, the other issue if we were to sign Bourn and play Span in LF besides his light weight bat… he’s left handed. I’d prefer we’d find another RH bat if that’s the case.
July 18th, 20129:18 am
To me, Greinke seems like the only one out there who truly fits the Braves current and future need of a legit #1 starter
He’s had success
He’s a strikeout pitcher
He’s still fairly young
If this team is serious about making a deep playoff run, he is really the only one they need to focus on
I think that trio could match up well in the NLDS and then, add Sheets as a starter in the NLCS and WS should they get that far
It seems as though the Braves have been hesitant to let go of prospects the past few seasons and where has it gotten us? One playoff appearance.
Either go for it or develop the young guys, but you can’t really do both
Personally, I don’t really care about 2013 and beyond. As a fan, I’m invested in 2012 and want to see the team win NOW (especially with it being Chipper’s last year)
Someone wake up Freddie Freeman: .346/.435/.590 in his last 22 games, 92 plate appearances.
July 18th, 20129:19 am
“I was not one of the ones happy about moving Dunn and Infante.”
Yeh, neither was I. I liked both of those guys. Dunn had like a sub 1 era for a long time and Omar Infante was one of my favorite players, but an everyday utility guy and a lefty out of the bullpen for Uggla was a good deal. Uggla has been inconsistent, but so have Freeman and McCann and Heyward this year. Or maybe McCann has just been consistently bad? I dunno.
If everyone will remember, Uggla did start off pretty darn hot this year though.
Efrim…..we are projecting 2013 rotations. I’m not saying its a fact Sheets will be there at all. Agree we need more starts from him. He won’t win them all but at this point it is easy for me to say the Braves will keep him and he will start next year. Sheets isn’t the answer to our #1 slot need but it isn’t a long shot to project him into the rotation for 2013. I think amongst JJ, Delgado, and Minor two of those won’t be in the rotation in 2013 for one reason or another.
July 18th, 20129:20 am
I like Span. Not crazy about him. But I believe it’s around 11.75 million that he’s owed through 2014 and that’s a solid contract for his production. Since I think Bounr is a goner, he’d make a lot of sense to replace Michael.
aying that there’s an issue with Greinke taking rest after starting 3 games? Then why can’t you throw Kimbrel out there every night.. I mean he only throws 1 inning and a lot of times very few pitches?
Apples and oranges, I think. Starting pitchers get regular “rest” between starts.
Today, starting pitchers are expect to make 30-35 starts, 6-7 innings a game… They’re not exactly expected to be iron men.
July 18th, 20129:21 am
I feel a win tonight. 50-40 through 90 games, here we come.
July 18th, 20129:23 am
MFin, how you doing? You okay this morning? Was waiting for you and DAP to show up. Hope you both didn’t watch the game in the first 4 innings last night.
MVPrado14…….total cosign at 9:18. Amen and amen.
50-40 looks pretty good. And Efrim didn’t you read the MLB Sports Report about Michael Bourn! Shame on you, we got him locked up.
Steve from OH
July 18th, 20129:24 am
Ugly, ugly, ugly.
Uggla has been inconsistent, but so have Freeman and McCann and Heyward this year. Or maybe McCann has just been consistently bad? I dunno.
Uggla’s profile is inconsistency, in that he’s streaky. Freeman’s M.O. at Gwinnett and last season in Atlanta is that he heats up mid-season (and he did have an eye problem early on). Heyward was struggling with adjustments. That began last season. It’s taken him a while to get over the curve.
July 18th, 20129:25 am
Efrim – And I like my Left Fielder to add something the team needs and don’t care if certain psoitions do certain things offensively.
Like I said, we have plenty of power and Span will hit 30 doubles at the end of our lineup if Bourn remains or maybe even hitting second if Bourn leaves. It’s what he adds to the mix as far as I’m concerned and I think he’d be a good addition.
July 18th, 20129:26 am
Well, I’d like to see us run off wins the next 2 nights.. just to shake the stigma of the roller coaster hot and cold persona we’ve developed this season.
July 18th, 20129:29 am
Transplant – Enough with this starting three consecutive games crap. Grienke threw four freaking pitches the first game – FOUR FREAKING PITCHES – and then went two innings the next day. He then had a st on four days rest.
WTF would his excuse be if he had to pitch two or three games in a seven game LCS or World Series?
July 18th, 20129:31 am
And Efrim didn’t you read the MLB Sports Report about Michael Bourn! Shame on you, we got him locked up.
I think we can safely say that MLBSportsReport is not like MLBTradeRumors. Not in any way.
I wouldn’t mind if the pitcher we end up obtaining was Wandy Rodriquez, solid major league pitcher with one more year of control. He has pitched well in that Houston bandbox.
July 18th, 20129:32 am
Looking at Fan graphs… looks like he hit 92 once!! Jim must have commented about that one pitch durring the broadcast!!
He said “that pich at 92… that’s the JJ we are use to seeing when JJ is at his best”
“Was waiting for you and DAP to show up. Hope you both didn’t watch the game in the first 4 innings last night.”
I was on last night for a while, Murph was there, didn’t see you though. I’m fine. Just an overall terrible game, I think if everyone showed up last night it could have been a much closer game. Just one of those nights where nothing seemed to go right and all the little things exploded into big things.
And Freedie Freeman kills a ball, bounces of the top of the wall instead of going out, and we still get shutout. Yanish and Pastornicky lit it up though.
July 18th, 20129:33 am
Prefer Bourn to extend, but Craig Gentry would be a nice replacement. He is doing very well this year in a part time role,m just needs a chance to shine full time, dude can fly.
Lew, I really doubt he threw just 4 pitches.. I’m pretty sure he went through the entire warm up process before the game. There is a time a preparedness before the game, I rest assure you there is, I get it however your not a Greinke fan and you want Liriano.
July 18th, 20129:34 am
3 of Jurrjens 10 starts in Triple-A had a similar result as last night: 10 ER, 6 ER, 6 ER.
Always a possibility that he blows up and completely doesn’t give the team a chance to win. 30% of the time. That’s a concern. Whether it’s physical or not, and I think it is, he just isn’t the same pitcher we saw in the first half of 2011 and isn’t close to the same pitcher he was in 2009.
CrαZy, yeah it wasn’t pretty.. just be glad you were listening and not watching.
July 18th, 20129:35 am
“And I like my Left Fielder to add something the team”
Braves seem to consistently have a terrible player in LF. It has kinda been solved by Martin playing there, but he really isn’t a left fielder and is moving to third next year I’d assume. But I think the Braves do need to find a superstar to play 3rd or LF and let Martin find a home at the vacant position. Can’t be that hard to find a LF that can mash and sucks at defense, right?
July 18th, 20129:36 am
So last night was fun, no?
July 18th, 20129:38 am
Depends which side of the fense your on.
July 18th, 20129:39 am
Wow – He warmed up – twice. He should sue for overuse. Sheesh – buncha wussies.
Like I said – what happens if we make it to the NLCS and he has to pitch two or thee games out of seven and then has to do it again in the WS? Collapse from exhaustion and take a two week vacation at Shady Pines Rest Home?
Who would of thought during the Spring that this team was potentially going to have to head into the offseason with the need to completely revamp the starting rotation? Amazing. Baseball is crazy.
fence.. just noticed
July 18th, 20129:41 am
Though I guess he could have it written into his five year $100 mil contract that he gets regular spa treatments and mud wraps.
July 18th, 20129:42 am
Lew, it’s been stated this isn’t something he asked for.. and somethign he really didn’t want to do. So I’m not exactly sure why it concerns you so much? Last I checked, he’s still a Brewer.
“Always a possibility that he blows up and completely doesn’t give the team a chance to win.”
I don’t think he blew up last night. The team blew up last night. If guys don’t catch balls, umps miss calls, pitchers don’t tag bases, hitters don’t hit worth a lick, you’re never going to win a game. His location wasn’t great, but I wouldn’t say he blew up. The game kinda blew up on the team. Collectively a bad effort last night.
July 18th, 20129:43 am
Not that I want to see the Dodgers lose, but I never thought it was near the team they showed the first six weeks of the season. It’s not a good baseball team, imo. Very surprised if they stay in it.
Nationals, Braves, Reds, Cardinals and the Giants are the cream of the crop in the National League. Not a issue to see the Dodgers, Marlins, Mets, Phillies, Pirates, Brewers, D-Backs consider themselves still in it – but I don’t believe in those teams.
As funny as your trying to be.. it probably happens more than we know.
July 18th, 20129:44 am
I have the name of a couple of good doctors that can help you. Seriously, that first line of the paragraph is jaw-dropping.
July 18th, 20129:45 am
Though I guess he could have it written into his five year $100 mil contract that he [Greinke] gets regular spa treatments and mud wraps.
Greinke a mud-wrap guy? Get out of here!
Why it concerns me? Dude, have you actually listened to many of the posts the past two weeks? You are aware that both bloggers and runor mongers both believe Grienke will be a Brave?
July 18th, 20129:46 am
“Who would of thought during the Spring that this team was potentially going to have to head into the offseason with the need to completely revamp the starting rotation?”
Well the Beachy injury was tough on the team, but I’ve never been sold on all the young guys. Minor, Delgado, and Teheran to this point have been a disappointment and I’m not sure you can ever count on them being the starters they were touted to be.
I say trade the entire minor league system for Verlander and be done with all the speculation.
The Atlanta Braves will try to sign Martin Prado to a multi-year deal and view him as the heir apparent to Chipper Jones at third base, sources say.
More of the same that we posted from his twitter feed. Just good to see that they want him at 3rd base where he absolutely belongs.
July 18th, 20129:47 am
But it hasn’t happened yet.. and you’ve stated over and over you don’t believe it will happen. So I wouldn’t worry too much about what the Brewers’ manager decides to do with his pitcher.
July 18th, 20129:48 am
If Greinke didn’t ask for the time off, why would management give it to him? Concerned about an injury? Fatigue? Not even into August yet. Just what gives?
You idiots are talking about all of these possible trades, and what will really happen at trade time is “NOTHING” Wren did this exact same thing last year, Who did he trade for? NoBody!! — jt
Um, how to break this gently to jt….
MFin04 – To be fair, in a perfect world Teheran and Delgado shouldn’t even have been at the MLB level yet.
Efrim – I’m not going to argue about last night, don’t really have the desire to, but did you watch the game? No one would put all of that on the pitcher. Heck read all the post game quotes. They were actually accurate last night. Just a bad night overall for the team.
But I will say this, Jurrjens owned it all. Said his location sucked, didn’t make excuses, and is ready to move on to the next start. I like that in him. Hopefully he can get back on the mound soon and pitch well.
July 18th, 20129:50 am
Transplant – You mean why should I care like you did with Berkman and plenty of others did with Beltran?
July 18th, 20129:51 am
Just good to see that they [the Braves] want him [Prado] at 3rd base where he absolutely belongs.
July 18th, 20129:52 am
Hudson, Hanson and 3 starters from Minor, Teheran, Delgado and Medlen are the projected rotation for 2013. A starter for the rest of this year and 2013 is a desperate need. I’m cool to go with Delgado and Teheran as the #4/5 starters next yeart. But we need another arm, badly.
It’s amazing how one’s outlook can go from being rainbows and puppy dogs to doom and gloom in just a couple of hours. I’m speaking about myself, not anyone else.
After the 7 game win streak I was really feeling good about the Braves. One ass-whoopin’ later and I feel like they are doo-doo.
The SP is what really has me down. I don’t have faith in a single guy to go out and get the job done. We don’t have anyone on the staff that I’d feel good about being on the mound for the wild card play-in game.
A good game tonight will help me get over it… but I’m having a hard time shaking this feeling that the trade deadline is going to come and go and the Braves are going to miss out on any significant upgrades.
July 18th, 20129:53 am
“To be fair, in a perfect world Teheran and Delgado shouldn’t even have been at the MLB level yet.”
Ok, but they’ve been up for what 2 or three years now? I mean if they aren’t ready, why are we bringing them up and down, up and down?
I guess maybe it is just the fact that we hoped they’d be great for the beginning, now they’ve struggled and it seems they may not recover. I suppose that is how it goes with young guys learning to pitch.
July 18th, 20129:54 am
Man that game was brutal last night. Almost as brutal as Deceived “starring” the worst acting trio to headline a movie: Liam Neeson, Andy MacDowell and Vigo Mortensen. I turned off the game and flipped that on… just couldn’t escape the train wreck. it was a long night.
On the positive side, Freeman kept his streak alive and increased his AVG, OBP, and SLG.
July 18th, 20129:55 am
Mike Trout hit a 442-foot opposite-field homer last night. Kid’s pretty amazing. Who’d have believed a 20-year-old rookie (Trout) and Mark Trumbo would both overshadow Albert Pujols on his own team this season?
July 18th, 20129:56 am
MFin 04 – Actually only since last year – Delgado made several starts and I think Teheran has made five or six. They are not experienced at the big league level in any significant fashion.
I’m cool to go with Delgado and Teheran as the #4/5 starters next yeart. But we need another arm, badly.
A really good arm will be needed if those two make up 40% of the rotation. I like those kids, but they are kids and kids struggle. It’s preferred that you only have one guy learning the ropes at a time.
And both are an ancient 21 years old. I doubt their shelf life has expired.
but I’m having a hard time shaking this feeling that the trade deadline is going to come and go and the Braves are going to miss out on any significant upgrades.
Wren rightly keeps his trade discussions well under the radar. I have no doubt he’s exploring more than a few options for upgrades. But it takes two to tango, as they say.
I can’t see Wren making deals that compromise the future just to go for it this season. But I can see him giving up real value for roster improvements that help now and moving forward.
“We don’t have anyone on the staff that I’d feel good about being on the mound for the wild card play-in game.”
Well Hudson usually is that guy, Hanson and Jurrjens used to be those guys too, maybe all 3 become those guys again and so can Sheets. We will see.
At least our offense is a lot better than the one who threw out there against the Giants in the playoffs….that team couldn’t win a game offensively if we had 4-out innings. The Braves can finally win games with their offense as displayed in the Mets series. Now if pitching can come along, that’d help. But I do think there is room for one more starter to replace one of the young guys, and is insurance for the four other starters.
Brian from SC
Lew, the 3:1 K/BB ratio was just a number I pulled out. 2:1 is what he averaged in when he was good, but 3:1 would have been the kind of ratio he would have in his really good games. Jair needs several really good games, immediately.
July 18th, 20129:57 am
Who’d have believed a 20-year-old rookie (Trout) and Mark Trumbo would both overshadow Albert Pujols on his own team this season?
It’s a reasonable expectation.
Are you serious? You really think Wren won’t make a trade for a starter? Honestly, I have no doubts whatsoever. Wren will obtain a starting pitcher within the next two weeks. Cost be damned. He isn’t going to chance it when the starters have amassed a 4.27 ERA, good for 13th in the National League – where the pitcher bats, for crying out loud.
July 18th, 20129:58 am
Lew, and it looked like I turned out to be correct about Berkman too, right? I don’t see an issue with wanting certain players or seeing worth in certain players. I mean, are you the one calling and have been calling for Span? I mean, do we really need another LH hitter on this already LH’ed heavy team that already struggles against LHP?
You suppose that’s how it goes with young pitchers? Ya think?
And they may not recover? Seriously? What is THAT based on?
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