2:30 pm July 17, 2012, by David O'Brien
July 17th, 20122:31 pm
Thanks for the work DOB.
July 17th, 20122:36 pm
I wasn’t saying that phil actually is all that negative, I realize that a lot of his comments are facetious. however he doesn’t make enough positive comments to let others know that IMO, and I often see his name brought up as an example of the prevailing negativism and i’m not sure he realizes that. wasn’t a cut at him
July 17th, 20122:38 pm
Is ESPN carrying the game tonight? Frustrating that the SFO games are blacked out here in Hawaii. We’re part of their “market.”
July 17th, 20122:40 pm
Very surprised there has been no talk of the Braves going after a RP at the break when I feel that is probably the only thing standing in our way. We don’t need another SP, we just meed either our current SP to go deeper into games or for Wren to add another solid arm in the pen. Simmons will get back soon and will revamp this offense as soon as it starts to struggle again
Breaking down Hanson’s new mechanics and delivery.
I just wish he’d start using his change up more frequently.
Braves Fan in Maine
July 17th, 20122:41 pm
Good work DOB….. hope the braves can get another sweep…. but as long as we win the series that would be good!!! Lets make a deal
Very surprised there has been no talk of the Braves going after a RP at the break when I feel that is probably the only thing standing in our way.-Runner
MLBTR two hours ago – The Braves are looking at possible bullpen upgrades in addition to starting pitching options, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter).
on MLB TV here Woody
July 17th, 20122:42 pm
But yes, the rotation still needs to be upgraded.
July 17th, 20122:43 pm
But with Sheets on board, if he stays healthy these next couple of weeks, I think it decreases the likelihood of the Braves mortgaging part of the future by trading away multiple prospects in any deal to acquire a starter before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.
Even if he does stay healthy, he got hurt often two years ago and you’d hate to be left with that after 8/1. Makes so much sense to add a starter not only for the stretch run, but for 2013 as well.
Thanks, nolie. Looks like the old time radio hour for me.
July 17th, 20122:44 pm
@Woody I think the game is on MLB Network, if you get that.
July 17th, 20122:46 pm
the dart throwing is always a potential negative as it can cause timing issues. if it does not, it in and of itself adds little stress
July 17th, 20122:47 pm
Thanks, kyle, but we’re blacked out on SF games on MLB–tv and on-line
I think if we don’t get a starter by the trade deadline, that would have to be seen as a failure.
July 17th, 20122:48 pm
Sheets question mark, JJ question mark, Minor question mark, Huddy health question mark, Hanson???????
Yeah we cannot go remainder of season with a solid pickup. It will happen.
Awesome post, unbelievable. Especially thought his conclusion was a good take on it:
I think it’s pretty clear that Hanson has cut down on some of the things that will stress his posterior shoulder: The recoil has been significantly diminished. However, so is his fastball velocity, and I highly doubt that will return. A better solution to cutting down on unnecessary posterior shoulder stress and retaining the fastball velocity may be learning to use the shoulders in a more complete manner to provide a longer, more efficient deceleration path. The “dart-throwing” aspect of his arm action is far down the list of things to worry about, if it’s even something to focus on at all.
However, this is a perfect example that shows that rotation = velocity. Cutting down on rotation in hopes of solving another problem will come at a price. Can Hanson use these mechanics and diminished fastball velocity to return to form as a 3.20 – 3.80 xFIP kind of pitcher, a clear No. 2 in the rotation? Only time will tell. But while going from 93 to 90 might not be too bad, going from 90 to 88 could be a drastic difference to hitters, as fastball effectiveness does not diminish in a 1:1 ratio with lost velocity.
July 17th, 20122:49 pm
I have said b4 what DOB just did, another great start by Sheets especially, and i can see them possibly passing on a starter.
July 17th, 20122:50 pm
there’s nothing better than coming off vacation to find a DOB column awaiting.
July 17th, 20122:51 pm
He definitely is in the 88-90 with about 3-5 fastbals that touch 91 or maybe 1 that gets to 92.
So Boston cools on Dempster, and now that Nats. Don’t think they have the cash.
July 17th, 20122:52 pm
the best solution might be to develop more leg drive and thus not have to change his current arm approach. prolly not gonna happen.
however anybody who says that they always loved hanson’s mechanics is IMO a questionable source about pitching
July 17th, 20122:53 pm
And that’s a terrible thing and may bite them in the arse come the last three weeks in the season when another win or two from a Dempster or Garza might of meant the division or wild card. Tired of this hokie pokie one foot in one foot out stuff. It’s never been such a poor National League talent wise – time to go for it is now.
July 17th, 20122:54 pm
another great start by Sheets and I think we will see the Braves move from wanting a top of the rotation starter to adding a #3 starter.
I wonder how many good starts by Sheets it will take to get the Braves to talk extension with Sheets
I think more than potential injury is his innings pitched. The guy hasn’t done it a while (119 innings pitched two years ago) so while he could dominate for a bit, I’d imagine fatigue will come into play which makes getting another top shelf ace important.
Add to all of that, if the Braves are a wild-card team, they’ll need to have another top line starter for that “wild card day” Bud is drooling over.
I recall the back end of the rotation also picked it up a bit when Medlen was sent down to get stretched out. Then when it was apparent he would not take a starter spot they had a relapse. So here we are again with a gun being held to Minor’s head until at least the rest of July so expect him to notch it up. But what will he become in Aug/Sep when he is once again comfortable? I suppose/hope he can be motivated with the thought of Delgado lurking.
July 17th, 20122:55 pm
however anybody who says that they always loved hanson’s mechanics is IMO a questionable source about pitching
He did do an article way back when Tommy was coming up and said he wasn’t worried at all about his mechanics. Comes to be that they did indeed need to change, and therefore, the pitcher coming up has vanished and now we have more of a #3 instead of a #1/2.
Tired of this hokie pokie one foot in one foot out stuff.
Agreed. Very tired of this “but he costs too much/he isn’t worth the money or prospects” tag line. This team will never win with that mindset.
July 17th, 20122:56 pm
If Sheets has a decent start and they stay pat and make wildcard and not advance, I call that a extremely disappointing season. Lost one guy so far(Beachy), have had guys out but they are back. This current staff doesn’t have enough firepower to advance deep.
If FW stays pat and the team gets past the wildcard game and eventually into the NLCS, well he’s GM of the century not year.
You got Bourn last season to make a run. Chipper’s last year, he makes a move IMO.
The thing with Sheets is this. I believe he can be a solid #4 or #5 at this point in his career. Expecting him to go toe to toe with a Matt Cain, Stephen Strasburg, Clayton Kershaw, or anyone of that nature would be foolish.
July 17th, 20122:57 pm
prolly right Efrim, I am just kinda skeptical that they will spend what it takes, plus of course its the old reverse psychology thingy too
July 17th, 20122:58 pm
I’d imagine fatigue will come into play which makes getting another top shelf ace important.
Agreed. I’d actually not mind Hudson starting that game – but wouldn’t really be comfortable with anyone else and that’s the issue. Just get me “Big Game” James and call it a day.
With all the question marks in our rotation, I think we need 2-3 more top of the rotation starters.
Then we can take the others out back and put them out of their misery.
many folks in pitching thought Tommy was a walking time bomb, and most all were worried about too much arm stress
July 17th, 20123:00 pm
The recoil has been significantly diminished. However, so is his fastball velocity, and I highly doubt that will return
Pitch FX lumps all fastballs as one, so a 2-seamer is lumped in with a 4-seamer and then averaged. I’d be very interested to see those two pitches extracted and averaged for Hanson this year.
Huddy’s a competitor man, I will take him to win one game. Don’t think he is Carpenter like though and will win you 2 or 3 in a series though(few are) That’s where Dempster would be big. Game 2 starter.
Efrim – I sure hope Wren doesn’t wait too long, and let the Nats grab Dempster? Seems like every time Braves are looking ast a major pitcher. Some one grabs him, and it hurts the Braves down the stretch. Wren, just don’t hold out too long on any of the pitchers on the list. My advice to you……
July 17th, 20123:01 pm
So help me, if I see that sort of talk – “he isn’t worth it” or “he’s not much better than what we have”…
Ummmm. Does everyone realize that Polished is our #5 right now? Zack Greinke or Matt Garza ain’t better than Mike Minor? Please. That could be the extra couple wins we need to lock up the division.
My hat’s off to Ben Sheets. Considering the injuries, the two years out of the League, the immense pressure he had to feel coming back to a new team — how could he have been any better?? That was as good a performance as I have ever seen. The man has true grit, determination, and the will power to make it happen. Rare in this day and time… GO BRAVES! All the way! Forget winning one for the Gipper. Let’s win one for the Chipper in his last dance!! World Series, baby!
July 17th, 20123:02 pm
good news is we traded for Dempster, bad news is we had to put him on the DL for the third time this season and have no idea how long it will take this time…..
I remember watching him before he came up. Couple times he pitched in ST and gassed 98/99mph. And then everything I’d read was about his delivery. Good or bad, people focused on that from the getgo.
July 17th, 20123:03 pm
It certainly would be intriguing if the Braves made the playoffs as a wild card team and had to face off in a one game winner take all duel with the Pirates, twenty years after the famous Sid Bream slide. The Pirates would certainly be motivated.
I know, that is a long way off. Back to the present. Please bring in another quality starting pitcher, Wren.
Lets Go or somethin’ !!
July 17th, 20123:04 pm
no risk, no reward
nolie, I would guess what Sheets does is separate from what the Braves will go after in the trade market. If a trade isn’t made, I think it will have more to do with what other teams are asking and what the Braves don’t want to part with.
I don’t think even 3-4 more impressive starts from Sheets changes all that much in the way of what the Braves are in the market for. Sheets is still an injury risk, no matter how well he throws in his next few starts. So I think ideally the Braves still want to get one of the better starters on the market, if they can make a trade work. And I honestly don’t think Sheets performing well in multiple starts would change what they are willing to give up or not give up. It may help with leverage because Sheets may allow the Braves to appear less desperate for pitching.
Mike Minor is over rated, and way over rated. Braves could do better. All , have a good one, and talk tonight after the game. Dempster, or Liriano. Go the Distance Wren……Peace my friends, and “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
Please NO Dempster!
I’ve seen some really straight 88’s and 89’s, TenneseePaul. If that’s his two seamer, he needs to work on getting some more run on it.
Like I said, maybe an additional offseason of shoulder strengthening will make him a better pitcher. If not, and we get similar 2012 results, then I’ll be much more open to trading him with 2 more seasons of control left.
always been talk about his delivery since he started and most of it was negative. the best thing was that at least it was not an inverted w…..
July 17th, 20123:05 pm
Ben Sheets is now my favorite Brave after Sunday’s performance and the celebration with his son’s in the clubhouse.
We have 2 weeks until the trade deadline. Somebody might need to go out and get a few bottles of valium for the blog………
July 17th, 20123:06 pm
be patient, make Zito throw strikes and then crush ‘em
And if Sheets injuries himself again, Braves miss the playoffs, Wren’s ass should be run offf imo. The man is a walking injury. Nothing at all against him, but to depend on him to stay healthy is irresponsible.
Also, Hudson’s ankle problem probably effects him the rest of the way.
Phillies back at full-strength…..Their ace is on the hill tonight in L.A….
dempster is going to be traded by the end of the week…. I would agree.. to me it seems like more teams are in the playoff hunt and pitching is a number one on alot of contending teams… the braves should try to get him but if cubs want to much then move on to another pitcher!
Nevertheless, I’m curious to see the numbers.
July 17th, 20123:07 pm
And then everything I’d read was about his delivery. Good or bad, people focused on that from the getgo.
Buster Olney had a blog about how great he was in Spring of 2009 but cautioned that folks were concerned about his delivery. And here we are….
July 17th, 20123:09 pm
Nats are playing with the Braves people I bet. They get somebody to go to writers itching for news and tell them they are after Dempster. The hope is that the Braves (their biggest threat in the division) makes a panic move.
Rather than trade for a starter, I’d prefer a relever (Beimel or Lyon) then move Medlen to the rotation.
And if Sheets injuries himself again, Braves miss the playoffs, Wren’s ass should be run offf imo.
He will take big heat if they do nothing(or just get a pen arm and a bench bat) and miss. And he’ll deserve every bit of it – which is why I think we’re going to be making a deal for a starter.
July 17th, 20123:11 pm
Hanson will always hit a wall in his career. That is my prediction. Soon as you think he’s progressed, he steps back and stays there. He’s nothing special.
July 17th, 20123:12 pm
efrim Tired of this hokie pokie one foot in one foot out stuff. It’s never been such a poor National League talent wise – time to go for it is now.
i totally agree, and the last two offseasons have been very frustrating to me, when there are useful players gotten for next to nothing and the braves kind of drag their feet.
in 2010, getting farnsworth and ankiel was weak, and really ticked me off. last year, bourn was awesome, but no bullpen help, which is probably the easiest thing to find at the trade deadline?
this year, the NL is ripe for the braves, and getting help in any of the SP, RP, or bench categories could go a long way. ive said before, it doesnt have to be a SP, but do something. there are some really good relievers on some terrible teams, as well as some good bench bats. dont stand pat, wren.
Yer always thinkin’ ain’tcha?
Exactly what they’re doing….and we’ll bite.
I think people are too obsessed with one start from Sheets. Yes, he pitched much much better than anyone could expect. However, he was about a foot away from a Daniel Murphy 2 run hr in left center field and he gave up a ton of fly ball outs. I want to see more before I jump to conclusions and say he’s back. I also hope he can teach Hanson a thing or two.
I have major concerns about Huddy and that ankle after watching his velocity drop to 86-88 in his last start.
Braves definitely need to upgrade the rotation no matter how Sheets pitches in his next start.
Bozo ( The Clown )
bla bla bla he had 1 good start against a sh!t offense, guaranteeing a giants sweep.. anytime hopes get high in georgia the team folds..just saying, dont say you werent warned
July 17th, 20123:13 pm
Hanson is trying to rely on his slider too much now, 30% of all his pitches. Plus, he’s completely abandoned his change up.
I said what Olney said in 2009 too.
Hanson’s a bumb.
July 17th, 20123:14 pm
If the Nats are indeed putting Strasburg on a innings limit, why wouldn’t they make a deal for another starter? I don’t know how confident they would be with Gio, Zimmerman, and Detwiler in a series. They can bump an Edwin Jackson or Detwiler to bullpen. They have guys like Anthony Rendon who they could put in a deal.
Nothing better than watching the Braves play well…Lets keep it going. Go Braves!
Believe me, every time Sheets pitches or the following days after one of his starts, people will be wondering in the back of their minds if that’s the last they see of him. Wren just can’t play cheap here and cross his fingers.
Hey, that kid Simmons summed it up perfectly – you have to take chances in this game.
July 17th, 20123:16 pm
I really hope the Braves get Dempster. I believe he has the clubhouse presence and mound presence to get us deep into the playoffs. Also, we wouldnt have to give up too much in the way of prospects, which we would have to do to get Greinke, who apparently needs his batteries recharged, WTF!?
Dempster would be the rock we need.
Like I’ve said, it’s a big next six months for Frank and Co.
July 17th, 20123:17 pm
I was wondering how long it would be before someone would say Medlen needs to move to the rotation.
1 good start against a sh!t offense
where do mets rank in runs scored?
at least good for nolie – with game day, the “realists” seem to be returning to melt away all sugary feeling from the blog
July 17th, 20123:18 pm
Plus, he’s completely abandoned his change up.
Fastball used to sit 92-94mph and now it sits 88-90mph. Changeup speed hasn’t gone down as Fastball velocity has, so it wouldn’t be as of an effective pitch for him anyway.
July 17th, 20123:19 pm
with 10 teams interested in him, Dempster ain’t gonna be all that cheap
if both of them go 9 inn., Zito will likely have 1.1 more K than JJ
July 17th, 20123:20 pm
Efrim – you thinkin Frank Wren gets the axe?
we need NBA style 4-team trade
kill him off in an “accident” , collect the insurance and get a replacement….
July 17th, 20123:21 pm
And it’s darned easy for you folks to do trades on the blog here, with absolutely no skin in the game. FW is in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.
Very easy to GM from your keyboard. Darned hard when you have to face the consequences of your actions.
And what is good enough? Only 1 team in 30 (realistically 10) will win it all. If you don’t win it all, or at a minimum go to the WS; will getting into the playoffs be enough?
I’m hoping we win it all. Health, development, luck, timing. But I’d be willing to bet that we probably won’t take the big prize.
Some folks will be upset if we don’t win it all. So I ask a question: What will satisfy you?
no matter what happens, its pretty unlikely that Wren gets canned
July 17th, 20123:22 pm
which we would have to do to get Greinke, who apparently needs his batteries recharged, WTF!?
I’m not sure he needs to “recharge his batteries” as much as get back into a normal pitchers routine. They had him start 3 games in a row! (He was thrown out in the 1st inning of one game, started the next day, and then started the first game after the All-Star break.) I think he’ll be fine in his next start, and they will probably give him 2 starts to showcase before seeing what their best offer is.
I dont know. They may only have until October. After JS’s letter to the fans and Wren taking the gamble of bringing back the same team, he may have a short leash. Overall, Wren has done a good job with his resources, but only one wild card berth in 5 years isnt good enough. This team needs consistency.
July 17th, 20123:23 pm
sure, Greinke’s troubles are all on that three games
July 17th, 20123:24 pm
you thinkin Frank Wren gets the axe?
No and too early to tell on that. Even if they miss, I don’t think so. But spend dollars and revamp the roster this winter and miss again next year? Makes the waters much more murky. One postseason appearance in six seasons is just not acceptable for an organization with this much talent and yes, a mid-market payroll(plenty if allocated well enough). Whether it was a trade he did or didn’t make, sooner or later it’s gotta be about results….
but only one wild card berth in 5 years isnt good enough.
sure cause all the other teams did so much better
Atlanta Braves @Braves
Tonight’s lineup vs. SF (7:10, SPSO/680AM/BRN): Bourn 8 Prado 7 Heyward 9 Jones 5 Freeman 3 McCann 2 Uggla 4 Janish 6 Jurrjens 1
July 17th, 20123:25 pm
His changeup velocity has dropped from 83 to 80 other the past two years. I dont really think you can put too much stock into changeup velocity when its being used only 1 % of the time. Anything with a change of speed and being located properly can be an effective pitch.
July 17th, 20123:26 pm
DS1, ugh it’s a sports blog. We’ll play GM and twist our panties in a wad if we want to. Hell, I don’t have to face any of you people anyway. What do I care?
finally we have given up on the LRLRLRLR thingy
July 17th, 20123:27 pm
sure cause all the other teams did so much better
Didnt say it was fair, but after the collapse last year and no improvements over the offseason it could happen if the Braves miss the playoffs. Didnt say I wanted it to happen either.
you thinkin Frank Wren gets the axe?
My guess would be that Fredo is on much thinner ice than Wren is. If the Braves don’t make the playoffs this year, I’m betting that Fredo is gone. That COULD be the end for Wren as well, but it seems unlikely. I think his moves as the GM have been a positive overall, but it’s possible that if Fredo is fired then Wren will be fired as well, as Fredo was “his guy”.
I like that lineup. It will look even better with Simmon hitting 7th and Ugga 8th
“but only one wild card berth in 5 years isnt good enough.
sure cause all the other teams did so much better ”
Probably don’t think you would fine that on a mantle or plaque in the Cardinal’s executive offices. I think FW probably doesn’t use those words either.
July 17th, 20123:28 pm
Dempster is not going to be a Brave. He pitched his way off our radar by getting on the LAD, BoSox, etc. radar
I think it’s less that, and more that we’ve just given up on the Dan Uggla thingy (for the time being)
Brian from SC
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