scouts seem to love Bethancourt though, some say if he came up right now he’d be the best defensive catcher in the game, for him it’s all about developing his bat
Verlander, Hernandez, Strasburg, Cain(can’t believe I’m including him – but he’s there now), Halladay(provided he’s healthy), are probably my top 5 RHP’s.
I just don’t see that in a package headlined by Delgado and Bethancourt.
That’s because you’ve seen Delgado struggle. Influences your thinking. If he hadn’t come up this year, he’d have been burning up AAA and you’d be hugging him to a fare-thee-well.
Good GMs can see past early struggles and make a determination as whether that’s indicative or not. I imagine Delgado could still get some excitement from other GMs in a trade discussion, but I don’t know that Friedman would want to go that way.
Minor cannot be expected to grow into being the number three starter down the road unless he is allowed to pitch. If Sheets has another quality start – certainly as awesome as Sunday’s performance was – there is no point in trading for a starter. We already traded Todd Redmond for Janish, a valuable chip that could have been used in another trade package come winter time. It had to be done, so be it.
That said, I truly feel that another starter does not truly address this team’s real problems up and down the lineup, which are many for this season, as well as the near future. Those young arms everyone is so eager to trade for Greinke or the flavor of the moment, Dempster, are better left untouched at this time. At this time, I believe the impetus of a miraculous comeback by Ben Sheets continuing his fine work may be just enough to garner the Braves a division title or at least a WC spot this season.
Frank Wren would be much better served allowing this squad construct to play out the season, and, after careful post-season evaluation, trade some of those young arms for a LF, 3B, and possibly a CF if Bourn asks for too much.
I imagine Delgado could still get some excitement from other GMs in a trade discussion, but I don’t know that Friedman would want to go that way.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. Delgado still has lots of value. I’m just saying that for 2.5 years at 24.5 million of James Shields – I’d want a different headliner. Mike Olt from Texas. Nick Castellenos from Detroit.
Probably a good position player prospect, to be honest.
I just can’t see the advantage of trading for a Dempster or Liriano just to see them walk after the season.. or at least letting them walk. We’d be in the same place next season as we are now with question marks in the starting rotation. It makes more sense to go after someone like Greinke with the intent of signing him or someone like Garza that will be here after this season allowing some of these young guys to develop a bit more.
allowing some of these young guys to develop a bit more.
I imagine some of those young guys would be developing elsewhere, if they traded for one of the “G” guys.
If they are truly going to trade for a starter, then find the sweet spot between the Cus paying money and the Braves returning prospects, and get Dempster. Whatever pitchers go back to the Cubs in that deal aren’t likely to be in the Braves’ long-range plans, anyway, and the team is likely to have to a little work on pitching in the offseason already. A little more won’t make much difference.
Martin Prado is NOT the problem; why would Frank Wren trade him for a half-assed solution? Frank Wren is NOT going to get a Ryan Braun bat for Prado. Instead, Wren wants to trade talent and character for a no-character player who plays when he feels like it???
I normally don’t do this, but anyone on this blog who advocates ANY trade for an Upton is a blithering idiot. I’d rather have the Upton’s acquire their desperately-needed maturity elsewhere, if ever. Once a cancer, always a cancer.
I just can’t see the advantage of trading for a Dempster or Liriano just to see them walk after the season.. or at least letting them walk.
Which is sorta leading me to believe he will be after Matt Garza or James Shields(if made available). Not that Garza has top of the rotation starter written all over him. Just that if Wren is going to do this, he’ll want control for more than just two months. We’ll see.
Other than, say, Teheran, who’s been pretty dreadful this season, do we have any high-ceiling pitching prospects down on the farm? And high-ceiling hitters, while we’re at it?
Sure a lot of Cardinal bloggers were pretty upset that Colby Rasmus was dealt and thought he had huge upside. Worked out pretty well for the Cardinals.
Gilmartin is a good arm, so is Adam Northcutt, Gilmartin’s as a solid a #3 starter prospect as there is in the game, Northcutt probably a #4 or #5 though
to bad Carlos Perez went to pieces…..
Oh and Vizcaino of course, but he’s out with TJ surgery rehab, he may have a higher celing than Teheran, though Teheran is barely 21 and has plenty of time to work on his breaking ball control
And maybe Dempster is the option too, since I really don’t believe you’d have to give up Minor, Delgado or Teheran – or Bethancourt for that matter, for 2 months of Ryan Dempster.
They can be intrigued all they want. The fact that both brothers have a track record of volatile conduct detrimental to any clubhouse speaks to something I do not want in ours. I do not want a repeat of Yunel Escobar – regardless. There is something to be said for peace in the clubhouse and not having to play wet nurse to a wanna-be prima donna with anger management issues.
CAC (and me) disagree with you, and I think Minor has #2 potential, people seem to forget his rather valuable 2011, he works on his command a bit and pitch selection, he’s going to be a good pitcher
if they are truly looking for a tiop o’ the rotation guy, it seems to me like they would be looking for more than a rental.
Exactly. To scoots point, they need assets for this offseason to fill needs(outfield, pen, bench) but one of those needs now is a frontline starting pitcher. So if Wren is going to go for it, then trading one of Teheran, Delgado or Mike Minor makes sense right now for Matt Garza or James Shields or someone else we aren’t thinking about.
I wonder if due to his ankle issues that Hudson might be considering calling it quits this winter. Not only would it necessitate having another top rotation pitcher, but would free up $9 mil to acquire one.
there is no scouting report in the world that shows Minor as having even one solidly plus pitch, how in hell is he gonna be a #2? and Gilmartin is nothing special at all, even if he was a Seminole….
as for CAC, I had several arguments with one of the founders while he was here and didn’t lose any
Christian Bethancourt, Nick Ahmed, Matt Lipka, Edward Salcedo, Todd Cunningham are five position player prospects that would interest GM’s, I think.
Teheran, Gilmartin, Graham are the pitchers teams would want with Martin, Northcraft, Hale, Moore as additional pitchers to a lesser extent.
Mike Minor, Randall Delgado and Tyler Pastornicky are the non-prospect players they’d probably consider trading.
I’d hope that Wren does whatever he can to keep Danville RHP Mauricio Cabrera and SS Jose Peraza out of talks. Even though they are far away, be nice to leave Danville and GCL squads alone for now.
“They can be intrigued all they want. The fact that both brothers have a track record of volatile conduct detrimental to any clubhouse speaks to something I do not want in ours. I do not want a repeat of Yunel Escobar – regardless. There is something to be said for peace in the clubhouse and not having to play wet nurse to a wanna-be prima donna with anger management issues.”
You consider character, of course, but you also consider on-field production. John Schuerholz went out and acquired Gary Sheffield, a notorious locker-room headache, in the winter of 2001 because we desperately needed a fearsome bat. I don’t think Schuerholz is a blithering idiot. Sheffield helped us win 100+ games both years he was here.
For the record, I don’t think the Braves need Upton. But he is a good player. A really good player, in fact.
you don’t have a strikeout rate of 8.28 per 9 innings without good pitches, besides, you can be a good pitcher without any super plus pitches, you just have to have several good ones.
Wouldn’t a team want to win the wild card with stupid MLB playoff schedule this year? Two at home is huge compared to on the road for a WC team. Still don’t get the thought process behind whoever came up with this.
Shields will do well with a change of scenery. He would be an ideal candidate for the Braves with still another year or two of options.
The Braves would love Dempster but they will not give up Minor straight up for Dempster. The Cubs would have to throw in a significant prospect as well for them to get Minor
CAC (and me) disagree with you, and I think Minor has #2 potential,
Okay, so you and Ben Duronio, Frank Rabon and others think he is a #2 – even though the large majroity of the scouting world believe he had a ceiling of a #3 and to date, he has posted an ERA of 5.27 in 40 major league starts across 3 seasons. He hasn’t shown yet that he can touch a mid-rotation starters ceiling and heck, I still think he has that. Saying he is a #2 and debating about it is pointless. He hasn’t yet proven that he was a wrothy Top 10 pick and he hasn’t yet proven that he was a worthy 1st rounder.
and as far as Gilmartin is concerned, kid has excellent control, a flawless delivery and knows how to pitch, all the footage I have seen of him confirms this.
I don’t know why you argued with the folk at CAC (i assuem it was the classic scout vs sabre deal)
problem is that Minor has none. again with the Krate being all important.
thats the trouble with you exclusive stats folks, you have no feel for the game.
especially in pitchers stats are by no means even close to infallible.
nothing is impossible but Minor would need to better his command by a good bit to ever even approach a #2
you don’t have a strikeout rate of 8.28 per 9 innings without good pitches, besides, you can be a good pitcher without any super plus pitches, you just have to have several good ones.
Ya know, I’m a huge fan of K/9, but for crying out loud Nick, even when he was going good hitters were killing him for extra bases. He has never been able to limit the gap double. Like ever.
I still like Polished, but a #2 starter ceiling is a little too high, imo.
And not one of his pitches grades out as more than a tick above average(his changeup). That’s it. 50’s across the board.
Bay Area SteveIt’s why Mac is one of the best at it. And, impressively, probably THE best at the low strike. How a thick 6′5″ gets under a pitch 18″ off the ground is one of the reasons to watch ‘ball. Glove doesn’t move down an inch.
You got that right (except that BMac’s 6′-3″ )! Although that’s not something even I really came to appreciate until recently—doesn’t always get the call, but it sure works better than the other method…
I can’t believe how bad umpires are at their job, but if you let a computer do it, one of the biggest facets of being a catcher goes away.
For sure. They let a computer do it, and I’m pretty sure my days of watching would dwindle down to nothing…
of course you agree with them, but like I said I didn’t lose any arguments as things turned out.
as gor Gilmartin, polish is about all he has. he is a long way from being anything special either.
hide and watch them both for a few years
Minor cannot be expected to grow into being the number three starter down the road unless he is allowed to pitch. If Sheets has another quality start – certainly as awesome as Sunday’s performance was – there is no point in trading for a starter. We already traded Todd Redmond for Janish, a valuable chip that could have been used in another trade package come winter time. It had to be done, so be it.
Sheets is obviously still an injury risk. The Braves still need to improve run prevention this season. Depending on the return, I’m fine with trading one of the young starters. What are the chances that all three of them or even one of them turns in to an ace. Why wait until the offseason if something falls in to their laps now and when they are trying to win now?
I think Todd Redmond deserves a chance in the majors. But he’s no more than a back-end starter/long reliever. Paul Janish is a shortstop who can provide something above replacement-level value at the position because of solid defense.
1.4 WAR last year in 16 starts is #2/#3 quality performance on a division winning club
xFIP last year was 3.62 (this year it is 4.67 and dropping)
HR/FB rate has climbed this year, but that’s a stat that moves around a lot from year to year
IF he can cut his walk rate down from 3.9 to 2.9 he’s a legit #2/#3 starter ERA isn’t enough of the truth to base a scouting report of a pitcher on, especially a young pitcher
Glavine at 24 had a 4.28 ERA (after 105 starts) Minor at 24 has a 5.27 ERA (after only 40) at 43 starts Glavine’s ERA was 4.75
I think it’s a bit soon to just go tossing Minor to the curb
Jaded, the difference is that Sheffield by that time was a bona-fide veteran with on-again, off-again issues. We got REAL lucky and caught him during his “good” behavior year. Truthfully, he was OK from that point on.
The Uptons are still in their 20’s and sorely in need of major reconstructive character building and self-control, issues I certainly would not want any part of. You want THAT on your team? Have at it. Just not on the Braves.
not that I’m saying Minor will become Glavine, just pointing out that after only 40 starts we shouldn’t be passing final judgement on a guy who strikes out over 8 per 9 innings
and do not forget last season, you can’t ignore last seasons great pitching because you like to ram this years bad pitching down everyone’s throat, a player’s entire body of work MUST be considered
nolie
I played the game for 13 years until blowing out my shoulder in high school, I have been an asst coach in Babe Ruth league working with the pitchers there, I have been a baseball junky since I was 4 years old, so pardon me, but you can take you “don;t have a feel for the game” crap and stick it
Ryan Dempster told Bob Nightengale of USA Today that he’d be willing to re-sign with the Cubs this coming offseason even if he’s traded this summer.
I don’t like players saying this. I know as a FA they can sign anywhere they like, but I’m surprised MLB doesn’t have a rule against players signing with a team they were traded from the previous year! Or at least a rule saying they can’t sign him for below market value!! I doubt Dempster would sign below market value, but in some cases I could see it happen!!
it is also true. all youze guys are always with the IF this or IF that with no indication that IF will ever happen. and I’ve been fooling with stats since 1955 so poop about hating saber stats. I was pushing OBP b4 there ever was an official OBP..
and numbers are not facts, except in regards to what has already happened, as projecting devices they are not facts in any sense of the word.
Shaun, sometimes you gotta hedge a bet and risk that Sheets will be OK for the season. Beyond that, caveat emptor. I just feel that this team has WAAAY too many lineup holes to spend VALUABLE winter trade resources on a rent-an-arm for two months. We need too much down the road, that is certain. Trading for an arm right now on an uncertain run with a mercurial lineup that depends on a majority of the spots delivering in the absence of a reliable 30/100/.300 MVP bat is faulty at best, irresponsible stewardship at worst.
I say take the Ben Sheets truck and ride it this season ’til the wheels fall off. Use the winter to trade for that young LF slugger. That’ll solve two positions: LF & 3B.
maybe they say that because they don’t really wanna be traded? I don’t like to hear it either, but whatcha gonna do? It might give some teams who would be interested in an extension pause I guess
all you can judge a player by is what he has done and then what you can project him to do based on his age, what others similar have done , and what you see his issues to be.
Take Heyward, all signs pointed to him being exactly what he is now and to be a superstar by age 24/25…. so I had no worries about his struggles last year at all.
I’m not saying I think Minor will be a #2 on the 1996 Braves, but he could be a low #2 high #3 on the 2014 Braves
IF the Braves got Dempster, I doubt they’d be too interested in re-signing him anyway. His numbers are to inconsistent from one year to the next , and he’s getting older
better to use multiple yardsticks which your CAC buddies are very weak at.
and what is with the talk of Minor having a good year last season? he had a WHIP of almost 1.5 and an ERA+ of 94. the fact that he had a decent K-rate is more important than what he actually produced ?
I’m not saying he is trash but I am saying that he is a long long way from being as special as a #2 in a good rotation
NickB: a strong argument for standing pat on the trade front, taking a gamble on Ben Sheets’ productivity and health, as well as recognizing that anything short of the right LF MVP bat will not solve problems this season, or in the future. If the Braves could successfully trade for a Hamilton type bat with Martin Prado character and two-three years of team control, it is the only scenario I could be happy with prior to the July 31st deadline.
2,718 comments Add your comment
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:10 pm
this year, Gio has been better than Hamles too
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:11 pm
scouts seem to love Bethancourt though, some say if he came up right now he’d be the best defensive catcher in the game, for him it’s all about developing his bat
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:11 pm
Verlander, Hernandez, Strasburg, Cain(can’t believe I’m including him – but he’s there now), Halladay(provided he’s healthy), are probably my top 5 RHP’s.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:11 pm
might be., near the top of a very short list anyway
DiamondbackMac
July 16th, 2012
5:13 pm
Rest in peace Kitty Wells.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:13 pm
no beachy. what are you, a traitor?
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:14 pm
this year, Gio has been better than Hamles too
I still take Hamels over him. Lee would round out my Top 5. Bumgarner, Gonzalez are certainly a couple other good ones.
cabravesfan
July 16th, 2012
5:14 pm
Isn’t @MLBSportsReport the same person who Tweeted that Upton-for-Prado was a done deal?
I think so.
Nope. Just scrolled through the entire feed- nothing beyond “the Braves are interested” comment about Upton
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
I just don’t see that in a package headlined by Delgado and Bethancourt.
That’s because you’ve seen Delgado struggle. Influences your thinking. If he hadn’t come up this year, he’d have been burning up AAA and you’d be hugging him to a fare-thee-well.
Good GMs can see past early struggles and make a determination as whether that’s indicative or not. I imagine Delgado could still get some excitement from other GMs in a trade discussion, but I don’t know that Friedman would want to go that way.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
no beachy. what are you, a traitor?
Sigh. Makes me sad. Really wish he was 100% healthy. Hell, really wish Tommy Hanson were 100% healthy, but I don’t believe that’s true.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:16 pm
Nope. Just scrolled through the entire feed- nothing beyond “the Braves are interested” comment about Upton
Hot damn. Tim Dierkes better watch his rear end!
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:17 pm
Minor cannot be expected to grow into being the number three starter down the road unless he is allowed to pitch. If Sheets has another quality start – certainly as awesome as Sunday’s performance was – there is no point in trading for a starter. We already traded Todd Redmond for Janish, a valuable chip that could have been used in another trade package come winter time. It had to be done, so be it.
That said, I truly feel that another starter does not truly address this team’s real problems up and down the lineup, which are many for this season, as well as the near future. Those young arms everyone is so eager to trade for Greinke or the flavor of the moment, Dempster, are better left untouched at this time. At this time, I believe the impetus of a miraculous comeback by Ben Sheets continuing his fine work may be just enough to garner the Braves a division title or at least a WC spot this season.
Frank Wren would be much better served allowing this squad construct to play out the season, and, after careful post-season evaluation, trade some of those young arms for a LF, 3B, and possibly a CF if Bourn asks for too much.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:18 pm
I imagine Delgado could still get some excitement from other GMs in a trade discussion, but I don’t know that Friedman would want to go that way.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. Delgado still has lots of value. I’m just saying that for 2.5 years at 24.5 million of James Shields – I’d want a different headliner. Mike Olt from Texas. Nick Castellenos from Detroit.
Probably a good position player prospect, to be honest.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:19 pm
If this organization trades Martin Prado for EITHER Upton brother, Frank Wren deserves to get fired.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
5:19 pm
I just can’t see the advantage of trading for a Dempster or Liriano just to see them walk after the season.. or at least letting them walk. We’d be in the same place next season as we are now with question marks in the starting rotation. It makes more sense to go after someone like Greinke with the intent of signing him or someone like Garza that will be here after this season allowing some of these young guys to develop a bit more.
Frankie
July 16th, 2012
5:23 pm
MiaBchBravesFan
Pretty sure Chipper disagrees with you.
Don’t sound like a Tin Cup guy.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
5:23 pm
allowing some of these young guys to develop a bit more.
I imagine some of those young guys would be developing elsewhere, if they traded for one of the “G” guys.
If they are truly going to trade for a starter, then find the sweet spot between the Cus paying money and the Braves returning prospects, and get Dempster. Whatever pitchers go back to the Cubs in that deal aren’t likely to be in the Braves’ long-range plans, anyway, and the team is likely to have to a little work on pitching in the offseason already. A little more won’t make much difference.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm
Martin Prado is NOT the problem; why would Frank Wren trade him for a half-assed solution? Frank Wren is NOT going to get a Ryan Braun bat for Prado. Instead, Wren wants to trade talent and character for a no-character player who plays when he feels like it???
I normally don’t do this, but anyone on this blog who advocates ANY trade for an Upton is a blithering idiot. I’d rather have the Upton’s acquire their desperately-needed maturity elsewhere, if ever. Once a cancer, always a cancer.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm
The thought of Minor getting the ball in September with the Braves playoff hopes hanging in the balance is not a good thought.
I know he’s had his good starts and he’s had his bad starts, but his bad starts are hard to overcome… Freeman can only hit so many 3-run HR.
Then again, the thought of talking about the trade deadline for another 2 weeks is also a hard proposition to stomach…
I think I’ll pass on all trade talk until a move is made, and instead talk about sopapillas. Or maybe tamales.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm
Redmond had very little trade value as an organizational depth guy pushing 30 with no MLB playing experience
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm
I just can’t see the advantage of trading for a Dempster or Liriano just to see them walk after the season.. or at least letting them walk.
Which is sorta leading me to believe he will be after Matt Garza or James Shields(if made available). Not that Garza has top of the rotation starter written all over him. Just that if Wren is going to do this, he’ll want control for more than just two months. We’ll see.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:25 pm
if they are truly looking for a tiop o’ the rotation guy, it seems to me like they would be looking for more than a rental.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:26 pm
Well, Frankie, I’m glad Chipper’s not the GM, although which is the lesser of two evil?
stamper
July 16th, 2012
5:27 pm
Other than, say, Teheran, who’s been pretty dreadful this season, do we have any high-ceiling pitching prospects down on the farm? And high-ceiling hitters, while we’re at it?
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
5:28 pm
he’ll want control for more than just two months.
It definitely makes more sense in resources.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
5:28 pm
“I am 99% sure this MLB Sports Report is fake. They certainly arent on twitter”
Yes, because if they were on Twitter or Wikipedia…then we would KNOW it was true.
Frankie
July 16th, 2012
5:29 pm
Sure a lot of Cardinal bloggers were pretty upset that Colby Rasmus was dealt and thought he had huge upside. Worked out pretty well for the Cardinals.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
5:30 pm
“I normally don’t do this, but anyone on this blog who advocates ANY trade for an Upton is a blithering idiot.”
That’s unfair. Upton is young and a proven ML talent. The intrigue certain people have for him is certainly understandable.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:31 pm
i’m surprised that anybody i even considering the possibility that they aren’t fake
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:32 pm
stamper
Gilmartin is a good arm, so is Adam Northcutt, Gilmartin’s as a solid a #3 starter prospect as there is in the game, Northcutt probably a #4 or #5 though
to bad Carlos Perez went to pieces…..
Oh and Vizcaino of course, but he’s out with TJ surgery rehab, he may have a higher celing than Teheran, though Teheran is barely 21 and has plenty of time to work on his breaking ball control
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:32 pm
And maybe Dempster is the option too, since I really don’t believe you’d have to give up Minor, Delgado or Teheran – or Bethancourt for that matter, for 2 months of Ryan Dempster.
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
5:33 pm
I am 99% sure this MLB Sports Report is fake
There is a @MLBSportsReport on twitter!! That doesn’t mean they aren’t full of chiat though!!
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:33 pm
They can be intrigued all they want. The fact that both brothers have a track record of volatile conduct detrimental to any clubhouse speaks to something I do not want in ours. I do not want a repeat of Yunel Escobar – regardless. There is something to be said for peace in the clubhouse and not having to play wet nurse to a wanna-be prima donna with anger management issues.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:33 pm
Gilmartin’s as a solid a #3 starter prospect as there is in the game,…Nick
oh pooh. he is Minor Lite
Lew
July 16th, 2012
5:34 pm
For the right trade pieces, Upton might not be a bad deal for the Braves. What would be stupid in the extreme is to consider trading Prado at all.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
nolie
CAC (and me) disagree with you, and I think Minor has #2 potential, people seem to forget his rather valuable 2011, he works on his command a bit and pitch selection, he’s going to be a good pitcher
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
what about Felix? Doubt he’s going anywhere but there’s not many bigger names on non-contending teams.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
if they are truly looking for a tiop o’ the rotation guy, it seems to me like they would be looking for more than a rental.
Exactly. To scoots point, they need assets for this offseason to fill needs(outfield, pen, bench) but one of those needs now is a frontline starting pitcher. So if Wren is going to go for it, then trading one of Teheran, Delgado or Mike Minor makes sense right now for Matt Garza or James Shields or someone else we aren’t thinking about.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:36 pm
Justin would cost too much in trade pieces and no way the get a high end pitcher and someone like Upton too
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
5:36 pm
Clayton Richard might also be a valuable target if he’s available.
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:36 pm
Maybe DOB will get some inside info from his buddy Fredi.
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
5:36 pm
Lucas Sims will be the greatest Starting Pitcher the world has ever seen!! Might give Cy Young a run on the all time win list!!!!
We should trade him for Garza!!
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:37 pm
Like there will be no coaching changes.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:37 pm
Upton won’t be coming here in 2012 that’s for sure, now next offseason…. that’s a possiblity
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:38 pm
where is Larry Parrish anyway.
Lew
July 16th, 2012
5:38 pm
I wonder if due to his ankle issues that Hudson might be considering calling it quits this winter. Not only would it necessitate having another top rotation pitcher, but would free up $9 mil to acquire one.
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:39 pm
Or that Jack wilson is day to day.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:39 pm
there is no scouting report in the world that shows Minor as having even one solidly plus pitch, how in hell is he gonna be a #2? and Gilmartin is nothing special at all, even if he was a Seminole….
as for CAC, I had several arguments with one of the founders while he was here and didn’t lose any
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:39 pm
Christian Bethancourt, Nick Ahmed, Matt Lipka, Edward Salcedo, Todd Cunningham are five position player prospects that would interest GM’s, I think.
Teheran, Gilmartin, Graham are the pitchers teams would want with Martin, Northcraft, Hale, Moore as additional pitchers to a lesser extent.
Mike Minor, Randall Delgado and Tyler Pastornicky are the non-prospect players they’d probably consider trading.
I’d hope that Wren does whatever he can to keep Danville RHP Mauricio Cabrera and SS Jose Peraza out of talks. Even though they are far away, be nice to leave Danville and GCL squads alone for now.
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:39 pm
who’s on that DL list?
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
5:39 pm
Delgado going tonight against the Louisville Bats….
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:41 pm
maybe their sonar won’t work tonight and he’ll pitch well
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
cap tipping 101
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
“They can be intrigued all they want. The fact that both brothers have a track record of volatile conduct detrimental to any clubhouse speaks to something I do not want in ours. I do not want a repeat of Yunel Escobar – regardless. There is something to be said for peace in the clubhouse and not having to play wet nurse to a wanna-be prima donna with anger management issues.”
You consider character, of course, but you also consider on-field production. John Schuerholz went out and acquired Gary Sheffield, a notorious locker-room headache, in the winter of 2001 because we desperately needed a fearsome bat. I don’t think Schuerholz is a blithering idiot. Sheffield helped us win 100+ games both years he was here.
For the record, I don’t think the Braves need Upton. But he is a good player. A really good player, in fact.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
Lew, 5:38.. you might be onto something.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
nolie
you don’t have a strikeout rate of 8.28 per 9 innings without good pitches, besides, you can be a good pitcher without any super plus pitches, you just have to have several good ones.
Jurrjens doesn’t have any plus pitches
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
Got to keep running JJ out there. What this about AAA?
NO MORE FREDI
July 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
Wouldn’t a team want to win the wild card with stupid MLB playoff schedule this year? Two at home is huge compared to on the road for a WC team. Still don’t get the thought process behind whoever came up with this.
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
Indianapolis Indians not Louisville Bats
kenhotlanta
July 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
Lil’ Bridge DFA’d to make room for Carl Crawford. Sheets story getting big props on MLB network…love it.
brian
July 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
Shields will do well with a change of scenery. He would be an ideal candidate for the Braves with still another year or two of options.
The Braves would love Dempster but they will not give up Minor straight up for Dempster. The Cubs would have to throw in a significant prospect as well for them to get Minor
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:44 pm
CAC (and me) disagree with you, and I think Minor has #2 potential,
Okay, so you and Ben Duronio, Frank Rabon and others think he is a #2 – even though the large majroity of the scouting world believe he had a ceiling of a #3 and to date, he has posted an ERA of 5.27 in 40 major league starts across 3 seasons. He hasn’t shown yet that he can touch a mid-rotation starters ceiling and heck, I still think he has that. Saying he is a #2 and debating about it is pointless. He hasn’t yet proven that he was a wrothy Top 10 pick and he hasn’t yet proven that he was a worthy 1st rounder.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:44 pm
and as far as Gilmartin is concerned, kid has excellent control, a flawless delivery and knows how to pitch, all the footage I have seen of him confirms this.
I don’t know why you argued with the folk at CAC (i assuem it was the classic scout vs sabre deal)
but I tend to agree with their player analysis
ACE
July 16th, 2012
5:46 pm
Greatest quote all season by Fredi, I don’t even know why you are talking to me.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:47 pm
problem is that Minor has none. again with the Krate being all important.
thats the trouble with you exclusive stats folks, you have no feel for the game.
especially in pitchers stats are by no means even close to infallible.
nothing is impossible but Minor would need to better his command by a good bit to ever even approach a #2
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
5:47 pm
do we have any high-ceiling pitching prospects down on the farm?
Carlos Perez??
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
5:48 pm
you don’t have a strikeout rate of 8.28 per 9 innings without good pitches, besides, you can be a good pitcher without any super plus pitches, you just have to have several good ones.
Ya know, I’m a huge fan of K/9, but for crying out loud Nick, even when he was going good hitters were killing him for extra bases. He has never been able to limit the gap double. Like ever.
I still like Polished, but a #2 starter ceiling is a little too high, imo.
And not one of his pitches grades out as more than a tick above average(his changeup). That’s it. 50’s across the board.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
5:48 pm
Bay Area Steve It’s why Mac is one of the best at it. And, impressively, probably THE best at the low strike. How a thick 6′5″ gets under a pitch 18″ off the ground is one of the reasons to watch ‘ball. Glove doesn’t move down an inch.
You got that right (except that BMac’s 6′-3″
)! Although that’s not something even I really came to appreciate until recently—doesn’t always get the call, but it sure works better than the other method…
I can’t believe how bad umpires are at their job, but if you let a computer do it, one of the biggest facets of being a catcher goes away.
For sure. They let a computer do it, and I’m pretty sure my days of watching would dwindle down to nothing…
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:49 pm
of course you agree with them, but like I said I didn’t lose any arguments as things turned out.
as gor Gilmartin, polish is about all he has. he is a long way from being anything special either.
hide and watch them both for a few years
Murph
July 16th, 2012
5:50 pm
Any word on Gattis yet? Hasn’t he been out for 2 months now?
Shaun
July 16th, 2012
5:50 pm
Minor cannot be expected to grow into being the number three starter down the road unless he is allowed to pitch. If Sheets has another quality start – certainly as awesome as Sunday’s performance was – there is no point in trading for a starter. We already traded Todd Redmond for Janish, a valuable chip that could have been used in another trade package come winter time. It had to be done, so be it.
Sheets is obviously still an injury risk. The Braves still need to improve run prevention this season. Depending on the return, I’m fine with trading one of the young starters. What are the chances that all three of them or even one of them turns in to an ace. Why wait until the offseason if something falls in to their laps now and when they are trying to win now?
I think Todd Redmond deserves a chance in the majors. But he’s no more than a back-end starter/long reliever. Paul Janish is a shortstop who can provide something above replacement-level value at the position because of solid defense.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:51 pm
they are secretly turning Gattis into our new Ace and wanna surprise folks
Murph
July 16th, 2012
5:51 pm
You got that right (except that BMac’s 6′-3″
I believe BAS was referring to the man’s circumference, not his height.
Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:52 pm
his girth? that was cold Murph, cold
Murph
July 16th, 2012
5:52 pm
Off-days make me mean.
Sorry everyone.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:53 pm
Efrim
1.4 WAR last year in 16 starts is #2/#3 quality performance on a division winning club
xFIP last year was 3.62 (this year it is 4.67 and dropping)
HR/FB rate has climbed this year, but that’s a stat that moves around a lot from year to year
IF he can cut his walk rate down from 3.9 to 2.9 he’s a legit #2/#3 starter ERA isn’t enough of the truth to base a scouting report of a pitcher on, especially a young pitcher
Glavine at 24 had a 4.28 ERA (after 105 starts) Minor at 24 has a 5.27 ERA (after only 40) at 43 starts Glavine’s ERA was 4.75
I think it’s a bit soon to just go tossing Minor to the curb
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
5:53 pm
FREEZING cold!…
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
5:54 pm
Eh, I guess you’re excused this time—I’m annoyed that it’s an off-day, myself…
They just had the ASB, dangit!!…
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:55 pm
yeah IF IF IF.IF my aunt had shorter hair she’d be my uncle
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
5:55 pm
Jaded, the difference is that Sheffield by that time was a bona-fide veteran with on-again, off-again issues. We got REAL lucky and caught him during his “good” behavior year. Truthfully, he was OK from that point on.
The Uptons are still in their 20’s and sorely in need of major reconstructive character building and self-control, issues I certainly would not want any part of. You want THAT on your team? Have at it. Just not on the Braves.
cabravesfan
July 16th, 2012
5:56 pm
McFann-
You have mail (don’t get too excited…not that kind)
Jeff R
July 16th, 2012
5:56 pm
I think Minor’s going to be a very capable starting pitcher. Not an ace or a #1, but solid.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:56 pm
saying he is a #3 is hardly tossing him to the curb
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:57 pm
not that I’m saying Minor will become Glavine, just pointing out that after only 40 starts we shouldn’t be passing final judgement on a guy who strikes out over 8 per 9 innings
and do not forget last season, you can’t ignore last seasons great pitching because you like to ram this years bad pitching down everyone’s throat, a player’s entire body of work MUST be considered
nolie
I played the game for 13 years until blowing out my shoulder in high school, I have been an asst coach in Babe Ruth league working with the pitchers there, I have been a baseball junky since I was 4 years old, so pardon me, but you can take you “don;t have a feel for the game” crap and stick it
keylargo
July 16th, 2012
5:59 pm
The Cubs would have to throw in a significant prospect as well for them to get Minor
The Cubs want their throw in to be paying the salary (about $6M).
NickB
July 16th, 2012
5:59 pm
that argument is the one people who hate saber stats try to throw out there when they have no recourse to discount the FACTS the are presented with.
it’s a lousy argument and yer better than that
nolie
July 16th, 2012
5:59 pm
sounds to me like you allow your obsession with stats to override that “feel” way too often Nick.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
6:00 pm
cabravesfan—
Thanks! I got it!
Yeah, made me jump at first, but the subject line told me it wasn’t that yet…
Murph
July 16th, 2012
6:00 pm
Who was the #3 starter back when the Braves had Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz?
Whoever it was, Mike Minor ain’t a #3 by those standards. But, he would have been one heckuva #3 back in 2008.
Born a few years too late. Poor Minor.
CrαZy
July 16th, 2012
6:00 pm
Ryan Dempster told Bob Nightengale of USA Today that he’d be willing to re-sign with the Cubs this coming offseason even if he’s traded this summer.
I don’t like players saying this. I know as a FA they can sign anywhere they like, but I’m surprised MLB doesn’t have a rule against players signing with a team they were traded from the previous year! Or at least a rule saying they can’t sign him for below market value!! I doubt Dempster would sign below market value, but in some cases I could see it happen!!
nolie
July 16th, 2012
6:04 pm
it is also true. all youze guys are always with the IF this or IF that with no indication that IF will ever happen. and I’ve been fooling with stats since 1955 so poop about hating saber stats. I was pushing OBP b4 there ever was an official OBP..
and numbers are not facts, except in regards to what has already happened, as projecting devices they are not facts in any sense of the word.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
6:06 pm
Shaun, sometimes you gotta hedge a bet and risk that Sheets will be OK for the season. Beyond that, caveat emptor. I just feel that this team has WAAAY too many lineup holes to spend VALUABLE winter trade resources on a rent-an-arm for two months. We need too much down the road, that is certain. Trading for an arm right now on an uncertain run with a mercurial lineup that depends on a majority of the spots delivering in the absence of a reliable 30/100/.300 MVP bat is faulty at best, irresponsible stewardship at worst.
I say take the Ben Sheets truck and ride it this season ’til the wheels fall off. Use the winter to trade for that young LF slugger. That’ll solve two positions: LF & 3B.
nolie
July 16th, 2012
6:07 pm
maybe they say that because they don’t really wanna be traded? I don’t like to hear it either, but whatcha gonna do? It might give some teams who would be interested in an extension pause I guess
NickB
July 16th, 2012
6:07 pm
all you can judge a player by is what he has done and then what you can project him to do based on his age, what others similar have done , and what you see his issues to be.
Take Heyward, all signs pointed to him being exactly what he is now and to be a superstar by age 24/25…. so I had no worries about his struggles last year at all.
I’m not saying I think Minor will be a #2 on the 1996 Braves, but he could be a low #2 high #3 on the 2014 Braves
keylargo
July 16th, 2012
6:13 pm
Do the Braves have an option on Sheets for 2013?
NickB
July 16th, 2012
6:13 pm
IF the Braves got Dempster, I doubt they’d be too interested in re-signing him anyway. His numbers are to inconsistent from one year to the next , and he’s getting older
Murph
July 16th, 2012
6:14 pm
The A’s need SS help… think news of Pastornicky’s questionable defense has reached that far? They’ve got a rotation chock full o’ talent.
NickB
July 16th, 2012
6:14 pm
keylargo
nope, just signed him on a one year minor league deal, if he pitches really well, there may be an extension for him, which I bet he would sign
nolie
July 16th, 2012
6:14 pm
better to use multiple yardsticks which your CAC buddies are very weak at.
and what is with the talk of Minor having a good year last season? he had a WHIP of almost 1.5 and an ERA+ of 94. the fact that he had a decent K-rate is more important than what he actually produced ?
I’m not saying he is trash but I am saying that he is a long long way from being as special as a #2 in a good rotation
MiaBchBravesFan
July 16th, 2012
6:15 pm
NickB: a strong argument for standing pat on the trade front, taking a gamble on Ben Sheets’ productivity and health, as well as recognizing that anything short of the right LF MVP bat will not solve problems this season, or in the future. If the Braves could successfully trade for a Hamilton type bat with Martin Prado character and two-three years of team control, it is the only scenario I could be happy with prior to the July 31st deadline.