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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,718 comments Add your comment
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:48 am
Like I said, Hanson is a ketchup pitcher.. not exactly what you want in a do or die situation.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:51 am
I’ve come to expect those comments from ncscoots.. not a big surprise. I think he does it just to see if he can get me roused up but I’ve caught on to his tactics.
I don’t think you should take his comment to heart, AT. He;s just messing around.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:53 am
It just doesn’t make sense for the Braves to be that team.
Agreed. Get what we can from him in the 2nd half and hopefully we can trade him for anything before having to non-tender him in late November.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:55 am
The Cubs, according to one rival executive, sought a package for right-hander Matt Garza last offseason similar to what the Athletics received for lefty Gio Gonzalez — catcher Derek Norris, lefty Tommy Milone and righties Brad Peacock and A.J. Cole.
At the time, Gonzalez was three years away from free agency, Garza two. Now Garza is down to one year plus two months, but the Cubs still could get a significant return. The extra year — and possibility of a draft pick on the back end — enhances Garza’s value. – Ken Rosenthal
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:56 am
How much do you think the Braves will put an emphasis on a possible starter acquisition being left-handed? Minor would be the likely guy replaced, leaving the Braves with no lefties in the rotation.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:56 am
If teams know that JJ is about to be non-tendered, why would they offer the Braves anything in a trade?
What happens to his status should he be non-tendered? Does he become a FA even though he’s still arb-eligible?
space monkey
July 16th, 2012
10:56 am
Sheets was amazing yesterday. We finally have a power pitcher. Hanson has a decent curve. But his fastball is now very weak. Batters can sit fastball on him and wait for that weak 88-mph pitch. Sheets had a decent fastball yesterday, topping out at 93 with late movement. And his curve was a hammer. Now if we add Dempster, this team will go deep in October. Right now, I’d go Dempster at one, Sheets at two, Hudson 3, Hanson 4, and Jurjjens 5. Either trade Minor or use him in long relief.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:57 am
seems like an awefully high asking price for Garza.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:57 am
Nationals – Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmermann, Jackson
Giants – Cain, Bumgarner, Lincecum, Vogelsong
Reds – Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey, Leake
Cardinals – Lohse, Lynn, Wainwright, Westbrook, Garcia
Braves – Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Sheets
Who there really worries you? Not really concerned with any of those teams, either they don’t have pitching or don’t have hitting. And I like our rotation, I think that rotation matches up just as well as any of those other teams.
Not to mention we probably have one of the best offenses of all those teams.
Get rid of the early stats from Jurrjens, Minor, and Delgados stats for our starters ERA, and we now have 4 good starters with good numbers.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:58 am
Murph, I believe he would become a FA going to the highest bidder.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:59 am
Murphy, if teams like Jurrjens enough, they might trade for him so they don’t have to compete with other teams to sign him.
If he’s non-tendered, he’s a free agent.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:59 am
Get rid of the early stats from Jurrjens, Minor, and Delgados stats for our starters ERA, and we now have 4 good starters with good numbers.
If only life were that easy… I’d still be allowed to own a handgun and vote.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:00 am
AT, I think one key point is that was the Cubs’ asking price in the off-season. The price would not be as high now, since he is that much closer to free agency.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:03 am
“If only life were that easy…”
It is that easy. And that is essentially what the playoffs do. You certainly won’t have Minor, Delgado, Teheran, or beginning of the year Jair pitching in the playoffs, so our rotation really is much improved.
I’ll take my chances with Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, and Sheets in the playoffs. I don’t think there really is an overall better team in the NL than the Braves. Braves have four good starters, a great bullpen, and a very dangerous offense that can finally hit lefties.
raleighbravefan
July 16th, 2012
11:04 am
First, let me say that I have always been a JJ fan.
That said, I was then convenced he was toast.
Now, I think he could go either way…continue to adjust and improve post injury…or fade away, slowly or quickly. I believe that if he pitches well enough to have some value, you trade him…if not, you probably non-tender him. I don’t think the Braves can afford the gambel. He may defy odds, and become a cheap success story for someone. You cannot be right every time.
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:04 am
Get rid of the early stats from Jurrjens, Minor, and Delgados stats for our starters ERA, and we now have 4 good starters with good numbers.
Get rid of Uggla’s last 100 AB’s and he’d look like a hitter again. Cant pick and choose the stats you like.
Braves Fan in Maine
July 16th, 2012
11:04 am
Listen I have been a huge supporter of not trading our farm away….. If I was to make a deal I would trade either JJ and minor…. other than that I would try to win with what we have…. on another note looks like the braves are going to dump franstinko….. pastornicky playing 2nd, ss, LF….. that means when jones need a day off you move pastor to the outfield and prado 3rd
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:05 am
I think he does it just to see if he can get me roused up
Nossir, I would not do that. That would be trolling, and that’s not my style.
You and I just have some areas of disagreement, is all, and I’d rather make a humourous retort than a nasty one. But I’m not trying to poke you with a stick.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
11:06 am
Wren has always been insistent about having a lefty in the rotation, but I would think and hope he wouldn’t be so beholden to that idea that he’d let it deter him from adding a right-handed ace like Greinke, if he had the opportunity to do so.
The notion that you have to have a southpaw in the starting staff is one I’ve never been able to get my head around anyway. What difference does it make if the lefty isn’t effective? Minor, for his career, allows a .791 OPS against left-handed batters. Medlen’s opponents’ OPS for LHB is .582 (albeit in a limited innings sample compared to Minor). It’s clear to me that Medlen would better neutralize lefty-heavy lineups that Minor would, but sometimes it’s so hard for baseball people to go against the conventional wisdom. Kind of reminds me of the way Bobby Cox used Mike Remlinger as LOOGY in his second stint with the Braves, even though Mike always fared better against right-handed hitters.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:07 am
“Get rid of Uggla’s last 100 AB’s and he’d look like a hitter again. Cant pick and choose the stats you like.”
Sure you can. Clearly aren’t listening. You can pick your stats if you eliminate the guys from your roster. Which is what the Braves would be doing in the playoffs. Who cares what a guys ERA or batting average is, if he isn’t on your team in the postseason?
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:08 am
I don’t know for sure, but today may be the first day in baseball history that 11 teams in one league have a winning record.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
11:08 am
Who there really worries you?
The Giants and the Nationals. Hey, look at that – we have 7 games against them this week.
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:08 am
Amazing what one start can do to this place. Did we forget that Hudson and Hanson just combined for 9.1IP and 10ER against the Mets? Huddy has a bad ankle and was throwing 87 mph fastballs. Hanson’s velocity is down and he’s giving up too many HR’s, JJ has made 3 good starts and Sheets 1. Im not as positive about this staff as others, but its still good to know than one of Delgado and Minor have been removed. Get Greinke and send Minor down. Then Id feel better.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:09 am
On second thought, I’d be more confident in saying it’s probably the first time in AL history that 11 teams all had a winning record at one time. Little easier to possibly do in the NL with more teams.
11 winning teams, 3 losing teams. Pretty incredible.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:09 am
Right now, I’d go Dempster at one, Sheets at two
Man, one game with six innings of shutout ball will get you some major man-love in this place, won’t it, LOL? Sheets might set a CBI record with one more good start.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:10 am
It’s also not entirely coincidence that two bad games from the pitching staff coincided with a mash-up defense with Prado at SS. The Mets his around .320 on ground balls in those two games. 0 for 6 yesterday.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:11 am
“Man, one game with six innings of shutout ball will get you some major man-love in this place, won’t it,”
Not if you are black pitcher from Curacao.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:11 am
It’s clear to me that Medlen would better neutralize lefty-heavy lineups that Minor would
Now, if he could just get some righties out, too.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:12 am
I am certainly not counting on Sheets to be an ace. He pitched great yesterday, but that’s just one start. If I thought, after one start, he could be ace-level, I wouldn’t be very inclined to add another pitcher.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
11:12 am
But I’m not trying to poke you with a stick.
:::: pointing to all the bruises :::::
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:13 am
“The Giants and the Nationals. Hey, look at that – we have 7 games against them this week.”
Agree with you there, but this is a perfect week to really see how we stack up against arguable the best two teams in the National League right now. And it doesn’t hurt to be hitting well on a 7 game winning streak. Hey we go over .500 this week and it means we can contend in the playoffs right?
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:13 am
Not if you are black pitcher from Curacao.
Sheets has no Braves’ baggage to tote. Jurrjens’ upward mobility is hampered by the steamer trunks full of it that he has to carry.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
11:14 am
Sure you can. Clearly aren’t listening. You can pick your stats if you eliminate the guys from your roster.
Oh, yeah, forgot about that. The Braves can just drop guys whose stats bring down the overall team stats, you know, to make them look stronger on paper, ’cause that’s super important when heading into the postseason.
Doesn’t matter that there isn’t anyone viable to replace them… a guy with zero AB’s doesn’t drag the team BA down, at least.
(I don’t know how to do the roll-eyes smiley face thingy, or I’d be putting a dozen of them at the end of this post)
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
11:14 am
“Did we forget that Hudson and Hanson just combined for 9.1IP and 10ER against the Mets?”
No one’s forgotten it. A lot of people are pretty down on Hanson right now, I’d say. Hudson’s taken some flak for his inconsistency, too. Most people still recognize the glaring need for an ace, but we also need to shore up the backend of the rotation, and that’s why everyone’s feeling pretty good after Sheets’ outing yesterday.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:14 am
I think folks forget how young Jair is. A lot of the disfavor befalling Jurrjens came about because of his attitude. That is, failing to do the hard work necessary for him to overcome the knee injury. Being sent down was a wake up call for him. He came to realize it was up to him on if and when and where he would make his next major league start. He has done that work and has a much greater appreciation of what it take to be a front line player. Like Tom Glavin said yesterday, Pitching is divided into two areas, knowing how to pitch and being able to execute that knowledge.
JJ had the knowledge of how to pitch, he just was not able to execute those pitches. Mike Minor and Randal Delgato on the other hand, can execute their pitches, they just don’t know how and when. It is the difference in a young pitcher and a guy who is 29 years old and is coming into his prime.
To be honest, I have no clue as to what the Braves have planned for Jurrgens other than the fact Jair is making it harder for them to cast him aside. It is called maturity.
Ben Sheets we saw yesterday was a classic example of a top of the rotation pitcher who has overcome adversity. He possesses the knowledge of how to pitch and he combined it with the ability to execute. If he continues to perform like he did yesterday, and I have every reason to believe he will, he could well be the guy you would want on the mound in a one game playoff, a John Smoltz clone who wants the ball in a big game situation.
cricket
July 16th, 2012
11:15 am
Not if you are black pitcher from Curacao
that’s not at all fair. it should read – Not if your K/9 sucks, you can’t miss bats and all your past success is because you have been lucky with smoke and mirrors..
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:15 am
pointing to all the bruises
AT, if that’s truly the case, then I’ll have to reconsider my approach. That certainly isn’t my intent, believe me.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:16 am
“If I thought, after one start, he could be ace-level, I wouldn’t be very inclined to add another pitcher.”
Ok, well let’s just say he is at least a top-level starter for the Braves. Then who do you go out and get? A left fielder?
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:18 am
I don’t think the Braves’ roster is constructed for, nor do I see the apparent need for, the acquisition of an offensive player at this point.
If the Braves make a move, I strongly believe it will be for a starting pitcher. The Braves will have big offensive holes to fill in the off-season, but those holes aren’t there right now.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:19 am
“K/9 sucks, you can’t miss bats and all your past success is because you have been lucky with smoke and mirrors..”
Let’s see…K/9 is worthless for non-strikeout pitchers, which he clearly is not a strikeout pitcher. He has always pitched with smoke and mirrors, so get used to it, or stop watching the Criss Angel and David Blaine magic show Jurrjens puts on every start for his entire career.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
11:20 am
I wouldn’t do that.. your not making me angry or anything… I find it amusing.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:20 am
The only scenario in which I see the Braves adding a “big bat” would be if Chipper or someone else like Heyward or Freeman sustained a significant injury.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:22 am
“K/9 is worthless for non-strikeout pitchers”
That’s like saying batting average is worthless for players who don’t hit well. Weird statement. Strikeouts are equally valuable for all pitchers.
I think what you meant to say is that Jurrjens has other qualities that make up for his lower K/9 numbers. That is not the same as saying K/9 is worthless.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
11:22 am
I worry that we’ll bring an average starting pitching in, I think we need to set our sights on something a little higher than that.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:23 am
“The only scenario in which I see the Braves adding a “big bat” would be if Chipper or someone else like Heyward or Freeman sustained a significant injury.”
I suppose so. Ideally your lineup the rest of the way would be..
Bourn
Prado
Chipper
McCann
Uggla
Freeman
Heyward
Simmons
I mean that really is a pretty deep lineup, especially if Simmons continues to hit halfway decently, and McCann, Freeman, and Uggla get it going.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:23 am
If I thought, after one start, he could be ace-level, I wouldn’t be very inclined to add another pitcher.
You’ve proven that you’re too smart to think that, though.
It might be “like riding a bike”, as Chipper said, but this bike goes about a hunnert miles an hour.
The guy hasn’t pitched in two years, and he’s likely to have more skinned knees than Tour de France trophies. Maybe we should see how he recovers every fifth day before making any evaluations on his future worth to the org.
David O'Brien
July 16th, 2012
11:23 am
Among potential Braves trade targets, Cubs‘ Ryan Dempster is 5-0 with no runs allowed and a .171 opponents’ average in his past 5 starts, leads MLB starters in ERA (1.86) and ranks second among NL starters in opponents’ average (.204).
Twins lefty Francisco Liriano is 3-3 with a 2.83 ERA and .170 opp avg in nine starts since returning to rotation, with 67 strikeouts and 25 walks in 57-1/3 innings.
Since June 1: Cubs’ Matt Garza is 3-4 with a 3.80 ERA and .249 OA in eight starts, with 44 K and 11 walks in 47-1/3 innings, and Brewers’ Zack Greinke is 3-1 with a 3.71 ERA and .240 OA in nine starts, with 48 K and 12 walks in 51 innings.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:24 am
Hudson’s gimpy ankle is hindering him from being able to finish off his pitches. The results are as you have seen, a ton of runs scored against him. There is little he can do but try to push through it and learn how to overcome it. I suspect it will cause him to miss a start or two. The team will continue to pencil him in the line up every fifth day but our best hope is he not be up against another team’s number one.
Bone spurs are a hellish thing, often only corrected by surgery and that can be a risky proposition. There are so many moving parts to a pitcher, any one of them can mean the difference of winning or losing.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:24 am
Jurrjens’ strikeout rate has always been low, but this year, it’s been alarmingly low. Simple probability states that the more balls you allow to be put in play, the more hit’s you’re going to give up. That has certainly been the case for Jurrjens this year.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
11:25 am
Maybe we should see how he recovers every fifth day before making any evaluations on his future worth to the org.
see, we agree there.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
11:28 am
Jurrjens, when he was on his game, reminded me a lot of a right-handed Tom Glavine. Glavine was able to put together a bunch of great seasons with a marginal WHIP and K/BB rates. I’ve seen some of the SABR guys discuss Glavine, and he’s confounding to them. Glavine’s real ERA was better than his FIP 17 out of 18 years from 1991 through 2008. At some point it stops being about luck.
Guys like Glavine are rare, but they do exist. The advanced stats with Jurrjens never wowed you, but I know what I saw in 2008, 2009 and the first half of 2011. The guy can pitch. I don’t know if there’s a place for him in Atlanta, but I suspect wherever he goes next he’ll be more successful than a lot of people think. He just needs to stay healthy.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:29 am
So how many days/starts do we have until the trade deadline? Two weeks/ 2 starts each? We should know quite a bit by then. Not to mention we have a great test this week against the cream of the crop.
Should be a very revealing two weeks. Pretty exciting everything that has transpired as of late. I, for one, am very hopeful at this point.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
11:29 am
Something not to overlook in Greinke, is his ability to go deep into games. Which is something our starters have been unable to do on a consistant basis. That alone could change the team’s results down the stretch.. in regards to the efficiency of the bullpen.
Steve from OH
July 16th, 2012
11:30 am
Let’s see…K/9 is worthless for non-strikeout pitchers, which he clearly is not a strikeout pitcher
That’s like saying breathing is useless to dead people.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:30 am
Brian It was a conscious decision by the Braves and Jurrjens made a couple of years ago for Jair to pitch to contact rather than be a strikeout pitcher to allow for him to get deeper into games. Strikeouts are sexy but they often lead to quick exits. Best save the strikeout artist to closers. Like the master, Greg Maddux said, the trick is to keep the ball off the sweet spot of the bat.
For Jurrjens, the difference in 5mph on his fastball made a huge difference in the late movement of his pitches. They looked laser straight and likely looked like they were sitting on a tee to major league batters.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
11:32 am
Among potential Braves trade targets
Looks good to me. Go get one of em, and let’s see if this team can win a World Series.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:32 am
Peter Moylan is on his way back, correct?
Capt.Mudd
July 16th, 2012
11:33 am
@ncscoots….Would a humorous retort include be what Fredi does when the Umps….’screw one,’ and instead of marching right out madly…..he merely tips his cap?
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
11:33 am
That’s like saying breathing is useless to dead people.
Laugh out loud funny right there, Steve.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
11:33 am
What sort of operation/rehab time is expected to remove bone spurs from an ankle? I know some of you watch House or used to be big fans of ER… c’mon, ballparks and figures here, if Hudson went in and got the spurs removed, would he be ready in time for the postseason?
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:33 am
I know what you’re saying, Gil. But under 4 K/9 is quite extreme. That’s just a sign of your stuff not being very good. Maddux pitched to contact and got 6-8 K/9. By the end of his career, he was down around 4.5-5.0, but he wasn’t all that great a pitcher by that time.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:34 am
At some point it stops being about luck.
Once is a fluke, twice might be coincidence, but three times starts coming close to “fact”.
It’s that Jurrjens hasn’t provided enough data to determine if he can come closer to “fact” than “fluke”. I don’t care for it when folks who kept bleating that he would decline then use his failure through injury as confirmation of correctness. I also don’t care for it when folks who think he’s a wunderkind point to a single season as evidence. Neither approach gives anybody a true idea of the guy’s actual performance projection.
Just…don’t…know. The injury problems cloud the issue too much.
Juan
July 16th, 2012
11:35 am
How about those Braves Defense….wow…1st on DP 86…2nd fielding % 985…Defense also win games.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
11:35 am
For Jurrjens, the difference in 5mph on his fastball made a huge difference in the late movement of his pitches.
Can someone get on the horn to Teheran and tell him the same thing?
Bayou Brave
July 16th, 2012
11:35 am
Braves are tied with the 5th best record in MLB
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:35 am
Im sure the people here that love JJ are the ones who would tell us to stay away from Liriano.
Twins lefty Francisco Liriano is 3-3 with a 2.83 ERA and .170 opp avg in nine starts since returning to rotation, with 67 strikeouts and 25 walks in 57-1/3 innings.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:36 am
Another point to consider…you can be a successful non-strikeout pitcher if you limit your walks (so that the hits you give up won’t hurt you as much), and get ground balls (getting double plays and avoiding home runs).
Jurrjens’ walk rate is not good, and he’s always been a fly ball pitcher, even more extremely so this year.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:36 am
“saying breathing is useless to dead people.”
It is.
No Flag Since Lemke
July 16th, 2012
11:36 am
Wonderful start by Big Ben yesterday, but let’s hope the front office doesn’t get intoxicated by it and stand pat in the pitching arena. Too many fragile arms, knees and ankles plus inexperience to think the staff as presently composed will take us to the playoffs much less deep into the playoffs.
stamper
July 16th, 2012
11:37 am
MFin04, I admire your unwavering optimism for this rotation, but i think you’re setting yourself for some major heartbreak if you think we can rely on this staff without any significant improvements before the deadline.
The bottom line is, if we don’t make a deal for another proven starter, our post-season fate is going to take a serious snag.
It’s been noted several times before, but I’ll say it again…There’s little reason to be convinced that any of Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens or Sheets won’t be on the DL before the season’s end. Our rotation is the walking dead. I like each of those 4 guys, but to call any of them reliable at this point would be incredibly naive.
As for Delgado and Minor. Neither of them have given us much reason to be convinced in their consistency. At the absolute very most, we should only have just one of them in our rotation… (But to be honest, neither one should be in our rotation at all.Their combined record is 9-15 with an ERA over 5.00. The fact we are 10 games over .500 with 40% of our rotation winning just 36% of their decisions is amazing.) IF any of the above 4 pitchers go down again, both Delgado and Minor will be in our rotation yet again. This seriously concerns me… especially going into the playoff push. It is beyond impossible to rely on them right now.
Simply put, our rotation is not strong enough. We still need another starter if we have any serious intention of contending.
raleighbravefan
July 16th, 2012
11:40 am
SC Brian @11:18 – Pretty much agree…especially if Simmons comes back 100% by early Sept.
Right now, i would add the best pitcher I could, and plug holes at CF (wish we could re-sign Bourn) and LF/3B during off season.
BTW, is anyone considering even the possibility of a labor dispute coming up? Doesn’t the CBA run out?
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
11:40 am
“I also don’t care for it when folks who think he’s a wunderkind point to a single season as evidence.”
There’s a lot more than one season to point to with Jurrjens. He was solid in 2008 (should have won the ROY over Soto), dominant in 2009, and the best pitcher in the NL in the first half of 2011. That’s enough evidence to satisfy me that he’s a really good pitcher when he’s healthy.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
11:41 am
“Jurrjens’ walk rate is not good, and he’s always been a fly ball pitcher, even more extremely so this year.”
Weak fly ball pitcher. Lots of bleeders. Sure he has given up hits, but if he gives up hits, even walks, yet not runs, who cares?
On the flip side if a guy gives up 4 hits and the are all solo shots, and one guy gives up 8 to 10 hits, but only 2 to 3 runs….I’ll take the guy who gives up the 2 to 3 runs.
Sometimes it is the end results that count. Just win baby! If you want to strike guys out and win, great. If you want to give up tons of hits and walks and win, great. If you want to throw a perfect game, great. Just win. Doesn’t really matter how.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:43 am
Murph Just not enough time to have it done and be back this late in the year, not and be effective. I’m afraid Huddy has what he has for this season. We will all just have to live with it.
Brian The difference is JJ is still coming back from where he was two years ago. I would give him a bit more time before giving up on the guy completely. I guess we should wait and see where the trend line leads.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:44 am
Problem is that this year, that much lower K/9 rate has translated into a 4.97 ERA for Jurrjens. So he has given up runs. He has not given up as many runs since coming back from AAA, but he will have a VERY difficult time maintaining that without missing a few more bats. Getting back to his K/BB numbers from the last couple of years would be a big encouragement.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
11:46 am
He was solid in 2008 (should have won the ROY over Soto), dominant in 2009, and the best pitcher in the NL in the first half of 2011
I dunno, man, he was a completely different pitcher in 2011 than 2009. Totally different approach.
I’m less convinced of his worth than some, but at least I’m open to letting him change my mind.
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:48 am
.On the flip side if a guy gives up 4 hits and the are all solo shots, and one guy gives up 8 to 10 hits, but only 2 to 3 runs….I’ll take the guy who gives up the 2 to 3 runs.
In a perfect world sure. However, the guy giving up 8 to 10 hits while not striking anyone out and walking more people then normal is going to get lit up. Look at JJ’s first half. He’s still not healthy and cant be trusted as anything more than a 5th starter. Everyone in the Braves rotation right now has huge question marks.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
11:49 am
Pretty amazing that the team has won 7 in a row despite the fact that the starting rotation is in complete shambles… or would appear to be from what you read on here.
I do think the Braves stand a good chance of getting to the postseason if the rotation is left as-is… I just don’t think they’ll get past the WC play-in game.
But hey, the play-in game is still technically the postseason, so at least it’ll look good on the team’s resume. Could come in handy when Liberty is looking for potential buyers.
Liberty: “… and they made the postseason in 2012…”
Buyer: “Well, I guess… I mean, they got beat 12-1 in the play-in ga…”
Liberty: “Zzzzzzz! ZZZZZZZ!”
Buyer: “That really isn’t ma…”
Liberty: “ZZZZZZZ!”
Buyer: “Why do you…”
Liberty: “Like we were saying, they made the postseason in 2012, and that alone justifies the $2bil asking price.”
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:50 am
Getting back to his K/BB numbers from the last couple of years would be a big encouragement.
Bingo. His walk numbers are at the career mark for him. Problem is he was at 6.65K/9 in 2010 and now he’s at 3.89.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:50 am
scoots at least I’m open to letting him change my mind.
I’m pretty sure Jurrjens is hoping Frank Wren feels the same way…
Capt.Mudd
July 16th, 2012
11:50 am
………”Just win. Doesn’t really matter how,”
Yesterday–at The Bronx….Angels had their ace (10-1) on and the final was 10-8 L.A. Should this win be viewed in a dimmer light then an earlier no hitter vs. Twins he threw?
cricket
July 16th, 2012
11:51 am
ncscoots 11:34 am – agree pretty much with all points. but i clearly remember most of stat heads attributing JJ’s pre-injury success to luck based on some stats (like and not limited to K/9) and predicting that his failure was forthcoming as he should not be able to have success in light of those unfavorable stats. i also remember these same people gloating when he failed but never took into account that he was injured and / or may have some fitness issues and also the fact that he lost some speed on his fastball for whatever reason – essentially making his stuff not as good as before.
IMO, he did show he can have success at this level pre-injury and his stuff then was good enough to be a quality pitcher. no idea what future holds, just hope for the best. this thing can go either way and i won’t be too upset with whatever decision braves make at end of season.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
11:52 am
“at least I’m open to letting him change my mind.”
I hope every Braves fan would feel this way. I know I do.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
11:54 am
“I dunno, man, he was a completely different pitcher in 2011 than 2009. Totally different approach.”
I’m not sure what his approach was, but there were actually a lot of very close similarities between his 2009 and 2011 seasons. Almost identical BABIP, groundball percentage and K/BB ratio.
People forget what a beast Jurrjens was in ‘09. I guess he was overshadowed by Vazquez that year, but he gave us stellar starts with alarming consistency that year. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I think the stat was he gave up 2 earned runs or less in something like 28 of his 34 starts.
I refuse to believe a guy who’s been that good at various points of his career is a bum. I know you’re not suggesting that, scoots, but some people have.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
11:57 am
I dunno, man, he was a completely different pitcher in 2011 than 2009. Totally different approach.
Agreed. But some don’t care to look deeply into it.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
11:58 am
So…. does anyone think the Phillies would part with Cole Hammels to a division rival?
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
11:59 am
cricket – he’s got to get healthy first and right now he’s not. JJ cant be trusted until his velocity is back and he’s not wearing that knee brace and those orthopaedic shoes. Its very concerning that Hudson, Hanson, and JJ have all lost 2-3 mph since last year. Injuries suck
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
12:00 pm
I’m thinking the Braves aren’t in the picture for Hamels. High price, division rival, surefire free agent after the season.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
12:02 pm
Hamels is probably a hair better than Greinke, but I’d rather load the Brewers up with prospects than the Phillies.
They’ll probably command roughly the same money this offseason.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
12:03 pm
“Its very concerning that Hudson, Hanson, and JJ have all lost 2-3 mph since last year. Injuries suck”
So do slow radar guns…. Anyone else notice the radar gun was “fast” at the All-star game? Gets more like pro wrestling every year….
unbelievable
July 16th, 2012
12:03 pm
Brian – yeah Braves wont trade with the Phils for 2 months of production. No way they can pay Hamels the 6-8yr/$25per that he wants. Nor should they.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
12:03 pm
Hudson has a 2.41 ERA in games started by Andrelton Simmons. His ERA with any other starting shortstop is 4.96.
Tim Hudson is Paul Janish’s new best friend.
ncbravesfan90
July 16th, 2012
12:03 pm
Zack Greinke will not make his Wednesday start.
The Brewers are expected to provide a reason before Monday’s series-opener with the Cardinals. Greinke is an impending free agent and could be on the move at some point soon, but it’s not clear if that stuff is a factor in the decision for Wednesday. Tyler Thornburg will start in Greinke’s place against St. Louis.
Related: Tyler Thornburg
Source: Mike Vassallo on Twitter Jul 16 – 11:58 AM
raleighbravefan
July 16th, 2012
12:04 pm
Hamels has said publicly he would have no problem with being traded to help the team…AND THEN re-sign with the Phillies during the off season. Win-win for Phillies. Way too expensive for a rental, especially when it helps your rival.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
12:04 pm
“So do slow radar guns…. Anyone else notice the radar gun was “fast” at the All-star game? Gets more like pro wrestling every year….”
Maybe this is just the tin-foil hatter coming out in me, but I’ve always been skeptical of radar guns. If Aroldis Chapman really throws 104 mph then I’m nailing Emma Stone.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
12:04 pm
Okay, later folks, it’s been fun….
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
12:06 pm
I don’t think the Phillies will be able to sign Hamels this off-season. He ain’t gonna give them the big hometown discount it would take.
They already have $108.5 million in guaranteed contracts for next year, on seven players.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 16th, 2012
12:07 pm
ncbravesfan90 Sounds as if a deal has been done… Look for the rumors to fly soon…
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
12:09 pm
If the Phillies bring back Carlos Ruiz, which they will, they will have $115 million in payroll wrapped up in 9 players under contract. Not much to spend on the other 16 players to make up the roster.
richbrave
July 16th, 2012
12:10 pm
I guarantee this Monday we WILL NOT LOSE!!!!!