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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,718 comments Add your comment
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
8:52 am
The Braves are back to a season-high 10 games over .500. They were 25-15, their best record of the year, on May 18th. Since then, they are 24-24, with 35 of the 48 games against teams with a winning record. In those 35, they are 14-21. In the 13 games against losing teams in that stretch, they are 10-3.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
8:56 am
Per his pattern at Gwinnett and last year in Atlanta, Freeman’s bat is coming to life mid-season.
Does that pattern still hold, though? His slow starts before have usually been attributed to moving up a level, and then playing to that level.
I guess I’m more inclined to thinking that the recovery from the eye and injury problems is behind the spurt. I mean, his bat had “come to life” pretty good at the beginning of the season, too.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
8:56 am
We Dont Need Another Pitcher. We Need A Left Fielder…….
Offense is not this teams issue. Pitching still is. They need another starter, badly. One game from Ben Sheets isn’t changing that.
Jeff R
July 16th, 2012
8:56 am
Left fielder? So What do the Braves do with Prado? Platoon him?
monty
July 16th, 2012
8:57 am
I love Bourn ( what every team wants out of their leadoff position). The only problem(and it’s not even a problem,maybe more a concern) is when he steals a baes or legs out a double he has that look on his face like “Man, I don’t know if I’m going to make it, that was hard as crap.” Most other speed guys do their thing and pop up with a smile on their face, Bourn looks like he could use some oxygen.
Jeff R
July 16th, 2012
8:58 am
ncscoots… Might. But Freeman is coming to life mid-season. So…
But it’s welcome. Now, Uggla needs to starting whacking the ball.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
8:59 am
If McCann and Uggla get going…which they will….watch out. There’s that lineup depth.
We just need a starter to solidify the rotation and back us up. Hudson has bone spurs in his ankle. Sheets is starting to get on a regular rotation for the first time in two years, Jurrjens has a history of injury concern, Hanson had a shoulder injury last year, Minor/Delgado have been inconsistent…..
they need another starter. Offense ain’t a need. 3rd in runs scored and 5th in OPS.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:02 am
Braves are 5th in bullpen ERA and tied for 12th in starters ERA.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
9:02 am
The Braves are 12th in starters’ ERA in the NL. I agree, if a move is to be made, it will be there. I don’t have a whole lot of confidence in Minor, Delgado, or Jurrjens right now. A Sheets like we saw yesterday would be a huge boost, but adding another good starter would really “dot the i” of this roster, IMO.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
9:04 am
The Braves will probably see Zito, Vogelsong, and Bumgarner in this series. Two lefties, and Vogelsong has a 2.34 ERA. So the bats need to keep it going.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:06 am
Well, at least we miss Matt Cain this week vs. the Giants. Of course, we get Bumgarner on Thursday afternoon. That won’t be pretty.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:07 am
Man. Who would of thunk it….
Tim Hudson, Tommy Hanson, [insert pitcher A acquired at deadline], Jair Jurrjens and Ben Sheets
Ah, baseball…..
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:17 am
Now if we could deal for just one more starter…. ie.. Greinke, then we’re pretty set. Although, Willingham would be a great luxury either off the bench or in LF.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:21 am
“I don’t have a whole lot of confidence in Minor, Delgado, or Jurrjens right now.”
Too bad it is Hudson and Hanson that are currently sucking for the Braves. Nice series sweep and our starters were not very good in the series at all. Unless you want to count Ben Sheets, which no one apparently thinks is good enough to solve the Braves rotation problems, even though he was dominant yesterday when Tim and Tommy couldn’t be.
richbrave
July 16th, 2012
9:21 am
Off Brian’s stats on the recent 10+ winning record vs. winning and losing teams, I vote for playing all losers from here on out. 10-3 sounds pretty good to me. Heh!
monty
July 16th, 2012
9:23 am
“Willingham would be a great luxury either off the bench or in LF.”
Yeh, I guess it would be a great luxury to have a guy that is on pace to hit close to 40 HR’s and drive in 120 runs and a .960 OPS on your bench, but why would you do that?
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:24 am
If they can get a pitcher without having to give up too many assets, then they will be in good shape for the offseason when they have multiple holes to fill.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:25 am
Looking at Tim Hudson’s game log, he has either been really good or really bad this season. No real middle of the road games.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:26 am
monty, why would I want him or why would I play him off the bench?
Only reason I won’t play him daily is because he’s an injury prone player and I could possibly keep him healthy and fresh the rest of the season, plus there’s just nowhere to play him daily.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:27 am
I’d personally move Uggla in the offseason and use that money in other areas.. mainly OF.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:28 am
“it would be a great luxury to have a guy that is on pace to hit close to 40 HR’s and drive in 120 runs and a .960 OPS on your bench, but why would you do that?”
Because he isn’t going to come to Turner Field and have those type of numbers…and Michael Bourn, Jason Heyward, and Martin Prado are all better all-around players? Now if Prado is going to play SS, 3rd, and 2nd, by all means.
Which I think they might try to have a masher in LF with Martin at SS. It would really solve some problems offensively….or make the team deeper.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:31 am
I think there would be plenty of playing time for Willingham, between Prado playing 3rd and possibly some at 2nd, Short and even 1st. Plus it would allow us to give Heyward and Bourn a couple extra days of rest without depleting the lineup.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:33 am
I’d personally move Uggla in the offseason and use that money in other areas.. mainly OF.
Who plays 2nd base then? Wren just signed him to a 5 year, 62 million dollar deal a year and a half ago. Why would he turn around and trade him all of a sudden?
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:35 am
“I think there would be plenty of playing time for Willingham, between Prado playing 3rd and possibly some at 2nd, Short and even 1st.”
If the Braves are seriously considering allowing him to play SS, then yes there is playing time for Martin at 3rd, SS, and LF. But I doubt you are going to see him play for Bourn or Heyward. But I could see him getting A LOT of starts at 3rd and SS with a masher in LF.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:36 am
And I was critical of the extension and he hasn’t lived up to expectations overall(.230/.327/.433, 105 OPS+ in a little over 1,000 PA’s), but it doesn’t make sense to cut bait now. I have faith that he’ll get hot soon and put together a strong 2nd half.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:37 am
But I could see him getting A LOT of starts at 3rd and SS with a masher in LF.
I don’t think Prado will be playing any SS. They just traded for Janish to be the everyday guy there until Simmons gets back.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:39 am
I’m about as worried about Uggla as I am McCann. Both guys hopefully will get it together. Tons of guys getting on hitting streaks for the Brave is this winning streak…very good to see. Rotation seems solid enough for me right now, would love to see one more bat added.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
9:40 am
Hudson has bone spurs in his ankle. Sheets is starting to get on a regular rotation for the first time in two years, Jurrjens has a history of injury concern, Hanson had a shoulder injury last year, Minor/Delgado have been inconsistent…..
Sounds as if they need five starters, not one.
keylargo
July 16th, 2012
9:43 am
you won’t be seeing Martin Prado play another inning at SS this year. Get that idea out out of your head.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
9:46 am
Of course, we get Bumgarner on Thursday afternoon. That won’t be pretty.
Scroom. Bumgarner gets to do the hurt dance Thursday.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
9:47 am
MFin04 I’m about as worried about Uggla as I am McCann.
I’m not half as worried about either of them right now as I was about BMac just over two weeks ago…
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:47 am
MFin04, I won’t be playing Prado at CF or RF for that matter but Heyward could move to CF and Willingham to RF in relief of Bourn and Willingham could spell Heyward on days off as well.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:48 am
Sounds as if they need five starters, not one.
Hah! It’s not a great situation. But they have to live with it through 2012. It’ll be up to Wren to determine what works for 2013 and beyond. I was hoping starting rotation wasn’t going to have to be a need for 2013 and they can just focus on LF, CF, and some new blood in the bullpen and bench – but that just isn’t realistic. Busy arse offseason for Frank and co. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a talented bunch.
A position player core of McCann, Freeman, Uggla, Simmons, Prado and Heyward is strong and Hudson/Hanson in two of the three front slots of the rotation is very good. Kimbrel is the best closer in the league. Just need to reload. I think we all knew this offseason was going to be that sort of offseason. Similar in nature to 2008-2009, but obviously with a much better core in place and different needs.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
9:51 am
and Hudson/Hanson in two of the three front slots of the rotation is very good
I’m no longer aghast at the idea of trading Hanson this offseason.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:52 am
Why would he turn around and trade him all of a sudden? Efrim
Because of the amount of payroll his salary eats and given the budget restraints it’s best to use those resources on someone that’s a little more productive than just 2 months out of the season. As far as finding a replacing at 2nd, I think that would be much easier than finding replacements at other positions. There are a lot of options, we could even look for a 3rd basemen and give Prado 2nd again.. there’s many ways that could go.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:52 am
“I don’t think Prado will be playing any SS. They just traded for Janish to be the everyday guy there until Simmons gets back.”
I’m not sure that is entirely true. He very well could be Martin’s backup now as well. I don’t think anyone thought Martin would be as good as he was at SS, and if they do acquire another bat, SS is the perfect place to put Martin for the short term. Long term it makes sense to rotate him from LF to 3rd.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:54 am
BravesAndBeer @bravesandbeer
@gondeee going to Rome tomorrow, anyone I need to pay attention to?
Talking Chop @gondeee
@bravesandbeer Not much there right now. Drury, Kubitza, Beckwith in the field.
It’s as bad a Rome roster as I’ve seen in a while. Be glad next year when we’ve got Cabrera, Sims, Merejo, Peraza, Franco, Elander, etc. there. It’ll be the best it’s been since 2009.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
9:55 am
I think our core is very strong as well, which we allow us to be more flexible with what we can do in the off season.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
9:55 am
MFin04, what basis do you have for Martin being good at SS? One play? There’s a reason Prado, who is as versatile as it gets, doesn’t play shortstop. He can’t. Only in emergencies.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:56 am
Doesn’t it make the most sense next year to put Martin at 3rd, Uggla at 2nd, and still find the allusive Atlanta Braves future left fielder? Pretty good infield of Prado, Simmons, Uggla, and Freeman. Still going to have to find a LF and CF, but
that is life I guess.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
9:56 am
I’m no longer aghast at the idea of trading Hanson this offseason.
Neither am I, and I’m glad to hear you bring it up first scoots.
Because I was scared too. haha.
Seriously though, there are a lot of starters available in free agency, so I’m not sure if this is the best time to trade him. If Beachy was healthy, I’d be much more inclined too.
So sad. The guy looked so friggin good. But, pitchers get hurt. And sometimes they get hurt and still pitch through it – with less effectiveness.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:57 am
“There’s a reason Prado, who is as versatile as it gets, doesn’t play shortstop. He can’t. Only in emergencies.”
Clearly didn’t watch the games or the Braves moves this weekend. You know they did start him there the next day when they didn’t have to…right?
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
9:58 am
Efrim – Say it ain’t so, you’ve given up on Tommy Hanson? Heck, now I am going to have to argue to keep him. DANG IT!
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
9:59 am
Because of the amount of payroll his salary eats and given the budget restraints it’s best to use those resources on someone that’s a little more productive than just 2 months out of the season.
The team spent several years trying to find RH sock for the lineup, and they aren’t going to open that hole up again. Not while they think he’s still the player on the back of the bubblegum card.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
9:59 am
Who else but Prado could have started Saturday? Juan Francisco?
raleighbravefan
July 16th, 2012
9:59 am
AT – If he’s that overpaid/overrated, who do you trade him to? Not the other GMs jobs to strengthen the Braves and take our rejects.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:00 am
If I’m a GM, after seeing Michael Pineda, I’m just not sure if I’d wonder why a team would be willing to unload a younger starting pitcher. Obviously Gonzalez and Cahill worked out for the most part, but those are the A’s. Ubaldo, Pineda, Latos – to a much lesser extent.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:00 am
I was thinking about the team this morning while stuck in traffic, and I’m starting to waiver on my stance of not “going all-in” on this squad.
These guys are pretty solid top to bottom, but lack that shutdown SP, the “ace”, that it’s going to take to win in the postseason.
I don’t think Dempster or Garza are the answers. Those guys are good, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t have any more confidence in either of them than I do in Hudson and Hanson.
Personally, I think the team either needs to go after Greinke or stand pat. Use Minor as the centerpiece of the deal… gettting an almost-good SP and a few lower level prospects for a 2 month rental would be a good haul for Milwaukee. If the Braves can sign him to an extension, great, but even if they can’t I don’t see how they can expect to win in October with a guy like Greinke.
Greinke, Hudson, Hanson is a lot more intimidating than Hudson, Hanson, and JJ. Nothing against our guys, they are getting the job done, but going into a best of 5, or heaven help us, the WC elimination game, I’d sure feel a lot better about things if there was a true #1 starter on the mound.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:01 am
Efrim – Say it ain’t so, you’ve given up on Tommy Hanson?
Like I’ve said to you before, you’d follow Jair Jurrjens off of a cliff, regardless. I’m not the same with most all pitchers…because pitchers get hurt. It’s in their nature to do so.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:04 am
Oh, I see Pastornicky was called up. You’re right. I think Pastornicky would be a little better at SS defensively, but the offense for Prado makes up for it.
See what I just said: Pastornicky would be a little better defensively the Prado at SS. The Rev was one of the worst defensive SS we’ve seen.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:04 am
Crazy busy offseason, with a lot of moving parts. That’s what we’re headed for, folks. It won’t be refreshing the trade rumor sites to find the next bogus Jurrjens/Prado trade rumors. Lots of movement from the bench, set-up corps, outfield, and starting rotation. Should be fun.
keylargo
July 16th, 2012
10:08 am
I don’t think anyone thought Martin would be as good as he was at SS, and if they do acquire another bat, SS is the perfect place to put Martin for the short term
They could have put 100 guys in the organization at SS and given them 2 or 3 chances and had a 95% success rate. Don’t try and tell me because he had 10 innings there he’s officially a card carrying SS.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
10:09 am
Neither am I, and I’m glad to hear you bring it up first
It’s not because I don’t think he’s a good pitcher; he is, and he’ll be a solid piece of a rotation for anybody.
It’s just that I no longer think he will be the kind of pitcher who can lead a staff from the front, and the Braves will need that kind of guy sooner than later. Hanson has tons of value in the trade market, and, as you say, there will be a gaggle of SP in FA. Maybe one to wear a Braves’ uni.
I’m not advocating a trade of Hanson, mind you, I’m saying only that I wouldn’t be in sackcloth and ashes were it to happen.
Hillbilly
July 16th, 2012
10:09 am
It’s as bad a Rome roster as I’ve seen in a while. Be glad next year when we’ve got Cabrera, Sims, Merejo, Peraza, Franco, Elander, etc. there. It’ll be the best it’s been since 2009.
Nice to see signs of life out of Brandon Drury.
.311/.380/.475/.856 in 19 games since their All-Star Break.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:10 am
Prado had one good play where he had to make a backhanded flip thing to get a force out. Never mind that a solid defensive SS may have been able to field it flat-footed and make an easy underhand toss to 2B. You can’t judge a guy’s defensive abilities from one game.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:11 am
“Greinke, Hudson, Hanson is a lot more intimidating than Hudson, Hanson, and JJ.”
Might be more intimidating, but I don’t think it is a better rotation. Greinke doesn’t exactly have the label as a mentally tough, big game pitcher. Jurrjens on the other hand…guy is pretty much a rock in clutch and big game situations. I’ll take my chances with our 3 and Sheets.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:13 am
“You can’t judge a guy’s defensive abilities from one game.”
He moved well and had 2 or 3 great plays that I saw. They obviously had enough confidence to put him back out there in a 2nd game, that says at least a little bit. And his bat makes him about twice as good as any other SS on this team OPS-wise, so it might be worth it if you have another LF….or at least Diaz against lefties.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:15 am
What big game situations has Jurrjens ever pitched in? He’s never pitched in the playoffs. The one year the Braves did make the playoff recently, Jair was bad enough that he only got three starts in September down the stretch, and didn’t get a start in the Division Series.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
July 16th, 2012
10:16 am
Thought some of you might find this int’resting…I know I did…
http://www.metstoday.com/7878/mets-2012-games/mets-game-89-braves/
…But it wasn’t Bucknor holding something personal against Santana, and it wasn’t necessarily Bucknor “missing” the calls. It was the contrasting catching techniques used by Brian McCann and Josh Thole.
As he always does, McCann was “beating the ball to the spot” and catching pitches when they looked like strikes and “sticking them” — in other words, catching and holding the pitch momentarily to sell the pitch. Umpires like that and appreciate that. Most importantly, when a catcher does that, pitches look more like strikes than if they use the alternative method — also known as “framing.”
“Framing” is what Josh Thole does — on nearly every pitch. It seems to be a technique taught by the Mets organization, because I’ve seen other Mets catchers in the past employ the same nonsense. In “framing,” the catcher tries to “ease” pitches slightly off the plate into the strike zone by moving his glove AFTER catching the ball. At lower levels (little league, high school), with sometimes poorly trained, unprofessional umpires behind the plate, this method can often work. At the MLB level, it should never work. Yet, well over half of MLB catchers “frame.” Why? I guess because they did it their whole life. Also because there are still catching coaches who teach this technique, thinking that it works. Generally, it doesn’t. Catchers who do it, usually make the umpire look bad — especially from the perspective of the centerfield camera, which is already showing an untrue angle (slightly off-center). Framing also can make the pitcher think his pitches are closer than they really are. In some cases, a MLB umpire may automatically call “framed” pitches a ball, thinking that if the pitch has to be framed, it must not be a strike.
Bottom line is this: if a catcher beats the ball to the spot, catches it when it looks like a strike, and holds it, he’s giving the umpire the best possible view of the ball. If a catcher is moving his body and/or his glove as and/or after he catches the ball, he’s disrupting the umpire’s line of sight.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:16 am
raleighbravefan, never said he was a reject but I’d bet we could get a pretty good return from an AL team. There are options out there and I’d be willing to bet it wouldn’t be hard to find another team interested.
I’d be okay with moving Hanson in the offseason if we were able to trade and sign someone like Greinke. I’d probably even entertain the idea if we got Garza but outside of those, not so sure.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:19 am
It’s just that I no longer think he will be the kind of pitcher who can lead a staff from the front, and the Braves will need that kind of guy sooner than later. Hanson has tons of value in the trade market, and, as you say, there will be a gaggle of SP in FA. Maybe one to wear a Braves’ uni.
I’m not advocating a trade of Hanson, mind you, I’m saying only that I wouldn’t be in sackcloth and ashes were it to happen.
100% agree.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:19 am
In Boston Fenway park against one of the hottest offensive teams in baseball at the time….after be relegated to the minors with really no hope of returning to the majors until Beachy got hurt. Then he went 7 2/3 dominant innings.
Since his return…25 innings pitched, 6 earned runs. 3-0 record. Sure he is probably due for a bad start sooner or later, but the guy has been very good in his four games back.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:20 am
Might be more intimidating, but I don’t think it is a better rotation. Greinke doesn’t exactly have the label as a mentally tough, big game pitcher. Jurrjens on the other hand…guy is pretty much a rock in clutch and big game situations.
Obsession.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:21 am
He’s also been very fortunate in his starts back. He was very good in Boston, but in his other starts, he’s gotten knocked around pretty good.
I just think it’s disingenuous to say Jurrjens has “always been a rock” in big-game situations, then call out one game in June to prove that point.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:22 am
Zach Greinke 85 76 .528 3.80
Tommy Hanson 42 27 .609 3.43
Someone can do the more advanced stats if they’d like. Hanson is younger, and a lot cheaper. I’d rather stick with Tommy Hanson. I get that Greinke was on a bad team, but really he has only had one sparkling year and he won the Cy Young, right?
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:22 am
Nice to see signs of life out of Brandon Drury.
.311/.380/.475/.856 in 19 games since their All-Star Break.
Very good to see, Hillbilly. He should repeat the level, imo, unless the tear continues for another six weeks.
Braves have a ton of 3rd base prospects with lots of question marks: Joe Leonard, Joey Terdoslavich, Edward Salcedo, Kyle Kubitza, Brandon Drury, Carlos Franco….
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:24 am
Greinke > JJ… not really debatable. It’s just the way it is.
JJ has been great for the Braves since his return from AAA, but given the choice, I’d rather see Greinke on the mound.
I don’t think the Braves will actually make any big moves this season at the deadline… they might get a guy of Liriano’s caliber, but I’d be very surprised to see them go after one of the bigger names being floated. So, you just might get your wish of seeing JJ pitch in the postseason afterall, MFin. If his knee holds up.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:25 am
Efrim – You have just as many obsessions. Like MPH and K’s being the end all be all. But I don’t really feel the need to call you out all the time. I have my opinions and you can have yours. I’d rather have Jurrjens in the playoffs than Greinke, not to mention the cost would be astronomical.
Braves could sign Jurrjens and Hanson for what it would cost for Greinke. I’ll take those two over him any day.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:26 am
I don’t think there’s any reason for there to be a Greinke vs. Hanson debate. I don’t think Hanson is going anywhere. I definitely think Greinke is a better pitcher, especially since Hanson has slowly regressed in his peripherals. Greinke strikes out more, walks fewer, and gives up fewer homers.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:28 am
It is kind of amazing how a team can have a 7 game winning streak, and still fans believe the team needs more pitchers and more hitters. Sure they probably could use one more of each, but this team could also win the world series with the team they have now plus a healthy Simmons.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:28 am
I just think it’s disingenuous to say Jurrjens has “always been a rock” in big-game situations, then call out one game in June to prove that point.
Agreed. Can’t remember the last time the guy threw a pitch in September. But he’s a rock, that’s for sure.
Venice Jim
July 16th, 2012
10:29 am
From Rosenthal:
But the Brewers, as they plot possible scenarios with Greinke, have talked about exploiting the Rangers-Angels rivalry the way sellers once exploited the Yankees and Red Sox, sources say.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:30 am
I think we trade and sign Greinke long term, move Hanson in the offseason for good pitching prospects or possibly a cf and prospects. We could also look to move Uggla and sign Bourn with a 2nd baseman prospect coming from the Hanson trade. I don’t think you let JJ walk at this point but he could be a possible trade chip… so many options.. could be a really fun off season with a lot of surprises.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:31 am
Like MPH and K’s being the end all be all.
Velocity and missing bats, are a couple of the things scouts and player development people look at when projecting a pitcher’s ceiling. It’s not the end all be all, but it’s important.
You continuing to thump your “Jurrjens handbook” is out of control. Sorry if you think I pick on you, but some sense of reality on your side would be much appreciated.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:31 am
I don’t think the Braves absolutely need another piece to make the playoffs. But adding a starter would go a long ways to increasing the probability that they do. I also think the team, as constructed, would not be a favorite to go far in the postseason. It can be a crapshoot, though. The best you can do is put the best roster possible to give yourself the best chance. If they can add someone to do that, and not dampen the future significantly, they should do it.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:33 am
“But he’s a rock, that’s for sure.”
Exactly. Now you are getting it.
And Tommy Hanson doesn’t struggle late in games…right? So what is that… 3 of 4 games now (almost 4 of 4) that he has gotten shelled in his last inning of work, yet it isn’t a pattern?
Jaded Braves Fan
July 16th, 2012
10:33 am
“Zach Greinke 85 76 .528 3.80
Tommy Hanson 42 27 .609 3.43
Someone can do the more advanced stats if they’d like. Hanson is younger, and a lot cheaper. I’d rather stick with Tommy Hanson. I get that Greinke was on a bad team, but really he has only had one sparkling year and he won the Cy Young, right?”
The problem with that is that Hanson has been going backwards, or at least hasn’t seemed to have improved. His ERA has risen every year he’s been in the league, from 2.89 to 3.33 to 3.60 to 4.02. I think there’s very legitimate concerns about his decline in velocity and struggles to pitch effectively deep in games.
Greinke might be a tad overrated, but he’ll give you lots of innings and strikeouts. That’s exactly what the Braves need.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:33 am
Brian from SC
I definitely think we could make the post season with the team we presently have but I’d like for us to increase our chances of going deeper into the post season.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:34 am
But a pitcher such as Greinke, if the Angels signed him long-term, could replace righty Dan Haren and/or righty Ervin Santana. The team holds a $15.5 million option on Haren for next season and a $13 million option on Santana.
Would love to get Dan Haren in here if the Angels don’t want him.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:34 am
MFin, close your eyes and imagine a world where the Braves have Angel Pagan in CF, a platoon of Hinske/Diaz in LF, and a starting rotation of Hudson/Hanson/Sheets/Minor/Delgado.
Now, what if I told you that the horrific picture in your head, the one where the Braves are in 4th place, 20 games out in August, is actually a glimpse into the future? That what you’re seeing is the 2013 Braves after missing out on or not being able to afford a single big acquisition in the offseason.
Scary, isn’t it? Sadly, though, it’s not all that far from where they’ll actually be next year.
The time to win is now. Don’t put your love of JJ ahead of your love of the Braves. I’d rather see the team win another World Series, personally, and I don’t really care what moves are made so long as it makes the team better.
Adding a guy of Greinke’s caliber makes the post season more likely than pinning the team’s hopes on a guy who has pitched a total of 15 innings in September over the last 2 seasons.
Steve from OH
July 16th, 2012
10:34 am
Braves could sign Jurrjens and Hanson for what it would cost for Greinke. I’ll take those two over him any day.
I’d like to keep Hanson around if we can afford it, but JJ? C’mon, man.
Guy is as good as gone.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:35 am
MFin04, Hanson is a Ketchup pitcher. He puts a strain on the team almost every time out.
ncscoots
July 16th, 2012
10:35 am
move Hanson in the offseason for good pitching prospects or possibly a cf and prospects.
OK, now that would put me in sackcloth and ashes.
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:36 am
“I also think the team, as constructed, would not be a favorite to go far in the postseason.”
They’ve gotta be one of the best teams in the NL without a doubt, who is better? Nationals, Reds, Giants, Dodgers? I’m not really scared of any of those teams. They aren’t the Phillies of old. The National League is ripe for the taking, and heck the Rangers sure do seem to choke in the World Series, and Ron Washington can’t seem to win an ASG or World Series, so let’s see what the Braves can do.
Steve from OH
July 16th, 2012
10:36 am
close your eyes and imagine a world where the Braves have Angel Pagan in CF, a platoon of Hinske/Diaz in LF, and a starting rotation of Hudson/Hanson/Sheets/Minor/Delgado.
Oh God.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:36 am
And Tommy Hanson doesn’t struggle late in games…right? So what is that… 3 of 4 games now (almost 4 of 4) that he has gotten shelled in his last inning of work, yet it isn’t a pattern?
Early to make such claims. You fly of your seat on small samples, don’t you? Jurrjens, Hanson, and Prado at SS. If that’s the type of fan you are, then fine, but it’s not an opinion that I’m going to value a ton if that’s the sort of stuff you want to discuss.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:38 am
Hanson’s breaking balls are still pretty good, but he’s just no missing bats with his fastballs as much as he used to, and not commanding it as well. According to Fangraphs, he’s throwing a lower percentage of pitches in the strike zone than ever, and also not getting many swings and misses. The lower fastball velocity is a pretty obvious culprit.
I still don’t think the possible return in a trade would be enough to make him a likely trade candidate.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:39 am
3 of 4 games now (almost 4 of 4) that he has gotten shelled in his last inning of work, yet it isn’t a pattern?
I keep losing my keys. Lose them all the time. I’m pretty sure the 4 year old hides them on purpose. Anyways, one day a neighbor was over at the house while I was frantically searching for my keys… I finally found them under the couch and she says “They’re always in the last place you look.”
Well, yeah, obviously they’re always in the last place you look, because who in their right mind would keep looking for their keys after they’ve already found them?
Point being, when a SP is replaced, and he’s not injured or gassed, it’s usually because he’s gotten into some trouble.
I’d also be curious, of all the times Hanson has been pulled and left with runners on base, how many of those inherited runners were allowed to score by the bullpen stiff who came in to replace him?
MFin04
July 16th, 2012
10:39 am
“Guy is as good as gone.”
I’m not sure why Jurrjens is as good as gone. Because we have soo many options to replace him? Surely he can’t cost that much, and if no one really wants him anyway like everyone on here suspects, it seems he could be a cheap asset.
Not to mention if he is soo terrible, how are we going to get rid of him?
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:40 am
Matching up against the power arms in the NL of the Nats, Giants, and even the Reds, would be a tall task. The front end of your rotation becomes huge in the postseason, and the Braves would be the worst potential playoff team in that area, as constructed.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:41 am
How do you define “cheap”, MFin04? Just how cheap do you think Jurrjens will be in 2013, if the Braves tender him a contract? What’s your number?
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:41 am
OK, now that would put me in sackcloth and ashes
Would you want to trade him for a position player of equal value? I think I’d pass on that. If they trade him, I’d personally want it to be for prospects. Obviously, I’d want a starter in place of him if he was traded – through free agency, most likely.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:42 am
Power arms are almost a must when it comes to the post season. In short series like that, it plays an important role.
Murph
July 16th, 2012
10:43 am
JJ is going to make, what, $7mil+ next season via arbitration?
That’s a lot of money for an April-to-August pitcher. Or April/July-September pitcher.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:43 am
The lower fastball velocity is a pretty obvious culprit.
The shoulder injury took velocity away, and we have what we have. He’s a good pitcher, but not one that can lead a rotation. He looked like one when he debuted and came up through the system, but that pitcher is no longer here.
Steve from OH
July 16th, 2012
10:44 am
He’s arb-eligible again next season. We’re going to non-tender him without question.
Jaded
July 16th, 2012
10:44 am
“Matching up against the power arms in the NL of the Nats, Giants, and even the Reds, would be a tall task. The front end of your rotation becomes huge in the postseason, and the Braves would be the worst potential playoff team in that area, as constructed.”
Especially if you’re in the one-game wild card round, like Mark Bradley noted the other day. We don’t have anyone who can match up with Matt Cain or Clayton Kershaw. Heck, we might not have anyone who can match up with James McDonald. Hudson and Hanson are decent, but they have too many blowups to feel comfortable giving the ball to in a do-or-die situation at this point.
Of course, we could just go ahead and win the division and make that whole point moot. But I don’t see us passing the Nats without an ace anyway.
Efrim
July 16th, 2012
10:45 am
Nationals – Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmermann, Jackson
Giants – Cain, Bumgarner, Lincecum, Vogelsong
Reds – Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey, Leake
Cardinals – Lohse, Lynn, Wainwright, Westbrook, Garcia
Braves – Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Sheets
Yeah, I’d say an addition of a starter is pretty necessary.
Arkansas Transplant
July 16th, 2012
10:46 am
Efrim, I’ve come to expect those comments from ncscoots.. not a big surprise. I think he does it just to see if he can get me roused up but I’ve caught on to his tactics.
Brian from SC
July 16th, 2012
10:47 am
I like Jurrjens…good kid, good contributor over the last several years. He’s done more, I think, than we could have expected. But I do believe his run with the Braves is over. If he can pitch well enough in the 2nd half to get any kind of trade return, that would be the best thing. To me, the most likely end result is a non-tender.
The reason he’ll be making $7 million in arbitration is because of the way he’s performed early in his career. Someone will pick him up fairly cheap, and he may continue to defy the odds. It just doesn’t make sense for the Braves to be that team.