9:32 pm July 9, 2012, by David O'Brien
July 10th, 20125:52 pm
I dunno, only ten years of playing time, great OPS+ sure but only 6256 plate appearances, lousy fielding stats, he had a great 6 years , 3 good years and one avg year and if he had continued to play his declining years would have made him a borderline pick.
I admit he’s one of my fence sitters for the Hall, but that’s an awfully short career to judge a player on of the all time greats
So is this the focal blog now?
Gattis will most likely be nothing more than a bench player and that is still a big stretch considering his defense.
Ryan Doumit might be a better comparison.
You guys are a buzz kill.
July 10th, 20125:53 pm
I’d say Gattis projects as an impact hitter. you don’t OPS over .900 at 3 levels without solid batting skills.
Maybe. I’m somewhat skeptical because those levels were/are A-ball, High-A and Double-A and he was/is ages 24-25. I think he can be a good major league hitter. I just don’t know about impact.
think koufax had a kinda short career…
July 10th, 20125:54 pm
no Gattis kool aid here. I’m just in a “wait and see” mode, but so far i have been impressed.
IF he can come back and hit, AND IF he can move to AAA next year and continue to hit , AND field at least passably in LF, he could have a lot of value as a bench bat and 3rd catcher.
July 10th, 20125:56 pm
an impact mlb hitter? weell i’ll certainly root for that
Boo-Yah! My grandson took a 93 mph inside fastball over the wall against FBS today for a three-run shot. After that BB’s only. But the CARDS lose 3-7 and with two ties are prolly out of the medal round in EAST COBB. Dang!
Need a little help………….What were Chipper’s All-Star appearences early in career, during the 2+ year’s in left and then after returning to 3rd…??? I seem to remember those LF years knocked him out of the AS automatic mindset @ 3rd and then Rolen or Wright started taking the nod there…? Am I on track???
July 10th, 20125:58 pm
July 10th, 20125:59 pm
Koufax did, but they were 12 years with 2400 strikeouts ,817 walks , 2.76 ERA and most of that in his last 6 years…..
I think the difference is that Koufax was the best in baseball for the last half of his career…..
July 10th, 20126:00 pm
there should be no kissin’ of your sister in baseball
July 10th, 20126:01 pm
Chipper was an all star in- 96,97,98,2000,2001,2008,2011,2012
July 10th, 20126:02 pm
Good god the ASG is a joke, Chipper was not selected during his MVP year of 1999!!!!! wtf? not even a Mgr pick?
July 10th, 20126:05 pm
yeah I wasn’t seriously comparing the two Nick. I understand your position on Kiner.
career 150 is pretty damn good though.116 in both first and last season as his two lows
July 10th, 20126:06 pm
Ha! So Chipper was not an All Star in his MVP season, huh?
All Star selections are awkwardly done. I think they should select the starters for the All Star Teams after the season to play in the upcoming season’s game. Then allow fans to vote in reserves leading up to the game.
His problems are going to be , can he play left field, can he stay injury free, can he avoid the personal demons?
Personal demons????? Sounds like the bar for demons has been lowered considerably.
July 10th, 20126:07 pm
Kiner’s time was impressive, and he IS my all time fence sitting player……
why did he retire? injury?
When did Chipper start in left?………..Gosh, that was awkward………..
July 10th, 20126:08 pm
he spent some time in drug rehab….. reckon that counts as demons
well Chipper came on strong late for his MVP. most of it was those two series againt the Mets late in the year where he pretty much eliminated them singlehandedly
IIRC he was under 300 thru June
July 10th, 20126:10 pm
i think he was there for the ‘02 and ‘03 seasons
Chipper was not selected during his MVP year of 1999!!!!! wtf? not even a Mgr pick?
Well, he only had an OPS+ of 157 in the first half.
July 10th, 20126:11 pm
I would really like to see Uggla hit a homer in the All Star game
July 10th, 20126:12 pm
I thought Chipper decided to sit out of the 1999 All Star Game?
the game was originally conceived to give the fans the choice of what players they were most interested in seeing, not which players were having the best year. Back in that day there was no TV games and the ASG was the opportunity for fans to have their faves playing together. after TV started carrying baseball it was still many years thaat the ASG and the WS were what the great majority of the fans got to watch. It is not written in stone anywhere that selections should be based on who is having the best current three months
July 10th, 20126:13 pm
Here was Chippers first half splits in 1999 : .313/.422/.589 21 HR’s,57 RBI’s, 60 runs, 10 stolen bases
that looks ASG worthy to me
no way he had an OPS+ of 157 through June that year
Or was that a different year?
July 10th, 20126:14 pm
well yes, I agree it USED to be that way, now the dadburn game means something
the game was originally conceived to give the fans the choice of what players they were most interested in seeing, not which players were having the best year.
Which I am absolutely 100% for and why I am very disappointed that Melky Cabrera is on the team I am rooting for tonight.
July 10th, 20126:15 pm
he spent some time in drug rehab….. reckon that counts as demons
Yeah, I don’t think so. I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve known that sent their kids to rehab for smoking a little pot. They told him there from what I read that he was not an addict. Lack of direction at a very young age, smoking a little pot and searching for a deeper meaning to life does not equate demons to me. Maybe a bit of what at one time might have been called a hippie.
yep first half split OPS+ of 157 second half split OPS+ of 196
Chipper was a pretty sure lock to end up at 3rd base from the start. He was 6′ 3″ and 185 when he was drafted and grew into a 6′ 4″ 225 pounder. Very few people have ever had that kind of size and played SS. The knee injury in 94 probably sped up the process and you know CJ had to have some trouble with the move even if he didn’t publically complain.
Bob Horner was a great talent who could be compared to a present Brave in that he was always too heavy and he was never in the kind of shape to play @ 100%. He peaked at about 26 and by 28 was on the way down.
I’ll never forget back in the 80’s before all the media coverage made watching games live all over the world an every day event, I came back from a week in Mexico and found out Horner had hit 4 HR’s in one game. I was astounded until I found out the Braves lost the game. That sort of surmises Horner’s career.
Was through first half…Not sure what the actual date on it is.
July 10th, 20126:16 pm
where are you getting that Nick? he hit 277,300 and 293 in the first three months per BBRef
being what may have been called a hippie sounds like a horrible personal demon to me!!
July 10th, 20126:17 pm
So 4 of the 9 starting positions tonight are occupied by San Francisco Giants’ players…ballot box stuffing….guess they did some vote early, vote often.
July 10th, 20126:18 pm
he had a great July, but at the time when most of the votes were being cast he was not all that great
I’m looking at baseball references splits for first 87 games of 1999 here : (they use pre and post ASG as the split)
July 10th, 20126:20 pm
being what may have been called a hippie sounds like a horrible personal demon to me!!
That’s just sad, Nick.
he had a great July
I’d say. 266 sOPS+ in July of ‘99.
July 10th, 20126:21 pm
The point I’m making is that ASG appearances should never be considered as part of a players resume of success… really, neither should MVP’s (Ted Williams won a triple crown and didn’t win the mVP that year)
July 10th, 20126:23 pm
yeah same place, its that the first half totals were helped greatly by a hot July by which time he was already behind in the voting
and that was back in the day when Williams was popular and often started out hot. onea them guys I said took short runs at Chipper’s glory
July 10th, 20126:25 pm
The point I’m making is that ASG appearances should never be considered as part of a players resume of success…
Well, I don’t know. If you make a lot of ASG it is a pretty good sign that you have been consistently good. Same with the MVP. Whether or not the actual best player whens it every year, an MVP is generally a good sign that you had a very good season.
They should have the ASG after the season is over during a world series travel day
July 10th, 20126:26 pm
on second thought , no , that’s a terrible idea! lol
maybe not Nick but they surely are.
Ted actually lost two MVPs to Joe, both of which he prolly had better years
but that is not the official definition of MVP
July 10th, 20126:27 pm
I reckon counting how often someone was in the top 20 in the MVP ballot matters, but there are plenty of people with multiple ASG appearances who weren’t HOF quality players.
July 10th, 20126:29 pm
I like the timing of the ASG, but I do think that at least the starters should be selected after the previous season and before the current season. Perhaps during the playoffs?
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
Thanks, CB! Looked like he was in an NL jersey…
The writers seem to change the definition of MVP when it suits them, for years it went to the player having the best overall season, now it’s the player having the best season on a team going to the playoffs.
It’s stupid , the Cy Young award goes to the pitcher who had the best year, even if he plays for the Mariners. The best position players of the year should win MVP’s…..
July 10th, 20126:30 pm
Figured Cargo would be playing OF with Beltran DHing.
The point I’m making is that ASG appearances should never be considered as part of a players resume of success… really, neither should MVP’s (Ted Williams won a triple crown and didn’t win the mVP that year) — NickB
It’s all part of the career mosaic, and most people are capable of assigning proper weight to various elements, be they raw statistical data or awards and such that acknowledge how a player was viewed when compared to others of that era.
July 10th, 20126:31 pm
there are plenty of people with multiple ASG appearances who weren’t HOF quality players.
Certainly. Being one of the 40 best players in your league in a season is not at all like being one of the best of all time. But I still think it belongs on the resume.
I disagree on picking the ASG players before the season. Have the players and writers vote in the starting 9 and pitchers, let the vans vote afterwards for the reserves
July 10th, 20126:34 pm
I get that DOB, but I’ve seen people present as if it was on an equal plane as their career hitting stats.
Just trying to put it all in perspective really. anything that involves subjective judging is sketchy as evidence of a player’s ability.
Being that the people who vote for MVP’s also vote for the HOF , it’s not really surprising that they would reference it though.
Isn’t that why DOB wrote the article, so we can talk about our favorites, and where we rank them? — Ward
Exactly right. To stir conversation. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Discussion is good.
July 10th, 20126:35 pm
BTW, the single biggest blot on the BBWAA is that no player has EVER been a unanimous selection for the HOF!!!
Seriously? Isn’t having these kind of grudges a bit juvenile? Somebody actually chose not to vote for Ted Williams?
July 10th, 20126:36 pm
Its for the fans and most fans are not basing it on what you guys base it on
and Nick, the MVP award for many years in its beginning was aimed toward being on a winning team, ver few early selections were of players on a team that was out of it. When Ernie Banks won a couple there was a lot oftodo about it
A-roid ….erase the stats from 01 to 03 and he’ll still the best one…c”mon guys we all see him been a batting champ with what? 21 years old… and two season later making a 40-40 just to name some of his accomplishments (enjoy those A’s as long they’re prime is alive)…he is the best one in this era, but saying that doesn’t mean that others haven’t been graet (like chipp e.g.)
July 10th, 20126:37 pm
Oh, here’s a bit of fun!!
any of you seen this video?
guy does the batting stances of all our favorite Braves of the past, some are so spot on it’s hilarious!
July 10th, 20126:38 pm
he played SS for over half of his career though
July 10th, 20126:39 pm
ARod has played more short than third is that so hard to grasp?
When I was a kid my favorite 3Bs were Brooks Robinson and Graig Nettles. Although I would not put Nettles anywhere near the top 5, I’m surprised no one has even mentioned him at all. I swear the guy had reflexes like a cat, and there were certain plays that only Nettles and Brooksie could make. Between the two, there were some nights where they could have filled up ESPN’s Top Ten Web Gem’s just by themselves.
yeah, perhaps resume wasn’t the proper word…… maybe like IN BOLD on the resume!
July 10th, 20126:41 pm
ASG stats are useless… period. even the whole game has become a chinese torture to see…so loooong, so boring, and the best players just play in the first 3 innings…
sure I remember Nettie. Great defender, poor BA in a day when BA was still pretty highly thought of
July 10th, 20126:42 pm
A-Roid does not deserve to hold the jockstrap of the likes of Schmidt, Brett, Mathews, Jones, Robinson, etc. He shouldn’t even be in the conversation. And for those who are making “Hooters” jokes about Chipper, have you seen the ridiculously slutty eye-candy on A-Roid’s arm these days?
Nettles was a heck of a fielder, but he only had 3 years with an OPS over .800, a career OPS of .750 and wasn’t really ever a big offensive threat
He’s probably a top 20 3rd baseman due to his defense and offensive ability though
oh ok guys alex aren’t in the mix…sorry
@nolie: yeah, his BA was poor, but he did hit almost 400 HRs, and the guy had a GLOVE!
July 10th, 20126:43 pm
mmmmmmmmmm slutty eye candy!
Braves will have Ben Sheets throw a side session Thurs. in Atlanta, then decide whether to start him Sun. vs. Mets.
July 10th, 20126:44 pm
HE IS SO WAY FAR AHEAD OF THEAM ALL…
July 10th, 20126:45 pm
too funny NickB!
I thought I had read that was already decided. Thanx for the update David
A rod has an interesting problem as , by the time his career is over, he will have ended up playing a hundred games or so more at 3rd than SS but darn near even on both…
He will probably never be truly a top 5 at either position due to the change, so i reckon it’s just best to judge him on his merits regardless of position. Kinda like Pete Rose, guy played everywhere at some point and isn’t really someone I would put in the top 5 at ANY ONE position, but judge him on his hitting against everyone else.
July 10th, 20126:46 pm
hey look guys, Arod’s lil’ bro is on the blog
DOB: hope we kick the sheet out of the Mets! Yup, time for the cheesy homonym jokes ; )
July 10th, 20126:47 pm
I hope that sheets can give us some cuality starts…assumig that in this mediocre pitching era a cualtity start by a pitcher is an ERa. over 4.00
Arod is one of the greatest ever players. The PEDs issue will hurt him like it will Bonds and a few others who were guaranteed HOFers without it. a shame
July 10th, 20126:48 pm
CBSSports.com confirms Ben Sheets will make his regular-season debut Sunday against the Mets.
The Braves are desperate for starting pitching with Randall Delgado and Mike Minor struggling. Sheets hasn’t appeared in the majors since 2010, but was reportedly clocked in the 89-93 mph range in two minor league starts. A corresponding move will be announced later this week.
Source: CBSSports.com Jul 10 – 5:57 PM
July 10th, 20126:49 pm
Must be nice to have money:
The Angels plan to make a run at trading for Brewers starter Zack Greinke if the right-hander becomes available prior to the trade deadline, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com.
July 10th, 20126:50 pm
an interesting discussion is on in a baseball sport radio channel yesteray noon…is andrew jones a HOF?
July 10th, 20126:54 pm
not in my opinion. too precipitous a drop off. too bad since I luved the guy
July 10th, 20126:55 pm
Andruw comes up from time to time here as well. My feeling is, he fell off too hard during his 30s. Was he dominant in his 20s? Absolutely. All he had to do was .265 25HR 80RBIs or something in his 30s and he was a lock. Now, he’s clearly on the fence.
July 10th, 20126:56 pm
IMO, IF Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith are HOF’ers than Andruw Jones is (he’s second all time in defensive WAR value to Brooks)
I reckon if he keeps playing and reaches 500 HR’s, they will put him in eventually. I think his glove makes him at least a n “on the fence ” candidate.
I think if he had gone to a team to start in left he would have gotten to 500 already. But it appears he prefers the part time play in the Big Apple.
July 10th, 20126:58 pm
DOWN ON YJE FARM
7:00 p.m. EST start
GCL – ORLANDO
The Mousekateers are mauled by TIGERS 3-1 today.
Lead-off JOSE PERAZA [.307 BA] 2-5, 1 R, 1 3B , 1 SO.
RF CONNER LIEN [.263 BA] 1-3, 1 2B , 1 RBI , 1 BB, 1 SO.
1B JACK LAUMANN [.263 BA] 1-4, E [2, missed catch[.
2B LUIS MADRID [.267 BA] 1-4, 1 SO.
RHR/SP CHAD RODGERS [5.14 ERA] 1.1 IP, no-hits, 1 BB, 4 SO.
CHAD strikes out 4 of 5 batters he faces. He on his last strike with the BRAVES as a 2006 draftee.
1896 vet RHRP PETER MOYLAN [7.71 ERA] 1.2 IP, pristine, 1 SO.
Heh! Nice go PETE!
2012 FA LHRP LUIS MEREJO [BS 1, 2.25 ERA] 4.0 IP, 4 H, 1 HR, 1 R/ER, 0 BB, 4 SO.
Nice outing despite the mistake pitch.
2012 27th round RHRP CHRISTIAN BARCZYOWSKI [6.75 ERA] 1.0 IP, 1 H, zeros, 1 SO.
2012 25th round LHRP BRANDON ROHDE [1.23 ERA] 1.0 IP, 2 H, zeros, 1 SO.
RHRP ELVIN GARCIA [L 1-2, 7.27 ERA] 1.0 IP, 2 H, 1 HR, 2 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 1 SO.
Again a walk and a mistake pitch. But that’s how rookies learn. Except he isn’t…..oops!
BTW, the Quality Start stat is not my favorite……
July 10th, 20127:00 pm
Add LC’s to that list of recommended K.C. BBQ joints. It’s a greasy dive near stadium, and just ate some terrific ‘que and beans from there, courtesy of Yahoo’s Jeff Passan. Dude is a pressbox hero now, brought enough for about a dozen of us to fill up on. BBQ, beans and onion rings. And we’re in close quarters in this pressbox….
I can’t remember the last time I was so stoked about a side session. Just as a human interest story, I am rooting big time for Ben Sheets’ return to the bigs. All the best, Big Ben!
July 10th, 20127:01 pm
If the Angels add Greinke they become a serious contender in the AL
Good luck with the “exhaust”, DOB!
Unless, of course, their actual goal is to keep him away from the Rangers
July 10th, 20127:02 pm
eeesh, might wanna stop and pickup a bottle of Febreze
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