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3,084 comments Add your comment
unbelievable
July 13th, 2012
11:52 am
I thought they had been reporting the $2.6 offer?
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
11:52 am
And despite the number of walks, he’s obviously pitched out of trouble
I know you want Liriano. Lew, but I’d consider it a fail if Wren acquired him over Dempster. Much rather have Dempster and he isn’t going to cost you a ton.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
11:54 am
“So, you believe he is not capable of pitching 7 innings and giving up less than 3 runs based on those 3 starts? Is that what I’m reading here?”
That has been his recent trend. His unearned run total goes up in the last inning he pitches in. In two of his last 4 starts that has happened. He has given up significant amounts of runs in his last inning pitched. So, I’m just asking which would you rather have…keep him in the 7th or pull him in the 6th? I’m not sure the bullpen is really deep enough to think about pulling him early. And in one of the games he was in late…and did get into trouble, but a double play got him out of it.
Arkansas Transplant
July 13th, 2012
11:54 am
You parsed the numbers to make him fit your version of how good he could be.
Just stating the simple truth… the guy is at 83 right now, how many starts would we need him to make? I’m not so sure he’d be reliable to make them. I don’t think he’d be good at all.
Bat Masterson
July 13th, 2012
11:54 am
Well he has been going deeper, but he has been getting in trouble when he has gotten deeper. So take that as you will. It seems he has his meltdown inning as his last inning pitched.
It seems that way, or is that way. I suspect your bias is showing
cricket
July 13th, 2012
11:55 am
2.6 – saved $200,000 from slot amount of 2.8
Hillbilly
July 13th, 2012
11:56 am
I thought they had been reporting the $2.6 offer?
Yeah, that’s what I’m seeing now, but that number was much, much lower yesterday afternoon. Of course it could have been a bogus rumor that the offer was so low. I can’t find the figure we were discussing here yesterday.
Cricket or Ef, do you remember?
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
11:56 am
“this sounds like you always find something you lost in the last place you look”
Yes it does. But not all pitchers are like that. Hanson seems to wear down late in games. Hudson seems to give up runs early in games. Hanson sometimes gives up early solo shots, but doesn’t struggle early in games usually.
I’m perfectly ok with letting Hanson stay in there especially up 4-0, and let him give up 2 or 3 runs with the added benefit that he may keep it at 4-0 or 4-1
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
11:57 am
I suspect your bias is showing
Agreed, Bat.
Frankie
July 13th, 2012
11:58 am
Liriano a difference maker that is going to get you deep in playoffs? Dempster is a guy who will make more of a impact for me.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
11:58 am
Not sure if they were discussing a specific number yesterday. I have a feeling there is a lot of garbage out there prior to these deadlines for leverage one way or the other. Still feel like the Marlins are a terrible organization. They stink.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
11:58 am
“I suspect your bias is showing”
No, I check my facts. And I’m not knocking the guy. He has been going deeper, positive statement. Negative statement, he has had 2 of 4 games with meltdown last innings, and a third possible, but got a DP to get out of it I believe.
Arkansas Transplant
July 13th, 2012
11:59 am
rather than saying he’s had three seasons above 134 IP with one over 190IP.
actually it would be best said, if that’s the criteria you want to use.. he’s had only 3 season’s above 121.
Lew
July 13th, 2012
11:59 am
Efrim – Want him? Maybe, maybe not – depends on who might be a realistic option that I would like better . I wouldn’t have a problem working a package deal with the Twins with the addition of either Willingham or Span who could help us now and the next couple of years as well, but if there’s a better option? Fine. Go for it.
But I’m far from convinced that Dempster would be be had for as little as some believe he would, Garza or Vargas is a not even worthwhile to me and Grienke would cost too much.
cricket
July 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
Hillbilly – they were using the threat of not signing him at all as negotiation tactic. can’t open this link at work, it may have some details. Jim Callis reported it.
https://twitter.com/jimcallisBA/status/223432742472400897
Arkansas Transplant
July 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
MFin04, you’d have to show me the numbers but Hanson has always been a pitcher that struggles early in a game and usually gets better as he goes, not the other way around.
Lew
July 13th, 2012
12:02 pm
Transplant – Yeah, you COULD say it like that, but since all three of the +134 IP are in the last three years well, you’d be skewing it yet again to make him look worse..
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:03 pm
Yep, double checked the facts again. And I was right.
Meltdown vs the D-Backs 3 in the 7th.
Meltdown vs the Cubs 3 in the 7th.
Meltdown vs the Phils avoided with DP in the 7th.
cricket
July 13th, 2012
12:03 pm
Dempster is Theo’s biggest trading chip. he’ll at least try to squeeze max value.
Arkansas Transplant
July 13th, 2012
12:04 pm
Hanson’s knock would be his ability to give up the long ball way too often.
Bat Masterson
July 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
And in one of the games he was in late…and did get into trouble, but a double play got him out of it.
Ah, I get it. He’s doing a late in the game impersonation of JJ’s normal game long routine.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
Meltdown vs the Phils avoided with DP in the 7th.
What happened here? How many runs were given up in the 7th?
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
The fourth game in which I was referring to, was the 4 homer game against the Yankees which was at Yankee Stadium…and I don’t count negative stats at AL East stadiums. Too much of a joke for me.
(It did make Jurrjens start in Boston even more impressive though.)
Frankie
July 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
Dempster’s been on DL 2 times already this season, 35 and a free agent. He’s not as expensive as many think.
Astros got rid of Berkman and Oswalt when nobody thought it was possible. Dempster is attainable.
cricket
July 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
DOB is reporting braves signed Matt Kimbrel, older brother of Craig.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:06 pm
Ah, I get it. He’s doing a late in the game impersonation of JJ’s normal game long routine.
Exactly what I was getting at. It’s just different when Hanson does it, right? Ridiculous.
Hillbilly
July 13th, 2012
12:06 pm
Thanks. Whatever the number was, it was low enough to catch my attention, and I don’t usually pay attention to draft money at all.
Here’s what Callis said in your link, cricket:
Source tells me #Marlins have informed 1st-rder Andrew Heaney they won’t sign him. Have yet to offer close to $2.8 mil pick value.
Arkansas Transplant
July 13th, 2012
12:07 pm
you’d be skewing it yet again to make him look worse..
Lew, not exactly.. it does however show is inability to stay healthy not to mention over those years your pointing to.. there’s only one he posted a sub 5.00 ERA and that wasn’t last year and on top of that.. only one season with a sub WHIP of 1.488.
Looking at those numbers, I don’t have to do anything to make this guy look bad.. he does it all by himself.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:07 pm
Dempster is Theo’s biggest trading chip. he’ll at least try to squeeze max value.
Garza is going to net more than Dempster. More years of control. How much are you going to give up for 2 months of anyone? Dempster isn’t in Hamels or Greinkes class. Nor is he in Beltran’s class last year.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:08 pm
Efrim – No you are just being a blind homer. I didn’t knock the guy. But he has a pattern as of late for going deep into games but giving up large innings in the last inning. That is ALL I stated. If you want to discount it as a small sample size, go for it. But there is no reason to bring personal attacks or other players into.
I gave you the facts, deal with them. The question still posed…is would you rather him get pulled after the 6th or risk the 7th?
Lew
July 13th, 2012
12:11 pm
Frankie – Yep, somewhat surprised no one seems to mention Dempster’s DL time this year.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:11 pm
That is ALL I stated.
No, that’s not all you stated.
Yep, double checked the facts again. And I was right.
Meltdown vs the D-Backs 3 in the 7th.
Meltdown vs the Cubs 3 in the 7th.
Meltdown vs the Phils avoided with DP in the 7th.
There are, ahem, other pitchers on the staff that live on a tight rope getting in and out of trouble. But when Hanson does it, it’s pure luck to you. If you can’t see your bias against Hanson, I’m not sure what to say.
Issues.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:15 pm
The question still posed…is would you rather him get pulled after the 6th or risk the 7th?
He pitches the 7th if he is pitching well and the pitch count is reasonable – just like every other pitcher. Not a large enough sample to determine that Hanson falls apart in the 7th. Ridiculous to label him as such.
But there is no reason to bring personal attacks or other players into.
I’ll stop criticizing you when you decide to look in the mirror and admit you have a serious bias against him and would follow Jair Jurrjens off of a cliff.
Lew
July 13th, 2012
12:15 pm
Efrim – Yeah, Hanson has been very lucky to have put up almost identical numbers to Grienke over their careers, yet Grienke is an Ace and Hanson a 3-4 pitcher – at least according to some here.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:17 pm
“But when Hanson does it, it’s pure luck to you.”
No, I just think it probably has a lot more to do with him tiring and having to throw a lot of pitches to get to the 7th inning than being lucky or unlucky in the 7th. He seems to wear down late in games as of late, and give up big innings.
Jurrjens on the other hand lives and dies by contact and defense. He isn’t going to strike guys out, and he relies on making guys put the ball in play and make outs. Maybe that is dangerous, maybe it isn’t. But if you can consistently get guys to hit the ball weakly, you should be good.
This isn’t a Jurrjens vs Hanson debate. It merely is the fact that Hanson seems to be giving up his earned runs late in games.
So the question is still there, pull him after 6 or leave him in for the 7th? I mean if you are a huge ERA guy, you’d want to pull him after the 6th. If you are a practical, bullpen saving guy, you let him go at it in the 7th.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:19 pm
“have a serious bias against him and would follow Jair Jurrjens off of a cliff.”
I’ll admit it on the same day that admit that you feel the exact opposite.
I’m really not trying to be anti-Hanson on this subject, I just think his last 3 starts are having similar patterns.
Danga
July 13th, 2012
12:22 pm
Meltdown vs the Phils avoided with DP in the 7th.
DPs count against pitchers now? I thought that was called pitching out of it.
And is 2 of 4 really a pattern or just a statistical anomaly? Not much of a sample size. As for your question, he has only given up more than 4 runs twice this season. I don’t really care if he gives up his runs in the 7th or the 2nd as long as he is pitching well enough to allow us to win baseball games.
That being said, one of my biggest gripes with Fredi is that he doesn’t trust his starters. If it is the 6th or later and a starter gives up a hit, Fredi is walking out to the mound. I’d like to see a longer leash with the starters. It isn’t like we have the greatest firemen out of the BP this year. Plenty of inherited runners are coming home to score after pulling the starter.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:24 pm
I’ll admit it on the same day that admit that you feel the exact opposite.
I think you’ve made a career on dumping Hanson. Jurrjens pre-2010 is a wonderful pitcher and I wish we had him back. This has been my feelings toward Jurrjens this entire time in conversations with everyone. Not nearly what you feel about Hanson.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:25 pm
“Plenty of inherited runners are coming home to score after pulling the starter.”
That is where I am at with it, I think you have to leave him in there, but once things get tight I’d be a little worried…and might go to the bullpen.
CrαZy
July 13th, 2012
12:25 pm
David O’Brien@ajcbraves
#Braves have signed Matt Kimbrel, older bro of Craig Kimbrel, inking 30 of top 31 picks before today’s deadline. Levi Borders the 1 unsigned
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:28 pm
Levi Borders the 1 unsigned
Really thought we were going to get him, too. His father works for the team.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:29 pm
“think you’ve made a career on dumping Hanson.”
The problem is the guy could be elite, but doesn’t have a way to limit his pitch count, and go deep into games consistently. I can’t stand the long at bats in which he can’t put guys away. That is my only gripe with Hanson. That and probably the homerun ball.
On the flip side, I think too many people think Jurrjens is just this lucky guy, who can’t strike people out, and therefore isn’t a great MLB pitcher. And the whole pre-2010 number is ridiculous. His best year was the beginning of 2011 until he got hurt.
The guy can still pitch. If he continues to get stronger and get his confidence back I see no reason why he can’t be a dominant pitcher for the Braves.
Best case scenario, I’d like Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson, and now Beachy, to be a very formidable starting four in the rotation for years to come.
Danga
July 13th, 2012
12:30 pm
Career wise, the 2nd inning is by far Tommy’s worst. So if this is actually a trend, I think it could be seen as an improvement.
Tommy’s real problem is Tim McClelland. Career 15.58 ERA in games with him calling the balls and strikes.
I would like to thank Scoots for showing me the splits page on baseball reference thus allowing me to really get at the nitty gritty behind a player’s performance.
CrαZy
July 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
Matt is Craig’s younger brother …
monty
July 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
Whew! I never felt so alone, I was posting on the other blog under the story about Ben Sheets, and all I kept seeing were names I didn’t recognize. I knew something was up so I looked back under the old blog story and found you guys. A feeling of calm reassurance overcame me. I’m sorry though, I may have let the secret out by saying over there that there must be a secret blog where everyone else is. So, if you start seeing a bunch of posts by people you don’t recognize, it was my fault.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
And the whole pre-2010 number is ridiculous. His best year was the beginning of 2011 until he got hurt.
That’s your opinion, but I don’t believe his 2011 form was sustainable. I liked Jurrjens from ‘09. More velocity. Pitched awesome that year for a full 215 innings. Guy was a borderline #1.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:32 pm
Danga – Yeh, who is the most difficult batter for Hanson, the first one of the game that hits a homer?
Of course once he gives up the homer he sits down like 15 guys in a row.
Someone just hit a homer off of him in pre-inning warmups and then let him pitch.
brian
July 13th, 2012
12:32 pm
1. If the rest of the Braves play like they are supposed to, the Braves should play over .500 ball when Simmons is out
2. If Wren makes the move (s) he was planning on before Simmons got hurt, the Braves should be one of the best teams in the league.
3.If 1 and 2 happen, and Simmons comes back full speed, we should be a favorite to go deep in the playoffs or win it all.
all that starts with people playing like they are supposed to and are expected to play
Danga
July 13th, 2012
12:33 pm
I almost wonder if JJ suffered from a bit of the Melky syndrome. A young guy that never had to work really hard to be good at baseball and thus didn’t do the necessary work away from the game to keep at that kind of level. I hope this knee injury and his performance from earlier this season was a wake up call for him, but I doubt we really know until next season.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:34 pm
“I don’t believe his 2011 form was sustainable”
It is baseball, nothing is sustainable. It is like the worst game in the world for consistency. That is why we are driven crazy as fans.
Nothing like the Braves losing 8 in a row, then winning 6 in a row. Crazy, crazy game.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:36 pm
“all that starts with people playing like they are supposed to and are expected to play”
Tell that to the Phillies and Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cliff Lee, Shane Victorino, Jimmy Rollins, and Roy Halladay.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:36 pm
keithlaw @keithlaw
New CBA didn’t outlaw posturing. “@ltw0303: @keithlaw Now the Marlins are signing Heaney, amazing”
Nice.
monty
July 13th, 2012
12:37 pm
Pitching is alot like realestate, location, location, location. Case in point Verlander in the All-Star game. THrowing 98-100 fastball with a whiffle ball type curve but he couldn’t locate it, fell behind hitters and got them in good counts to hit in. NL put up a crooked number. If he locates his stuff chances are they go 1,2,3 in the 1st.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:39 pm
Padres outfielder/first baseman Mark Kotsay is drawing interest from multiple clubs, including the Reds, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports.
Jamie Kotsay drawing interest from fans DOB Braves blog.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:40 pm
Jesse Sanchez of MLB.com reports that the Rangers are interested in Justin Upton but are “doubtful” to part with top prospects Mike Olt or Jurickson Profar.
I’d trade Olt for Upton. Wouldn’t trade Profar for all of the gold in China.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:42 pm
Efrim – Are you talking about if you were the Rangers or Braves? I don’t think Upton would be very productive in Atlanta, but in Texas, he probably would put up decent numbers.
brian
July 13th, 2012
12:43 pm
no kidding MFin04 – let Hanson throw a few in BP to Heyward grooved in his favorite spot. Then go pitch
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
12:44 pm
Mike Olt and Jurickson Profar are the Rangers top two prospects, MFin. Profar is the best prospect in the sport. I’m just saying that if I was Texas, I wouldn’t part with Jurickson. But I’d trade Olt.
monty
July 13th, 2012
12:45 pm
Bat Masterson – “Hanson is at 5.9 and on pace for right at 200 innings”
That’s also what he has avg. over his career in innings pitched per start.
MFin04
July 13th, 2012
12:47 pm
“let Hanson throw a few in BP to Heyward”
Not BP, I’m talking during his warm up pitches. I figure if the catcher can throw down to 2nd, there is no reason a batter can’t stand in during warm ups.
Murph
July 13th, 2012
12:49 pm
I wonder if Frank Wren and his team of front office flunkies analyze each possible trade the way we do on the blog…
I bet he’s got a guy, just like Shaun, who spouts stats and advanced metrics all day while the other guys all look at each other and roll their eyes. And I bet there’s a Ward, who walks into the room and says something like “Teheran, Delgado, Minor, and Uggla for King Felix… what do you think?” and everyone makes fun of him.
Murph
July 13th, 2012
12:51 pm
Profar is the best prospect in the sport.
Better than The Terd? Better than GATTIS???
CrαZy
July 13th, 2012
12:53 pm
And I bet there’s a Ward, who walks into the room and says something like “Teheran, Delgado, Minor, and Uggla for King Felix… what do you think?” and everyone makes fun of him.
You think he says peace everytime he leaves the room… only to come back 5 min later with another trade proposal?
phil
July 13th, 2012
12:56 pm
When can we expect Gattis to take over in left? Who cares if he’s been injured…he’s much better than Prado or anyone else on the team.
brian
July 13th, 2012
1:00 pm
agree Efrim
brian
July 13th, 2012
1:00 pm
i would trade profar for Mike Trout – that is about it
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
1:08 pm
Kirk [via mobile]
Do you think a 6 yr 120 mil offer from phillies gets hammels signed?
Jayson Stark (1:05 PM)
Since I reported on this story last night, let’s get to the Cole Hamels saga first. I actually don’t think that gets it done. Not in midseason anyway. My guess — and I obviously have no idea what Hamels is thinking — is that this offer has to be bigger than the Matt Cain deal, and the AAV has to approach or beat the $24M a year the Phillies gave Cliff Lee. So it’s going to have to be even a bigger number than yours, believe it or not.
Minimum six years, 147 million if I were Hamels.
Efrim
July 13th, 2012
1:10 pm
Jeff (Mesa, AZ)
Even with the addition of Ben Sheets, do you think the Braves will still be looking to upgrade their pitching staff with someone like Greinke?
Jayson Stark (1:09 PM)
Absolutely. Unless Sheets is unhittable in his next two or three starts. But the history of his injury makes him tough to depend on. I still think that if the Braves can make a deal for a pitcher they can control beyond this year (meaning, in Greinke’s case, a trade-and-sign), they’ll be aggressive. The window to win with Chipper is rapidly expiring.
cricket
July 13th, 2012
1:18 pm
Profar is the best prospect in the sport.
Better than The Terd? Better than GATTIS???
GATTIS ain’t no stinkin prospect. GATTIS is a Made Man.
Frankie
July 13th, 2012
1:18 pm
Stay loose Kris Medlen.
Could get some delays tonight although the rain is a welcome sight.
cricket
July 13th, 2012
1:35 pm
Frankie broke blog?
Frankie
July 13th, 2012
1:39 pm
Could be cricket, sorry I disappointed everyone with a weather forecast.
DAP
July 13th, 2012
1:40 pm
there are a couple of pretty important series in the east this weekend. braves mets and marlins nats are biggies. obviously, the braves and mets are fighting for 2nd place. but if the marlins dont do something soon they may need to consider being sellers. playing a first place team, they really need to have a good showing.
jeffrey d
July 13th, 2012
1:40 pm
cricket caveman?
cricket
July 13th, 2012
1:44 pm
Seriously? Hottest trending baby names for 2012 –
Senna, Niall, Arya, Decimus , Caia, Gatsby, Blue , Zebulon , Sybil , Calix, Halcyon , Django , Nova , Theon
cricket
July 13th, 2012
1:46 pm
there are a couple of pretty important series in the east this weekend.
Statement Series
jeffrey d
July 13th, 2012
1:48 pm
Where’d you find that list? Norway?
cricket
July 13th, 2012
1:56 pm
too many vowels for Norwegian names
it seems some of those names are inspired by Twilight and Hunger Games. at 1st glance, i thought this was a list of usual crazy celeb baby names.
http://nameberry.com/blog/baby-names-2012-whats-hot-now
Steve from OH
July 13th, 2012
1:58 pm
Seriously? Hottest trending baby names for 2012 –
Senna, Niall, Arya, Decimus , Caia, Gatsby, Blue , Zebulon , Sybil , Calix, Halcyon , Django , Nova , Theon
Decimus? That’s pretty old-school.
DAM
July 13th, 2012
1:59 pm
There’s a new blog up, everyone.
nolie
July 13th, 2012
2:05 pm
It seems like they changed the links lately. used to always bring me to the main blog when I clicked under David’s picture. lately it ain’t been doing that
nolie
July 13th, 2012
2:10 pm
Damn, I broke it again….
Ward
July 13th, 2012
3:24 pm
Hello everyone! My top trade list
Bats
1. Josh Willingham
2. Justin Upton
3. Cuddyer
Top Pitchers
1. Greinke
2. Dempster
3. Liriano
4. Garza, because the Braves clobbered him.
Short Stops
only one
1. Scutaro
This is my list, and optoins…..
Ward
July 13th, 2012
3:25 pm
Would like Wren to make two moves, and we are in the Play – Offs……..Deep into the night…..