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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,084 comments Add your comment
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:14 pm
count_schemula, you realize if they release Uggla, they still have to pay him, right? This isn’t the NFL.
That contract doesn’t just go away. So essentially the Braves would have to pay Uggla, pay Upton, pay Scutaro, pay Bourn plus give up players for Upton and Scutaro while only getting anything from three of those guys.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:14 pm
Headley, Willingham, Upton………. Lot of delusional thoughts being posted. Braves in upper echelon in NL in all offensive categories. Do you really think offense is the biggest need to address????
Braves 15th out of 16th in quality starts! Starting pitching is what will be the death knell of this team if not addressed. Looking for something that is right in front of you.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:14 pm
“count_schemula, you realize if they release Uggla, they still have to pay him, right? This isn’t the NFL.”
Someone picks him up.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:15 pm
Justin’s numbers would not be the same in Atlanta as they are in ‘zone. fair dropoff most likely
raleighbravefan
July 12th, 2012
2:16 pm
I doubt Wren will pull the trigger, at least on a pitcher, until he sees Sheets pitch a time or 2. More of JJ and the kids will enter the equation as well. Probably a move will come close to the deadline.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:17 pm
we are talking about next season Frankie
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:17 pm
Prado needs to be at third regularly next season.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:18 pm
if he is so bad why would somebody else pick up his salary?????
DAP
July 12th, 2012
2:18 pm
nolie caint imagine what would make someone think that Headley will be as good a hitter though
all headly need to be as good as willingham is a little more power. leaving petco might hel, along with being in his prime, combined with willingham declining.
if i thought willingham was going to OPS .900 for the next 2 seasons that would be one thing. but, he’ll probably OPS more like .800, and i think headly can do better.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:18 pm
Prado’s metrics are about as good in left as at third
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Braves 15th out of 16th in quality starts! Starting pitching is what will be the death knell of this team if not addressed. Looking for something that is right in front of you.
Frankie’s right, and reports are that Wren is focusing starting pitching as his priority. Facts are facts.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
“if he is so bad why would somebody else pick up his salary?????”
Same with Joe Johnson.
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Prado’s metrics are about as good in left as at third
Hitting, fielding, or both, nolie?
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
I’ve always said Uggla came with a huge opportunity cost. This is that opportunity cost.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:21 pm
you have a point DAP, no way to know what Headley would do away from SD. I doubt Wills stays at 900 but I don’t think it is a given that he would drop to 50 points below his career either. Willingham gives us “corner OFer power” though which will keep scoots calm….
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
nolie, everybody’s numbers (the ones that aren’t park-adjusted) would drop going from Arizona to Atlanta. Worse numbers doesn’t mean less value. He would more or less be the same player (or perhaps better, considering his age). His non-park-adjusted numbers just wouldn’t look the same.
That doesn’t mean I think the Braves can or should go after Justin Upton, considering what it would probably take. But I do think he would do just fine here as he would anywhere.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
just fielding, he is a bit above average at both spots. where he plays will be determined by who Frank can sign I imagine
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
If you can’t hit 40HRs in PETCO (unless you are Adrian G) I don’t know why that stops you from hitting .330 in a spacious park. The Pads need a team like Herzog’s Cardinals.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
2:24 pm
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Braves 15th out of 16th in quality starts! Starting pitching is what will be the death knell of this team if not addressed. Looking for something that is right in front of you.
Frankie’s right, and reports are that Wren is focusing starting pitching as his priority. Facts are facts.
>>>>
DITTO THAT and ya’ll want to know what team has the best pitching staff in the NL?
The Nationals.
From the Yahoo sports page……
The Nationals, in fact, have made it a habit of winning without everyone on board. Catcher Wilson Ramos is out for the year. Third baseman Ryan Zimmerman, closer Drew Storen and outfielders Michael Morse and Jayson Werth are among those who have spent extended time either on the disabled list or hobbled with injuries.
”I don’t know any club that could lose your 3-hole hitter, your 4-hole hitter, your 5-hitter, your starting catcher, your closer and done what we’ve accomplished in the first half,” Davey Johnson said. ”And we’re going to get healthier in the second half, so I think the pressure that we’ve had to deal with to this point has been a lot more than is going to be coming in the second half.
Simply put, those Nats are F-N scary.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
“Simply put, those Nats are F-N scary.”
And this off season they added Gio and Edwin.
They did a great job even with Werth’s bad contract.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
Shaun of course most num,bers would drop, I am simply pointing out to some easily excited folks that he will not hit here like there. It doesn’t matter that anybody’s numbers would drop, what does matter is what he would procuce here as compared to whoever else is considered who would likely not be from ‘zona.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
Yeah with those starters they just don’t seem prone to playing stretches of bad baseball. I am pretty impressed with the Nats, going to be difficult to catch them.
Efrim
July 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
Prado’s metrics are about as good in left as at third
More value at 3rd though, and I have to think it will be easier for Wren to find an outfielder than a 3rd baseman. I mean, 3rd is at it’s weakest in years throughout the league….
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
the offensive guys being discussed are much about the future in mind, yes he will likely get a pitcher for this season
B_F 54
July 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
Yes enjoyed the Stones link@Diamondbackmac
Efrim
July 12th, 2012
2:30 pm
Chris (Alabama)
You don’t seem to be too down on Teheran after his troubling 2012 stats. If you were the Braves’ GM, would you look to move him in a deadline deal to acquire a top-flight SP?
Klaw (2:04 PM)
I’d be open to trading him for something more than a two-month rental.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:31 pm
3rd base is very weak. Even Headley could command more than people are comfortable with.
And Headley is no Beltre.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:31 pm
normally I would agree Efrim but we have been trying to get a LFer with no success since the flood ….
jeffrey d
July 12th, 2012
2:31 pm
Joe Johnson isn’t “bad”
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:32 pm
Prado’s metrics are about as good in left as at third
More value at 3rd though, and I have to think it will be easier for Wren to find an outfielder than a 3rd baseman. I mean, 3rd is at it’s weakest in years throughout the league….
I think this is accurate.
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:32 pm
count_schemula, spaciousness of a park is not the only factor in whether a park is pitcher- or hitter-friendly. The visibility, the weather, the shape of the outfield aside from its spaciousness and other factors could very well come in to play.
Also just because a guy hits .330 doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be as productive offensively as a guy who hits in the .260’s.
cricket
July 12th, 2012
2:33 pm
nats are so good and can still easily lose the division. i’m not scared.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:33 pm
“Joe Johnson isn’t “bad””
Exactly.
But he had come to be viewed as an impediment.
Uggla is what he is at this point. Face it. You love the occasional HR? Great. He’s batting 7th last time I checked.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
“normally I would agree Efrim but we have been trying to get a LFer with no success since the flood ….”
I’m thinking a platoon with say Matt Diaz and picking up a guy like Willie Harris would solve the problem…….
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
If you can’t hit 40HRs in PETCO (unless you are Adrian G) I don’t know why that stops you from hitting .330 in a spacious park. The Pads need a team like Herzog’s Cardinals.
>>>>
Whitey Herzog was an absolute genius simply because the man intrinsically understood that OBP was and is the most important offensive statistic in the game of baseball. He built his teams around pitching, defense and speed. Eschewed the long ball and won while turning the baseball world on it’s head.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:35 pm
cricket has more valor than me
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:35 pm
lso just because a guy hits .330 doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be as productive offensively as a guy who hits in the .260’s…Shaun
that’s too much spread. I’ll take the 330 guy, hits are more valuable than walks and that too big a difference to make up for IMO
Murph
July 12th, 2012
2:35 pm
I am pretty impressed with the Nats, going to be difficult to catch them.
How many more times do the Braves play the Nats?
One series sweep = caught.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:35 pm
“Also just because a guy hits .330 doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be as productive offensively as a guy who hits in the .260’s.”
Funny I always said that about Tony Gwynn.
But regardless with your barometric pressure analysis and moon phase study, a team of powerless, slow .260 hitters are not gonna get it done in SD either.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:37 pm
willie harris? guy can only hit against the Braves…..
CrαZy
July 12th, 2012
2:37 pm
Release Uggla–count_schemula
You must be confused see in baseball they have these things called guaranteed contracts!! You’re thinking of the NFL.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
joking
Efrim
July 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
normally I would agree Efrim but we have been trying to get a LFer with no success since the flood ….
If Wren can’t get an .800 guy out there for 2013 with the outfielders available in free agency and trade, I am honestly not sure what to say and I would question his priorities for this team this offseason. Just no excuse with whats out there, what we have available in trade, and with the money available as well.
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
nolie, my point is that Justin Upton would likely produce more or less the same (or better, given his age) playing his home games in Atlanta instead of Arizona relative to other rightfielders or leftfielders. It just wouldn’t show up in his non-park-adjusted numbers. But his offensive value wouldn’t change, since everybody’s non-park-adjusted numbers would go down in Atlanta compared to Arizona.
I think people should get excited if Justin Upton played here. His offensive production wouldn’t be the issue. Again, his production would be the same or better, it just wouldn’t show up in the basic numbers. The issue is what it would take to get him and that it probably doesn’t make much sense for the Braves to trade for him.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
been there, done it.
cricket
July 12th, 2012
2:39 pm
yep, you release a player, he is picked up by some other team, you still have to pay out your contract with him. your extreme dislike of the said player is not acceptable as an excuse to rescind the contract.
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
One series sweep = caught.
orrrrrr…. 7 games back
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
“You must be confused see in baseball they have these things called guaranteed contracts!! You’re thinking of the NFL.”
Like I said, someone picks him up. If not, withdraw it.
You see that super hot chick over there? Somewhere, someone is probably sick of her. How long is she going to be single?
ncbravesfan90
July 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
Stephen Strasburg said Thursday that he has not discussed an innings limit with Nationals brass.
There was talk in March that Strasburg, who had Tommy John surgery in late 2010, would be limited to between 160-170 innings this season. But perhaps things have changed. “I have no clue how many innings I’m going to throw this year,” said the young right-hander. “Nobody’s said anything to me. I feel great right now.”
Source: ESPN Jul 12 – 2:38 PM
So in other words, no shutting down Strasburg.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:41 pm
Fine.
Trade Uggla for Scutaro.
Sign Bourn.
Trade for Upton.
Do I have to everything around here? lol
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
I know your point Shaun, I don’t agree. and as I said that was not my point to begin with
Murph
July 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
If we have to trade half the minor leagues to get a single guy, I can think of 10 guys I’d rather have than Upton.
cricket
July 12th, 2012
2:42 pm
honest question – who are min. .800 FA OF available for 2013?
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
Because everyone hates 24 year old that finish 3rd in the MVP vote.
We should get Adam Dunn.
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
count_schemula, hitters hitting in the .260’s-.240’s are among the Padres best hitters: Headley, Alonzo, Quentin, Venable.
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:44 pm
We’ll see what the Gnats do through the stretch.
Ask the Braves just how critical stretch performances are.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:45 pm
“count_schemula, hitters hitting in the .260’s-.240’s are among the Padres best hitters: Headley, Alonzo, Quentin, Venable.”
And they are tied for last place.
You are the .260 fan.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:46 pm
I think you are being a bit optimistic about what is available Efrim. ecxept for a few out of out reach I am not all that impressed, nor am I as impressed with what we will be offering. hope yor are right
unbelievable
July 12th, 2012
2:47 pm
So in other words, no shutting down Strasburg.
Mike Rizzo says differently.
ncbravesfan90
July 12th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Mike Rizzo says differently.”
He must have forgotten to tell the one who he’s shutting down then.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:49 pm
if they are in the thick of the fight I’ll believe a Strasburg shutdown of any length when I see it
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
2:51 pm
Uggla’s bat will come around simply because he’s rested due to the all-star break, and I doubt Uggla’s two at bats in the All-Star game can be counted against such a statement. The guy was gassed from playing virtually every game. He’s gonna bust out in the second half.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:51 pm
“if they are in the thick of the fight I’ll believe a Strasburg shutdown of any length when I see it”
+1
What they really want is a big enough lead to skip a start or three.
Ward
July 12th, 2012
2:52 pm
Hello everyone! Last night I watched MLBNet., and Justin Upton was mentioned, as possible trade. At first I said “no way”, but he is linked to the Braves in trade rumors. Arizona wants a 3rd baseman, and pitching prospects. How about Minor, and “The Terd” for Justin Upton, and one of their lower prospects. As long as Prado stays I’m O.K. with getting Justin Upton.
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:52 pm
Trade Uggla for Scutaro – Maybe if we click our heels twice…
Sign Bourn. – Only after a fierce Boras-instigated bidding war. Bourn finally signs for $20 million per… with L.A.!
Trade for Upton. Throw in all top Braves’ prospects just to cement the deal.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:54 pm
“How about Minor, and “The Terd” for Justin Upton”
lol
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:54 pm
Uggla’s all about streaks, huh? He’s due to heat up. Nice timing for the second half.
Ward
July 12th, 2012
2:54 pm
Braves move Heyward to LF, and we have Bourn, and Justin Upton in RF. Now that is an out field. Speed, and “D”. Sign Bourn…….
kenhotlanta
July 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
Coach, I try not to talk out of my arse near as much as you do.
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
It’s not that players can’t hit in Petco. It’s that the non-park-adjusted numbers take a hit because of the park. The players are more or less the same no matter where they go. It’s the basic stats that change. In general a player doesn’t become less valuable or more valuable based on the ballpark. His basic stats might look different. But a player with a .740 OPS in Petco is going to be more valuable offensively than a player with a ..780 OPS in Colorado, assuming they play the same position.
So if someone like Justin Upton were to come to Atlanta and his OPS drops to, say, .810 with the Braves from .834 while with the D-Backs, it’s not that Upton became less productive, per se. It’s that the basic stats took a hit. You wouldn’t avoid trading for him just because his basic stats are going to take a hit. All players basic stats would take that kind of hit.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
We can talk to Bourn now. If we tell him we are after Upton he might like it here.
Upton Bourn Heyward
All I want to do is turn Uggla’s money into Bourns money.
Jeff R
July 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
Heck, with Boras as his agent, Bourn probably wouldn’t sign an autograph without first taking bids.
ncscoots
July 12th, 2012
2:56 pm
nats are so good and can still easily lose the division. i’m not scared.
We ain’t shook.
if they are in the thick of the fight I’ll believe a Strasburg shutdown of any length when I see it
I lean that way, my own self. It’s one thing to have sat Zimmerman last year on a .500 ballclub, but a game or two out and fill five Strasburg starts in September with (who? I don’t even know)? What if they make the playoffs? Gonna sit him in October, too?
Better go armed and escorted, if so.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
Braves move Heyward to LF, and we have Bourn, and Justin Upton in RF. Now that is an out field. Speed, and “D”. Sign Bourn…….Prado can play 2nd base with Uggla as the DH…..
No wait, what league are we in?????
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
“No wait, what league are we in?????”
Ask Selig. Anything is possible.
Efrim
July 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
I think you are being a bit optimistic about what is available Efrim. ecxept for a few out of out reach I am not all that impressed, nor am I as impressed with what we will be offering
noles, but there is more available in terms of corner outfielders than there is 3rd baseman. By far. I’d be shocked if Prado wasn’t at 3rd next year. One player like Chase Headley vs. the 15 corner outfield options(whether they’re good or not is up for debate). I just think it makes more sense to put a player like Prado at 3rd base – where he is good defensively – makes him more valuable of an asset.
nolie
July 12th, 2012
2:58 pm
So if someone like Justin Upton were to come to Atlanta and his OPS drops to, say, .810 with the Braves from .834 while with the D-Backs, it’s not that Upton became less productive, per se…Shaun
how many times do I hafta explain that was not my point?
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
2:59 pm
Strasburg shut down will be the worse thing to happen to the Braves.
They will bring Lannan up in September. We can beat Strasburg.
ncscoots
July 12th, 2012
2:59 pm
how many times do I hafta explain that was not my point?
What’s the current count? Quadruple it.
Steve from OH
July 12th, 2012
2:59 pm
Writing well is its own joy. No applause, or even audience, is needed for the well-sung song and its voice.
Explains how I, as a poor writer, could not grasp that fact…
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
3:00 pm
count_schemula, the league NL average batting average is .253. There are four teams hitting in the .250’s or worse that are above average in runs scored. I’m a fan of getting on base and gaining bases. That is offense. Batting average only tells a fraction of the story when it comes to offense.
If the Padres were full of hitters like Headley, Alonzo, Quentin, Venable and could play solid defense and had a solid pitching staff, they would be a very good team.
cricket
July 12th, 2012
3:00 pm
If we tell him we are after Upton he might like it here.
come on man. Bourn is going to sign with the team that pays him max and there’s nothing wrong in it, he’s not going to give braves this new-fangled Upton discount. if you are talking about Kate Upton on the other hand…
anyway, some team is going to over-pay Bourn this off season and it won’t be braves.
also, uggla money is not going anywhere.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
3:00 pm
kenhotlanta
July 12th, 2012
2:55 pm
Coach, I try not to talk out of my arse near as much as you do.
>>>>>>>
I would like a double cheese burger, hold the pickles. Large fries and a large vanilla milk shake and make it snappy, I gotta get back to your moms basement
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
“We can beat Strasburg.”
It is weird how Uggs is 14-3 with 23HRs against Stras. He’s batting like 4.66… lol
Efrim
July 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
Willingham would be nice.
cricket
July 12th, 2012
3:02 pm
how many times do I hafta explain that was not my point?
What’s the current count? Quadruple it.
and then finally realize the futility and give up
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
“come on man. Bourn is going to sign with the team that pays him max and there’s nothing wrong in it, he’s not going to give braves this new-fangled Upton discount. if you are talking about Kate Upton on the other hand…”
Not a discount, so much as take the Braves seriously.
He’s too old for a super crazy deal, like Reyes. But, yes, we will have to pay.
If we NEVER pay anyone… wild cards and first round exits forever.
ncscoots
July 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
he’s not going to give braves this new-fangled Upton discount
He might give ‘em a World Series discount, though. Win a ring for the man, and he’s less apt to boogie.
Ward
July 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
I like it! Heyward LF Bourn Center, and Justin Upton RF. I would go with that one if Braves can’t get Greinke?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
And Yes, I can talk out my butt, blow bubble gum and walk all at the same time
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 12th, 2012
3:05 pm
Willingham would be nice.
Can he pitch?
Frankie
July 12th, 2012
3:05 pm
“Willingham would be nice.”
Mare Willingham? Naw. Let’s get Kate Upton.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
3:06 pm
I don’t hate Uggla. He seems very nice in interviews. He absolutely goes hard.
I just don’t want him at 2b anymore, even if that means Scutaro.
Bourn
Prado
Heyward
Upton
Freeman
McCann
Simmons
Scutaro
unbelievable
July 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
Willingham would be nice.
Can he pitch?
Can he play short?
cricket
July 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
Not a discount, so much as take the Braves seriously.
what does this really mean? only way he takes braves seriously is if they show HIM the money. they win the bidding war, he will stay in ATL. this is not like NBA where FAs pick up their teammates.
Ward
July 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
I would like Braves still to try,and get Greinke, but if Wren can pull off getting Upton too. It would be Play Offs……….Dream the Dream………
ncscoots
July 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
I just don’t want him at 2b anymore, even if that means Scutaro.
I don’t think even Uggla’s ex-wife would make that call, man.
Shaun
July 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
Shaun of course most num,bers would drop, I am simply pointing out to some easily excited folks that he will not hit here like there. It doesn’t matter that anybody’s numbers would drop, what does matter is what he would procuce here as compared to whoever else is considered who would likely not be from ‘zona.
My point is that he would hit the same or better; would provide just as much or more offensive value. It just wouldn’t show up in his basic numbers.
That doesn’t mean I think the Braves should trade for him, especially if it involves Prado and prospects. But the dream of Justin Upton playing for the Braves should be exciting. My point is the reason to tame excitement is not that Upton would be less valuable here than there. The reason to take the excitement is that it would take a lot to get Upton and that trading Prado and prospects for him probably doesn’t help the Braves.
unbelievable
July 12th, 2012
3:11 pm
Why would we move Heyward to LF? He’s a better defender in RF than Upton.
count_schemula
July 12th, 2012
3:11 pm
“what does this really mean? only way he takes braves seriously is if they show HIM the money. they win the bidding war, he will stay in ATL. this is not like NBA where FAs pick up their teammates.”
Winning. Long term winning.
We absolutely will have to show him a 5 year $80M.
Uggla is what 5 year $60M?
And Chipper has picked up his teamates.