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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,084 comments Add your comment
CrαZy
July 10th, 2012
11:47 am
Anyone know when this happened?
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/epic-win-photos-win-youre-out-win.gif
kerryb
July 10th, 2012
11:49 am
Lets try this again
Schmidt Jones
18 years 18 years 3 months
Avg .267 AVG .304
RBI 1595 RBI 1594
HR 548 HR 460
SLG .527 SLG .532
OBP .380 OBP .934
S.O. 1883 S.O. 1379
Show me where Schmidt was better than Chipper.
Gym Nash
July 10th, 2012
11:51 am
Casey, are you out of your mind? Schmidt was a great fielding 3rd baseman. Chipper never has been. There’s a reason he was moved to the outfield a few years ago — his fielding became unbearable. Chipper’s up there in the all-time 3rd base category, but he’s definitely not #1 (or probably 2 or 3).
kerryb
July 10th, 2012
11:52 am
Should have done it like this:
Schmidt
18 years
Avg. 267
RBI 1595
HR 548
SLG .527
OBP .380
Strike outs 2883
Jones
18 year 3 months
AVG .304
RBI 1594
HR 460
SLG .532
OBP .934
Strike outs 1379
RemoW
July 10th, 2012
11:53 am
Nutjob Schmidt faced Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, and Tom Sever. Please explain how Schmidt got to face gassed pitchers. Those 3 guys are as good if not better then anyone pitching today.
Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?batter=schmimi01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=schmimi01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=&orderby=OPS&orderbyb=Name
That is every AB Schmidt had in the bigs and the pitcher he faced. Some solid names on that list.
Brian from SC
July 10th, 2012
11:55 am
Wilson vs. Pastornicky. I don’t know for sure which direction the Braves will go on it, but there is an offense/defense tradeoff. You could set up a platoon of sorts, based on the starting pitcher. Here are the Braves starters, and the percentage of batters faced this season who have hit the ball towards shortstop:
Hudson 9.52%
Delgado 9.12%
Hanson 7.56%
Minor 7.05%
Jurrjens 4.79%
The Braves have two ground ball pitchers and three fly ball pitchers. If you wanted to get the Rev’s stick into a game, do it when Jurrjens, Minor, or Hanson are on the mound.
This is conjecture by me, of course, but I think Sheets would fit in the strikeout/fly ball category as well.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
11:59 am
DOB, thank you for the article and the work. Loved it. Chipper is my active fav-brave. So honored to have watched him play all the way from the minor leagues through his entire major league career. I’m hoping to make it down to Atlanta for a game this year to see him play in person one last time. Can’t believe I got to see a hall of famer play for over 20 years at just about every level of the game.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:01 pm
Wilson vs. Pastornicky. I don’t know for sure which direction the Braves will go on it…
Man, just realized how Simmons injury throws a kink into that defensive number you were watching pre/post Pastornicky. Up until the injury, did you notice any significant change?
Brian from SC
July 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
Batting average given up on ground balls was .274 (league worst) before Simmons, .192 (league best) after Simmons.
Brian from SC
July 10th, 2012
12:03 pm
10Paul, I’ll be keeping track of it still going forward to see if he goes back up (it will) and by how much (hopefully not to .274).
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:05 pm
Great article, DOB. A great read! Sad that we only have one more half season of baseball from Chipper. He’s been a joy to watch all these years and I’m going to miss him.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:09 pm
Number of consecutive 100+ RBI seasons:
Schmidt: 2 (achieved 4 times, 9 total seasons with 100+ RBI)
Chipper: 8 straight years, 9 total seasons with 100+ RBI
Chipper and Schmidt received top 20 MVP vote totals 12 times in their career with Schmidt getting 3 MVP’s to Chipper’s 1. Over those 12 votes, Chipper averaged an 11th place (11.2) while Schmidt averaged a 7th place (6.8).
Gotta wonder how different that would have been had Chipper played in a non-roid era.
Carl Farvman
July 10th, 2012
12:11 pm
Yeah, DOB put together a good ‘homer’ article and playing aroung with cute statistics. Wow,the sports coverage in this town can be so nonsensical. You would never get these kinds of ‘made to order’ pieces in a serious sports city. I’m sorry, this is funny and, yes, very predictable.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:12 pm
.274 (league worst) before Simmons, .192 (league best) after Simmons.
The dude is Pack-Man out there.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:13 pm
Think I’m going to start calling him that. Simmons = Pack-Man. He gobbles up every ball his way and then some.
kerryb
July 10th, 2012
12:13 pm
RemoW
July 10th, 2012
11:53 am
Nutjob Schmidt faced Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, and Tom Sever. Please explain how Schmidt got to face gassed pitchers. Those 3 guys are as good if not better then anyone pitching today.
Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?batter=schmimi01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=schmimi01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=&orderby=OPS&orderbyb=Name
That is every AB Schmidt had in the bigs and the pitcher he faced. Some solid names on that list.
___________________________________________________________________
So I’m the nutjob. Here you go pal. You’re saying pitchers like Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Andy Pettitte, Tom Glavine, Roy Oswalt, and Roger Clemens was not that good? Also, Mike Schmidt batted in an era where a starter stayed in a game most of the time for 8 innings so you got a real good look at him in 3-4 AB’s. Now starters go only about 6 innings and you’re looking at a new pitcher almost every inning after that.
Here’s Chipper’s list”
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?batter=jonesch06#gotresults&batter=jonesch06&min_year_game=1993&max_year_game=2012&post=1&opp_id=&throws=any&opponent_status=&c1criteria=&c1gtlt=eq&c1val=0&c2criteria=&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&orderby=PA&orderby_dir=desc&orderby_second=Name&orderby_dir_second=asc&ajax=1&submitter=1
Still@theKool-aidBAR
July 10th, 2012
12:14 pm
Brett with the Pine Tar was the greatest EXPLOSION at Home plate I have ever seen.
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:14 pm
Except I’ll spell it right from here on out: Pac-man
Brian from SC
July 10th, 2012
12:16 pm
There are only 11 primary third basemen in the HOF. Prior to 1976, there were only three. It’s still a very scarcely represented position in the Hall. Here they are, with year of induction:
Jimmy Collins – 1945
Pie Traynor – 1948
Home Run Baker – 1955
Freddie Lindstrom – 1976
Eddie Mathews – 1978
George Kell – 1983
Brooks Robinson – 1983
Mike Schmidt – 1995
George Brett – 1999
Wade Boggs – 2005
Ron Santo – 2012
CrαZy
July 10th, 2012
12:16 pm
Brian from SC
I’m guessing that Huddy and JJ probably get the highest % of ground balls per game? Can you answer that?
If they want to platoon Wilson and Pastornicky then it seems logical that Wilson plays for the pitcher who gets the highest % of ground balls and Pastornicky plays for the pitcher who gets the lowest % of ground balls and they meet in the middle.
CrαZy
July 10th, 2012
12:18 pm
Brett with the Pine Tar was the greatest EXPLOSION at Home plate I have ever seen.
I could watch that over and over again!!
raleighbravefan
July 10th, 2012
12:18 pm
Mets R Pests – It’s pretty hard for your bunch of pizzants to sweep us in 4 games to start the season, WHEN IT WAS ONLY A 3 GAME SERIES. !!!
TennesseePaul
July 10th, 2012
12:18 pm
There are only 11 primary third basemen in the HOF.
And once Chipper gets in there he’ll be the top ranked in terms of OPS. And right up there with Matthews and Schmidt in terms of OPS+ (141, 143, 147)
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:20 pm
Chipper is tops in my mind and that’s all that matters…
raleighbravefan
July 10th, 2012
12:21 pm
Mets – You’re a MORON. At least if you’re going to TRY to trash talk, you should at least have your facts straight.
You guys had a good first half. It’s time for you to go away now. BYE BYE.
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:22 pm
Gotta give credit to DeMacio for Simmons. One of our two 2nd round selections in 2010. Great find and looks like we have SS locked up for the next six and a half years…..
Brian from SC
July 10th, 2012
12:22 pm
Crazy, ground ball % is another way of saying something similar what I said above, but I decided to take it right on down to the shortstop position itself. Hudson and Delgado get ground balls. Jurrjens is actually a fly ball pitcher, really always has been.
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:25 pm
Braves 16th round pick OF Fernelys Sanchez made his debut for the GCL Braves today. It’s a roster of position players to get excited about, imo – something we didn’t have last year. SS Jose Peraza, OF Conner Lien, OF Fernelys Sanchez, 1B Jackson Laumann, CF Justin Black, C Bryan de la Rosa, C Carlos Sanchez…
1st rounder RHP Lucas Sims and 17 year-old LHP Luis Merejo have looked very good apparently. Could have a nice Rome rotation next year with those two and Danville RHP Mauricio Cabrera.
DJ
July 10th, 2012
12:27 pm
My “Pops” and Dad seen Mike Schmidt play. They never saw Chipper play, I seen them both. I’ll go with Schmidt. Go Braves!!!!
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:28 pm
Justin Upton is the subject of a lot of trade talk, writes Nick Piecoro.
Nick diagnoses the situation perfectly in his piece, I think.
The previous regime believed it was the right thing to do to build its franchise around Upton. I don’t think the current front office feels the same way. If the Arizona Diamondbacks don’t find the right deal now, they will this winter — but I’d still bet on Upton being traded by July 31. There are questions among rival executives about whether Upton is hurt, but the Diamondbacks say Upton is healthy. – Buster Olney
The tricky thing about changing a GM.
CrαZy
July 10th, 2012
12:34 pm
The 2013 HOF class is when Barry Bonds, Roger Clemons, Mike Piazza, Sammy Sosa, Curt Schilling, Craig Biggio and David Wells all get put on the HOF ballot for the 1st time. Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell and Lee Smith were the highest % vote getters from last year that didn’t make it in. It’ll be interesting to see who gets in this year and how all these Roid players influence the voting when Greg Maddux 2014, Tom Glavine 2014, John Smoltz 2015, Chipper Jones 2017 join the ballot.
I hope Bobby doesn’t have to deal with a media circus because of these roid heads when he gets inducted into the HOF. Maybe they’ll put him in next year and someone like Jack Morris or Dale Murphy (yeah I know pipe dream) goes in with him!!
CrαZy
July 10th, 2012
12:36 pm
I “seen” the HR derby last night?
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:40 pm
Eight Futures Game Highlights
By Ben Badler
July 10, 2012
8. Christian Bethancourt Has A Cannon
There are questions about Braves backstop Bethancourt’s bat. As a 20-year-old in the Double-A Southern League, he’s young for his level, but he’s still hitting just .254/.278/.280 in 52 games and has a long way to go with his offensive approach. Yet if Bethancourt can even hit enough to be at least a backup, he has a chance to be a special defender. His plus-plus arm was evident in the second inning when he threw out Singleton trying to steal second.
“Bethancourt’s arm is exceptional,” said the first scout. “(He) is reminiscent of Benito Santiago. That wiry, strong, athletic body that propels absolute lasers. How arrogant he is with his arm, to be able to back pick and dare the runner to try to steal. It would have been fabulous for Billy Hamilton to take off and for Bethancourt to have a chance to throw him out.”
Skokie Dog
July 10th, 2012
12:41 pm
“Jones…has never won a gold glove.” As Sonny Clusters has pointed out previously, a player who loses a ground ball in the lights and who might be spelled in the field by the Henry Grady statue, it’s hardly surprising that Chipper lacks a gold glove. Brooks Robinson, while not one of the great hitters on those Orioles’ teams that he played for, was certainly the defensive standout at that position. Does anyone here remember his play in the World Series against the Reds in the early 1970s?
Efrim
July 10th, 2012
12:43 pm
Mid-Season Organizational Reports:
Andrelton Simmons Shoots To Atlanta In No Time
By Bill Ballew
July 10, 2012
Best Player: Shortstop Andrelton Simmons showed during spring training that his glove was ready for the big leagues. A minor ailment and limited productivity at the plate contributed to his starting the season at Double-A Mississippi, which proved to be the best move the Braves could have made.
Simmons capped a two-month stint in the Southern League with the circuit’s player of the week award in late May. He batted .292/.372/.421 with three homers and nine doubles through 171 at-bats to earn a promotion to Atlanta on June 1—remarkable progress considering the Braves drafted him out of junior college just two years ago. “Everything he does shouts that he’s a star in the making,” big league manager Fredi Gonzalez said. “The kid is fearless, and his ability is at times unbelievable.”
Biggest Leap Forward: Righthander J.R. Graham overpowered the Rookie-level Appalachian League last year after being drafted in the fourth round out of Santa Clara. The Braves believed he might find the going a little bumpier in the high Class A Carolina League, skipping him over low Class A. Instead, the hard-throwing righthander went 8-1, 2.60 in his first 14 starts for Lynchburg and allowed two earned runs or fewer in 11 of those outings.
A two-way player early in his college career, Graham has made rapid improvements since he started focusing solely on pitching. His command has made significant strides since he signed last summer, and he does a good job of keeping his pitches down in the strike zone, which had limited opponents to a .232 average.
Biggest Disappointment: Joey Terdoslavich gets the nod, but his name should include an asterisk. Following an outstanding full-season debut at Lynchburg and an equally impressive stint in the Arizona Fall League last year, the switch-hitter was rushed to Triple-A Gwinnett in hopes of being ready to replace Chipper Jones in 2013.
Terdoslavich struggled on offense, batting .180/.252/.263 in two months at Gwinnett. He also had difficulty moving back to third base after playing first in 2011, committing 22 errors in 50 games at the hot corner. The Braves demoted Terdoslavich to Mississippi in early June, and he showed signs of rebounding by starting out 25-for-76 (.329) with 11 extra-base hits.
WIGWAM WISPS
• Lefthander Sean Gilmartin ran up a 3.66 ERA in his first five starts for Mississippi this season, and in 10 subsequent starts the 2011 first-rounder went 5-3, 3.39 with 53 strikeouts in 61 innings.
• Mississippi catcher Christian Bethancourt missed three weeks in May with a right hamstring strain but returned in time to start for the World team at the Futures Game.
BusterBrave
July 10th, 2012
12:48 pm
I’m with you Jeff R. Pie Traynor was the very best……….
Tomas
July 10th, 2012
12:50 pm
Braves are gonna have some money this offseason, but they don’t have enough to fill all of their needs via free agency.
It’s pretty clear they’re gonna need a top of the rotation starter with Beachy recovering from TJ surgery, a left fielder to replace Chipper’s offensive production, and to resign Michael Bourn who will not be cheap. Then you add the fact that Heyward, Medlen, Venters, Martinez and Hanson will enter they’re arbitration years, and players like Martin Prado, Jair Jurrjens, and Eric O’flaherty will reach their 3rd and final year of arbitration.
It’s not like they have 30 million to spend just because Chipper, Bourn and Lowe are off the books.
They’re gonna have to make a trade if they really want to win it all this year and the next, that is pretty clear. They have a good team, but they need some improvements to really be WS contender.
I know there’s been a lot of speculation about Zack Greinke, Matt Garza, and lesser pitchers like Francisco Liriano and Jason Vargas. I don’t think any of those is the right answer for ATL, but I would like them to deal with the Brewers.
There a two guys that play for Milwaukee that make a ton of sense for the Braves. Yovani Gallardo and Corey Hart.
Yovani Gallardo is under contract until 2014, and Corey Hart is under contract until 2013, both are good affordable deals, Gallardo is making 5.75 million this year, 8 million in 2013, and 11.5 million in 2014, while Hart is making 9.333 million this year, and 10.333 million in 2013.
Gallardo is the type of top of the rotation starter they need, and Corey Hart is an OF/1B, who has a ton of power, specially vs lefties. Now I know what you’re thinking, Hart is gonna bench Marin Prado or Jason Heyward? no the answer is a platoon with 1B Freddy Freeman who has struggled mightily with left handers with 210 AVG and a 615 OPS, while Hart has a 247 AVG vs righties with a 305 OBP(his OPS is 807 though proving his power). Freeman’s finger injury will linger all year long, Chipper as we all know can’t play everyday, and Heyward is gonna need days off’s as well. And it’s not like Corey can play everyday either, but this way he can get his rest get more favorable match-ups, and provide rest for Chipper, Freeman, and Heyward.
Now getting those guys from the Brewers will off course not be cheap, but the fact that Gallardo will be under contract until 2014, and Hart until 2013 it’s justifiable to trade top prospects for those guys.
Something like Jair Jurrjens, (one of)Mike Minor/Randall Delgado/Julio Teheran, (one of)Nick Amhed/Tyler Pastornicky, (one of)Ernesto Mejia/Joey Terdoslavich, and a player to be named later (whoever else they choose(not from this year’s draft).)
5 quality players(some of them MLB ready) for two mlb proven stars
faninva
July 10th, 2012
12:53 pm
As much as i love Chipper, I’ll take Brett. Yep, I’m biased. He’s always been my favorite player.
George
July 10th, 2012
1:00 pm
Carl Farvman
July 10th, 2012
12:11 pm
Yeah, DOB put together a good ‘homer’ article and playing aroung with cute statistics. Wow,the sports coverage in this town can be so nonsensical. You would never get these kinds of ‘made to order’ pieces in a serious sports city. I’m sorry, this is funny and, yes, very predictable
**************
Of course DOD will say good things about CHIPPER. if he said bad things the bloggers including myself would be all over him.
Timmay
July 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
I’ll take Ken Caminiti on steroids over all those guys. LOL. Just kidding.
K Conway
July 10th, 2012
1:03 pm
Chipper is good just like Dale Murphey but neither was good enough to go into the HOF!! Reaqlly …only Atlanta Braves fans loved these two!!
George
July 10th, 2012
1:04 pm
Of course I ment DOB not DOD.
George
July 10th, 2012
1:11 pm
K Conway
July 10th, 2012
1:03 pm
Chipper is good just like Dale Murphey but neither was good enough to go into the HOF!! Reaqlly …only Atlanta Braves fans loved these two!!
**********************************************************************
You are oh so WRONG about CHIPPER, but I agree with you on DALE MURPHY. No .265 lifetime hitter belongs in the HOF as a player.
birddawgbill
July 10th, 2012
1:18 pm
For those arguing Schmidt was a much better fielder the stats say not so much. Schmidt fielding % .955, Jones .954. Not so much better. Chipper was robbed of many gold gloves and ASG due to everyone wanting to believe Rolen was something he wasn’t and then came Wright. We all know in Philly and NY they get more recognition. Now consider Chipper was playing the last few years on balmy knees. And still was just .001 behind Schmidt in fielding. Considering the difference in avg and Chipper will finish with more RBIs. Which is the ultimate goal isn’t it? Driving in runs. Edge Chipper. Now the other side of the coin says what would Schmidt do in the band boxes they play in today. He in my opinion would have over 600 hrs which would probably add .020 to his avg making it a much more respectable .287. Plus like it or not there ate more teams today which means there are pitchers pitching now that wouldn’t have sniffed the majors back then. That probably would put Schmidt over .290. And all this would add many more RBIs to his total. Bottom line Schmidt by the thinnest hair ever. Its just so hard to compare different eras.
Unbiased opinion
July 10th, 2012
1:23 pm
Well Schmidt’s average is .267….he’s there.
Another reason that both Brett and Chipper are better. Schmidt was a power hitter. He was not a pure hitter.
Unbiased opinion
July 10th, 2012
1:23 pm
Chipper has no range. Brett and Schmidt would eat up ground balls. Chipper would be worried that he’d break a nail…
Don
July 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
I’d give Chipper the edge over Brett, behind Schmidt. I’d also say that Chipper is the second best switch hitter ever, too. Only Mantle was better. Chipper is a scary-good hitter who often changed games with a single swing and a pretty good fielder – despite those wobbly knees.
LakeDawg
July 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
I know Chipper is the toast of the town right now and he has had a great career, but he is the 4th best 3rd baseman of all-time. Schmidt, Mathews, Brett, and then Chipper. It doesn’t matter that Mathews played less seasons. He accomplished as much as the others in that time span. Chipper has never meant to his team what the others meant to theirs. This is not a slight on Chipper. He is rightfully being mentioned with the all-time greats.
Bob Horner's Blonde Mullet
July 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
Good one DOB.. preeshiatecha!
Don
July 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
@birddawgbill – Seriously? Did you ever see Schmidt play the field? Chipper’s pretty good. Schmidt was great! He’d make “outs” out of balls that would be “hits” to Chipper.
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
Should be an interesting trade deadline for the Braves. We could go alot of different ways.
George
July 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
Should be an interesting trade deadline for the Braves. We could go alot of different ways
*********************
PASTORNICKY and WILSON for FURCAL. Only kidding STL would have had to lose it completely to do that deal.
Tomas
July 10th, 2012
1:35 pm
Hands down, Chipper had a better career than George Brett. Had more power and OBP.
Career OPS of 934 vs 857, and Chipper played in the middle of the steroid era without taking such substances, and with a huge surge in relievers. So Brett was a good player, and he reach a milestone that Chipper didn’t with over 3000 hits, but Chipper is the better player no doubt
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:39 pm
I agree Tomas, Chipper has a pretty sizable lead in AVG/OPS over Brett. Elite players are guys who OPS over 900.
Tomas
July 10th, 2012
1:40 pm
Yovani Gallardo, and Corey Hart for Jair Jurrjens, Randall Delgado, Nick Amhed, Ernesto Mejia, and Sean Gilmartin.
Fair, worth it?
keeping it real
July 10th, 2012
1:40 pm
Brooks Robinson was the greatest fielding 3rd baseman and right up there with Ozzie Smith as the greatest fielder ever. The runs he saved need to be factored into the equation. I grew up watching Brooks and have had the pleasure of watching Chipper his whole career. They are both great, but I think you are dismissing Brooks a little too easily.
birddawgbill
July 10th, 2012
1:45 pm
Don I did see Schmidt play. He was a great fielder. But I’ve also seen Chipper turn hits into outs. Chipper doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He plays the bunt and swinging bunt as well as anyone I’ve ever seen. That’s about 35 yrs of watching baseball. Yes Schmidt was a little better but no significantly. Peter Gammons and many others have said unfortunately offense effects GGs. Plus it is a popularity contest. If a player plays in NY Philly Boston he will have a greater chance of bein recognized. If you don’t believe it watch how ESPN kisses their tails. My point was comparing eras is near impossible.
Threadkiller
July 10th, 2012
1:46 pm
Thomas..Not for Us..Upton is interesting..AZ is said to be looking for a 3b or pitching in a trade..I say, start with JJ for Upton strait up and see where it goes..Keep in mind, I do not have each playes contract numbers or remaining years ect..
Threadkiller
July 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
Ya’ll forgot the most important career stat for Brett…
Career games played after Hemoroid sugery!
Players today go on the DL for a stiff neck!
Fols
July 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
Seeing Melky bat 2nd in the all-star game is haunting!
When I travelled to Minni to see the Braves a few years ago I watched Melky hit a homerun for us. Later that game Brooks Conrad won it on a suicide squeeze. I partied like we had won the world series.
Time sure flies by! Good to see the milk man delivering!
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
Ryan (VA)
Who is better Brett or Chipper?
David Schoenfield (1:49 PM)
I think I wrote about this last year … can’t remember how I ranked them. I’d probably give Brett the slight edge, but remember that he played a lot of 1B and DH at the end of his career. Chipper has managed to remain at 3B.
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Upton doesn’t make sense for us during the season. But during the offseason a trade for him makes alot of sense.
Biff Pocaroba
July 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Really
Some of the arguments are well founded, but what is the question that is trying to answered?
Best third basemen.
Are we looking at defense only, or is it MVP’s, HR’s, RBI’s, or OBP?
Trying to compare apples to oranges. Different type of players, different time periods.
Mike Schmidt helluva player
George Brett ditto
Larry Wayne Jones ditto
All were/are exceptional
You have any of those three on your team and you have something special.
So to all you idiots bashing Chipper, go put on your pinstripes, your red socks or go beat your dog.
Real braves fans know what we have enjoyed for the past two decades. And his presence will be missed. Go sit at the park in ‘88 watching the Fat Boys and Beach Boys in concert drinking beer when we were 18 and getting $5 from your dad to go have fun.
Omar Moreno #18 still can’t find the dugout!!!
Dennis DeYoung
July 10th, 2012
1:55 pm
Not sure why I wasn’t asked to participate in an after Braves concert in 1988. I would have blown away the Beach Boys….
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
1:55 pm
Jurrjens still has very little value. Most likely will have to pitch well for us the rest of the season and the Braves will try and get something for him in the offseason. Instead of paying him over 7 million in 2013.
For Upton I’d be willing to part with Nick Ahmed, Edward Salcedo, and a Pitcher.
Bob Horner
July 10th, 2012
1:56 pm
Why am I not in the conversation? Did any of those guys Schmidt, Brett, Chipper have a 4 HR game? I don’t think so! Screw you all!
Joey Mele
July 10th, 2012
1:56 pm
One thing that Chipper and Brett have in common that makes them hero’s in my house, they both DESTROYED New York. Chipper obliterated the Mets, Brett demolished the Yankees. The All-Star game has had a tie, why can’t these guys tie for the best 3B ever? And as far as Schmidt as the greatest, nay. Eddie Matthews ranks higher. Schmidt struck out a ton, had a low batting average, but hit for power. So did King Kong Kingman. Schmidt hit 265 of his home runs at hitter friendly Veteran’s Stadium. Chipper has been playing in the neutral Turner Field since 1997. Lets give Chipper his due. I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul that says he’s better than you.
Jerry Royster
July 10th, 2012
1:57 pm
What about me?!?! I played some third base when Horner went down! I was a mainstay on the 1982 team!
Biff Pocaroba
July 10th, 2012
2:00 pm
5-5 when you are 40, can they do that?
I hate fans that hate
Go back to NY, Boston, or wherever you are from. You guys probably voted for Obama and will do it again.
JY would be proud to rename “Renegade” to “Braves” if it was about Chipper
Biff Pocaroba
July 10th, 2012
2:04 pm
Chipper should stop at Hallmark Headquarters in KC and buy some sympathy cards for the lack of intelligence that some of these people show.
If I needed a third basemen in the 80’s it would be Brett, in the 90’s and 2000’s its Jones over anybody else.
Thursday night at RnR in Buckhead there will be a Chipper Jones rally
Mary Jo Mazurek
July 10th, 2012
2:04 pm
I wish the Braves would bring some punk bands for the after game entertainment.
Al Fayek
July 10th, 2012
2:05 pm
Wise man once said, “You can have no meat without cheese”
You can not hhave the Braves without Chipper
coachx
July 10th, 2012
2:07 pm
Is Mike Schmidt really better then Chipper ?
Chipper is 1 RBI away from Scmidt and will surely pass him
Chipper’s career BA .304 to Schmidt’s .267
Chipper’s OBP is .402 comnpared to Schmidt’s .380
Chipper’s SLG is .532 to Schmidt’s .522
Schmidt has 548 HRs to Chipper’s 460 (& counting) (the 1 & only advantage Schmidts has)
Chipper has 536 doubles to Scmidt’s 408
Chipper has 1,586 runs (and counting, should pass 1,600) to Schmidt’s 1,506
Chipper has 2,670 hits (and counting should pas 2,700) to Schmidt’s 2,234
Chipper has 4,662 total bases (and counting should pass 4,700) to Schmidt’s 4,404
ADVANTAGE CHIPPER JONES !!!
Wilda Oakley
July 10th, 2012
2:07 pm
“Isn’t this to big” of an argument to even have.
You throw the ball, you hit the ball, some times it rains.
Enjoy what we have been blessed with and hope for the future of America’s team
VaBravesFan
July 10th, 2012
2:08 pm
Ryan (Indy)
How do you see Atlanta replacing Chipper and Bourn, assuming they can’t resign him?
David Schoenfield (2:08 PM)
Well, losing Chipper’s salary means Braves *could* afford Bourn. They have to decide what to do with McCann as well. (Signed through 2013.) Interesting offseason ahead for the Braves, that’s for sure.
DawgDad
July 10th, 2012
2:08 pm
I categorically REJECT the notion Schmidt should be accepted as the best third baseman of all time. Considering offense and defense, Schmidt and Mathews are about dead-even over their careers statistically. And then there’s John Beckwith.
Bruce Eggs Benedict
July 10th, 2012
2:10 pm
CoachX has all we need to settle it right there again.
If not meet me at the Drive in theatre and we will settle it, my dad should be home by three
Frau Blanner
July 10th, 2012
2:10 pm
Chipper Jones spielt baseball besser als Mike Schmidt.
jim
July 10th, 2012
2:12 pm
Awards are not always the best barometer for comparing players — Batting titles, HR and RBI titles, OPS winner when this winner becomes more recognized, SB leader, etc. are objective awards with a clear winner.(or winners if tied). MVP is more subjective, but if we look at top 3 finishes in the MVP vote more broadly, then the number of top 3 finishes is a good yardstick (and it resolves Braun over Kemp type questions when the 2nd place finisher might have been more deserving. Once a player wins a first Silver Slugger or Golden Glove, he has a leg up in subsequent years. Unless there is compelling reason not to go with the usual winner, he will usually win again (case in point — was Brian McCann really the best hitting catcher statistically last year?) Golden Gloves are even more arbitrary. Unless the player is Brooks Robinson or Ozzie Smith outstanding defensively, the award will go to a good defensive player who is also a good or very good offensive player. In the OF the GG often goes to 3 CFs and rarely the best LF defender. As for All Star game selections, there are enough questionable voting instances and even managerial decisions to make these selections too subjective. (Is Uggla really an all star this year? Should we have 4 closers on the team at the expense of a Johnny Cueto?) Stick with the stats and objective titles in evaluating different players.
Norm Harris
July 10th, 2012
2:12 pm
They all just need to get out there and play it off. Put your pants on boys! Get out there and play ball!
coachx
July 10th, 2012
2:12 pm
Forgot to add………..Schmidt struck out 500 more times then Chipper.
Jeff R
July 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
Schmidt and Mathews are about dead-even over their careers statistically.
Matthews was certainly the greatest Braves’ third baseman, with due regard to Chipper.
Bruce Eggs Benedict
July 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
Next year I would love to see Mc Cann move to first, Flip FF back to his orginal home at third. Prado can stay in left. McCann can still hit has only been average defensively and he is getting older. RESIGN BOURN now or trade him to the Nets with Dwight Howard.
Daves Hot Dogs is still going strong
Dick Rawle
July 10th, 2012
2:17 pm
WHy are we comparing the past, lets focus on fixing now. Need another starter, a SS and some better bench strength. Lets trade Liberty CEO for Arthur Blank or Jerry Jones.
Journey wasn’t the same with Randy Jackson and the Philpino on the Mike neither will the braves be without CJ10
Summer of George
July 10th, 2012
2:22 pm
DOB,…Let’s get down to business. Who will Frank Wren pursue between now and the trading deadline?
Middle relief has sucked for the Braves this year and/or another bat always helps. Can’t argue against another starting pitcher with at least 3 hole or better talent.
Can’t have opponents consistently scoring 6, 7, 8, 9 runs a game and expect to be above .500
jim
July 10th, 2012
2:23 pm
If we take a weighted average between the entire career (where longevity pads career totals except for batting average and OBP) and the 5 best years in a player’s career, we have a truer picture of a player’s overall greatness. Mantle’s numbers except for HRs are all below Chipper’s career totals, but Mantle had a shorter career and hung on two years too long at the end. If we look at Mantle’s 5 best years, they are off the charts compared to the other top switch hitters (or most hitters of any type) That’s why people of my aqe consider him the gold standard when talking about switch hitters no matter what team and player you root for.
Rock On
July 10th, 2012
2:26 pm
Dick Rawle…..Don’t stop believing….hehe
Bring back Steve Perry!
and Van Hagar aint Van Halen
steve
July 10th, 2012
2:27 pm
George Brett is my all-time favorite baseball player. I had posters of him on my wall. I used to stuff a wad of tootsie rolls in my cheek and spit the juice out trying to look like him. I was right handed and tried desperately to convert to a left handed hitter. So, it is hard to for me to admit that Chipper is right up there with George, but he is. It is really hard to say one is better than the other. They both had injury issues late in their careers. Brett probably dealt with more injuries during his prime than Chipper did. I think Brett’s numbers slipped a bit late in his career more than Chipper has. However, when George was in his prime, I don’t think there was a better all-around hitter in the game. All that being said, I think it is a toss up.
TCBnATL
July 10th, 2012
2:28 pm
Way off topic, Dave, but visit the WWI museum there if you get the chance. One of the most impressive and moving museums I’ve ever visited, plus a real experience if, like me, your knowledge of the Great War is somewhat lacking.
Plus, I believe the admission tickets are good for two consecutive days, so you can go for a little while one day and return the next if you still want to explore more. Of course, they also have the Negro League Museum there, but figured that’s already on your list.
And if you want a pretty good burger at a dive joint/shack, try Town Topic.
Tim McCarver
July 10th, 2012
2:29 pm
Joe Morgan is the greatest third baseman ever. Joe Morgan is also the best singer, dancer, chef, writer, and lover. His bedroom eyes make my heart go pitter-patter. One day, I will be Tim McMorgan. Until that day, I will always love you!!!!
talking baseball......sing it!
July 10th, 2012
2:29 pm
Jim, Good points. With that in mind, Mickey Mantle was the 2nd BEST player of all time next to the Babe.
jim
July 10th, 2012
2:33 pm
Low batting averages were not a feature of Schmidt’s ERA. Rod Carew, Wade Boggs, George Brett, and Tony Gwynn were among his contemporaries. The Sixties was an era of dominant pitching where Yaz won a batting title one year hitting just over 300, but by the time Schmidt made his mark the best pitcher of his era was his own team mate.
DawgDad
July 10th, 2012
2:34 pm
“Batting average given up on ground balls was .274 (league worst) before Simmons, .192 (league best) after Simmons.”
Pastornicky was so bad I don’t see how he can even enter into the equation at shortstop beyond being a day-to-day emergency fill-in. If Wren goes that route he’s throwing in the towel.
Having seen Mathews, Robinson, Santo, Brett, Schmidt, Boggs, and Chipper play, ALL of the above were better defensively than Chipper. That’s not to say Chipper has been terrible, he just doesn’t rate with me as a good defensive third baseman over the course of his career. But I do agree he ranks right up there with Mathews, Schmidt, and Brett as the best all-time, overall.
Billy Martin
July 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
Steve, I remember G.Brett being pictured in Playboy hanging out at the first Hooters in Clearwater.
That Hooters chick made the centerfold and brought Hooters it’s fame and fortune.
She dated and married some Philly, forget his name off hand. Think he may have whacked out and died. All star catcher I think.
Ward
July 10th, 2012
2:38 pm
Hello everyone! My top 3rd baseman
1. Schmidt
2.Mathews
3. Brett
4. jones
5. Brooks
6.Buckey Weaver
steve
July 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
Another thing to consider, it is hard to compare players of different eras. You just cannot compare stats. Schmidt and Brett put up their offensive numbers in what is considered being a pitcher’s era – quality pitching and large ballparks. Chipper has an advantage over them in that regard. He has played in a hitter’s era with much smaller ballparks.
Bottom line, it is hard to argue to much one over the other. All 3 are Hall of Famers.
jim
July 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
talking baseball…
Mickey, Willie, and the Duke. When all 3 teams still played in NY during the fifties there was always a passionate argument about which one was best.
Billy Martin
July 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
Jim, there were pitchers as good as S. Carlton on other teams in NL.
Tom Seaver one of my all time faves from that era.
P Rose
July 10th, 2012
2:41 pm
I’m SO looking forward to next season, when we can finally talk about something else besides Chipper — like, you know, the TEAM.
Gil in Mechanicsville
July 10th, 2012
2:43 pm
Simple fact of life, whenever a pole is held to judge the greatest (fill in the blank here) The voters will always choose the (fill in the blank here) they are most familiar with. This is usually (fill in the blank here) of the modern era.
So many differences to consider when judging ball players. Like George Brett said last night, it is very doubtful we will ever see another .400 hitter because of the specialization of pitching in the game.
Let’s just be happy we were able to see one of the best players of our generation in Chipper Jones and be done with it. After all, if Arron and Ruth could not get into the hall by a unanimous vote, it is pretty clear there are always going to be some clueless dolts out there who have a vote.
Brooks Robinson was a pretty average third baseman who had the good fortune of playing at a high level when the glare of the cameras were on him during the world series.
Defensively, even the Braves thought they had a better third baseman in Vinny Castia when the moved Chipper to the outfield for three years.
And lastly, unless you are Ozzie Smith, no one makes it into the Hall of Fame base on defense alone…