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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,472 comments Add your comment
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:21 am
I like C. Ross, if the Sox will trade him…
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:21 am
Lew, I believe that would be called forecasting? When California drops off into the ocean, that Nevada property may actually turn out to be beachfront.
And Bat will be jealous.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:21 am
Hahahahahaha………
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:22 am
nolie – And how much does Chipper’s age drive up the Braves’ average?
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:22 am
Francisco, like just about anyone, has the ability to flash his ability for a few at-bats or games. But I don’t think he has the makeup to be a productive big-league starter.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:23 am
“ability to flash his ability”…how profound of me.
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:23 am
Ease – Then they really weren’t hallucinations and I’m truly a visionary?
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:24 am
nolie, from Rosenthal last week…
In a recent notes column, I mentioned that some in the industry already are speculating on which general managers could be in trouble and including Braves GM Frank Wren on the list.
Take what you want from Ken, but he is about as reliable as most concerning gauging the league.
flange1
July 6th, 2012
9:24 am
Lew,
Just reaching for a joke that wasn’t to be!
I am glad the eye is improving, hopefully the floaters will go away soon as well!
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:25 am
Only time will tell Lew…
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:25 am
Francisco had a good game…. still don’t think he is, nor do I want him to be Chipper’s replacement.
hahahaha
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:26 am
way up, as does Wilson and Heinke. counting the main starting position players and starting pitchers, we might have the most real young players in those positions. Those three old f@rts will all likely be gone next season too, which along with almost nothing in the high minors makes the “rebuild from scratch” folks really out of touch with reality
OTP
July 6th, 2012
9:26 am
Can we trade Uggla and get Infante back?
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:27 am
I seriously doubt that Wren has ever been on the “hot seat” except in the minds of some crazed bloggers
Definitely not on the hot seat right now. That’s absurd. He misses the playoffs this year and next….then we’ll see. But so much could happen between then and now, it’s sort of tough to speculate. The black plague could strike the team next year and I don’t think that is fair to Frank.
flange1
July 6th, 2012
9:27 am
At the games I have been too, Francisco looks incredible in batting practice hitting balls all over the field and into the stands.
timthebrave
July 6th, 2012
9:28 am
Drive by Truckers coming back to Athens Georgia Theatre in August I think. I already got my tickets! Nice win by the Braves. Good to see Mccann doing something. Now if Uggla will start hitting again. It looks like Uggla is guessing instead of just seeing the pitch and hitting it. Go Braves!
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:28 am
I consider the core of the team the following for position players: McCann, Uggla, Prado, Heyward, Freeman, and Simmons.
Hudson, Hanson, Beachy, Kimbrel for pitchers.
Wish I could count Venters, Delgado, Teheran, etc., but not right now sadly.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:29 am
Can we trade Uggla and get Infante back?
NO
At the games I have been too, Francisco looks incredible in batting practice hitting balls all over the field and into the stands.
BP isn’t the same as real games though…. look at Bethancourt in AA…
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:30 am
I trust Ken Rosenthal and Buster Olney more than most. And I actually think Rosenthal is the best in the business.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:30 am
best number of wins per buck , an extremely young team which has been designed to have much payroll gone next season on top of a complete turnover of a terrible pitching staff… I just do not buy that Ease.
Duke
July 6th, 2012
9:30 am
Lew – He damn sure looked good last night. Those were some tremendous at bats. Defense is a question mark, but given the opportunity for 55 AB’s, I would think he could hit 25 HR’s and possibly more. Would people be happy with 27 HR’s and a .250 AVG? Because I don’t think you even come close to getting that from Chase Headley, the guy a lot of people on here are asking for. I’m not a big fan of his.
Duke
July 6th, 2012
9:30 am
Excuse me, not 55 AB’s. I meant 500 AB’s
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:31 am
BP isn’t the same as real games though
Oh.
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:31 am
Dan Uggla as a Brave: .231/.326/.434 – 1,016 plate appearances.
timthebrave
July 6th, 2012
9:31 am
DBT coming Aug 23 and 24th
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:32 am
my two faves too efrim, but they are still often off the mark.
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:32 am
Brian – I’d say it depends entirely on what you feel production is. He’s never going to be a good OBP batter, but 6 HR with 18RBI in only 102 AB is producing.
I realize there’s only a small sample size, but he does hit pretty well against RHP and with RISP (and with 2 out).
KInd of early for the predictions of doom and failure with Juan, IMO. He might not get his chance at playing time in Atlanta, but I’d be willing to bet that if he played regularly, he’d hit 20-25 HR and rive in 75-80 and never walk in the process.
Anyway, I’d hardly condemn him like many here have or declare he has no chance at a decent MLB career quite yet.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:34 am
It’s not his batting average that most object to, it’s the number of outs he makes. His OBP is pretty terrible. I do not trust that it would rise all that much just not my kinda hitter at all.
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:34 am
Still, it’s important to view the Braves in context.
This reaks of folks phoning in to Rosenthal that he was off-base. Or at least, telling him that whoever speculated that is crazy.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:35 am
Before/After Simmons
Andrelton Simmons made his debut on June 2nd. Here’s a look at some of the Braves’ “pitching” stats before and after his call-up.
ERA
4.24 before
3.54 after
(17% reduction)
K/IP
0.84 before
0.88 after
(5% increase)
BB/IP
0.37 before
0.36 after
(3% reduction)
HR/IP
0.11 before
0.13 after
(18% increase)
H/IP
0.99 before
0.87 after
(12% reduction in hit rate)
Singles/IP
0.70 before
0.54 after
(23% reduction)
Batting average given up on ground balls
.274 before (worst in the NL)
.191 after (best in the NL)
The Braves’ “pitching” has gotten better if you look at ERA. But the strikeouts, walks, and home runs given up don’t seem to be the cause. It’s all about more batted balls being converted to outs. And a huge amount of that credit goes to the young shortstop, who was perhaps the best defensive shortstop in baseball the moment he stepped onto the field.
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
9:35 am
Braves record against lefties, is it good? Francisco batting from the left side would make this team really susceptable against southpaws. Unknown of who is playing centerfield and could be another lefty, not crazy about being so one sided offensively.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:36 am
you won’t get the homers from Headley but he will make a ton of fewer outs. I really don’t give a hoot about the homers, they do not correlate as highly as OBP to runs scored
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:36 am
Flange – My experience was long ago and far, far away from today. You went in exactly the direction I figured you would – and should have.
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:37 am
It’s hard to be a baseball writer nowadays. DOB knows it. Sports writers overall, I guess. But stats are so powerful in baseball – much more than in context dependent sports like B-Ball, Football and Hockey.
Baseball? You and you alone in the box – individual achievement. Okay, I sound like Robert Deniro in The Untouchables. Great scene, by the way. Hits the guy with a bat, everyone at the table in shock. Good stuff.
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:38 am
nolie – Yeah, yeah, we all realize the obsession with OBP. Still and all, there’s production and then there’s production and not all players will ever conform to what some think they all should be. We all have different talents and bring different skills to the table.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:39 am
Juan gets 550 AB he might have a .235/.260/.450 line… The guy needs to get more disciplined with his strike zone, his OBP sucks. Don’t like the swing either, but it works for him when he does hit the ball…..
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:40 am
I’m still hoping they keep Delgado and Teheran and trade Minor. I’d love to see a 4/5 of Delgado and Teheran next year with Hudson, Hanson and a pitcher acquired this deadline or during the offseason.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:40 am
true, but why settle for what is less effective in re team runs scored? there should be no need to put up with such a huge question mark next year with the money coming off
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:40 am
And I’m not advocating for Francisco to remain a Brave next year – just saying that he might have a fairly effective ML career -somewhere. Not all players will put up .320, .385, .450 lines in their careers. Doesn’t mean they have no place in MLB.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:41 am
Francisco would have to hit pretty well just to make up for the runs he costs defensively, much less add total value to the team.
Murph
July 6th, 2012
9:41 am
Brian, you need to compose an email with those stats in it and send it to some of the national writers… word needs to get out about how incredibly awesome our new SS really is.
I know Harper has the hype, but I do think that if he and Simmons both keep going the way they’re going until the end of the season that Simmons will garner quite a few ROY votes. I’d love to see the kid win it.
Heyward finishing 2nd, Kimbrel winning with Freeman finishing 2nd, and now Simmons… I wonder who it will be next season? Teheran is probably the most legitimate contender… but there’s always Gattis (should he ever recover from his arm injury).
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:42 am
No thanks on Juan at 3rd. That’s Prado’s spot, imo. Much easier to find a corner outfielder than a 3rd baseman. I don’t care how long it’s been since we have had one. Finding a 3rd baseman is even harder.
Bayou Brave
July 6th, 2012
9:42 am
Range Factor. Total number of outs participated in, divide putouts and assists by number of innings or games played at a position ((PO+A)/INN*9)
Player ________ Innings ___Range Factor
A. Simmons ___ 267.0 ____ 4.93
T. Pastornicky _ 326.2 ____ 3.02
J. Wilson _____ 135.2 ____ 2.56
That is significant! Simmons averages 5 outs per game to Pastornicky’s 3. Aproximately a 63% increase.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:44 am
Francisco might be a poor man’s Adam Dunn…. Adam at least gets walks and raises that OBP. He never had an OBP under .350 until last year…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01.shtml
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:44 am
I’m not sure I want a trade at all. I am just not sold that there are any guarantees of better results with any of those guys except perhaps Greinke and he looked pretty poor the other night against a team that we would want him to beat, and he will cost a lot prolly. Minor, perhaps our worst guy, outpitched Garza and Demptster is not really a better pitcher than Garza and has some health issues twice. I don’t trust Liriano at all, might be a lightning in a bottle dude and might be a fizzly washout.
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:45 am
Minor for Broxton?
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:45 am
Efrim – I agree completely on Martin moving to third next year. If anyone had doubts, they should have been erased after watching his defensive clinic while Chipper was out of the lineup.
Just saying I;’d like to see JFrancisco find a team that would give him some playing time and see what he does. Just never understood the vitriol and hatred shwn towards him. He will likely never be a good pinch hitter, but maybe with some playing time he’d be better than many think. It won’t be as a Brave, though unless Wren hallucinates this winter.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:46 am
According to baseball-reference’s WAR, Simmons has been more valuable (2.3 WAR) in 30 games than any Nats player, including Harper (1.7 WAR), has been for the whole season.
Now, that’s a little extreme and will probably calm down the more he plays, but it goes to show you just how mind-numbingly good his defense has been. And he’s been swinging the bat to boot.
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:46 am
I’m very interested to see how Wren handles contract extensions. He hasn’t really had to do many within his tenure, right? I can only think of Tim Hudson signing, but he was a free agent, I thought.
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
9:47 am
We’ll the Phillies pulled another brick last night and didn’t have a very good series in NY.
I’ll pull a Lew here, Braves win the series you can put the Phils away. Howard and Doc back won’t be enough for them to overcome being 9 back or so. Too many good teams ahead.
Let’s see if our heroes can string a couple of good games together and put this team away.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:49 am
but Martin has a high defensive rating in LF too this year. he can play well at either spot. I think it should depend on who is the best pickup for them, and you really don’t know what might turn up in a trade. I like him a bit better at third, but it’s no big deal either way IMO
Bayou Brave
July 6th, 2012
9:49 am
Thanks for the pitching stat splits Brian from SC.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:50 am
here come the Phils!!!!
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:50 am
Frankie – I was listening to XM Home Plate yesterday afternoon – they aired a Chipper interview and talked a lot about the Bravea after Chipper was finished. They clai the Braves are one of their favorites to win the division or make the playoffs and that the Phillies are – in their words – toast.
It ain’t just me.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:50 am
Francisco is not close to Adam Dunn. Very, very different. Dunn makes his living drawing walks and hitting homers. Juan does not draw walks. Francisco profiles more closely to someone like Daryle Ward. Adam Lind is a good current comparison.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:50 am
I’m not sure I want a trade at all. I am just not sold that there are any guarantees of better results with any of those guys except perhaps Greinke
Agree. I don’t know if a trade puts us enough over the edge. I would like Greinke if we can re-sign at a good price, but I can’t see us spending on a pitcher.
No thanks on Juan at 3rd. That’s Prado’s spot, imo.
Co-sign.
Fancisco would have to hit pretty well just to make up for the runs he costs defensively, much less add total value to the team.
Agree with this. Francisco doesn’t have as much range as Prado, IMO… and if he’s not hitting .275/.350, well…..
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:51 am
Wren will take it right up to the deadline, I think. 20 games left until 4pm, EST July 31st. We’ll have 60 games to go after that.
Duke
July 6th, 2012
9:51 am
I’m not saying that Francisco would be my first choice, nor would he be in my top 3 choices. I’m simply saying that he could be an adequate replacement so that we could focus on signing Bourn and perhaps a front line starter.
Lew
July 6th, 2012
9:52 am
nolie – Yep, Martin did become a good LFer – something many doubted when he was moved there. He has a good arm, too.
TennesseePaul
July 6th, 2012
9:53 am
And I actually think Rosenthal is the best in the business.
He’s too short to be any good, right scoots?
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:53 am
I think we win 2 outta 3 in Philly and finish up 45-40 at the break.
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
9:54 am
I feel a lot better winning the series against these guys before I write them off. I think they are going to be sellers soon, just a matter of time. Pitching matchups favor the Braves for sure but that hasn’t worked out very well in the past. We use to beat up on these guys in the first half of the season, good time to get back to that norm.
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:54 am
decent article on just how good the Braves outfield is in case anybody missed it
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/26482/do-braves-have-all-time-great-outfield
Ease
July 6th, 2012
9:54 am
Feels like forever since we had a huge…
Statement Series!
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:55 am
I’d rather Martin at 3rd. But I guess it’s not that big of a deal. Either way, an extension is a must for him – more than any other player on the roster. It just makes sense and it isn’t going ot cost the Braves a kidney.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:55 am
Francisco is not close to Adam Dunn. Very, very different. Dunn makes his living drawing walks and hitting homers.
Sorry…. Adam Dunn was the closest guy I could think of… and I showed that Dunn takes walks to raise OBP (sorry Lew, it does matter)…
Never heard of Ward
Lind is a good call though. He did hit .305 and take 58 walks one year though… 
Jeff R
July 6th, 2012
9:56 am
Weirdly, this blog wasn’t posted at my AJC Braves’ page until minutes ago. The last DOB blog was still listed as current. I sent a note to AJC, so I guess they fixed it.
Thanks for the heads up, Lew.
Brian from SC
July 6th, 2012
9:56 am
Ward actually played a little bit with the Braves. Great batting practice power, but very little control of the strike zone. He was never a regular.
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:56 am
The Phillies are 37-47 and would have to go 53-25 the rest of the way to win 90 games.
That is all.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
9:57 am
I’m not saying that Francisco would be my first choice, nor would he be in my top 3 choices. I’m simply saying that he could be an adequate replacement so that we could focus on signing Bourn and perhaps a front line starter.
Well, then…. I don’t want Greinke if it means we’ve got to play Francisco…. (sarcasm)
Efrim
July 6th, 2012
9:57 am
47-33 for the Braves to get to 90 wins….
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
9:58 am
Good to see J Hey starting to have better swings against the lefthanders. That will go a long way in his continued development.
timthebrave
July 6th, 2012
9:58 am
Brian from SC….Good stuff. Simmons is fun to watch…If you watch him when the ball is pitched he even starts to shift a little based on where the pitch is supposed to go….A true pro at fielding and has been hitting as well
nolie
July 6th, 2012
9:58 am
I am less worried about the Phils winning the division than I am about them helping keep the Braves from winning it
TennesseePaul
July 6th, 2012
9:58 am
I’m still hoping they keep Delgado and Teheran and trade Minor….
You know, they could trade Jurrjens. Even in your hopes and dreams you don’t include him in the future. In the three games he’s had since his return batters are hitting .250/.299/.333/.632 off of him. That’s a big improvement from his first four starts of .411/.482/.685/1.167
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
9:59 am
“47-33 for the Braves to get to 90 wins”
Doable with a couple of additions. Very unlikely currently as constructed.
Duke
July 6th, 2012
9:59 am
nolie – actually read that article this morning when I got to work. Pretty good stuff. Pretty lofty comparisons.
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
10:00 am
Winning the division? Phils have absolutely no shot of winning the division. WC would be the way but yes, they could be a thorn in the Braves side still. 15 games left with these jokers.
TennesseePaul
July 6th, 2012
10:01 am
TheOnlyBravesFan: Never heard of Ward
He was an Atlanta Brave in 2006.
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
10:01 am
Anybody know when Jurrjens comes up for free agency?
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
10:02 am
TennPaul: I saw that, but I was 11 at the time…. didn’t know the “lesser” players on the team back then
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 6th, 2012
10:03 am
Frankie: He’s due for FA after the 2013 season
nolie
July 6th, 2012
10:03 am
2014
Lew
July 6th, 2012
10:03 am
Extremely small sample size and way to early to call it a trend, but in 2011 (and likely the several previous years) the Phillies drew well over 44,000 fans in EVERY game – most in the 45,000+ range.
Now they’re still leading MLB in attendance this year, but there have already been seven games where they didn’t pull in 44, 000. If they drop totally out of the picture, it will be interesting to see if there is a much more serious drop in their attendance.
Wish the Braves could “drop” to that level of attendance.
jeffrey d
July 6th, 2012
10:04 am
2020
nolie
July 6th, 2012
10:05 am
is that hindsight, Jeffrey?
Murph
July 6th, 2012
10:07 am
We got totally spoiled by our bullpen last season… I’m shocked every time I look at the box score and see our relievers with their 4.50+ ERAs.
I’d rather see Wren make a deal for a proven setup guy and bench bat than a guy like Greinke.
I wonder what it would take to get one of Kansas City’s relievers (Collins, Herrera, or Mijares) plus an outfield bat…
Would anyone part with Teheran and another top prospect for a guy like Myers? He could come in and play LF or even CF next season.
Bayou Brave
July 6th, 2012
10:07 am
This might cause some heads to explode, but here is an exerpt from Ken Rosenthal’s latest article…
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Boston-Red-Sox-Ben-Cherington-Trade-Deadline-Matt-Garza-New-York-Yankees-070512
THE BRAVES: A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE
In a recent notes column, I mentioned that some in the industry already are speculating on which general managers could be in trouble and including Braves GM Frank Wren on the list.
Their rationale was that Braves ownership, after showing restraint when the team collapsed last September, might be more inclined to make changes if this season also ends in disappointment.
Still, it’s important to view the Braves in context.
Under Wren, the Braves won more games while spending less money from 2009 to ’11 than all but one team — the Rays. The Braves averaged 89 wins and payrolls of $89 million during that period; the Rays averaged 92 wins and payrolls of $59 million.
Something else to consider: As of Thursday, the Braves also had the fifth-youngest roster in the majors, with an average age of 27.5. Only the Nationals, Athletics, Astros and Royals were lower.
The Braves, who visit the Phillies this weekend (Saturday, MLB on FOX, 7:15 p.m. ET), recently lost their best pitcher, right-hander Brandon Beachy, to season-ending Tommy John surgery. They entered Friday six games behind the Nationals in the NL East and 1½ games back in the wild-card race.
Ease
July 6th, 2012
10:07 am
Never heard of Ward
He usually posts in the wee hours of the morning…Guess he could be hard to miss…
Jeff R
July 6th, 2012
10:08 am
47-33 for the Braves to get to 90 wins….
Not at all out of the question – with adjustments.
Ease
July 6th, 2012
10:09 am
but here is an exerpt from Ken Rosenthal’s latest article…
Really? Thanks.
monty
July 6th, 2012
10:09 am
Everybody and their little brother have kicked the Phillie’s…uhm….”you know what” this season. Time for the Braves to get the monkey off their back while they have a chance. These are not the same Phillies, as many on here keep preaching.
jeffrey d
July 6th, 2012
10:11 am
He usually posts in the wee hours of the morning…Guess he could be hard to miss…
Yeah but he chunks all of his posts together making them less hard to miss
Jeff R
July 6th, 2012
10:12 am
I’d rather see Wren make a deal for a proven setup guy and bench bat than a guy like Greinke.
The Braves need more consistency out of the rotation, though. Perhaps Jurrjens and Sheets will give the Braves that. Perhaps.
As to a set up guy, I wouldn’t discount Medlen. He’s hit a rough patch but I think he’s got the stuff to set up effectively.
The bench… couldn’t hurt to make improvements there.
monty
July 6th, 2012
10:12 am
“47-33 for the Braves to get to 90 wins….
Not at all out of the question – with adjustments.”
Not if we lose 2 out of 3 to the Phils and the Nats the rest of the season.
Duke
July 6th, 2012
10:13 am
Ken Rosenthal and his bow ties……
jeffrey d
July 6th, 2012
10:14 am
Aren’t his bow ties for charity?
Duke
July 6th, 2012
10:16 am
They are indeed
Venice Jim
July 6th, 2012
10:17 am
Tom Boswell’s take on the Nats and Strasburg innings limit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/nationals-should-take-no-chances-with-stephen-strasburgs-innings-limit/2012/07/05/gJQAbS6TQW_story.html?hpid=z4
Frankie
July 6th, 2012
10:18 am
Jurrjens a free agent after next season. Hmmm. Why not trade to the Cubs for Dempster? Braves free up more cash in off season to sign somebody like Kyle Lohse and the Cubs take a gamble that Jurrjens can help them for 1 1/2 years. Dempster gives you a shot this season without giving up any young talent.