Chipper’s 5-for-5 night moves 40-year-old up career lists

Tuesday was a very big day and night for newly minted All-Star Chipper Jones, who went 5-for-5 with four RBIs in the Braves' win.

Tuesday was a very big day and night for newly minted All-Star Chipper Jones, who went 5-for-5 with four RBIs in the Braves' win.

After the dust had settled late Tuesday night, after the emotions had stopped swirling and the many memorable moments of one of Chipper Jones’ greatest late-career performances had settled in for all of those who watched, there were two facts I still found hard to fathom:

1. Jordan Schafer had a five-hit game in Atlanta before Chipper Jones ever did;

2. Rabbit Maranville, the only previous player in franchise history to have a 10-game hitting streak after his 40th birthday, was listed as 5 feet 5 and 155 pounds, or about one foot and 80 pounds smaller than Chipper.

“Yeah, but my last hit was a cheap one,” Schafer replied to my text today, after I asked him if he was aware that he had a five-hit game in Atlanta before Chipper, who pulled off the feat for the first time Tuesday. (The Braves icon’s two previous five-hit games were on the road.)

Schafer went 5-for-6 with five singles against the Mets at Turner Field on June 16, 2011. His fifth was an infield hit misplayed by Lucas Duda.

Before Chipper did it Tuesday, Schafer was the last Brave to have a five-hit game. He was traded to Houston 15 days later with three minor leaguers in exchange for Michael Bourn and cash. On Tuesday, Bourn’s three-run triple started the Braves’ comeback in what became a 10-3 rout of a win against the Cubs.

Bourn is going to make a whole lot of cash as a free agent, I commented to Schafer. “Yes, he’s really good,” he replied.

But anyway, last night was mostly about Chipper and his 5-for-5, four-RBI game at age 40, and most of this blog will also be about the future Hall of Famer.

Hours after being added to the National League All-Star team, he came through with a game that, at least temporarily, silenced all but his most diehard detractors. He also went 5-for-5 in each of his previous five-hit games, getting two doubles and no RBIs in the ’02 game at Houston and a double, a homer and one RBI in the ’01 game at Arizona.

“It’s happened to me three times in 19 years, so they’re pretty special when they come along,” said Jones, who got two standing ovations and a curtain call Tuesday night. “I just feel fortunate that I’m swinging the bat really good right now when the team needs it.”

Statistically speaking, last night was the best of his five-hit games, and that’s not even taking into account that he’s a decade older than he was the last time he did it.

The last player to have a five-hit game after his 40th birthday was Craig Biggio in 2007, and before that you had to go back to Hall of Famer Paul Molitor in ‘98.

It was the retired Biggio who presented him with a Stetson cowboy hat in a pregame ceremony at home earlier this season before a game in Houston, where the Astros paid tribute to Chipper in his final series there, as other teams have done this season in the final scheduled visit for the third baseman who’s announced he’ll retire after the season.

With every hit and RBI now, Chipper seems to move up a notch on one career list or another, and Tuesday he did some more moving on up.

His four-RBI game left him just two RBIs behind Hall of Famer George Brett as the career leader for players whose primary position was third base. Talk about being in good company, here’s how the top three currently stand on that list: Brett (1,596 RBIs), Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt (1,595), Jones (1,594).

Chipper raised his hits total to 2,666 to move past Max Carey for seventh on the career list for switch-hitters. He’s 17 hits behind No. 6 George Davis and 48 behind No. 5 Roberto Alomar.

With 1,034 extra-base hits, Chipper is only seven from tying Pete Rose (1,041) for second place on that switch-hitter list.

• Streaking at 40: So Chipper wasted no time extending his hitting streak to 10 games last night, which doubled the number of players who’ve had a double-digit hit streak at that age in the long history of the franchise under its various names and cities. Just Chipper and Hall of Famer Rabbit Maranville.

Maranville did it with the Boston Braves in 1933 at age 41. He was a second baseman/shortstop who finished 12th in MVP balloting at age 41 despite hitting .218 with a .539 OPS in 533 plate appearances. Yeah, it was a slightly different game then.

Chipper is 16-for-37 (.432) during his 10-game hitting streak, with seven doubles, a homer, a .512 OBP and .703 slugging in that stretch.

“I’ve felt it coming on for a while,” he said. “I don’t often say that the swing’s right on par, but I felt it coming and I knew that I was going to start getting some hits because I was centering balls. I was centering eight or nine balls out of 10 in batting practice and it was starting to carry over into the game. Tonight was just one of those dream games. I’d be hard-pressed to find another game where I played better.”

Injuries and the team’s inconsistent performance have detracted from what’s been an otherwise solid farewell season for Jones. When he’s been in lineup, he’s given home fans their money’s worth and plenty of memorable moments: In 25 home games, Chipper’s hit .322 with three homers, 18 RBIs and a .400 OBP and a .494 slugging percentage.

In 17 home games since the beginning of May, he’s hit .381 (24-for-63) with two homers, a .458 OBP and .556 slugging.

Chipper got a standing ovation and high-fives from teammates after coming off the field in the eighth inning Tueday. (Curtis Compton/AJC photo)

Chipper got a standing ovation and high-fives from teammates after coming off the field in the eighth inning Tueday. (Curtis Compton/AJC photo)

Oh, and against the Cubs since the beginning of the 2009 season, Chipper has hit .397 (25-for-63) in 18 games with eight doubles, three homers, 15 RBIs, only six strikeouts and a 1.096 OPS. Cubs manager Dale Sveum commented after Tuesday’s game that Chipper’s swing is not ready for retirement and that he should keep playing as a DH.

How much have injuries, and specifically his surgically scarred knees, affected Jones this season? Well, consider this stat: In 37 night games, he’s hit .343 (48-for-140) with eight doubles, five homers, 28 RBIs, .404 OBP and .507 slugging (.911 OPS).

In nine creaky day games, he’s hit .130 (3-for-23) with one homer, five RBIs, .310 OBP and .348 slugging. Takes a while to get those old joints – including what’s left of the cartilage — warmed up and firing.

By the way, with runners in scoring position, Chipper (.300) and Bourn (.299) lead the Braves.

• Bourn and Prado: It says something for the season that Bourn has had that lately it hasn’t even felt like he’s been hot, at least not like he was for long stretches earlier in the season. And yet, in his past 10 games, Bourn has hit .282 with 10 RBIs, five steals, nine runs, three sac flies and an .816 OPS.

Completely (and understandably) overshadowed by Chipper’s 10-game streak and five-hit game was the fact that Prado also extended his hitting streak to nine games. In his past 12 games, Prado has hit .395 (17-for-43) with six extra-base hits, eight RBIs, seven walks and a .453 OBP.

And speaking of hitting at home, Prado’s .342 home average ranks seventh in the NL. In 39 home games he has 15 extra-base hits, 17 RBIs, a .395 OBP and .467 slugging percentage.

BRAVES LINEUP

  1. Bourn CF
  2. Prado LF
  3. Heyward RF
  4. Chipper 3B
  5. Freeman 1B
  6. Uggla 2B
  7. Ross C
  8. Simmons SS
  9. Delgado P

• Uggla’s power drought: He’s centered some balls lately and hit some hard liners foul or on the ground down the lines, but Dan Uggla has now gone 20 games without a homer. The All-Star second baseman has hit .119 (8-for-67) with two doubles, two RBIs, 12 walks, 26 strikeouts and a .280 OBP and .149 slugging percentage (.429 OPS) during that stretch.

He has more hit-by-pitches (3) than extra-base hits in that 20-game period, and the Braves went 8-12 in those games.

Tonight’s matchup: It’s Braves nemesis Paul Maholm vs. Randall Delgado. And I should qualify “nemesis,” because while Maholm has exceptional numbers against the Braves, they haven’t translated to wins for the lefty. I mean, against the Braves he’s taken tough luck and lack of run support to new levels.

Just think about these stats: Maholm is 2-1 with a 1.34 ERA in seven starts against the Braves, less than half his next-best ERA against any team. He has no decisions in four starts at Turner Field despite a 1.73 ERA.

His teams have scored two or fewer runs while he’s been in every start vs. the Braves, including one run in five of those games.

He’s even been more dominant against them recently, going 2-0 with a 0.79 ERA in his past five starts against the Braves since the beginning of the 2009 season. In three of those games he pitched seven innings and allowed no earned runs and four or fewer hits. In four of those five starts, his teams scored one run while he was in the game.

He pitched seven scoreless innings of three-hit ball against them in May 9 win at Wrigley Field. In nine starts since then he’s gone 1-4 with a 5.36 ERA and .299 opponents’ average.

Against Maholm, Prado is 6-for-14, David Ross is 8-for-26 (.308) with two homers, and Uggla is 7-for-24 (.292) with two homers. Bourn, however, is 7-for-32 (.219) with two strikeouts.

Delgado is 2-5 with a 5.26 ERA in his past eight starts, and lasted 5-1/3 innings or fewer in six of the eight. The Braves have scored two or fewer runs while he was in seven of those eight games, including no runs while he was in three of his past four.

For those looking for good news: Delgado is 1-3 with a 2.92 ERA in his past six home starts, including two when he went went eight innings and allowed only two runs. Braves scored no runs while he was in four of those six games.

In his only start against the Cubs, he allowed three hits and one run in 5-1/3 innings for no decision in a May 8 win at Wrigley.

And one more thing, Maholm is just 1-4 with a 5.36 ERA and .299 opponents’ average in his past nine starts, a slump that began two games after his gem against the Braves in May.

• Let’s close with “Heavy Metal” off the White Rabbits’ recent album Milk Famous. Not real sure on the lyrics, but below are about as much as anyone’s been able to make out. You can hear the song by clicking here.

white_rabbits_join_radioheads_label_schedule_many_444x309

“HEAVY METAL” by White Rabbits

Say you like
Calm down that politely asking you moon
your side
finger it’s trapped round you
Hhm darling
Just tell what you need
I say I don’t care if you do
You can fall fighting you
Darling don’t know how

So come alone
Come alone there’s no heart passing through and now
I don’t like collect who’s collecting you
Well I know
It’s coming after me
Where’s surrounded by telling you
You’re looking for a
Darling I don’t know how
You and thoughts I’m waiting in the..and I don’t know how
YouI’m waiting around and don’t know how

Darling I don’t know how
You and thoughts I’m waiting in the and I don’t know how
You still believe…
I’m waiting around and don’t know how

You still believe…
I’m waiting around and don’t know how

– by David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog

2,013 comments Add your comment

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
2:57 pm

July 4th – first?

Trey

July 4th, 2012
2:58 pm

Good article, DOB.

TheOnlyBravesFan

July 4th, 2012
2:59 pm

Jimmy

July 4th, 2012
3:00 pm

Thanks DOB. Moving up he his.

Trey – Yeah, five years from now, the Astros will have a ceremony as they raise their 4th place banner.

Jimmy

July 4th, 2012
3:00 pm

That was my 4th place banner.

Few_DaProud_DaBraves

July 4th, 2012
3:01 pm

jeffrey d

July 4th, 2012
3:03 pm

Thanks for the blog, DOB

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
3:06 pm

I expect him to leave for the money. I also expect McCann to do the same. The players who don’t leave for money, like Chipper, are a level above all the others.

Nice whack at Heap, Jimmy.

Chipper may have taken less money, reworked a contract, whatever, but the Braves never let a contract expire either, that I’m aware of. They gave him a 4 year deal after his first full season. Then extend, and extend and extend……………. Chipper did very well and so did the Braves……….. Two way street

Trey

July 4th, 2012
3:07 pm

Jimmy, I wouldn’t be surprised. Probably around the same time the NL pitchers can’t even bat anymore, as the newer generations come up and folks are scared they will break a nail batting.

Sopheee

July 4th, 2012
3:07 pm

Thanks DOB!

Loved seeing Chipper having fun out there yesterday. He had me feeling like I was a kid again.

Braveone

July 4th, 2012
3:08 pm

From the previous blog which had 1,724 comments, TheOnlyBravesFan led the way with 156 posts. There were 198 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:

Rank Poster Frequency

1 TheOnlyBravesFan 156
2 brian 90
3 NickB 57
4 Efrim 50
5 nolie 47
6 Tomahawk Mafia 45
7 ChattTownBrian 40
8 Lew 37
9 Mark 37
10 Brava 35
11 jeffrey d 34
12 DS1 33
13 Venice Jim 33
14 cabravesfan 33
15 McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô: 29
16 tiger297 29
17 The A Bomb 28
18 BFChris27 27
19 Capt.Mudd 26
20 Jeff R 26
21 VaBravesFan 25
22 keylargo 24
23 Duke 23
24 Sopheee 23
25 Frankie Wren 22

Peter Y

July 4th, 2012
3:09 pm

Saw an article on MLB.com about Mets pitchers riding a four game hitting streak and it was talking about their starters and how they take BP 4-5 times per week. Anyone know if Braves pitchers take BP? I remember the rotations of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz being very good at wielding the bat in the past. They always had a friendly competition going about it. Most of the time, the Braves rotation of present look lost and flailing at the plate these days. It’s almost as if they’ve never swung a bat in a lot of cases. I was just wondering if they spend regular time in the cage like the Mets’ pitchers do. Article link below.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120704&content_id=34437516&notebook_id=34438526&vkey=notebook_nym&c_id=nym

TheOnlyBravesFan

July 4th, 2012
3:11 pm

1 TheOnlyBravesFan 156

Damn, I need to step back and stop correcting people’s factual errors…. or just lump posts together…

I’ll be around, and try to take time off (if I can) :mrgreen:

JC Boscan III

July 4th, 2012
3:11 pm

I was glad to see Chipper get his 150th career stolen base, also. (He would’ve had it easily earlier in the season, but somebody fouled off the pitch). After the leg injury, I was wondering if he would be feeling good enough to try for #150. Now, we need to get on a major winning streak!!! Win the next 2, and then bury those stinkin’ Phillies later this week, before they can come back to life….

Trivia — last night, Drew Sutton, who was in spring training with the Braves, had a long walk-off homer to win the game for the Pirates. Meanwhile, our bench produces almost nothing…..!

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

Good read, DOB. Thanks

Jimmy

July 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

Bat – If Brian stays for less money than he could command on the open market, he will be elevated to that special player status. I just don’t think he will.

Capt.Mudd

July 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

Thanks DOB for the fresh blog.

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
3:23 pm

Way to step up to the plate with a freshy, DOB.

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Jimmy _

Considering all the speculation who has any idea what the Braves will do. My point is, if the Braves don’t try to extend Heap before the next season then its different than with Chipper.

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Top five 3rd basemen all time:

1.Mike Schmidt

2.George Brett

3.Eddie Matthews (another Brave)

4.Brooks Robinson

5.Chipper Jones

Top five switch hitters all time:

1.Mickey Mantle

2.Pete Rose

3.Eddie Murray

4.Chipper Jones

5.Frankie Frisch

bruce

July 4th, 2012
3:31 pm

Uggla hits two dingers tonight! for fireworks.

Few_DaProud_DaBraves

July 4th, 2012
3:33 pm

With a 90-95 million dollar payroll

The braves could offer McCann contract with the AAV(average annual value) of around 12million. This is comparable to Miguel Montero”s contract but below Joe Mauer’s and Molina’s.

C – McCann 12 million
1B- Freeman 535 k
2b- Uggla 13.2 million
ss- Simmons 480k
3B- ??? 7-9 million
LF- Prado 4.75 arb eligable
CF- Bourn 11-12 million
RF- Heyward 565k arb eligable

Pitching
1 Grienke 18 million
2 Hanson 535 arb
3 Beachy 495
4 Hudson 9 million
5 Jair Jurrgens 5.5 million arb( of course u could subtract this salary and go with Ben Sheets or prospect not included in Gienke deal.)

Bullpen
Kimbrel 590k
Venters 533k arb
Vizcaino 490K
Medlen 490K

I leave the final two spots open because Wren track record is to add two bullpen arms with exp. I leave 3 million total for those 2 slots.

Bench
C-Ross 1.6 FA 1.6
1b/of Hinske FA 1.6
of contanza 480K
2 open benck spots 2million allocated.

So with this there is some wiggle room and payroll reamaining of 2.5 million to make a deal if neccasary at next yrs trade dealline

Tomahawk Mafia

July 4th, 2012
3:43 pm

It is going to be tough to beat Maholm tonight, but hopefully some of that offensive magic from Wednesday will carry over into tonight’s game.

Fols

July 4th, 2012
3:44 pm

I’ve never heard of White Rabbits……am I missing something good here?

BraveDan

July 4th, 2012
3:46 pm

I think McCann is on a downward spiral and valued by us too high. I’ve concluded it would be wise to move him now before the other teams conclude the same thing. The Royals and Dayton Moore still view some of our players in high regard, so maybe we could send him there for a nice package that included Alex Gordon or Wil Myers as the center piece. Any thoughts?

Head Scratcher

July 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

Drew Sutton, who was in spring training with the Braves, had a long walk-off homer to win the game for the Pirates.

Not one of Wren’s brighter moves, letting him go. Sutton has a .320.363.480.843 line for the season. He would have been a lot better than what’s sitting on our bench

nolie

July 4th, 2012
3:49 pm

no way in hell is Brooks Robinson a better third bademan than Chipper,and I was a huge Oriole fan when he was there, prolly not Eddie Mathews either By 35 Mathews was toast

Whiskey River

July 4th, 2012
3:51 pm

Hello Everyone, I would like to tell everyone Happy 4th of July. If any of you out there are Vets. Thank you very much. We live in the greatest country in the world because of you. God Bless America. Go Braves!

nolie

July 4th, 2012
3:51 pm

and no way was Pete Rose a better hitter, none of his numbers are better than Chippers except number of hits which was because he was around forever and hit 1st or 2nd. That’s just plain ignorant

Blog Monitor

July 4th, 2012
3:53 pm

Nolie, well “coach” said it, so it has to be true..

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
3:54 pm

Uggla’s power drought: He’s centered some balls lately and hit some hard liners foul or on the ground down the lines, but Dan Uggla has now gone 20 games without a homer. The All-Star second baseman has hit .119 (8-for-67) with two doubles, two RBIs, 12 walks, 26 strikeouts and a .280 OBP and .149 slugging percentage (.429 OPS) during that stretch.

Was Uggla this streaky in Miami?

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
3:55 pm

Top five switch hitters all time:

1.Mickey Mantle

2.Pete Rose

3.Eddie Murray

4.Chipper Jones

5.Frankie Frisch _ Coach (2012 Fredi’s Beisbol Fandango)

Yeah, whatever. I’ll take Chipper Jones and his 39% XBH rate over Pete Rose and his 24% everyday of the week.

MikeInFl

July 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

Chipper Jones is a much, much better hitter than Pete Rose was.

Jones: .304/.402/.532

Rose: .303/.375/.409

Even things like stolen bases: Chipper is 150 sb vs. 46 cs, a healthy 76.5%; Rose had 198 sb and 149 cs for just 57% – he really shouldn’t have been stealing bases.

Not even close.

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
3:58 pm

I have a good idea of what we see in Chipper every night and seeing a Brave ever doing it again is very unlikely.

kenhotlanta

July 4th, 2012
3:58 pm

Fols: “White Rabbit” by Jefferson Airplane from the 1967 album Surrealistic Pillow…great psychedelic rock.

ncbravesfan90

July 4th, 2012
3:59 pm

Lineup for tonight:

1. Michael Bourn (L) CF
2. Martin Prado (R) LF
3. Jason Heyward (L) RF
4. Chipper Jones (S) 3B
5. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
6. Dan Uggla (R) 2B
7. David Ross (R) C
8. Andrelton Simmons (R) SS
9. Randall Delgado (R) P

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
3:59 pm

Yeah but Coach was a coach. Shouldn’t he know his stuff?

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

You right about chipper vs mathews, nolie. And I say that reluctantly. Cold look at the stats says he beats Mathews in every category cept homers. If we look at their respective monster years, chippers numbers definitely gaudier.

Now in a bar fight, mathews prolly kicks ass.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

Rose………..303 . 375 .409 .784 118
Chipper……..304 .402 .532 .934 141
How anybody can think that Rose was a better hitter, is way beyond me.

kenhotlanta

July 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

Happy Fourth of July to DOB and everyone on the blog. Here’s hoping for another win tonight.

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:02 pm

nolie,

Brooks certainly wasn’t a better hitter than Chipper (in fact, his hitting was nothing to write home about), but he’d have run rings around Chipper – and other third basemen – defensively, in fairness to Brooks.

Eddie Matthews, I think, was a more complete ball player than Chipper. Eddie’s offensive numbers are pretty darn good (he made it to the 500 Club, his glove was much better than Chipper’s, and he was an Ironman).

Chipper, for all his contributions, has largely been dogged by injuries since ‘04. Chipper’s missed over a season on the DL.

Eddie Matthews is in the Hall of Fame for a very good reason. Chipper will – and should – be there, too. But if I had a vote for the Braves’ All-time third baseman, Matthews gets my ballot.

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

Maybe it is because Rose ran out walks.

richbrave

July 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

Head Scratcher
July 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

“……Drew Sutton, who was in spring training with the Braves, had a long walk-off homer to win the game for the Pirates.

Not one of Wren’s brighter moves, letting him go. Sutton has a .320.363.480.843 line for the season. He would have been a lot better than what’s sitting on our bench…..”

Is he sitting on the PIRATES bench? I mean how often does he start.?

MikeInFl

July 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

… and over catchers in exhibition games.

richbrave

July 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

Yeah, HAPPY FOURTH.

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:05 pm

nolie is right

I’m about to write a blog for another Braves site that is my argument that Chipper is the greatest hitting 3rd baseman of all time. Also, if you base production of switch hitters on balance and offense per game. Chipper would be the 2nd greatest switch hitter of all time after Mantle.

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

Not taking anything away from Chipper’s offensive prowess. No argument he’s one of the top hitters at his position and among switch hitters.

But I do say again that Eddie Matthews was the more complete third baseman. Defense matters, and Chipper just wasn’t in Eddie’s league.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:09 pm

I watched the both, Mathews was a bit better glove, but sorry no way was there that much difference. COffensively, Chipper more complete, Better BA, made fewer outs and stole bases . the obly thing that Mathews was noticeably better at was homers. He had some gread power years no doubt, but was done very early, and I really can’t think how hou think he was a more complete player, I would say much less complete. Chipper has had late career problems, but Mathews was a poor shell of himself from about 32 on
Brooks was a great defender, the best I saw, but it does not make up enough IMO for his offense

Whiskey River

July 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

If any of you out there are VETS. Thank you.

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

Pete Rose….4,256 hits. 3000 from the left side alone, another 1000 from the right side. Rose has more hits from one side of the plate than Chipper has from both sides.

p.s. Rose is the only switch hitter in ML history with 3000 hits from one side of the plate. THE ONLY ONE.

Pete Rose had TEN TWO HIT SEASONS, T-E-N for God sake. Chipper has how many? and Chipper’s the better pure hitter? I DON’T THINK SO!

But then again, this is a BRAVES BLOG where fairness and common sense don’t exist. I mean, you would think that these yoyo’s would be happy that CHIPPER IS ON BOTH LISTS!!!! Regardless of ranking.

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:11 pm

Whiskey River

July 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

If any of you out there are VETS. Thank you.

>>>>>>

You’re welcome :)

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:12 pm

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:12 pm

I’m assuming you were around to see Mathews play regularly, so I guess we’ll just have to disagree on that “completeness”. I think they are close but I’d take Chipper. speed wise its not even close.

kcellis

July 4th, 2012
4:13 pm

hey folks, download an sms bomber for your android phone and vote for bourn. I just voted 1000 times, its so easy if you have unlimited messaging

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:13 pm

Pete Rose….4,256 hits. 3000 from the left side alone, another 1000 from the right side. Rose has more hits from one side of the plate than Chipper has from both sides.

p.s. Rose is the only switch hitter in ML history with 3000 hits from one side of the plate. THE ONLY ONE.

Pete Rose had TEN TWO HUNDRED HIT SEASONS, T-E-N for God sake. Chipper has how many? and Chipper’s the better pure hitter? I DON’T THINK SO!

But then again, this is a BRAVES BLOG where fairness and common sense don’t exist. I mean, you would think that these yoyo’s would be happy that CHIPPER IS ON BOTH LISTS!!!! Regardless of ranking.

Bat Masterson

July 4th, 2012
4:14 pm

Pete Rose….4,256 hits. 3000 from the left side alone, another 1000 from the right side. Rose has more hits from one side of the plate than Chipper has from both sides.

He also had almost 16,000 PAs ………….. he was around a long time and played butt load of games. That dosen’t make him better

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:14 pm

I’m sure Keith Lockheart had ten, at least, 2 hit seasons as well, Coach. Doesn’t make him better than Chipper. Or does it?

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:15 pm

i swear Coach’s post said ten two hit seasons. My eyes must be playing tricks on me. :oops:

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:16 pm

so what coach? none of his numbers including batting average are as good as chippers. His numbers are based on number of at bats and nothing more. He got a lot of PAs every season and did not walk all that much and played forever. Best I can give him is “third baseman with the most time on the field” there are 170 hitters with better batting averages, if any of them had his number of at bats they would all have more hits.

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Coach

take that singles hitting mess of Pete Rose all you want, I will take the doubles, and homers AND superior batting avg of Chipper Jones and beat you up and down the field with it and twice on sundays

nobody thinks Pete Rose was a better hitter than Chipper, probably not even Pete Rose

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

oh well, we all know about coach anyway…. ;)

Brava

July 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

Whiskey River, you’re welcome.

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

nolie, you’ve got me on watching Matthews. I was just a kid in the sixties when Matthews was wrapping up his career, so my memories of him playing are vague.

Matthews decline began when he was 34. Chipper’s injury streak began when he was 32 and, for all intents and purposes, Chipper’s been something of a part time player ever since.

As to Matthews’ defense, those I know who are older than me and remember Matthews from his heyday think that he was an elite defender in his time. Chipper has never been close in that regard.

As always, I need to say that this isn’t a Chipper slam (Chipper loyalists get touchy). Chipper belongs in the HOF, but I’ll stand by my opinion that Matthews was the more complete third baseman.

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

not to mention that in the history of the game there are only 22 batters to retire in the 300/400/500 club

and Chipper will be number 23

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:20 pm

Let me raise the stakes in the chipper Mathews debate. Who was better at his peak?

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

here’s hopin’ for a miracle tonight and we beat Maholm :D
cya’ll later

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

actually I’m wrong,Helton and Pujols are still active, so Chipper will be number 21 when he retires

here are the other 20: Gehrig, Ruth, Foxx, Cobb,Ted Williams,Musial, Frank Thomas,Larry Walker,Edgar martinez, Hank Greenber, Mel Ott, Ed Delehanty

Brava

July 4th, 2012
4:22 pm

Chipper will beat Maholm with one hand tied behind his back. ;)

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:23 pm

Jeff R, they won’t argue much when it comes to Matthews over Chipper, simply because both played for our Braves :)

Jersey Gil

July 4th, 2012
4:24 pm

Whiskey River

July 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

If any of you out there are VETS. Thank you.

>>>>>>

You’re welcome
101 Airborne Div Charlie co. 1970 Vietnam

kcellis

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

folks with android and unlimited messaging need this http://www.androidfreeware.net/mirror/sms-bomber-text-bomber.1.50.apk

its an sms bomber, I just voted for bourn 2000 times in the past few minutes

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

Woody Woodward,

Great question. Have to give the edge to Chipper offensively because of his switching hitting. But Matthews in his prime hit for power,scored runs, and hit for average, too. No slacker, he.

Matthews had a better glove than Chipper’s.

I’ll take Matthews in his prime because of his defensive edge.

TheOnlyBravesFan

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

Storming in Kennesaw… Got to go inside now…. and we weren’t even done grilling yet! :(

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

I left Roberto Alomar .Jr off the top five switch hitters list and nobody said a word. Must be a BRAVESSSSS BLOG.

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

You know what though … if we … BALLGAME!

Oregon Brave

July 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

When Chipper hit that walk-off against the Phils in early May, I decided to be at Turner Field for his last walk off in Sept. against the Mets.Got the tix 3 weeks later and started thinking that it was a pretty bad investment till last night. So. Friday night and Sunday in late Sept., I’ll be there. With a Dawgs/Vols game on Sat., should be a grand weekend. Don’t you think?
Go Braves.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:26 pm

Woody, I think Mathews was better for a while at his best.
More power, some better D. Chipper better all around hitter and much more speed.
I can see someone calling it either way.
Both were hampered in their later years, Chipper by injury, Eddie by booze

Jersey Gil

July 4th, 2012
4:27 pm

here some Pic from Vietnam,i in Page 51…young looking fellow

http://bill3sarah.smugmug.com/Charlie-Company-1/The-Men/11022175_gkQZw#!i=373873123&k=mRRrj

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Coach (2012 Fredi’s Beisbol Fandango),

You actually have a good point. The Braves have had two of the game’s greatest third baseman in Chipper and Matthews. Pretty remarkable.

Billy Walsh

July 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Mantle had zero 200 hit seasons…

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Game will be banged, not happening, done for.

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Jeff,

Mathews had an “edge,” thats for sure. I’m on the fence on this one. In a big game, I’m even more unsure.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:29 pm

Fielding percentages were about the same, Mathews had more range even though Chipper was faster

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

According to fangraphs Mathews was only a slightly better fielder than Chipper, he posted 2 excellent seasons at 3B with the glove, but the rest of his seasons are similar to Chipper (also Chipper had 2 terrible glove years that have skewed his overall numbers too)

Frankly. they look pretty similar overall , and I don’t think 2 seasons of defense, either way, is enough to overcome Chipper’s obvious advantage with the bat.

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Coach

take that singles hitting mess of Pete Rose all you want, I will take the doubles, and homers AND superior batting avg of Chipper Jones and beat you up and down the field with it and twice on sundays

nobody thinks Pete Rose was a better hitter than Chipper, probably not even Pete Rose.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

REAALLLLLY????

And where pray tell did Pete Rose hit primarily and what was his job?

p.s. you already provided the answer, albeit with total ignorance.

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

Not sure it makes a huge difference, but Eddie had Henry.

Whiskey River

July 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

Thank you Vets. I am also a Vet . 1957 Punson S.Korea. Bye everyone Got to go Go Braves!!!

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:31 pm

Both [Chipper and Matthews] were hampered in their later years, Chipper by injury, Eddie by booze.

It amazing to me to read how much ballplayers drank in the “old days.” Read the accounts of Mantle, Maris, and the Yanks boozing in the fifties and early sixties. No wonder some of these guys burned out earlier than they should have.

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:31 pm

Justice was my favrite, and so he was better than every player wroten on those list. He win us are one world seres!

Woody Woodward

July 4th, 2012
4:32 pm

Chipper had eight straight 100 RBI seasons. Eddie had but five in his entire career.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:32 pm

he hit first or second cause he didn’t have enough pop to hit anywhere else. I can’t believe you thing hanging around forever makes him a great hitter.

MikeInFl

July 4th, 2012
4:32 pm

NickB, I can’t imagine that the defensive WAR stats for the dark ages (20th century) are very accurate. Not arguing Matthews vs Chipper (never saw Eddie play), just don’t see how they could very well document defensive ability when all they were keeping was fielding percentage.

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:33 pm

ignorance?

Rose played most of hi career with the Reds and played the most games in the outfield, followed by 1st base then 3rd, then 2nd.

what this has to do with his career OPS of .784 being not even in the same league as Chipper’s .934 I have no idea

if you think Pete Rose was a better hitter than Chipper, you sir, are toting around a giant douchebag of ignorance

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:34 pm

why would they not be accurate? same stats. more likely memories are less accurate

Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)

July 4th, 2012
4:34 pm

p.s.

Pete Rose was a LEAD OFF HITTER most of his career. 4,256 hits of which 3,215 were SINGLES. Which by the DAMN WAY WAS HIS F–N JOB.

ChattTownBrian

July 4th, 2012
4:34 pm

Who is Eddie Matthews? These people I don’t know, so how are they even on a list with Chipper Jones. I know about Pete Rose because I have a 1986 topps baseball card of him as a manager of the Reds. I do know who he is.

NickB

July 4th, 2012
4:34 pm

Coach

if you are trying to say that due to where Rose hit in the lineup he wasn’t supposed to hit for extra bases, that ship has sailed

If he was a better hitter, he would have hit for power, that’s just how it is

Jeff R

July 4th, 2012
4:36 pm

NickB, there are also intangibles in defense that stats aren’t going to capture. Just aren’t.

Seriously, when Chipper makes it to the Hall, the citation won’t address Chipper’s D. That’s okay. Chipper’s one heckuva natural hitter with amazing plate discipline. I hope the Braves roll him into the organization as a roving hitting instructor. I think he’d have a lot to teach younger hitters, especially.

nolie

July 4th, 2012
4:36 pm

right, cause he had no pop. how does that make him a great hitter, and even there his BA and OBP are both lower than Chippers. how great of a lead off hitter is that?

BFChris27

July 4th, 2012
4:36 pm

Can’t wait for some baseball tonight 8-)

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