Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,027 comments Add your comment
jeffrey d
July 3rd, 2012
11:52 am
I’m ok with the team going all-in on players and trying to win this year, but if, and only if, there is accountability.
You’re saying (I think you are) that a Greinke trade could either push the Braves over the top or leave them coming up short. If it’s a “gamble,” and could go either way, why call for Wren’s head if it fails (especially given his track record of good trades)? And what kind of precedent would that set for the next GM? “Take a risk and fail, and you’re gone.”
jeffrey d
July 3rd, 2012
11:53 am
I’ve known BRICKS smarter than you.
You know bricks?
Jeff R
July 3rd, 2012
11:53 am
George and howard the season ticket holder need to be pen pals.
Brava
July 3rd, 2012
11:54 am
There’s a lot more wrong with this team than one player like Grienke can ever fix….
Agreed. I, for one, don’t want to see our prospects squandered on a couple months of Greinke while Fredi is still leading the team. This team will go nowhere as long as he is in charge. Aside from that, the bullpen and the bench are both very weak and need to be shored up.
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
11:54 am
Yeah, they make up a portion of my house.
Frankie Wren
July 3rd, 2012
11:55 am
Oh man if the O doesn’t put up at least 6 runs on Volstad tonight this place is going to erupt late night. Guy hasn’t won a game in almost a year. 2-1 nailbiter with J Hey being balked in from 3rd in the 9th.
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
11:55 am
Maybe an impact drill to go along with that impact hammer to solidify the bench.
ncscoots
July 3rd, 2012
11:56 am
But I can go along with your idea that a pitching stud won’t win it alone.
I guess. They’re going to need some good pitching karma re Jurrjens and Venters, too. With the two kids not able to even deliver fifth-starter performances regularly, the loss of Beachy really gives them very little margin for error. I mean, we got a Ben Sheets Watch, fercrissake, and a Jair Jurrjens Watch, too, LOL. These be desperate times, brother.
Frankie Wren
July 3rd, 2012
11:57 am
This team is dire need of a ex Florida manager.
FW get on the phone with Jack McKeon!
jeffrey d
July 3rd, 2012
11:57 am
Well mine too but I don’t know them
DiamondbackMac
July 3rd, 2012
11:58 am
Lew
In 1960, Griffith appeared as a county sheriff (who was also a justice of the peace and the editor of the local newspaper) in an episode of Make Room for Daddy, starring Danny Thomas. This episode, in which Thomas’ character is stopped for speeding in a little town, served as a backdoor pilot for The Andy Griffith Show. Both shows were produced by Sheldon Leonard.
antenna watchers only see two games a week
July 3rd, 2012
11:59 am
Wow, nice post Masterson…I’m a CCR fan and never read those lyrics before!
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
11:59 am
…
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:00 pm
Well, I see dead people, so…
antenna watchers only see two games a week
July 3rd, 2012
12:00 pm
Mardi Gras is the one I never throw on the turntable (a.k.a. “Fogerty’s Revenge”) as the rest of the album is weak. But, I’ll be cranking it up tonight!
Cheers.
George Stein
July 3rd, 2012
12:02 pm
I think the Braves have enough to get to the playoffs, and once there, who knows what’ll happen. If there’s a silver lining, if we get a wild card, we won’t have to burn our ace that round.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:03 pm
Dempster might be a nice piece for a #3/4 starter, but if we get him he wouldn’t and shouldn’t be our ace. Add in his injury issues and age, we shouldn’t trade too much to get him.
jeffrey d
July 3rd, 2012
12:03 pm
Okay I’m sorry. I know the point you were trying to make.
Murph
July 3rd, 2012
12:04 pm
If it’s a “gamble,” and could go either way, why call for Wren’s head if it fails
I don’t think Greinke would put the team over the top, but I do get the impression that the front office does, despite the myriad of other issues currently facing the team.
Going back to my original point, if Wren gambles on Greinke without a signed extension, and it costs the team Teheran or Delgado, then in my view he’s being foolish and needs to be held accountable should the move fail. Why? Because, in my view, he’s wagering the team’s future on a move with a very low probability of success.
I consider myself to be a pretty good blackjack player. If I were to take the 4 year old’s college fund and wager it on a single hand of blackjack, she’d have every right to be pissed should I lose. Doesn’t matter that I am a good player, the odds of winning a single hand of blackjack are against me, and the risk doesn’t justify the reward.
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:05 pm
Well, I for one am favorably impressed with the coaching staff. At least, the hitting instruction in the minors. AL SIMMONS said repeatedly as his developed his swing that he listened to the instruction and tried to implement it as best he could. Seems that his coaching combined with his talent are bothe paying off.
Now as to FREDDI’s managerial abilities, I will wait a bit longer.
A lot of folks are getting on his case. The NATS announcers were panning some of his game moves in the second game of the last series. Or at least, that’s the way I took them.
kenhotlanta
July 3rd, 2012
12:05 pm
richbrave: Brother Dave Gardner was a great comic who is largely forgotten today…I saw him many times in the ATL back in the 60’s and he was always hilarious. His albums along with Redd Foxx and Rusty Warren’s “Knockers Up” were in everyone’s collection back then.
Also heard Andy Griffith was not a lovable curmudgeon (like nolie…ha!), and could be short and curt with fans.
jeffrey d
July 3rd, 2012
12:06 pm
Murph – do you think Wren should be safe if he doesn’t make a huge move and the team falls flat?
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:07 pm
CraZy:
So I guess you’re not inclined to do that?
Hillbilly
July 3rd, 2012
12:07 pm
the last time Wren felt pressure on his pitching nerve, he signed Lowe and Kawakami.
That was more specifically Charles Hamilton James and Jorge Hidalgo Campillo dancing on Wren’s pitching nerve…not just your general everyday pressure.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:07 pm
DOB – when saying the Braves are not as high on our pitching prospects/young pitchers as last year at this time – are you just referring to Delgado, Minor, and Teheran or is Venters included in that one as well.
Venters could still fetch a good price if he went on the market as well
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:08 pm
REJOICE DEAR HEARTS
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:10 pm
I wish someone would just give us an ace for free.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:10 pm
Murph – do you think Wren should be safe if he doesn’t make a huge move and the team falls flat?
I’m not Murph, but I’d think that Wren would be feeling a little heat (though I don’t think he should). He’d have 5 years of control and only 1 playoff appearance…
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:13 pm
Well at least Charles Hamilton James was solid until the sixth. Sometimes we don’t even get that.
Hillbilly
July 3rd, 2012
12:14 pm
despite the myriad of other issues currently facing the team.
The Bench and the Bullpen. I don’t think Wren would be ignoring these two issues by going after a big-time starter. The pieces he would use to hypothetically fetch a starter shouldn’t come from the same piggy bank designated for a bench bat or bullpen arm anyway.
Hillbilly
July 3rd, 2012
12:15 pm
“Living in fear is just another way of dying before your time.” -Mike Cooley
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:18 pm
Greinke is said to like the Braves, and vice versa; Braves being cautious for now, though
By Jon Heyman | Baseball Insider
July 3, 2012 11:34 am ET
As we saw last time he was about to leave a team, Zack Greinke has some very definite ideas about where he wants to play — and where he doesn’t want to play. And one former teammate said Greinke would like to be an Atlanta Brave, if given the chance.
According to Greinke’s friend, he very much likes Atlanta, and its proximity to his Florida home would be another plus (Greinke hails from the Orlando area). Greinke, for his part, steadfastly has refused to comment on any teams beyond his current Brewers.
The Braves, meantime, are believed to like Greinke, as well, but haven’t decided yet how hard to buy in the trade market after recent struggles.
The Braves have scouted Greinke and are considering a run at the free-agent-to-be star righthander but their lackluster play lately means they probably will wait to decide whether to give up top prosects for a run at the pennant. Atlanta, 41-38, has lost four of five and is five games behind the Nationals in the NL East. The Braves recently signed veteran Ben Sheets to a minor-league deal, and he starts his comeback Wednesday for the Double-A Mississippi Braves.
Greinke’s friend still sees the Braves as a team likely to be high on Greinke’s wish list as a free agent, despite their recent struggles. Over the past couple decades the Braves have won about as consistently as any team not considered to be a “major” market. “Winning is going to be the big thing for (Greinke),” the friend said.
Greinke rejected a deal to the Nationals two winters ago because he wasn’t sure they were ready to win before accepting the trade to Milwaukee. Greinke’s choice looked prescient, as the Brewers won the NL Central last year, but he noted this spring in conversation with me that he might have under-rated the Nationals’ talent (of couse in that Nationals trade, they would have had to send multiple top young talents to Kansas City).
Greinke is a candidate for the the trade market, as the injury-depleted Brewers have struggled most of the year. Greinke, 9-2 with a 2.82 ERA, is a free agent after the year, and contract talks broke off with the Brewers shortly after the Giants signed comparable righthander Matt Cain to a $112.5-million, five-year deal.
The Brewers were hoping to keep Greinke on a deal along the lines of Jered Weaver’s $85-million, five-year extension. However, Greinke is said to have turned down about $100 million from the Nationals at the time he rebuffed their overture, and Cain’s contract and Greinke’s big start have likely pushed his value way up, quite possibly beyond what Milwaukee will be willing to pay.
The Braves aren’t a team that’s been a top bidder in the free-agent market in recent years, as their payroll has remained at about $90 million for the last six years.
CrαZy
July 3rd, 2012
12:19 pm
Anyway I could contact ROBBY’s dad?
Rich… I don’t know him that well… He worked for my dad and I see him every once in a while at the store. He lives a few miles down the road from my house!
He talked to my dad a few weeks ago and said Robby was pretty discouraged with going back to low A. Apparently he asked the Braves if he could work on his pitching (He pitched a bunch in high school and college) they told him they liked him where he was at!?!?! He said if he gets let go he’s going to sign somewhere else as a pitcher unless the Braves give him a chance first.
DiamondbackMac
July 3rd, 2012
12:19 pm
Hillbilly
Here’s one of my favorite quotes.
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
— Frank Herbert, Dune – Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
David O'Brien
July 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Brian: I said “prospects.” Venters not a prospect, as you know.
Murph
July 3rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Murph – do you think Wren should be safe if he doesn’t make a huge move and the team falls flat?
Should Wren stand pat and not do anything, then I’d give him 2013 and the financial flexibility that comes with it to see what he can do.
I feel like I keep repeating this, but I’ll do it again anyways… if the front office does a proper evaluation of this team as it is now and determines that they are a piece or two away from contention, then by all means, make the moves that they think should be made and go for it.
If they look at the team and determine that they’d be better off waiting until 2013 to go all-in because the team doesn’t have the horses to get them to the finish line this season, then they should sit on their hands until the offseason.
I personally don’t think this team has what it takes to get to the World Series. I think they are reasonably close, but not close enough where a trade for a single rotation arm, ace or not, is going to make the difference needed.
I know I sound pout-pout fish, but I’m trying to be realistic. The core of players is starting to take shape… Heyward, Freeman, Prado, Beachy, Hanson, Kimbrel, even add Simmons to that group despite the small sample size… that’s a solid group of players. The team should be able to afford another 2 or so solid pieces this offseason, plus hopefully continue to mold guys like Delgado and Teheran to take their place among the team’s better group of guys.
I like the future with that group of players. I don’t like the future as much when part of it is mortgaged on a risk that has a low probability of success.
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:10 pm
“……I wish someone would just give us an ace for free……”
Too bad we can’t discern one with out first round picks. Lord knows we try often enough. Who are BRETT DeVALL, CORY RASMUS, BEAU JONES, LUIS ATILANO, DAN MEYER, JOE McBRIDE BTW? Here’s six in the past thirteen drafts. Well CORY RASMUIS is still a reliefer in MISSISSIPPI I guess.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:22 pm
To those who think Grienke can’t have that big an impact because he will only play every 5 days:
Since the start of 2010, Grienke has been a 12.6-win player.
Tim Hudson has been an 8-win player over that stretch.
Both McCann and Heyward have been an 10.6-win players over that stretch. Prado has been a 9.6-win player.
From 2005-2007 Mark Teixeira was a 13.6-win player.
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:23 pm
I think many here are expecting things fromGrienke that he just might not provide,
The Dude has ONE good season to his credit – one Exceptional season at a venue with no pressure, no expectations and no constant media coverage, followed by two where he was hardly an Ace – which is what I think many here expect him to be. Take away that one good year three years ago and what remains is hardly an Ace pitcher. And don’t tell me “But hes pitching great this year” cause we saw what happened with JJ and Hanson on a great half season.
He’s going to cost a premium based on that one unrepeated season. He may not provide what the money he will demand should guarantee.
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:25 pm
CraZy:
I’d love to have my grandson hear from the horses-mouth what minor’s ball is all about. Folks have been filling his head with $$$$ signs, and I want to give him some insight into what’s in store for him before he decides to turn his back on a great education at UVA.
CrαZy
July 3rd, 2012
12:25 pm
From the start of Sept 2011 I’ve been a 6.5 beer per game fan!!
Rate went down when we were 25-15, but has drastically increased with the 6 games under .500 play since!!
Ease
July 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
From the start of Sept 2011 I’ve been a 6.5 beer per game fan!!
Pansy.
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
Lew, just about everyone you trade for has the possibility to not provide what you expect but I think Greinke is as close to what we need as anyone. He’s definitely an ace and has a power arm, he’s young for a starter of that caliber and allows us to drop one of the unproductive spots in the rotation we presently have.
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
CraZy:
He’ll be in HOTLANTA starting Friday in the big EAST COAST tournament [8 days]. VIRGINIA CARDINALS are in it again. TYLER ALLEN CF.
CrαZy
July 3rd, 2012
12:30 pm
Rich I can see if my Dad can give me some contact info!!
Bat Masterson
July 3rd, 2012
12:31 pm
antenna watchers_
Glad you enjoyed it
DbMac_
I haven’t thought of Dune in years, nice reference.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:32 pm
got a question to Stark but no new answer……
Brian (Greensboro)
who is the sleeper candidate to be the starting pitcher the Braves acquire?
Jayson Stark (12:30 PM)
I mentioned in Rumblings last week that they’ve scouted Jason Vargas extensively. I don’t know that he fits, since his ERA outside of Safeco, is over 5.00. But he’s their type of deal target — non-rental player, slightly outside the Rumor Central box
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:32 pm
<<
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:32 pm
Transplant – He’s an Ace based on what? A career 3.76 ERA and 1.25 WHIP ewven with that Cy Young season added to his numbers?
Would he help us? Yeah, likely so. Would he be worth what he’d cost? Maybe, but there is no consistent track record to indicate it. Like I said – he’ll be paid on the basis of what he COULD be and not what he has been. I believe a closer cost benefit ananlysis might see us not so happy in the very near future.
CrαZy
July 3rd, 2012
12:33 pm
Pansy
Wait a min…. I like to remember a little of the game!! 6.5 is only the number during games. It wouldn’t be accurate to include what goes down after games!! That would be like using HR’s hit in BP to your season total!!
Truth is I can’t even remember the last time I had a beer!
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:34 pm
Thanx CraZy. Appreciate it. His dad would be just as good a convo methinks.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:34 pm
DOB – I know- that is why I phrased my question prosepcts/young pitchers instead of just prospects like you mentioned. I just didn’t know if the Braves had soured on Venters at all or would be more willing to move him to someone desparate for bullpen help if it helped the Braves fill a void (SP, big bat, etc)
Bat Masterson
July 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
“Living in fear is just another way of dying before your time.” -Mike Cooley _ Hillbilly
I had to look that one up. Cool, thanks
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
not saying at all that I would move venters for Bourjos but as an example the Angels need a relief pitcher and we get a LF who could play CF next year if Bourn bolts
Do you see the Angels making any moves before the deadline? Possibly involving Santana or Bourjos?
Jayson Stark (12:31 PM)
I keep hearing they’d move Bourjos for a difference-making reliever they could control for a while. I’d watch that front attentively!
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
CraZy:
Justin Verlander’s dad spoke to a travel team about the vagaries of collage vs. pro baseball. Interesting. Unfortunately, I only picked up a few pointers second-hand from one of the parents in attendance.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:40 pm
Grienke has 5 seasons of an ERA+ of 120 or better (adjusted ERA 20 percent better than league average), including this season.
Grienke has had an ERA+ of 100 or better in every season of his career except his second year in the majors. Since the start of the 2008 season he’s averaged 186 IP a season.
He has better stuff and misses more bats than Jurrjens, and it’s not close. Jair Jurrjens he is not. Tommy Hanson is a more apt comparison, although Hanson’s control and ability to keep the ball in the park hasn’t been nearly as good as Grienke’s over the last couple of seasons. The chances of Grienke becoming anything like Jurrjens are extremely slim. Grienke and Hanson could end up similar but that will likely be because Hanson has improved; Hanson certainly has the stuff.
Grienke may not be an ace but he’s a sure-fire number two, which would be the top starter on most major league teams, even good ones with good pitching staffs. I think he would be worth one of the top 3-4 prospects plus a lesser prospect, given that there is not a clear-cut uber-prospect in the Braves’ system right now.
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:40 pm
,,,
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
I keep hearing they’d move Bourjos for a difference-making reliever they could control for a while. I’d watch that front attentively!
Cory Gearrin and Varvaro for Bourjos! Make it happen Wren!
richbrave
July 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
98
Hillbilly
July 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
I had to look that one up. Cool, thanks -Bat
That man is full of great quotes. That particular song happens to be about Lynyrd Skynyrd’s last aiplane ride.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:43 pm
He’s an Ace based on what? A career 3.76 ERA and 1.25 WHIP ewven with that Cy Young season added to his numbers?
He’s a near-ace based on his ability to miss bats, keep the ball in the park and his control, command and stuff. Look at stats that give us some indication how good a pitcher is at doing these things, not stats like ERA and WHIP, or you might as well not look at stats at all. ERA and WHIP are dependent on defense and run environment.
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
Shaun – Yeah, like I said, he’d help. But he’s not as great as most here think, is not hardly worth the rental fee he’d cost for two months and might not be worth the longer term rates he’d command.
Should they check him out and kick the tires on a potential deal? Absolutely. But shoud they give up the farm for him? No freaking way.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
got this on Stark’s chat as well…
Brian (Greensboro)
would Jonny Venters meet the Angels definition of an impact reliever? The Braves could use another OF with Chipper out so frequently and with Bourjos being able to leadoff and play CF would also give them flexibility if the Braves cannot sign Bourn to an extension….
Jayson Stark (12:42 PM)
That’s a very interesting proposal. Haven’t heard any talk that Venters is available. But that’s a very sensible topic of conversation
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
Shaun, I’d still like to see us have the Brewers include Davis in any trade coming our way even if we would have to give a little more in a package going that direction.
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
Ah, A NEAR Ace. Then he should be cheap, right?
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan – they said difference maker reliever – Gearrin and Varvaro would not meet my definition of that.
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
12:47 pm
As far as Peter Bourjos goes, I’m not so sure he’d be worth a Venters.
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
I’m not so sure Bourjos would be much of an improvement over what Cunningham might bring to the table.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
Please stop viewing stats like you view gymnastic judges’ scores. Look at the ones that actually measure things that individual players do that are important to preventing and creating runs. An impressive ERA and WHIP might be nice and pretty but they don’t always tell you if an individual pitcher is doing the things necessary to prevent enough runs.
An unimpressive ERA and WHIP could just be a result of a pitching having someone like Yuniesky Betancourt playing behind him.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
AT – doesn’t mean the Braves wouldn’t get a prospect with Bourjos as well
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
Yeah, let’s totally forget abpout how many runs he gives up and how many runners he lets on base. Useless information when you can come up with something else that has a + in it’s formula.
Honestly, I don’t care how many he strikes out. I don’t care that his runs don’t score on HOme RUns. What I DO care about is how many runs he does gives up and he hasn’t been so Ace Like in that regard, has he?
Hillbilly
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
As far as Peter Bourjos goes, I’m not so sure he’d be worth a Venters.
I agree. The bullpen needs help. Replacing Jonny Venters with a 4th outfielder and essentially Cory Gearrin gets the Braves nowhere…even with Venters recent struggles in mind.
Bat Masterson
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
That particular song happens to be about Lynyrd Skynyrd’s last aiplane ride.
I found a quip about that. What a sad day that was……….
DS1
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
What do we truly need? A big time starter (not using the term ace on purpose)? One more hitter?
Probably both that this point. Problem with getting a hitter is that our guys when they are hitting are awesome, but we are way prone to inconsistency. One more bat doesn’t necessarily make our guys more consistent.
What is wrong with McCann? Or how can we keep Uggla from going into these prolonged slumps.
And Heyward and Freeman are also very up and down.
And is it me, or does it seem that Bourn sure kills a lot of rallies with his K’s with runners on base?
If this were my team, I’d do a tweak or two; and ride out the youngsters. No guarantees if we added a Willingham or a Greinke that we’d be much better in the long run.
And none of us wants a two month rental. (or a 20 million per year starter)
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
TheOnlyBravesFan – they said difference maker reliever – Gearrin and Varvaro would not meet my definition of that.
Sarcasm, brian. If we had any difference making relievers, they’d be up on our MLB roster…. we need ‘pen help as it is…
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
is not hardly worth the rental fee he’d cost for two months and might not be worth the longer term rates he’d command.
Not a single rumored target has ever been worth the cost…
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
A top 3-4 prospect and a lesser prospect in the current Braves’ system would be worth it. And $15M-$20M a year (on average) for the next 4-5 years would be reasonable for what he’s likely to provide.
brian
July 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
what we need in the pen is a right handed set up man. Aaron Crow from KC would be perfect
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
How could I have been so blind? Of curse Grienke gave up an average of four runs per nine over the past two seasons because of Betancourt.
ChattTownBrian
July 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
If they trade Delgado for a few months of Greinke they sure are desperate for a playoff run. Holy smokes! What a bad, terrible, hideous, disgusting, lousy deal that would be. Minor and a few other okay prospects should be enough. I’d be perfectly fine with that because he is a pitcher we need at the top of the rotation, but could also energize a once again lathargic looking team.
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
LOwe compared to Grienke’s past two years
C’mon. Lowe was 36 in his first year as a Brave, 34 and 35 in his two proceeding years. Grienke is 28 and 27. World of difference age makes.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
An unimpressive ERA and WHIP could just be a result of a pitching having someone like Yuniesky Betancourt playing behind him.
This. Just look at Simmons. People here say that he will (which he has) helped his pitchers get more outs, which in turn can lower ERA and WHIP. How? By getting to balls Pastornicky wasn’t. ERA and WHIP doesn’t tell the whole story. The defense behind him matters as well.
DS1
July 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
Mac and Uggla will represent about 28% of our payroll next season. Do we really want to give up another 20% on a non-ace starting pitcher? Really?
CrαZy
July 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
Please stop viewing stats like you view gymnastic judges’ scores.
So RBI and HR…ect are opinion based stats??
Murph
July 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
The Braves could potentially go into the all-star break under .500, trailing the Nats by 7 or 8 games.
I know the chance of this is basically zero, but… I wonder what Bourn and McCann would fetch out on the market if they were made available?
Bourn probably wouldn’t get all that much given that he’s headed to free agency, but McCann, with a year of control left, could fetch quite a bounty even with his horrible 2012 numbers.
I know, won’t happen. Just a different way to look at the trading deadline that’s fast approaching.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
In free agent dollars Grienke has been worth $15.9M this season (in just 3 months), $17.7M last season, $20.4M in 2010, $42M in 2009, $22.3M in 2008.
So he’s been (or will be) at least a $17.7M player, in terms of free agent dollars, in each of the last 5 seasons, including this season.
And the Braves won’t make another Teixeira type trade simply because they don’t have those types of prospects in the system currently, at least not at high enough levels where it’s apparent that they are those types of prospects and other teams would clearly recognize it.
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
But, that did make me look up Lowe. I recall the beginning of the year when he was 6-1 with a 2.05 ERA… now he’s 7-6 with a 4.42 ERA. He’s gone 1-5 with a 7.33 ERA in his past 8 starts. 38 runs allowed (35 earned) in his past 43 innings. Batters are hitting .333/.381/.478/.858 off of him over that stretch. Sounds a lot like some young starters we watch, minus the upside potential.
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
TenPaul – Maybe if you read the entire post you would have seen I made that point? Nonetheless, their numbers for those two seasons prior are eerily similar. Grienke may have miore upside, but little of it has been shown so far.
ASgain – would he help us? Yeah, he would. Is he worth the price in prospects and a $15-20 million per year long term salary on a team where $90 mil in salary seems optimistic? Hell, no.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
It’s not like Greinke’s blowing up with an ERA of 4.5 or higher…. he’s putting up respectable numbers. Imagine what he could do with our defense and a team that he likes.
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
Is he worth the price in prospects and a $15-20 million per year long term salary on a team where $90 mil in salary seems optimistic? Hell, no.
Not a single target has been worth the cost…
phil
July 3rd, 2012
12:59 pm
George
July 3rd, 2012
11:44 am
phil
July 3rd, 2012
11:38 am
phil- I hate to say it because I agree with some of your posts, but your wait till next year addtude S**ks.
*********
Um, George? I have never had a wait til next year attitude. Ever. I hate that kind of thinking…
Detest it actually, even when it’s sometimes obvious that waiting is all we can do.
We’re not very good. There is no magic fix for this bunch. The season is half over, we had all of last year as well, and what we see is what we get. A wildly inconsistent bunch that errs on the side of being bad more than good, the actual record aside. I’m afraid we’ll be below .500 by month’s end, if not before.
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
1:01 pm
DS1, I have no problem with giving him 20 over 5, the money has to go somewhere. Like I said, we gave over 20 to 2 worthless pitchers in Lowe and Kawakami.
ChattTownBrian
July 3rd, 2012
1:01 pm
Maybe Wren needs to make a trade of some bats and baseballs to Target for a half seasons supply of Huggies for our pitchers, just like Hanson, who stink and pee themselves every other start. Throw in a few packs of ballpark peanuts for Fredi while he’s at it.
Shaun
July 3rd, 2012
1:02 pm
So RBI and HR…ect are opinion based stats??
RBI are not like gymnastic judges scores in terms of being opinion-based. More in terms of looking pretty on a baseball card or in a program, but not really measuring anything of use when it comes down to evaluating and judging individual players.
C’mon. Lowe was 36 in his first year as a Brave, 34 and 35 in his two proceeding years. Grienke is 28 and 27. World of difference age makes.
Also, Lowe did not miss bats, which is the single biggest factor in a pitcher being consistently good or great. Not many number two or even number three types are the kinds of pitchers who don’t miss bats. I’m not saying that’s all a pitcher needs to be able to do. But that’s where it basically starts.
Lew
July 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
TenPaul – I agree with you on that. Time for some to be realistic. We can’t afford a player who will cost that much of the total payroll and one good pitcher is not going to be the difference maker either this year or next.
We have other needs than a top line pitcher both now and going forward. If they can get Grienke for a Bourn like deal? Go for it – even as a rental. If not and they can only sign him at top market value? Just can’t do it.
Kashi
July 3rd, 2012
1:04 pm
Ask Indians to give us D.Lowe back !!!
George
July 3rd, 2012
1:04 pm
Looking at this team position by position it is not nearly as bad as they have been playing. They have seemed to have fixed the weak SS position. Pitching that at the start of the season looked very strong now as far as starters go, has become our greatest weakness, that is due to the fact that FREDI does not know how to MGR a pitching staff. Our MGR and hitting coaches doe not seem to have a clue on how to get BRIAN and DAN out of thier slumps. As Tomahawkin said yesterday FRANK WREN deserves a A- for his work considering what money he has to work with. FREDI on day to day handleing of team deserves a big fat F, and be sent packing now. Let EDDIE PEREZ MGR the team the rest of season, see how he does, or bring up our AAA MGR, but do something NOW. The weak hearts on this blog who love FREDI and say “don’t make a move now that will hurt next season” are crazy. Wait till next year is no good when the track record shows no improvement from year to year.
ChattTownBrian
July 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
Fredi could be a door greeter.
Arkansas Transplant
July 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
How can we not afford it next season? We’re paying another pitcher 10 million to pitch for another club this year.
TheOnlyBravesFan
July 3rd, 2012
1:06 pm
Disclaimer: In no way am I advocating trading for Greinke, just thinking of how it could be good.