2:52 pm June 28, 2012, by David O'Brien
June 29th, 201212:23 pm
I’m sure he will hit again (which he did do for 2 months and a week), but right now he sucks (for 3 weeks).
I agree, a blown save should only be given in the 9th or extra innings
I think the save in and itself is silly. However, since the stat does exist, it is a bit absurd to say a save can’t be blown before the 9th.
(Rob from SC)
But has he not sucked for the past month
June 29th, 201212:24 pm
I mean even if a pitcher has 0 chance of staying in a game and actually receiving a save, he still blew the opportunity for someone else.
June 29th, 201212:27 pm
“I mean even if a pitcher has 0 chance of staying in a game and actually receiving a save, he still blew the opportunity for someone else.”
Ok, so he gets nothing or a Scarlet Letter? Nice, that is just as silly.
But he couldn’t get a save, so to get a blown save is dumb. Just call it a blown hold. He gets a hold or a blown hold. The last guy gets a save or a blown save. Not that hard.
June 29th, 201212:28 pm
The save situation is irrespective of the player on the mound save for Rule 3.c. It is a situation in the game. It is defined in the rule books as: if there is at least an inning left in the game, the lead is 3 runs or less, and/or the tying run is at most the second batter the pitcher faces. The pitcher enters in a save situation and is charged with preserving that save situation. If said pitcher preserves the situation until the conclusion of the game, he is rewarded a “Save.” If said pitcher preserves the situation for another pitcher he is awarded a “Hold.” If a pitcher fails to preserve the situation he is awarded a “Blown Save.”
Truly this is one of the simplest rules in the book. Controversial only when it comes to bullpen management. You, MFin, are the first person I’ve ever heard of who cannot comprehend it, in any language. Kudos to you.
June 29th, 201212:31 pm
The Braves continue their hunt for what one exec categorized as “an impact starting pitcher” — but not necessarily the usual suspects. Their customary M.O. is not to shop for rent-a-players. So it makes sense that one starter they’ve scouted extensively is Seattle’s Jason Vargas, who can’t be a free agent until after next season. – Jayson Stark
“Truly this is one of the simplest rules in the book”
No it isn’t. It is probably the most convoluted rules in the book. And it really doesn’t make sense to give a guy a blown save when he isn’t going to get a save. Makes much more sense to give a guy a save who is pitching in the last inning of a game, an inning in which culminates with a blown save or a save.
Waffle House or Bust
June 29th, 201212:32 pm
Predictions for this weekend….
1. Fredi messes with the lineup again.
2. Braves lose two of three to Nats.
3. Someone blogs it’s still early in the season.
June 29th, 201212:34 pm
The Braves continue their hunt for what one exec categorized as “an impact starting pitcher” …So it makes sense that one starter they’ve scouted extensively is Seattle’s Jason Vargas, who can’t be a free agent until after next season.
The term “impact starting pitcher” is very loose these days.
MFin is definitely not a number two hitter.
June 29th, 201212:35 pm
The save situation is irrespective of the player on the mound save for Rule 3.c. It is a situation in the game.
June 29th, 201212:36 pm
And it really doesn’t make sense to give a guy a blown save [situation] when he isn’t [in a save situation].
Makes much more sense to give a guy a save who is pitching in the last inning of a game,
Despite the fact that this is decidedly not what the rule states. Kudos to you MFin. Kudos.
June 29th, 201212:37 pm
An old friend of mine in Fla,who was a brick mason had a name for people like this guy.
10paul The term “impact starting pitcher” is very loose these days.
was thinking the same thing.
“The Braves continue their hunt for what one exec categorized as “an impact starting pitcher” — but not necessarily the usual suspects.”
Let me clear this up in English, if you want German ask someone else…;)
We are basically going shopping in the bargain bin for a starter. Really won’t be an impact guy. Very similar impact to Derrek Lee, Rick Ankiel, Kyle Farnsworth, Casey Kotchman, Nate McLouth. Heck maybe even as good as a Juan Francisco, Troy Glaus type.
June 29th, 201212:39 pm
“MFin is definitely not a number two hitter.”
More of a leadoff guy.
June 29th, 201212:40 pm
Maybe, by “impact starting pitcher”, they are meaning for “non” or “negative” or “very little’ to be placed in front.
June 29th, 201212:41 pm
Do the Braves honestly think they can get an impact starter without giving up anything of value? Like somehow they are the smartest team in baseball and will always find the diamond in the cheap rough?
June 29th, 201212:42 pm
Jason Vargas? Hell no. Look at his numbers in his career including this year. My God … you thought Minor is homerun prone. He’s one shy already of giving up his career high in homers, 22. No thanks.
Just getting tired of folks dissing on Uggla so much, realizing that he is an incredibly streaky hitter. All your complaining isn’t going to help him get out of the slump.
June 29th, 201212:43 pm
Not so sure we actually need an “impact pitcher” right now. We have a number one and number two in Hudson and Hanson – a number three if Jurrjens is truly back – at least most of the way and Minor/ Delgado, while somewhat inconsistent are going to cover either the number four or number five slot.
So what do we really need? Likely a bottom of rotation pitcher with consistency and experience – if that much.
June 29th, 201212:45 pm
MFin Very similar impact to Derrek Lee, Rick Ankiel, Kyle Farnsworth,
sadly, ankiel and farsworth had a game winning homer and save, respectively in the only playoff win for the braves in the last 6 years. if we get that kind of impact, itll be a good thing!
June 29th, 201212:47 pm
Wayne, common now…it terms of the pecking order, Uggla has received nowhere near the criticism as Heyward, Chipper, McCann, JJ, Minor, Delgado, Pastornicky, Hanson, Diaz, Francisco, Wilson.
June 29th, 201212:48 pm
Likely a bottom of rotation pitcher with consistency and experience – if that much.
Since we are still paying him, sounds alot like Derrick Lowe.
June 29th, 201212:49 pm
Don’t get yer hopes up for a Greinke-type acquisition, me hearties. Arrrr, ’tis going to be a scalleywag or scurveydog. Yarrrrrr.
Yo ho, yo ho, the pirates’ a life for me, har har.
Holy moly I’m bored.
June 29th, 201212:51 pm
that interview with huddy really shows the value of a veteran starting pitcher. we are lucky to have tim hudson on the staff.
Ease – OH! The Irony of it all.
Lil’ pirate, then maybe you need to go look for some booty.
“Just getting tired of folks dissing on Uggla so much, realizing that he is an incredibly streaky hitter. ”
I haven’t seen too many people dissing him, but I get what you mean.
DAP – Yeh, I’m not sure one or two games is an impact player though. Ankiel won a game in SF and a game at Wrigley, but who knows how many those two guys lost by being so terrible. Probably more negative than positive overall. Definitely not a positive impact.
I really do like Ankiel though, the arm, the pitcher hitter thing, cool story. Similar thing with Francouer. But overall, not so much…
June 29th, 201212:53 pm
I hadn’t intended a double post but it certainly would be ironic enough to bear repeating.
June 29th, 201212:54 pm
DOB—I hadn’t heard of, much less heard, Elizabeth Cook until you posted that earlier link. After watching her sing, and viewing her appearance on Letterman, I can’t believe my ignorance. Can’t wait to start digging around for her on the web. Thanks for the tip…
June 29th, 201212:55 pm
All this talk about the save rule…
Who cares. Let’s win the damn games.
Probably the reason we lost last night is our refusal to fire any coaches since Parrish was booted last fall….oh, and the growing heat wave underway…
June 29th, 201212:58 pm
Irony personified: Braves deal a low level prospect to Cleveland for Derek Lowe. Cleveland sends 2.5 million to cover their portion of his second half salary.
June 29th, 20121:00 pm
MFin04 who knows how many those two guys lost by being so terrible. Probably more negative than positive overall.
yeah probably. i think their impact on our playoff win is ironic.
Don’t even bother, Wren. If Vargas and his ilk is all then just trade what you would for that for a late inning RP and/or a bench bat. Don’t waste your time. Vargas sucks.
June 29th, 20121:04 pm
Not sure why they don’t just consider using the best 2 out of 3 of Delgado, Minor, and Teheran. Or use Medlen as a starter and go get a reliever. Should be a lot of cheap relievers out there.
Lew, and then if/when Hudson and/or Hanson fade down the stretch that bottom rotation guy Wren got us looks like a big strikeout on his part when he had the chance to land a much better starter.
June 29th, 20121:07 pm
If you’re going to make a trade, MAKE A TRADE. That is if you’re looking to get serious for that late season run into the playoffs.
When you are cheap you can’t really be all that choosey.
June 29th, 20121:11 pm
And JJ is far from “back”. I like him, but one great start and one average start doesn’t have me a true believer. He even lost his cool last night and it cost him and us. Well and the 26 men we left stranded.
June 29th, 20121:12 pm
Jurrjens is easily 2-0 if he gets the run support Hudson and Hanson got the two previous days. Not sure what happened to the offense last night, I guess it is just baseball.
June 29th, 20121:13 pm
I don’t doubt the Braves will get a bottom of the pack mediocre starter and when push comes to shove, we will finish a couple of games out of the WC play in game.
Just enough to sort of matter but not good enough to accomplish anything.
This team has the look of an 85 win team. I think it will take 87 or 88 to get one of the WC spots.
Oh well, there is always 2013 and later.
June 29th, 20121:14 pm
Now go and tell all the naysayers during game time this……………..
“When you are cheap you can’t really be all that choosey.”
How true and real. Oh well.
June 29th, 20121:15 pm
Y’all can’t really think the Braves are gonna sign Greinke, can you?
June 29th, 20121:16 pm
saves and blown saves are just not all that hard to understand. It ain’t rocket surgery….
And the Braves are cheap.
June 29th, 20121:17 pm
DS1- Gotta be crazy to tell people in game stuff like that.
It is like telling some of the ladies on here that McCann is fat. Just doesn’t sink in.
Love me some Mavis Staples, by the way. Caught her live at Jazz Fest in NOLA.
“Probably the reason we lost last night is our refusal to fire any coaches since Parrish was booted last fall….oh, and the growing heat wave underway…”
We lost last night because their pen stepped up and got the job done, clutch pitching with men on base. They were the better team.
And Kimbrell was human, that was gonna happen.
Got to do better vs te Nats, whom I think are the best team in the league and with no real great tem in the NL, if I were betting I’d put a wager on them to go to the series if the post season started now.
They are the better team. Philly is not out of it either. They are still a factor.
June 29th, 20121:18 pm
nolie – No one had trouble understanding them, just a lot of disagreement on the degree of stupidity of the rule.
I’m calling them more of an 89-91 win team at this point, unless a lot of things go right (or wrong).
To get to 90 W’s, we have to play only .575 ball from here on out. Entirely doable.
June 29th, 20121:19 pm
not sure how the rule is stupid.
June 29th, 20121:22 pm
And what is so hard for some Braves fans to understand that even the best of the best teams lose from time to time. The Yankees for crying out loud lost last night! What a frickin travesty!
There is no excuse. How can the Yankees lose a game as important as last night’s game was??? That would have put them another game up on Baltimore!
Totally unacceptable (doing my best Bitchell impersonation)
Maybe if I keep stomping and screaming the message will get to the Braves’ front office? Maybe they realize a Vargas is really a waste of time. Come on!
June 29th, 20121:23 pm
did anybody read the post at 1:339 about pitcher’s health? hard to believe
A study by Jeff Zimmerman in 2010 determined that during the previous decade, any starter who had pitched at least 120 innings in one season had a 41 percent chance of hitting the DL the following year. From 2005-2011, an average of just less than 11 Tommy John surgeries were performed through June, according to data collected by BP injury authority Corey Dawkins. This year, the count is already up to 23, with pitchers like Jose Contreras, Felipe Paulino and Daniel Hudson likely to add to the total in the coming weeks.
June 29th, 20121:24 pm
The rule is pretty straight forward and easy enough to understand.
What I don’t like is how major league managers seem to play to the rule more often than not. I’d be a heckuva lot more likely to use my best guy in the 7th or 8th if it was a critical time for the team. Why blow the save early with a lesser pitcher?
Now, I do understand the idea of having the closer for the end of the game, but not 100% of the time.
June 29th, 20121:25 pm
I don’t think they are listening………
“To get to 90 W’s, we have to play only .575 ball from here on out. Entirely doable.”
Oh no, please none of that talk. I remember when we had to play like .250 ball to win the Wild Card…
June 29th, 20121:29 pm
lotta reasons for that DS!, including but not limited to CYA. I agree that they are too rigid at times, but there is no way to know who will succeed or fail B4hand, some complaining is really pretty much a hindsight thingy IMO
Perfect reason to stay away from big buck, long term pitching contracts. Pitchers are so fragile. Excellent reason to hang onto as many of our pitching prospects as possible too.
June 29th, 20121:30 pm
I hope that you are right DS1, though I respectfully disagree with you.
To be in that 89 to 91 or 92 game level, one of the bottom rotation pitchers will have to overachieve & given that both Randall and Minor are in their learning phase in the game, that is not likely.
Or, they have to trade for a cheap starter where they do not give up much and that guy goes on a surprising tear.
And most imperitively, we need the good Johnny Venters back and I do not think we get that this yr, maybe next yr.
I do see this nucleus of players possibly doing something special by 2014 and having a two or 3 yr window of opportunity if things break right. It depends, lots can happen.
By ‘14 I want to see what Delgado, Minor and Teheran can do. Should all be at least pretty good.
yup. pitchers is a buncha sissy wusses….
Oh yes, and Hanson should be hitting is real prime by 14 or 15, and we also will have Medelen.
June 29th, 20121:31 pm
Just win a good bit more of the games than we lose….
How bout that?
June 29th, 20121:32 pm
Hindsight is 20/20. Yeah, I get that one. But I do believe there is too much rigidity with some of these managers.
And we’ve created a bit of a pre-madonna syndrome I think with some of these closers.
I’m not sure what’s worse… MFin04 doing his best Dentz impersonation, or well over 2 hours of everyone trying to get through to him.
That being said…
MFin04, what do you want MLB to do? Change the blown-save, before the 9th, to a blown-hold?
June 29th, 20121:34 pm
Why waste years in the minors on pitchers before TJ?
Perform TJ surgery immediately after the draft on ALL of them, and then turn em loose in 16 months, most in the minors, some in the majors….
Simple enough solution.
June 29th, 20121:35 pm
Your statement doesn’t jive. If Delgado, Minor and Teheran are in their “learning phases” of pitching; then you’d think they would improve over time. And over time meaning over the course of the year.
Not a guarantee of course, but look at most young pitchers records. They tend to get better, or get released.
So if we expect them to get better (and I truly do with Minor and Delgado), then I’d expect their second half to be a bit better than the first half.
Unless they turn into the next JoJo!!! Then all bets are off.
June 29th, 20121:36 pm
You might be onto something there……………
“There is no excuse. How can the Yankees lose a game as important as last night’s game was??? That would have put them another game up on Baltimore!”
The difference there is that when push comes to shove you know that the NYY will be there. They do not win it all every yr but they are there and in the post season every single yr, every yr except one since the 6 division format.
NYY fans KNOW that their owners will do what is necessary to put the most competitive product on the field and that $$$$$$$$ is not the big issue. Yankee fans should be calm and enjoy the process of the season.
We do not have that anymore. Frank Wren shops at goodwill to put the team together, the Steinbrenners shop at Nieman Marcus.
So the season is not as much fun for those who are H bent on winning. I have accepted the Braves for what they are and have stopped being disappointed.
NY fans laugh at us and that is bothersome for anyone with some pride in their city and teams. That is how I see it.
June 29th, 20121:38 pm
Jason Vargas? No thanks. Nice #4/5 starter, but I’m not sure that’s what I’d look for.
Lee in S GA
I’m sure Bob Gibson would agree with this statment if it read “todays pitchers”..
June 29th, 20121:40 pm
DS1 — Delgado and Minor are likely to have their ups and downs, Randall has been better.
I do not think you can seriously count on them right now down a playoff race stretch. By next yr I hope we see big improvement from Minor. I think there will be improvement from Delgado.
Just do not think we have the horses right now. And as for Uggla, I have been a fan, still like him but man, I don;t know what to make of him now, he is not getting it done.
He deserves to be Booed but ATL fans are not like Philly fans. Nothing personal vs Dan, just hit again.
June 29th, 20121:41 pm
17 year old Dominican LHP Luis Marejo with another strong start for the GCL Braves today: 5 IP, 2 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB’s, 7 K’s
Overall on the season he’s got a 1/20 BB/K ratio through 15 innings. 3.00 ERA. Doesn’t turn 18 until October this year.
“I have accepted the Braves for what they are and have stopped being disappointed.”
Exactly, they can’t spend like the Phillies or Yankees. It is what it is. So you hope your young cheap guys, like Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Teheran, Delgado, can help you win…if not you’re screwed.
June 29th, 20121:42 pm
Not So Hot Sheet:
Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves: Teheran is battling Montgomery for the title of most disappointing Triple-A pitching prospect. The Braves have put out an APB for anyone who can start now that Brandon Beachy is on the shelf and Mike Minor is struggling. But Teheran has not been able to make a solid case for promotion. His 4.50 ERA for Gwinnett is nearly two runs worse than his 2.55 ERA for the G-Braves last year. Most importantly, Teheran isn’t getting the swings and misses you would expect for a pitcher with often-electric stuff. That was especially true last night when he gave up nine runs and 10 hits in 3 2/3 innings to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
June 29th, 20121:43 pm
Thanks to everybody!
June 29th, 20121:44 pm
NY fans laugh at us and that is bothersome for anyone with some pride in their city and teams. That is how I see it.
THIS IS WHY i cringe every time we are on national TV, Folks now laugh at ATL baseball.
June 29th, 20121:45 pm
Talk doesn’t get hitters out.
So far with Teheran, it’s mostly been talk….he’s this, he’s that.
June 29th, 20121:46 pm
Two clubs that have spoken with the Angels report they’re “desperate to get a bullpen piece, if it’s a really good bullpen piece.” And those clubs say the Angels are willing to dangle Peter Bourjos in the right deal.
If he’s not traded already, I could see the Braves going after Bourjos in CF to replace Bourn this offseason. He’s close to his equal defensively and if we can get a banger in LF like Josh Willingham, they could go light with the bat in CF.
You think the Yankees fans are OK with the fact they have had their azzes handed to them in the playoffs for a large part of the past 5 years? Are you kidding me? They are probably a heckuva lot more ticked in general than most ATL fans; BECAUSE they always have money to buy the championship, yet they still don’t win it every year.
And you and I have differing opinions on what’s acceptable and what’s not. I don’t like losing either, but I am a realist. If there ain’t no money to spend, there ain’t no money to spend. Why complain about something that will NOT change. Like hitting your head against a brick wall. All you get is bloody.
And Uggla. He will most definitely hit again. Because his name is Mr. Dan Uggla! He’s almost as tough as Chuck Norris………………… almost.
The laughter stops instantly when some asses get kicked.
Kick some asses, then, or expect to get laughed at.
I have zero complaint with getting laughed at for losing. Do something about it other than talk and whine.
June 29th, 20121:48 pm
“We’re the DODGERS — put that in all caps,” team president Stan Kasten said. “We’re supposed to be big. We intend to be big.”
Clayton Hershaw and Cole Hamels is going to make a fine 1-2 starting pitching duo.
June 29th, 20121:51 pm
People laugh at Atlanta baseball? I don’t think that’s true Georgie…there are about 10-15 franchises that would DIE to have the success we’ve had over the recent years.
George, somehow, someway you manage to suck the life out of everything that is Atlanta baseball. I have to ask man, why do you bother following the sport? Some people just can’t handle a sport as up and down as baseball is.
June 29th, 20121:53 pm
Re: George. Some folks just aren’t happy unless they can be miserable. (oxymaroon)
June 29th, 20121:54 pm
it terms of the pecking order, Uggla has received nowhere near the criticism as Heyward…
unless you are listing only players, Fredi has to be at top of this list hands down
I hear ya DS1…any Yankee fan I know is in shame for their money spent vs expectations.
June 29th, 20121:56 pm
“I can only imagine what [Mike Trout and Bryce Harper will] be five, six, seven years from now, as they start to mature and learn the league. If they stay healthy, we’re talking about guys who can be in the same category as an Albert or a Chipper.”
June 29th, 20121:59 pm
TennesseePaul, was hoping for a “reasonable expectations” quote…….
Sutton prefers to wear, and on many occasions has worn a suit and tie while on the air for Fox Sports Arizona, while the Diamondbacks organization prefers — actually mandates — the broadcast crew to wear polo shirts featuring the team’s logo.
So yes, the Diamondbacks obviously don’t prefer a sharp dressed man in their booth, and they don’t love Daron Sutton’s suits, either.
Apparently the differing opinions over what constitutes a professional appearance has been a point of contention between the two sides for most of Sutton’s six years in the Arizona booth, and the powers that be finally decided to put their foot down after Sutton made what Piecoro termed as a “veiled reference” to the dress code during the June 20 broadcast. Sutton was nowhere to be found for the June 22 broadcast against the Chicago Cubs, and hasn’t been seen or heard from on a broadcast since.
June 29th, 20122:01 pm
I’m sick of the incompetence of the BRAVES. I need to find a team that wins all their games and has no BUMBS on their roster, and a manager that is smart, unlike FREDI. Can anyone help me find this team?
June 29th, 20122:03 pm
He’s close to his equal defensively and if we can get a banger in LF like Josh Willingham, they could go light with the bat in CF.
That’s exceedingly light in CF.
Some people with tiny brains don’t ever seem to understand the concept of you damn well better do what the boss tells you to do….
What an idiot that Sutton clearly is….unless he’s independently wealthy.
June 29th, 20122:06 pm
About as light as it gets. But he can run…..
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