2:52 pm June 28, 2012, by David O'Brien
June 29th, 201211:32 am
What is his on base, .305?
.340. It’s posted on this very same page.
(Rob from SC)
Because to win in the playoffs you need an ace
Rob from SC – A UGA running back got arrested with a gun.
Ha!, Except my response was pushed to the next page.
So, it is posted on the previous page.
MFin04 Guys are getting blown saves in situations where they couldn’t get a save. That is a fact.
no. its 100% false. EOF comes in the 8th with a 3 run lead, its IS a save situation, whether you like it or not. he has to pitch 2 innings to get the save, it doesnt matter if fredi intends to use him to pitch 2 or not.
June 29th, 201211:33 am
Greinke has enough baggage to be very concerned, several mediocre seasons and emotional issues on top of that. No to Greinke.
June 29th, 201211:34 am
Guys are getting blown saves in situations where they couldn’t get a save. That is a fact.
That’s logically impossible. One is not award a blown save unless one is in a save situation.
College Football Players seem to feel entitled
June 29th, 201211:35 am
Brick wall time. Where’s Soph?
DAP – You’re correct, but I can see MF in 04’s point – the way bullpens are utilized these days, it’s not often you’ll really get a save opportunity coming in earlier than the ninth.
June 29th, 201211:36 am
“EOF comes in the 8th with a 3 run lead, its IS a save situation,”
No it isn’t. It only becomes possible to get a save if he pitches in the 9th, if he never gets into the 9th, then it really wasn’t a save situation.
“College Football Players seem to feel entitled”
Yes they do. I’m about sick & tired of thugs in sports.
Sick of it.
Venters is 0 fro 2 in save opportunities
EOF is 0 for 3 in save opportunities.
Kimbrel is 22 for 23 in save opportunities
Hernandez was 1 for 1 in save opportunities
Martinez is 1 for one in save opportunities.
Medlen is 1 for 2 in save opportunities.
EOF hardly leads the league.
45th anniversary today, guess I better be nice to wife. See you guys.
Rob – Yeah, but they’re still pretty young and kids in their late teens and early 20’s are not notorious for using good sense.
June 29th, 201211:37 am
Rob, I don’t think there is one specific way to win in the playoffs.
“If you’re arguing about what it is, you’re flat out wrong on most of your points.”
Nope, I’ve been right in most of them. Guys are getting blown saves in situations where they couldn’t get a save. That is a fact. EOF is 0 for 3 in save situations, yet has had 0 save opportunities. That to me is stupid. _ MFin04
How many “holds ” does he have?
If we get a window to sign Greinke, then is he worth Teheran?
No. The deal is going to be for Greinke. If there is a window, I’d imagine the only part of it that would be “sweetened” would be the secondary player involved in the deal. Example, if Polished is the main player then the secondary player goes from being (again an example) Tony Pena, Jr. to a Joey Terdoslavich or something of that nature.
“One is not award(ed) a blown save unless one is in a save situation.”
Not true. You can get a blown save in an INNING in which you can’t get a save.
June 29th, 201211:38 am
Congratulations CB – Hope you have a great anniversary and glad that your Wife is doing better and can enjoy it.
“How many “holds ” does he have?”
Better question, how many “blown holds” does he have?
Is it just me or is everyone about sick of seeing defecting Cuban players become millionaires 42 times over. Really Dodgers. Really????
Rock on……everyone should have to go through the same draft process to play in the MLB. Totally unfair to all prospects coming through the ranks. 42 million my arse!
June 29th, 201211:39 am
lew, perhaps the rule book could be amended. but he isnt arguing what ought, hes arguing what is.
June 29th, 201211:40 am
Earlier in Spring Training Mark Bowman said there was concern how Delgado or Teheran would handle going back to AAA. I wonder if that explains some of Teheran’s struggles.
Happy anniversary to you and your wife, CB. A gift from me to you both -
Special edition from spring training.
Apparently some scouts say he is only worth 500,000
June 29th, 201211:41 am
No it isn’t. It only becomes possible to get a save if he pitches in the 9th, if he never gets into the 9th, then it really wasn’t a save situation.
Remember when DOB tweeted this place was unintentionally hilarious the other day? This is why
MFin04 You can get a blown save in an INNING in which you can’t get a save.
check the rules. a save situation is not confined to an inning.
June 29th, 201211:42 am
Example, if Polished is the main player then the secondary player goes from being (again an example) Tony Pena, Jr. to a Joey Terdoslavich or something of that nature.
Polished and Terdoslavich for 2 months of Zack Greinke? Where do I sign?
I’m just not overly impressed with the possibility of a Grienke deal. He’ll be excessively expensive both in what it would cost to obtain him and in extending his contract. He’s had ONE exceptional season and really not (to my way of thinking) consistently a top line pitcher and certainly noty worth relinquishing six years of Teheran at reasonable prices.
Teheran’s – as Efrim mentioned – is still really young and hardly been a bust to this point. Given the Braves seeming payroll limitations going forward, Grienke is too expensive and inconsistent to make that big a push for.
June 29th, 201211:43 am
“a save situation is not confined to an inning.”
Check the rules…a SAVE is confined to an inning. And it certainly isn’t the 7th or 8th inning.
This is so utterly ridiculous that you can’t grasp this rule. It has nothing really to do with the 9th. It has everything to do with being the last pitcher. One can get a save if the game goes to extra innings.
In fact, in all your ranting, Kimbrel could come in, in the 9th, and blow the save, resulting in an extra inning game. Braves regain the lead in which EOF comes in the next inning with a lead of 3 runs or less (a save situation)… he could then blow it and the Braves regain the lead and Venters could come in the next inning with a lead of 3 runs or less (a save situation) blow it… Braves regain the lead, Durbin comes in the next inning and qualifies for a save and gets the save.
Every time a pitcher enters a game in a save situation and blows the save, he has blown a save and is award a blown save because he was in a save situation in which he blew the save.
I wonder if that explains some of Teheran’s struggles
Fastball command and his inconsistent breaking ball is the reason for his struggles. That and the fact that he was born in January of 1991 and is 21.5 years old.
June 29th, 201211:44 am
June 29th, 201211:46 am
Better question, how many “blown holds” does he have?
An equal number to “blown saves” if you prefer.
June 29th, 201211:47 am
Tell your wife she’s got a good squirrel!
lew, im not sure greinke is the guy for us. i cant help but wonder if he is just too much of a head case to be worth ace money.
June 29th, 201211:48 am
Teheran’s – as Efrim mentioned – is still really young and hardly been a bust to this point.
If he’s still in the organization, he’ll get his shot in April of 2013. I hope we use the same “keep running him ou there” mantra for him if he is inconsistent. I’d like to see 10-15 starts for the kid.
“Every time a pitcher enters a game in a save situation and blows the save, he has blown a save and is award a blown save because he was in a save situation in which he blew the save.”
But he can’t get a save in the 7th or 8th inning….but he can get a blown save. Which is the whole discussion. And I already excluded extra innings if you were paying attention, which you obviously weren’t.
In extra innings and the 9th inning, he can get both a save and a blown save. But that isn’t the discussion. We are talking about getting blown saves in innings in which you can’t get a save, making the whole thing ridiculous.
June 29th, 201211:49 am
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: .
- (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
- (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces; or
- (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.
Sections 3.a, 3.b and 3.c prove that it is not confined to an inning. The pitcher must finish the game to get the save, but a save situation is defined as: A game with a lead of no more than three runs and at least an inning left… or a game were the tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces….
or he pitches effectively for at least the final three innings of a game.
Wow – it’s not really that hard…
Garza is not an upgrade either unless we get him on the cheap
Have not heard of him being a head case last couple of years in KC nor in Milwaukee, so maybe it is behind him.
If anything, biggest story out of the Grienke household was how is wife, Emily Kuchar, had terrible seats for the playoffs last year.
June 29th, 201211:50 am
Next year, instead of brick walls, I’m going to distribute stupid slaps. Buy 1 get 1 free.
June 29th, 201211:51 am
MFin is quickly becoming one of my least favorite people on here. Whether it’s trashing every guy in the rotation not named JJ or debating something that is very clearly stated in the MLB rule book, it’s like a broken record of retardedness. Blah blah blah blah blah.
You’re like the high school dropout version of Shaun sometimes. Give it a rest.
If we had dumped Smoltz for being a headcase, then we probably wouldn’t have his number mounted in left field.
Freeman has actually hit RHP pretty well this year, but like Heyward, has struggled vs. LHP: .207/.260/.315
.291/.335/.517 vs. RHP
June 29th, 201211:52 am
But he can’t get a save in the 7th or 8th inning….but he can get a blown save. Which is the whole discussion.
It is a save situation in the 7th, or 8th innings. If the pitcher gives up the lead in a save situation he is said to have “blown the save.” If a pitcher comes out before the game is over, the save situation is “held”, he is awarded a “hold.” The next pitcher comes into a game in a save situation…
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
June 29th, 201211:53 am
jeffrey d I didn’t realize Freddie was hitting over .300 over the past 2 weeks +
Nor did Fredi G., either, apparently…
A mental disorder does not make somebody a head case.
Y’all have gone overboard on saves and blown saves.
What I want to know is if an outfielder loses the ball in the sun, is it an error?
June 29th, 201211:54 am
Ohhh, that would be fun!
June 29th, 201211:55 am
TennesseePaul – The problem is, is that he wasn’t in to save the game. I’m perfectly ok with the idea of blown holds, makes a lot of sense actually. But the only way he can get a save is by pitching the 9th, which he didn’t pitch in, therefore he could never get a save. So to allow the guy to get a blown save or not get a blown save, when he had no chance to get a save is silly.
I have to agree. I’ve seen way too many people making light of anxiety disorders. That’s serious stuff, and not fun to battle through. I’ve seen it first hand with my best friend.
June 29th, 201211:56 am
Q&A with Tim Hudson on how his repertoire of pitches has changed as he has aged.
June 29th, 201211:57 am
My problem with signing Grienke has nothing to do with his mental makeup, but the fact that since his excellent 09 season, his ERA has risen considerably, as has his H/9, BB/9, HR/9 (incrementally), his WHIP has risen (though still fairly decent), and his KtoBB ration has declined, yet he’ll command Ace pay – and I don’t think he’s worth it – either in what his rental would cost us or what the price for a multi year deal would cost.
Too many other openings that will need to be filled next year that will be more important to fill than pitching will be.
when he had no chance to get a save is silly.
Many rules in baseball are silly and seemingly arbitrary. The ones surrounding wins or rbi for example.
June 29th, 201211:58 am
Freeman is a 5 hole hitter. Keep Mac 3rd.
But the only way he can get a save is by pitching the 9th, which he didn’t pitch in, therefore he could never get a save.
June 29th, 201211:59 am
Grienke doesn’t really strike me as a dominant pitcher. Not in a big market, or with the season on the line. And it is a little worrisome to have a guy with anxiety pitching for you in big games.
June 29th, 201212:00 pm
Whoa, Josh Harvey-Clemons was in the car with Crowell.
Again….sign Prado now. He’s our 3rd baseman. They only offered him a 1 yr deal and that stinks. Martin is HUGE for this team..he could be an AllStar at multiple positions! Better lock him up!
Does anyone else picture MFin04 sitting around with a couple of buddies toking up and saying “watch this”?
rob from sc Garza is not an upgrade either unless we get him on the cheap
call me crazy, but i like garza a little more. but i dont think id want to trade what it would take to get him.
is that what grienke’s thing is? i didnt know. getting him would be akin to getting a guy with injury history. just have to weigh the risk.
June 29th, 201212:01 pm
My problem with signing Grienke has nothing to do with his mental makeup, but the fact that since his excellent 09 season…
Exactly. Enough with the anxiety or OCD stuff. Again, people battle through it and some can come out of it…..some can’t. Tough to know for certain, but Joey Votto is one player that seems fine now.
“MFin is quickly becoming one of my least favorite people on here. Whether it’s trashing every guy in the rotation not named JJ or debating something that is very clearly stated in the MLB rule book, it’s like a broken record of retardedness. Blah blah blah blah blah.
You’re like the high school dropout version of Shaun sometimes. Give it a rest.”
MFin04: Give it a rest already. I didn’t know of that rule before (shows how much I know), but geez, I already understand it.
“Next year, instead of brick walls, I’m going to distribute stupid slaps. Buy 1 get 1 free.”
You mean like Rick James???
June 29th, 201212:03 pm
Grienke’s post-season numbers aren’t very flattering the 6.48 ERA, not to mention 3 more unearned runs to add to those numbers.
…and another thing….A 4 time AllStar pitcher who’s not on the “Radar” worked out for Braves “brass” yesterday…at GA Tech. Not a rumor but a fact!
June 29th, 201212:04 pm
The problem is, is that he wasn’t in to save the game.
He was in a save situation. If he had remained in the game he would have been awarded the save. If he blows the save situation, he is awarded a blown save, because (I’ll say this in German so maybe you’ll understand) er rettete das spiel. If he is removed from the game before it is complete and the lead remains he is award a “Hold” because (again in German for your clarity) er verhindert verliert die Führung.
June 29th, 201212:05 pm
“Does anyone else picture MFin04 sitting around with a couple of buddies toking up and saying “watch this”? ”
Lol. Is true. People will argue anything, even if at their core they agree that the rule is stupid and needs to be changed, but they continue to cite rules, which they clearly and logically don’t understand.
Not a rumor but a fact!
Prado still has a year of arbitration left. Not that big a hurry to lock him up – got the entire winter and all of next year to do it.
My problem with signing Grienke has nothing to do with his mental makeup, but the fact that since his excellent 09 season, his ERA has risen considerably, as has his H/9, BB/9, HR/9 (incrementally), his WHIP has risen (though still fairly decent), and his KtoBB ration has declined
Think you are nit-picking a bit here. Most players are going to see their stats worsen a bit after career years. Most of those stats you talked about are actually in line with 2009 this season. Last season he was hurt to start the season. And remember, he was on some really bad Royals teams.
I like the guy and think he would immediately be the best pitcher on the team if he were to join the Braves. Although I must admit he is one of those guys I just root for, so I’m sure I’m a little biased.
June 29th, 201212:06 pm
“If he had remained in the game he would have been awarded the save”
But he was never intended to save the game, or to stay in the game past the 7th or 8th inning.
June 29th, 201212:07 pm
June 29th, 201212:08 pm
I don’t really see Grienke solving any of the Braves problems, realistically they just need Delgado and Teheran to develop into what Hanson, Beachy and Jurrjen are becoming.
It would be a very short term fix at best. And may not work out in the playoffs.
June 29th, 201212:09 pm
But he was never intended to save the game,
That doesn’t matter, dude. Can you honestly not understand that?
Done!! For 3 weeks anyway.
If any of you Gwinnettians are looking for something to do this weekend, my band will be playing our first acoustic gig at Friends Sports Grill tonight at 7 and full band tomorrow at Fernando’s at 7:30 (both in Dacula).
June 29th, 201212:10 pm
Grienke’s post-season numbers aren’t very flattering the 6.48 ERA
In 3 starts…
Danga – I don’t know – going from an ERA in the low twos to the high threes is a bit more than worsening a bit.
Not that I think he’s a bad pitcher, but in a salary year like he is, he’s going to make a lot more than his peformance would net us, IMO. I really don’t see him as that much better than either Hanson or Hudson and I certainly would not give up six years of Teheran for the chance to sign Grienke for more than we’ll be abkle to afford.
I’d much rather do a deal for Willingham, lock up Bourn and Prado. In the long run, that would be money better spent than on Grienke.
June 29th, 201212:11 pm
Excellent piece on Tim Hudson, Danga. Thanks for posting.
June 29th, 201212:12 pm
Disappointing loss last night, should have been a win, should have been a sweep. KIMBREL just got careless, can’t blame this one on FREDI.
Efrim – Why doesn’t it matter? So can a guy get a blown save in the 6th inning?
June 29th, 201212:13 pm
Ja. Deshalb ist er für die erhaltung der sieg vergeben wird. Dennoch bleibt es wahr, dass er in einer gegebenen situation war. Würde er ruiniert, dass Situation würde es als solche bemerkt. Daher ein geblasen Speichern.
Congratulations CB! That is quite an accomplishment today! (we just surpassed 35 a few days back)
The loss is on Uggla
June 29th, 201212:14 pm
or should I say Mr. Whiff
June 29th, 201212:15 pm
Why the German?
June 29th, 201212:17 pm
“Ja. Deshalb ist er für die erhaltung der sieg vergeben wird. Dennoch bleibt es wahr, dass er in einer gegebenen situation war. Würde er ruiniert, dass Situation würde es als solche bemerkt. Daher ein geblasen Speic”
Precisely why it is stupid. If he isn’t put in the game for the save, he shouldn’t get a blown save. It is that simple. The rule is archaic and should be changed. No reason for guys to get blown saves, when they were never going to get saves in the first place. And even if they do their best and succeed they are judged on a different standard and get a hold.
George, I’m hoping it will help clear things up for MFin. Apparently clear and plain english isn’t enough.
Ok, I understand, just read your previous post.
June 29th, 201212:18 pm
His name is Mr. Dan Uggla, and when he starts to scorch the ball, I am going to be asking you to please refrain from talking about how you have always known he would eventually hit……..(taking down names now!)
I agree, a blown save should only be given in the 9th or extra innings
June 29th, 201212:19 pm
I’m sure he will hit again, but right now he sucks.
June 29th, 201212:20 pm
DS1 – Exactly. I don’t know why people are so upset with him. The guy was hitting .300 and getting on base at .400 for a long time this year, and those are not Dan Uggla like numbers. He was due for the .200 and .300 stretch to bring him back down to .250/.350.
I think they did the right thing and moved him down in the order, but I probably would just leave him in there. No real replacement worth it on the bench.
Unfortunately it didn’t help.
No reason for guys to get blown saves, when they were never going to get saves in the first place
More verbose so you can understand your statement: “No reason for guys to get [blown save situations] when they were [in a save situation].”
A pitcher enters a game in a save situation. He can either hold the save situation, blow the save situation, or sustain the save situation until the end of the game and be award the “save.”
June 29th, 201212:22 pm
Rob, you are on the list………..
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