1:45 pm June 24, 2012, by David O'Brien
June 24th, 201210:24 pm
nolie – the odds of any catcher in the braves organization approaching the numbers mac has put up the last 5-6 years on an annual basis over the next 10 years are also way long – and that includes mac
Mets manage to tie the Yankees, but at least they left the bases loaded…
June 24th, 201210:25 pm
damn that post will look out of context leading off a page mcfann – it aint what it looks like I SWEAR!!
once they get in anything can happen, as two different Cards teams have shown lately
True, but it doesn’t seem likely with this rotation as it is right now.
they’ll prolly pick up mac’s option, if he has another year like this one he is gone
If he struggles again next year, is he even tradeable, if the Braves decide they don’t want to re-sign him?
June 24th, 201210:26 pm
Kind of ridiculous how much Heap has been beat up here over the years.
June 24th, 201210:28 pm
Bethancourt is a better catcher right now than McCann defensively and I think Atlanta would let him develop offensively in an everyday role. Signing McCann to a long term deal makes no sense when you are blocking the best catching prospect in the NL.
June 24th, 201210:29 pm
Oh yes he would be tradable, and he might even be re-signed, but it would be for far less $$$ than he would like. Cuz if he keeps hitting like this (and right now, even as bad as he is, he is 12th in MLB catcher WAR) he would still be a top half catcher who would have more value than most alternatives.
June 24th, 201210:30 pm
Add Mac’s miserable day to these stats and Betancourt might easily approach them
.239 .313 .411 .725
June 24th, 201210:31 pm
he may be a better catcher defensively, but if he doesn’t learn to hit better, he would not be worth more than Mac, by a very good bit.
You know what they call a catcher with mad defensive skills, and no bat? a backup
June 24th, 201210:33 pm
.239 .313 .411 .725
If Bethancourt were hitting that now he might not be considered 4 or 5 years away.
Justin Verlander @JustinVerlander
Good news… We won! Bad news… I’m now 0 for 7 years at the plate. #maybenextyear
Resign Bourn, add a good LF or 3B bat this off-season, and with Heyward, Freeman, Uggla, Prado and Simmons… we don’t really have to have a slugger behind the plate. (just don’t need a non-slugging catcher batting 3rd, lol).
Braves have the best defense in the NL now, and will have a very good young pitching staff for years to come.
I’m not opposed to re-signing BMac (depending on how he performs the next 12 months), but I certainly don’t think it’s crucial that we do.
June 24th, 201210:37 pm
Here EVERYBODY!!!! this is an example of how lousy most catchers are in MLB these days.
From 2006 through last season ,(5 full seasons)
only eleven catchers had an average value of 2 or more WAR per season,
only four have hit 100 HR’s or more
only 6 have an avg over .280
only 5 have over 350 RBIs
only 6 have over 700 hits
only 6 have averaged over an .800 OPS
it’s really, really hard to find catchers who can hit
Look at Simmons and everyone was worried about his bat. How is that playing out. Bethancourt isn’t a poor offensive player by any means and I’m guessing we won’t miss McCann at catcher. Overall position I’m taking Bethancourt over Mac. Bet Wren will too when he sees how much it will take to sign him.
Pirates beat writer Dejan Kovacevic responded to a fan question yesterday that the Braves are after Kevin Correa. Pirates wouldn’t want much, more likely offense in exchange. Dodgers are the other team after Correa.
That shows Braves are going cheap on a trade because they know there is no way to win a Garza or a Dempster trade war. It will cost more than Frank Wren would be willing to trade away.
Man losing Brandon Beachy really hurts this teams chances this year. Ouch!
feel the need to defend my position since this has taken on a mac sucks tone
all I’m trying to point out is if you want to compare potential offensive production between him and bethancourt might be more releveant to think about projections as opposed to historicals.
when do catchers offensive numbers & ability to play 140 games a year generally start to decline 30/32/35?
June 24th, 201210:39 pm
Bethancourt has an under .600 OPS in AA, he isn’t either getting on base nor slugging at a .300 pace.
He is not going to make the big team for AT LEAST 2 years, and that would be a remarkable improvement in hitting in just 2 years. he is overmatched at the plate right now.
June 24th, 201210:40 pm
Correa? they get a Francisco, that’s it, and they pay his salary
June 24th, 201210:41 pm
depends on the player, some play pretty well until their late 30’s , some fall apart at age 32, some keep hitting, but lose their defensive skills earlier….
June 24th, 201210:44 pm
NickB yeah right. Correia isn’t that good at all, but there will be competition for his services believe it or not. Starting pitching is pretty thin this summer. They can and will do better than an out of shape out machine like Juan Francisco for Correia.
Kevin Correa if healthy would be an under the radar high upside deal. I wouldn’t mind him as a solid 3 or 4 starter. However, if he is the starter, than another bullpen arm is a must rather than a complimentary piece.
DOWN ON THE FARM
Once again the CHIEFS take the measure of the G-Men, this time 5-2.
Lead-off CF LUIS DURANGO [.281 BA] 2-4, 2 R, 1 SB .
SS JOSH WILSON [.248 BA] 2-4, 1 2B , 2 RBI .
LF FELIX PIE [.285 BA] 1-2, 2 BB.
1B CHRIS MARRERO [.244 BA] 1-3, 1 BB, 1 SO.
PH TYLER PASTORNICKY [.256 BA] 1-1.
LHS/RP JOSE LUGO [L 1-3, 4.24 ERA] 4.0 IP, 10 H, 4 R/ER, 4 BB, 5 SO.
RHRP BUDDY CARLYSLE [2.23 ERA] 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 HR, 1 R/ER, 0 BB, 4 SO.
RHRP CORY GEARRIN [1.34 ERA] 1.0 IP, no-hits, 2 BB, 1 SO.
June 24th, 201210:47 pm
Simmons made the jump and nobody projected him at SS this time last year. Sure Betancourt might be overmatched awhile but BMac is looking that way too. Guess we will see but no way Wren signs McCann long term so trade him if you can get a #1 starter. This team doesn’t have a bona fide #1 starter IMO.
Y’all are missing my point that McCann is declining offensively AND defensively at 26, 27, & 28. Today, he’s 28 and hitting .230 something. How’s he gonna be at 34? Who the hell declines at those ages? I really just thing we’ve seen the best McCann we ever will.
June 24th, 201210:51 pm
Last year mac was one of the league leaders in blocking pitches and 3rd or 4th in overall catcher defense EVEN WITH his lousy stolen base record……
he got a 1 WAR boost when fangraphs added blocking pitches to it’s catcher defensive ratings
June 24th, 201210:52 pm
Here is how I see things. Frank Wren doesn’t want to look like a fool bragging on and on about all this unbelievable young pitching he has and then turn around the following summer trading for a front liner. He just won’t do it. It is a pride thing. Think about it- he does have an image to uphold. Things will have to get really bad for this guy to bite the bullet and deal one of his “golden arms” for a front liner. And I do think Mike Minor falls in that category to him. He has said before he reminds him of a young Glavine.
I think it’s too soon to start making grandiose statements about any under 30 player that he is “done”….
June 24th, 201210:53 pm
whatever helps you sleep at night
Keylargo….exactly my point. He has enough value that we might be able to swing a great starter in a deal. If we wait he looks to be trending downward. What’s his value next year or after that? We won’t sign him long term so I say jettison him in a trade for our HUGE need in pitching.
June 24th, 201210:54 pm
It’s the duty of ANY GM to talk up his prospects, ANY GM who would say “oh that guy, he’s not gonna turn out to be much” should be fired on the spot
.255 .281 .275 .556 That’s Bethancourts line in AA. He should still be in high A
June 24th, 201210:55 pm
defensively I think he may be better – don’t think that will remain so over the next 10 years
offensively I think his eyes have been a problem he has battled and it has lead to a multitude of issues. I think his potential over the next 5 years is close to his career numbers we shall see how he actually performs
June 24th, 201210:56 pm
nice to hear a voice of reason!!!
June 24th, 201210:57 pm
heck prado was done last year…except he wasnt
I can understand the reasoning to a degree behind Wren holding onto the young arms, but there comes a time when you need to deal from a strength to improve the team. I mean dealing one (i.e. Minor) isn’t going to deplete what he has built up. Not all of them are guaranteed to make “big” and if he wants to put all his eggs in those baskets it could potential be all for naught.
So should deal from strength while he can and he can do it without depleting the system that he created.
hell yeah he should be in High A-that stands for Atlanta right
June 24th, 201210:58 pm
Here is the thing about McCann that i don’t think some of you understand. EVEN IF he signed for 5 years and hit .260/.330/.430 with 20 HR’s a year and 70 RBI’s a year, at his position, he would be an elite catcher, a to 5 or 6 catcher. He would probably exceed his value at even $15 million a year. Go look at the stats I put up above to see how bad catcher hitting is in the majority of MLB
June 24th, 201210:59 pm
bat – hoping this TS doesn’t end up like Georges…slow mover dumping tons of rain…bay minette got 30 inches
He shouldn’t let pride get in the way of making the team better.
Happy to assist, Nick
Yunel's Frosted Tip's
At least get McCann out of the 3 spot for now……….may be time to move Heyward back up in the order…..or a blind ass Freddie……
Beachy was Atlanta’s #1 pitcher hands down. Nobody is projecting Minor, Delgado, JJ, or Teheran as a #1 right now or in some cases ever. They might be golden arms down the road but the game is being played now. Gotta replace Beachy probably through the better part of 2013.
well the new Mythbusters is comin on, may be back in a bit
June 24th, 201211:00 pm
Debby is being a downer! *rimshot*
well crap it was a re run
June 24th, 201211:01 pm
You people do realize if we can sign a slugger at another position….then we can dump McCann and get someone cheaper who can play good defense and be a serviceable hitter while Bethancourt grows up…………
nick – I agree on a 5 year deal. But if an AL team is willing to offer 8 that gets me a bit concernced about matching it.
June 24th, 201211:03 pm
Bandits board and loot the BARONS today 8-2.
Lead-off RF KEENAN WILEY [.275 BA] 1-5, 1 2B , 3 RBI .
2B PHIL GOSSELIN [.258 BA] 1-4, 1 R, 1 BB.
3B JOEY T. [.355 BA] 3-5, 2 R, 2 2B , 1 RBI .
J-TERDO is regaining his eye at the plate. Been switched back to 3B too for the past five games.
LF TIM SMITH [.308 BA] 1-5, 1 2B , 1 RBI , 1 SO.
CF TODD CUNNINGHAM [.320 BA] 3-5, 2 R, 1 2B , 1 RBI , 1 SB .
C CHRISTIAN BETHANCOURT [.259 BA] 2-5, 1 CS .
SS JASON CHRISTIAN [.462 BA] 1-2, 1 R, 3 BB, 1 SO.
1B IAN GAC [2-4, 1 R, 1 RBI , 1 BB, 1 SO, 1 SB .
DH ALDEN CARRITHERS [.259 BA] 1-2, 1 R, 2 BB.
RHSP DAVID HALE [W 6-3, 3.81 ERA] 8.0 IP, 5 H, zeros, 0 BB, 6 SO. Great game today. Next time….???
RHRP BRETT CAMMONS [11.12 ERA] 1.0 IP, 2 H, 2 HR, 2 R/ER, 0 BB, 1 SO. BRAVES allowing CAMMONS plenty of rope to end his comeback from TJ.
Yeah, that’s what they have been talking about. Sitting there for several days, oh man.
I remember in 1994 a tropical storm moved inland and stalled in north Georgia, dumped something like 24 inches of rain and flooded the hell out of us in southwest Ga a few days later. Took years to rebuild.
June 24th, 201211:05 pm
looks like the upper level jet will keep it south of us…which isnt all good we could use a good soaking (not 2 feet of course)
June 24th, 201211:06 pm
if somebody offers him 8, more power to them….
IF THAT HAPPENED, I reckon the money would be put towards chasing a guy like Kurt Suzuki, or Geovany Soto who will both be free agents then…..
So, I still say offer a 5 yr deal, and if he turns it down, there are other options
Are you ready to point fingers?
1) Management – for “protecting” starting pitching in the minors and not letting them pitch deeper into games. Why do you think guys like Minor and Delgado look like All-Stars for the first couple of innings and then fall apart? It’s because they babied them. This will take YEARS to fix.
2) Leadership – this team has decided it is all about feelings, hugs and I’m Okay, You’re Okay. This team needs someone to get ticked off. There is no fire.
3) Fredi – He is a smart baseball guy but he is a librarian. He isn’t vocal enough with his team or the umpires.
rich – looks like the name change and offseason hasn’t helped brett…still where he was last year
hate to see that
The A Bomb
June 24th, 201211:07 pm
Gonzalez isn’t helping McCann at all by leaving him in the 3-hole.
Probably should look at Heyward there soon…..Still gives you lefty-right-lefty-righty-lefty-switch-lefty(Mac)-righty…. Of course the way he does lineups like Cox picked his nose nothing’s ever etched in stone.
June 24th, 201211:08 pm
saying Fredi is a smart baseball guy is like Saying Hitler knew a heck of a lot about charcoal
June 24th, 201211:09 pm
There is no way on gods green earth I would sign Heap for 8 years unless it was as a goodwill ambassador. Not to catch, no sir
AND if Simmons can prove to be a hitter that does take some pressure off the Mac decision down the line because Bethancourt probably won’t come close. Still will need a power guy to replace him, but not necessarily a catcher.
June 24th, 201211:11 pm
thanx for the stats man!
btw, I think Bethancourt is a prime example of why Batting Avg is misleading, to someone who thinks it’s the best stat for determining hitting success, .259 doesn’t look so bad,but when you dig deeper and see that he barely gets on base above his batting avg and hits for zero power, his offensive problems become apparent
June 24th, 201211:12 pm
My ideal lineup would be and it’s contingent of course …
It would be contingent on getting Freeman going again and Uggla and McCann as well.
I actually liked last years lineup when McCann was on the DL, but Fredi messed it up when he got back and that was Freeman in the 3 hole and Uggla at cleanup. If it could go back to that, I’d put it …
June 24th, 201211:15 pm
One thing is certain- the Bravos have no choice but to trade for a starting pitcher. With Beachy out and not knowing what they’re going to get from three of their five starters (Delgado, Minor and Jurrjens), they’ve got to have at least three reliable starters. I think Medlen now has to be retained in the bullpen, particularly after getting rid of Hernandez. A bat (bench) and another arm in the bullpen would also be handy.
PELICANS feast on the chum that were the HILLCATS 5-1.
RHSP GUS SCHLOSSER [L 8-4, 3.91 ERA] 6.0 IP, 6 H, 1 HR, 5 R, 4 ER, 0 BB, 4 SO.
LHRP BLAINE SIMS [4.54 ERA] 2.0 IP, 1 H, zeros, 2 BB, 1 SO.
LHRP MATT CHAFFEE [4.10 ERA] 1.0 IP, pristine, 2 SO.
Lead-off CF MYC JONES [.248 BA] 1-4, 1 SO.
2B TOMMY LaSTELLA [.265 BA] 1-4.
3B ED SALCEDO [.262 BA] 1-4, 1 E [19, throwing].
1B MATT WEAVER [.248 BA] 1-3, 1 SO.
Tiger – I saw a pair of jerseys you’re going to have to get today. Father and his 4 year old have identical jerseys with the same number and where the name goes was “father” and “son”.
June 24th, 201211:18 pm
lineup I would use right now would be
June 24th, 2012
“….rich – looks like the name change and offseason hasn’t helped brett…still where he was last year
hate to see that….”
Yeah, me too. Looks like we lost a real up and coming reliefer to TJ. I guess the procedure is not infallible after all.
June 24th, 201211:20 pm
June 24th, 2012
Yeah, that’s what they have been talking about. Sitting there for several days, oh man.
that sucker stalled pretty much over central Georgia. The nightmare that followed included 18 days without water and incredible destruction, including what Bat describes. Not a good time. We could use the rain up here, so i wish the dang storm would head north and just keep going, wetting things good without harming much of anything. Oh well, who knows with these things.
Good nitr all.
June 24th, 201211:21 pm
No problem man. Glad to do it.
June 24th, 201211:22 pm
yeah saw that as well…pretty sweet
wonder how my DL jinx would apply to me and little tiger though?
June 24th, 201211:23 pm
I looked at Correia’s numbers this year and his career … uh, no thanks. Talk about the definition of a #4-5 starter. What would be the point? Delgado and Minor basically give you the same and you don’t trade a thing for them. Wren ain’t after this guy, surely. If he is going to go for a SP, make it count.
June 24th, 201211:25 pm
so people are talking of trading McCann again. I still think that McCann is a cornerstone of this franchise and will be resigned long term, but with his looming free agency in just over 1 year and a well thought of prospect in the wings, it is something to at least consider.
What if the Angels decided they needed an upgrade at C and the Braves could obtain Peter Bourjos, Ervin Santan and a prospect for McCann. OK then I wake up but ………..
June 24th, 201211:27 pm
Only way I’d trade McCann is to an AL team. Don’t want him to haunt Braves in the NL.
looks like weather is north of nolie now…wonder how long til his intraweb connection drys out
word is that that Pirates will pretty much take anything cuz they need the roster spot for people coming off the dl and such…… low cost high reward, not gonna kill us kinda deal…sounds very Bravey to me
June 24th, 201211:28 pm
looks like the Braves are paying the price of a few subpar drafts in the lower minors. The Rome Braves have been terrible this year. High A has also been a struggle. Seems like the Braves had a much better and deeper draft this year
Correia’s ERA screams average to me, but he has also given up 12 homeruns in 78 IP. He’s giving up like a hit per inning … just no. The guy is not what we need.
June 24th, 201211:29 pm
if the Braves got Correa it will be for minimal cost in terms of prospect and with the idea that he goes to the pen and Medlen starts
June 24th, 201211:30 pm
CTB – looks like one of those situations that just because you can obtain the guy easily doesn’t mean you should. So we could be Correia easily, doesn’t mean we should
I bet the new draft system is gonna lead to more high schoolers going to college, as they have lost their leverage as far as signability is concerned. Teams can’t go wayyy over slot as they could get fined and/or lose draft picks. Draft may start to become very college heavy in the future (and if I was a GM I’d be a college heavy drafter anyway, let the schools handle the player development)
June 24th, 201211:31 pm
Safest place to be when a storm comes along? Wherever they send Jim Cantore
I know that was kinda random, but it just popped in my head when someone mentioned the draft
June 24th, 201211:32 pm
in Wren’s defense, it is easily to sit here and make/propse bold moves on the blog. Much different to do so in reality. Much like playing cards somewhere with rented chips (like Dave and Busters used to do) – a lot easier to be bold on the betting when you don’t really have money on the line
when its sleepy time down south…
“Only way I’d trade McCann is to an AL team. Don’t want him to haunt Braves in the NL.”
Yuck, I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.
NickB, unfortunately, it does sound like a Brave kinda deal. But he is better than Minor, almost any starter is right now. Whatever, we have no control so it is what it is I rekon
June 24th, 201211:33 pm
In the last 10 games the Braves have lost 1/2 a game to the Mets, stayed even with the Nats and Phillies, and gained ground on Miami…(in no way is this intended as whatever Waffles For Brains accused me of last time I posted something which indicated that the season had not totally imploded)…
June 24th, 201211:34 pm
I don’t think Mac wants to leave Atlanta so a good offer would keep him here. Keeping Mac and Ross together makes a good situation that a lot of clubs would like to have.
if they get him for a bag of donuts and he sucks… it’s no big loss, if he pitches over his head, huge win!!
I see no real downside and a mild upside…. I reckon it’s worth a shot
June 24th, 201211:35 pm
NickB – my main concern with college development of the players involves 3 areas:
1. They abuse college arms. Rodon – best lefty in the NCAA and a freshman this past year. Against UNC in the ACC tourney threw 129 pitches. 129 pitches and it was obvious he was tiring.
2. Non-wood bats – BBCOR helps some versus old aluminum bats but still different than developing with wood bats
3. The manager’s job in college is to win games and graduate players. Developing players is secondary – helps with recruiting but still comes down to wins and losses. A minor league manager’s job is to develop the players first, win second.
June 24th, 201211:38 pm
3-3 while playing at Yankee Stadium and at Fenway is not the end of the world.
Seeing the weakness and inconsistency due to youth of our 4th/5th starters along with the slumps of our 2B, 3B, 1B, and C though is concerning
sure, but college players are usually ready to go in a year or two, three tops, scouts can see through the stuff like the bat difference and everything, good contact guys will stay good contact guys, good slugging guys may regress a bit, but will generally still hit HR’s.
I don’t mind hitting up the lower levels of the draft for High schoolers, and if there is a phenom in your lap, you take him, but as a general rule, I prefer college players in the upper draft levels.
I agree, but if McCann were to be traded, I’d rather not have to face him against another NL team.
June 24th, 201211:43 pm
I don’t know, one of those 5.2 home to first times would be fun to have Jason throw him out from RF at first by 10 feet or so.
June 24th, 201211:46 pm
That would be funny, but maybe during inter league that could happen lol.
On second thought I would sign Heap for ten years just to p*ss off, key.
June 24th, 201211:51 pm
I hate to say it, but I see a lot of Frenchy in Freeman…. neither walked enough, both swing at way too many pitches, let’s all hope the Freeman learns a bit more plate discipline (or that he is having his own sophomore slump)
June 24th, 201211:52 pm
kind of like basketball in the draft – college can really help weed out the Kwame Brown’s of the world. College baseball has come a long way.
Last year though I still think Dylan Bundy will be the best pitcher of that group instead of Bauer, etc.
June 24th, 201211:54 pm
nothing Frenchy about Freeman. Just needs to get back in his groove after the eye issue and the hand/finger injury
June 24th, 201211:55 pm
Man, the rooks and DSL grads break out the whup’ azz on hapless BRISTOL today. 12 runs and 14 hits and they win going away 12-1.
2012 19th round Lead-off 2B LEVI HYAMS [.200 BA] 1-4, 1 R, 1 HR , 2 RBI 2 BB, 1 SO.
2012 30th round 1B CASEY KALENKOSKI [.294 BA] 2-4, 1 R, 2 2B .
2012 26th round 3B TRENT MOSES [.294 BA] 2-5, 2 R, 2 2B , 1 RBI , 1 BB.
2008 DSL grad LF ED SANCHEZ [.273 BA] 1-6, 1 R, 1 2B , 1 RBI , 2 SO.
2012 5th rounder DH BLAKE BROWN [.174 BA] 1-5, 1 R, 1 BB, 2 SO.
2008 DSL grad RF FELIX MARTE [.462 BA] 3-5, 4 R, 1 2B , 1 HR , 2 RBI , 1 BB, 1 SB .
2011 19th round C TROY SNITKER [.250 BA] 1-4, 1 RBI , 2 BB, 1 SO.
2012 20th round SS ERIC GARCIA [.308 BA] 2-4, 1 R, 1 3B , 2 RBI , 2 BB, 1 SB .
2011 10th round CF LOGAN ROBBINS [.100 BA] 1-5. 1 R, 1 RBI , 1 BB, 2 SO.
2011 DSL grad RHSP MAURICIO CABRERA [2.25 ERA] 4.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R/ER, 2 BB, 2 SO.
2009 GCL grad RHRP CARLOS ‘Wild-thang’ PEREZ [6.75 ERA] 2.0 IP, 1 H, zeros, 1 BB, 5 SO.
Lights out, man! First time this season he’s done anything right. Gotta’ hand it to the BRAVES. Last time out, he was bucked off and trampled by the wild stallion. BRAVES put him right back up there in the saddle again.
RHRP ZACH JADOFSKY [0.00 ERA] 1.0 IP, pristine, 2 SO.
June 24th, 201211:57 pm
Oops, witching hour, and an early a.m. NYTOL!
McCann for Garza?
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