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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
175 comments Add your comment
b
June 21st, 2012
9:01 pm
nickb, what a blowhard to say Constanza does not belong on the roster.You obviously don’t know what the heck you are talking about. I’ve been AVIDLY following baseball for over fifty years; Constanza belongs on our roster over Francisco, but the management won’t do it to justify another one of Wrenn’s mistakes.
Delbert D.
June 21st, 2012
9:03 pm
NickB “changes in modern mechanics to facilitate higher mph without the high leg kick”
That’s a big one, IMHO. I like Kimbrel’s delivery.
cowdogit
June 21st, 2012
9:05 pm
The most important stat is wins- Clutch hitters product wins – Chipper never could hit top of the line pitchers – He made his stats on weak pitchers . Canstanza is the spark plug bring him back before the season is lost .
b
June 21st, 2012
9:05 pm
It wasn’t just stats, Jose helped the team win. If you didn’t notice that, then you weren’t paying attention to the little things. I honestly don’t see how you could have missed how he made the team better.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
9:14 pm
the little things eh? like not playing a better defense than prado or Heyward? like not even being able to bunt the runner over? like hitting .250 with only one double? like having a BB% of 0% and a K% of 25.0%?
no stolen bases in 2012 either
How exactly was he helping the team win again?
NickB
June 21st, 2012
9:15 pm
Somehow he sat on the bench and willed them to win via his massive cheerleading skills? if that’s the case, then give him some pom poms and throw him on the dugout roof
longtimefan
June 21st, 2012
9:49 pm
Read some knowledgeable baseball sites-Canstanza is not a MLB starter. Scouts that assess talent for a living have not thought he has the skills to play as everyday player. That is why he is 28 and not on a major league roster. Major league talent scouts are occasionally wrong, but not often. They know more about ML talent than all of us put together on this blog. If they thought he would help the team win, he would be playing. It’s a business.
dawg4u
June 21st, 2012
9:51 pm
When was the last time that someone in sports or come to think of it any other field admitted a mistake? I have to do it at least two or three times a day but you never hear about a politician or sports star or GM or owner admit to it. Has there ever been an unsuccessful surgery? Sorry but the scalpel slipped and we severed an artery and he or she may never be the same again! I’ve been getting the feeling for years that the media tells us what we want to hear unless it’s about a mistake or error in judgment.
dawg4u
June 21st, 2012
9:56 pm
I meant even if it’s about a mistake or error in judgment!
cowdogit
June 21st, 2012
9:57 pm
McDowell – Seven years no division titles – Mazzone – fourteen years – fourteen division titles . O K you stat nerds explain why McDowell is the pitching coach and Mazzone is a radio host .
longtimefan
June 21st, 2012
9:58 pm
And those that continue to rag on Chipper are jealous, ignorant of the facts or don’t like Braves baseball. As recently as 2008 he won the NL batting title. He is one of the 3 best switch hitters in baseball history. He is for sure top 5 third basemen in the history of the game. He could have walked in the 90s or early 2000 for bigger bucks. Brave from start to finish. Moved to LF for the best of the team. You haters need to get a life. He is a once in a generation player. I will miss watching him play.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
9:59 pm
Mazzone left to go to Baltimore to be near his ailing parents.
Frankly, with the rotation the Braves had in the 90’s a giraffe coulda been the pitching coach
DoninAcworth
June 21st, 2012
10:06 pm
After reading all of the comments I convinced our bloggers could bring the Braves into
a long winning streak, win the pennant and then the World Series if only we would fire
Freddi, bench Chipper, never throw fastballs and stop going to other people’s ball parks to play and also don’t play at home. Go Braves!
NickB
June 21st, 2012
10:08 pm
lol, that’s about the truth huh?
the truth...
June 21st, 2012
10:10 pm
The surgery will be successful when we see Beachy throwing bullets next summer…of course Doc Andrews reports success………..
I loved his energy infusion last summer and in general am a big fan of small ball……that said, a couple of weeks ago when called upon to lay a sac bunt down with the game on the line, he couldn’t get the bat on the ball for trying to drag it for a single…………..not good Jose………..
the truth...
June 21st, 2012
10:15 pm
well the truth is…………
Thursday nights in June with no baseball are really, really slow…………..
Here’s to JJ Friday night at Fenway….
reckingball
June 21st, 2012
10:47 pm
@9:57pm………I have repeatedly asked the question, why is Mazzone a radio head, and not a pitching coach, somewhere, for some organization?
Does he only want to coach for the Braves?
Is Mazzone that great? Do all of the GMs and Managers in all of MLB, so misguided that they don’t see the great talent in Leo?
Or, is it that all of these Mazzone promoters don’t know what they are talking about? haha.
reckingball
June 21st, 2012
10:57 pm
Mazzone left Atl. so that he could go work for the new Oreo’s manager at the time, who happened to be his lifelong friend.
When his friend was laid-off, so was Leo.
the truth...
June 21st, 2012
11:05 pm
To add to the reason Mazzone left….it seems at the time that the story was he was to be paid like double what he made in Atlanta…..
Like $500,000 vs $250,000….
….now that’s from memory, and may not be exact but I think it is close….
cowdogit
June 21st, 2012
11:16 pm
Mazzone left after winning fourteen division titles – Smoltz – Glavine – Maddox – Cox – Chipper – never could win another title without Leo . These pitching greats were just aveage after Mazzone left .
RaleighDawg
June 21st, 2012
11:20 pm
@cowdogit – Chipper also keeps his average up by walking more than most (reduces his number of at bats, the denominator in batting average) and he particularly walks in situations where the Braves need a hit and NOT another walk.
reckingball
June 21st, 2012
11:21 pm
Wow???
From Malaysian Baseball League
June 21st, 2012
11:24 pm
Fredi: K.K. hear bad news on Beachee. K.K., now #1 pitcher in all of Malaysia. I ready to come to aid Braves anytime.
small ball
June 22nd, 2012
2:37 am
@NickB: heheeheh you are a freakin retarded ahahahah
CONSTANZA IT’S THE BALLPLAYER WHO ALL TEAMS WANTS TO HAVE !!!!
WHY CONSTANZA DESERVE THE SPOT IN 25 MAN ROSTER INSTEAD FRANCISCO?
OK READ THAT:
NUMBER ONE (MAYBE THE MOST IMPORTANT) :HE’S ONE OF THE FASTEST PLAYERS IN MLB ….. FRANCISCO ??? HE’S SLOW LIKE A ICE CREAM CAR
NUMBER TWO: HE’S A STELLAR OUTFIELDER ,,SO GOOD FOR RUNNING AND CATCH LINES INTO THE GAPS OR SHARPLY FLYBALLS IN THE WARNING TRACK..FRANCISCO BELOW THE AVERAGE WITH HIS GLOVE … ONLY REMEMBER THE 4 GAME OF THE SEASON IN HOUSTON 3 ERRORS , 2 IN THE SAME INNING AND SAME PLAY!!!!! BEACHY LOSE THE GAME FOR THAT!!!!
NUMBER 3: CONSTANZA IS CAPPABLE TO BE SAFE ON 1ST BASE IN GROUNDBALLS WITH OR WITHOUT RUNNERS ON,…FRANCISCO IT’S AN AUTOMATIC DOUBLE PLAY IF THE BRAVES HAVE RUNNERS ON..
NUMBER 4: FRANCISCO IT’S THE POP OUT KING ,,,,CONSTANZA AT LEAST PUT THE BALL IN THE GROUND WITH A GOOD CHANCE TO BE SAFE ON 1ST BASE WITH HIS SPEED-..
NUMBER 5: WITH CONSTANZA THE BRAVES HAVE A SQUEEZE PLAY OR SAC BUNT WHEN THEY NEED THAT ,,WITH FRANCISCO ?? AHAHAHAHAHA I DONT THINK SO
NUMBER 6: WITH CONSTANZA THE BRAVES HAVE A GOLD PINCH RUNNER CAPPABLE TO STOLE THE 2ND BASE AND PUT HIMSELF IN SCORING POSITION..
NUMBER 7: CONSTANZA IT’S A DECENT CONTACT PLAYER ,,FRANCISCO IT’S A STRIKEOUT OR POP OUT…
NUMBER 8: WITH CONSTANZA ON BASE THE PITCHERS COULD HAVE PROBLEMS BECAUSE HIS SPEED IT’S ANNOYING FOR THEY AND THAT IT’S GOOD FOR THE BATTER UP
AND NUMBER 9: I NEED ANOTHER REASON????
JNick
June 22nd, 2012
3:59 am
….maybe this was mentioned in a previous comment, but before he got drilled on the ankle, I believe the Braves were something like 19-5 WITH Chipper in the lineup, and like 6-15 without….
…but yeah, you’re right, he’s overrated and past his prime ::eyeroll::
As for the Georgie lovers….sure, speed is awesome, but you have to GET ON BASE first to use it. “Small Ball”, for being a contact hitter, as you call him, Constanza struck out 8 times in 32 at bats this year so far….given your post above, I’ll assume that math isn’t a strong subject of yours (since “facts” and “spelling” obviously are not) – that’s 25% of the time where he doesn’t make contact….
He also has ZERO walks this year….and zero steals. Even last year, he struck out twice as much as he walked, and for being so fast – he was caught on 4 of 11 steal attempts.
His OBP is .250 – which is barely better than Francisco at .243. I’m no fan of Francisco, but don’t make it sound like Constanza is leaps and bounds better. Constanza isn’t even the fastest guy on the AAA squad – if you want speed and a spark, call up Durango.
cowdogit
June 22nd, 2012
6:33 am
SMALL BALL — When you try to explain Canstanza to JNICK ,forget it ” you can;t cure stupid !!!
reckingball
June 22nd, 2012
7:11 am
whaaaat??
Marvin Mangrum
June 22nd, 2012
8:15 am
For Gods sake somebody give recking ball back his cookie. And change that stinky diaper!
Kharma
June 22nd, 2012
8:18 am
I wish reporters would get more information on these TJ surgeries.
Did he replace his UCL with a tendon or did the leave the ligament in place (a la Strasburg) and simply reinforce the ligament with a tendon?
Did they use the tendon from the Palmaris Longus muscle ? If so did they take the Palmaris Longus tendon from his pitching or non pitching arm. About 8 % of the population does not have a Palmaris Longus muscle. I believe Dr Andrews takes the tendon from the pitching arm which history will frown upon IMO.
Yogi Berra
June 22nd, 2012
8:38 am
Amen to @6:33 am & @ 8:15 Marvin…
@9:59..a graffe could have been pitching coach in 90’s..BS.
Who developed “coached” those young pitchers..Leo!
Doc Andrews
June 22nd, 2012
8:39 am
I always replace the torn ligament with an old banjo string.
Yogi Berra
June 22nd, 2012
8:43 am
giraffe..the thing with long neck..you know. it looks like nickyb and rkbals.
reckingball
June 22nd, 2012
8:47 am
@ Marv Mangrum…….Looks like someone has changed their moniker and is trying to go “INCOGNITO”. Again. haha, Highlarious.
reckingball
June 22nd, 2012
8:49 am
There he goes again. silly rabbit.
Don
June 22nd, 2012
9:20 am
One wonders if the AJC baseball writers have FORGOTTEN THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT FUNDAMENTAL OF JOURNALISM????? —–
In any situation — MAKE SURE YOU COVER OR MAKE THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.
Relating to Beachy – The HEADLINE SHOULD HAVE BEEN —
BRAVES ALL TIME WORLD RECORD INJURY MILL FOR STARTING PITCHERS GRINDS ON:
First Line Of Story — NEVER BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL HAS THERE BEEN A SITUATION WHERE, FOR A SEVEN YEAR PERIOD, ALMOST EVERY STARTING PITCHER FOR A TEAM HAS ENDED UP BEING INJURED.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 am
Good morning Children. What a bunch of spoiled babies. All of you need a good slap in the face. Instead of that, I will give all of you a little kiss and put you back to bed. Maybe when you wake up you will play nice. BEHAVE GUYS. You are driving me crazy. Show some TLC. I love all of you,but please be nice.
bruce mac
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 am
I would definately trade McCann at the deadline if you can get one or two big time prospects. He is never going to be a voted in allstar again. He has a catchers body and is pull happy. He is a major liability defensively in every category. This team is going to possibly make the playoffs and get eliminated pronto. They don’t have enough pitching to go deep in the playofffs. Build for 2014. With another starting pitcher or two and a big bat in the outfield, this team could be rediculous in a couple of years.
CarJack
June 22nd, 2012
9:28 am
How rich must Dr. James Andrews be? He apparently is the only surgeon that any athlete will use when it comes to ligament surgery……
Whiskey River
June 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
@Amy Just who in the H do you think you are? I was out arresting people like you,before you were born. Go take some more powder and leave us heavyweights alone.
reckingball
June 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
Don @9:20am…….Got any back-up info, on that statement?
reckingball
June 22nd, 2012
10:05 am
Amy, are you trying to do a little ‘dirty talking’?
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
10:13 am
What is the matter with everyone? I am just trying to be nice and make friends. Apparently ,I am not wanted.
Tumbledown
June 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
Don: I agree with reckingball, even though reckingball believes I am a nitwit. Show us some stats on what you are talking about. Provide a list on who has been injured over the last seven years and what their precise injuries were. While I don’t believe you can blame McDowell, It would be interesting to really see how extensive this list is.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
11:11 am
Well, I have waited long enough for someone to talk to me, I have to go. So I will blow everyone a kiss and say I am sorry. Goodbye.
jim
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
If we look at the Braves pitchers over that 7 year period we find:
Brandon Beachy — TJ surgery
Tommy Hanson — poor mechanics, shoulder problems in 2011
Tim Hudson — TJ surgery in 2009, back surgery, ankle bone spurs
Randall Delgado — no problems yet
Mike Minor — no problems yet
Kris Medlen — TJ surgery in 2010
Jair Jurjens — hurt knee in 2010 and recurring problems since (not related to arm) first hurt playing softball in Curacao
Craig Kimbrel — no problems yet
Jonny Venters — TJ surgery in minors
Arodys Vizcaino — partial tear shortly after acquisition in minors, TJ surgery in 2012
Christian Martinez — no problems yet
Chad Durbin — no problems with Braves
EOF — health issues with both Mariners and Braves, elbow soreness recently, no major issues yet
Peter Moylan — TJ surgery and labrum surgery
Cory Gearrin — no problems yet
Anthony Varvaro — arm issues before coming to Braves, DL stint this year
Julio Teheran — no problems yet
George Sherrill — I believe there were arm issues before coming to Braves, talent issues while here
Linebrink — only talent issues with Braves
Scott Proctor — arm issues before joining Braves, only talent issues while here
Billy Wagner — pulled hamstring in playoffs
Mike Dunn — no health issue while a Brave
Manny Acosta — no health issues while a Brave
Buddy Carlyle — health issues not related to arm
Jorge Campillo — had some arm related issues that shut him down for a while
Jeff Bennett — no arm issues
John Smoltz — periodic arm and shoulder problems starting in late 90’s
Kyle Davies — was shut down with an injury that he did not tell Cox about beforehand, no serious injury
Chuck James — arm injury (waiting to happen)
Jo Jo Reyes — no injury problems
Charlie Morton — shut down for a minor injury issue — no major problems
Mike Gonzalez — arm injury (injury waiting to happen when acquired)
Rafael Soriano — no major problems
the fellow received from TB for RS — no injury issues
HoRam and Hampton first experienced injury during Leo’s time
Is there a common thread here? Will we find similar breakdowns in other organizations? Is someone to blame? McDowell? Cox? Fredi? Frank Wren? All of the above? The Atlanta weather? The mound at Turner Field? The groundscrew? Stay tuned for the expert analysis to follow!
Don Corleone
June 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Come on guys. Amy wants us all to get along. You know, be nice to each other. I know it doesn’t sound like a lot of fun, but maybe she’s right. Should we give it a try?
jim
June 22nd, 2012
12:01 pm
My guess at what the lineup will look like tonight:
Bourn 8, Prado 5 or 7, Mac 2, Uggla 4, Freeman 3, Chipper DH or 5, Heyward 9, Diaz 7 or DH, Simmons 6.
What I would prefer against the lefty:
Bourn, Prado, Heyward, Uggla, Freeman, Chipper, Simmons, Diaz, Ross.
Whiskey River
June 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm
@jim I agree with preferred list
Ozzie
June 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
I think the biggest dig against McDowell is he cannot field a staff that pitches well beyond the 5 inning (with almost no 200 IP/yr guys). Leo made his guys work out like dogs. They hated him for it but they avg IP was a beneficiary of better preparation.
McDowell was a reliever. He never had to worry about or train for long stretches of work. Work every day for three days maybe but not 7-8 innings every 5.
Different point of view.
The TJ stuff stems from teaching kids to throw sliders and curveballs too soon in the minors. They over tax their arms early and by the time they are 22 many need TJ.
15 years ago how many teams had pitchers in the SR under 23? Not many. Now you see it quite often (many times 2-3 22yos). That only happens b/c the kids are being pushed to have a broad array of pitches earlier in their careers.
15yrs ago a 21yo kid had one good pitch and a decent secondary. They starter in the pen and moved into the rotation.
Kotex
June 22nd, 2012
12:07 pm
Hey Jim…..Tell me about that groundscrew?
The Truth....
June 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
you can ignore all you want….but the fact remains this team is not ready to win it all. And that is what its all about. So…bury your head in the sand and enjoy the rest of the average season as a Braves fan. And I hope I am totally wrong and they win the WS….I’ve been a Braves fan since watching Phil Niekro….And these past few years they have not put a team on the field to compete and WIN a WS….Its just a business for Libery Media…Not about winning the WS. Just making $$$.
Ozzie
June 22nd, 2012
12:14 pm
The team as is, probably not in playoff shape. Too streaky and the streaks (esp the losing) are too long.
If they cannot find consistency they will likely miss the post season possibly by a lot. Put it another way if they are still enjoying 4-5 game losing streaks in Aug & Sept it will be no joy for ATL.
Tumbledown
June 22nd, 2012
12:21 pm
Thanks jim for compilintg that list.
Tumbledown
June 22nd, 2012
12:21 pm
Compiling, that is
My backside
June 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Amy slap me!!!
DawgDad
June 22nd, 2012
12:55 pm
“And those that continue to rag on Chipper are jealous, ignorant of the facts or don’t like Braves baseball. ” Sorry, I don’t worship at your altar.
The decision on Chipper is over and done with, can’t take it back now. But his current contract was a mistake. Saying that is NOT ragging on Chipper, it’s his BAGGAGE (cost, limited availability) that is dragging this team down. Add then throw on $10 million for D. Lowe to NOT play. You give Wren HALF that $25 million payroll space and I would bet my next paycheck the Braves would be riding high right now. Think taking the existing roster and ADDING a Beltran all year, or another veteran ace in the rotation.
Whiskey River
June 22nd, 2012
12:57 pm
@The Truth WOW We agree on something. Thats a first.
Whiskey River
June 22nd, 2012
1:00 pm
@DawdDad WOW WE are getting along today. Maybe Amy was right. Maybe we should have talked to her more. I didn’t because I know her kind.
Frank Wren
June 22nd, 2012
1:10 pm
I can’t believe you fans don’t see the brilliance behind my decision to acquire Franscisco.
It is time that the common fan recognized my intelligence and smooth, debonair style.
jim
June 22nd, 2012
1:15 pm
As I recall, Maddux had his own regimen and did not follow Leo’s program. Leo was a protege of Johnny Sain who advocated throwing more between starts. The Braves of the Torre years had Gibson at the major leagues and Sain in the minors with totally different pitching philosophies. Those Braves had a lot of pitchers not named Niekro go down with injuries too.
Maddux was very efficient with his pitches and often got to the 8th inning before reaching 100. He and Glavine both had very easy deliveries and worked primarily with change ups and variations on the fastball.– not a lot of curves and sliders. Smoltz and Avery were harder throwers and eventually both broke down.
The problem with the Braves starters not going deep into games can not so easily be attributed to a difference between Leo’s and Roger’s condtitioning regimen. Roger’s routine is unlikely to differ very much from other pitching philosophies in other organizations. The Braves do not have an innings eater like CC, Halladay, Lee, Verlander — Derek Lowe was hired to be that guy, but that dide not work out (through no fault of McDowell?). Hanson and JJ when they were pitching well before the All Star break last year often did go 7+ innings, but now Hanson is primarily a curve ball and slider pitcher who nibbles a lot more. Delgado when he is throwing strikes is actually the pitcher most able to go deep into games (but would have to be hit for when the team scores no runs behind him).
Other than the aforementioned aces, there are not a lot of pitchers going more than 6 innings/start regularly. (For example Gio Gonzalez is having a great year, but often comes out of the game before the 7th inning).
My own opinion is that coaches get way too much credit or blame for the performance of their charges. Good hitters make good hitting coaches, and good pitchers, good pitching coaches. There is probably very little difference between the philosophy and ability of most major league coaches. (A Larry Parrish who never was a hitting instructor at any level before was a real outlier.)
Dr. Bend Over
June 22nd, 2012
1:16 pm
All Beachy really needed was a complete and thorough prostate examination. That would have fixed him up.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
1:27 pm
I have been reading all the posts. Maybe someone wants to talk to me now. I will talk to anyone except that Whiskey guy, I don’t talk to cops or ex cops.
jim
June 22nd, 2012
1:30 pm
Bob Gibson’s stint as a pitching coach for Torre managed teams was pretty unique, and not especially memorable. Very few top pitchers served as pitching coaches. Sain was both a top starter and reliever during his career. Most pitching coaches were lesser talents — relievers like McDowell and Ron Peranowski, journeymen like Randy StcClare, or even catchers like Dave Duncan.
Barbara
June 22nd, 2012
1:33 pm
Well I read all your comments some good points some not so good. I still and always will think the Braves org should get rid of the dead wood Fredi and Roger
Tumbledown
June 22nd, 2012
1:41 pm
jim – I agree with your 1:15 post. I also agree with Ozzie’s post of 12:05. The Braves’ pitching staff of today is far different than the ones led by the three future hall of famers in the 90s. Whatever the cause of the recent arm troubles by Braves’s pitchers cannot be traced to McDowell’s pitching philosophy.
My backside
June 22nd, 2012
1:44 pm
Talk to me Amy, please!!
Tumbledown
June 22nd, 2012
1:46 pm
As with most sports, it is probably harder for the supremely talented to become a coach or teacher as that star would get easily frustrated when his players cannot replicate the teachings. It is easier for a journeyman, based on his struggles as a pro, to understand all that is required for any type of player to succeed.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
@my backside Iam here. What do you want to talk about?
My backside
June 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
Please don’t kick me.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
2:02 pm
Blowing kisses for whatever I did wrong. Sorry Bye
My backside
June 22nd, 2012
2:03 pm
Kisses for me????
Morris Code
June 22nd, 2012
2:09 pm
Hi Amy, I just love your posts.
My backside
June 22nd, 2012
2:10 pm
I guess Amy dosen’t talk to me because I’m a cop, a crack cop.
Amy
June 22nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Still blowing kisses if anyone is catching.
icons pack
November 4th, 2012
12:56 am
You are not similar to the expert