4:43 pm June 21, 2012, by David O'Brien
June 21st, 20124:47 pm
June 21st, 20124:49 pm
It’s about time for someone to log on, and tell us one more time, that Beachy’s arm would never have been injured if Leo Mazzone was still the pitching coach.
June 21st, 20124:50 pm
@reckingball Win 2 in a row and you show up. Where were you when they were losing? INCOGNITO.
June 21st, 20124:52 pm
They should change their handle, to Stuck Record. haha
June 21st, 20124:56 pm
Thanks for the update David… amazing how fast this all plays out, repaired before his turn comes around again.
June 21st, 20124:57 pm
Change yours to fair weather fanLOL
June 21st, 20125:01 pm
Well Whiskey,…. the folks that like to caterwaul, gnash their teeth, call the players names, and cry like little babys, when the Braves lose, don’t like me to make comments about how utterly ignorant, some of their rants are, so I just don’t make any comments.
You know,…. like firing Wren, and bringing Bobby Cox back as GM.
Or, completely dismantleing the team and starting over with a complete rebuild, etc, etc,…..you know, stupid comments like that.
What happened to the plan of ignoring each other’s comments?
I thought it was a pretty good plan.
June 21st, 20125:03 pm
June 21st, 20125:05 pm
Whiskey……..As far as fair weather fan,…. You have defined yourself as the epitome, of a fair weather fan, several times on these blogs.
“When they win I say good things about them” your quote, or something to that order, just the other day.
June 21st, 20125:16 pm
alright Whiskey and recking…. act nice or go to your rooms:)
June 21st, 20125:17 pm
you’re not the boss of them
I almost forgot one of the dumber comments made by one or more commenters……release Chipper and bring back Constanza, how moronic is that?
June 21st, 20125:19 pm
ole dawg……..I am being nice. haha
go braves, hoping that the weather is fair, up there in Beantown.
June 21st, 20125:23 pm
Given the Braves present position in the standings, it is certainly reasonable to argue that they should stay the course and see how the season plays out. It is also reasonable to advocate a change of course of direction, especially if one is convinced that the Braves cannot win the World Series after factoring in injuries and their history of late season and post season failures. Both positions, I believe, are reasonable and can be supported. There is nothing “stupid” about staying the course or advocating a complete rebuild.
June 21st, 20125:31 pm
being reasonable is stupid
Why is it that sportswriters, broadcasters, etc. continue to refer to this as “Tommy John Surgery”? Why not just “TJ Surgery”? Everyone, believe me would know what that is. Baseball is a game of initials, acronyms, etc. for everything from A to Z, yet they all insist on saying “Tommy John Surgery” ad nauseum. I’m beginning to thing Tommy John himself gets a royalty everytime his name is mentioned, or maybe Dr. Andrews, and they are being put up to it. For crying outloud, it’s ‘TJ SURGERY”, much easier and quicker to say. Save your hot air!
June 21st, 20125:34 pm
I respect everyone’s right to have an opinion.
But, when I totally disagree with someone’s opinion, I can’t say that I respect their opinion, on that subject.
My opinion, on the subject of advocating a complete rebuild, of this Braves team is, that it is not only reactionary, but also very stupid.
But, that is just my opin., agree, or disagree, it really doesn’t matter to me, at all.
June 21st, 20125:36 pm
While not stupid, being reasonable is often a thankless task.
June 21st, 20125:38 pm
TuffShhtuff……..Did you use to write for Andy Rooney, on 60 Minutes?
June 21st, 20125:40 pm
“rb” As a matter of fact…………I…………………………didn’t, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
June 21st, 20125:41 pm
Did the rebuilding advocates, ever consider that the Braves are in somewhat of a rebuild cycle, right now?
June 21st, 20125:42 pm
Reckingball- I respect your opinion yet you do not respect my opinion or the opinions of those that might want to try a more radical approach with the Braves. Oh well.
June 21st, 20125:46 pm
Tuff…….That was a good one. haha.
June 21st, 20125:47 pm
ignore, ignore, ignore
Mike from the coast
June 21st, 20125:50 pm
Hey, look at the young talent. JHey 22, Freeman 22, Simmons 22, Pitching Beachy if he comes back healthy 25?, Prado 26?, Resign Bourn, McCann 27?, Delgado 23, Kimbrel 24?, Be patient folks, this team is the future and it looks bright to me. Patience, Patience, Patience. If not this year we are loaded for the future.
June 21st, 20125:52 pm
The Braves have one of the youngest teams in MLB, or so I have heard.
They are still hanging in the race for the NLEast.
What kind of rebuild would some of these GMs on these blogs ‘advocate’?
June 21st, 20126:00 pm
If Leo was still our pitching coach Beachy would not have torn up him elbow, Chipper would not have injured his leg, and furthermore, Freddie wouldn’t have a sore finger!
June 21st, 20126:03 pm
Lots of sniping, too little opining going on here.
This team is and has been in transition for a few years now, and other than Huddy and Chipper they are very young. Over half the roster makes under $750K. It would be foolish to even consider tearing this team down, selling OR buying at the trade deadline…..handing over a couple great prospects for what? A rental player. Think Texeira, and how Schuerholz literally built the Texas Rangers into World Series contenders.
Until Liberty Media sells this team to an owner who will get involved in building a competitive operation, they are likely dead in the water in trying to bring in high-priced talent (ala the Yankees, mets, Angels, Rangers, Phillies, etc.). last year the CEO of LM made more than the entire Braves payroll.
here’s what I think must happen: Chipper and Lowe money = $25M to spend…..resign Bourn, get a big OF RH bat (if one is available). Pray that Jurrjens has a couple good outings and trade him for anything before you have to deal with his agent, Scott Boras.
Remember,they’re gonna have to pay Prado, Freeman, Heyward, Kimbral, Simmons, O’Flaherty, Hanson, Beachy, Medlin as well….they are ALL keepers.
That brings us to Brian McCann. We all love what he’s given us for 6+ yrs, but you don’t pay a player for past performances, you pay him for future performances. All indications seem to point to Mac wearing down, and his offense is plummeting. Everyone plays the shift against him, and he can’t beat it…..keeps trying to just hit HRs. 2013 is an option year @ $13m I believe. Then you’ve got to let an AL team pay him the $15m+ over 6-7 years he’s gonna demand. He’s not worth it…you’ll end up with the same problem as you’ve had with Chipper the last few years….great leader, occasional performance but eating up too much of a tight payroll.
Bethancourt is coming on, maybe Gattis, maybe bring someone else in as a bridge if they are not yet ready for 2014.
Best thing Wren can do likely is to do next to nothing….let this play out.
June 21st, 20126:06 pm
@5:36……..”being reasonable is a thankless task”
The advocation of dismantling of this Braves team IS Not “being reasonable”, in my opinion, it is the exact opposite of “being reasonable”.
Let me get back to reallity.
64 year Braves fan
June 21st, 20126:12 pm
I like Brownies thinking.
Alaska Braves Fan
June 21st, 20126:15 pm
reckingball: I agree with most everything you have said, especially your comments regarding civil discourse and the clueless notions that are posted by apparently rabid but senseless and ignorant fans. (I tried so hard not to say “ignorant.”) Ignoring others’ comments might help, but the temptation to exchange thoughts probably is too great.
To all Braves fans I would say: We have the team and the leaders that we have, and, all in all, they are doing well. Walk a mile in their shoes, and then see what you think. This team is in the thick of it, and we really don’t know how things will end up this year. My guess is this team makes the playoffs!
June 21st, 20126:22 pm
When a player brings hustle an attitude to a team , it makes the team play at a higher level . Constanza motivates ” Without Canstanza the braves took a nose-dive in September , same in June . Most fans would rather suck-up to Chipper than win games .
June 21st, 20126:29 pm
The best thing that I can say for Constanza, is that he plays left field very well.
June 21st, 20126:35 pm
Brownie makes good points. Need that RIGHThanded hitter. McCann a natural for DH in AL.
June 21st, 20126:42 pm
umm, Constanza played in 12 games last September and he hit .174/.174/.174 during that time
June 21st, 20126:44 pm
Bourn isn’t coming back, and based on what he will probably get in free agency (5 or 6 yrs $15-%16 mill per) he shouldn’t be back. That’s too much money to pay for a guy who has speed as his main source of value.
Do we really want to be paying a guy who has lost a step and plays below avg defense in CF but doesn’t have the bat for LF $15 mill a year at age 36? I don’t think we do
If I were to do some rebuilding it would be with who wears the manager’s hat on the team…..
June 21st, 20126:53 pm
You say we are a young team, Maybe so Maybe not. When you have a 40 yr old as the Boss of the team, It does’nt matter how young we are because this 40 yr old is going to steal all the glory qand make sure that the kids are doomed until he is gone.
June 21st, 20126:59 pm
Good news for Beachy. We fans just want someone to question the captain of this ship when he is making decisions to cause it to sink. Not too much to ask.
Now what does being 40 have to do with Fredi just being stupid….?
June 21st, 20127:01 pm
Fire Fredi! His in game management on average still sucks. And His laid back style is not good for this team.
June 21st, 20127:02 pm
Brownie, also like your thinking but no comment on Roger Dodger……I firmly believe you will have addition by subtraction with him gone…..the sooner the better……I can’t believe FG doesn’t see it or if he does….is overruled by FW. Don’t rebuild, stay the course but a la the hitting coach(s) change…. Roger is THE main culture issue with the Bravos
June 21st, 20127:03 pm
@ACE Our 40 yr old BOSS will make the ship SINK very fast.
June 21st, 20127:05 pm
@the truth FG does not run this ship. The BOSS does. FG just feeds the fire.
June 21st, 20127:06 pm
why is it when I read your posts i picture a thrashing, gesticulating madman frantically pecking away at a 1987 keyboard?
June 21st, 20127:11 pm
I had to google “caterwaul”….never seen it in print………thought I may have to call the SPCA…
June 21st, 20127:13 pm
At least I tell the truth. I am still waiting on my answer Mr dictionary. If you don’t think Chipper runs this team, than you better get out of your Fantasy Land. Thats why he stayed another year. Not to help the team but to get as much glory as he can. What has he done fot the team since retuning? But he sure likes all the gifts.
June 21st, 20127:15 pm
of all my years of following the Braves, and Chipper, you are the ONLY person I have seen try and make him akin to A-rod. does he have a special locker section? Does he have a special entourage? Did he leave the team for the obvious more $$$ he could have gotten in the early 2000’s? the answer to all of these is NO.
so, no, you don’t speak the truth, you speak deluded ramblings by someone lashing out because they are safely tucked away in interweb land
June 21st, 20127:16 pm
either that or you are 14….. I hope, for your sake, it’s the latter
June 21st, 20127:23 pm
What’s up with all these ‘fire fredi, fire roger’ fans? You guys forgot that its the players who perform, not the managers? Especially for Roger, i didn’t see nobody complaining last year when the Braves had one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.
June 21st, 20127:27 pm
Perhaps the “Whiskey River” is more descriptive than one might think at first…..sounds like that “river” is flowing a bit tonight…….
June 21st, 20127:28 pm
Yes he DID that. Did is the key word. He deserves Hall of Fame, He has had a career that supersedes all. He HAS- Been great. He came back for 1 more year to get all his gifts and socialize with the other teams. When he is not doing that he bosses the team. HE DOES’NT Want to go to rehab. hE DOES’nt want to DH because HE SAID SO. The kids on this team are doomed. When he was not on this team they won 6 in a row and were on a roll. What have they done with him? ANSWER NOTHING He doesn’t want the kids to take away his glory so we can forget a playoff this year. We do have a very bright future. But as long as he is on this team, he is the BOSS and see to it that we go nowhere.
June 21st, 20127:31 pm
Fredi never played in the Majors so he never performed.
June 21st, 20127:32 pm
He’s still a very productive hitter. But since you only view the small sample of how he has been since he came off the DL, you think he’s terrible. He isn’t.
@the truth If you ar referring to drinking. I wish I could. That is how I got my name. I was drinking whiskey like a river. So get your facts straight before accussing somebody.
June 21st, 20127:33 pm
Even the uber stat nerds like me think Fredi is terrible mgr, he misuses the bullpen, and makes lots of simple blunders that a major league level mgr should not make
June 21st, 20127:34 pm
@NickB one hit,one Rbi. WOW he is still good. Give him a cookie. BTW I was probably watching baseball before you were born.
Chipper has been a great player and should be a first ballot hall of famer but you hate to see someone hang around too long like Willie Mays did.
June 21st, 20127:37 pm
Why does Fredi get a pass from the AJC for all his blunders.
That doesn’t mean you have one iota of what you are talking about…..
The small sample size since his return is irrelevant. before he got hurt, he had a 1.1 WAR and was in the top 5 in 3rd baseman in production.
Constanza (your pet project for some unknown reason) is not a good player, his career OPS is .681, since the first 23 games of 2011 his OPS is like .490 that’s terrible.
June 21st, 20127:38 pm
Brownie, ..for the record….I think Greg Maffei (CEO of LM) had “pay” of $6.5 million last year including the value of the NYC apartment….. Don’t think he would mind the “budgeted” $90million the Braves hover around…. Cash generation is of value to LM and this division supports that…. If it was a private company with an owner to hold accountable…that is where the frustration would be pointed……vs. FG. With LM, they have had this investment payoff with a strong cashflow, minions in the operating roles and shills in the PR and Broadcasting roles…… Not a bit of hassle or negative iota for them as they invest in STARZ and Encore, etc., Any “Baseball Town” ….and I travel constantly and follow the Bravos everywhere………..a la STL, BOS, NY………heck……..even LA where I watched the McCourt debacle unfold……… and now even the Dodgers are positioned well………..would howl at the talent come and gone through the ATL…… BTW, one more time………..Roger is the issue…..as Mike Singletary vocalized…..”Can’t have bad decisions made and then be….. non-chalant”…….”Can’t play with em!!!, can’t win with ‘em, can’t coach with ‘em……can’t do it…………..I want winners”……………….That is where your Country Club atmoshere has been generated the last 6-7 years…. BTW, DOB……thanks for the posts…..class act.
June 21st, 20127:40 pm
btw whiskey river, I’m 39, if you’ve been watching baseball sine before 1973, I would think you would understand how you treat veteran players a bit more than that, especially ones with positive offensive value
June 21st, 20127:41 pm
Tommy John’s name is not Tommy John. He came up in the Indians organization and was in the Eastern League with Charlestown, WV. His catcher coming up at that time was Duane”Duke” Sims. Luis Tiant was on the same team. Believe his last name is actually Jankowski, and shortened.
June 21st, 20127:43 pm
baseball reference says his name is Thomas Edward John
June 21st, 20127:45 pm
Want to see how the UCL surgery is done? Check this link. I had a partial tear of mine 50 years ago, along with an non-displaced fracture of the “pointy bone” on the inside of the elbow (I’ll skip the Latin).
June 21st, 20127:48 pm
@Jay Puskenalis “Believe his last name is actually Jankowski, and shortened.”
Coincidentally, Sebastian Janikowski, the FSU and Oakland Raiders placekicker also had the surgery.
June 21st, 20127:54 pm
@NickB I was watching baseball before you were born. I know how to trat veterans when they deserve it. Chipper has absolutely no good for this team. He does’nt care whether they win or not. Willie Mays stayed too long but at least he tried to help his team. Chipper is done and not even trying to help.
June 21st, 20127:57 pm
Oh and you have this all figured out do you? Cuz he won’t DH? apparently it makes him unomfortable and affects his at bats in a negative way. seems like that’s helping the team not to go and do something he doesn’t feel he can do effectively.
But, just keep living in the past old man, Chipper makes this team better. The NUMBERS back me up. But keep thinking that 2 weeks is all you need to pass complete judgment on someones future offensive production.
June 21st, 20127:58 pm
By the way, I did not have the surgery. 1) It had not been “invented” yet, and 2) I was not a pitcher. Still have to stretch my arm out in the morning.
Beware: That web site has photos, and it is not for the squeamish.
June 21st, 20127:59 pm
Chipper only plays for the money , he could care less if the braves win , He may be the worst clutch hitter in baseball history , The players on the low end of the payroll are tired of setting the table so the super star can fail again . During the fourteen year run if Chipper had hit in the clutch the braves would have won at least five world series titles . Bring Canstanza back .
June 21st, 20128:00 pm
It does matter what he does now. It is time to make a move and as long he is the distraction. The team is going nowhere. Next year yes. Go Braves 2013.
June 21st, 20128:01 pm
HawaiiBF…..regarding sports results and usually business results……it is sometimes………… “because of” leadership or planning but often……… “in spite of”………….. I have watched Freddi “Coach-Up” better than any manager this side of Ned Yost……………. (Ned is another Bobbi guy……and BTW ……watch out for them-there Royals and what they’re building in KC ….with a “small market payroll”…..BTW2….I was at the Astro’s game the last two days and Frenchy almost pegged Cliff Lee @ 1st on a single to right…..LMAO)………..but FG is the best parts of what Bobbi wasn’t and y’all forget…. (Cox was TOO loyal) and I’m just saying that when you look at FG and RM in silos………….I’ll take FG any day of the week…. Our pitchers through the system flourish until they get to the show and if then they perform it’s “in spite of”…..Roger. Freddi didn’t just wake up stupid……was hand-picked as the perfect successor…..just needs to get TP more voice and Roger……………GONE.
June 21st, 20128:02 pm
anyone who think Constanza should be on our 25 man roster DOES NOT UNDERSTAND BASEBALL.
it’s really that simple.
batting avg is a lousy indicator of production, but since you like it,here’s the facts on yer boy:
first 26 major league games avg .326
next 24 major league games avg .207
there ya go, the league figured him out
June 21st, 20128:05 pm
@cowdodit At least 1 other person is not living in FantasyLand
June 21st, 20128:06 pm
have any numbers to back up your claim cowdogit? nope i didn’t think so, but don’t worry i will be here to prove to you that you “clutch” idea is misguided and wrong
June 21st, 20128:07 pm
I did not mention Constanza. I just said Chipper is done. THAT IS FACT whether you want to believe it or not.
June 21st, 20128:10 pm
WHY hasn’t he helped since he came back. ANSWER He doesn;t want to because then he couldnt get all the glory on him. CHIPPER IS DONE.IT is a Fact. You need to accept.
I guess Beachy isn’t of interest to some posters here. The Hate Chipper – Love Chipper argument is very tiresome.
June 21st, 20128:12 pm
Chipper’s career OPS (OBP+SLG%) ..933
Chipper’s career OPS in high leverage situation (clutch situations) 1.044
Chipper’s career OPS in medium leverage situations .882
Chipper’s career OPS in low leverage situations .992
decidedly clutch it appears, but then again, most good hitters hit around the same in every situation
but let’s not end it there :
career OPS with RISP – .967
career OPS with men on base- .957
career OPS in the postseason- .871
show me where he isn’t an elite hitter ?
June 21st, 20128:13 pm
sorry delbert, but it irritates me when people just post false tirades directed at people they apparently know nothing about. So I post the FACTS to clarify the issue to those who may not fully understand and may read this blog.
June 21st, 20128:14 pm
Then maybe Fredi should coach up Roger since he is his boss.
June 21st, 20128:15 pm
That is correct but not now. He has Hall of Fame #’s from before.But not now. HE IS DONE!!!
June 21st, 20128:17 pm
Since you are so in love with a washed up veteran, I am thru talking. Everyone have a great nite. Take care and may God be with you.
June 21st, 20128:19 pm
NickB – Wasn’t aiming at you. It’s the comments about what he is not. I’m not a really big CJ fan; very goodplayer, seems to be the typical dumb jock in other ways. I tend to respect the more intelligent athletes more, even the ones that are somewhat ignorant, but intelligent.
Since Mazzone left, the Braves have had a lot of pitchers with arm issues, not like in 90’s when the pitchers were mostly healthy. It appears a Braves pitcher now has to have Tommy John surgery every year. What up wit Dat!!
June 21st, 20128:21 pm
a lot of other pitchers have had TJ surgery too, and that isn’t the Bravespitching coaches fault.
btw, a lot of pitchers had injuries under Leo, Avery, Rocker,Smoltz, among others
June 21st, 20128:22 pm
THE BRAVES COULD WIN MORE IF COX HADN’T TAUGHT FREDI THAT THE WORD BUNT WAS AN UGLY FOUR LETTER WORD..UGGLA PROBABLY BUNT’S BETTER THAN HE HIT’S.
June 21st, 20128:24 pm
Bunts are a waste f outs unless the pitcher is doing it, with the lone exception of late/close situations where only one run is needed to win the game. any other time, playing for one run is a terrible offensive philosophy
Good post at 8:12. The Chipper haters don’t like facts.
June 21st, 20128:27 pm
Glavine and Maddux weren’t high-velocity guys. Smoltz was the burner with the great slider. I read a study the other day that showed that 86% of the guys with the UCL injuries threw hard sliders. Whatever; Beachy should be expected to come back at least as good as ever, and he has at least another 10 years of durability added to that young arm.
June 21st, 20128:30 pm
NickB – Billy Beane agrees with the no bunting.
June 21st, 20128:32 pm
HOE MANY HAVE THEY LOST BY 1?
June 21st, 20128:35 pm
Couldn’t agree more with “Coaching-Up” Roger but we’ve all had foxes in the hen-house who were tough to root out……I think Wren wanted more continuity after Bobby left and Roger stayed and has the personality and…. has….. “the stats” with 3rd, 3rd, 4th in the league in team ERA… Stats and personality but………. headcases & injuries in a multitude of our staff year after year………….. This is his 7th year I think….yes 7….and……………time for a change……….maybe we need a Starting Pitchers Coach and a true Bullpen Coach…. Heck, we have two batting coaches…… What’s Duncan up to?….He helped make La Russa one of the best ever…… Freddi, get your own guy….!!!
June 21st, 20128:37 pm
MAYBE STRIKE OUTS AND BOUBLE PLAYS EXCITE YOU MORE.
June 21st, 20128:41 pm
STOP WRITING IN ALL CAPS YA LUNATIC
June 21st, 20128:45 pm
I posted this the other day, but for you GRAPHITE I will post it again:
these are the odds written as a 3 digit percentage of scoring from various bases during the differeing amount of outs (0 1 or 2)
runner on 1st 0 outs-.820 runner on 2nd 1 out : .650
runner on 2nd 0 outs- .1.054 runner on 3rd 1 out :.907
runners 1st and 2nd no outs -1.402
runners 2nd and 3rd one out- 1.320
as you can see, losing an out to advance a runner one base actually lowers the chance of scoring success. therefor it is a lousy offensive strategy
June 21st, 20128:46 pm
I remember hearing Tom Glavine comment recently when asked what’s going on with all these pitchers arm injuries. He commented there is a big difference with a pitcher and as thrower. In his time most “pitched” hitting corners going inside and outside not really worrying what the MPH gun said. In most cases todat those arms that have to have Tommy John are throwers (ie: Strasburg and soon Chapman) that worry how fast they throw the ball instead of doing what the position says – PITCH !!!
June 21st, 20128:55 pm
to be honest though, being able tothrow 96 with control is better than being able to throw 90 with control. Kids know this, so they work on mph and control.
I’m of the opinion that there are several factors that contribute to all the TJ surgery these days:
increased mph at younger ages
increased sliders/cutters at younger ages
changes in modern mechanics to facilitate higher mph without the high leg kick
the 5 man rotation cutting down on innings pitched per season
and my personal pet reason:
the presence of the surgery itself gives young pitchers the safety net to go all out, they KNOW that if they blow a ligament they can have the surgery and in 12-18 months be right back at it. in the past, pitchers tended to hold back until they got into trouble, nowadays it’s just all out mayhem from the first pitch til they get pulled
Nickb conveniently ignores the other games Constanza played in. He played very sporadically in Sept. because our wise mgr. chose to sit him. Plus, he was injured. Other than that, he still hit over .300 for the year, nickb. A lot of real knowledgeable fans were incredulous to Jose’s lack of playing time except for the close minded.
June 21st, 20129:00 pm
you can argue all you want, the numbers speak for themselves
the league figured out how to pitch him and now he sucks, he started out hot and now he’s just a 5th OF’er.
i would like to see some stats that prove your theory that he’s a great player. so great that not only can he not make the team’s 25 man roster, but no other team has offered to trade for him. surely if he was such a good player SOMEBODY would have tried to acquire him by now, at age 28
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