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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,709 comments Add your comment
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:35 pm
Wayne gets a pass. Fellow-alumni exception.
PureEvil
June 21st, 2012
4:36 pm
I’d rather read his comments than a lot of the nasty ones.
I’ve never read anything posted on a blog, by a person that I’ll likely never meet that I could say offended me or was “nasty”!! Am I just over looking all the nasty posts?
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:36 pm
Where are the nasty posts?
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:37 pm
ncscoots
Jose Constanza can be scrambled to spell Scant Jean Zoos
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:37 pm
As much as I like speedy guys who can play CF to be 4th outfielders for teams, I prefer Matty D to Constanza on our roster. No hating, it’s just my opinion, and is the right choice according to statistics.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:38 pm
Here is where I tip my derby to a guy thats has been chasing his dream and grinding it out in the minors forever. Good luck, much respect.
I mean, that’s okay too. I don’t look it at like that, and maybe it makes me a bad person. But I invest more in young players that have come up through the system because they are more important to the long term health of this organization. Some people just simply do not understand this(not saying you don’t, Bat).
DAP
June 21st, 2012
4:39 pm
shaun Claiming that a player has the best defensive tools among all shortstops means one is not impressed?
it doesnt make sense, because he says he isnt impressed with simmons, but also says he has the best tools as a SS int he majors. doesnt compute.
id venture to say anyone not impressed with simmons so far isnt paying attention, particularly on defense.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:41 pm
I don’t undrstand why some people have lost their minds about Wren picking up DJ Carrasco on a whim (and on the cheap). Every team in baseball will make at least 2 or 3 acquisitions of this type as organizational depth/ 90% won’t even sniff the big squad during the season, but they are there in case they regain some former glory and can fill in during a pinch.
Yet some folks are acting like it’s some terrible deal that is bankrupting the team….
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:41 pm
“Robert, I think you’re overrating Garza or the impact of any one player. In his best season, last year, Garza was a 5-wins-above-replacement player. His next best seasons have been around 3 wins”
Shaun – I think Garza is a low number two starter. Now tell me this – what percentage of pitching prospects EVER have a year in the majors where they have a WAR of +5?
Here’s what happens. A team’s fans always latch on to their particular prospects. They always think their guys are the exception – they are the one/s who will make it big, so we must not trade them unless we get Hamilton Pujols AND Verlander for them
But statistically speaking, the proven thing is the winner in the long run. If any franchise ever had every one of their premium pitching prospects turn out to be Matt Garza, they would so far off the charts ahead of what any franchise has achieved to date its ridiculous
Now the uber-prospects DO come along — once a decade or so. In the last fifteen years there have been all of TWO pitching prospects that I wouldve considered essentially untouchable gold. Mark Prior and Steven Strasburg . In truth, they were really prospects – they were both ready almost from the get-go –
And you see what happened with Prior – so even the surest of things fizzles before reaching Garza’s career achoevemtns about half the time
One uber prospect every ten years. We dont have three or five in our organization at once just because the Braves are our favorite team.
And Teheran isnt that guy.
And even on the off chance that he is, in the long run, when you do that trade over and over, the bird in the hand is the winner
The purpose of prospects is to end up with quality major league players – but the idea is to get some team to give you their quality big league players for your prospects
This is an old arguement. The guys who dont get it never will. They are the ones who wouldnt trade Pastornicky for Carlos Beltran last year
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:41 pm
I see that the young among us, as always, believe in their immortality. I’d hate to think you boys weren’t taking me seriously. I mean, I’d really, really hate that.
DS1
June 21st, 2012
4:41 pm
Whew…………. looks like I dodged a bullet four shore.
CaptMudd
June 21st, 2012
4:41 pm
The blog has ‘full-timers’ and ‘part-timers,’ of the two there are bound to be a few ingrates–common sense should allow the process of blog [witty] content to remain civil…..kind of a gingerly delivered and passionately created kindness….that’s all it takes….many of us refer to this dynamic as ‘brotherly love.’ I leave you, my friends with this query: Can we make DOB proud by maintaining the integrity of this bloggage?
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:42 pm
I can’t think of anything more depressing than a team where most, or all of it’s current players where cast offs and free agent acquisitions who were older and didn’t have much of a track record of success. I mean, that’d be a bad baseball team. I want young players who are exciting to watch, have a minor leagyue track record of success – and also have scouts and player development people gushing over their skillset. Of course, they need to produce at some point, but let’s not tear them to pieces when they are 21 years old, struggling and battling their swing mechanics. You could say they’ve been awful. That’s fine. But gooid lord, every single friggin game… Just sayin….
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:42 pm
Teheran is like barely 21 years old, the two above mentioned guys (Prior and Strasberg) were both college pitchers. You can’t really compare the two at all.
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
4:43 pm
Or, for that matter, who don’t ever even play for the Braves like Rodrigo LOpez last year. People here melted down over his acquisition. _ Lew
Ha, I remember that one, Lew. I amused myself on the blog for a little while posting overzealous arguments for and against. I was calling myself an idiot both ways.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:43 pm
Since coming up, Simmons has made every play I would have expected him to make and several I was extremely impressed with and he’s got a great arm. He’s definitely better offensively than I figured he’d be (to this point). Not ready to nominate him for the HOF alongside Ozzie quite yet, though.
kenhotlanta
June 21st, 2012
4:43 pm
Duke: The words “retard” and “retarded” are considered nasty and not PC, at least around here. Lots of folks on here have those symptoms, but you don’t call them that…”maroon” or “and idiot” is acceptable and applies to several daily posters.
David O'Brien
June 21st, 2012
4:46 pm
Braves notes: Beachy surgery goes as planned; Bethancourt named to Futures Game
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/06/21/beachy-surgery-successful-bethancourt-to-futures-game/
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:46 pm
They are the ones who wouldnt trade Pastornicky for Carlos Beltran last year
And the other guys, you, are the ones who would trade Tommy Hanson for Jake Peavy.
Generalizations about this sort of thing are always wrong, because a specific prospect isn’t “in general”. Each player has to evaluated on his own merits, not on the sweeping “one out of ten” rule. Especially at the higher minor league levels.
DAP
June 21st, 2012
4:47 pm
shaun Or if you aren’t smart enough to understand sarcasm,
poor attempt at sarcasm in my opinion. its not that im too stupid, klaw just sucks at it.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:48 pm
The purpose of prospects is to end up with quality major league players – but the idea is to get some team to give you their quality big league players for your prospects
Service time must be considered here. It just has to. Garza for two playoff runs, that’s great. But this team has a 90 million dollar payroll and it’s flat. Not going up. Just isn’t. So the way to win long term is to keep those prospects, ones like Teheran. I get that you have to go for it sometimes. I wanted to trade Minor or Delgado for Beltran last year because I f’n love the guy and we would of made the playoffs had we done that no questions asked. But this time, it doesn’t feel the same. I like Teheran a lot more than I did Minor, even last year. And I liked what Carlos could of given this team last year more than I like what Garza can give us this year.
nolie
June 21st, 2012
4:49 pm
Pastornicky for Beltran?
like that was ever gonna happen
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:50 pm
scoots – the voice of reason. Well said. brother. Mike Minor and Julio Teheran aren’t the same “prospect” to me. Just like Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman and Tommy Hanson weren’t the same.
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
4:51 pm
Some people just simply do not understand this(not saying you don’t, Bat).
I understand. Still you have to fill out minor league rosters for those guys to have someone to compete with. Most of those guys are not gonna make it.
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:51 pm
like that was ever gonna happen
I think Robert was going for a little hyperbole there. Or not, maybe.
Might have been taking sarcasm lessons from Law, possibly.
ncgary
June 21st, 2012
4:51 pm
sure nolie and ther mutts were gonna pay his salary and extend his contract for us too
DS1
June 21st, 2012
4:53 pm
Not sure where anybody is seeing Matt Garza as anything better than a strong 3. Has been pretty consistent since becoming a full timer with a high 3’s ERA.
Not sure I want to trade the #1 pitching prospect in the majors not long ago for this pitcher.
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
4:53 pm
Yeah when I think PC I think of this blog
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:53 pm
“Teheran is like barely 21 years old, the two above mentioned guys (Prior and Strasberg) were both college pitchers. You can’t really compare the two at all.”
And if you read what I said, you’ll notice that my whole point is that they are not the same thing at all
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:54 pm
Hey, the Giants went for it. And now the Mets have Zach Wheeler and the Giants have Brian Sabean….who is terrible.
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:55 pm
“And the other guys, you, are the ones who would trade Tommy Hanson for Jake Peavy.”
And I’d also trade Adam Wainwright for JD Drew and Eli Marrero
And the point is that despite those two examples, trading for the sure thing is the winner in the long run
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:55 pm
id venture to say anyone not impressed with simmons so far isnt paying attention, particularly on defense.
DAP, exactly. This is what gives away the sarcasm of Law’s statement.
Robert, It’s not as simple as Garza versus Teheran. It’s also about the fact that you’re giving up 6 years of Teheran at a low cost for something like a year-and-a-half of Garza for a significantly higher price.
Garza is maybe going to give you anywhere from 4-10 wins for somewhere around $15M-$16M while Teheran might give you some wins for a lot less or might give you nothing.
Is it worth $15M-$16M for 4-10 more wins above a replacement pitcher through the end of next season and taking the chance that Teheran doesn’t become much of anything, or is it better to take your chances that you can find close to that number of wins without paying that much and without giving up Teheran?
It’s not just a matter of how many wins a player may be worth. It’s also about what you’re paying per win, and what you are risking giving up in order for the privilege to pay whatever the amount per win.
nolie
June 21st, 2012
4:56 pm
yup, prolly more PCs than Macs Jeffrey….
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:56 pm
I’ll try and refrain from using “Retard” and “Retarded”. You’re right.
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:57 pm
Yeah when I think PC I think of this blog
Yeah, it can get a little ripe in here at times. Still, I’m reminded of the guy who said: If you call “a fool” the man who thinks we can all get along, what word is left for the man who doesn’t?
We can all try a little harder to be “fools”, I guess.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:57 pm
Wayne, I consider him a solid #2 starter type or strong #3 if you want, but more #2.
Garza has been pretty damn good as a Cub too. Last years stats were very strong. He’s playing in front of an awful team this year and he also seems like a guy that would love to be thrown into a pennant race.
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:57 pm
“Pastornicky for Beltran?”
nolie – you know very well that if that had been suggested last year, there woulda been knucklegheads that wouldve said no we cant trade oiur future Gold Glove All-Star shortstop of the decade for six weeks od Carlos Beltran
NOW it’s obvious to everybody. But dude, you cant bluff after the cards have been turned over
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:58 pm
Robert
you seemed to be saying that we should trade Teheran for Garza because Teheran isn’t gonna be Strasberg
that’s not a very baseball smart move, you don’t trade a young phenom for maybe for 1.5 seasons of a low 2 high 3 pitcher like Garza.
That’s crazy talk, and it kinda sums up the whole “me now and to hell with the future” culture of our society these days
DS1
June 21st, 2012
4:58 pm
PC here, w/ Mozilla Firefox………..
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:59 pm
“It’s also about the fact that you’re giving up 6 years of Teheran at a low cost for something like a year-and-a-half of Garza for a significantly higher price. ”
I understand that
In my view, one legit shot to win a championship is better than fielding a cheap team for the next six years. Or six hundred
I trade Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz. Sometimes you lose, but if you dont make those deals, you will NEVER win it all
Robert
June 21st, 2012
4:59 pm
I meant I trade Smoltz to GET Doyle Alexander
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:59 pm
And the point is that despite those two examples, trading for the sure thing is the winner in the long run
And could get ya fired. Honestly, Wren’s looking long term here and always has. Call him a bit too conservative, but that’s fine by me. It’s a middle of the pack payroll, and you pay dearly for trading away 0-3 players with the talent of Teheran for a guy you’re not likely to re-sign.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:59 pm
Apparently, Robert has been scouting all of Teheran’s outings this year and the last few years to be able to make a definitive judgment on his abilities.
Hell, Teheran is the same age as many people that were drafted in the 2012 draft…
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
5:00 pm
no we cant trade oiur future Gold Glove All-Star shortstop of the decade for six weeks od Carlos Beltran
When did anybody ever say that about Pastornicky??
Robert
June 21st, 2012
5:00 pm
If you sell a man a winning lottery ticket, congratulate him and ask him if he’d like to buy another one
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
Efrim
Hey, I like Garza. Just not for Teheran at 9.5 mil per on a team with salary constraints.
Robert
June 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
Let the CUBS figure out if Teheran will ever actually be a star. And if he becomes one, then give them the next two prospects to get him back for a title run
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
One thing that worries me about Garza is that his HR/9 makes a jump from 0.26 at Home to 2.09 Away. his BB% goes up from 1.83 home to 3.14 away too
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
5:02 pm
Apparently, Robert has been scouting all of Teheran’s outings this year
Then I’ve been sliding down the rabbit-hole to a parallel dimension when I’ve seen Julio, I think. That can’t be good for a guy my age.
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
5:03 pm
I can’t believe people are even considering Teheran for Garza.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
5:03 pm
then give them the next two prospects to get him back for a title run
Right like we did with Elvis and Wainwright?
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:03 pm
Efrim
and as a long term Braves fan, I too love to be able to relate to a lot of the players on the team. Much easier when a predominance of them come up through your system.
You hit the nail on the head.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:04 pm
Robert…
that’s the kind of Mentality that leaves farm systems in shambles, teams in salary trouble and GM’s out of work.
You NEVER trade your top prospects unless their position is blocked by a present day star. NEVER, all those who have tried have failed.
I bet you thought JS’s horrible deal to get Tex was a good move too
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
5:05 pm
I can’t believe people are even considering Teheran for Garza
Robert is not “people”. He’s one voice, off-tune and at the top of his lungs, maybe, but just one.
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:06 pm
Heck, I’d have a hard time dealing Delgado straight up for Garza, even if we did have the money to make it work.
Rob’t
The Tigers did the right thing dealing Smoltz for Alexander. That trade worked out for both clubs.
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
5:06 pm
In my view, one legit shot to win a championship is better than fielding a cheap team for the next six years. Or six hundred
Yeah, you’re the same guy that said one World Series was worth a hundred divisions. The Braves still have something like ninety to go, yet you’ve been bitching all along.
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
5:06 pm
The key is to continue to have good young talent coming up from the minors to replace players who start to get expensive. Most teams can’t afford to keep all the players they want, you gotta make a decisions on who to commit to long term and let the others go. Kinda like how the Braves have to decide if McCann is gonna be in the future plans or not based on young prospects and the future outlook of the budget.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
5:06 pm
Jeffery d — I can’t believe people are even considering Teheran for Garza.
Yes you can!! You’ve been on here longer than I… Nothing should shock you!
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
5:07 pm
I would rather trade Teheran for Wil Meyers. But those kinds of trades never happen.
kenhotlanta
June 21st, 2012
5:07 pm
Duke: Thank you. I worked with adults with development disabilities for 5 years and my Ex was a para-pro with pre-K special needs children for over 30 years…it we had used those words at work or around parents and family, we would have been fired immediately.
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
5:08 pm
I mean…I know you’ve gotta give something to get something, but how is Teheran for Garza comparable at all?
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
5:09 pm
If we had 200 million payroll like some teams and were able to plug holes with $$$$ then we might make bold moves, but we don’t so we have to use our farm responsibly!!
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:09 pm
Teheran for Wil Myers? Now you’ve perked my interest!
cricket
June 21st, 2012
5:11 pm
I can’t believe people are even considering Teheran for Garza.
luckily braves’ GM is not as smart as these people..
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:11 pm
Let the CUBS figure out if Teheran will ever actually be a star. And if he becomes one, then give them the next two prospects to get him back for a title run
I think Braves fans are spoiled due to the fact that they have been a player development machine for much of the last 20 years. It’s very possible that there is a dry period and you really shouldn’t think that we’ll just be able to flip the next set of prospects for above average major leaguers or stars.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:13 pm
You hit the nail on the head.
Thanks, man. Call me a prospect hugger, but there is something more there when the kid is drafted, developed and brought into the majors by the same team and watched/tracked by the same fans since his draft day. Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, etc….these guys are my faves.
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
5:13 pm
Aren’t the Phillies of recent years the poster child for your methodology, Robert?
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
5:14 pm
Forgot to add McCann’s projected ability and production for say the next 6 years or so as well.
My opinion on McCann has more to do about the Braves as a whole going forward. It’s not that McCann isn’t worth top dollar. But as an organization does it make sense that our highest paid player would be a catcher who plays around 130 games a season and most of his contract taking place after 30 years of age. Plus noting that he was horrible in the 2nd half of 2011 and now is having a well below average season in 2012. McCann could possibly almost account for 20% of our payroll (roughly 90 million) Which would be 18 million a season.
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:14 pm
Baseball GM job. Damned hard job four shore. We all like to sit and speculate about this move or that move, but that dude (Frank Wren) must have some strong anti-ulcer drugs to keep from getting a hole in his stomach………..
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:14 pm
Crazy hits it too. It’s a 90-95 million dollar payroll right now, and for the forseeable future. Wren understands this and gets that we need to operate knowing that there are limitations to what we can do.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:15 pm
Here is the rational reason why making drastic trades don’t mean trips to the World Series anymore.
Since the advent of the Wild Card, the best teams in baseball (those with the best record) are no longer close to a shoe in to at least play in the LCS anymore. In fact in the 17 years since the WC was created there have been 10 appearances in it by Wild Card teams and 5 wild card wins.
Now, since this pretty much show that winning the world series is no longer about building the best team, but rather getting the luckiest in your matchups and “hot streak timing”. Imagine how it’s going to be with the addition of one more playoff team per league? I imagine that we will see an increase in wild card teams winning the world series of around 10-20% over the next decade. (so instead of 5 wins in 16 season, might see 6 or 7).
This negates drastic moves like say Texiera deal, or Doyle for Smoltz. The rate of return even for a team with the best record on a rental is likely to be zero relative to just last year and also relative to 17 years ago.
Now , if you are a team like the Pirates and are dancing the edges of talent and have a decent farm AND recent problems with winning records, it IS worth it to attempt to spend some prospects in the hope of making the playoffs as the financial return alone will pay for the deal . Teams like the Braves, whose high prospects on the farm have been recently incorporated onto the MLB roster , much be more prudent. If they ignore the future at the expense of a lottery ticket (which is the odds of winning the WS in the wild card era) then they could end up joining the Pirates in palookaville
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:16 pm
Aren’t the Phillies of recent years the poster child for your methodology, Robert?
Exactly. And they’ll still be good next year and the year after. But it’s going to have to come from spending in the free agent market, because let me tell you, it’s a very, very bad system that isn’t going to be able to produce much of anything over the next few years. That’s scary for them. Not to say they’ll be bad, but it’s going to be really hard for Amaro and he can’t F up on any contracts.
George Stein
June 21st, 2012
5:16 pm
So we’re talking Keith Law and Jose Costanza? In other news, the sun rose in the east.
It is nice to see that Julio Teheran is going to be the scourge of the blog. I’m planning my material now.
JeanE
June 21st, 2012
5:16 pm
Heard Brandon had his TJ surgery with Dr. Andrews, sigh. Glad he went ahead and got it done but we’ll miss his fabulous pitching and his gorgeous mug out there for the Bravos. Also heard Brooksie got picked up on waivers by the TB Rays. Good luck to him. Hope JJ is better than he’s looked in Gwinnett, here is his chance to show something to both himself and the team.
DS1
June 21st, 2012
5:17 pm
Gonna run for a while. I HATE off days. You’d think the commish would ban ‘em.
There were a lot of folks talking about the Braves being intimidated by the Yankees. I bet Joe Girardi is darned glad the Braves were intimidated by his Yankees, else he’d of gotten his azz handed to him the past 6 meetings if we were a confident team, huh.
Bo Graves!
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
5:19 pm
Exactly. And they’ll still be good next year and the year after.
But…will Robert be satisfied with their one, single WS win?
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:19 pm
It’s Jesse Biddle, Trevor May and a bucnh of question marks.
Not saying the Braves system is elite, but they have more than the Phillies.
nolie
June 21st, 2012
5:19 pm
brandon is so homely that they refused to do tjs unless a plastic surgeon was attending in case he woke up…
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
5:20 pm
And even those two have more warts than many top prospects.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
5:20 pm
Robert, but what if you can make up those wins or a significant chunk of the wins that Garza would give you without trading Teheran and at a lower cost in terms of contract? That’s a huge consideration, as well.
Also, the Tigers in 1987 finished two games ahead of the Blue Jays. Every win mattered more then than it does now in terms of getting an opportunity in the postseason. Now teams can make the playoffs easier and there may not be much difference between winning 90 games and 87 games, at least not to the same degree as when there were only two playoff teams in a league and winning the division was the only way to get in.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
5:24 pm
NickB, another consideration. Good point. Get in and you are one of only four playoff teams, so you have an excellent shot at a World Series. Now you get in and you are one of 10 playoff teams. Just getting that extra win that gets you in isn’t as special. Now, if a trade makes you the clear World Series favorite, maybe it’s worth it. But if a trade makes you the first wild card instead of the second, it’s probably not worth it. Or even if a trade makes you a division winner versus a wild card, while that’s more worthwhile, it still may not be worth it because you still are more likely to get bounced than you were when there were just four playoff teams total.
George Stein
June 21st, 2012
5:25 pm
If you can guarantee me the World Series, you make the trade.
But this is the issue – it’s a false dilemma. The Braves can win it all this year without Garza, and they could lose it with him.
Frankie Wren
June 21st, 2012
5:25 pm
“Heard Brandon had his TJ surgery with Dr. Andrews, sigh.”
Not only that, but it’s been called successful TJ surgery. Has it ever not been called that?
Doc Andrews, “well not one of my best days at the office, not sure this boy is going to get out A hitters after this”. Just not a day you can tip your hat to the physician of record. My bad.
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
5:30 pm
Unsuccessful TJ surgery probably means you have a dead patient.
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
5:30 pm
Andrews: You’ve really got to tip your cap to that ligament. He had his best stuff today.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
5:31 pm
George Stein, not just guarantee. If adding the relatively few wins that Garza would likely provide would greatly increase the odds, I would say make the trade. But when trading for Garza, at best, helps you to win a division versus winning a wild card spot and you still have to win three series to win it all, I’m not giving up Teheran for Garza, and paying a chunk of Garza’s salary until the end of next season.
But if we can get Garza for a lesser cost, I’m fine with that.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
June 21st, 2012
5:35 pm
Trading pitching for position players is invariably risky because at the end of the day, pitching is always your best value.
However, Garza is a starting pitcher and a proven one at that. But if all this hyperbole is actually real, it would be nice to see my Bravos pick up a bat from the Cubbies along with Garza. They badly need help along the bench.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:35 pm
Take the 2011 Cardinals for example, they weren’t the best team, they weren’t even the 3rd best team in the NL. But they rode a hot streak to a world series…….
20 years ago they would have just been another team who missed the playoffs, looking to improve for the next season.
I am not of the opinion that a starter like Garza will make or break the team. In reality , he probably only adds 3-4 wins over a replacement level pitcher, and only 1 or 2 over an average pitcher. I’m not so sure that’s going to be the Braves problem with our young hitting.
here is the earned runs given up by Garza in his 13 starts this year, 2,0,6,2,0,1,2,7,5,2,2,3,3 35 runs in 77 innings
that looks pretty decent right?
Here are the earned runs given up by Minor in his 13 starts this year
6,0,1,3,7,8,6,6,4,4,1,1,4 51 runs in 76 innings (and 27 in 4 starts)
Now, I’m not saying Minor is equal to Garza right now, but I’m not 100% sure that we should be trading someone like Delgado or Teheran for 16 less earned runs in 13 starts. especially, when ,aside from the mentioned 4 starts, Minor has been decent.
Delgado’s starts for the heck of it :2,3,5,4,2,1,0,4,4,3,1,3,2 34 earned runs in 74.1 innings
looks to me like Delgado is fairly equal to Garza
Changing Names Because I Can!
June 21st, 2012
5:36 pm
I’m sorry, I have been posting under the moniker of Sam from Arkansas.
I know it’s shameful, but I am actually Jerry from New Hampshire. I feel guilty. I feel dirty. I may never post again.
BTW…… Robert isn’t always right…. but he isn’t always wrong, either. He was right about how fans fall in love with their prospects. The fans that fall in love with their prospects are the ones I would love to be selling door-to-door to if I were a salesman. Those folks seem to buy everything that a teams GM, PR arm and local media tell them about how great their prospects are.
George Stein
June 21st, 2012
5:37 pm
The issue I would really want to know before making a Garza trade is whether or not he’s clutch.
I do think folks forget the financial considerations, Shaun.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:38 pm
If you just go and look at the minor league numbers (and understand which leagues favor pitchers or hitters) you can judge prospects for yourself with a fairly high degree of accuracy
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
June 21st, 2012
5:38 pm
World Series? Bravos? 2012?
No and I mean NO. No way in hell is this team is ready to compete in the playoffs right now. We have all seen how streaky they are along with their penchant for injury and underachievement. The caveat is…we haven’t seen them at their best, at least not yet.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:39 pm
George Stein
I would assume that any Garza deal would involve the Cubs chipping in a good deal of money too
George Stein
June 21st, 2012
5:40 pm
You would think so, NickB, as there won’t be the first round pick that would come with a type A free agent because of the new CBA rules.
Changing Names Because I Can!
June 21st, 2012
5:42 pm
To heck with making any deals. The Braves are too far away to make a deal that will take them to the promised land this year.
Just wait until Chipper and Lowe come off the books and try something next year that looks like it might “hunt.” But Frank? Don’t blow smoke again like you did this past Winter and tell the fans you “have enough” to compete for/in the playoffs. Either make the team better or just shut up.
SMOLTZ 29
June 21st, 2012
5:43 pm
All of our prospects are trade chips! Prospects come and go……….BUT FLAGS FLY FOREVER!
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:43 pm
Here’s the caveat to this though, Garza will be in his last year of arby next year and will likely get $10 milllion + , unless the team is going to sell him in the offseason, I don’t think we want that extra $10 mill keeping us from acquiring a CF and LF for next year, Unless you want to drop Hudson and his $9 mill salary (which you don’t cuz his value per $$ is better than Garza’s probably)
jeffrey d
June 21st, 2012
5:44 pm
Can we at least wait until the All Star Break before we write off the season?
NickB
June 21st, 2012
5:45 pm
This team is good enough to win it all. It really is, now ,IMO, all we NEED to do , is buttress the bench and the bullpen. One lefty Bench bat and one right handed reliever who can also get lefty’s out. We could probably get the reliever for Francisco form an AL team, as his youth and raw power DO carry value over there
cabravesfan
June 21st, 2012
5:45 pm
jeffrey-
Really?? People wrote off the season in spring training!