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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,709 comments Add your comment
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
3:36 pm
Do you mean Bourn in left, Ward. I’m not really big on dumping Heyward.
Frankie Wren
June 21st, 2012
3:38 pm
“Did you know…the last NL team to average 7 innings per start from their starting pitchers was the 1977 Dodgers. That rotation was Don Sutton, Tommy John, Rick Rhoden, Burt Hooten, and Doug Rau.”
I believe that was the year they had 4 guys hit 30 homeruns as well. Garvey, Reggie Smith, Dusty and The Penguin.
DAP
June 21st, 2012
3:38 pm
i think the braves need a bat more because their bench is weak. i dont know who to replace…i like all of them, but depth is not something i feel like we have right now. a solid starter wouldnt hurt, but id rather have a strong bench player, and/or bullpen arm who can pitch the 7th/8th/9th. id be looking at doumit, headley, quentin, scutaro, capps, diamond, league, street, ect.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
3:40 pm
Braves need starters to go 7 innings, or 8 innings.
What is the MLB avg for innings pitched for starters right now in the National League and what is our avg. I know someone can look that up??
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
3:40 pm
Frankie Wren, pretty amazing, isn’t it? The Braves are fielding a competitive major league team and a lot of regulars are the same age as the typical Double-A player.
With the Braves falling off from their 1990’s/early-2000’s heydays, it’s easy to forget that their drafting and player development and luck with young players has been stellar over the past 5-6 years.
SNEAKY PETE
June 21st, 2012
3:41 pm
says the Heyward hating Brava
dunnellonbrave
June 21st, 2012
3:42 pm
i went to the series in St. Pete when Chipper got hurt. I’m sure some other Braves fans have mentioned this. Why didn’t Freddie DH Chipper that series and play Francisco at 3B? If he didn’t play a 40 year old inn the field who knows how many more games the Braves would have won and if Chipper would have stayed hot. I know its second guessing but still.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
3:42 pm
Crazy – Wren’s in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t situation. Half will get ticked if he trades our talent and half will get pissed if he doesn’t. And half will get upset if he does and it’s not who they want. (kudos to Yogi’s math)
Robert
June 21st, 2012
3:43 pm
“1.5 years of Garza for 6 years of Teheran is steep, Robert. If you think it’s fair, then you’re probably down on Teheran”
I’m not down on Teheran. I just realize that in any trade that is going to happen, we are going to be paid for what he is, which is a prospect, a maybe
Look at the odds. What fraction of frist rate pitching prospects ever become as good as Garza? (who is a quality big league pitcher but not a big stud by any means) It’s way less than one out of ten. If I’m gonna trade Garza, why would I trade for a ten percent chance of ever coming out even player=wise unless I’m saving a BUNCH of money?
Robert
June 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
Think of it this way – statistically speaking, what’s better – a $10 bill in your pocket or ten $1 scratch-off lottery tickets?
Ward
June 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
Lew – Very well said…….but I have never liked Wren since he got in. He’s too high on himself. I think I’ve been fair on that.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
Lew… Thankfully Frank could give a damn about anyones opinion on here!!
Ward
June 21st, 2012
3:46 pm
Personally I think Teharan is over rated, and we have to trade one of our prospects. Can’t let them all rot in the Minors……
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
3:47 pm
He’s too high on himself.
Find me a GM in any sport who isn’t high on himself or confident in himself and I’ll likely be able to show you an unsuccessful GM.
SNEAKY PETE
June 21st, 2012
3:47 pm
You have fair on something that you know absolutely nothing about Ward? Is that even possible?
SNEAKY PETE
June 21st, 2012
3:47 pm
You have fair on something that you know absolutely nothing about Ward? Is that even possible?
Ward
June 21st, 2012
3:50 pm
Until Wren gets us to the Post – Season he’s not even great. Where have the Braves gone since he’s been in? I rest my case.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
3:50 pm
Ward,
They aren’t all rotting in the minors. They are developing…
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
3:51 pm
Robert, I think you’re overrating Garza or the impact of any one player. In his best season, last year, Garza was a 5-wins-above-replacement player. His next best seasons have been around 3 wins. Now 3 wins is not insignificant in a close playoff race, of course. But are you willing to give up 6 years of Teheran by betting that those 3-5 wins are the difference between making the playoffs and missing, and that you can’t get those 3-5 wins at a lower price?
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
3:51 pm
Personally I think Teharan is over rated—-Ward
Have many times have you seen the man pitch? I bet you would’ve been ready to ship out John Smoltz after his 2-7 5.48 in 1988 or Tom Glavine’s 7-17 season in 1988. Not saying Teheran is anywhere close to those guys, but you are far from capable of making that judgment!
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
3:52 pm
Ward Frank was GM in 2010??
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
3:53 pm
Don’t you know, part of Frank Wren’s job description is being humble enough for the masses to accept? You know that whole building a winner the best he can with the budget he has, that’s secondary.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
3:55 pm
Ward – Wren doesn’t come vaguely close to standing out in a sport where one of the basic tenets to even make it is being sold on yourself.
Ward
June 21st, 2012
3:55 pm
Guy’s can’t blame the budget for ever, and next year it will be the budget again. It’s always the budget with Wren. Like I said before,” You can’t hold on the propsects for ever…..”
usnavyvolfaninva
June 21st, 2012
3:56 pm
Robert,
Answer: you don’t know until you scratch off the lottery tickets.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
3:58 pm
Ward-Like I said before,” You can’t hold on the propsects for ever…..”
So, how long have Delgado and Teheran been in the minors? It’s not like they are 25 and still producing mediocre results…
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
3:59 pm
Cody (Atlanta, GA)
Do you still see Jason Heyward as a future All-Star? How impressed have you been with Simmons?
Klaw (1:15 PM)
Yes, I do. Not at all.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:00 pm
Ward – It’s always the budget with Wren? Seriously Dude, what part of the Braves only have a limited amount of money to spend in a sport where the poorest paid make four times what a erson making good money in the private sector makes do you not understand?
You might be able to put the electric bill on a credit card when you want to buy something you can’t fit into your budget, but Wren doesn’t have that luxury – especially when salaries keep going up and up and the Braves’ payroll remains stagnant.
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:00 pm
Larry (Ohio)
Who do you consider the best defensive SS in MLB today? And do you think Simmons has the potential to be the best?
Klaw (1:26 PM)
On tools alone, it’s Simmons.
Brava
June 21st, 2012
4:01 pm
Brava: I’m not part of the Heyward Man Love Club… I had no problem with Constanza starting over Heyward last year. I just wished it was more temporary and that we would’ve gotten Pence or some RF to play over him… I like Constanza as a player, but he’s not starting material for the Braves.
No, you’re not. You weren’t here last season. I’d like to have gotten Pence, as well, but in hindsight, am glad we got Bourn. I pray Wren will find a way to resign him. As for Constanza, if Wren is not going to get some solid bench players, I’d like to see him replace Francisco, who is contributing very little to the team. I know Fredi doesn’t want Martin being shuttled back and forth from LF to 3B when Chipper doesn’t play, but we are a much better defensive team when Martin plays third and Constanza plays LF than any other combination. Despite all the hatred here, he does have some value. That said, I would prefer that Wren get some good bench players, as that is a glaring weakness on this team. Hinske, Wilson and Francisco are taking up valuable roster spots that Wren should be able to upgrade without breaking the bank.
Ward
June 21st, 2012
4:01 pm
Duke – If you want to make it to the Post – Season? You have to be bold, and make the trades. Do you see Cashman doing what Wren is doing?
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:01 pm
Keith Law not impressed with Simmons… Not surprised since he does not like the Braves.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:02 pm
Ward… blaming Wren for the budget now?? Jesus he isn’t the Owner!!
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:03 pm
Ward
Maybe we should be bold and do another Tex deal? Good idea man. What is Cashman doing? Spending money that he has to spend? What is Wren doing wrong that you don’t actually like my man? Explain to us all so we can have a better idea what you don’t like.
Ward
June 21st, 2012
4:03 pm
Crazy – Wren gets the players for the team, and he’s calling the shots.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:04 pm
Guy’s can’t blame the budget for ever, and next year it will be the budget again. It’s always the budget with Wren. Like I said before,” You can’t hold on the propsects for ever…..”
The Braves have the 10th-best record in the majors since Wren took over as GM.
If we give Wren a couple of years, the idea being that it may have taken him a couple of years to put his stamp on the team, they have the 2nd-best record in the NL since the start of the 2010 season. I think it’s fair to make that the rough starting point of the Frank Wren era. The 2010 Braves just seems like the first Frank Wren team.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:05 pm
Do you see Cashman doing what Wren is doing?
You can’t compare a team with us that has almost triple our budget!! We have to use our farm more responsible than a team with a high payroll.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:06 pm
Claiming that a player has the best defensive tools among all shortstops means one is not impressed?
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:06 pm
Crazy – Wren gets the players for the team, and he’s calling the shots.
And he has no control over the budget!!
nolie
June 21st, 2012
4:06 pm
good to see that I’m not the onliest double poster today….
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:06 pm
No, you’re not. You weren’t here last season.
Actually, I was here last year, and the year before that, but under different names. Didn’t post much then.
ncbravesfan90
June 21st, 2012
4:06 pm
Keith Law sounds like a politican with those contradicting statements haha.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:07 pm
Shaun
Cody (Atlanta, GA)
Do you still see Jason Heyward as a future All-Star? How impressed have you been with Simmons?
Klaw (1:15 PM)
Yes, I do. Not at all.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:07 pm
It always amazes me that people think they can make a definitive judgment about a player that they’ve barely seen and do it better than a MLB organization. Even if you think the organization is ran by baboons, it’s still knows its players better than you.
Ward
June 21st, 2012
4:07 pm
Good debate……..but I like boldness, and that’s the way you get things done. All it’was good talking, and enjoyed it. I believe, until Braves get into the Post – Season? Wren is not even a great Gm. Peace my friends…..Got to go, but talk later tonight. “Go!!!!!Braves!!!!!”
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:07 pm
Keith Law isn’t impressed cause he expected Simmons to be amazing defensively and making contact. He easily thinks Simmons will be the best defensive shortstop in baseball.
Brava
June 21st, 2012
4:07 pm
says the Heyward hating Brava
I don’t hate Heyward, liar. Never have. I just don’t have a lot of patience with people who under-perform. Never have. It’s not in my nature. I’m glad he’s doing better and have been one of his biggest cheerleaders.
The name Sneaky Pete serves you well. You can sit behind a computer and take potshots at people you don’t even know like the coward that you are.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:08 pm
Ward =- Yes, he DOES get the players for the team – with a limited amount of money to do what needs doing. Until you understand this and realize that Wren has no control over it, you’re going to continue to sound clueless. Really kind of stupid to hate a person for things beyond their control.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:08 pm
Ward’s comments are borderline retarded. Later dude
Brava
June 21st, 2012
4:10 pm
Actually, I was here last year, and the year before that, but under different names. Didn’t post much then.
Well, then, if you were a Constanza hater, you were in stealth mode.
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:12 pm
Our needs are a bench bat or two, RP, and SP, in that order. Francisco and Hinske need to step it up or be replaced, wouldn’t mind seeing an offensive upgrade at backup SS either.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:12 pm
I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm. “How impressed have you been with Simmons?” is a clown question, bro.
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:12 pm
I think Wren does a helluva job with what he has to work with. This upcoming offseason will be huge.
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:14 pm
I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm.
Law obviously forgot that most people are too stupid to undertand his witty repartee.
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:14 pm
Well, then, if you were a Constanza hater, you were in stealth mode.
lol, not a Constanza hater… it was just that back then, I didn’t post much, so would always have to come up with a different name… teenagedbravesfan, bravesfan, bravesfaninknnsaw,kennesawbravesfan… it was endless. Anyways, glad to have this name, much easier to remember me by!
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:16 pm
I think I finally figured it out!! Some people want to see us overpay for players so they’ll have something to bich about for the next 5 years… Wainwright got us to the Tex deal and the Tex deal got us to the Teheran, Bethancourt, Gilmartin for Garza. Then we can trade Garza the next year for a player that will get injured and walk at the end of the 2014 season!! All while the Cubs go on to contend for Titles with our players and were stuck with a New GM that want’s to put a different stamp on the franchise!!
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:17 pm
I think Wren does a helluva job with what he has to work with. This upcoming offseason will be huge
Definitely…. just imagine how good he could be if he had even just 20mil more to work with…
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:17 pm
Shaun: I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm.
Pretty sure or positive?
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:17 pm
until Braves get into the Post – Season? Wren is not even a great Gm.
Did I dream we made the playoffs in 2010?
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
4:18 pm
Ward’s comments are borderline retarded. Later dude
Are they? Who is the puppet master and who is the puppet?
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:18 pm
I’m not a Constanza hater – I just really don’t care one way or another.
Pretty much how I feel. He’s not important enough to the organization to get worked up about. Wasn’t last year. Won’t be. Decent chance he’s with another organization next year. He’s a journeyman outfielder.
He isn’t a 22 year old, corner outfielder with an above average skillset who posted a .390+ OBP as a 20 year old, got hurt – played hurt during his second season, and is now getting back to being productive because he’s healthy and the swing isn’t being altered by a shoulder injury…..
Hah!
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:18 pm
Duke…. earlier KLaw said Simmons has the best tools of any SS in the game. So I think it was sarcasm.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:19 pm
Interesting point made on a recent telecast – The Yankees’ infielders make about what the entire Braves’ team makes.
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:19 pm
Wren is slated to have almost 50 million coming off the books. (Thats including JJ and EOF getting the boot)
After ARB raises we should have somewhere around 25 million to spend, depending on if LM changes the Payroll or not.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:19 pm
That’s their starting infield – doesn’t include their back up infielders.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:19 pm
Shaun made a funny. And yes, that was obviously sarcasm on Law’s part. Simmons has been up for NY minute.
Not enough time for the “hatred” to start on this blog.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:20 pm
Crazy, I agree, but without the other answer how do you know with KLaw? Am I supposed to tell by 4 words that are typed in a chat where he usually has very short answers that it is sarcasm?
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:20 pm
I mean a person doesn’t say that a player has the best defensive tools of any shortstop then say he’s not impressed with said shortstop when a person from Atlanta asks how impressed he’s been.
Think it through, folks. Or if you aren’t smart enough to understand sarcasm, just ignore what the media says about your team and just enjoy the games.
CB
June 21st, 2012
4:21 pm
I knew that Harper would be part of Shaun’s repartee. I wonder why.
CB
June 21st, 2012
4:22 pm
quote.
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:23 pm
Shaun, the comment about Simmons having the best defensive tools of any shortstop was posted after the one where he said he was not impressed. Had he posted those in different order I would see it as sasrcasm.
optimist
June 21st, 2012
4:23 pm
Simmons’ throws have been interesting to watch. His recent throws to 3rd and 2nd on two tag plays – right on top of the bag and low for the tag. His throws to first look like they get to Freddie right at his glove in front of the left shoulder. And his throwing decisions look “instinctive” where after the fact you realize – wow, how could he tell that he had a play there…
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:24 pm
Shaun, you are something else. Once and a while, you’ll throw in a comment like that 4:12 and make me laugh.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:24 pm
Duke… honestly unless it’s draft time I rarely read anything K Law says unless someone posts it here. And even then I don’t pay much attention.
flange1
June 21st, 2012
4:25 pm
it is quite amazing that us numbletards on the blog can even butter our own brad without Shaun teaching us how to do it!
Thanks you Shaun for gracing us lowly idiots with your presence! (and presents for those who lie blogisms)
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:25 pm
CraZy… I don’t either. I was just uber bored at work today and read his chat.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:25 pm
Here are the facts about Constanza: (stats, not bias)
23 games in August of 2011- .342/.392/.452 in 82 PA’s
12 games in September of 2011- .174/.174/.174 in 24 PA’s
3 games in Mar/Apr 2012- 000/000/000 in 3 PA’s
2 games in May 2012 – .571/ .571/.571 in 7 PA’s
7 games in Jun 2012- .182/.182/.227 in 22 PA’s
career: in 101 PA’s against righty’s he has hit .255/.286/362 for a .647 OPS
in 50 PA’s against lefty’s he has hit .362/.388/.362 for a .749 OPS
so , if you want to base you entire reasoning on Constanza occupying a precious 25 man roster spot on 50 plate appearances against lefty’s…. that’s pretty flimsy
VaBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:26 pm
Simmons also doesn’t show off the arm unless he has too.
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:26 pm
Shaun, it was a misleading comment from Law. If you hadn’t known the guy and were reading his chat for the first or second time, you’d of taken a double-take.
I took it as sarcasm, because I’ve read things Law has had to say about Simmons(80 glove/80 arm/60 speed), and they were all positive.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:26 pm
Is there a particular overriding reason that we shoud care what Keith Law says one way or the other?
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:27 pm
Duke, so answering a question about a player with whom everyone has been impressed with “I’m not at all impressed” isn’t obvious sarcasm?
Again, if you can’t see that that’s sarcasm, perhaps it’s time for you to completely ignore anything the media says about your favorite team and just watch and enjoy the games.
NickB
June 21st, 2012
4:28 pm
not to mention his fancy looking .291 career batting avg hides a mediocre looking career .320 OBP and a hideous .362 SLG% and a career .681 OPS
Brava
June 21st, 2012
4:28 pm
Ward’s comments are borderline retarded. Later dude
Ward is one of the best people on this blog, just so you know. I’d rather read his comments than a lot of the nasty ones. Like yours.
Bat Masterson
June 21st, 2012
4:28 pm
Pretty much how I feel. He’s not important enough to the organization to get worked up about. Wasn’t last year. Won’t be. Decent chance he’s with another organization next year. He’s a journeyman outfielder.
Here is where I tip my derby to a guy thats has been chasing his dream and grinding it out in the minors forever. Good luck, much respect.
CrαZy
June 21st, 2012
4:29 pm
I’m glad I don’t have a quick trigger with the submit button…… I would’ve been banned a long time ago!!
The Delete button is your friend!!
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:29 pm
Simmons also doesn’t show off the arm unless he has too.
That’s something I’ve noticed too. It’s not like Furcal or Escobar, who would gun it and try to sting the first baseman’s hand. Simmons, as you said, bases it on the situation. Much like Tulowitzski does.
B_F 54
June 21st, 2012
4:29 pm
@ bnrava I totally agree
ncscoots
June 21st, 2012
4:29 pm
I’m gonna personally track down the next person who makes a Constanza post, for or against, and shoot ‘em right in the lips. And I ain’t kidding.
B_F 54
June 21st, 2012
4:30 pm
Yes I like Ward and the bat sniffer
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:30 pm
And to think…. Poor Rev was showing off his arm and couldn’t kill a fly with it…. Sigh
DS1
June 21st, 2012
4:31 pm
Constanza is an OK 4th/5th outfielder. Never a hater. I really don’t hate anybody, especially Braves players.
I do think that some are more valuable than others. And I am one to think that sometimes you play a guy with potential over a mediocre player with a low ceiling (read Juan Francisco over George Constanza).
But there are limits to how far you go with a guy with “potential” too.
Shaun
June 21st, 2012
4:31 pm
Is there a particular overriding reason that we shoud care what Keith Law says one way or the other?
Guys like he and Kevin Goldstein are about the best around at reporting about prospects, at least amongst those working for major media companies. He also has some pretty good insight into front office since he used to work in one and has sources within the industry. So he’s pretty informative.
TheOnlyBravesFan
June 21st, 2012
4:32 pm
um, I just want to say that Con… he is not a….. erm, never mind!!!
B_F 54
June 21st, 2012
4:33 pm
Gotta go to work hot as hades in Massachucetts it may rain tommorrow 50% chance of thunderstorms and then it cools off wind 5 to 10 from the east
GO BRAVOS
Duke
June 21st, 2012
4:33 pm
Shaun, maybe you’re right. I’ll go back to not reading any articles or watching TV and just keep my ignorance to myself. Unless, of course, I one day figure out how to judge sarcasm and emotions through computer screens and become as intelligent as you are.
I bow to your all mighty manifestation of a high mental capacity.
ncgary
June 21st, 2012
4:33 pm
scoots meet wayne
wayne meet scoots ire
DS1
June 21st, 2012
4:34 pm
scoots
Haven’t been on all day, so sorry if I hit a nerve……..
nolie
June 21st, 2012
4:34 pm
nobody “hated” om Constanza today
Efrim
June 21st, 2012
4:34 pm
Is there a particular overriding reason that we shoud care what Keith Law says one way or the other?
He’s right about a lot of things. He’s worked in a front office. He’s a scout and seems to know what he;s talking about. The way he goes about expressing it leaves people having issues with him. Doesn’t bother me because he is fair with all teams. No bias. Everyone likes the guy that keeps gushing over your team/players/prospects – sort of how Tony DeMacio would sound when discussing a draft of his. Of course, he’s going to say glowing things about his draftees and Wren is going to gush over prospects. If they don’t, they wouldn’t be doing their job.
Lew
June 21st, 2012
4:35 pm
Bat – Absolutely. Seeing Georgie play like an All STar for amonth last year and living his dream large was great.
Just that there’s WAY too many column inches – hell, column yards – devoted to the 25th – 30th man on the team and who should fill those roles. Or, for that matter, who don’t ever even play for the Braves like Rodrigo LOpez last year. People here melted down over his acquisition.