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168 comments Add your comment
jim
June 19th, 2012
11:08 am
The comments on the Braves’ talent evaluation is apropos. What did they see in Francisco? How did they pass on Trout in the 2009 draft and pick Minor instead? Trout got less exposure playing in the Northeast, but the physical tools were obvious and the fact that he began tearing up the minors from day 1 meant that there were not many holes in his swing when he came out of high school. He’s probably a Boras client, but most of the top players are. There was the big right handed bat that we desperately need.
Skeezix
June 19th, 2012
11:10 am
Dave, as a follow on to your comments: “All teams have injuries. Injuries definitely disrupted this team when it was going well, but they’ve shown no ability to overcome injuries, to make adjustments and have others pick up the slack when a key play goes down, etc. Great or even really good teams do. This team hasn’t.”
The great coaches finds ways to deal with adversity. Cox had the ability to adapt quickly to adversity/changes–in fact I believe he was always planning/thinking ahead. Another great example would be Coach K. One year (I believe 1996) his team was decimated with injuries to key players. They had lost so many players didn’t have enough even to do 5 on 5 scrimmage. So he recruited Jay Heaps (now a head coach in MLS) from the soccer team and another student from the Duke track team……and plugged them–as the season progressed on Heaps ended up starting at guard. Both were in great shape and had been solid High School BB players. He coached that team to a 12-4 ACC conference record and 24 win season and got them into the NCAA tournament. No excuses–just deal with the adversity, coach the players you have, find a strategy that will win and motivate like hell.
darrell starks
June 19th, 2012
11:19 am
Freddie is just like the Hawks coach LD and have no clue.
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jim
June 19th, 2012
11:23 am
Good morning Whiskey River,
Such a loss is hard to bear, but the fact that it coincides with an event like Father’s Day makes those days so much harder to bear.
Chipper’s return to the lineup and Freddy Freeman’s continuing absence has caused Prado to move from Left to third to first on a revolving basis, and has probably contributed to his tail off in hitting over the past several games.
bruce mac
June 19th, 2012
11:32 am
The Yankees are in a different hemisphere from our beloved Braves. No reason for optimism in 2012 after watching the difference between a well oiled machine and a group of bit players and young studs. Time to move forward with the youth movement and hope for good results down the road. Do not trade any quality youth for another washed up has been that might win a few games now. Trade all of our washed up has beens for quality youth and that include Prado and McCann. Lets go young and see if we can be good in two years or so.
Turtsnap
June 19th, 2012
11:33 am
I said before, I’ll say again – and DOB sorta touched on it earlier in his reply to a blogger….. this team is WAY to streaky to be taken seriously right now. I don’t know what it is, nobody does, but something just isn’t right! I do wonder if it has anything to do with the monumental collapse in September. Pretty much the same group of guys, and we know they didn’t handle the controversy too well September 2011!
Felix
June 19th, 2012
11:34 am
This team couldn’t hit water if it fell out of a boat. Against the Yankees the Braves are really exposed, especially the offense. Offensively there is simply no comparison between the two teams.
Way to build a team Wren!
When in the world is JS going to finally rid of us the incompetent Frank Wren.
Tumbledown
June 19th, 2012
11:34 am
Way to keep truckin Whiskey River!! I am supposed to call you now after nine more games where we will undoubtedly see the Braves at the bottom. Whether or not they are at the bottom, it is time for drastic changes. I would rather the team become an energetic celler dweller than this continuous pile of disappointment where every year seemingly hopes get dashed late in the season.
Fire FG. Get rid of Wren. Chipper, while a hall of famer, needs to retire. McCann must be traded. Would love to keep Bourn, but might be able to get some prospects back for him in a trade. Trade Huddy to a winner for a prospect or two.
The Braves cannot possibly win a Worlds Series with this current group. Let’s take some steps back and retool, so that hopefully in the future a World Series victory may be possible.
jim
June 19th, 2012
11:37 am
Minor “unraveled” in the fifth, but Fredi never sent the pitching coach out for a visit, and Minor got a ground ball from Jeter that went through the infield and drove in two runs. A three run inning against that lineup is not good, but not something that a lot of other better pitchers haven’t experienced. The quotes afterward were telling — Had that been Hudson instead of Minor, Fredi would have emphasized the ground ball and attributed the reversal of fortune to bad luck. When Hudson gave up the two-run homer to Granderson immediately after the Braves had grabbed a 2-1 lead in the previous series, there was no mention of needing to have a shut down inning then like there had been earlier in the season about Delgado. He seems to be able to point out the shortcomings of his young players, but not to notice the same problems when its his veterans that come up short.
Don
June 19th, 2012
11:41 am
Why can’t you FACE REALITY.
There is ABSOLUTELY – NO POSSIBLE WAY – FOR THE BRAVES TO WIN.
As long as they CONTINUE with the situation they have had FOR THE LAST 6 OR 7 YEARS (since Leo left) where almost EVERY STARTING PITCHER ENDS UP BEING INJURED.
This is ABSURD.
darrell starks
June 19th, 2012
11:43 am
PITCHER STARTER
1. HANSON
2. HUDSON
3. DELGADO
4. MINOR
5. TEHERAN
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
11:43 am
@Tumbledown I agree and have really a lot on my mind other than baseball, but thank you for understanding. Like I said, I agree but I dont think anything will work until they change management including Chipper who thinks he is the BOSS.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
11:46 am
Going to cemetery. Be back later.
darrell starks
June 19th, 2012
11:48 am
BULLPEN
1. KIMBREL
2. O’FLAHERTY
3. VENTERS
4. MEDLEN
5. MARTINEZ
6. J J Move him to the bullpen
7. CHAD DURBIN
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jim
June 19th, 2012
11:51 am
1991 did not happen without 1989-90. The Braves rebuilt after the Murphy-Horner years, even trading a fading Brave legend, Dale Murphy, to get younger. The young pitchers, Glavine, Smoltz, and Avery had a rough baptism to the major leagues, and Gant had to be sent down to AAA to convert from 2B to LF, but by 1991, the team was ready to win and the addition of a few mid-level free agents (Pendleton was coming off a down season) turned the franchise around. The addition of one key acquisition at the trade deadline (Alejandro Pena) gave the team the additional piece needed to almost go all the way. This year is 1988-89 all over again. We need to completely rebuild the team around the young players Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Delgado, and Kimbrel in particular. McCann, Uggla, Hudson, and Bourn all have more current value than Murphy did by 1989.
darrell starks
June 19th, 2012
11:53 am
BATTING LINEUP
1. BOURN CF
2. SIMMONS SS Braves next super star
3. PRADO LF
4. HEYWARD RF
5. UGGLA 2B
6. FREEMAN 1B
7. CHIPPER 3B
8. MCCANN CATCHER
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 19th, 2012
11:55 am
Freddie need make some changes.
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Truth....
June 19th, 2012
11:57 am
Simmons? He’s batting 140 right? Heck Jeff Blouser could do this….
Glenda
June 19th, 2012
12:11 pm
I’ve been watching/listening to the Braves since the 70’s. Daddy loved them. I learned to love them. We were there when there was only a handful of people in the stands. But in those days the Braves played with heart. The Braves of today are missing that. They are out-matched, out-played, out-pitched, out-hit, and out-managed. There’s only a couple of players on todays team that are giving 100%. Chipper must have his head in his divorce papers cause he sure plays like it. The others have a non-chalent attitude as if they already know the writing on the wall and it’s not pretty. This is a business and when business goes south you must look to the CEO’s, managers, team leaders, not just the players themselves. Yeah, my daddy is hopping mad in his grave right about now. Time to make changes or fans like me will cease to exist.
Goliath
June 19th, 2012
12:12 pm
The team will come out of it when they play lesser opponents. They have NO CHANCE against New York. The Braves are a team that is near the bottom in talent and can only win against bottom feeders.
jim
June 19th, 2012
12:15 pm
The Braves’ inability to overcome injuries, is a reflection on their bench. Hinske tailed off badly at the end of last year and was a big contributor to their collapse. He should not have been resigned, and has done practically noting this year. Wilson also adds noting to the team. Pastornicky + Wilson != 1 MLB SS. (Did the Braves talent evaluators think they would?) Francisco = 0 (Hoover might actually be contributing something to our pen right now). Diaz gets a lot of abuse on this blog, but he is actually the best player on our bench right now. He wouldn’;t be so bad if he weren’t the best player on our bench right now. The team is unable to overcome injuries because it lacks depth and because there is little or no help available in AAA.
jim
June 19th, 2012
12:29 pm
The Braves don’t lack heart or hustle. They don’t have the talent of a team like the Yankees. The Braves made several highlight reel plays in the field against the O’s. Uggla busts his rear on the bases and in the field. Heyward runs hard on every ball he hits and on the bases. Prado is if anything, too intense. Simmons is very smooth, but plays the game the right way. It is only Chipper Jones who looks like a very old 40-year old out there. He, unfortunately, defines the Braves far more than he is capable of being right now.
P Rose
June 19th, 2012
12:35 pm
Poor, sad Chipper is the heart of this team. The team needs a heart transplant. But no hearts available. Next year Chipper’s team will finally die. R.I.P. in 2013 we’ll see a rebirth of the Braves. They might be better. They might be worse. But at least they’ll be different. As Bill Murray said in Groundhog Day, anything different is good.
ncbravesfan
June 19th, 2012
12:50 pm
“The team will come out of it when they play lesser opponents.”
1-2 vs the last place Cubs
1-2 vs the last place Phils
You were saying?
This team is not coming out of anything, except contention.
Here’s to a better 2013.
Lil' Barry Bailout
June 19th, 2012
12:54 pm
Every time I think about Mark Bradley bragging on the Braves “big arms” I just laugh myself silly.
It’s the same bill of goods the Braves sell us every year.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
12:59 pm
I’m back. Its ben 7 yrs. I dont know why it effects me so much now unless this is the 1st yr sober. Anyway I really don’t think that management is going to do anything with this team. So I guess we are just going to have to settle for a bargain basement until we get rid of our BOSS-Chipper.
Tomahawk Chops: Daily Atlanta Braves News Clippings For Tuesday, June 19th | MLB.Fans-Talk.com
June 19th, 2012
1:01 pm
[...] Braves quotes after Monday loss to Yankees | Atlanta BravesFredi Gonzalez, What’s the key to getting Minor through second, third time through lineup? “Keep running him out there. We ran him back out there in the sixth just to get him through that stuff. We see it a lot with pitchers. He’s plenty good enough to get through that lineup. We’ve seen it in spurts, now we’ve got to get him to rattle off four or five starts in a row to get him through that stuff.” [...]
jim
June 19th, 2012
1:12 pm
That part of Fredi’s comments really were telling. It’s all about development, not trying to win the game at hand. If so, then go the full route and remake the cast of the team.
kwajbraves
June 19th, 2012
1:16 pm
We are going to win again but not this week…
BFF
June 19th, 2012
1:19 pm
The real sad thing about the Braves is that after going to the AAA game this weekend it was evident that that team has no one close to major league ready. If our only hope is at the AA level and lower the Braves are in trouble. Thanks Wren!!!!
kwajbraves
June 19th, 2012
1:25 pm
Time to be sellers and restock our minor league system that is bare to the bone in position players. Theree too many holes in this team to be solved in a midseason trade. I agreed with BFF that we have nobody worthy to be promoted and help the team now.
Can Of Corn
June 19th, 2012
1:27 pm
TRADES WON’T HELP
No trade will help the Braves with Fredi still “functioning” as manager.
kwajbraves
June 19th, 2012
1:34 pm
No trade will help the Braves with Fredi still “functioning” as manager.
I got the feeling that Fredo will not be back in 2013. FW already conceded this season with his inertia during the offseason. Fire sale is on the horizon. Anybody who wants a all stick, no defense catcher suitable for the AL call now.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
1:38 pm
I am going to put what I think might be a solution. I want opinions. OK Fire FW Replace with Bobby Cox. Fire FG Replace with Javy Lopez. FireMcDowell Replace with Mazzone. Fire Walker replace with Pendleton. Players: Send Chipper to House. Keep Prado Freeman Heyward and Simmons. Trade or release everyone else. Pitching_ Keep Hanson. Beachy, Delgado. Teheran. Venters. Kimbrell. Trade or release rest. START OVER WITH YOUTH.
kwajbraves
June 19th, 2012
1:43 pm
Keep Hanson
Hanson and McCann will be gone by the end of this season. We just can’t afford them. Uggla will be difficult to move with his contract and Bourne will bolt as soon as the season is over. He wants to play with the Nats.
mediocrity continues...
June 19th, 2012
1:47 pm
Just sitting here tippin’ my cap. Ya just gotta TIP YOUR CAP to that team over there.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
1:51 pm
I sad nothing about keeping Mccann,or Bourne. Dont need Uggla. Too many Errors and strikeouts. Get rid of Mccann and Bourn, and Bossman ,you can afford Hanson.
Ralph
June 19th, 2012
1:52 pm
Resigh Bourn, rebuild around him, Prado, Simmons, Freeman Heyward, Delgado, Teheran, Medlen and Kimbrell, everybody should go. There you have 3/4 of an infield and 2/3 of an outfield, a damm good base to start from.
bulldogbubba
June 19th, 2012
1:57 pm
Sonny Clusters should get the first”cap-tipping” bobblehead.He loves Fredi’s cap – tipping.
Ralph
June 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
If we don’t resign Bourn it won’t be the end of the world, by keeping him it would cost us 12-14 million a year, i’m sure there is a center fielder somewhere out there for that money. I would prefer to keep him because we have waited so long for a good CF that can lead off.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
I Respect that opinion Ralph. No more comment.
mediocrity continues...
June 19th, 2012
2:07 pm
I just tipped my cap again, JS should sign me to be the skipper. I also promise to chew umps out regarding crap calls and get tossed from a game a month. Deal? I can’t do any worse than what we have now….
Tumbledown
June 19th, 2012
2:21 pm
I agree with most of Whiskey River’s ideas. I would like, however, a complete separation from the Bobby Cox era. FG, McDowell, Pendleton, etc. need to go. We need new guys with new ideas and a fresh outlook. With Chipper and hopefully McCann gone, there will be almost a complete separation from the postseason failures and late season disappointsment from the past.
I believe we should try to trade Bourne, McCann, Uggla, and Hudson for prospects. Hopefully, those guys can go to teams with realistic chances to win a title this year. It is time to start a youth movement led by Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Tehran, Kimbrel, and Hanson. Yes, the Braves may disappear from playoff contention for a year or maybe several years. Maybe, all the young players plus a few veterans including Prado and other trades may combine to lead the Braves to success sooner rather than later. We just need some different enery around the organization. The risk of taking some backward steps may lead to more forward steps in the future. Maybe it won’t. Let’s give it a try because this team just does not have it mentally to compete for a World Series right now. The Yankees are exposing that right now.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
I respect your opinion. No more comment.
TPic
June 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
While it may be true that ownership doesn’t care about winning (and they won’t so long as the team is profitable) then you will continue to have divergent goals in the organization. They (the owners) will hire company men (Gonzalez, Wren) who will make do with the resources they are given. I don’t want to hear about the limited payroll; not when it has been so grossly mismanaged. Better use and distribution of payroll (see Jones, C., Lowe, D., et al) would make this roster more flexible and easier to work with. That said, this team underperforms because of the manager on the field. It happened with his predecessor and it continues now. There have been at least a half dozen times (including a couple in the last week) where the manager has LOST a game – I am still looking for cases where his influence helped the team win a game. All you really need to know is Jack Wilson got to the plate the other night while three LF power hitters (ok, two) never got into the game. A manager’s sole job is to create opportunities (the players still must perform) for his team. When he doesn’t by making the wrong choices or making them at the wrong times, the team suffers. I don’t ever recall a manager being this inept on such a consistent basis. Even in victories his decisions are rightfully questioned.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
@Tpic See my opinion above
DawgDad
June 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
Braves could have Beltran in left field (and Prado at third every day) for what they pay Chipper. $10 million should buy a reliable veteran starter, not a ticket out of town for D. Lowe. Repeating an earlier post, THOSE are the mistakes killing this team right now.
TPic
June 19th, 2012
2:56 pm
Whiskey River, I did but I’m not sure what you mean by it. Are you saying you have a different viewpoint?
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
No I was just giving you my opinion on FG . Dump him.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
@Tpic Can’t do anything until you get rid of the BOSS.
gregpatrick
June 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Several people commented on here about Gonzalez and McDowell last night. I was SCREAMING at my television for one of those overly laid back pine riders to go to the mound to calm Minor down after A-Rod got the 0-2 hit. It clearly rattled Minor. Just go out there and tell him a joke or something and let him know he can get through this inning because he has great stuff. Minor will be fine once his confidence level gets to the point when he believes can get through a tough inning. That lack of coaching cost us the momentum and the game.
Also, please explain why Ross did not bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd and nobody out. Just poor thought processes all around.
NickB
June 19th, 2012
3:50 pm
you guys are idiots….. and fair weather cry babies…
you don’t fire sale your team and trade away everybody, that’s stupid, if you trade Mac and Uggla and Bourn and Hudson, you are dooming the team for 4 to 5 years of mediocrity. We may not be the Yankees but we don’t have a payroll so low we have to move all our veterans….
Not to mention, who plays 2nd base? Who plays CF? Who catches? We have no catcher in the minors ready yet. Gattis is a butcher and Bethancourt isn’t ready to hit ML pitching yet.
Panicky stupid moves, thank god you people aren’t our GM…..
NickB
June 19th, 2012
3:53 pm
I am telling you right now Bourn will cost 6 years $90 mill +. That is an overpay and NOT what the team needs to be doing. You do not want a 36 year old player who can barely play CF anymore cuz he’s lost a step making $15 mill a year. His entire game is based on speed, and by the last 2 years of a 6 yr deal, he won’t be the same player anymore.
No thank you.
TPic
June 19th, 2012
3:53 pm
Whisket River, Ok – I thought that was your mindset. You know, so much can get lost in translation, much like Fredi Cox’s ability to manage in the majors after being such an intuitive, instinctive and smart ballplayer. What? he never played? Oh.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
3:56 pm
At least we get people that can hit instead of deadbeats just hanging around fot their paychexcks. We WANT SOME RUNS, What do you want? Answer a last place LITTLE LEAGUE TEAm. No thank you. We want production.
Barbara
June 19th, 2012
4:12 pm
HI again, good vents I sure wish the right people would read these like the manager, pitching coach and President of the Braves would read these. I did not want Fredi to manage Atlanta from the very beginning and we have some very good young pitchers but a lousy pitching coach. We need someone back like Rocky who gives a darn about the young kids pitching. We gave us a lot for Uggla a lot more than he is worth. Infanti is a much better hitter and 2d baseman than Uggla will ever be. My team is a much better team than what they are showing they need better management from the top to bottom. So get with it Braves Management
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
@Barbara Never talked to you before. If you are new, welcome aboard. You are absolutely right on your opinion. I Respect that. Not saying I agree,but respect that.
NickB
June 19th, 2012
4:40 pm
Ummm Barbara, you might wanna check the stats for Uggla this year, he’s been the 2nd best 2B in MLB this year after Cano.
The offense will sort itself out. This is one of the youngest teams in the league and young teams are streaky. The fact that our starting pitching is near the top for June is at least a promising sign.
The Truth....
June 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
Hey Whiskey~ Booby Cox as GM??….You must be drinking too much whiskey! All that talent Booby had and only one WS….That is what is wrong with this oranization…too much Booby Cox like teams! Sitting and waiting for the 3-run homer and depending on all that GREAT pitching…where has that got ya??? One WS title in what 50 years?? TIME FOR CHANGE OF THE MIND!!!! WAKE UP ATLANTA!!!
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
When they get rid of the Boss they will be OK, Until then they are doomed. We don’t need a manager we have the Boss.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
@The Truth Not drinking Whiskey. Wish I could. Just gave my opinion. If you have someone better, go for it. I would like to hear your opinion. We have to do something. All suggestions welcome.
The Truth....
June 19th, 2012
4:54 pm
EVERY PLAYER IS TRADE BAIT! EVERYONE! What’s the worst that can happen? You might still end up with a cruddy team….So its a push if it doesn’t work out….Staying pat is not the answer like we did this off season….Too many comfortable players on this soft team..should change the name to the ATLANTA SOFTIES….Yep.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
5:01 pm
OK but who is going to manage and GM. I respect your opinion but no further comment.
Flyin South
June 19th, 2012
5:54 pm
1. Sit Chippers ass on the bench and bring Constanza UP. 2. Stop ‘running the kid out there’ and send Minor to AAA ‘to work on “stuff” – Bring your ALLSTAR back (after allowing him only 4 starts) and BACK HIS ASS UP with your ATTITUDE. 3. Sit Chippers ass on the bench and STOP bouncing Martin Prado all over the field and back. 4: Stop ASSUMING EVERYTHING is a damn BONE SPUR and ORDER a MRI on your TOP PITCHER at the FIRST SIGN of A PROBLEM. RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS – RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS – RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS (and) MAYBE their MORALE and CONFIDENCE will RETURN.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
6:00 pm
@Flyin South. Completely agee. Only problem Chipper. He is the boss, he is not going to let any of that happen because then he couldnt get his glory.
Whiskey River
June 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
More opinions tomorrow. See you soon. Have a good nite. Got to go .Good nite to all.
6/19 News, Links, Discussion: Braves-Yankees, Beachy’s Partial Tear, Livan Released | MLB.Fans-Talk.com
June 20th, 2012
7:24 am
[...] AJC quotes following Monday’s loss. Fredi Gonzalez on Mike Minor: “Keep running him out there. We ran him back out there in the sixth just to get him through that stuff. We see it a lot with pitchers. He’s plenty good enough to get through that lineup. We’ve seen it in spurts, now we’ve got to get him to rattle off four or five starts in a row to get him through that stuff.” [...]
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